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(USA Today)   New book raises alarms about alternative medicine, makes anti-vaxxers seem sane   (usatoday.com) divider line 112
    More: Scary, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Paul Offit, Arthur Caplan, Langone Medical Center, Deepak Chopra, Lyme, herbalism, shopping bags  
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3801 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Jun 2013 at 10:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-18 12:05:24 PM  
Whenever I feel my asthma acting up, I eat something with onions.

Would that count as alternative medicine?

Sure, I still keep my inhaler around, but I prefer not to use it.
 
2013-06-18 12:05:51 PM  

DjangoStonereaver: Unfortunately, alternative medicine will never die out thanks to the placebo effect.

It may make them feel subjectively good, but give me hard-science-based medicine every time.


My favorite quote from a college anthropology class I took: "9 times out of 10 whatever is ailing you will go away on its own. This makes it really hard for locals to beleive that modern medicine offers them anything better, given that their shaman has a 90% success rate"
 
2013-06-18 12:11:33 PM  

Vaneshi: meat0918:
That's not alternative medicine.  Menthol and eucalyptus oil have a known therapeutic effects on respiratory ailments.

Alternative medicine is using a Neti Pot.

Actually it IS alternative medicine as it's the raw, unrefined and packaged version (which in this case would be Vick's Vapour Rub or similar) depending on who you talk to and how a survey is conducted.   You and I may not see it as such but that doesn't mean others won't and record it as such.

Which was kinda my point.


Ugh.

I hate ambiguity.
 
2013-06-18 12:16:08 PM  

ikanreed: What depresses me is walking down the aisle of a damned pharmacy and seeing hundreds of instances of

*these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA
I don't mind the existence of alt-med, but it shouldn't be distributed next to real treatments of any sort.


What disturbes me more about American pharmacies is that the medicines are in the back, but in the front by the checkout counter is loads of candy, soda, cigarettes, and other tobacco products.

It's a bizarre dichotomy.  Like the two parts of the pharmacy are at war with each other.

Like going to an AA meeting in the backroom of a liquor store.
 
2013-06-18 12:23:03 PM  

brakiachi: DjangoStonereaver: Unfortunately, alternative medicine will never die out thanks to the placebo effect.

It may make them feel subjectively good, but give me hard-science-based medicine every time.

My favorite quote from a college anthropology class I took: "9 times out of 10 whatever is ailing you will go away on its own. This makes it really hard for locals to beleive that modern medicine offers them anything better, given that their shaman has a 90% success rate"


I wish Fark had a 'Like' button.  I am so stealing this.
 
2013-06-18 12:26:01 PM  

FarkinHostile: IlGreven: The hypocrisy of people decrying "Big Pharma" while enabling modern-day snake oil salesmen to live a better life than most doctors is breathtaking.  Sort of like decrying the elitist limousine libruls while enabling a single pastor to have five Ferraris "for the Lord".


I've never had a friend overdose and die from wearing rose crystals or Acupuncture.

Put 2 in the ground last year from pills. 44 and 41 years old.


Did your friends take the pills as their doctor prescribed?  If not, it sounds like it's their fault they are in the ground.
 
2013-06-18 12:28:58 PM  

Slaxl: Hang on, is zinc "alternative"? I was sneezing like a foo' the other day so went to the pharmacist to get some antihistamines, they also recommended I get some vitamin c with zinc pills to help stave off a cold. I'd be most perturbed if it turned out that zinc hasn't been proven to have any effect, and they just sell it because alternative medicines have become so popular it's commonly-accepted without proof. When a pharmacist recommends something it had better been proven to work.


zinc has some clinical studies that show it can help shorten the duration of a cold. its small, but why not? as others have mentioned, i wonder what alternative means in this context. i will use various "home" remedys for minor stuff rather than take a pill, but they are usually backed by some sort of scientific reasoning.
 
2013-06-18 12:40:55 PM  
imageshack.us
 
2013-06-18 12:43:26 PM  

Doc Daneeka: What disturbes me more about American pharmacies is that the medicines are in the back, but in the front by the checkout counter is loads of candy, soda, cigarettes, and other tobacco products. It's a bizarre dichotomy.


Stores are always organized with high-margin items being the easiest to access, and the actual reason the customers go there the least.

America's legacy is tasking our brightest minds in psychology to cure mental illnesses blur the line between sociopathy and efficiency.
 
2013-06-18 12:43:44 PM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

What alternative medicine in my house looks like
 
2013-06-18 12:47:18 PM  

deanis: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 275x183]

What alternative medicine in my house looks like


Well... you should be safe from scurvy and malaria, at least.
 
2013-06-18 12:53:38 PM  

dragonchild: Doc Daneeka: What disturbes me more about American pharmacies is that the medicines are in the back, but in the front by the checkout counter is loads of candy, soda, cigarettes, and other tobacco products. It's a bizarre dichotomy.

Stores are always organized with high-margin items being the easiest to access, and the actual reason the customers go there the least.

America's legacy is tasking our brightest minds in psychology to cure mental illnesses blur the line between sociopathy and efficiency.


Still, doesn't anyone find it bizarre that a store who's main purpose is to sell medicines to make people well, also sells tobacco and junk food?
 
2013-06-18 12:57:56 PM  

meat0918: Why aren't we doing it for medicine? Is it hubris?


For one thing, and this is just a guess, I'd think that culinary careers draw more "artistic" and people-oriented people while medicine draws people who are more analytical. The doctor's job is primarily to analyze all the symptoms and craft a solution while the chef's job is to present an attractive and enjoyable meal. Almost anybody can feed themselves, they need a chef to do it in a fun way, not just to get the sustenance. Not everybody can cure their own cancer, however. They need a doctor because the alternative is death.

Personally, I don't have a problem with that, especially considering other deficiencies we have in our health system right now. If a person has every opportunity to partake of the available information and care and still chooses not to, let them die. In a day and age when so many other people have done so much work for them and they still can't manage to survive, they probably shouldn't survive. I'd rather worry about moving on to trying to help the next person than putting on a dog and pony show for them so they don't go off and stuff "healing" crystals up their nose and bay leaves in their bunghole instead of going for their dialysis.

If you're too stupid to survive in a world where everybody else did all the work for you, just go die. There are far more deserving people for your place in line anyway.
 
2013-06-18 12:59:54 PM  
Interesting how the article seems to group the legitimate herbal remedy people into the same group as the "crystal healing" nut jobs.  Yes herbs do work much of the time for the right malady. No not cancer and stuff like that but for stomach upset, aches and pains, etc.

You get a very large percentage of your drugs from plants and herbs.


AcetyldigoxinCardiotonicDigitalis lanata (Grecian foxglove, woolly foxglove)AdonisideCardiotonicAdonis vernalis (pheasant's eye, red chamomile)AescinAntiinflammatoryAesculus hippocastanum (horse chestnut)AesculetinAntidysenteryFrazinus rhychophyllaAgrimopholAnthelminticAgrimonia supatoriaAjmalicineTreatment for circulatory disordersRauvolfia sepentinaAllantoinVulnerarySeveral plantsAllyl isothiocyanateRubefacientBrassica nigra (black mustard)AnabesineSkeletal muscle relaxantAnabasis sphyllaAndrographolideTreatment for baccillary dysenteryAndrographis paniculataAnisodamineAnticholinergicAnisodus tanguticusAnisodineAnticholinergicAnisodus tanguticusArecolineAnthelminticAreca catechu (betel nut palm)AsiaticosideVulneraryCentella asiatica (gotu cola)AtropineAnticholinergicAtropa belladonna (deadly nightshade)Benzyl benzoateScabicideSeveral plantsBerberineTreatment for bacillary dysenteryBerberis vulgaris (common barberry)BergeninAntitussiveArdisia japonica (marlberry)Betulinic acidAnticancerousBetula alba (common birch)BorneolAntipyretic, analgesic, antiinflammatorySeveral plantsBromelainAntiinflammatory, proteolyticAnanas comosus (pineapple)CaffeineCNS stimulantCamellia sinensis (tea, also coffee, cocoa and other plants)CamphorRubefacientCinnamomum camphora (camphor tree)CamptothecinAnticancerousCamptotheca acuminata(+)-CatechinHemostaticPotentilla fragarioidesChymopapainProteolytic, mucolyticCarica papaya (papaya)CissampelineSkeletal muscle relaxantCissampelos pareira (velvet leaf)CocaineLocal anaestheticErythroxylum coca (coca plant)CodeineAnalgesic, antitussivePapaver somniferum (poppy)Colchiceine amideAntitumor agentColchicum autumnale (autumn crocus)ColchicineAntitumor, antigoutColchicum autumnale (autumn crocus)ConvallatoxinCardiotonicConvallaria majalis (lily-of-the-valley)CurcuminCholereticCurcuma longa (turmeric)CynarinCholereticCynara scolymus (artichoke)DanthronLaxativeCassia speciesDemecolcineAntitumor agentColchicum autumnale (autumn crocus)DeserpidineAntihypertensive, tranquilizerRauvolfia canescensDeslanosideCardiotonicDigitalis lanata (Grecian foxglove, woolly foxglove)L-DopaAnti-parkinsonismMucuna species (nescafe, cowage, velvetbean)DigitalinCardiotonicDigitalis purpurea (purple foxglove)DigitoxinCardiotonicDigitalis purpurea (purple foxglove)DigoxinCardiotonicDigitalis purpurea (purple or common foxglove)EmetineAmoebicide, emeticCephaelis ipecacuanhaEphedrineSympathomimetic, antihistamineEphedra sinica (ephedra, ma huang)EtoposideAntitumor agentPodophyllum peltatum (mayapple)GalanthamineCholinesterase inhibitorLycoris squamigera (magic lily, resurrection lily, naked lady)GitalinCardiotonicDigitalis purpurea (purple or common foxglove)GlaucarubinAmoebicideSimarouba glauca (paradise tree)GlaucineAntitussiveGlaucium flavum (yellow hornpoppy, horned poppy, sea poppy)GlasiovineAntidepressantOctea glazioviiGlycyrrhizinSweetener, treatment for Addison's diseaseGlycyrrhiza glabra (licorice)GossypolMale contraceptiveGossypium species (cotton)HemsleyadinTreatment for bacillary dysenteryHemsleya amabilisHesperidinTreatment for capillary fragilityCitrus species (e.g., oranges)HydrastineHemostatic, astringentHydrastis canadensis (goldenseal)HyoscyamineAnticholinergicHyoscyamus niger (black henbane, stinking nightshade, henpin)IrinotecanAnticancer, antitumor agentCamptotheca acuminataKaibic acudAscaricideDigenea simplex (wireweed)KawainTranquilizerPiper methysticum (kava kava)KheltinBronchodilatorAmmi visagaLanatosides A, B, CCardiotonicDigitalis lanata (Grecian foxglove, woolly foxglove)LapacholAnticancer, antitumorTabebuia species (trumpet tree)a-LobelineSmoking deterrant, respiratory stimulantLobelia inflata (Indian tobacco)MentholRubefacientMentha species (mint)Methyl salicylateRubefacientGaultheria procumbens (wintergreen)MonocrotalineTopical antitumor agentCrotalaria sessilifloraMorphineAnalgesicPapaver somniferum (poppy)NeoandrographolideTreatment of dysenteryAndrographis paniculataNicotineInsecticideNicotiana tabacum (tobacco)Nordihydroguaiaretic acidAntioxidantLarrea divaricata (creosote bush)NoscapineAntitussivePapaver somniferum (poppy)OuabainCardiotonicStrophanthus gratus (ouabain tree)PachycarpineOxytocicSophora pschycarpaPalmatineAntipyretic, detoxicantCoptis japonica (Chinese goldenthread, goldthread, Huang-Lia)PapainProteolytic, mucolyticCarica papaya (papaya)PapavarineSmooth muscle relaxantPapaver somniferum (opium poppy, common poppy)PhyllodulcinSweetenerHydrangea macrophylla (bigleaf hydrangea, French hydrangea)PhysostigmineCholinesterase inhibitorPhysostigma venenosum (Calabar bean)PicrotoxinAnalepticAnamirta cocculus (fish berry)PilocarpineParasympathomimeticPilocarpus jaborandi (jaborandi, Indian hemp)PinitolExpectorantSeveral plants (e.g., bougainvillea)PodophyllotoxinAntitumor, anticancer agentPodophyllum peltatum (mayapple)Protoveratrines A, BAntihypertensivesVeratrum album (white false hellebore)PseudoephredrineSympathomimeticEphedra sinica (ephedra, ma huang)nor-pseudoephedrineSympathomimeticEphedra sinica (ephedra, ma huang)QuinidineAntiarrhythmicCinchona ledgeriana (quinine tree)QuinineAntimalarial, antipyreticCinchona ledgeriana (quinine tree)Qulsqualic acidAnthelminticQuisqualis indica (Rangoon creeper, drunken sailor)RescinnamineAntihypertensive, tranquilizerRauvolfia serpentinaReserpineAntihypertensive, tranquilizerRauvolfia serpentinaRhomitoxinAntihypertensive, tranquilizerRhododendron molle (rhododendron)RorifoneAntitussiveRorippa indicaRotenonePiscicide, InsecticideLonchocarpus nicouRotundineAnalagesic, sedative, traquilizerStephania sinicaRutinTreatment for capillary fragilityCitrus species (e.g., orange, grapefruit)SalicinAnalgesicSalix alba (white willow)SanguinarineDental plaque inhibitorSanguinaria canadensis (bloodroot)SantoninAscaricideArtemisia maritma (wormwood)Scillarin ACardiotonicUrginea maritima (squill)ScopolamineSedativeDatura species (e.g., Jimsonweed)Sennosides A, BLaxativeCassia species (cinnamon)SilymarinAntihepatotoxicSilybum marianum (milk thistle)SparteineOxytocicCytisus scoparius (scotch broom)SteviosideSweetenerStevia rebaudiana (stevia)StrychnineCNS stimulantStrychnos nux-vomica (poison nut tree)TaxolAntitumor agentTaxus brevifolia (Pacific yew)TeniposideAntitumor agentPodophyllum peltatum (mayapple or mandrake)a-Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)Antiemetic, decreases occular tensionCannabis sativa (marijuana)TetrahydropalmatineAnalgesic, sedative, tranquilizerCorydalis ambiguaTetrandrineAntihypertensiveStephania tetrandraTheobromineDiuretic, vasodilatorTheobroma cacao (cocoa)TheophyllineDiuretic, bronchodilatorTheobroma cacao and others (cocoa, tea)ThymolTopical antifungalThymus vulgaris (thyme)TopotecanAntitumor, anticancer agentCamptotheca acuminataTrichosanthinAbortifacientTrichosanthes kirilowii (snake gourd)TubocurarineSkeletal muscle relaxantChondodendron tomentosum (curare vine)ValapotriatesSedativeValeriana officinalis (valerian)VasicineCerebral stimulantVinca minor (periwinkle)VinblastineAntitumor, Antileukemic agentCatharanthus roseus (Madagascar periwinkle)VincristineAntitumor, Antileukemic agentCatharanthus roseus (Madagascar periwinkle)YohimbineAphrodisiacPausinystalia yohimbe (yohimbe)YuanhuacineAbortifacientDaphne genkwa (lilac)YuanhuadineAbortifacientDaphne genkwa (lilac)
 
2013-06-18 01:06:26 PM  
I'm tired of all the advertising that "alternative medicines" are able to do without having to prove that their product actually does anything.  Big Pharma sucks, but at least they generally have to prove effectiveness.
 
2013-06-18 01:07:20 PM  

mrlewish: You get a very large percentage of your drugs from plants and herbs.


Indeed.  No one is saying that "alternative therapies" have no effect.

The problem is that it's impossible to say what kind of physiological effect they have, whether beneficial, harmful, both, or negligble - until they've gone through proper, rigorous, and controlled scientific studies.  The same intensive scrutiny that traditional drugs go through.

Of course, if they did rigorous studies of these herbal remedies, identify the active compound, put it through safety and efficacy studies, determine proper dosing, conduct clinical trials, and find some to be safe and effective - it would no longer be "alternative medicine."  It would be "mainstream medicine."
 
2013-06-18 01:09:08 PM  

mrlewish: legitimate herbal remedy people


That's not a thing.

mrlewish: You get a very large percentage of your drugs from plants and herbs.


Specifically, you get it in the form of medicine which is a tested and regulated concoction of the effective chemicals from those plants and herbs in a concentration and distribution specifically designed for maximum efficacy. Sometimes also in combination with additional chemicals which can further increase the efficacy or reduce undesirable side effects.

i1.cpcache.com
 
2013-06-18 01:09:50 PM  
I wonder which big pharma company paid for this book.
 
2013-06-18 01:29:25 PM  

Archie Goodwin: Nurglitch: Elixirs and liniments are still cool though, right?

Snake Oil is where it's at.

Guaranteed.


to do nothing


Oil of wintergreen does wonders for relieving muscle pains
Eating hot peppers will relieve nasal congestion
A strong hot toddy, a hot shower and an electric blanket (aka self induced fever) will whip a cold's ass
Clove oil will numb a toothache right now.  It works on minor cuts and burns too

Yeah, snake oil.
 
2013-06-18 01:36:22 PM  
Meh, if people are stupid enough to trust placebos and snake oil peddlers, let them die.
 
2013-06-18 01:37:27 PM  

Slaxl: Pontious Pilates: EatHam: Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

I really want to be surprised that the number is that high, but I'm kind of not.

I wonder what they're counting there.  I mean, does giving a kid some ginger ale for an upset stomach or a popsicle for a sore throat count?

I bet that counts reasonable, commonly-accepted treatments like a zinc lozenge when you feel a cold coming on, or a drill for when you need to drain the evil spirits out of your head.

Hang on, is zinc "alternative"? I was sneezing like a foo' the other day so went to the pharmacist to get some antihistamines, they also recommended I get some vitamin c with zinc pills to help stave off a cold. I'd be most perturbed if it turned out that zinc hasn't been proven to have any effect, and they just sell it because alternative medicines have become so popular it's commonly-accepted without proof. When a pharmacist recommends something it had better been proven to work.


Vitamin C does nothing.  Zinc might do a little (Singh M, Das RR. (2011). "Zinc for the common cold". In Singh, Meenu. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2 (2): CD001364. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD001364.pub3. PMID 21328251. )
 
2013-06-18 01:39:54 PM  
dragonchild:  Big Pharma has also paid out numerous settlements because they knew their products didn't work AND killed people and bribed the FDA to approve it anyway.

[Citation Needed]
 
2013-06-18 01:42:16 PM  

deanis: What alternative medicine in my house looks like


Well, if you're dumb enough to water down very expensive gin, then you must be dumb enough to believe every snake oil purveyor you meet.
 
2013-06-18 01:46:40 PM  
I know a guy who has spent the last 6 months trying to treat his wife's MS and arthritis with alternative diets and "medicine."  He's finally allowing her to take the medications the doctors have been trying to put her on that he's refused.

So, this crap doesn't surprise me at all.
 
2013-06-18 01:50:33 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Still, doesn't anyone find it bizarre that a store who's main purpose is to sell medicines to make people well, also sells tobacco and junk food?


Yes.  It was one of the eye openers in the 'docurama' "Sicko" (which I know, as which most of his stuff, was biased to hell and back).  In the US pharmacies sell washing powder and chocolate bars... now I could understand if it was medicated washing powder and such (with addatives or ingredients removed to help with dermatalogical conditions) but Daz and Persil.  Very weird.

I did like the response from the Pharmacist though:  I didn't go to medical school for 8 years to sell you washing powder.
 
2013-06-18 01:51:11 PM  
Tim Minchin's Storm seems appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U
 
2013-06-18 01:55:12 PM  
"Medicine" is what works, based on evidence and science. If it doesn't work, it's not medicine. When viewed in that light, "alternative medicine" pretty much means "doesn't work." An alternative to "what works" is a pretty boneheaded approach if a person is ill.

As a side note, homeopathy may be one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard of people believing in.
 
2013-06-18 02:04:35 PM  

DeArmondVI: "Medicine" is what works, based on evidence and science. If it doesn't work, it's not medicine. When viewed in that light, "alternative medicine" pretty much means "doesn't work." An alternative to "what works" is a pretty boneheaded approach if a person is ill.

As a side note, homeopathy may be one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard of people believing in.


I know I could make a decent amount of change if I sold homeopathic remedies around here.

Except I'd get in trouble with the Homeopath's certification and the licensing board of the state.

First step to getting rid of homeopathy is to get the states to stop recognizing it and classifying it with doctors and nurses.
 
2013-06-18 02:11:39 PM  

Vaneshi: Doc Daneeka: Still, doesn't anyone find it bizarre that a store who's main purpose is to sell medicines to make people well, also sells tobacco and junk food?

Yes.  It was one of the eye openers in the 'docurama' "Sicko" (which I know, as which most of his stuff, was biased to hell and back).  In the US pharmacies sell washing powder and chocolate bars... now I could understand if it was medicated washing powder and such (with addatives or ingredients removed to help with dermatalogical conditions) but Daz and Persil.  Very weird.

I did like the response from the Pharmacist though:  I didn't go to medical school for 8 years to sell you washing powder.



Because if they didn't and were restricted to ONLY pharmaceuticals then somebody nearby would probably be opening someplace to pop in and grab a snack and sundries while you waited  for the pharmacist to fill your order.  You see that's how demand and markets actually work.  If shiat doesn't sell then off to the clearance rack with it, otherwise order some more. It's there because people want it to be.  God forbid you ever see a hospital gift shop.
 
2013-06-18 02:20:32 PM  

deanis: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 275x183]

What alternative medicine in my house looks like


Fights heart disease, malaria, and scurvy.  Nothing wrong with that.
 
2013-06-18 02:22:12 PM  

lilbjorn: I wonder which big pharma company paid for this book.


Well, certainly not the ones who are producing your herbal remedies.  Which is most of them.
 
2013-06-18 02:22:48 PM  

question_dj: I know a guy who has spent the last 6 months trying to treat his wife's MS and arthritis with alternative diets and "medicine."  He's finally allowing her to take the medications the doctors have been trying to put her on that he's refused.


Without knowing this guy's story personally, I can't make a real judgement call on his behavior. If the alt. diet & 'medicine' consisted of veggies/vitamins he was going to buy at the grocery store anyway - and if the prescribed medications were going to cost more than his mortgage/electric/car payment - can you really fault someone for trying less expensive 'alternative medicine' in that case?
 
2013-06-18 02:24:54 PM  

jack21221: Tim Minchin's Storm seems appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U


meat0918: DeArmondVI: "Medicine" is what works, based on evidence and science. If it doesn't work, it's not medicine. When viewed in that light, "alternative medicine" pretty much means "doesn't work." An alternative to "what works" is a pretty boneheaded approach if a person is ill.

As a side note, homeopathy may be one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard of people believing in.

I know I could make a decent amount of change if I sold homeopathic remedies around here.

Except I'd get in trouble with the Homeopath's certification and the licensing board of the state.

First step to getting rid of homeopathy is to get the states to stop recognizing it and classifying it with doctors and nurses.


Wait, how do you license a homeopath?
 
2013-06-18 02:25:15 PM  

Intrepid00: Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

I really want to be surprised that the number is that high, but I'm kind of not.

A lot of is probably stupid people going to a chiropractor and detox bullshiat.


I wonder if it includes people that self medicate with OTC vitamin supplements? (as opposed to when advised due to a measured/expected deficiency by a doctor ro whatever)
 
2013-06-18 02:26:41 PM  

Intrepid00: Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

I really want to be surprised that the number is that high, but I'm kind of not.

A lot of is probably stupid people going to a chiropractor and detox bullshiat.


I could see a chiropractor as being useful for short-term relief of back or neck pain.
 
2013-06-18 02:30:48 PM  

Sybarite: About 50% of Americans use alternative medicine

I really want to be surprised that the number is that high, but I'm kind of not.


Given that "alternative medicine" = "everything not given to you by an allopathic doctor", that sounds about right.
 
2013-06-18 02:36:41 PM  

DeArmondVI: "Medicine" is what works, based on evidence and science. If it doesn't work, it's not medicine. When viewed in that light, "alternative medicine" pretty much means "doesn't work." An alternative to "what works" is a pretty boneheaded approach if a person is ill.


With all due respect, I've suffered from various health problems since I was a wee lass. I've tried just about every FDA-approved medicine I could reasonably afford - all of it prescribed by licensed physicians - and yet here I am, 35+ years later, with the same damn health problems. In my case, obviously "medicine" doesn't always work.

Until science invents a new procedure or medication, I'm pretty much on my own. I don't automatically put my faith in alternative therapies, but I've got nothing to lose in trying some out at this point.
 
2013-06-18 02:39:06 PM  

meanmutton: jack21221: Tim Minchin's Storm seems appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

meat0918: DeArmondVI: "Medicine" is what works, based on evidence and science. If it doesn't work, it's not medicine. When viewed in that light, "alternative medicine" pretty much means "doesn't work." An alternative to "what works" is a pretty boneheaded approach if a person is ill.

As a side note, homeopathy may be one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard of people believing in.

I know I could make a decent amount of change if I sold homeopathic remedies around here.

Except I'd get in trouble with the Homeopath's certification and the licensing board of the state.

First step to getting rid of homeopathy is to get the states to stop recognizing it and classifying it with doctors and nurses.

Wait, how do you license a homeopath?


Homeopathy is considered valid medicine under US law and is regulated by the FDA.
 
2013-06-18 02:45:26 PM  
I honestly don't get why people think pharmaceutical companies are out to kill them.

This just in guys: A pharmaceutical company won't make money if they purposefully KILL THEIR CUSTOMERS.

I do believe that the pharmaceutical companies do tend to spend less on research for completely curing diseases rather than alleviating symptoms (again, they don't make money if they eliminate the reason for someone having to purchase their stuff), but they aren't out to kill you.
 
2013-06-18 02:48:13 PM  

efgeise: I honestly don't get why people think pharmaceutical companies are out to kill them.

This just in guys: A pharmaceutical company won't make money if they purposefully KILL THEIR CUSTOMERS.

I do believe that the pharmaceutical companies do tend to spend less on research for completely curing diseases rather than alleviating symptoms (again, they don't make money if they eliminate the reason for someone having to purchase their stuff), but they aren't out to kill you.


That's why we need to change patent law for pharmaceuticals.

Cure a disease = 80 year patent
Maintenance = 12 year patent
 
2013-06-18 03:05:31 PM  
Doctors need to put their feet down about this crap. If you think you know better than medical professionals, stay home and die however seems best.
 
2013-06-18 03:21:48 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: Vaneshi: Doc Daneeka: Still, doesn't anyone find it bizarre that a store who's main purpose is to sell medicines to make people well, also sells tobacco and junk food?

Yes.  It was one of the eye openers in the 'docurama' "Sicko" (which I know, as which most of his stuff, was biased to hell and back).  In the US pharmacies sell washing powder and chocolate bars... now I could understand if it was medicated washing powder and such (with addatives or ingredients removed to help with dermatalogical conditions) but Daz and Persil.  Very weird.

I did like the response from the Pharmacist though:  I didn't go to medical school for 8 years to sell you washing powder.


Because if they didn't and were restricted to ONLY pharmaceuticals then somebody nearby would probably be opening someplace to pop in and grab a snack and sundries while you waited  for the pharmacist to fill your order.  You see that's how demand and markets actually work.  If shiat doesn't sell then off to the clearance rack with it, otherwise order some more. It's there because people want it to be.  God forbid you ever see a hospital gift shop.


Does the hospital gift shop sell cigarettes?

No, of course not.  That's completely at odds with their mission as a hospital.

The same should hold true of pharmacies.
 
2013-06-18 03:24:01 PM  

dragonchild: Actually EatHam's question is extremely important, and your mocking dismissal of it isn't helping. Big Pharma and Alternative Kooks both have agendas to make each other look bad, and whereas I've heard the stories about some kid dying because the parents tried homeopathy instead of taking the kid to the damned ER, Big Pharma has also paid out numerous settlements because they knew their products didn't work AND killed people and bribed the FDA to approve it anyway.



Yes, it's all because of me that Granny's home remedies aren't respected by Big Pharma and their hired poisoners. It's all a part of my diabolical scheme.
I'm going after her homebaked cookies, next.


/mwa-ha-ha
 
2013-06-18 03:26:24 PM  

FrancoFile: efgeise: I honestly don't get why people think pharmaceutical companies are out to kill them.

This just in guys: A pharmaceutical company won't make money if they purposefully KILL THEIR CUSTOMERS.

I do believe that the pharmaceutical companies do tend to spend less on research for completely curing diseases rather than alleviating symptoms (again, they don't make money if they eliminate the reason for someone having to purchase their stuff), but they aren't out to kill you.

That's why we need to change patent law for pharmaceuticals.

Cure a disease = 80 year patent
Maintenance = 12 year patent


The biggest problem is that we've cured the easy things.  We've got all sorts of vaccines, antibiotics, anti-fungals, creams and gels and such for killing parasites, etc.  The things that are left -- cancers and Alzheimer's and genetic diseases and heart disease and organ failure -- are really, really hard to fix and relatively easy to assist.
 
2013-06-18 03:29:54 PM  
www.biography.com

Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?
 
2013-06-18 03:40:42 PM  
Marijuana is the cure!
 
2013-06-18 03:59:30 PM  

efgeise: I honestly don't get why people think pharmaceutical companies are out to kill them.

This just in guys: A pharmaceutical company won't make money if they purposefully KILL THEIR CUSTOMERS.

I do believe that the pharmaceutical companies do tend to spend less on research for completely curing diseases rather than alleviating symptoms (again, they don't make money if they eliminate the reason for someone having to purchase their stuff), but they aren't out to kill you.


I know this is a popular belief, but its completely ridiculous.  If a pharma came up with a cure for a common and serious disease, they would be all over it.  It would give them a huge competitive advantage.

The reason why cures are rare is that a lot of human diseases (cancers, degenerative diseases, auto-immune diseases, etc.) are farking complicated and much of the underlying biology is still being worked out.
 
2013-06-18 04:02:52 PM  
PainInTheASP [TotalFark]
2013-06-18 09:50:41 AM


Let's see here, vaccines don't work, but this stuff does. They won't listen to their doctor's advice, but they have no problem believing a schook with a bottle of water and pocket of crystals. And they won't go to a specialist for the migranes that they've been having, but they think that they'll add ten years to their life by sleeping on a magnet pillow.

Well why would they trust doctors? The left has been preaching that those evil men are in it just to get rich and sell prescriptions.
 
2013-06-18 04:08:39 PM  
Meh. This is a problem that solves itself.

upload.wikimedia.org

/a mercury enema will cure all your ills
//forever
 
2013-06-18 04:21:19 PM  

FarkinHostile: One of the two was brilliant. Regardless, 38,329 people died of drug overdoses in the United States in 2010. How many died from wearing quartz? Zero.


32,000 died from car accidents:  http://www.nhtsa.gov/PR/NHTSA-05-11

I guess we should all stop driving because some people die, right?  Since that's apparently the only metric of efficacy.  And if you want to split hairs, tons of people die from wearing quartz.  Not because it kills them directly, but because by putting their faith in stupid superstitious they allow themselves to die from preventable causes.  Even someone as brilliant as Steve Jobs.  

Big Pharma is not some innocent victim just doing good while being lied about by hippies as implied by the poster I responded to. Not by a long shot. That was my point. Knowing how much damage pharmaceuticals can do, it's not crazy to seek other treatments first before running to farking pills, even if it's just something triggering the placebo effect.  It least that wont cause your kidneys to shut down, or suffocate in your sleep.

Big Pharma is a Big Business, like all other businesses.  No, they don't care about you the consumer.  Nor does any other business.  But there's no money in killing one's customers.  When you consider how many billions of prescriptions there are each year, 30,000 deaths is trivial.  Especially since most of those deaths are from abuse and misuse, not from legitimate reactions to the regiment.  But by all means, let's ignore reality and focus on irrelevant statistics to be scary.
 
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