If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(USA Today)   New book raises alarms about alternative medicine, makes anti-vaxxers seem sane   (usatoday.com) divider line 29
    More: Scary, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Paul Offit, Arthur Caplan, Langone Medical Center, Deepak Chopra, Lyme, herbalism, shopping bags  
•       •       •

3801 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Jun 2013 at 10:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-06-18 01:06:26 PM
3 votes:
I'm tired of all the advertising that "alternative medicines" are able to do without having to prove that their product actually does anything.  Big Pharma sucks, but at least they generally have to prove effectiveness.
2013-06-18 11:18:50 AM
3 votes:

FarkinHostile: 38,329 people died of drug overdoses in the United States in 2010


Awwwww, that's cute. You mingled illicit and prescription drugs in the same statistics. How wonderfully dishonest of you.

FarkinHostile: How many died from wearing quartz?


The same number that got better from it. Actually, I'd imagine that, while low, through indirect incidents some number greater than zero actually died which means more than got better, but whatever.

FarkinHostile: That was my point


You don't have a point. You can either try to do something that works or you can sit around with your thumb in your ass doing something that's guaranteed not to. You've chosen to defend the latter on the basis that the former isn't perfect so you're a useless crapsack as far as I'm concerned.
2013-06-18 10:12:37 AM
3 votes:
The hypocrisy of people decrying "Big Pharma" while enabling modern-day snake oil salesmen to live a better life than most doctors is breathtaking.  Sort of like decrying the elitist limousine libruls while enabling a single pastor to have five Ferraris "for the Lord".
2013-06-18 10:09:09 AM
3 votes:
With the crazy cost of healthcare it's no surprise that more folks are trying out grandma's home remedies.
2013-06-18 09:50:41 AM
3 votes:
Let's see here, vaccines don't work, but this stuff does.  They won't listen to their doctor's advice, but they have no problem believing a schook with a bottle of water and pocket of crystals.  And they won't go to a specialist for the migranes that they've been having, but they think that they'll add ten years to their life by sleeping on a magnet pillow.

i218.photobucket.com

We're wasting our time.
2013-06-18 12:43:44 PM
2 votes:
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

What alternative medicine in my house looks like
2013-06-18 10:53:29 AM
2 votes:

FarkinHostile: I've never had a friend overdose and die from wearing rose crystals or Acupuncture.

Put 2 in the ground last year from pills. 44 and 41 years old.


Get smarter friends.
2013-06-18 10:46:49 AM
2 votes:

IlGreven: The hypocrisy of people decrying "Big Pharma" while enabling modern-day snake oil salesmen to live a better life than most doctors is breathtaking.  Sort of like decrying the elitist limousine libruls while enabling a single pastor to have five Ferraris "for the Lord".



I've never had a friend overdose and die from wearing rose crystals or Acupuncture.

Put 2 in the ground last year from pills. 44 and 41 years old.
2013-06-18 10:12:15 AM
2 votes:

KawaiiNot: With the crazy cost of healthcare it's no surprise that more folks are trying out grandma's home remedies.


You see, this is what I was thinking as well. But then the article says the ALTERNATIVE medicines are bilking people's money too. Someone needs to do a cost comparison, because I'm pretty sure that while they are both scams, alternative medicine is cheaper than going to the hospital.
2013-06-18 09:59:03 AM
2 votes:
About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

I really want to be surprised that the number is that high, but I'm kind of not.
2013-06-18 02:48:13 PM
1 votes:

efgeise: I honestly don't get why people think pharmaceutical companies are out to kill them.

This just in guys: A pharmaceutical company won't make money if they purposefully KILL THEIR CUSTOMERS.

I do believe that the pharmaceutical companies do tend to spend less on research for completely curing diseases rather than alleviating symptoms (again, they don't make money if they eliminate the reason for someone having to purchase their stuff), but they aren't out to kill you.


That's why we need to change patent law for pharmaceuticals.

Cure a disease = 80 year patent
Maintenance = 12 year patent
2013-06-18 02:36:41 PM
1 votes:

DeArmondVI: "Medicine" is what works, based on evidence and science. If it doesn't work, it's not medicine. When viewed in that light, "alternative medicine" pretty much means "doesn't work." An alternative to "what works" is a pretty boneheaded approach if a person is ill.


With all due respect, I've suffered from various health problems since I was a wee lass. I've tried just about every FDA-approved medicine I could reasonably afford - all of it prescribed by licensed physicians - and yet here I am, 35+ years later, with the same damn health problems. In my case, obviously "medicine" doesn't always work.

Until science invents a new procedure or medication, I'm pretty much on my own. I don't automatically put my faith in alternative therapies, but I've got nothing to lose in trying some out at this point.
2013-06-18 02:11:39 PM
1 votes:

Vaneshi: Doc Daneeka: Still, doesn't anyone find it bizarre that a store who's main purpose is to sell medicines to make people well, also sells tobacco and junk food?

Yes.  It was one of the eye openers in the 'docurama' "Sicko" (which I know, as which most of his stuff, was biased to hell and back).  In the US pharmacies sell washing powder and chocolate bars... now I could understand if it was medicated washing powder and such (with addatives or ingredients removed to help with dermatalogical conditions) but Daz and Persil.  Very weird.

I did like the response from the Pharmacist though:  I didn't go to medical school for 8 years to sell you washing powder.



Because if they didn't and were restricted to ONLY pharmaceuticals then somebody nearby would probably be opening someplace to pop in and grab a snack and sundries while you waited  for the pharmacist to fill your order.  You see that's how demand and markets actually work.  If shiat doesn't sell then off to the clearance rack with it, otherwise order some more. It's there because people want it to be.  God forbid you ever see a hospital gift shop.
2013-06-18 01:51:11 PM
1 votes:
Tim Minchin's Storm seems appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U
2013-06-18 01:09:08 PM
1 votes:

mrlewish: legitimate herbal remedy people


That's not a thing.

mrlewish: You get a very large percentage of your drugs from plants and herbs.


Specifically, you get it in the form of medicine which is a tested and regulated concoction of the effective chemicals from those plants and herbs in a concentration and distribution specifically designed for maximum efficacy. Sometimes also in combination with additional chemicals which can further increase the efficacy or reduce undesirable side effects.

i1.cpcache.com
2013-06-18 01:07:20 PM
1 votes:

mrlewish: You get a very large percentage of your drugs from plants and herbs.


Indeed.  No one is saying that "alternative therapies" have no effect.

The problem is that it's impossible to say what kind of physiological effect they have, whether beneficial, harmful, both, or negligble - until they've gone through proper, rigorous, and controlled scientific studies.  The same intensive scrutiny that traditional drugs go through.

Of course, if they did rigorous studies of these herbal remedies, identify the active compound, put it through safety and efficacy studies, determine proper dosing, conduct clinical trials, and find some to be safe and effective - it would no longer be "alternative medicine."  It would be "mainstream medicine."
2013-06-18 12:05:51 PM
1 votes:

DjangoStonereaver: Unfortunately, alternative medicine will never die out thanks to the placebo effect.

It may make them feel subjectively good, but give me hard-science-based medicine every time.


My favorite quote from a college anthropology class I took: "9 times out of 10 whatever is ailing you will go away on its own. This makes it really hard for locals to beleive that modern medicine offers them anything better, given that their shaman has a 90% success rate"
2013-06-18 12:03:30 PM
1 votes:
I don't care what you say about placebos, that shiat works.
2013-06-18 11:43:02 AM
1 votes:

Vaneshi: Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

Now you see this is where things become very airy fairy, when I get a stinker of a head cold I'll make up a bowl of boiling water with some menthol crystals and eucalyptus oil mixed in.  Breath the steam in and it does clear you sinuses up a treat for a bit.    So clearly it works, people have done it for donkey years as well.

But me doing that rather than taking Sudafed or such means I'm using "alternative medicine" in some surveys even though I also use prescribed or OTC medication as and when needed, so the real question is what exactly are we defining as "alternative medicine" that 50% of a nations population are using?  And are 50% of them using these alternatives instead of or as a compliment to normal medicine as it 'can't do any harm and you never know'?


That's not alternative medicine.  Menthol and eucalyptus oil have a known therapeutic effects on respiratory ailments.

Alternative medicine is using a Neti Pot.
2013-06-18 11:42:21 AM
1 votes:
One of my coworkers was diagnosed with leukemia several years ago. Her doctor referred her to a leukemia specialist over in Durham, so off she went to get treatment. Except, the treatment made her hair fall out and she kept getting sick from the dosage. She went online and found some website touting the medicinal properties of some herb or vegetable or something, and she dropped her treatment in favor of eating lots of whatever plant the website recommended. When I asked her why she stopped the treatment, she said "well the plants have the same chemicals in them that the drugs do, only in natural form". Me pointing out that the drugs concentrate that chemical so she didn't have to eat a pound or two of the plant every day didn't stop her; that process was 'artificial' and ruined the beneficial properties of the plant.

Long story short, she's back on chemical treatment for her leukemia after it got worse during the time she stopped taking the drugs.
2013-06-18 11:26:36 AM
1 votes:

What depresses me is walking down the aisle of a damned pharmacy and seeing hundreds of instances of

*these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA

I don't mind the existence of alt-med, but it shouldn't be distributed next to real treatments of any sort.
2013-06-18 11:23:31 AM
1 votes:

FarkinHostile: I've never had a friend overdose and die from wearing rose crystals or Acupuncture.

Put 2 in the ground last year from pills. 44 and 41 years old.


People don't die from lots of things. I probably do hundreds of things every day that kill fewer people every year than prescription medication.

That doesn't make those things useful substitutes for medicine. Lack of physical effect does not equate to effective medicine. Quite the opposite.
2013-06-18 11:06:42 AM
1 votes:

Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine


Now you see this is where things become very airy fairy, when I get a stinker of a head cold I'll make up a bowl of boiling water with some menthol crystals and eucalyptus oil mixed in.  Breath the steam in and it does clear you sinuses up a treat for a bit.    So clearly it works, people have done it for donkey years as well.

But me doing that rather than taking Sudafed or such means I'm using "alternative medicine" in some surveys even though I also use prescribed or OTC medication as and when needed, so the real question is what exactly are we defining as "alternative medicine" that 50% of a nations population are using?  And are 50% of them using these alternatives instead of or as a compliment to normal medicine as it 'can't do any harm and you never know'?

A lot of these studies/surveys are run as a "if you aren't in group A you must be in group B" affair which isn't very indicative of what is really happening.  I'm not saying there aren't total kooks out there but 50% of Americans exclusively using alternatives in favour of drugs?  You lot are dumb but you aren't quite THAT dumb.

FarkinHostile: I've never had a friend overdose and die from wearing rose crystals or Acupuncture.

Put 2 in the ground last year from pills. 44 and 41 years old.


Please, elaborate.  What exactly would you describe as their mental state prior to the overdose?  Were they happy, easy going and in good spirits or were they depressed?  Keep in mind depressed doesn't mean "a little bit sad" when answering.

Whilst doctors do make mistakes a lot of overdoses are taken by people who are very depressed about what is happening to them, the condition they are dealing with and/or how it is affecting their lives.

I'd agree, people don't die from wearing the rose crystals.  They just die of TB, Cancer, AIDS, Septicaemia and such instead.
2013-06-18 11:04:23 AM
1 votes:

skozlaw: FarkinHostile: I've never had a friend overdose and die from wearing rose crystals or Acupuncture.

Put 2 in the ground last year from pills. 44 and 41 years old.

Get smarter friends.



One of the two was brilliant. Regardless, 38,329 people died of drug overdoses in the United States in 2010. How many died from wearing quartz? Zero.

"First, do no harm." Sound familiar?

Big Pharma is not some innocent victim just doing good while being lied about by hippies as implied by the poster I responded to. Not by a long shot. That was my point. Knowing how much damage pharmaceuticals can do, it's not crazy to seek other treatments first before running to farking pills, even if it's just something triggering the placebo effect.  It least that wont cause your kidneys to shut down, or suffocate in your sleep.
2013-06-18 10:54:08 AM
1 votes:

Pontious Pilates: I'm just thinking of the stuff you can pick up in the crunchy, granola medicine sections of high end grocery stores and health food places, etc. Rose hips, St. John's Wort, Eel Farts, etc, etc, etc... Mixed in with all that crazy stuff are some pretty commonly accepted "alternative" therapies. I don't think "alternative" necessarily means a doctor would never advise you to take it.


Overall, the scientific evidence supports the effectiveness of St. John's wort in mild-to-moderate major depression. It's been prescribed by doctors in Germany for over 50 years.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/st-johns-wort/NS_patient-stjohnswor t


I wouldn't put it  in the same category as Eel farts. More like opium to treat pain. In other words, it works.
2013-06-18 10:52:52 AM
1 votes:

Pontious Pilates: I don't think "alternative" necessarily means a doctor would never advise you to take it.


Some of those things actually do have medical effects. There's two problems there, though:

1. Dumb people use them to self-treat things they self-diagnosed. If you're not willing to change your own oil because you're not a mechanic, why the dick-flying fark would you try to fix your own body when you're not a doctor?

2. Just because eye of newt might have "an effect" on some condition doesn't mean there aren't actual medicines that have a bigger, quicker and safer effect.

Lots of medicines are derived from herbs and vegetables and whatnot. The difference between the medicine and the bullshiat is that one has been carefully measured and combined with other ingredients to achieve maximum affect and minimum downside while the other one is just some retard rubbing poison ivy in his eyeballs.
2013-06-18 10:40:40 AM
1 votes:

Slaxl: Pontious Pilates: EatHam: Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

I really want to be surprised that the number is that high, but I'm kind of not.

I wonder what they're counting there.  I mean, does giving a kid some ginger ale for an upset stomach or a popsicle for a sore throat count?

I bet that counts reasonable, commonly-accepted treatments like a zinc lozenge when you feel a cold coming on, or a drill for when you need to drain the evil spirits out of your head.

Hang on, is zinc "alternative"? I was sneezing like a foo' the other day so went to the pharmacist to get some antihistamines, they also recommended I get some vitamin c with zinc pills to help stave off a cold. I'd be most perturbed if it turned out that zinc hasn't been proven to have any effect, and they just sell it because alternative medicines have become so popular it's commonly-accepted without proof. When a pharmacist recommends something it had better been proven to work.


I'm just thinking of the stuff you can pick up in the crunchy, granola medicine sections of high end grocery stores and health food places, etc. Rose hips, St. John's Wort, Eel Farts, etc, etc, etc... Mixed in with all that crazy stuff are some pretty commonly accepted "alternative" therapies. I don't think "alternative" necessarily means a doctor would never advise you to take it.
2013-06-18 10:31:26 AM
1 votes:

Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

I really want to be surprised that the number is that high, but I'm kind of not.


I suspect they're including stuff like drinking green tea because it's an anti-oxidant.
2013-06-18 10:29:39 AM
1 votes:

Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

I really want to be surprised that the number is that high, but I'm kind of not.


When my doc (a D.Ph., btw) was helping me get my blood pressure and chemistry (cholesterol & triglycerides and blood sugar) under control last year, she was insistent that I stop taking vitamins during treatment. It wasn't that she disliked them, she said, but that their interactions with prescription are real and not clearly understood or documented, and that for the year or two I'd have to take meds it was better to stay off them.
 
Displayed 29 of 29 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report