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(Miami Herald)   Obama administration releases list of Guantanamo's 'indefinite detainees', 48 men who will never stand trial nor go free   (miamiherald.com) divider line 30
    More: Scary, Obama, Guantanamo, GUANTANAMO BAY NAVY BASE, Obama administration, Human Rights First, Nashiri, Yale Law School, indefinite detention  
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1996 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jun 2013 at 8:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-06-17 08:46:15 PM
11 votes:

cman: hubiestubert: cman: [johnbardi.edublogs.org image 525x301]

Yes, because Obama should pull out his magical time machine and use his Jedi Mind Trick to cause Bush and Company to NOT use extraordinary rendition and ask for "enemy combatant" status be used on criminals?

It staggers the mind how obtuse and asinine one human can be, nearly 98% of the time. Please, let's make this partisan issue, because THIS list, it hasn't changed since the Bush years. And we've KNOWN that folks will never be able to be released, and have known this for some time, and oddly enough, some of us even realized this as soon as the "enemy combatant" tripe was bandied about, along with extraordinary rendition was used, that this was going to bite us on the ass. This is an issue that was created by a Congress and Administration that was afraid of due process, and now we are going to have to face that we've pooped in our own dog dish, but please, pass the buck along, because that will certainly help folks sleep better at night, instead of attempting to use some tiny modicum of thought.

What bothers me on this issue, is that for years, folks have been ignoring this very point. Again and again, but NOW it is suddenly an issue, and looking to blame someone, they turn to the guy who was left with this stinking pile of kuso, instead of the festering and diseased Shetland pony that shat it out, and left it in Gitmo all this time...

WOW what undue rage

Guess what? I was for the Patriot act originally, but I turned against it in 2006 BEFORE Bush left office.


Then you weren't paying attention when it was floated around, in pieces, long before then. PATRIOT was steaming pile. And that's the problem. It's not a Conservative or Liberal issue, it's the simple fact that blaming THIS President for the staggering stupidity of a Congress and Executive office that had NO idea how pursue folks that they'd gotten files upon and warnings about, time and again, is what is not not undue rage--it is illustrating the exact partisan bullsh*t that removed me from the GOP's ranks, because it's f*cking stupid. It has been about obstructionism for years, and GW's own idiocy and his own obstinacy about listening to anything said to him by anyone who had been appointed by Clinton got us into this mess, along with a terrified and cowed Congress that rubberstamped crap that had been circulating for years in pieces as authoritarian wet dreams, and folks said, "Yeah, let's DO THIS!"

And NOW they're upset about the NSA? NOW folks are upset about trying folks detained at Gitmo and realizing that they CAN'T be? You, simply put, in one single image, everything that has been wrong about this entire situation. From the start.

Had GW put down the partisan bullsh*t for a moment, and realized what he had been warned about, and oddly enough, Franks' policies were instituted a bit late to the game, since we had smoking rubble. I'm sorry, but in a bald faced move to shift attention away from the trainwreck that we've been facing with our justice system, not to mention the economic fallout, the privacy debacles, and the lives destroyed both here and abroad, you don't get to say, "Hey it was just a joke" because it only illustrates the culpability of citizens who've pretty much ignored this, and let it boil over on the backburner for years, and NOW folks want to point fingers? Just admit that you're a partisan hack who hasn't had the stones to think beyond the lines, and get it over with. Just admit that you haven't really thought about much other than My Side/Your Side.

And maybe if we'd been doing that more as a nation, we might not have gotten into this idiocy in the first place. WE did this. Not Obama. Not Bush. Not Cheney. Not Rumsfeld. WE ALL did this, and we are ALL culpable. We allowed this travesty to go forward, and now that we can't really deny what folks have been warning us about for over a f*cking decade, NOW folks want to point fingers?

Point them at yourselves. Point them at all of us, because we let it happened, and a LOT of folks cheered. Congrats. This is the result. Happy? We got EXACTLY what we wanted, and now we don't want it anymore, and we can't take it back.
2013-06-17 08:14:23 PM
11 votes:

djkutch: "Many of the detainees designated for prosecution can only be prosecuted in civilian court," she said. "So unless Congress lifts the restrictions banning their transfer they are effectively 'indefinite detainees.' "

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/17/3456267_p2/foia-suit-reveals-gu a ntanamos.html#storylink=cpy
Hmmm...


Not to mention that their detention and conditions pretty much guarantee that they would be released by any civilian court. They can't be tried here, or rather, if we do attempt to try them here, we essentially just have wait for their attorney to file for their release, and then we send them off, and then let them open up a civil suit for damages.

THIS is what the rush to make these folks "enemy combatants" has done. Not really a legal term, since there is no state of war, no nation state involved, and pretty much, folks declared that jurisprudence and legality were moot, so we have folks in Gitmo, we can't try, we can't let go, and folks cheered when this idiocy was first proposed, and now that the fallout has come around, folks are breaking out their shocked faces.

Had we made this a criminal matter, years ago, we could have them in Florence ADX quietly sitting in cells and going mad, or serving lesser sentences elsewhere, without fanfare, or actually try them and come to the conclusion that they were maybe not horrible folks who thirsted for the blood of innocents, but that's the thing: these folks can't really have a day in court, because the special status and circumstances of their capture and detention violated every damn principle of our legal system, and some of you mouth breathing idiots are STILL cheering this situation on.

Easier to stay out, than get out. And in this case, we could have avoided getting into this mess fairly easily, by simply following our own mandates and procedures. But no, that was boring. That was not EXCITING enough for folks, it didn't sing that we were going to the DANGER ZONE!  Had we just done some halfway decent police work, these cases would be fairly easy to discern, but nope, we mucked it all up, and now we have folks who we can't try, we can't release, and we're on the hook for caring for, and hiding away for the rest of their mortal days, and even China and the former Soviet states must be laughing, because they never apologized for their treatment of dissidents, they never double talked their way into convincing the public that it was for their own good that they flouted their own laws. So, please, O Brave Pioneers, explain to us how this is going to work in our favor in any realm of fashion, and still retain any semblance of honor or dignity?

In order to take the moral high ground, you must actually occupy that territory first, and in this case, where honor and dignity might be preserved, we're pretty much down to ritual suicide, Lambytoes...
2013-06-17 08:13:04 PM
7 votes:
Guantánamo is the most farked up thing we've done against everything we claim to stand for since the Japanese internment camps.
2013-06-17 08:26:13 PM
4 votes:

cman: [johnbardi.edublogs.org image 525x301]


Yes, because Obama should pull out his magical time machine and use his Jedi Mind Trick to cause Bush and Company to NOT use extraordinary rendition and ask for "enemy combatant" status be used on criminals?

It staggers the mind how obtuse and asinine one human can be, nearly 98% of the time. Please, let's make this partisan issue, because THIS list, it hasn't changed since the Bush years. And we've KNOWN that folks will never be able to be released, and have known this for some time, and oddly enough, some of us even realized this as soon as the "enemy combatant" tripe was bandied about, along with extraordinary rendition was used, that this was going to bite us on the ass. This is an issue that was created by a Congress and Administration that was afraid of due process, and now we are going to have to face that we've pooped in our own dog dish, but please, pass the buck along, because that will certainly help folks sleep better at night, instead of attempting to use some tiny modicum of thought.

What bothers me on this issue, is that for years, folks have been ignoring this very point. Again and again, but NOW it is suddenly an issue, and looking to blame someone, they turn to the guy who was left with this stinking pile of kuso, instead of the festering and diseased Shetland pony that shat it out, and left it in Gitmo all this time...
2013-06-17 08:12:02 PM
4 votes:

flucto: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss


Ummm no. The administration has tried to bring them to NYC for trial and the House GOP keeps raping the chicken.
2013-06-17 09:10:58 PM
3 votes:

gadian: You know it was just a couple of days ago that the House voted once again for not allowing the closure of GITMO.  Perhaps, if the members of the House - who, by virtue of shorter terms are more accessible to their constituents and thus more likely to push for what their constituents want - value fair trials for all, they should allow the facility to close and push for trials for every inmate.  I'm sure this legislation will be presented any minute now.  Yep, any minute now.  Huh.  I wonder if the problem is with the House or....the constituents.

Checks and balances are supposed to work.  Don't like indefinite detainees?  Push for change.  Don't stop until there is.  Or you can allow your representatives to keep ignoring you.


I'm waiting for Obama to say "As Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces, I am ordering all military personnel to unlock the cells, and then get on a plane out of Guantanamo. I may not be able to close it, but I can make damn sure that there's nobody there to operate it. Now the base and prisoners are Cuba's problem. Good night, and God Bless America."
2013-06-17 08:38:01 PM
3 votes:

cman: So that means I am automatically a Republican who believes that Obama has a time machine that he used to bring his mom for some unknown reason to Kenya to give birth to him?


No. It just means you are acting like an idiot looking to make a joke. So, you either have a ridiculously bad sense of humor or you are a silly partisan that knee jerks to blaming Obama for no apparent reason whatsoever.
2013-06-17 08:17:39 PM
3 votes:

Mugato: Guantánamo is the most farked up thing we've done against everything we claim to stand for since the Japanese internment camps.


I dunno...I'm sure  My Lai Massacre is up there somewhere.

fusillade762: Way too dangerous to be incarcerated on American soil, what with their scary Muslim supervillain powers.


This is the part that bothers me the most. ADX Florence has been used for terrorists for 20 years.
In fact, I'm pretty sure it has (and currently) housed foreign citizens captured on foreign soil that have been charged/convicted of terrorism.

The bedwetting terror that the GOP has displayed over bringing them to America is only laughable to the point where you realize the real reason is because we tortured these men and they would be released in our court of law.
2013-06-17 07:46:13 PM
3 votes:
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss
2013-06-17 09:00:59 PM
2 votes:

cman: Guess what? I was for the Patriot act originally...


I love how you act like that will surprise anyone.
2013-06-17 08:30:14 PM
2 votes:

cman: WOW what undue rage

Guess what? I was for the Patriot act originally, but I turned against it in 2006 BEFORE Bush left office.


And yet here you are with an idiotic "haha Obama" post.
2013-06-17 08:25:21 PM
2 votes:
Just farking execute them if we're going to keep up with this farce of supposed justice.

This is the same thing only over decades.
2013-06-17 08:14:01 PM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I assume the list includes Lex Luthor, General Zod and Braniac?

/I mean... these must be supercriminals, right?


Yup. Way too dangerous to be incarcerated on American soil, what with their scary Muslim supervillain powers.
2013-06-17 08:12:39 PM
2 votes:

cman: [johnbardi.edublogs.org image 525x301]


The names were assembled because the Obama administration was working to shut down GITMO and, of course, the Obama Administration actually released the names instead of hiding behind national security and ignoring it.

So, I would say this is most definitely change for good. Seeing as how the last Administration captured, tortured, and ignored the rights of these men which put us in this goddamn f*cked up situation to begin with.
2013-06-18 03:50:53 AM
1 votes:
I find it amusing that I've noticed a few people who, in NSA threads, have declared that PRISM makes the US just like Nazi Germany/the USSR, are now advocating executing prisoners without trial.
2013-06-17 09:44:14 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Who gives a shiat if he once supported it? So care more about maintaining some smug sense of superiority rather than seeing more people that originally supported it change their minds and swing the political pendulum


Perhaps if our Beamish Boy hadn't himself been trying to make a smug jape at someone who wasn't responsible for the mess we're in, and who openly admitted that he just simply hadn't thought things through, I might take his opinion a bit better. Instead, it's just the same partisan bullsh*t and dumbasshattery that we keep seeing. "My side!" "Your side!" Nope. WE let this happen, and collectively as a nation, we are going to have to figure something out, but instead, we've got a bunch of folks who simply haven't really thought their clever plans through, again and again, pointing fingers and not really doing much.

Yes. It makes me angry, because it's the same bullsh*t that got us into this mess: better be seen doing something, than something smart. And in the meantime, we're wasting a lot of time, money, and letting a good number of folks get killed because Congresscritters don't want to look stupid, so instead they'll just vote for stupid measures that do very little...
2013-06-17 09:31:59 PM
1 votes:

Bonzo_1116: Phony_Soldier: Farking Bush!

/Oh wait...

Nope, it's the recent congresses that have been too chickenshiat to sign off on moving the detainees to the US for trial.  The Obama administration has had a raging boner to try these guys in court, and congress gave them the finger.  Bush and the cowering post-9/11 congress started this ugly stone down the curling lane, true---but ever since then rightwing assholes have been out there with the little brooms making sure that the stone just keeps going and going because they know what we will find when we actually try these guys in court is going to be bad.  Like a finding a dead skunk under your porch bad.


One internet to you good sir for for a very excellent curling analogy.
2013-06-17 09:24:44 PM
1 votes:
djkutch
I voted for Obama because Romney would have been a disaster I didn't want to experience.

"All tactics and no strategy is noise before defeat" - Sun Tzu
2013-06-17 09:23:21 PM
1 votes:
Bonzo_1116
Nope, it's the recent congresses that have been too chickenshiat to sign off on moving the detainees to the US for trial. The Obama administration has had a raging boner to try these guys in court, and congress gave them the finger.

Then the only remotely Constitutional thing to do would be to release them. That's what happens when people that you just know must be guilty of something can't be brought to trial. They walk.
2013-06-17 09:20:21 PM
1 votes:

cman: [johnbardi.edublogs.org image 525x301]


Hey look! The guy who TRIED TO CLOSE GITMO IN HIS FIRST TERM.

But since this ISN'T a dictatorship, he needs the Legislative Branch to support it, and THAT'S when the narrative began that these men weren't "common" criminals (like the Unabomber, Jeffery Dahmer, Richard Ramirez, Timothy McVeigh et al), but some kind of SUPER TERROR CRIMINALS who would IMMEDIATELY break out and convert all our women to Islamo-Fascism!

/not to make this a partisan issue
2013-06-17 09:16:27 PM
1 votes:

cman: I was for the Patriot act originally


Disgusting.
2013-06-17 09:15:53 PM
1 votes:

Phony_Soldier: Farking Bush!

/Oh wait...


Nope, it's the recent congresses that have been too chickenshiat to sign off on moving the detainees to the US for trial.  The Obama administration has had a raging boner to try these guys in court, and congress gave them the finger.  Bush and the cowering post-9/11 congress started this ugly stone down the curling lane, true---but ever since then rightwing assholes have been out there with the little brooms making sure that the stone just keeps going and going because they know what we will find when we actually try these guys in court is going to be bad.  Like a finding a dead skunk under your porch bad.
2013-06-17 09:13:36 PM
1 votes:

Uzzah: I'm waiting for Obama to say "As Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces, I am ordering all military personnel to unlock the cells, and then get on a plane out of Guantanamo. I may not be able to close it, but I can make damn sure that there's nobody there to operate it. Now the base and prisoners are Cuba's problem. Good night, and God Bless America."


That would be awesome.  I can just imagine the heads exploding from that particular bit of trolling.
2013-06-17 09:02:22 PM
1 votes:
Guantanamo needs to go away, and soon.  Its very existence is an affront to America.
2013-06-17 08:48:05 PM
1 votes:

cman: djkutch: cman: Guess what? I was for the Patriot act originally, but I turned against it in 2006 BEFORE Bush left office.

How very rugged. Who'd you vote? Obama or Romney?

Gary Johnson

How about you?


The rational choice without throwing my vote away. But, I live in Arizona, so really I threw my vote away.

How about the Republicans get behind someone like Gary Johnson? If you voted for him, you're saying the Republicans didn't offer anyone you could consider. He may be a Republican, but the party didn't take him seriously.
2013-06-17 08:35:46 PM
1 votes:
The fact that you people agree with eachother about this travesty, yet bicker at eachother in some retarded missing contest is how this kind of thing happens.
2013-06-17 08:32:10 PM
1 votes:

cman: Guess what? I was for the Patriot act originally, but I turned against it in 2006 BEFORE Bush left office.


How very rugged. Who'd you vote? Obama or Romney?
2013-06-17 07:20:19 PM
1 votes:
I assume the list includes Lex Luthor, General Zod and Braniac?

/I mean... these must be supercriminals, right?
2013-06-17 07:15:35 PM
1 votes:
Yeah America! All those years of not making the "who tortures" list and the "keeps political prisioners" list are behind us!

/see haven't made the "people disappear" list, unless we are that good!
2013-06-17 07:01:49 PM
1 votes:
Send them home. If they try to attack us kill them, if not let them herd goats or whatever if is those people do.
 
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