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(Real Clear World)   Characters from The Game Of Thrones....labelled for today's political scientist. Yes, Daenerys is a NeoCon. A sexy, sexy NeoCon   (realclearworld.com) divider line 122
    More: Amusing, political scientists, neocons, Ned Stark  
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11295 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 12:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-18 03:53:52 PM  
I think that hodar is more the neocon he only says one thing it's never related to what's going on and has an iq equal to most gold fish
 
2013-06-18 04:04:07 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed


NSFW Link

Those of you making GOT political should be cockpunched. Politics has ruined everything else leave GOT alone.
 
2013-06-18 04:23:22 PM  

Truther: Shows your limited understanding.

Neocons aren't the evil boogeymen you've been taught to believe they are.

They aren't necessarily angels in shining Armor either, but Liberalism isn't all wholesome and sweetness either.

But go ahead and follow the crowd. Seems a neutral opinion based on facts became passe a looong time ago...


i796.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-18 04:42:28 PM  

litmusdragon: AverageAmericanGuy: I suppose this is something I would have to own a television to understand.

[i42.tinypic.com image 715x713]


God, that was a masterstroke burn.
 
2013-06-18 05:29:53 PM  
OMG warn me the next time the link is just a slideshow of some idiot jerking off!
 
2013-06-18 05:32:54 PM  

cardex: I think that hodar is more the neocon he only says one thing it's never related to what's going on and has an iq equal to most gold fish


Yes, but Hodor obviously has good intentions.
 
2013-06-18 05:39:56 PM  
A neocon who goes around freeing slaves from their (corporate) masters.  Yeah buddy, sure sounds like a neocon to me.
 
kth
2013-06-18 06:12:38 PM  

Skyrmion: Obligatory:

[lipstickandpolitics.com image 850x572]


That makes me giggle every damn time.

Especially "always going on about climate change."
 
2013-06-18 06:18:21 PM  

Skyrmion: badhatharry: reillan: badhatharry: Starks=Conservative
Lannisters=Liberal
Wildlings=Libertarian

Starks and wildlings, yes.  Lannisters are not liberal - they are the capitalist overlords of everyone else.  The only liberals are the Tyrells.

Yeah right, liberals are not rich capitalist overlords.

The good capitalists in the series are the Braavosi bankers and maybe Petyr Baelish. The Lannisters are just aristocrats who happen to own land with tons of mineral wealth.


Gendry's blacksmith master was apparently a good capitalist. As opposed to the Hound who didn't too well in his new venture.
 
2013-06-18 06:43:28 PM  

blatz514: Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed

Agreed!

Except mine is NSFW


I'll drink to dat ass! DAYUM!

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 06:44:30 PM  

blatz514: Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed

Agreed!

Except mine is NSFW


Holy shiat! I will definitely drink to datazz!

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 08:12:43 PM  
 
2013-06-18 08:44:32 PM  

illannoyin: Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed

NSFW Link

Those of you making GOT political should be cockpunched. Politics has ruined everything else leave GOT alone.


GoT doesn't mesh well with real-world politics -every last one of them, by our standards, is conservative enough to make a Tea Partier faint- but politics is nevertheless at the heart of the series. What is the game of thrones, if not politics?
 
2013-06-18 09:31:31 PM  
Thread may still contain spoilers.
 
2013-06-18 09:58:12 PM  

Millennium: What is the game of thrones, if not politics?


It's a lot of different things and the unique combination is arguably the driver of its success -- to a lot of people it's something they've never read/watched before.  But if we set aside the negative connotations for the moment and try to apply the most objective discription of what this story is, by percentage of content it's really more a soap opera than anything else.  The only real connection (if one can call it that) most of the cast has with common people is that they're nobles; what goes on is really beyond the people's control and they're not organizing their own revolutions so as far as the plot's concerned they're as relevant as the landscape.  "The people are suffering" is as much flavor text as "the tapestries were grand yet old and covered with dust".  So the story's mostly about the twists and turns of the cast's fortunes as they scheme, betray and kill one another.  At any given moment there's a lot of complexity to the current situation, there's certainly a lot of intrigue as the action progresses from one scene to the next and characters come and go because it's one hell of a meatgrinder.  However, the overall political situation is static to the point of irrelevant.  It certainly matters to characters A, B and C that character X is alive, character Y is dead and character Z is missing, but after 4000 pages (and a rather large house-cleaning) there isn't much indication that Westeros is progressing toward any sort of politically stable endgame unless Dany and/or the zombies sweep through and render 90% of what everyone watched/read up to that point entirely meaningless.
 
2013-06-18 10:07:35 PM  
Articles like TFA really illustrate how different liberal and conservative world views are.  It's actually downright frightening to me how vastly different conservative and progressive perceptions are, but it makes sense in regards to how difficult it is to get through to each other.  From a liberal point of view it is always comical to see that the conservatives see themselves as righteous and honorable when their actions seem to consistently conflict with this idea.  That isn't to imply that all liberal/progressive politicians are righteous and honorable either, but they are a lot closer in most their actions than current conservative politicians.

This was cute though.  I say that in the most patronizing way possible because it was so far removed from reality that it's hard to even take remotely seriously.
 
2013-06-18 10:59:58 PM  

PillsHere: Articles like TFA really illustrate how different liberal and conservative world views are.  It's actually downright frightening to me how vastly different conservative and progressive perceptions are, but it makes sense in regards to how difficult it is to get through to each other.  From a liberal point of view it is always comical to see that the conservatives see themselves as righteous and honorable when their actions seem to consistently conflict with this idea.  That isn't to imply that all liberal/progressive politicians are righteous and honorable either, but they are a lot closer in most their actions than current conservative politicians.

This was cute though.  I say that in the most patronizing way possible because it was so far removed from reality that it's hard to even take remotely seriously.


I like the way the story contrasts the different people with different ideas. We think we know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Then we learn that things aren't that simple. All of the groups think they are right and there are good characters and evil characters on all sides.
 
2013-06-19 07:48:49 AM  

badhatharry: We think we know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Then we learn that things aren't that simple.


That people still find this some sort of mind-blowing revelation. . . sigh.  Right, so what exactly about Joffrey makes him a complex character with a rich diversity of shades-of-gray morality?  Or Ramsay?  I really don't see much nuance at all here.  Maybe those are unfair examples, though I would like the concession that GRRM sometimes makes unquestionably one-dimensional characters.

I suppose we're really talking about characters like Melisandre, whose "evil" gets reinvented later as ruthless pragmatism.  Or maybe even Tywin, who's given a backstory to explain why he's such an asshole -- that's a pretty common trick, actually.  Here's where I have a different complaint:  Stop confusing character re-invention with depth.  I saw the same shiat with Evangelion and it wasn't character depth then, either.  Characters don't become "deep" just because they're deconstructed or reinvented.  Frankly, it's entirely too easy to get away with that when moral relativism is all the rage these days.

That's not to say GRRM's characters lack depth in general, but many of his characters aren't complex so much as inconsistent or sold dishonestly.  The former is a cheap way to add faux complexity; the latter can work as a plot device from time to time but deconstruction and reinvention aren't depth.  Now, I'm sure people are going to interpret this as some sort of blanket accusation that GRRM's characters are all cardboard cutouts, but I'm not saying depth isn't there.  It is in some cases, but the disappointing aspect of that is that GRRM's clearly capable of much better because in many cases he does much better.  But the depth he adds is NOT in the whole "gray morality" schlock that today's pop culture can't stop slobbering over like a two-buck hooker on a city councilman's pecker.  There are good people and bad people in real life, and it's adding genuine depth to that that's a real writing challenge.  Reinventing a character is as artistic as adding "complexity" to a $2 bowl from Wal-mart by chipping it.
 
2013-06-19 08:46:03 AM  

dragonchild: badhatharry: We think we know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Then we learn that things aren't that simple.

That people still find this some sort of mind-blowing revelation. . . sigh.  Right, so what exactly about Joffrey makes him a complex character with a rich diversity of shades-of-gray morality?  Or Ramsay?  I really don't see much nuance at all here.  Maybe those are unfair examples, though I would like the concession that GRRM sometimes makes unquestionably one-dimensional characters.

I suppose we're really talking about characters like Melisandre, whose "evil" gets reinvented later as ruthless pragmatism.  Or maybe even Tywin, who's given a backstory to explain why he's such an asshole -- that's a pretty common trick, actually.  Here's where I have a different complaint:  Stop confusing character re-invention with depth.  I saw the same shiat with Evangelion and it wasn't character depth then, either.  Characters don't become "deep" just because they're deconstructed or reinvented.  Frankly, it's entirely too easy to get away with that when moral relativism is all the rage these days.

That's not to say GRRM's characters lack depth in general, but many of his characters aren't complex so much as inconsistent or sold dishonestly.  The former is a cheap way to add faux complexity; the latter can work as a plot device from time to time but deconstruction and reinvention aren't depth.  Now, I'm sure people are going to interpret this as some sort of blanket accusation that GRRM's characters are all cardboard cutouts, but I'm not saying depth isn't there.  It is in some cases, but the disappointing aspect of that is that GRRM's clearly capable of much better because in many cases he does much better.  But the depth he adds is NOT in the whole "gray morality" schlock that today's pop culture can't stop slobbering over like a two-buck hooker on a city councilman's pecker.  There are good people and bad people in real life, and it's adding genuine ...


Joffrey and Ramsay are clearly just evil. One is a Lannister and one is a Stark bannerman. Jaime seems to be reinvented but he has no excuse for pushing Bran.

 I was thinking of the Night's Watch vs the Wildlings. Or Melisandre. Or the Hound. I don't think they have been reinvented. We have just learned about who they really are.
 
2013-06-19 09:36:10 AM  

badhatharry: I don't think they have been reinvented. We have just learned about who they really are.


That is reinvention, and while it can be a clever plot trick, it's not depth.

One of the most effective uses of reinvention is the movie The Usual Suspects and the identity of Keyser Söze.  From a movie plot standpoint, it's an awesome whodunit that's the main driver of the suspense (if you don't know/predict the ending) or character tension (even if you know what happens).  But from a character standpoint Keyser is established as a ruthless psychopath from the start, and nothing happens over the course of the movie to contradict that.  Once his identity is revealed it's apparent everything he's done up to that point was just a ruse, so the character in the end is as one-dimensional as any Disney flick.  Note this isn't an insult to the quality of the work, per se.  There's nothing wrong with Keyser being a one-dimensional monster because that's really the point.  I think it's excellent storytelling, and similarly, if GRRM is getting all sorts of mileage out of his crypto-bastards that's fine too.  Where I draw the line is when people start praising his moral relativism as some sort of character depth or complexity.  Melisandre is not a complex character just because GRRM pulled a bait-and-switch and retroactively changed the context of her actions.  It makes the plot complex, but the character was just re-invented.

As for the Hound. . . OK he's not "good" or "evil", but he's such a stereotypical disillusioned alcoholic mercenary that if you gave him a flak vest and assault rifle with an under-barrel chainsaw and threw him into Gears of War he'd be totally invisible and probably even find Nirvana.  The guy's "shades of gray" dudebro morality has been done a gazillion times in FPS video games.  I don't find him complex because I identify with him all too readily if I turn my brain off and inject myself with refined testosterone.

Incidentally GRRM probably (and perhaps even accidentally) develops the most depth in his least likeable "good" ones like Robb Stark.  His decisions, good or bad, largely follow from a very human mix of tangible family influences, his own emotions and lack of experience.  That makes him a (mentally) weak and sometimes downright aggravating character, but you can see how his decisions are the result of a tragically convoluted, frothing mixture of inner conflict as he tries to apply his clearly incomplete knowledge of the world in ways that consider both his own and others' expectations.  It's a doomed venture from the start -- he's obviously in way over his head -- but it's one of the more interesting stories within the overall narrative.  He's not reinvented or deconstructed.  He is, however, betrayed and killed off.
 
2013-06-19 10:14:26 AM  

Klivian: theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.

Her answer to every problem is "fark you, I got dragons"

Sounds like Neocons to me


She's also forcing people to accept her Westerosi belief system, whether they like it or not, because she believe it's the morally superior lifestyle.

Neo-con!
 
2013-06-19 12:32:26 PM  

theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.


Yeah, this list is bullshiat.  She resembles nothing of today's political landscape at all.  With the combo of rapidly acquired wisdom and clever use of her might, care for the powerless & children, she resembles more of the old-school Democrats (FDR, Kennedy, Johnson) -- the ones with balls, wiles & compassion to get the right stuff done.
 
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