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(Bloomberg)   Good news: Your government job in an urban shiathole comes with a pension that you'll someday use to retire somewhere far away. Bad news: Your pension is being raided to keep the urban shiathole afloat   (bloomberg.com) divider line 114
    More: Scary, stimulus plan, Detroit, unsecured debt, Stockton, emergency managers, public sector, Vallejo, pensions  
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6548 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 11:27 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-18 12:10:38 PM  

KrispyKritter: Hopefully she'll go first (the sooner the better)


I hear good things about cigarettes.
 
2013-06-18 12:11:08 PM  

wumpus: I hate Rick Snyder.


What did Snyder have to do with the mess in Detroit?  All he did was call a corrupt city and it's failing leadership to the carpet.  Detroit's problems existed looooooooooong before Snyder was voted in.  At the end of it all, you have a geographically large city that has a dwindling population.  The existing tax base can't support the infrastructure and services needed to maintain the entire city at its current size.  They need to consolidate everybody in towards the city center, raze everything on the outskirts, and either sell the land or make a giant farm / park.  The City of Detroit is not sustainable in its current state.

/or nuke it from orbit
 
2013-06-18 12:13:16 PM  
They should force a bankrupcty.
 
2013-06-18 12:13:24 PM  
fta:  "You have people paying a penalty for something they are not responsible for."

yeah, just like people are being asked to pay more and more taxes.

Your pension is an asset and you will be asked to give up part of it. Get over it.
 
2013-06-18 12:15:21 PM  
I'm baffled by the concept of a pension.

My mom gets 16 hundred bucks a month because my dad worked for a company for 30 years before he died.

It blows my mind. I mean, sure -- I'm glad Mom is getting the income...but why?
 
2013-06-18 12:17:18 PM  
Bond payments @ ten cents on the dollar?  That's a pretty big shiat sandwich right there.
 
2013-06-18 12:17:20 PM  

You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?


Vancouver, BC. (proper)
 
2013-06-18 12:17:26 PM  

You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?


San Francisco is doing fine.
non-white is the majority there.

same for San Jose
 
2013-06-18 12:18:46 PM  
Testiclaw:

We should pay public employees as little as possible, because it's our tax dollars and they should want to do the job because they feel strongly about public service -not because it pays well.

6/10. Almost plausible, till I realized you'd be proposing that government jobs go to incredibly stupid people or people who'd already won the lottery

In today's America, would you trust your life to anybody who's willing to fight fires for minimum wage?

"And they should buy their own hoses too!" says the Quaker neocon.
 
2013-06-18 12:21:02 PM  

Bender The Offender: Detroit has brought us both Eminem and Royce da 5'9,


How exactly did Detroit bring us those people?
What did Detroit do?
 
2013-06-18 12:21:41 PM  

The One True TheDavid: Almost plausible, till I realized you'd be proposing that government jobs go to incredibly stupid people or people who'd already won the lottery


Come on.... that's not true... I'd take a badge and a gun tomorrow for minimum wage if it were offered to me.

I'd make the difference back and then some just on the day-to-day corruption, let alone the craziness I would be involved in on my days off.
 
2013-06-18 12:22:03 PM  
Aww sweet, a Detroit thread!

images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-06-18 12:23:23 PM  

YixilTesiphon: You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?

Every big city in Texas?


You mean a state like Texas with low taxes and no unions run by a Republican governor?
 
2013-06-18 12:24:24 PM  
Taking a cue from the Federal Government I see.
farm7.staticflickr.com
 
2013-06-18 12:25:34 PM  

The One True TheDavid: Testiclaw:

We should pay public employees as little as possible, because it's our tax dollars and they should want to do the job because they feel strongly about public service -not because it pays well.

6/10. Almost plausible, till I realized you'd be proposing that government jobs go to incredibly stupid people or people who'd already won the lottery

In today's America, would you trust your life to anybody who's willing to fight fires for minimum wage?


Oh geez, there we go again.  Another stupid reply of "but....but...but...Firefighters!"
Protip, not every government worker provides the same value as a firefighter or policeman.
If you want to understand that, spend a day at with the DMV or CA's Acupuncture Board.
 
2013-06-18 12:26:32 PM  

Bender The Offender: Detroit has brought us both Eminem and Royce da 5'9, can we afford to allow the birthplace of such national treasures to fade away into financial insolvency?


ICP also hails from Motown!  It's a veritable Mecca of culture!
 
2013-06-18 12:34:53 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: In this day and age when we have proper 401Ks and 403Bs, there really isn't a need for pensions anymore. The retirement needs of employees are usually fulfilled through the judicious use of saving and investment and in catastrophic cases Social Security payments. Pensions are a holdover from the bad old days when one was expected to work until death or face the twilight years eating dry cat food and living in a hospice.

As a society we're beyond that now, and we really ought to make the tough decisions to eliminate such wasteful and redundant systems, especially when the money could be better used to pump life into a real economy.

I'm not saying we should eliminate the pensions retirees are enjoying today or eliminating the pension reserves employees today have saved up. But new employees should be outfitted with proper retirement accounts rather than ephemeral and easily raided pension accounts.


I think you've confused pension with private market-based retirement strategies. Again.
 
2013-06-18 12:36:37 PM  

Headso: In a country where 50% of the population thinks a race to the bottom is the best thing ever pensions for any middle class person are going to be a problem. Businesses will move away from areas that protect the middleclass in favor of states that want to bring back company stores.

slavery
 
2013-06-18 12:37:47 PM  

wumpus: I hate Rick Snyder.


So do I.  He has nothing to do with this though.

The emergency manager is a last ditch attempt to turn the city's finances into a controlled implosion.  The City Council and Mayors, with the exception of Archer, have run the city into the ground for 50 years.  It is systemically rotten and corrupt. Bing may have turned things around if he had the time and resources.  He doesn't.  The only alternative is to just let the power brokers loot the remaining structure of the city until it simply collapses.  We can try that, but everyone north of 8 Mile had better be well armed.  The impact would be a '67-style uprising.
 
2013-06-18 12:38:30 PM  

doczoidberg: I'm baffled by the concept of a pension.

My mom gets 16 hundred bucks a month because my dad worked for a company for 30 years before he died.

It blows my mind. I mean, sure -- I'm glad Mom is getting the income...but why?


Because that was the deal his employer made him in return for his loyalty; it's a form of deferred income that the government used to encourage.

Then their buddies on Wall Street realized that if you could get people out of pension funds and into plans such as 401k, they could make a lot more money, and if they were really good, leave the investors with zilch. It's too hard to do that with a pension plan, because those have actual funding and reporting requirements.
 
2013-06-18 12:39:48 PM  

wumpus: I hate Rick Snyder.


There are 99 reason to hate him, but this ain't one of them.
 
2013-06-18 12:40:19 PM  

doczoidberg: I'm baffled by the concept of a pension.

My mom gets 16 hundred bucks a month because my dad worked for a company for 30 years before he died.

It blows my mind. I mean, sure -- I'm glad Mom is getting the income...but why?



Um, because she's the widow of a guy who worked for a company for 30 years? Or maybe you'd
prefer she moved into your household and let you support her.


YixilTesiphon: You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?

Every big city in Texas?


I don't think he means "non-white," more like "not non-black."

One reason blacks are still at the bottom 150 years after the Civil War is every new "minority" is encouraged to look dowbn on them and help screw them over. It's the American Way. As in "I'd rather my son has a sex change than marry a colored woman."

Q: "Mom, would rather I marry a Jew, a Greek or a Vietnamese?"
A: "Which one is black?"

Of course it doesn't help that too many young blacks and hispanics don't see the "playa" and "gangsta" stereotypes for what they are and thereby play right into racism.
 
2013-06-18 12:42:24 PM  

doczoidberg: I'm baffled by the concept of a pension.

My mom gets 16 hundred bucks a month because my dad worked for a company for 30 years before he died.

It blows my mind. I mean, sure -- I'm glad Mom is getting the income...but why?


There's a pretty simple answer to your question: because the company your dad worked for saw value in encouraging employee retention. One way they could have done this was to pay him a higher salary, but they quickly realized that a pension system was much more effective at accomplishing this goal, not to mention cheaper.

It helps if you consider it for what it is: a benefit that your father earned in exchange for a lower salary, to ensure that he and your mother had an income stream after they retired. It's really not all that different than a 401(k) type retirement savings... the primary difference is that the company saved the money on behalf of your father instead of giving him the money and hoping he saved it himself.
 
2013-06-18 12:42:45 PM  

You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_Race_Riot
 
2013-06-18 12:44:16 PM  

OldManDownDRoad: I've got a friend who's retired here to NC on a Detroit city pension. I've wondered for years if it would eventually be cut. Looks like he may have to go back to work.


Back?
 
2013-06-18 12:45:02 PM  

The One True TheDavid: Testiclaw:

We should pay public employees as little as possible, because it's our tax dollars and they should want to do the job because they feel strongly about public service -not because it pays well.

6/10. Almost plausible, till I realized you'd be proposing that government jobs go to incredibly stupid people or people who'd already won the lottery

In today's America, would you trust your life to anybody who's willing to fight fires for minimum wage?

"And they should buy their own hoses too!" says the Quaker neocon.


So are you saying that volunteer fire fighters are crap?
 
2013-06-18 12:48:31 PM  

doczoidberg: I'm baffled by the concept of a pension.

My mom gets 16 hundred bucks a month because my dad worked for a company for 30 years before he died.

It blows my mind. I mean, sure -- I'm glad Mom is getting the income...but why?


Because that was one of the benefits offered by your father's company so that he would be willing to work for them and not someone else. Companies offer lots of different types of benefits to attract works.... some pay their employees really well, or offer bonuses, or stock options. Others offer great insurance, which really blows the mind of many foreigners because they don't understand why Americans trust their health care to their bosses. Different jobs, different benefits. The only problem I have with pensions is what another farker said above, they are too easy for a company to take away.
 
2013-06-18 12:50:36 PM  

Headso: meanmutton: Headso: In a country where 50% of the population thinks a race to the bottom is the best thing ever pensions for any middle class person are going to be a problem. Businesses will move away from areas that protect the middleclass in favor of states that want to bring back company stores.

You have no idea at all about Detroit and its problems, do you?

you have no idea that half the population celebrates race to the bottom policies, do you?


So obviously we should tax people that work in private sector, own homes, etc. more so we can continue allowing public employees to retire at 55 and draw $100K per year for the rest of their lives and get another job so they can draw those wages too?
 
2013-06-18 12:51:19 PM  

meanmutton: YixilTesiphon: You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?

Every big city in Texas?

Houston is 51% white, Dallas is 50.7% white, San Antonio is 72.6% white.  All per the 2010 US Census.


San Antonio 72% white?

LOL are those stats wrong.
 
2013-06-18 12:57:19 PM  

CowboyJeff: YixilTesiphon: You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?

Every big city in Texas?

You mean a state like Texas with low taxes and no unions run by a Republican governor?


All the cops and fireman are unionized in Texas.

Teachers are not unionized which is why education budgets keep getting cut every year along with Planned Parenthood funding.
 
2013-06-18 12:59:08 PM  

bopis: The One True TheDavid: Testiclaw:

We should pay public employees as little as possible, because it's our tax dollars and they should want to do the job because they feel strongly about public service -not because it pays well.

6/10. Almost plausible, till I realized you'd be proposing that government jobs go to incredibly stupid people or people who'd already won the lottery

In today's America, would you trust your life to anybody who's willing to fight fires for minimum wage?

"And they should buy their own hoses too!" says the Quaker neocon.

So are you saying that volunteer fire fighters are crap?


They pretty much completely failed in West Texas.
 
2013-06-18 01:05:27 PM  

The One True TheDavid: doczoidberg: I'm baffled by the concept of a pension.

My mom gets 16 hundred bucks a month because my dad worked for a company for 30 years before he died.

It blows my mind. I mean, sure -- I'm glad Mom is getting the income...but why?


Um, because she's the widow of a guy who worked for a company for 30 years? Or maybe you'd
prefer she moved into your household and let you support her.


Whoa, whoa. You misunderstand me, buddy.

First of all, she still works, and secondly, I said I'm GLAD she's getting it.

It's just such a wild and foreign concept to me, in this new environment; a thing left over from the golden age of capitalism, when it really worked.

All I've ever been offered is a 401K.
 
2013-06-18 01:14:25 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: doczoidberg: I'm baffled by the concept of a pension.

My mom gets 16 hundred bucks a month because my dad worked for a company for 30 years before he died.

It blows my mind. I mean, sure -- I'm glad Mom is getting the income...but why?

Because that was one of the benefits offered by your father's company so that he would be willing to work for them and not someone else. Companies offer lots of different types of benefits to attract works.... some pay their employees really well, or offer bonuses, or stock options. Others offer great insurance, which really blows the mind of many foreigners because they don't understand why Americans trust their health care to their bosses. Different jobs, different benefits. The only problem I have with pensions is what another farker said above, they are too easy for a company to take away.


All of you 401K guys, don't get too comfortable.

http://blogs.wsj.com/emergingeurope/2010/11/24/hungary-forces-privat e- pension-fund-members-back-to-state-scheme/

I'm not saying our government would do anything that blatant, right now...but I could easily see them slipping a 401K tax into a midnight appropriations bill...just a couple percent...then another percent the following year...
 
2013-06-18 01:30:03 PM  

Intrepid00: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_Race_Riot


It is absolutely sad that I have never heard of this before.  Never mentioned in school, ever.  That is horribly sad.
 
2013-06-18 01:32:03 PM  

PunGent: Arthur Jumbles: doczoidberg: I'm baffled by the concept of a pension.

My mom gets 16 hundred bucks a month because my dad worked for a company for 30 years before he died.

It blows my mind. I mean, sure -- I'm glad Mom is getting the income...but why?

Because that was one of the benefits offered by your father's company so that he would be willing to work for them and not someone else. Companies offer lots of different types of benefits to attract works.... some pay their employees really well, or offer bonuses, or stock options. Others offer great insurance, which really blows the mind of many foreigners because they don't understand why Americans trust their health care to their bosses. Different jobs, different benefits. The only problem I have with pensions is what another farker said above, they are too easy for a company to take away.

All of you 401K guys, don't get too comfortable.

http://blogs.wsj.com/emergingeurope/2010/11/24/hungary-forces-privat e- pension-fund-members-back-to-state-scheme/

I'm not saying our government would do anything that blatant, right now...but I could easily see them slipping a 401K tax into a midnight appropriations bill...just a couple percent...then another percent the following year...


Agreed, the government might take our 401ks, but pension funds seem far more certain to go under.
 
2013-06-18 01:35:45 PM  

MCStymie: Bender The Offender: Detroit has brought us both Eminem and Royce da 5'9, can we afford to allow the birthplace of such national treasures to fade away into financial insolvency?

ICP also hails from Motown!  It's a veritable Mecca of culture!


That you know that and that you said that... Both are justification to smack you.
 
2013-06-18 01:37:32 PM  

Fizpez: You know what happens when the project returns don't meet the expected outlays?  They change the contribution rates and retirement guidelines - but they do it on a timescale that allows people to make adjustments.


The problem is two-fold. First, there's an incentive to promise more than you can actually give, as that's someone else's problem. The thieving CEO may be long-gone by the time it's clear that not enough money was set aside. Second, what if the company goes bankrupt? Contribution rates don't matter if there's no one to contribute any more.

http://www.barlettandsteele.com/journalism/time_retirement_2.php

There's the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, basically government backing of pensions; it's running massive deficits.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-11-16/business/35505545_1_pb gc -premiums-pension-plans-troubled-pension-funds
 
2013-06-18 01:38:31 PM  

mcreadyblue: CowboyJeff: YixilTesiphon: You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?

Every big city in Texas?

You mean a state like Texas with low taxes and no unions run by a Republican governor?

All the cops and fireman are unionized in Texas.

Teachers are not unionized which is why education budgets keep getting cut every year along with Planned Parenthood funding.


We're going to unionize Planned Parenthood, now?
 
2013-06-18 01:39:00 PM  

bopis: The One True TheDavid: Testiclaw:

We should pay public employees as little as possible, because it's our tax dollars and they should want to do the job because they feel strongly about public service -not because it pays well.

6/10. Almost plausible, till I realized you'd be proposing that government jobs go to incredibly stupid people or people who'd already won the lottery

In today's America, would you trust your life to anybody who's willing to fight fires for minimum wage?

"And they should buy their own hoses too!" says the Quaker neocon.

So are you saying that volunteer fire fighters are crap?


They make more than minimum wage here.
 
2013-06-18 01:52:00 PM  

mcreadyblue: meanmutton: YixilTesiphon: You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?

Every big city in Texas?

Houston is 51% white, Dallas is 50.7% white, San Antonio is 72.6% white.  All per the 2010 US Census.

San Antonio 72% white?

LOL are those stats wrong.


Nope, they are right.  Hispanic is not a race for purposes of the census (it's listed as a seperate category altogether); most hispanics are classified as white.

That is, San Antonio is 72.6% white, but it's not 72.6% non-Hispanic white.
 
2013-06-18 01:55:05 PM  

Ninja Otter: Fizpez: You know what happens when the project returns don't meet the expected outlays?  They change the contribution rates and retirement guidelines - but they do it on a timescale that allows people to make adjustments.

The problem is two-fold. First, there's an incentive to promise more than you can actually give, as that's someone else's problem. The thieving CEO may be long-gone by the time it's clear that not enough money was set aside. Second, what if the company goes bankrupt? Contribution rates don't matter if there's no one to contribute any more.

http://www.barlettandsteele.com/journalism/time_retirement_2.php

There's the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, basically government backing of pensions; it's running massive deficits.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-11-16/business/35505545_1_pb gc -premiums-pension-plans-troubled-pension-funds


I firmly believe that will be the next big collapse in this country. The pension obligations will just collapse overnight(not literally mind you) and get dumped on the Fed. And well, then we're all going to be farked.
 
2013-06-18 01:57:58 PM  

Testiclaw: We should pay public employees as little as possible, because it's our tax dollars and they should want to do the job because they feel strongly about public service -not because it pays well.

Pensions? Private workers don't have those, why should a "public servant" have one, let alone a decent one?


It used to be a trade off. Government employees got relatively low pay in exchanged for good beneifts and better than average job security.

However both pay and benefits have grown exorbitantly-beyond the ability of the tax payers to afford which ironically impacts the job security thing.

Government pensions (all levels combined) now cost about $1 trillion a year and represent the singe largest expense for may states and local governments.. Many of these pension pay 90% or better and require little or no contributions from the recipients.

Nobody is saying government employees should be destitute but they should not be better off than the average person/tax payer who is footing the bill. A good solution would be to require them to contribute more toward their own retirement plans since their relative wages have increased.

Six-figure L.A. city pensions

Six-figure pensions soar for California school administrators

Calif. six-figure pension club grows exponentially Payouts increase 73% in two years
 
2013-06-18 02:05:28 PM  

Ninja Otter: Fizpez: You know what happens when the project returns don't meet the expected outlays?  They change the contribution rates and retirement guidelines - but they do it on a timescale that allows people to make adjustments.

The problem is two-fold. First, there's an incentive to promise more than you can actually give, as that's someone else's problem. The thieving CEO may be long-gone by the time it's clear that not enough money was set aside. Second, what if the company goes bankrupt? Contribution rates don't matter if there's no one to contribute any more.

http://www.barlettandsteele.com/journalism/time_retirement_2.php

There's the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, basically government backing of pensions; it's running massive deficits.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-11-16/business/35505545_1_pb gc -premiums-pension-plans-troubled-pension-funds


The pension fund is NOT controlled by the company and the participants - a third party oversees the entire fund - in short, it is managed like a mutual fund.  There are fairly rigorous guidelines about how the fund may invest regarding risk and the "defined" part of the benefits set the investments target goals.  The program has a long view on assets vs. liabilities - our required contribution was recently increased from 11 to 14% of our gross salary (let that sink in for a second) over the next 3 years because projections for fund assets 30 years from now showed a liability debt - all of this was done before the market improved.

it's quite possible to have a defined benefit plan - but it can not be seen as some sort of piggy bank to be raided whenever those involved need some quick cash.
 
2013-06-18 02:13:55 PM  

Fizpez: Ninja Otter: Fizpez: You know what happens when the project returns don't meet the expected outlays?  They change the contribution rates and retirement guidelines - but they do it on a timescale that allows people to make adjustments.

The problem is two-fold. First, there's an incentive to promise more than you can actually give, as that's someone else's problem. The thieving CEO may be long-gone by the time it's clear that not enough money was set aside. Second, what if the company goes bankrupt? Contribution rates don't matter if there's no one to contribute any more.

http://www.barlettandsteele.com/journalism/time_retirement_2.php

There's the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, basically government backing of pensions; it's running massive deficits.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-11-16/business/35505545_1_pb gc -premiums-pension-plans-troubled-pension-funds

The pension fund is NOT controlled by the company and the participants - a third party oversees the entire fund - in short, it is managed like a mutual fund.  There are fairly rigorous guidelines about how the fund may invest regarding risk and the "defined" part of the benefits set the investments target goals.  The program has a long view on assets vs. liabilities - our required contribution was recently increased from 11 to 14% of our gross salary (let that sink in for a second) over the next 3 years because projections for fund assets 30 years from now showed a liability debt - all of this was done before the market improved.

it's quite possible to have a defined benefit plan - but it can not be seen as some sort of piggy bank to be raided whenever those involved need some quick cash.


You know, this same thing happened with the Post Office. I'm glad your fund manager had the foresight to admit that there would be a shortfall. The Post Office fund manager is delusional. I don't have the link in front of me, but the "prefunding" that everyone talked about was actually based on the simple math of the returns. They investments were based on the fund seeing a 6.3% ROI in the market, but instead were seeing numbers more like 3.1-3.2% and being drastically underfunded. So when they say its prefunded, they are basing that on a fairy tale return number.
 
2013-06-18 02:19:15 PM  

MCStymie: Bender The Offender: Detroit has brought us both Eminem and Royce da 5'9, can we afford to allow the birthplace of such national treasures to fade away into financial insolvency?

ICP also hails from Motown!  It's a veritable Mecca of culture!


also kid rock. he got a place near the manoogian mansion, I think.

jack white is also a Detroiter.

a few celebrities from the Detroit metro area.

it's far from dead, but it's not quite alive.
 
2013-06-18 02:20:33 PM  

legion_of_doo: MCStymie: Bender The Offender: Detroit has brought us both Eminem and Royce da 5'9, can we afford to allow the birthplace of such national treasures to fade away into financial insolvency?

ICP also hails from Motown!  It's a veritable Mecca of culture!

also kid rock. he got a place near the manoogian mansion, I think.

jack white is also a Detroiter.

a few celebrities from the Detroit metro area.

it's far from dead, but it's not quite alive.


So it is undead?
 
2013-06-18 02:20:47 PM  

meanmutton: YixilTesiphon: meanmutton: YixilTesiphon: You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?

Every big city in Texas?

Houston is 51% white, Dallas is 50.7% white, San Antonio is 72.6% white.  All per the 2010 US Census.

I am pretty sure somebody asking if any minority-"white" cities are doing well doesn't count Mexicans and Arabs as white. San Antonio is 26.6% non-Hispanic white, Dallas 28.8%, Houston 26%, Austin 48.7%.

Is there some sort of "whiteness" test now?  Sounds kind of Klansey.


no, just an observation that black run cities are Shiat holes that go broke, then cry about white people hating to draw attention away from the fact they made their city a shiat hole all on their own.

dont cae let their city burn to the ground, fark city workers let them eat dog food.
or get a real job
 
2013-06-18 02:26:56 PM  

Ninja Otter: Pensions, Social Security, etc. should be replaced by tightly regulated defined contribution plans, not defined benefit plans that lead to problems like this and California's, where they've overpromised pensions and people game the system to get even bigger ones thanks to one or two years of lots of voluntary overtime. The funds should be invested in lifecycle-style funds, with no ability to borrow against (even for home purchase, hardship, etc). this is the money to make sure you can survive in retirement, not a fund to raid as needed. *Everyone* should have one; if you're married, filing jointly, some goes into your spouse's account (and your account is untouchable in a divorce) Not earning much? Just like social security, you get some gov't money to boost your contribution to a minimal amount to survive on.


This.

I don't trust that my pension will be there in 40 years.  I do trust that my 401K will be (barring major, major issues since touching the 401K would cause armed riots in every suburb around the country).

So give me an extra $5K and fantastic matching over a pension any day.
 
2013-06-18 02:29:53 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: meanmutton: YixilTesiphon: meanmutton: YixilTesiphon: You Are All Sheep: So I'm curious, how many large or fairly large cities have majority non-white citizenry and are doing well financially?

Every big city in Texas?

Houston is 51% white, Dallas is 50.7% white, San Antonio is 72.6% white.  All per the 2010 US Census.

I am pretty sure somebody asking if any minority-"white" cities are doing well doesn't count Mexicans and Arabs as white. San Antonio is 26.6% non-Hispanic white, Dallas 28.8%, Houston 26%, Austin 48.7%.

Is there some sort of "whiteness" test now?  Sounds kind of Klansey.

no, just an observation that black run cities are Shiat holes that go broke, then cry about white people hating to draw attention away from the fact they made their city a shiat hole all on their own.

dont cae let their city burn to the ground, fark city workers let them eat dog food.
or get a real job


Why don't they just burn the city to the ground? Seriously? One big controlled burn. Puts the firefighters to work. Or let scrappers come in and have the abandoned properties with the understanding that they have to clean the entire property of wreckage. There are unique fixes for this no-one considers.
 
2013-06-18 02:36:24 PM  

hasty ambush: Testiclaw: We should pay public employees as little as possible, because it's our tax dollars and they should want to do the job because they feel strongly about public service -not because it pays well.

Pensions? Private workers don't have those, why should a "public servant" have one, let alone a decent one?

It used to be a trade off. Government employees got relatively low pay in exchanged for good beneifts and better than average job security.

However both pay and benefits have grown exorbitantly-beyond the ability of the tax payers to afford which ironically impacts the job security thing.

Government pensions (all levels combined) now cost about $1 trillion a year and represent the singe largest expense for may states and local governments.. Many of these pension pay 90% or better and require little or no contributions from the recipients.

Nobody is saying government employees should be destitute but they should not be better off than the average person/tax payer who is footing the bill. A good solution would be to require them to contribute more toward their own retirement plans since their relative wages have increased.

Six-figure L.A. city pensions

Six-figure pensions soar for California school administrators

Calif. six-figure pension club grows exponentially Payouts increase 73% in two years


(Not meant to be a factual statement)
 
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