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(Miami Herald)   Obama administration releases list of Guantanamo's 'indefinite detainees', 48 men who will never stand trial nor go free   (miamiherald.com) divider line 152
    More: Scary, Obama, Guantanamo, GUANTANAMO BAY NAVY BASE, Obama administration, Human Rights First, Nashiri, Yale Law School, indefinite detention  
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1996 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jun 2013 at 8:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-17 11:30:20 PM
Biological Ali
That was a long-winded way of saying "I don't understand game theory."

You have to look at the iterative case, not just the non-iterative case. insert quote about winning the battle but losing the war
 
2013-06-17 11:33:26 PM

bulldg4life: I dunno...I'm sure My Lai Massacre is up there somewhere.


My Lai was not an act of national policy.
 
2013-06-17 11:36:20 PM
Guantanamo Bay is a stain on our country. People are correct in seeing us as monsters because of it. Not only monsters, but hypocritical monters afraid of our own values when confronted with adversity.
 
2013-06-17 11:51:58 PM

DeArmondVI: Guantanamo Bay is a stain on our country. People are correct in seeing us as monsters because of it. Not only monsters, but hypocritical monters afraid of our own values when confronted with adversity.


Only retards would see that.  We would happily return them if their countries would take them.  In fact, if any of those people who think we are monsters would like to take these men, they are welcome to.  But they won't.
 
2013-06-18 12:01:39 AM
What have we done? I mean, that's all that remains to be said. We have taken people and turned them into nothing. We can't send them home, we can't keep them, and we can't kill them. We have created animals that under any other circumstances would be euthanized, except when it comes down to that THEN we grant them humanity, which is something we refuse to grant them any other time.

We have to bring them here. We have to put them on trial. If we can't put them on trial we have to let them go. We demean ourselves by doing otherwise.

It shames me to think back to when this started and how I supported the situation at Guantanamo. Thought the "enemy combatant" status was a perfectly valid position to take. 12 years later, with the camp still in existence and the people still there,  I no longer hold that position. It should have been finished 10 years ago.
 
2013-06-18 12:17:41 AM
They should never have left the battlefield alive.

They should never have expanded the battlefield to include the entire surface of the earth.
 
2013-06-18 12:22:13 AM

hubiestubert: Point them at yourselves. Point them at all of us, because we let it happened, and a LOT of folks cheered. Congrats. This is the result. Happy? We got EXACTLY what we wanted, and now we don't want it anymore, and we can't take it back.


Yeah, it's kinda like trying to put a turd back where it came from, then blaming someone else for the funky smell.
There are those of us who did try to do something... organized voter drives, protested (I almost got arrested), voted in every election... and still the DERP was too deep. Fear makes people stupid, and intensifies the stupid that stupid people already have.

This is something this country is going to have to deal with for a long, long time.
 
2013-06-18 12:34:00 AM

Hetfield: cman: I was for the Patriot act originally

Disgusting.


Well, he was 18 then (if he was telling the truth), and we all do stupid things when we're 18. Of course, most of us don't brag about them, either.
 
2013-06-18 12:37:43 AM

Giltric: They should never have left the battlefield alive.

They should never have expanded the battlefield to include the entire surface of the earth.


You have evidence that these people are all guilty of being terrorists, beyond "They're in Guantanamo, therefore they're guilty"?
 
2013-06-18 12:45:52 AM

tbeatty: DeArmondVI: Guantanamo Bay is a stain on our country. People are correct in seeing us as monsters because of it. Not only monsters, but hypocritical monters afraid of our own values when confronted with adversity.

Only retards would see that.  We would happily return them if their countries would take them.  In fact, if any of those people who think we are monsters would like to take these men, they are welcome to.  But they won't.


It's their fault, not ours!

Cliff Notestm couldn't have made a better summary of modern America.
 
2013-06-18 12:48:09 AM
Does anyone remember the day the World Trade Towers fell? Remember watching the news? Remember the long gas lines for price-gouged fuel? Every American was scared shiatless.

When the Patriot Act was passed, I was against it. I knew that it would be abused. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. However, most Americans were scared shiatless and wanted to know that our Big Brother was looking out for our safety and well-being.

We set ourselves up for the situation we are in now. We created a 'class' for these people (detainees) that isn't defined by law. And, in order to remove these people from this 'class', we have to place them back into the real world.

We (the Government, the U.S. citizens that appointed our Government) created this. We need to come clean and say we farked up. We farked up.

I don't think we'll ever know how many terrorist attacks the Patriot Act has stopped. We're all in a world of shiat and need to come clean on this.
 
2013-06-18 01:04:08 AM
tbeatty
if any of those people who think we are monsters would like to take these men, they are welcome to. But they won't.

[[citation needed]]


Giltric
They should never have left the battlefield alive.

They should never have expanded the battlefield to include the entire surface of the earth.


Woah, al-Qaeda has a space program now? Or is Gitmo in such a legal limbo that it's actually on a different planet?


What in The
We (the Government, the U.S. citizens that appointed our Government)

Don't kid yourself.
 
2013-06-18 01:08:14 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Terrorists should be executed instead of being given free cable.


I bet I have an extra box (qty 50) of .357 Remington Maximum I'll send them for free.  You only need 24 if you put their heads next to each other.
 
2013-06-18 02:11:59 AM

hubiestubert: What bothers me on this issue, is that for years, folks have been ignoring this very point. Again and again, but NOW it is suddenly an issue, and looking to blame someone, they turn to the guy who was left with this stinking pile of kuso, instead of the festering and diseased Shetland pony that shat it out, and left it in Gitmo all this time...


...this is the only issue that that's a problem for you for?  There are dozens of issues that weren't a problem until the blah guy took office. Hell, half of the surveillance shiat Obama is taking was created with the PATRIOT Act...and most of the rest is actually older than that.
 
2013-06-18 02:57:00 AM

feckingmorons: Send them home. If they try to attack us kill them, if not let them herd goats or whatever if is those people do.


If ONLY it were / was that simple. Sadly- it is not . sigh . sigh .
 
2013-06-18 02:57:13 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com : it's OK, his opposition is strong, they will change the laws to stop this human rights abuse
 
2013-06-18 03:05:15 AM
For the record- we had almost no problem with prisoners of war in the past. Sure- a couple of escapes, but that was not really a big deal, and that was  > 50 years ago . The main deal is, and i wont read the whole thread to avoid many crap statements- we didna exactly follow the geneva convention, and that opened up a whole big huge can of worms for how our guys get treated. I know- they dont follow it in any way, but we are supposed to be the good guys. Sure- you are deader than a petrified tree if we get you in our sights, but if you just get hurt or captured- you will be treated according to the laws of war. They dont follow this but once we stopped being the example of good- we lost all credibility . Im not talking about the recent past in Korea, Vietnam, Panama, or even ww2, where things just happened- oops. Im talking about the last 15 years.
And our actions make me worry about our good folks, as all they have to do is freeze frame a video from abu graib, and say - see- they are animals so we can treat them as such.
Thats the damn scary thing, imho .
 
2013-06-18 03:10:35 AM
One more thing- I appreciate your dedication to the rule of law, as hard as it has been, to any Jag or other lawyer involved. Tough hill to climb and I am sure that you have caught a ton of crap- but thanks.
Without the rule of law we turn to savages quite easily, even if many laws are stupid.
Peace, and long life
 
2013-06-18 03:35:48 AM

DeArmondVI: tbeatty: DeArmondVI: Guantanamo Bay is a stain on our country. People are correct in seeing us as monsters because of it. Not only monsters, but hypocritical monters afraid of our own values when confronted with adversity.

Only retards would see that.  We would happily return them if their countries would take them.  In fact, if any of those people who think we are monsters would like to take these men, they are welcome to.  But they won't.

It's their fault, not ours!

Cliff Notestm couldn't have made a better summary of modern America.


It's pretty simple.  You won't put them in your house.  Their own country won't take htem.  They aren't U.S. Citizens.  "Letting them go" implies they have somewhere to go, which they don't.  .
 
2013-06-18 03:44:59 AM

Nabb1: hubiestubert: cman: The Why Not Guy: cman: Guess what? I was for the Patriot act originally...

I love how you act like that will surprise anyone.

Nice cherry pickings there

It's a statement you made.

Here. I'll quote the entirety of it:

"WOW what undue rage
Guess what? I was for the Patriot act originally, but I turned against it in 2006 BEFORE Bush left office."

You were for the US PATRIOT Act, despite the fact that it had been shot down in pieces before 9/11 again and again, as too authoritarian, and too intrusive as measures go, and THEN when you saw it in action, you realized it was a bad idea, in practice.

So, essentially, you're admitting that you simply hadn't thought the whole thing through.

Which doesn't really surprise folks here all that much. It was a reactionary, panicked measure and cobbled together from the wet dream dribblings of authoritarian asshats who dislike privacy, dislike the limitations of our courts, and REALLY dislike any measure of checks and balances, but you were FOR it, before it actually got into practice. You just liked the idea. You liked the thought of being tough and with a Fed full of power, without a lot of oversight, but when put into practice, it was suddenly revealed to be the stinker that folks had said it was, long before it was signed into law, and who had been warning folks about since pieces of it were showing up in all sorts of bills as riders and addendum.

That's not cherry picking, that's simply noticing that you're a reactionary pile of kuso...

Who gives a shiat if he once supported it? So care more about maintaining some smug sense of superiority rather than seeing more people that originally supported it change their minds and swing the political pendulum
enough to change it? I was always against it, bug I'm not goin to rub people's noses in it. People here will twit every which way to make excuses for the President who voted on the renewal and has embraced every facet of Executive power it confers, but h ...


If you come into a conversation, I usually end up having nothing to say at all, because you say it and say it well.
 
2013-06-18 03:50:53 AM
I find it amusing that I've noticed a few people who, in NSA threads, have declared that PRISM makes the US just like Nazi Germany/the USSR, are now advocating executing prisoners without trial.
 
2013-06-18 04:02:40 AM
 plus there are those who were radicalized after "questioning"


i say again
whether for good or for bad
show some competence and either kill them or let them go

but they are bad people   ---- then kill them
but they haven't been convicted of any thing  ---- then let them go
who's in charge --- make a decision
 
2013-06-18 04:15:52 AM

hubiestubert: cman: [johnbardi.edublogs.org image 525x301]

Yes, because Obama should pull out his magical time machine and use his Jedi Mind Trick to cause Bush and Company to NOT use extraordinary rendition and ask for "enemy combatant" status be used on criminals?

It staggers the mind how obtuse and asinine one human can be, nearly 98% of the time. Please, let's make this partisan issue, because THIS list, it hasn't changed since the Bush years. And we've KNOWN that folks will never be able to be released, and have known this for some time, and oddly enough, some of us even realized this as soon as the "enemy combatant" tripe was bandied about, along with extraordinary rendition was used, that this was going to bite us on the ass. This is an issue that was created by a Congress and Administration that was afraid of due process, and now we are going to have to face that we've pooped in our own dog dish, but please, pass the buck along, because that will certainly help folks sleep better at night, instead of attempting to use some tiny modicum of thought.

What bothers me on this issue, is that for years, folks have been ignoring this very point. Again and again, but NOW it is suddenly an issue, and looking to blame someone, they turn to the guy who was left with this stinking pile of kuso, instead of the festering and diseased Shetland pony that shat it out, and left it in Gitmo all this time...


He volunteered and promised to shovel it years ago
 
2013-06-18 04:37:20 AM

BSABSVR: Nabb1: Who gives a shiat if he once supported it? So care more about maintaining some smug sense of superiority rather than seeing more people that originally supported it change their minds and swing the political pendulum
enough to change it? I was always against it, bug I'm not goin to rub people's noses in it. People here will twit every which way to make excuses for the President who voted on the renewal and has embraced every facet of Executive power it confers, but heaven forbid some here admit they once supported it. I swear, I think some people would rather see this crap continue if changing it would look like a political defeat for their own party. It's farking pathetic.



Being for it, then against it means there's a good chance that one will some day be for it again on a whim.


.... As soon as the president is white enough and works for the party that represents their interest least, sentiment will change.
 
2013-06-18 05:52:44 AM

armoredbulldozer: jehovahs witness protection: Terrorists should be executed instead of being given free cable.

I bet I have an extra box (qty 50) of .357 Remington Maximum I'll send them for free.  You only need 24 if you put their heads next to each other.


You're a hate filled violent little man.

Flail your little fists some more.
Clutch your penis extension tightly to your chest.
Stand near your fainting couch, lest the vapors overtake you.

They are dudes in an off shore prison, not supervillains.

I don't see Lex Luthor, The Joker, or Solomon Grundy on that list of names.

P.S. You forgot to call the President some variation of Cocksucker. Its your normal MO.
 
2013-06-18 06:53:24 AM
To be fair, it's our ineffective and ineffectual government, not the president alone, that keeps Gitmo from being closed. There are people within the government who want to keep the place open, sure, but there are many more who don't really seem to care enough to challenge the status quo. They need a real mandate from the voters to shut it down -- a mandate they have yet to receive.

We so often forget that in Democracy, we can effect change if we just make these people scared enough that they'll lose their power that they need to act. How many of us read this news and shake our heads rather than looking into ways we can take political action to do something about it?

Apathy is what allows Gitmo to stay open. Rallying against that apathy is what will eventually close it for good.
 
2013-06-18 07:42:05 AM
 Partisanship is what allows Gitmo to stay open, as well as every other government action that is ethically repugnant. Conservatives and progressives can get together and agree that these activities are unacceptable, while partisans change their attitudes depending on who's doing it at the time.
 
2013-06-18 07:47:45 AM
wow, so we have MULTIPLE fark "posters" furiously jerkin their little dicks at the thought of executing suspected terrorists
 
Xai
2013-06-18 08:15:41 AM
Land of the free?
 
2013-06-18 08:34:25 AM
Newsflash: The US isn't morally superior to other nations simply by virtue of being the US. That's a story we tell ourselves but it's the same story the people of any moderately nationalist nation tell themselves.
 
2013-06-18 08:57:15 AM
Dangerous?  These guys are a drop in a sea of dangerous men who want to harm us.  More like they don't want them to live to tell their stories of what we did to them.
 
2013-06-18 09:11:05 AM

LordJiro: Giltric: They should never have left the battlefield alive.

They should never have expanded the battlefield to include the entire surface of the earth.

You have evidence that these people are all guilty of being terrorists, beyond "They're in Guantanamo, therefore they're guilty"?


I might not believe the politicians and directors of agencies but I definitely believe the boys with black rifles and green eyes who more than likely whisked them away in the middle of the night from the battlespace.

I've heard it mentioned that the best interrogation technique at the time was throwing a bag over their head upon capture and telling them "you usama bin laden , you very bad man" to which the captive would reply.. "No I Youseff Malabalabingbong" which coincided with the intel we had that motivated the mission to scoop them up and take them away.
 
2013-06-18 09:29:00 AM

feckingmorons: Send them home. If they try to attack us kill them, if not let them herd goats or whatever if is those people do.


This.  Airdrop them with a fistful of local currency an 10 MRE's.
 
2013-06-18 09:33:02 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I assume the list includes Lex Luthor, General Zod and Braniac?

/I mean... these must be supercriminals, right?


Like this 15 year old kept at Gitmo and still in jail today.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-06-18 09:38:45 AM

mrshowrules: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I assume the list includes Lex Luthor, General Zod and Braniac?

/I mean... these must be supercriminals, right?

Like this 15 year old kept at Gitmo and still in jail today.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 430x600]


http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7523347-el-ponchis-14year- ol d-drug-cartel-hitman-arrested-in-mexico

Does age mean the difference between innocent and guilty?
 
2013-06-18 09:43:52 AM

mrshowrules: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I assume the list includes Lex Luthor, General Zod and Braniac?

/I mean... these must be supercriminals, right?

Like this 15 year old kept at Gitmo and still in jail today.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 430x600]


Didn't I see him holding a bouquet of flowers and scowling at a couple of skinny blondes?
 
2013-06-18 09:44:38 AM

Relatively Obscure: Dangerous people are released All The Goddamn Time.


Hell, Dick Cheney is still walking around and G W Bush is still walking into doors.
 
2013-06-18 09:53:24 AM

Jackson Herring: wow, so we have MULTIPLE fark "posters" furiously jerkin their little dicks at the thought of executing suspected terrorists


That sir is an inaccurate statement.

They have no dicks.
 
2013-06-18 10:02:22 AM

nmemkha: Jackson Herring: wow, so we have MULTIPLE fark "posters" furiously jerkin their little dicks at the thought of executing suspected terrorists

That sir is an inaccurate statement.

They have no dicks.


Well, they're braver than the legislators who are so bedwettingly terrified of doing -anything- with these men that they're paralyzed.
 
2013-06-18 10:12:38 AM

What in The: We're all in a world of shiat and need to come clean on this.


THIS
 
2013-06-18 11:17:01 AM

tbeatty: DeArmondVI: tbeatty: DeArmondVI: Guantanamo Bay is a stain on our country. People are correct in seeing us as monsters because of it. Not only monsters, but hypocritical monters afraid of our own values when confronted with adversity.

Only retards would see that.  We would happily return them if their countries would take them.  In fact, if any of those people who think we are monsters would like to take these men, they are welcome to.  But they won't.

It's their fault, not ours!

Cliff Notestm couldn't have made a better summary of modern America.

It's pretty simple.  You won't put them in your house.  Their own country won't take htem.  They aren't U.S. Citizens.  "Letting them go" implies they have somewhere to go, which they don't.  .


"Coming up with how to fix our mistake is hard. So let's just keep making the same mistake."

We should put them on trial (you know, that whole "believing in our own values" thing). Those found guilty go to prison. Those found innocent should get to live subsidized lives on our dime for the rest of their lives. Hell, if one wants to live in my apartment, my doors are wide open.

Correcting mistakes requires not passing the buck elsewhere and being willing to sacrifice.
 
2013-06-18 11:20:16 AM

DeArmondVI: tbeatty: DeArmondVI: tbeatty: DeArmondVI: Guantanamo Bay is a stain on our country. People are correct in seeing us as monsters because of it. Not only monsters, but hypocritical monters afraid of our own values when confronted with adversity.

Only retards would see that.  We would happily return them if their countries would take them.  In fact, if any of those people who think we are monsters would like to take these men, they are welcome to.  But they won't.

It's their fault, not ours!

Cliff Notestm couldn't have made a better summary of modern America.

It's pretty simple.  You won't put them in your house.  Their own country won't take htem.  They aren't U.S. Citizens.  "Letting them go" implies they have somewhere to go, which they don't.  .

"Coming up with how to fix our mistake is hard. So let's just keep making the same mistake."

We should put them on trial (you know, that whole "believing in our own values" thing). Those found guilty go to prison. Those found innocent not guilty should get to live subsidized lives on our dime for the rest of their lives. Hell, if one wants to live in my apartment, my doors are wide open.

Correcting mistakes requires not passing the buck elsewhere and being willing to sacrifice.


FTFM
 
2013-06-18 11:29:05 AM

Giltric: mrshowrules: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I assume the list includes Lex Luthor, General Zod and Braniac?

/I mean... these must be supercriminals, right?

Like this 15 year old kept at Gitmo and still in jail today.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 430x600]

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7523347-el-ponchis-14year- ol d-drug-cartel-hitman-arrested-in-mexico

Does age mean the difference between innocent and guilty?


only if they are white
 
2013-06-18 11:36:39 AM
GOOD.
 
2013-06-18 12:05:30 PM

mrshowrules: Does age mean the difference between innocent and guilty?

only if they are white


...And can prove their innocence.

/The new American paradigm
 
2013-06-18 02:20:39 PM
If Obama wanted to really close Guantanamo Bay he would just refuse to sign any continuation funding bill that had funding for Guantanamo Bay. Then we call the troops home, kick those farkers out the door and tell Cuba it's their problem.
 
2013-06-18 02:21:37 PM
Why don't we just have a "gas leak" that blows the them and the farking place up? That would solve all our problems.
 
2013-06-18 02:57:15 PM

DeArmondVI: DeArmondVI: tbeatty: DeArmondVI: tbeatty: DeArmondVI: Guantanamo Bay is a stain on our country. People are correct in seeing us as monsters because of it. Not only monsters, but hypocritical monters afraid of our own values when confronted with adversity.

Only retards would see that.  We would happily return them if their countries would take them.  In fact, if any of those people who think we are monsters would like to take these men, they are welcome to.  But they won't.

It's their fault, not ours!

Cliff Notestm couldn't have made a better summary of modern America.

It's pretty simple.  You won't put them in your house.  Their own country won't take htem.  They aren't U.S. Citizens.  "Letting them go" implies they have somewhere to go, which they don't.  .

"Coming up with how to fix our mistake is hard. So let's just keep making the same mistake."

We should put them on trial (you know, that whole "believing in our own values" thing). Those found guilty go to prison. Those found innocent not guilty should get to live subsidized lives on our dime for the rest of their lives. Hell, if one wants to live in my apartment, my doors are wide open.

Correcting mistakes requires not passing the buck elsewhere and being willing to sacrifice.

FTFM


Why would we do that?  It's not our "mistake."  We didn't keep German POW's or Irawi POW's.  We sent them home if they didn't commit war crimes.  Heck, we deport 90 year old's without trial just based on their immigration application from 1945.  There is no reason why they should ever step foot in this country.  Until their own countries accept them, keep them in Gitmo.  Fully subsidized as you insist.
 
2013-06-18 05:31:38 PM

djkutch: cman: djkutch: cman: Guess what? I was for the Patriot act originally, but I turned against it in 2006 BEFORE Bush left office.

How very rugged. Who'd you vote? Obama or Romney?

Gary Johnson

How about you?

The rational choice without throwing my vote away. But, I live in Arizona, so really I threw my vote away.

How about the Republicans get behind someone like Gary Johnson? If you voted for him, you're saying the Republicans didn't offer anyone you could consider. He may be a Republican, but the party didn't take him seriously.


Voting for the meaningless Libertarian candidate only means you can't take the credit and you don't have to take the blame. Might as well vote for the Vegetarian candidate. Or just stay home next time and stop bothering the adults.
 
2013-06-18 06:54:05 PM
Well, the GOP once again prevented anything being done with Gitmo, so despite all of their whining and crying about it existing they certainly want to keep it around if only to have one real reason to biatch and whine about Obama.
 
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