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(Real Clear World)   Characters from The Game Of Thrones....labelled for today's political scientist. Yes, Daenerys is a NeoCon. A sexy, sexy NeoCon   (realclearworld.com) divider line 122
    More: Amusing, political scientists, neocons, Ned Stark  
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11315 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 12:08 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



122 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-18 12:10:46 PM  
I suppose this is something I would have to own a television to understand.
 
2013-06-18 12:10:57 PM  
She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.
 
2013-06-18 12:11:40 PM  
"Real Clear" anything is farking garbage.
 
2013-06-18 12:11:59 PM  
The Lannister section immediately turned into "Fartbama Foreign Policy failure WAHRARWETGHAREGRKEJWE"
 
2013-06-18 12:12:23 PM  
Stop. Game of Thrones is not a master's course on political warfare. It's a Politics 202 course's three day lecture on power systems.
 
2013-06-18 12:12:46 PM  

theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.


Her answer to every problem is "fark you, I got dragons"

Sounds like Neocons to me
 
2013-06-18 12:12:57 PM  
Yeah, the factions in Game of Thrones don't map well to the modern political spectrum.
 
2013-06-18 12:13:53 PM  

Klivian: Her answer to every problem is "fark you, I got dragons"

Sounds like Neocons to me


Except those really are WMDs.
 
2013-06-18 12:14:08 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Yeah, the factions in Game of Thrones don't map well to the modern political spectrum.


What do you mean? They all seem pro-rape to me, therefore their all Republicans.
 
2013-06-18 12:14:42 PM  
Well I stopped reading after this:  However, Obama is often a bad realist, more Joffrey than Tywin. On the margins, the U.S. gained nothing by irritating Israel and cozying up to Russia, which had supported three UN sanctions resolutions under President Bush. It got less from Assad. The mullahs, now democracy-free, continue to enrich uranium. And it is the rare president who can have worse relations with India, Pakistan and Afghanistan simultaneously than his predecessor. Unfortunately for the U.S., Cersei, not Tywin, is at the helm.

So I'm guessing the whole thing is just going to be derpy derp derp in the rest of the "article."
 
2013-06-18 12:14:49 PM  
Someone has too much time on their hands. This is about as sensical and trying to map Equestria's political landscape onto the real world.
 
2013-06-18 12:15:32 PM  
This is Obama's Battle of Blackwater.
 
2013-06-18 12:16:24 PM  
Leave it to Real Clear Politics World to make Game Of Thrones boring.
 
2013-06-18 12:16:49 PM  
Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

www.locomag.com


pic is borrowed
 
2013-06-18 12:16:54 PM  
What fresh hell did I just read?
 
2013-06-18 12:17:17 PM  
This is bullshiat. The Dragon Mother is pro Israel?
 
2013-06-18 12:17:39 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I suppose this is something I would have to own a television to understand.


Or a library card.
 
2013-06-18 12:18:51 PM  
Dany = Rubio
Joffrey/Cersei = Obama
Robb Stark = Rand Paul
Tyrion = Boehner
Stannis = Hillary
Greyjoys = Iran
Jamie = McCain

WTF??
 
2013-06-18 12:19:47 PM  
Gist of article
"We hate Obama, and if you like Game of Thrones, you should too."
 
2013-06-18 12:20:11 PM  

The Downfall: So I'm guessing the whole thing is just going to be derpy derp derp in the rest of the "article."


Yeah, someone is jumping through hoops to make the "good" characters line up with their own politics.

Besides, Obama is more like the Starks - he trusts clearly awful people to make trustworthy deals with him and then asks surprised when they confirm their awfulness.
 
2013-06-18 12:20:22 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed


Agreed!

Except mine is NSFW
 
2013-06-18 12:21:06 PM  

The Downfall: Well I stopped reading after this:  However, Obama is often a bad realist, more Joffrey than Tywin. On the margins, the U.S. gained nothing by irritating Israel and cozying up to Russia, which had supported three UN sanctions resolutions under President Bush. It got less from Assad. The mullahs, now democracy-free, continue to enrich uranium. And it is the rare president who can have worse relations with India, Pakistan and Afghanistan simultaneously than his predecessor. Unfortunately for the U.S., Cersei, not Tywin, is at the helm.

So I'm guessing the whole thing is just going to be derpy derp derp in the rest of the "article."


The writer later goes on to compare Stannis to Hill-dog and Jaime to McCain
 
2013-06-18 12:21:57 PM  
Real Clear

You know nothing of my works.

Sincerely
G.R.R. Martin
 
2013-06-18 12:22:11 PM  

kitsuneymg: Someone has too much time on their hands. This is about as sensical and trying to map Equestria's political landscape onto the real world.


Is that considering the website layout? Seven pages for that bullshait? I'd rather read seven pages about boiled leather.
 
2013-06-18 12:22:55 PM  
It's a fantasy series involving dragons and magic. Stop trying to make it relevant to politics and enjoy it.
 
2013-06-18 12:22:56 PM  
I agree with the article that Hodor is analogous to Dubya.
 
2013-06-18 12:23:41 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.




pic is borrowed


I wouldnt mind an Emilia Clarke thread but her character is just awful
 
2013-06-18 12:23:43 PM  
i had no idea what the heck the article was talking about, but it did come across as b.s.
 
2013-06-18 12:24:03 PM  

The Downfall: Dany = Rubio
Joffrey/Cersei = Obama
Robb Stark = Rand Paul
Tyrion = Boehner
Stannis = Hillary
Greyjoys = Iran
Jamie = McCain

WTF??



Well... Jamie was a POW.  Obama is the currently on the "throne".  Other than that, no.
 
2013-06-18 12:24:30 PM  
Joe Biden is Hodor.
 
2013-06-18 12:25:05 PM  
Obligatory:

lipstickandpolitics.com
 
2013-06-18 12:25:10 PM  

what_now: It's a fantasy series involving dragons and magic. Stop trying to make it relevant to politics and enjoy it.


Hey, the creationist museum has an exhibit on dragons now, it's fair game.

Also, it may be derp, but it's unintentionally hilarious derp.
 
2013-06-18 12:25:12 PM  
John Boehner and Tyrion Lannister?

Yeah... No. Maybe the drinking, but that's it.
 
2013-06-18 12:25:33 PM  

what_now: It's a fantasy series involving dragons and magic. Stop trying to make it relevant to politics and enjoy it.


Some people want to make it relevant to politics because they assume they are or will be the Lannisters.
 
2013-06-18 12:26:26 PM  

The Downfall: Tyrion = Boehner


images.encyclopediadramatica.se
 
2013-06-18 12:26:27 PM  
Ramsay Bolton = Dick Cheney
Michele Bachmann = Hodor
 
2013-06-18 12:26:43 PM  

Bot v2.38beta: kitsuneymg: Someone has too much time on their hands. This is about as sensical and trying to map Equestria's political landscape onto the real world.

Is that considering the website layout? Seven pages for that bullshait? I'd rather read seven pages about boiled leather.


That can be arranged.
 
2013-06-18 12:27:21 PM  
I think it would have been a better list if the writer just said every politician is Littlefinger
 
2013-06-18 12:27:24 PM  

what_now: It's a fantasy series involving dragons and magic. Stop trying to make it relevant to politics and enjoy it.


I dunno, sounds pretty relevant to southern evangelicals.
 
2013-06-18 12:27:42 PM  
So who's the real llfe equivalent of Joffrey?
 
2013-06-18 12:27:46 PM  
International Relations Theory in Game of Thrones

by: Hodor
 
2013-06-18 12:28:20 PM  

tblax


I wouldnt mind an Emilia Clarke thread but her character is just awful


That would be fine too*, but the headline referred to Daenerys.


* I do not control these things.
 
2013-06-18 12:29:43 PM  
i208.photobucket.com
Believes in the Golden Rule.
 
2013-06-18 12:29:49 PM  

Drubell: So who's the real llfe equivalent of Joffrey?


img.timeinc.net
 
2013-06-18 12:29:52 PM  
"Sexy, sexy neocon"? No, that does not exist.

/DNRTFA
//DNWGoT
 
2013-06-18 12:29:58 PM  

Skyrmion: Obligatory:

[lipstickandpolitics.com image 850x572]


Clearly this was made before the end of Season 3 and/or never read the books.
 
2013-06-18 12:30:36 PM  

Directorscut: Drubell: So who's the real llfe equivalent of Joffrey?


Oh snap
 
2013-06-18 12:30:53 PM  

theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.


She's a benovelent dictator.

While she cares about the welling being of the common man, at the end of the day still believes that it's her divine right to be the ruler of Westeros, and she relies on military force to legitimize her rule.
 
2013-06-18 12:33:09 PM  

WTF Indeed: Game of Thrones is not a master's course on political warfare.


It would make for a helluva fun conversation though, especially with some beer & weed.  There are a lot of Ayn Rand and Niccolo Machiavelli undertones.

The Downfall: Well I stopped reading after this: However, Obama is often a bad realist, more Joffrey than Tywin. On the margins, the U.S. gained nothing by irritating Israel and cozying up to Russia, which had supported three UN sanctions resolutions under President Bush. It got less from Assad. The mullahs, now democracy-free, continue to enrich uranium.


Like I said. . . this is not a conversation to undertake while sober.
 
2013-06-18 12:34:49 PM  
This is precisely the sort of rigorous, objective, intellectual application of knowledge that we've all come to expect from politicians, hacks and their supporters.

Keep farking that chicken, guys.

/ the characters I like are all *just like* the real people I like
// the characters I do not like are all *just like* the real people I do not like
/// funny how it just worked out that way, when selectively reported data was fudged through a flimsy subjective interpretation of the self-contradictory world view I cheer on full time.
 
2013-06-18 12:35:06 PM  

DubtodaIll: Skyrmion: Obligatory:

[lipstickandpolitics.com image 850x572]

Clearly this was made before the end of Season 3 and/or never read the books.


With the inclusion of Santorum and Gingrich, you can tell it was made at a certain point in the 2012 Republican Primary season.
 
2013-06-18 12:36:13 PM  

Skyrmion: DubtodaIll: Skyrmion: Obligatory:

[lipstickandpolitics.com image 850x572]

Clearly this was made before the end of Season 3 and/or never read the books.

With the inclusion of Santorum and Gingrich, you can tell it was made at a certain point in the 2012 Republican Primary season.


What stood out to me the most was their association of Obama with Rob Stark.
 
2013-06-18 12:37:35 PM  

dragonchild: There are a lot of Ayn Rand and Niccolo Machiavelli undertones


No there aren't. There are lots of a Middle Ages royalty references and graphic nudity. Thinking Game of Thrones is a study in Ayn Rand is the same as thinking "The Dark Knight" was a study into the human psyche.
 
2013-06-18 12:38:05 PM  

tblax: The Downfall: Well I stopped reading after this:  However, Obama is often a bad realist, more Joffrey than Tywin. On the margins, the U.S. gained nothing by irritating Israel and cozying up to Russia, which had supported three UN sanctions resolutions under President Bush. It got less from Assad. The mullahs, now democracy-free, continue to enrich uranium. And it is the rare president who can have worse relations with India, Pakistan and Afghanistan simultaneously than his predecessor. Unfortunately for the U.S., Cersei, not Tywin, is at the helm.

So I'm guessing the whole thing is just going to be derpy derp derp in the rest of the "article."

The writer later goes on to compare Stannis to Hill-dog and Jaime to McCain



And his reasoning?  Stannis uses a religion he doesn't believe in.  Wow, way to call all Dems atheists.  What an ass.
 
2013-06-18 12:38:08 PM  

suburbanguy: "Sexy, sexy neocon"? No, that does not exist.


www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com

Hey ladies, who wants a mustache ride?
 
2013-06-18 12:39:16 PM  
So all a neocon has to do in order to gain an army is show up?  I swear, every time blondie sits still for 45 min SOMEONE signs up with her.
 
2013-06-18 12:39:31 PM  

dragonchild: There are a lot of Ayn Rand and Niccolo Machiavelli undertones.


Oh please don't drag Machiavelli into this crap. Machiavelli was a classical Republican --  The Prince was Machiavelli's attempt to kiss the de'Medici's asses after having been imprisoned and tortured for supporting the Florentine Republic.
 
2013-06-18 12:40:37 PM  

DubtodaIll: Skyrmion: DubtodaIll: Skyrmion: Obligatory:

[lipstickandpolitics.com image 850x572]

Clearly this was made before the end of Season 3 and/or never read the books.

With the inclusion of Santorum and Gingrich, you can tell it was made at a certain point in the 2012 Republican Primary season.

What stood out to me the most was their association of Obama with Rob Stark.


If it came out now in the middle of the NSA controversy, maybe they'd equate him with Varys.
 
2013-06-18 12:40:54 PM  
Usually, these lists just attempt to draw feeble parallels between the sports team that the author favors and one of the sympathetic houses, while painting divisional rivals as the Freys, Greyjoys and Lannisters of the world.  I guess that I shouldn't be surprised to see A Song of Ice and Fire's popularity enlisted in service of right wing derp, though.  What I want to know is whether there is actually an editor out there who, when pitched a Game of Thrones parallels article by one of her writers, is all like "Gee, that's an exciting and original idea."  Or do the editors just cynically keep approving them, knowing that we'll keep clicking (even if we know in advance that it's crap) because we're such sick, content-starved freaks?
 
2013-06-18 12:43:17 PM  

DarnoKonrad: "Real Clear" anything is farking garbage.


Yeah - for those who don't do slides, here's the tl;dr: Republicans GOOD.  Democrats BAD.  Republicans are only out for justice.  Democrats are wolves in sheep's clothing.  RAND PAUL
 
2013-06-18 12:43:41 PM  

theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.


this.  We all want her, don't try to pretend she's a neocon just because you want her to yourself, subby (or tfa writer).
 
2013-06-18 12:45:00 PM  

suburbanguy: "Sexy, sexy neocon"? No, that does not exist.


Well, this is a fantasy series.
 
2013-06-18 12:46:57 PM  

dragonchild: There are a lot of Ayn Rand and Niccolo Machiavelli undertones.


WTF Indeed: No there aren't. There are lots of a Middle Ages royalty references and graphic nudity.


They're undertones, not effin' research footnotes.  You're still way too sober to be having this conversation.

that bosnian sniper: The Prince was Machiavelli's attempt to kiss the de'Medici's asses after having been imprisoned and tortured for supporting the Florentine Republic.


That contradicts my point how?  Calm down and have another beer.

The reason I'm having fun with this is because I'm not taking this anywhere nearly as seriously as you guys are.
 
2013-06-18 12:49:00 PM  

dragonchild: WTF Indeed: Game of Thrones is not a master's course on political warfare.

It would make for a helluva fun conversation though, especially with some beer & weed.  There are a lot of Ayn Rand and Niccolo Machiavelli undertones.

The Downfall: Well I stopped reading after this: However, Obama is often a bad realist, more Joffrey than Tywin. On the margins, the U.S. gained nothing by irritating Israel and cozying up to Russia, which had supported three UN sanctions resolutions under President Bush. It got less from Assad. The mullahs, now democracy-free, continue to enrich uranium.

Like I said. . . this is not a conversation to undertake while sober.


Tywin Shrugged
 
2013-06-18 12:51:27 PM  

theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.


She takes a culture filled with deep seated tribal and socioreligious divides by force leading to an extensive quagmire, forces her elite forces into an unwinnable battle against insurgents who have no compunctions against killing innocents to make a point.  She falls for a charismatic leader of a group of mercenaries who fights the regime, but ultimately helps to place those same mercenaries into a position of power over the downtrodden, while making excuses for continuing a years long stalemate.

Daenerys starts as Lincoln, then goes full Bush dynasty in Meereen.
 
2013-06-18 12:53:41 PM  

DubtodaIll: What stood out to me the most was their association of Obama with Rob Stark.


A charismatic leader rose to power and lost bannermen because of lack of experience. That's the comparison. Not that he was murdered at a feast, would be apt for Bush though. 

mike_d85: That can be arranged.
 
2013-06-18 12:54:27 PM  
Yet another chapter of "Totalitarian Conservatism". I wish GRRM pumped out ASOIAF chapters as fast.
 
2013-06-18 12:55:36 PM  
Damn it. Too large.
 
2013-06-18 01:05:13 PM  

Directorscut: Drubell: So who's the real llfe equivalent of Joffrey?

[img.timeinc.net image 470x588]


Niiiiiice.
 
2013-06-18 01:06:57 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: Daenerys starts as Lincoln, then goes full Bush dynasty in Meereen.


Duuuuuude. I think you're right. Pass the Funyons.
 
2013-06-18 01:08:30 PM  
I don't like it overused but this is the "Mr. Madison..." speech is perfect.
 
2013-06-18 01:09:43 PM  

Skyrmion: Obligatory:

[lipstickandpolitics.com image 850x572]


heh heh heh, the climate change one made lol
 
2013-06-18 01:24:00 PM  
Huh? It's like the author was trying to be funny but kept forgetting to tell a joke.

Real Clear ....

Ah... Conservative humor.
 
2013-06-18 01:25:52 PM  
Your blog sucks.
 
2013-06-18 01:27:54 PM  
I usually stick to comparing fictional characters to friends of mine, but even that is a huge waste of time and fully of folly.
 
2013-06-18 01:34:14 PM  
One day I'll get around to watching that show.
 
2013-06-18 01:36:00 PM  

that bosnian sniper: what_now: It's a fantasy series involving dragons and magic. Stop trying to make it relevant to politics and enjoy it.

Hey, the creationist museum has an exhibit on dragons now, it's fair game.

Also, it may be derp, but it's unintentionally hilarious derp.


I saw that on a billboard.  I almost drove off the road.
 
2013-06-18 01:45:37 PM  

Evil Mackerel: One day I'll get around to watching that show.


It's pretty good. also: lots of tits and violence.
 
2013-06-18 01:58:38 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I suppose this is something I would have to own a television to understand.


Or you could open a book, you pompous ass.
 
2013-06-18 02:00:18 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Evil Mackerel: One day I'll get around to watching that show.

It's pretty good. also: lots of tits and violence.


Unfortunately, because of all the hype it will never live up to your expectations and you will be filled with 'meh' waiting for it to change your life.
 
2013-06-18 02:00:54 PM  

theorellior: Klivian: Her answer to every problem is "fark you, I got dragons"

Sounds like Neocons to me

Except those really are WMDs.


I guess the ancient Athenians were neo-cons too.

Skyrmion: DubtodaIll: Skyrmion: DubtodaIll: Skyrmion: Obligatory:

[lipstickandpolitics.com image 850x572]

Clearly this was made before the end of Season 3 and/or never read the books.

With the inclusion of Santorum and Gingrich, you can tell it was made at a certain point in the 2012 Republican Primary season.

What stood out to me the most was their association of Obama with Rob Stark.

If it came out now in the middle of the NSA controversy, maybe they'd equate him with Varys.


Nah, he's Jon Arryn. Boring, ultimately ineffectual because the people he's meant to counterbalance are obstinate morons who won't stop spending.
 
2013-06-18 02:09:18 PM  
ROBB STARK
 
2013-06-18 02:14:03 PM  
GAH... Read the Joffrey=Obama part and felt the urge to kill rising, then read Tyrion=Boehner and started laughing. If we're going to play this game Boehner=Sansa you know because of the crying all the time.
 
2013-06-18 02:27:39 PM  

Molotovcat: GAH... Read the Joffrey=Obama part and felt the urge to kill rising, then read Tyrion=Boehner and started laughing. If we're going to play this game Boehner=Sansa you know because of the crying all the time.


Yeah - for those who don't do slides, here's the tl;dr: Republicans GOOD.  Democrats BAD.  Republicans are only out for justice.  Democrats are wolves in sheep's clothing.  RAND PAUL
 
2013-06-18 02:46:04 PM  
I came in here specifically for the poutrage over the Obama comparisons.

/was not disappointed
//you guys are precious
 
2013-06-18 02:48:06 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I suppose this is something I would have to own a television to understand.


i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-06-18 03:03:38 PM  
Starks=Conservative
Lannisters=Liberal
Wildlings=Libertarian
 
2013-06-18 03:09:47 PM  

badhatharry: Starks=Conservative
Lannisters=Liberal
Wildlings=Libertarian


Starks and wildlings, yes.  Lannisters are not liberal - they are the capitalist overlords of everyone else.  The only liberals are the Tyrells.
 
2013-06-18 03:12:33 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I suppose this is something I would have to own a television to understand.


Or you could read the books.

I have a TV, but I don't have HBO.  So I'm mostly clues just the same.
I've only read the 1st in the series.  It was truly awesome, if not one of the most chaotic, violent, stories I've ever read.

And this comes from a huge fan of Stephen King.

Of all the characters, I like Tyrion best.  He's quite the badass for a little fella.
 
2013-06-18 03:27:53 PM  

durbnpoisn: AverageAmericanGuy: I suppose this is something I would have to own a television to understand.

Or you could read the books.

I have a TV, but I don't have HBO.  So I'm mostly clues just the same.
I've only read the 1st in the series.  It was truly awesome, if not one of the most chaotic, violent, stories I've ever read.

And this comes from a huge fan of Stephen King.

Of all the characters, I like Tyrion best.  He's quite the badass for a little fella.


You haven't seen anything yet.
 
2013-06-18 03:32:45 PM  

reillan: Starks and wildlings, yes.  Lannisters are not liberal - they are the capitalist overlords of everyone else.  The only liberals are the Tyrells.


Hey now, Jaime and Cersei support gay marriage, therefore they're all libs.
 
2013-06-18 03:38:48 PM  

theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.


Shows your limited understanding.

Neocons aren't the evil boogeymen you've been taught to believe they are.

They aren't necessarily angels in shining Armor either, but Liberalism isn't all wholesome and sweetness either.

But go ahead and follow the crowd. Seems a neutral opinion based on facts became passe a looong time ago...
 
2013-06-18 03:39:57 PM  

reillan: badhatharry: Starks=Conservative
Lannisters=Liberal
Wildlings=Libertarian

Starks and wildlings, yes.  Lannisters are not liberal - they are the capitalist overlords of everyone else.  The only liberals are the Tyrells.


Yeah right, liberals are not rich capitalist overlords.
 
2013-06-18 03:40:33 PM  

The Downfall: Dany = Rubio
Joffrey/Cersei = Obama
Robb Stark = Rand Paul
Tyrion = Boehner
Stannis = Hillary
Greyjoys = Iran
Jamie = McCain

WTF??


cdn.meme.li
 
2013-06-18 03:43:48 PM  

Drubell: So who's the real llfe equivalent of Joffrey?


All the Fark liberals.

Whiny bastards who think they're ways right?

/I'm just kidding, lighten up
 
2013-06-18 03:44:07 PM  

that bosnian sniper: reillan: Starks and wildlings, yes.  Lannisters are not liberal - they are the capitalist overlords of everyone else.  The only liberals are the Tyrells.

Hey now, Jaime and Cersei support gay marriage, therefore they're all libs.


I realize the show hasn't gotten to the Martells but wouldn't they be the liberals?
 
2013-06-18 03:44:46 PM  

badhatharry: reillan: badhatharry: Starks=Conservative
Lannisters=Liberal
Wildlings=Libertarian

Starks and wildlings, yes.  Lannisters are not liberal - they are the capitalist overlords of everyone else.  The only liberals are the Tyrells.

Yeah right, liberals are not rich capitalist overlords.


The good capitalists in the series are the Braavosi bankers and maybe Petyr Baelish. The Lannisters are just aristocrats who happen to own land with tons of mineral wealth.
 
2013-06-18 03:46:11 PM  
I see summer camp has gotten out for the day.
 
2013-06-18 03:46:30 PM  

Truther: theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.

Shows your limited understanding.

Neocons aren't the evil boogeymen you've been taught to believe they are.

They aren't necessarily angels in shining Armor either, but Liberalism isn't all wholesome and sweetness either.

But go ahead and follow the crowd. Seems a neutral opinion based on facts became passe a looong time ago...


She's about to be spreading freedom whether you want it or not!
 
2013-06-18 03:51:00 PM  

Skyrmion: badhatharry: reillan: badhatharry: Starks=Conservative
Lannisters=Liberal
Wildlings=Libertarian

Starks and wildlings, yes.  Lannisters are not liberal - they are the capitalist overlords of everyone else.  The only liberals are the Tyrells.

Yeah right, liberals are not rich capitalist overlords.

The good capitalists in the series are the Braavosi bankers and maybe Petyr Baelish. The Lannisters are just aristocrats who happen to own land with tons of mineral wealth.


I was thinking the Iron Bank has some solid practices for those who don't honor their debts.
 
2013-06-18 03:53:52 PM  
I think that hodar is more the neocon he only says one thing it's never related to what's going on and has an iq equal to most gold fish
 
2013-06-18 04:04:07 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed


NSFW Link

Those of you making GOT political should be cockpunched. Politics has ruined everything else leave GOT alone.
 
2013-06-18 04:23:22 PM  

Truther: Shows your limited understanding.

Neocons aren't the evil boogeymen you've been taught to believe they are.

They aren't necessarily angels in shining Armor either, but Liberalism isn't all wholesome and sweetness either.

But go ahead and follow the crowd. Seems a neutral opinion based on facts became passe a looong time ago...


i796.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-18 04:42:28 PM  

litmusdragon: AverageAmericanGuy: I suppose this is something I would have to own a television to understand.

[i42.tinypic.com image 715x713]


God, that was a masterstroke burn.
 
2013-06-18 05:29:53 PM  
OMG warn me the next time the link is just a slideshow of some idiot jerking off!
 
2013-06-18 05:32:54 PM  

cardex: I think that hodar is more the neocon he only says one thing it's never related to what's going on and has an iq equal to most gold fish


Yes, but Hodor obviously has good intentions.
 
2013-06-18 05:39:56 PM  
A neocon who goes around freeing slaves from their (corporate) masters.  Yeah buddy, sure sounds like a neocon to me.
 
kth
2013-06-18 06:12:38 PM  

Skyrmion: Obligatory:

[lipstickandpolitics.com image 850x572]


That makes me giggle every damn time.

Especially "always going on about climate change."
 
2013-06-18 06:18:21 PM  

Skyrmion: badhatharry: reillan: badhatharry: Starks=Conservative
Lannisters=Liberal
Wildlings=Libertarian

Starks and wildlings, yes.  Lannisters are not liberal - they are the capitalist overlords of everyone else.  The only liberals are the Tyrells.

Yeah right, liberals are not rich capitalist overlords.

The good capitalists in the series are the Braavosi bankers and maybe Petyr Baelish. The Lannisters are just aristocrats who happen to own land with tons of mineral wealth.


Gendry's blacksmith master was apparently a good capitalist. As opposed to the Hound who didn't too well in his new venture.
 
2013-06-18 06:43:28 PM  

blatz514: Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed

Agreed!

Except mine is NSFW


I'll drink to dat ass! DAYUM!

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 06:44:30 PM  

blatz514: Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed

Agreed!

Except mine is NSFW


Holy shiat! I will definitely drink to datazz!

img.fark.net
 
2013-06-18 08:12:43 PM  
 
2013-06-18 08:44:32 PM  

illannoyin: Englebert Slaptyback: Because the premise in TFA is complete bollocks, I propose we turn this into a Daenarys thread.

[www.locomag.com image 850x474]


pic is borrowed

NSFW Link

Those of you making GOT political should be cockpunched. Politics has ruined everything else leave GOT alone.


GoT doesn't mesh well with real-world politics -every last one of them, by our standards, is conservative enough to make a Tea Partier faint- but politics is nevertheless at the heart of the series. What is the game of thrones, if not politics?
 
2013-06-18 09:31:31 PM  
Thread may still contain spoilers.
 
2013-06-18 09:58:12 PM  

Millennium: What is the game of thrones, if not politics?


It's a lot of different things and the unique combination is arguably the driver of its success -- to a lot of people it's something they've never read/watched before.  But if we set aside the negative connotations for the moment and try to apply the most objective discription of what this story is, by percentage of content it's really more a soap opera than anything else.  The only real connection (if one can call it that) most of the cast has with common people is that they're nobles; what goes on is really beyond the people's control and they're not organizing their own revolutions so as far as the plot's concerned they're as relevant as the landscape.  "The people are suffering" is as much flavor text as "the tapestries were grand yet old and covered with dust".  So the story's mostly about the twists and turns of the cast's fortunes as they scheme, betray and kill one another.  At any given moment there's a lot of complexity to the current situation, there's certainly a lot of intrigue as the action progresses from one scene to the next and characters come and go because it's one hell of a meatgrinder.  However, the overall political situation is static to the point of irrelevant.  It certainly matters to characters A, B and C that character X is alive, character Y is dead and character Z is missing, but after 4000 pages (and a rather large house-cleaning) there isn't much indication that Westeros is progressing toward any sort of politically stable endgame unless Dany and/or the zombies sweep through and render 90% of what everyone watched/read up to that point entirely meaningless.
 
2013-06-18 10:07:35 PM  
Articles like TFA really illustrate how different liberal and conservative world views are.  It's actually downright frightening to me how vastly different conservative and progressive perceptions are, but it makes sense in regards to how difficult it is to get through to each other.  From a liberal point of view it is always comical to see that the conservatives see themselves as righteous and honorable when their actions seem to consistently conflict with this idea.  That isn't to imply that all liberal/progressive politicians are righteous and honorable either, but they are a lot closer in most their actions than current conservative politicians.

This was cute though.  I say that in the most patronizing way possible because it was so far removed from reality that it's hard to even take remotely seriously.
 
2013-06-18 10:59:58 PM  

PillsHere: Articles like TFA really illustrate how different liberal and conservative world views are.  It's actually downright frightening to me how vastly different conservative and progressive perceptions are, but it makes sense in regards to how difficult it is to get through to each other.  From a liberal point of view it is always comical to see that the conservatives see themselves as righteous and honorable when their actions seem to consistently conflict with this idea.  That isn't to imply that all liberal/progressive politicians are righteous and honorable either, but they are a lot closer in most their actions than current conservative politicians.

This was cute though.  I say that in the most patronizing way possible because it was so far removed from reality that it's hard to even take remotely seriously.


I like the way the story contrasts the different people with different ideas. We think we know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Then we learn that things aren't that simple. All of the groups think they are right and there are good characters and evil characters on all sides.
 
2013-06-19 07:48:49 AM  

badhatharry: We think we know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Then we learn that things aren't that simple.


That people still find this some sort of mind-blowing revelation. . . sigh.  Right, so what exactly about Joffrey makes him a complex character with a rich diversity of shades-of-gray morality?  Or Ramsay?  I really don't see much nuance at all here.  Maybe those are unfair examples, though I would like the concession that GRRM sometimes makes unquestionably one-dimensional characters.

I suppose we're really talking about characters like Melisandre, whose "evil" gets reinvented later as ruthless pragmatism.  Or maybe even Tywin, who's given a backstory to explain why he's such an asshole -- that's a pretty common trick, actually.  Here's where I have a different complaint:  Stop confusing character re-invention with depth.  I saw the same shiat with Evangelion and it wasn't character depth then, either.  Characters don't become "deep" just because they're deconstructed or reinvented.  Frankly, it's entirely too easy to get away with that when moral relativism is all the rage these days.

That's not to say GRRM's characters lack depth in general, but many of his characters aren't complex so much as inconsistent or sold dishonestly.  The former is a cheap way to add faux complexity; the latter can work as a plot device from time to time but deconstruction and reinvention aren't depth.  Now, I'm sure people are going to interpret this as some sort of blanket accusation that GRRM's characters are all cardboard cutouts, but I'm not saying depth isn't there.  It is in some cases, but the disappointing aspect of that is that GRRM's clearly capable of much better because in many cases he does much better.  But the depth he adds is NOT in the whole "gray morality" schlock that today's pop culture can't stop slobbering over like a two-buck hooker on a city councilman's pecker.  There are good people and bad people in real life, and it's adding genuine depth to that that's a real writing challenge.  Reinventing a character is as artistic as adding "complexity" to a $2 bowl from Wal-mart by chipping it.
 
2013-06-19 08:46:03 AM  

dragonchild: badhatharry: We think we know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Then we learn that things aren't that simple.

That people still find this some sort of mind-blowing revelation. . . sigh.  Right, so what exactly about Joffrey makes him a complex character with a rich diversity of shades-of-gray morality?  Or Ramsay?  I really don't see much nuance at all here.  Maybe those are unfair examples, though I would like the concession that GRRM sometimes makes unquestionably one-dimensional characters.

I suppose we're really talking about characters like Melisandre, whose "evil" gets reinvented later as ruthless pragmatism.  Or maybe even Tywin, who's given a backstory to explain why he's such an asshole -- that's a pretty common trick, actually.  Here's where I have a different complaint:  Stop confusing character re-invention with depth.  I saw the same shiat with Evangelion and it wasn't character depth then, either.  Characters don't become "deep" just because they're deconstructed or reinvented.  Frankly, it's entirely too easy to get away with that when moral relativism is all the rage these days.

That's not to say GRRM's characters lack depth in general, but many of his characters aren't complex so much as inconsistent or sold dishonestly.  The former is a cheap way to add faux complexity; the latter can work as a plot device from time to time but deconstruction and reinvention aren't depth.  Now, I'm sure people are going to interpret this as some sort of blanket accusation that GRRM's characters are all cardboard cutouts, but I'm not saying depth isn't there.  It is in some cases, but the disappointing aspect of that is that GRRM's clearly capable of much better because in many cases he does much better.  But the depth he adds is NOT in the whole "gray morality" schlock that today's pop culture can't stop slobbering over like a two-buck hooker on a city councilman's pecker.  There are good people and bad people in real life, and it's adding genuine ...


Joffrey and Ramsay are clearly just evil. One is a Lannister and one is a Stark bannerman. Jaime seems to be reinvented but he has no excuse for pushing Bran.

 I was thinking of the Night's Watch vs the Wildlings. Or Melisandre. Or the Hound. I don't think they have been reinvented. We have just learned about who they really are.
 
2013-06-19 09:36:10 AM  

badhatharry: I don't think they have been reinvented. We have just learned about who they really are.


That is reinvention, and while it can be a clever plot trick, it's not depth.

One of the most effective uses of reinvention is the movie The Usual Suspects and the identity of Keyser Söze.  From a movie plot standpoint, it's an awesome whodunit that's the main driver of the suspense (if you don't know/predict the ending) or character tension (even if you know what happens).  But from a character standpoint Keyser is established as a ruthless psychopath from the start, and nothing happens over the course of the movie to contradict that.  Once his identity is revealed it's apparent everything he's done up to that point was just a ruse, so the character in the end is as one-dimensional as any Disney flick.  Note this isn't an insult to the quality of the work, per se.  There's nothing wrong with Keyser being a one-dimensional monster because that's really the point.  I think it's excellent storytelling, and similarly, if GRRM is getting all sorts of mileage out of his crypto-bastards that's fine too.  Where I draw the line is when people start praising his moral relativism as some sort of character depth or complexity.  Melisandre is not a complex character just because GRRM pulled a bait-and-switch and retroactively changed the context of her actions.  It makes the plot complex, but the character was just re-invented.

As for the Hound. . . OK he's not "good" or "evil", but he's such a stereotypical disillusioned alcoholic mercenary that if you gave him a flak vest and assault rifle with an under-barrel chainsaw and threw him into Gears of War he'd be totally invisible and probably even find Nirvana.  The guy's "shades of gray" dudebro morality has been done a gazillion times in FPS video games.  I don't find him complex because I identify with him all too readily if I turn my brain off and inject myself with refined testosterone.

Incidentally GRRM probably (and perhaps even accidentally) develops the most depth in his least likeable "good" ones like Robb Stark.  His decisions, good or bad, largely follow from a very human mix of tangible family influences, his own emotions and lack of experience.  That makes him a (mentally) weak and sometimes downright aggravating character, but you can see how his decisions are the result of a tragically convoluted, frothing mixture of inner conflict as he tries to apply his clearly incomplete knowledge of the world in ways that consider both his own and others' expectations.  It's a doomed venture from the start -- he's obviously in way over his head -- but it's one of the more interesting stories within the overall narrative.  He's not reinvented or deconstructed.  He is, however, betrayed and killed off.
 
2013-06-19 10:14:26 AM  

Klivian: theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.

Her answer to every problem is "fark you, I got dragons"

Sounds like Neocons to me


She's also forcing people to accept her Westerosi belief system, whether they like it or not, because she believe it's the morally superior lifestyle.

Neo-con!
 
2013-06-19 12:32:26 PM  

theorellior: She is? She tries to protect the Meereen from the landed powerbase, and is always looking out for the downtrodden. "Neocon" is not something I'd remotely associate with Daenerys Targareyn.


Yeah, this list is bullshiat.  She resembles nothing of today's political landscape at all.  With the combo of rapidly acquired wisdom and clever use of her might, care for the powerless & children, she resembles more of the old-school Democrats (FDR, Kennedy, Johnson) -- the ones with balls, wiles & compassion to get the right stuff done.
 
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