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(Yahoo)   When rioting fails, stand silently. And still get arrested   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 60
    More: Followup, Turkey, Taksim Square, mass protests  
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5502 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jun 2013 at 12:04 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



60 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-18 12:06:13 PM  
They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.
 
2013-06-18 12:06:25 PM  
He was coming right at me*BLAM BLAM*
 
2013-06-18 12:06:57 PM  
Approve:

stateofhbcus.files.wordpress.com

/Hot like the food they weren't being served
 
2013-06-18 12:08:07 PM  

Alunan: He was coming right at me*BLAM BLAM*


Relativity arguments.  I mean, really, depending on the perspective of the observer, can we really know that he wasn't moving at him standing still and the other guy wasn't actually just moving his arms and legs with a gun in his hand while being frozen in place?
 
2013-06-18 12:08:13 PM  
At least they weren't tased.
 
2013-06-18 12:08:49 PM  
Did they have tape over their mouths?
 
2013-06-18 12:09:30 PM  

FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.


Yep, it works because just about everyone sees the problem with arresting someone for doing nothing.

With a regular protest it's easy to look at it and say "someone must have provoked that, look at how they were acting".   When the action is doing nothing, everyone understands that if you are arrested it's ONLY because those in power disagree with your message, and THAT is how you get the message out.
 
2013-06-18 12:09:46 PM  
What? No police cars to shiat on?
 
2013-06-18 12:11:22 PM  
This will win the moral high ground.  My bet is if they are committed to this tactic, they will win this uprising and force change upon the government.  Resistance is not futile.

Is it Arab summer, yet?
 
2013-06-18 12:11:50 PM  
I thought this story was going to be about Wisconsin.
 
2013-06-18 12:12:40 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: What? No police cars to shiat on?


Nope. Still plenty of Fark threads for you to shiat on though.
 
2013-06-18 12:13:58 PM  

FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.


I hope.
 
2013-06-18 12:16:08 PM  
The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching
 
2013-06-18 12:18:16 PM  

Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.


It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.
 
2013-06-18 12:26:16 PM  

MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.


Which was?
 
2013-06-18 12:26:39 PM  

Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.


Me too...as long as the powers that be aren't willing to say "the hell with what the world says" and make you disappear.

I guess we'll see...
 
2013-06-18 12:29:02 PM  
 
2013-06-18 12:29:07 PM  

Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?


Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.
 
2013-06-18 12:32:19 PM  

FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.


Lets not forget all those "passive" bombs and bullets Germany started throwing around at exactly the same time Britain just happened to abandon India out of sheer non-violent coincidence.
 
2013-06-18 12:36:11 PM  

Alonjar: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

Lets not forget all those "passive" bombs and bullets Germany started throwing around at exactly the same time Britain just happened to abandon India out of sheer non-violent coincidence.


What?  Is this like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in 1947?
 
2013-06-18 12:38:36 PM  
I like this.  Effective?  Dunno.  But I like this.
 
2013-06-18 12:39:51 PM  

MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.


And that is because the corporate-run media wouldn't let them get their message to the average person.

People who get their news exclusively from TV sources like Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, etc. would never find out that JPM Chase made a huge donation to the NYPD only a couple of hours before they started cracking down on OWS; they'd never know about that one cop in the Oakland  Schutzstaffel regiment that threw a hand grenade at a wounded protester, or that the grenade hit the protester right in the head and put him into a coma for a few days, or that that protester was an Iraq war veteran; they'd never know that Fuhrer Bloomberg gave OWS "ample" warning of less than two minutes to leave the park before the NYPD would "JUST FOLLOW ORDERS" and storm the place, or that this happened at 1:20 AM on a Tuesday, or that the NYPD ordered a media blackout right before this happened, or that nearly every Occupy encampment in the country from Manhattan to Oakland was overrun by cops almost simultaneously (within about 15 minutes of each other), or that DHS had a hand in this bit of unprecedented nationwide police coordination.

And they'd certainly not know that OWS is now technically a debt collection agency that buys credit card debt from other such organizations, nor would they know that OWS is different from all the other debt collection agencies because the Occupiers buy up people's debt for the express purpose of forgiving the debt.
 
2013-06-18 12:41:10 PM  
LOL. "People didn't understand Occupy's message"
 
2013-06-18 12:41:33 PM  

genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.


c1planetsavecom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com
 
2013-06-18 12:41:43 PM  
Doesn't always work.......


i706.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-18 12:42:40 PM  

genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.


If the terms "1%er," "99%er" or "wealth disparity" mean anything to you, then OWS got their message across, despite the cops' and media's best efforts to silence them.
 
2013-06-18 12:42:41 PM  
The first such protest was carried out late Monday by performance artist Erdem Gunduz, who stood for hours at Istanbul's central Taksim Square

Hipster Turkish Ghandi does non-violent civil disobedience ironically.
 
2013-06-18 12:46:42 PM  

Source4leko: [c1planetsavecom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com image 550x508]


I like how the name of that news station is "Action McNews Network."
 
2013-06-18 12:59:45 PM  

genner: Doesn't always work.......


[i706.photobucket.com image 850x478]


Possibly the most memorable single person protest action in history that gave rise to an image that defined the government response to the protests that despite the Chinese governments best efforts persists to this day.
 
2013-06-18 01:01:15 PM  

King Something: genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.

If the terms "1%er," "99%er" or "wealth disparity" mean anything to you, then OWS got their message across, despite the cops' and media's best efforts to silence them.


The problem was no solution was put out there. No political leader to rally behind and no bill to vote for. It was just a bunch of people whinning with no will to change anything.
 
2013-06-18 01:02:25 PM  

Target Builder: genner: Doesn't always work.......


[i706.photobucket.com image 850x478]

Possibly the most memorable single person protest action in history that gave rise to an image that defined the government response to the protests that despite the Chinese governments best efforts persists to this day.


......and absolutely no change to the government he was protesting.
 
2013-06-18 01:02:31 PM  

Magnus: What?  Is this like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in 1947?


Britain pulled out of India immediately following the war because they were broke and didnt have their army anymore, and everyone was just fed up with everything.  They lost their empire as a direct result of the war.  They wouldnt have let India out of their clutches if the war had never happened.
 
2013-06-18 01:04:13 PM  

King Something: genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.

If the terms "1%er," "99%er" or "wealth disparity" mean anything to you, then OWS got their message across, despite the cops' and media's best efforts to silence them.


I know what wealth disparity is.  I studied in my undergrad degree in Economics.  Again, what was the message?
 
2013-06-18 01:12:43 PM  

Alonjar: Magnus: What?  Is this like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in 1947?

Britain pulled out of India immediately following the war because they were broke and didnt have their army anymore, and everyone was just fed up with everything.  They lost their empire as a direct result of the war.  They wouldnt have let India out of their clutches if the war had never happened.


 "Exactly same time" and "immediately following" are not the same.

WWII hastened the split, but you should read more on the history of the split of India from the British empire.  It did not happen as you think it happened.
 
2013-06-18 01:16:18 PM  

genner: King Something: genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.

If the terms "1%er," "99%er" or "wealth disparity" mean anything to you, then OWS got their message across, despite the cops' and media's best efforts to silence them.

The problem was no solution was put out there. No political leader to rally behind and no bill to vote for. It was just a bunch of people whinning with no will to change anything.


They did make sure their ideas were heard, though, And they made sure that the world knew that they were being arrested for their message and not the delivery of their message.

And the fact that their message got across is just a small part of why the very personification of the 1% couldn't buy his way into the White House.

Magnus: King Something: genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.

If the terms "1%er," "99%er" or "wealth disparity" mean anything to you, then OWS got their message across, despite the cops' and media's best efforts to silence them.

I know what wealth disparity is.  I studied in my undergrad degree in Economics.  Again, what was the message?


img.fark.net
The banks that ruined the economy didn't get so much as a slap on the wrist for their actions, while the people who had to get expensive college degrees in order to have a chance to get a job tat pays higher than minimum wage have to get 2 minimum wage jobs just to not die of starvation and still afford to repay those loans.
 
2013-06-18 01:16:51 PM  
Well, they did learn from the US...
 
2013-06-18 01:25:22 PM  

King Something: genner: King Something: genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.

If the terms "1%er," "99%er" or "wealth disparity" mean anything to you, then OWS got their message across, despite the cops' and media's best efforts to silence them.

The problem was no solution was put out there. No political leader to rally behind and no bill to vote for. It was just a bunch of people whinning with no will to change anything.

They did make sure their ideas were heard, though, And they made sure that the world knew that they were being arrested for their message and not the delivery of their message.

And the fact that their message got across is just a small part of why the very personification of the 1% couldn't buy his way into the White House.

Magnus: King Something: genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.

If the terms "1%er," "99%er" or "wealth disparity" mean anything to you, then OWS got their message across, despite the cops' and media's best efforts to silence them.

I know what wealth disparity is.  I studied in my undergrad degree in Economics.  Again, what was the message?

[img.fark.net image 550x508]
The banks that ruined the economy didn't get so much as a slap on the wrist for their actions, while the people who had to get expensive college degrees in order to have a chance to get a job tat pays ...


We don't make jails big enough to hold the HQ building for Bear Stearns, AIG, CountryWide, or Lehman Brothers and it would be silly to put a building in jail, don't you think?
 
2013-06-18 01:49:23 PM  
kubrickfilms.tripod.com
Anyone who runs is a VC
Anyone who stands still, is a well disciplined VC

Ain't war hell.
 
2013-06-18 02:20:26 PM  
What? The cops stopping rioting and got arrested?

/Only in Bizzaro world.

/Lets see who the military obeys next week when they get sent in to stop something something.
//Military is supposed to prevent religious governments from abolishing the Rights of the people.
 
2013-06-18 02:32:54 PM  

Magnus: We don't make jails big enough to hold the HQ building for Bear Stearns, AIG, CountryWide, or Lehman Brothers and it would be silly to put a building in jail, don't you think?


It would be quite silly to attempt to imprison an inanimate edifice of glass and steel.

Do you think it would be equally silly to attempt to imprison (or at least fine) the executives who work at those buildings and who caused, and personally benefited from, the worst economic collapse in almost a century?
 
2013-06-18 03:40:53 PM  
Well yeah... they're loitering. Off to jail with them!
 
2013-06-18 03:44:30 PM  

King Something: Magnus: We don't make jails big enough to hold the HQ building for Bear Stearns, AIG, CountryWide, or Lehman Brothers and it would be silly to put a building in jail, don't you think?

It would be quite silly to attempt to imprison an inanimate edifice of glass and steel.

Do you think it would be equally silly to attempt to imprison (or at least fine) the executives who work at those buildings and who caused, and personally benefited from, the worst economic collapse in almost a century?


Aren't corporations technically people? Why not put them in jail?
 
2013-06-18 04:00:46 PM  
Just "arrested"?

Looxury.

www.tvworthwatching.com
 
2013-06-18 04:03:18 PM  
I saw a short segment about this on CNN. CNN really did their research; they called the guy who started this protest "standing man" without even bothering to find out what his name was. At least the AP could get off their asses to ask a simple question. Isn't journalism supposed to be about the 5 Ws and 1 H?

Also, the Arab Spring movements and Occupy Wallstreet movements have nothing in common, nothing. Apples and socially oppressed, totalitarian Oranges. One is a protest against socio-economic inequality, the other is a movement for regime change in the face of dictatorial regimes.
 
2013-06-18 04:17:22 PM  

Magnus: King Something: genner: Magnus: MindStalker: Sugarbombs: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

I hope.

It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Which was?

Yeah I'm a little fuzzy on that too.

If the terms "1%er," "99%er" or "wealth disparity" mean anything to you, then OWS got their message across, despite the cops' and media's best efforts to silence them.

I know what wealth disparity is.  I studied in my undergrad degree in Economics.  Again, what was the message?


Here you go. The message was (is) not merely that there is wealth disparity, but there is extraordinary disparity, and it's astronomically worse than what the average American believes. The "middle class" is nowhere near the middle anymore. It's way down at the bottom end of the curve.
 
2013-06-18 04:31:51 PM  

FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.


Only if the government cares.  Turkey is going Islamist.

MindStalker: It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.


Occupy didn't have a chance because they didn't have an objective.  You don't protest for "change"!
 
2013-06-18 04:40:39 PM  

Loren: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

Only if the government citizenry cares.  Turkey is going Islamist.

MindStalker: It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Occupy didn't have a chance because they didn't have an objective.  You don't protest for "change"!



1st point - if the law, or its enforcement, is unjust, and the citizenry is shamed by the protesters into admitting/realizing such, then the citizenry forces the government to change.  The Brits ended up being embarrassed by Gandhi; the rest of the US realized how bad the crackers in the South were and forced them to change.

2nd point - exactly.  OWS never said "these 3/4/5 specific, concrete laws are wrong and should be changed".  They protested outcomes, not laws & processes.
 
2013-06-18 05:56:47 PM  
You have to respect a man like that, and the many people that followed: storify-link. Very dusty in here.
 
2013-06-18 06:07:22 PM  

genner: Doesn't always work.......


[i706.photobucket.com image 850x478]


The fact that we're still talking about this guy's enormous platinum nuts 24 years later shows that it actually did work. Slowly, but it did work... China's newer generations will be the first to change the system as the old guard dies off. Time will take care of the rest.
 
2013-06-18 06:19:15 PM  

rewind2846: genner: Doesn't always work.......


[i706.photobucket.com image 850x478]

The fact that we're still talking about this guy's enormous platinum nuts 24 years later shows that it actually did work. Slowly, but it did work... China's newer generations will be the first to change the system as the old guard dies off. Time will take care of the rest.


That's a lot of words that say it's 24 years later and nothings changed.
 
2013-06-18 07:28:33 PM  
It's sad that I assumed they were talking about the US before I clicked.
 
2013-06-18 08:32:56 PM  
FrancoFile
They took a lesson from Gandhi and King. Passive resistance works.

"Resistance" does not mean "symbolic pointless bullshiat". It means actual farking resistance. What most people don't get about Gandhi's march to the sea and spinning was that those sorts of things were banned because selling that shiat was making a ton of money for British assholes. King didn't just march and go on joyrides; they boycotted and strategically tested laws in ways that would force certain sections of the government to come into conflict with other sections.

If anyone wants to organize a boycott or alternative economics, good! Good! Do that! But don't use the FORM of these things and ignore the SUBSTANCE just because you want to FEEL like a heroic bad-ass revolutionary or whatever.


genner
......and absolutely no change to the government he was protesting.

Naw, man, see, he, like, he had the moral high ground, so the Chinese government's heart grew three sizes or something. Plus he's totally getting into Heaven.


Dog Man
Also, the Arab Spring movements and Occupy Wallstreet movements have nothing in common, nothing. Apples and socially oppressed, totalitarian Oranges. One is a protest against socio-economic inequality, the other is a movement for regime change in the face of dictatorial regimes.

Just as in 1968, there is an understanding that totalitarian authoritarianism is the same everywhere qualitatively if not quantitatively, and just as much of an insult.
 
2013-06-18 09:11:37 PM  

Target Builder: genner: Doesn't always work.......


[i706.photobucket.com image 850x478]

Possibly the most memorable single person protest action in history that gave rise to an image that defined the government response to the protests that despite the Chinese governments best efforts persists to this day.


That man was dead within the week.
 
2013-06-18 09:13:48 PM  

King Something: They did make sure their ideas were heard, though, And they made sure that the world knew that they were being arrested for their message and not the delivery of their message.


Really? Because in Philly, even the unions got tired of their schtick and had them moved out so they could start construction on the Dilworth Plaza renovations.

Sympathy lasts until you take food out of someone else's mouth.
 
2013-06-18 09:15:38 PM  

MBooda: Just "arrested"?

Looxury.

[www.tvworthwatching.com image 420x300]


In other news, shooting at cornered National Guardsmen trying to contain a 4-day riot is a poor idea.

\see also Detroit, Watts
 
2013-06-18 11:21:29 PM  

FrancoFile: Loren: FrancoFile: They took a lesson from Gandhi and King.  Passive resistance works.

Only if the government citizenry cares.  Turkey is going Islamist.

MindStalker: It really only works when the message you have is something people care about. The occupy crowd tried passive resistance and it didn't work because the average person didn't care about their message.

Occupy didn't have a chance because they didn't have an objective.  You don't protest for "change"!


1st point - if the law, or its enforcement, is unjust, and the citizenry is shamed by the protesters into admitting/realizing such, then the citizenry forces the government to change.  The Brits ended up being embarrassed by Gandhi; the rest of the US realized how bad the crackers in the South were and forced them to change.

2nd point - exactly.  OWS never said "these 3/4/5 specific, concrete laws are wrong and should be changed".  They protested outcomes, not laws & processes.


1. Occupy^ didn't count on the masses to have attention spans that were too short to hold onto more than three or four sentences or ideas at once,. That was one on their biggest errors.
2. The list of sh*t that needs to be changed is long, and gets longer as one moves from the federal to the state to the county/city level. See (1) for why using such a list was unfeasable.
3. That list, for the most part, could not be dumbed down into bumper stickers and sound bytes. This is because many have history, context and nuance, as would any possible solutions. Again, see (1) for why this did not work.
4. The powers that benefit from the way things are did not want change, and did what they could to prevent it, to the point of using armed officers against peacefully protesting and unarmed civilians on public property. Once again, see (1) for why no one cared.

Simply put, how this nation got this economic clusterf*ck was decades in the making and involves many complicated processes, like a gargantuan knot made from an infinitely long piece of string.  "3/4/5" anything could never cover the whole of what Occupy* was protesting, and was also variable depending on where and who you were. The corporate media did their best to make sure what messages did get out were obfuscated, twisted, lied about, and just plain wrong because the status quo is good for them.

The biggest mistake Occupy* made is to protest for change and then hope that people at the local level would be smart enough to figure out how to do that in their own state/county/city, as those on the ground should have been the best ones to do it. They were wrong, and it cost them.
 
2013-06-19 01:15:56 AM  
"Occupy" (in quotes because it was supposed to be a tactic, not a brand) was initially supposed to be a massive human blockade of Wall Street, a live DDOS attack to make it impossible to function. Because it was thought up by Adbusters, it was announced for a Saturday.
So when that didn't work, both because only a few thousand people showed up (because "mass" is the opposite of organization, which Adbusters, being Marxists, will never understand), and because it was a Saturday, it sort of turned into an encampment somewhat in the general vicinity of Wall Street. The encampment became a forum. And that's all that Occupy ever was- a forum. There were no demands because "be a place where people can freely discuss ideas that are usually excluded from the public sphere" is not a demand. And it fell apart because people assumed it was supposed to be a political party, or a 'movement', or something other than just a goddamn forum. Which is all we need right now: some way of talking to each other in a way that might actually lead to real organization instead of the asinine mass democracy that people think is the pinnacle of political ideology.
 
2013-06-19 03:09:15 AM  
 
2013-06-19 04:38:37 AM  
Getting arrested is the POINT to standing silently.  Civil disobedience only works in civilized countries.
 
2013-06-19 06:06:28 AM  
what a field day for the heat
a thousand people in the street
singin songs that they carry inside
mostly say hurray for our side
 
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