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(The New York Times)   Dear Mr. Snowden, please only leak what we like you to leak. Thanks, NYT   (takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 131
    More: Fail, NYT, South China Morning Post, domestic spying, internet traffic, G-20, NSA  
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3037 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Jun 2013 at 9:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-18 09:39:40 AM
What did you expect from a newspaper is not receiving those leaked documents first and exclusively?
 
2013-06-18 09:50:59 AM
I get their point I guess, don't we all, almost all, accept that our nation would spy on our geopolitical rivals?
 
2013-06-18 09:52:35 AM
That whole part about the US and it's allies spying on each other isn't exactly a secret. I guess it's just not polite to say it publicly or something.
 
2013-06-18 09:53:17 AM
Just how much classified information did this guy take?
 
2013-06-18 09:55:43 AM
it appears Snowden learned nothing form Bradley Manning. I suppose in the next few weeks we'll read something about Snowden dies in tragic accident. Eaten by sharks maybe?
 
2013-06-18 09:56:07 AM

hinten: What did you expect from a newspaper is not receiving those leaked documents first and exclusively?


Apparently, he considered it but went to the Guardian when the NYT suppressed the reporting of previous whistleblower documents.
 
2013-06-18 09:56:39 AM
I like Bill Maher's take -- his stripper girlfriend was crazy and this was the only way he could think of to break up with her.
 
2013-06-18 09:56:46 AM
And once again another news story casually leaves out the "with warrant"
 
2013-06-18 10:00:43 AM
Here's what I don't get...

A lot of members of the media are actively trying to vilify him, call him a traitor, etc. for doing what they themselves would LOVE to do.  If Snowden leaks the info, he's a bad, terrible, EVIL person who should be publicly executed. But if Snowden had approached a reporter and gave him the info to pass on to whatever news source they worked for?  That reporter would be considered a frigging god among his peers.
 
2013-06-18 10:01:16 AM

Corvus: And once again another news story casually leaves out the "with warrant"


I am pretty sure the NSA does not need a warrant to listen to conversations happening between two foreign nationals when they are both off of US soil.
 
2013-06-18 10:02:26 AM

Corvus: And once again another news story casually leaves out the "with warrant"


It might have been helpful to add that bit of information about rubber stamped warrants but I don't think it would change the story much.
 
2013-06-18 10:03:37 AM

ModernPrimitive01: it appears Snowden learned nothing form Bradley Manning. I suppose in the next few weeks we'll read something about Snowden dies in tragic accident. Eaten by sharks maybe?


What happened to Manning is exactly why Snowden took off for Hong Kong. Further whistle blowers will also likely flee the country rather than sit for a year in solitary confinement.
 
2013-06-18 10:05:35 AM

LeoffDaGrate: Here's what I don't get...

A lot of members of the media are actively trying to vilify him, call him a traitor, etc. for doing what they themselves would LOVE to do.  If Snowden leaks the info, he's a bad, terrible, EVIL person who should be publicly executed. But if Snowden had approached a reporter and gave him the info to pass on to whatever news source they worked for?  That reporter would be considered a frigging god among his peers.


Disagree; politicians are calling him a traitor.  The media generally is describing him as a whistle blower and criminal.  Because that's what he is.
 
2013-06-18 10:07:08 AM
Quick, refute this paragraph. The fate of the country rests in your hands.

The leaks showed how the intelligence community had used the cover of secrecy to expand and abuse its domestic surveillance powers, surprising even people who had written the post-9/11 laws on which these powers were supposed to be based.
 
2013-06-18 10:07:59 AM
I'm still astonished that this leaking is anything but a non-story.  I mean, we knew during W's term that all of this was being done.  We Liberals protested and complained, we screamed about W ignoring the FISA courts and doing ti all illegally.  And we were told by the "liberal" media that everything was perfectly fine, no crimes here, no impeaching.

So fast-forward a few years and we find out that Obama is spying LEGALLY by going through Congress and FISA, and that their spying program centers around recording phone numbers and Email Addresses (not content) looking for connections to known terrorists before content is read, WITH A WARRANT.  Suddenly spying is evil to the exact same people who defended illegal spying ona  greater magnitude with literally zero oversight only a few short years ago.

So I find myself not giving a rat's ass about Snowden and his followers, despite me still thinking that our anti-terror spying is stupid and way over-the-top.  Snowden found a way to blame Obama for everything, even programs dating back years before his presidency, and he should not be rewarded for this.
 
2013-06-18 10:08:25 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-06-18 10:10:50 AM

Cletus C.: Quick, refute this paragraph. The fate of the country rests in your hands.

The leaks showed how the intelligence community had used the cover of secrecy to expand and abuse its domestic surveillance powers, surprising even people who had written the post-9/11 laws on which these powers were supposed to be based.


There is the niggling call that they abused the domestic surveillance power.  I have yet to hear where they used the information granted to them to be used in an unlawful or unjust manner, surely that is the gate upon which to judge abuse of power.

? Refuted ?
 
2013-06-18 10:11:50 AM

Cletus C.: Quick, refute this paragraph. The fate of the country rests in your hands.

The leaks showed how the intelligence community had used the cover of secrecy to expand and abuse its domestic surveillance powers, surprising even people who had written the post-9/11 laws on which these powers were supposed to be based.


Easily - the people who wrote the post-9/11 laws weren't surprised. THEY WERE THE ONES WHO SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED IT.
 
2013-06-18 10:12:42 AM

hasty ambush: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x500]


So what is the point of that picture?

-That the MRC finally realized that it was wrong when it didn't say anything about these same tactics happening under Bush?

or

-That it's only wrong when the President spying on people is a Democrat?
 
2013-06-18 10:13:40 AM

ModernPrimitive01: it appears Snowden learned nothing form Bradley Manning. I suppose in the next few weeks we'll read something about Snowden dies in tragic accident. Eaten by sharks maybe?


More likely, he did laundry for the Swedish Bikini Team and used too much starch. Sweden wants him extradicted for that felony.

cdn-w.sneakhype.com
 
2013-06-18 10:14:28 AM
When I was just a small boy, living over in England, this was predominantly in my life.

bradanovic.loganmedia.com

It's the 'Elephant Cage', the AN/FLR-9 Wullenweber antenna array. Part of the Iron Horse HF direction finding network. The site operated as a SIGINT collection site throughout the Second World War, intercepting German traffic and passing the resulting material to Bletchley Park. This just did the intercepting part a lot better. They could locate high frequency broadcasts anywhere on the planet with the network of these things. And you can read the instruction manual for it online.

The government is listening in? But how can that be, it's unheard of!!
 
2013-06-18 10:15:03 AM

RexTalionis: Cletus C.: Quick, refute this paragraph. The fate of the country rests in your hands.

The leaks showed how the intelligence community had used the cover of secrecy to expand and abuse its domestic surveillance powers, surprising even people who had written the post-9/11 laws on which these powers were supposed to be based.

Easily - the people who wrote the post-9/11 laws weren't surprised. THEY WERE THE ONES WHO SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED IT.


Did they "expand and abuse" their powers? That seems like a real sensitive subject.
 
2013-06-18 10:15:44 AM

hasty ambush: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x500]


Well there's your problem. He was the only one running for POTUS for a 2006 election.
 
2013-06-18 10:17:29 AM

Insaniteus: I'm still astonished that this leaking is anything but a non-story.  I mean, we knew during W's term that all of this was being done.  We Liberals protested and complained, we screamed about W ignoring the FISA courts and doing ti all illegally.  And we were told by the "liberal" media that everything was perfectly fine, no crimes here, no impeaching.

So fast-forward a few years and we find out that Obama is spying LEGALLY by going through Congress and FISA, and that their spying program centers around recording phone numbers and Email Addresses (not content) looking for connections to known terrorists before content is read, WITH A WARRANT.  Suddenly spying is evil to the exact same people who defended illegal spying ona  greater magnitude with literally zero oversight only a few short years ago.

So I find myself not giving a rat's ass about Snowden and his followers, despite me still thinking that our anti-terror spying is stupid and way over-the-top.  Snowden found a way to blame Obama for everything, even programs dating back years before his presidency, and he should not be rewarded for this.


The "story" is that A: it's being done under a democrat, B: NSA provided official confirmation it's being done, C: it's actually  legal, and D: the companies themselves are prohibited, by law, from even admitting that the government's doing it!

Americans seem to be perfectly fine with the idea that foreigners are spied upon.  They are not as OK with the idea that the NSA is following their every footprint, without warrant (or with paper-thin rubber stamp warrants).
 
2013-06-18 10:19:01 AM
He's a RON PAUL supporter that just wants to undermine the state by any means necessary, and it's clearly something that should disqualify anyone from top secret clearance.   What I can't figure out is why he thinks China of all places is the ally to do it.
 
2013-06-18 10:19:12 AM
My reaction to the news that we were spying on delegates to the G20 was "If that's the next big revelation from his documents, then there must not be a whole lot of revelations in his documents".

It's beginning to look like Snowden overplayed his hand.

Also, what Insaniteus said, above.  With the caveat that the only reason why we were told nothing illegal was being done by Bush is that Congress waved its magic wand and made it legal, ex post facto.
 
2013-06-18 10:20:03 AM

Insaniteus: I'm still astonished that this leaking is anything but a non-story.  I mean, we knew during W's term that all of this was being done.  We Liberals protested and complained, we screamed about W ignoring the FISA courts and doing ti all illegally.  And we were told by the "liberal" media that everything was perfectly fine, no crimes here, no impeaching.

So fast-forward a few years and we find out that Obama is spying LEGALLY by going through Congress and FISA, and that their spying program centers around recording phone numbers and Email Addresses (not content) looking for connections to known terrorists before content is read, WITH A WARRANT.  Suddenly spying is evil to the exact same people who defended illegal spying ona  greater magnitude with literally zero oversight only a few short years ago.

So I find myself not giving a rat's ass about Snowden and his followers, despite me still thinking that our anti-terror spying is stupid and way over-the-top.  Snowden found a way to blame Obama for everything, even programs dating back years before his presidency, and he should not be rewarded for this.


I agree.  I got mildly annoyed by this years ago and just don't care now because since then I assumed it was still happening.  What I don't get is why nobody complains that google uses the content of our emails to feed advertisements, but when the government does the same thing to try to protect us suddenly it's horrible.

Snowden just strikes me as someone who wants to be an internet celebrity and conspiracy-theory teenagers/college students have flocked to him as expected.

I suppose I'm just getting old...
 
2013-06-18 10:20:11 AM

Corvus: And once again another news story casually leaves out the "with warrant"


Obama Administration Defends Warrantless Wiretapping
 
2013-06-18 10:21:37 AM

Skleenar: My reaction to the news that we were spying on delegates to the G20 was "If that's the next big revelation from his documents, then there must not be a whole lot of revelations in his documents".

It's beginning to look like Snowden overplayed his hand.

Also, what Insaniteus said, above.  With the caveat that the only reason why we were told nothing illegal was being done by Bush is that Congress waved its magic wand and made it legal, ex post facto.


I wasn't too impressed with the first revelation about the NSA.

My reaction was "Wait...didn't we know about this 7 years ago?"

I think Snowden has delusions of grandeur. It makes it hard to sympathize with him every time I see him talk on TV or in the paper.
 
2013-06-18 10:22:29 AM
Does this make him a traitor now or is he still a hero to the American people?
 
2013-06-18 10:22:36 AM
This guy is like every RON PAUL "libertarian" I "know" on Facebook: driven by ideology to a fault, only able to understand the consequences of his actions as they relate to his own life, paranoid, smug, and completely ignorant of how the federal government actually works.  No, the government isn't going to murder you with a drone.  No, the President can't just shut down Gitmo and end the NSA programs by himself.  No, quoting four words from the Constitution doesn't make you an expert.  I sympathize with releasing the information on NSA programs, which we already knew about years ago and conveniently forgot, but you need to slow your roll with the whole spying on China and Russia thing, bro.  Oh, and thanks for taking that 6-figure salary for years before your conscience suddenly got in the way.
 
2013-06-18 10:25:02 AM

cousin-merle: This guy is like every RON PAUL "libertarian" I "know" on Facebook: driven by ideology to a fault, only able to understand the consequences of his actions as they relate to his own life, paranoid, smug, and completely ignorant of how the federal government actually works.  No, the government isn't going to murder you with a drone.  No, the President can't just shut down Gitmo and end the NSA programs by himself.  No, quoting four words from the Constitution doesn't make you an expert.  I sympathize with releasing the information on NSA programs, which we already knew about years ago and conveniently forgot, but you need to slow your roll with the whole spying on China and Russia thing, bro.  Oh, and thanks for taking that 6-figure salary for years before your conscience suddenly got in the way.


Dude, that's every idealist, period.
 
2013-06-18 10:25:21 AM

ManateeGag: Does this make him a traitor now or is he still a hero to the American people?


I don't know of situation where a man ran off with two laptops of govt spy info, to take refuge with the Chinese, would be considered patriotic but I'm guessing some out there are buying it.
 
2013-06-18 10:28:35 AM

hasty ambush: Corvus: And once again another news story casually leaves out the "with warrant"

Obama Administration Defends Warrantless Wiretapping


Not to put too fine a point on it, but that article was from July of 2009.  Oh, and also
 
2013-06-18 10:30:46 AM
The only thing Snowden is doing now is making Bradley Manning look like a bad-ass. They both committed treason, but at least Manning had the balls to stay where he was and not run away to an enemy for protection.
 
2013-06-18 10:31:51 AM

hasty ambush: Obama Administration Defends Warrantless Wiretapping


Defending the government against a lawsuit != defending the program, in the same way defending a client does not mean you condone their actions, it just means the administration doesn't want to be on the hook for things done in the previous administration.

ILostMyPassword: What I don't get is why nobody complains that google uses the content of our emails to feed advertisements, but when the government does the same thing to try to protect us suddenly it's horrible.


1) people do complain about that, 2) No one at Google actually reads your E-mail, it's an algorithm (as opposed to NSA, where an analyst can actually read it), 3) government has way more capability to do horrible things with the information than Google.

That being said, the government needs a warrant to read your E-mail, so the comparison is faulty.
 
2013-06-18 10:34:44 AM

nmrsnr: hasty ambush: Obama Administration Defends Warrantless Wiretapping

Defending the government against a lawsuit != defending the program, in the same way defending a client does not mean you condone their actions, it just means the administration doesn't want to be on the hook for things done in the previous administration.

ILostMyPassword: What I don't get is why nobody complains that google uses the content of our emails to feed advertisements, but when the government does the same thing to try to protect us suddenly it's horrible.

1) people do complain about that, 2) No one at Google actually reads your E-mail, it's an algorithm (as opposed to NSA, where an analyst can actually read it), 3) government has way more capability to do horrible things with the information than Google.

That being said, the government needs a warrant to read your E-mail, so the comparison is faulty.


It's been revealed that the warrants are paper-thin and 99.97% of the time, are granted.  By a secret court.  Given that, you can really just just arguing the whole warrant/due process thing - it's lip service.
 
2013-06-18 10:34:54 AM

WTF Indeed: The only thing Snowden is doing now is making Bradley Manning look like a bad-ass. They both committed treason, but at least Manning had the balls to stay where he was and not run away to an enemy for protection.


What makes you think they committed treason?

You do know you can commit a crime involving the US government and secret documents without it being treason, right?
 
2013-06-18 10:35:23 AM

Hobodeluxe: ManateeGag: Does this make him a traitor now or is he still a hero to the American people?

I don't know of situation where a man ran off with two laptops of govt spy info, to take refuge with the Chinese, would be considered patriotic but I'm guessing some out there are buying it.


but he's uncovering truth, and violations of the constitution...or he would if he had anything more than claims.  Sys admins often don't exactly know the specifics of the information contained on their systems much of the time.  So apparently, when they see it, they think they can be famous, and do things like run off to Hong Kong, and think they can get amnesty from closely allied countries...
 
2013-06-18 10:37:53 AM

Mrtraveler01: My reaction was "Wait...didn't we know about this 7 years ago?"


This was my reaction, too, to which people seem to respond with "but we didn't know Obama was doing it." Which seems silly to me. People somehow equated the end of the warrantless wiretapping program in 2006 (to be replaced with a warranted wiretapping program in the 2008 FISA Amendments act), with a complete cessation of quasi-domestic surveillance. I really can't tell you why.
 
2013-06-18 10:40:07 AM

nmrsnr: Mrtraveler01: My reaction was "Wait...didn't we know about this 7 years ago?"

This was my reaction, too, to which people seem to respond with "but we didn't know Obama was doing it." Which seems silly to me. People somehow equated the end of the warrantless wiretapping program in 2006 (to be replaced with a warranted wiretapping program in the 2008 FISA Amendments act), with a complete cessation of quasi-domestic surveillance. I really can't tell you why.


I'm an Obama supporter but even I knew he was doing a piss-poor job at trimming back these sorts of programs.

I agree with Obama on about 90% of his policies, but this is the 10% I don't agree on.
 
2013-06-18 10:40:26 AM

Hobodeluxe: ManateeGag: Does this make him a traitor now or is he still a hero to the American people?

I don't know of situation where a man ran off with two laptops of govt spy info, to take refuge with the Chinese, would be considered patriotic but I'm guessing some out there are buying it.



It's only a matter of time before the Chinese figure out that they can print whatever they want in his name to make us look bad, and we'll paralyze ourselves debating it.  Even if they completely make something up, the only defense the NSA would have would be a flat denial (since you can't prove a negative), and because of the history of secrecy combined with this whole debacle, denying it will likely only make it worse.
 
2013-06-18 10:42:50 AM
Anyone who actually believes that Snowden is deliberately spilling classified secrets to the Chinese military is falling hook/line/sinker for a CIA/NSA BULLSH*T story! It's obviously something put out there and carried by an all-too-eager-to-serve press (remember how they helped Bush gin up America to invade Iraq?) in order to discredit the guy.
 
2013-06-18 10:43:27 AM

cc_rider: That whole part about the US and it's allies spying on each other isn't exactly a secret. I guess it's just not polite to say it publicly or something.


It's been that way forever, and all sides are ok with it.
 
2013-06-18 10:44:05 AM

TV's Vinnie: Anyone who actually believes that Snowden is deliberately spilling classified secrets to the Chinese military is falling hook/line/sinker for a CIA/NSA BULLSH*T story! It's obviously something put out there and carried by an all-too-eager-to-serve press (remember how they helped Bush gin up America to invade Iraq?) in order to discredit the guy.


No, Snowden is an egotistical asshole. He's done a good job of that himself.

Even Julian Assange didn't rub me the wrong way as much as this guy has, and Julian Assange was quite the douche.
 
2013-06-18 10:45:13 AM

TV's Vinnie: Anyone who actually believes that Snowden is deliberately spilling classified secrets to the Chinese military is falling hook/line/sinker for a CIA/NSA BULLSH*T story! It's obviously something put out there and carried by an all-too-eager-to-serve press (remember how they helped Bush gin up America to invade Iraq?) in order to discredit the guy.


Conspiracy theories become more believable if you increase the type size and bold it. Like nothing makes your point better than yelling.
 
2013-06-18 10:48:21 AM

LeoffDaGrate: A lot of members of the media are actively trying to vilify him, call him a traitor, etc. for doing what they themselves would LOVE to do.


As I mentioned above, the media is in lock-step with whomever is in power at the time. They don't care about things like democracy or freedom. They threw all that under the bus ages ago in return for "access", which is just the chance to hang out with the elite. Even Bob "Watergate" Woodward gets on his back and spreads his ass-cheeks open for whomever is the top dog in DC at the time.

These cretins today aren't real journalists. They're just paparazzi.
 
2013-06-18 10:49:50 AM

TV's Vinnie: Anyone who actually believes that Snowden is deliberately spilling classified secrets to the Chinese military is falling hook/line/sinker for a CIA/NSA BULLSH*T story! It's obviously something put out there and carried by an all-too-eager-to-serve press (remember how they helped Bush gin up America to invade Iraq?) in order to discredit the guy.


global3.memecdn.com
 
2013-06-18 10:52:52 AM

TV's Vinnie: Anyone who actually believes that Snowden is deliberately spilling classified secrets to the Chinese military is falling hook/line/sinker for a CIA/NSA BULLSH*T story! It's obviously something put out there and carried by an all-too-eager-to-serve press (remember how they helped Bush gin up America to invade Iraq?) in order to discredit the guy.


So vote Ron Paul!
 
2013-06-18 10:59:36 AM

ILostMyPassword: TV's Vinnie: Anyone who actually believes that Snowden is deliberately spilling classified secrets to the Chinese military is falling hook/line/sinker for a CIA/NSA BULLSH*T story! It's obviously something put out there and carried by an all-too-eager-to-serve press (remember how they helped Bush gin up America to invade Iraq?) in order to discredit the guy.

So vote Ron Paul!


I'm voting for the cat posted above you as it is smarter than most Americans.
 
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