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(Above the Law)   Epic response to letter full of legalese from lawyer who's apparently sick of this shiat   (abovethelaw.com) divider line 172
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36927 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 4:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-18 12:27:38 PM
I have tears in my eyes, it's so beautiful.
 
2013-06-18 12:28:26 PM
farkin' lawyers, man.
It was kinda funny though.
 
2013-06-18 12:28:43 PM
The cease and desist letter was in pretty plain language. Domain camping isn't cool.

/this Freivald guy sounds like an asshole.
 
2013-06-18 12:48:39 PM
Huh, it's actually the writer of the response letter who comes off as rather an asshole bully.
 
2013-06-18 01:15:24 PM

kxs401: Huh, it's actually the writer of the response letter who comes off as rather an asshole bully.


At least Freivald hired a bigger asshole to smack down the lesser asshole.
 
2013-06-18 02:12:55 PM

vudutek: kxs401: Huh, it's actually the writer of the response letter who comes off as rather an asshole bully.

At least Freivald hired a bigger asshole to smack down the lesser asshole.


Which is precisely what you want in a lawyer.  Maybe it's a sad state of affairs, but it's absolutely true.  My divorce attorney was a sleazy despicable son of a biatch, but I'm damned glad he was MY sleazeball.
 
2013-06-18 03:00:29 PM

nekom: Which is precisely what you want in a lawyer.


You want your broker to look poor and your lawyer to look rich, or something.
 
2013-06-18 03:11:10 PM

Voiceofreason01: The cease and desist letter was in pretty plain language. Domain camping isn't cool.

/this Freivald guy sounds like an asshole.


I think the story behind this is that some member(s) of this board has a personal vendetta against Frievald and sent this to harass him. I'm not so sure he's domain camping, either; for FSM's sake, the city hasn't even put up a website at westorange.gov and westorange.com comes up blank for me.

/too lazy to do a whois
 
2013-06-18 03:34:27 PM

vudutek: kxs401: Huh, it's actually the writer of the response letter who comes off as rather an asshole bully.

At least Freivald hired a bigger asshole to smack down the lesser asshole.


And that's what you want in a lawyer.
 
2013-06-18 03:49:06 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: vudutek: kxs401: Huh, it's actually the writer of the response letter who comes off as rather an asshole bully.

At least Freivald hired a bigger asshole to smack down the lesser asshole.

And that's what you want in a lawyer.


As one of the assholes who does this kind of thing, 4ts says the second lawyer Kaplitt was right that the domain name claim is weak, but the letter is unprofessional. For example, a footnote referring to a personal property tax issue the lawyer has with the municipality, really?  The fact that he is doing the case pro bono does not excuse the arrogance.  Just telling the other side that you have lawyered up is usually enough to get them to back off to some degree.
 
2013-06-18 04:02:14 PM
It's a little funny, but not very professional from what very little I know of this thing.
It reads like an overly defensive post on an internet message board, and that's not really a good thing.
 
2013-06-18 04:18:13 PM
The fact that lawyers, working for teh government no less, are legally allowed to threaten civilians like that in the first place is the real shame of our modern legal system.
 
2013-06-18 04:23:01 PM
4tehsnowflakes
As one of the assholes who does this kind of thing, 4ts says the second lawyer Kaplitt was right that the domain name claim is weak, but the letter is unprofessional. For example, a footnote referring to a personal property tax issue the lawyer has with the municipality, really? The fact that he is doing the case pro bono does not excuse the arrogance. Just telling the other side that you have lawyered up is usually enough to get them to back off to some degree.


Having read a bit across the forums where they have the biatchfight in public, it's pretty obvious that there's a lot more going on and I would say the tone of the letter fit the rest of the discussion.

Apparently the guy who got the c&d is also active in local politics and one of the responses he got when he asked the major(?) about who actually was responsible for sending the c&d instead of just talking to him, was that it was done on the request of the members of some PR(?) commission - which the cease&desisted guy himself happens to be a member of. So that was either BS or it was done not as a request of that body but some random dude(s) sitting on it.
Then it went to "maybe it was some intern at the lawyer's office acting on his own".
It reads a lot like dirty small town politics and someone being caught and called out for abusing their power.
http://localforums.org/westorange/forum/index.php?topic=86.0
 
2013-06-18 04:33:18 PM

Lost Thought 00: The fact that lawyers, working for teh government no less, are legally allowed to threaten civilians like that in the first place is the real shame of our modern legal system.


Abloo bloo bloo gummint agents get to send mean letters.
 
2013-06-18 04:35:24 PM
Can someone post the response letter? I can't get to it on the farking Army network for some reason. I can get to the link, but I can't get to the actual response.
 
2013-06-18 04:36:28 PM
I think he said 'pro bono' when he meant to say 'pro se'.  Rookie mistake.
 
2013-06-18 04:37:11 PM
I liked that one, but here is one of my all time favorites:

A letter to Art Modell's attorney
img.fark.net

And the response
img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 04:39:43 PM
I would LOVE to see the snark-off continue. Is there any way we can bait the original lawyer to respond?
 
2013-06-18 04:39:47 PM

show me: Voiceofreason01: The cease and desist letter was in pretty plain language. Domain camping isn't cool.

/this Freivald guy sounds like an asshole.

I think the story behind this is that some member(s) of this board has a personal vendetta against Frievald and sent this to harass him. I'm not so sure he's domain camping, either; for FSM's sake, the city hasn't even put up a website at westorange.gov and westorange.com comes up blank for me.

/too lazy to do a whois


The cease and desist letter referenced some other document so it was pretty clear we weren't getting the whole story. I think the safest assumption here is that something really dumb and petty is going on and everyone involved is a huge asshole.
 
2013-06-18 04:42:14 PM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: Lost Thought 00: The fact that lawyers, working for teh government no less, are legally allowed to threaten civilians like that in the first place is the real shame of our modern legal system.

Abloo bloo bloo gummint agents get to send mean letters.


Statists humor
Only they get it
 
2013-06-18 04:42:18 PM
Small town politics is really fun.
 
2013-06-18 04:42:20 PM

kxs401: Huh, it's actually the writer of the response letter who comes off as rather an asshole bully.


Using that logic I guess we bullied poor Hitler.
 
2013-06-18 04:42:28 PM
www.allfordmustangs.com
 
2013-06-18 04:44:24 PM
Now I just want to watch funny attorney smackdowns.
 
2013-06-18 04:44:43 PM

LonMead: I liked that one, but here is one of my all time favorites:

A letter to Art Modell's attorney
[img.fark.net image 500x511]

And the response
[img.fark.net image 640x612]


I bet they'd stop laughing when they get hit with a lawsuit. Regardless of whatever disclaimers they put on the ticket, you can still sue a sports team if you get hurt at their stadium.
 
2013-06-18 04:44:49 PM

MNguy: I think he said 'pro bono' when he meant to say 'pro se'.  Rookie mistake.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-18 04:45:08 PM
For me the gold standard for these letters is this:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/blue-jeans-strikes-bac k
 
2013-06-18 04:46:45 PM
Groucho Marx did it first.
 
2013-06-18 04:47:54 PM
When the mere threat of legal action is enough to make a huge number of people back down due to fear of high legal costs pro-bono attorneys talking smack to assholes who send groundless C&D letters is just fine with me.
 
2013-06-18 04:48:27 PM
There was this guy who stole my gal and I stole her back so he used his lawyer buddy to harass us. After one letter, I spelled out why he had no case, but offered him a swift kick in the ass as a good faith settlement. It felt good to send that letter and to think about his lawyer showing it to him.
 
2013-06-18 04:48:42 PM
Well said on the response. But, in fairness, that's among the least legalese legal letters (fake tm) I've ever seen (even with the "confusingly" part)
 
2013-06-18 04:49:15 PM

Voiceofreason01: Domain camping isn't cool.


You don't seem to know what 'domain camping' is so I'll just point out that this particular instance isn't an example of it.
 
2013-06-18 04:49:28 PM

Voiceofreason01: The cease and desist letter was in pretty plain language. Domain camping isn't cool.

/this Freivald guy sounds like an asshole.


I think for geographical names they're pretty well fair game.  Don't know for absolutely certainty though.  Better ask a lawyer.
 
2013-06-18 04:51:07 PM
A lawyer in a small town will make a decent living.

Two lawyers in a small town will both make a very good living.
 
2013-06-18 04:52:06 PM

Voiceofreason01: The cease and desist letter was in pretty plain language. Domain camping isn't cool.

/this Freivald guy sounds like an asshole.


Actually no. The C&D letter was comically vague. And Freivald was using the domain he bought, albeit in his amateurish way.

And as Kaplitt strongly hinted, Trenk, the West Orange lawyer, was either breaking the law or getting dangerously close to breaking the law with that C&D. If Freivald had wanted to, he and Kaplitt could have made Trenk's life pure hell. But they let him off with a warning. Doesn't sound all that assholish to me.
 
2013-06-18 04:53:11 PM
Aren't cease and desist letters a standard CYA when you notice somebody using your trademarked material, even though you don't intend to really enforce it at that time?  You don't want to be accused of giving tacit approval down the road if things get weird?  Not that this was the case here - I'm just asking for info.

And what was the deal with the property taxes?  Did he sell a property and then get billed for the rest of the year's taxes or something?  Or did he catch the town overbilling, and he's threatening to let the cat out of the bag?
 
2013-06-18 04:54:01 PM

Egoy3k: When the mere threat of legal action is enough to make a huge number of people back down due to fear of high legal costs, pro-bono attorneys talking smack to assholes who send groundless C&D letters is just fine with me.


I work in real estate and building management and get "threatened" with legal action all the mother farking time. I have a lawyer on retainer (just in case) but once I explain to the threatening lawyer that I'm not scared, know real estate law, and have a lawyer on retainer should I need it, they always back down. The lawyer's career is that of dick wagging. Once they realize I'm not a farking idiot in this business they put their tails between their legs and run.
 
2013-06-18 04:55:16 PM

Somaticasual: Well said on the response. But, in fairness, that's among the least legalese legal letters (fake tm) I've ever seen (even with the "confusingly" part)


Yeah I was thinking that too. I can actually understand what he is saying!!! Some lawyers.... oooof.... they just love to hear themselves speak (or write).
 
2013-06-18 04:55:35 PM

Dear Jerk: There was this guy who stole my gal and I stole her back


Why would you want such a disloyal tramp back?
 
2013-06-18 04:56:11 PM
I'm confusted!
 
2013-06-18 04:56:27 PM

show me: Voiceofreason01: The cease and desist letter was in pretty plain language. Domain camping isn't cool.

/this Freivald guy sounds like an asshole.

I think the story behind this is that some member(s) of this board has a personal vendetta against Frievald and sent this to harass him. I'm not so sure he's domain camping, either; for FSM's sake, the city hasn't even put up a website at westorange.gov and westorange.com comes up blank for me.

/too lazy to do a whois


LOL.
So the Cleveland Plain Dealer has to give up cleveland.com?  And whatever travel agency that owns newyork.com has to give that up too?

The law is clearly on this guy's side and his lawyer is both smart and funny.  And he's doing it pro bono.
 
2013-06-18 04:57:49 PM

jst3p: Dear Jerk: There was this guy who stole my gal and I stole her back

Why would you want such a disloyal tramp back?


I think I see what you missed there.
 
2013-06-18 04:57:50 PM

Shazam999: Voiceofreason01: The cease and desist letter was in pretty plain language. Domain camping isn't cool.

/this Freivald guy sounds like an asshole.

I think for geographical names they're pretty well fair game.  Don't know for absolutely certainty though.  Better ask a lawyer.


WHOIS for westorange.com just shows some schmoe resident with the domain registered to his two-bit PC repair business.  (Ha!  Two-bit PC!  I kill me!)
 
2013-06-18 04:58:52 PM

4tehsnowflakes: Just telling the other side that you have lawyered up is usually enough to get them to back off to some degree.


Even if you don't have a lawyer, usually knowing your rights and demonstrating that you're willing to use them scares a lot of people off.  See debt collectors.
 
2013-06-18 04:59:00 PM

gingerjet: Voiceofreason01: Domain camping isn't cool.

You don't seem to know what 'domain camping' is so I'll just point out that this particular instance isn't an example of it.


This.

Which would have been my reply, if I'd been the attorney.
 
2013-06-18 04:59:00 PM

Somaticasual: Well said on the response. But, in fairness, that's among the least legalese legal letters (fake tm) I've ever seen (even with the "confusingly" part)


According to urban dictionary, that wealth of knowledge, confustingly is a portmanteau of confusingly and frustratingly, which I think is just awesome and will use constantly now.
 
2013-06-18 04:59:24 PM
Pro bono lawyer, proving that people do their best work and have the most fun when they're working for free.

So eliminate the minimum wage.
 
2013-06-18 05:00:16 PM

The Voice of Doom: 4tehsnowflakes

Having read a bit across the forums where they have the biatchfight in public, it's pretty obvious that there's a lot more going on and I would say the tone of the letter fit the rest of the discussion.

Then it went to "maybe it was some intern at the lawyer's office acting on his own".
It reads a lot like dirty small town politics and someone being caught and called out for abusing their power.
http://localforums.org/westorange/forum/index.php?topic=86.0


I looked at this.  You can see the former mayor intervening as a proxy, presumably, for the current administration there, and he is backing off, saying they can work it out.  I still say, no matter how much bitterness there is between the clients, the lawyer should maintain a professional tone; the response to demand letter will likely be an exhibit before the court if a case is filed and proceeds, and most judges will not be amused by this kind of thing.
 
2013-06-18 05:00:28 PM

Lollipop165: Egoy3k: When the mere threat of legal action is enough to make a huge number of people back down due to fear of high legal costs, pro-bono attorneys talking smack to assholes who send groundless C&D letters is just fine with me.

I work in real estate and building management and get "threatened" with legal action all the mother farking time. I have a lawyer on retainer (just in case) but once I explain to the threatening lawyer that I'm not scared, know real estate law, and have a lawyer on retainer should I need it, they always back down. The lawyer's career is that of dick wagging. Once they realize I'm not a farking idiot in this business they put their tails between their legs and run.


I own a lot of property, including rentals, and I have legal threats aimed at me all the time. Luckily for me, a friend of the family is also my attorney of record. He's one of those small-town, mild-mannered types. Church deacon. Family man. And also a fearless barracuda who knows state property law, especially titles and deeds, forward and backward. I've actually seen people in the tax office grow pale when I mentioned his name during a discussion over land-use regulations, and they soon restored the agricultural tax value to some land they had mysteriously re-valued as residential.

His yearly fee is one of the few checks I write with a smile.
 
2013-06-18 05:00:51 PM
Not to many real lawyers do "pro bono" work for some domain squatter.
What's the real story here?
 
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