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(Yahoo)   When rioting fails, stand silently. And still get arrested   ( ) divider line
    More: Followup, Turkey, Taksim Square, mass protests  
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5515 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 12:04 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2013-06-18 07:28:33 PM  
It's sad that I assumed they were talking about the US before I clicked.
2013-06-18 08:32:56 PM  
They took a lesson from Gandhi and King. Passive resistance works.

"Resistance" does not mean "symbolic pointless bullshiat". It means actual farking resistance. What most people don't get about Gandhi's march to the sea and spinning was that those sorts of things were banned because selling that shiat was making a ton of money for British assholes. King didn't just march and go on joyrides; they boycotted and strategically tested laws in ways that would force certain sections of the government to come into conflict with other sections.

If anyone wants to organize a boycott or alternative economics, good! Good! Do that! But don't use the FORM of these things and ignore the SUBSTANCE just because you want to FEEL like a heroic bad-ass revolutionary or whatever.

......and absolutely no change to the government he was protesting.

Naw, man, see, he, like, he had the moral high ground, so the Chinese government's heart grew three sizes or something. Plus he's totally getting into Heaven.

Dog Man
Also, the Arab Spring movements and Occupy Wallstreet movements have nothing in common, nothing. Apples and socially oppressed, totalitarian Oranges. One is a protest against socio-economic inequality, the other is a movement for regime change in the face of dictatorial regimes.

Just as in 1968, there is an understanding that totalitarian authoritarianism is the same everywhere qualitatively if not quantitatively, and just as much of an insult.
2013-06-18 09:11:37 PM  

Target Builder: genner: Doesn't always work.......

[ image 850x478]

Possibly the most memorable single person protest action in history that gave rise to an image that defined the government response to the protests that despite the Chinese governments best efforts persists to this day.

That man was dead within the week.
2013-06-18 09:13:48 PM  

King Something: They did make sure their ideas were heard, though, And they made sure that the world knew that they were being arrested for their message and not the delivery of their message.

Really? Because in Philly, even the unions got tired of their schtick and had them moved out so they could start construction on the Dilworth Plaza renovations.

Sympathy lasts until you take food out of someone else's mouth.
2013-06-18 09:15:38 PM  

MBooda: Just "arrested"?


[ image 420x300]

In other news, shooting at cornered National Guardsmen trying to contain a 4-day riot is a poor idea.

\see also Detroit, Watts
2013-06-18 11:21:29 PM  

FrancoFile: Loren: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

Only if the government citizenry cares.  Turkey is going Islamist.

MindStalker: It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Occupy didn't have a chance because they didn't have an objective.  You don't protest for "change"!

1st point - if the law, or its enforcement, is unjust, and the citizenry is shamed by the protesters into admitting/realizing such, then the citizenry forces the government to change.  The Brits ended up being embarrassed by Gandhi; the rest of the US realized how bad the crackers in the South were and forced them to change.

2nd point - exactly.  OWS never said "these 3/4/5 specific, concrete laws are wrong and should be changed".  They protested outcomes, not laws & processes.

1. Occupy^ didn't count on the masses to have attention spans that were too short to hold onto more than three or four sentences or ideas at once,. That was one on their biggest errors.
2. The list of sh*t that needs to be changed is long, and gets longer as one moves from the federal to the state to the county/city level. See (1) for why using such a list was unfeasable.
3. That list, for the most part, could not be dumbed down into bumper stickers and sound bytes. This is because many have history, context and nuance, as would any possible solutions. Again, see (1) for why this did not work.
4. The powers that benefit from the way things are did not want change, and did what they could to prevent it, to the point of using armed officers against peacefully protesting and unarmed civilians on public property. Once again, see (1) for why no one cared.

Simply put, how this nation got this economic clusterf*ck was decades in the making and involves many complicated processes, like a gargantuan knot made from an infinitely long piece of string.  "3/4/5" anything could never cover the whole of what Occupy* was protesting, and was also variable depending on where and who you were. The corporate media did their best to make sure what messages did get out were obfuscated, twisted, lied about, and just plain wrong because the status quo is good for them.

The biggest mistake Occupy* made is to protest for change and then hope that people at the local level would be smart enough to figure out how to do that in their own state/county/city, as those on the ground should have been the best ones to do it. They were wrong, and it cost them.
2013-06-19 01:15:56 AM  
"Occupy" (in quotes because it was supposed to be a tactic, not a brand) was initially supposed to be a massive human blockade of Wall Street, a live DDOS attack to make it impossible to function. Because it was thought up by Adbusters, it was announced for a Saturday.
So when that didn't work, both because only a few thousand people showed up (because "mass" is the opposite of organization, which Adbusters, being Marxists, will never understand), and because it was a Saturday, it sort of turned into an encampment somewhat in the general vicinity of Wall Street. The encampment became a forum. And that's all that Occupy ever was- a forum. There were no demands because "be a place where people can freely discuss ideas that are usually excluded from the public sphere" is not a demand. And it fell apart because people assumed it was supposed to be a political party, or a 'movement', or something other than just a goddamn forum. Which is all we need right now: some way of talking to each other in a way that might actually lead to real organization instead of the asinine mass democracy that people think is the pinnacle of political ideology.
2013-06-19 03:09:15 AM  
2013-06-19 04:38:37 AM  
Getting arrested is the POINT to standing silently.  Civil disobedience only works in civilized countries.
2013-06-19 06:06:28 AM  
what a field day for the heat
a thousand people in the street
singin songs that they carry inside
mostly say hurray for our side
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