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(Sports Illustrated)   In NHL news, say hello to the....Seattle Coyotes?   (tracking.si.com) divider line 205
    More: Interesting, coyotes, NHL, Seattle, Key Arena, Mayor Mike McGinn, Emerald City, Gary Bettman, NHL Commissioner  
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2698 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 Jun 2013 at 2:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-17 04:52:39 PM
With Seattle's proximity to Canada I can't imagine any outcome other than there being very high attendance and support if we get a team. There will be an immediate rivalry with Vancouver that we haven't had since the days of the Grizzlies and Sonics still being in the region. I won't be holding my breath for us to be getting the Coyotes, since this whole thing reeks of Seattle being used to put pressure on Glendale just like we were used to help Sacramento get their shiat together for the Kings a couple months ago. I do however think that Seattle is going to end up with both the NHL and NBA within the next 3 years. We'll be building a brand new NHL-friendly arena once we secure an NBA team, and Seattle has one of the best economies in the country so I have no doubt we can support four major teams plus the Sounders. I think many Seattle residents (including myself) don't know much about the game of hockey since we haven't had an NHL team in ages, but that won't stop people from showing up.

As far as names go, my first choice would be the Metropolitans because I think it's still a great name almost 100 years after they won the Stanley Cup. My second choice would be the Sockeyes because, well, that's a very badass name for a hockey team.
 
2013-06-17 04:53:21 PM

soupafi: Quebec City is more likely.


No.  No it's not.  With the ink not yet dry on the re-alignment, and with the east already having more teams, there is no way they are going to Quebec City.  Or Hamilton or Markham or anywhere else in the eastern time zone. Besides in a few years, when Fark-You-Gary-Bergman decides it's expansion time, Quebec and Toronto(ish) will pay WAY more for the privilage.

So of the West there is Seattle good town, not good building and will a hockey team by itself be enough to get a new building?... Kansas City okay town and a shiny new building with the added complication of forcing the Av's into the Pacific division... or Vegas with pretty much neither.  Desert Geek had an interesting idea yesterday at the end of the game 2 thread about moving back to Phoenix from Glendale.  Again old crappy building for a year or two, but it would be an awesome FU to Glendale from the NHL.
 
2013-06-17 05:00:10 PM

Lunchlady: I have a hard time imagining the Canucks not axing this deal, too close to their fan base that's been around far longer.

Milwaukee should get a team if anyone.


Is AHL hockey so much worse than NHL that the "hockey fans" of Milwaukee won't go to games (current avg attendance around 6k).   I mean, a bump to the NHL would expect to add I'd think around 3-4k fans, not over double their current attendance (which is what would be needed to support an NHL team).
 
2013-06-17 05:01:01 PM

scoughlin: There will be an immediate rivalry with Vancouver that we haven't had since the days of the Grizzlies and Sonics still being in the region.


There never was a rivalry between the Sonics and the Grizzlies.   The only rivalry the Sonics ever had was with the Fail Blazers.

scoughlin: As far as names go, my first choice would be the Metropolitans because I think it's still a great name almost 100 years after they won the Stanley Cup. My second choice would be the Sockeyes because, well, that's a very badass name for a hockey team.


Metropolitans does have a nice ring to it, but since there is a Metropolitans in baseball, I'm not sure the NHL would go for it.  Sockeyes would be kind of cool, but that would easily be abbreviated to "Sox," and "Seattle Sox" sounds like a bantam team name.
 
2013-06-17 05:06:18 PM

LessO2: scoughlin: There will be an immediate rivalry with Vancouver that we haven't had since the days of the Grizzlies and Sonics still being in the region.

There never was a rivalry between the Sonics and the Grizzlies.   The only rivalry the Sonics ever had was with the Fail Blazers.

scoughlin: As far as names go, my first choice would be the Metropolitans because I think it's still a great name almost 100 years after they won the Stanley Cup. My second choice would be the Sockeyes because, well, that's a very badass name for a hockey team.

Metropolitans does have a nice ring to it, but since there is a Metropolitans in baseball, I'm not sure the NHL would go for it.  Sockeyes would be kind of cool, but that would easily be abbreviated to "Sox," and "Seattle Sox" sounds like a bantam team name.


As a Grizzlies season tickets holder, we considered the Sonics and to a lesser degree, Portland, rivals (at least our biggest non-Jordan crowds were against Seattle, Toronto then Portland).
 
2013-06-17 05:08:17 PM

ShadowKamui: TeamEd: Go with the Metropolitains.
You get to go the Senators route and piggy back on history and get awesome throwbacks as a bonus.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Metropolitans

Do they get the rights to the Stanley Cup win?


Why not? After all, the old Winnipeg Jets had Stanley Cup banners for the 1896 PCHL Winnipeg Victorias.
i212.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-17 05:12:34 PM
LessO2:

Metropolitans does have a nice ring to it, but since there is a Metropolitans in baseball, I'm not sure the NHL would go for it.

i105.photobucket.com i105.photobucket.com
i105.photobucket.com i105.photobucket.com
i105.photobucket.com i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-17 05:13:53 PM

sno man: Desert Geek had an interesting idea yesterday at the end of the game 2 thread about moving back to Phoenix from Glendale.  Again old crappy building for a year or two, but it would be an awesome FU to Glendale from the NHL.


Might just be my view of things from here in Bruins territory, but I just don't get why they decided to screw over half the area's population by moving it that far west in the Phoenix area in the first place.

\less stupid than putting teams in Phoenix, Florida or failing in Atlanta twice, but I digress
 
2013-06-17 05:16:46 PM
I'm not even interested in seeing a Sounders game, let alone an imaginary NHL/NBA team.
 
2013-06-17 05:18:33 PM
Ahh the whole Were gonna move your team to Seattle if you dont play by our rules game.


"Mongo only pawn in game of life!"
 
2013-06-17 05:23:48 PM

sno man: Desert Geek had an interesting idea yesterday at the end of the game 2 thread about moving back to Phoenix from Glendale.  Again old crappy building for a year or two, but it would be an awesome FU to Glendale from the NHL.


Allow me to copy what I said for everyone here...

At this point, there are 4 scenarios I can see happening. Two of them are obvious and the other two aren't well known unless you know the politics going on in this area.

1) Glendale approves the deal and the Coyotes stay. Probability of this: 10%. I don't trust the Glendale politicians to get this done. If they kill the deal, they're risking bankruptcy of the town.

2) Glendale kills the deal, Coyotes move to Seattle, Phoenix is screwed. Probability: 35%. Seattle makes a lot of sense for a hockey market. Only issue is whether they could get a new building built quickly.

3) Glendale kills the deal, Coyotes move to Seattle, Phoenix is promised an expansion team in 2016. Probability: 30%. I get a feeling that the NHL would like to expand. The unbalanced conferences and the desires up in Canada for an 8th team just creates an opening to have 2 more teams. I know a lot of people don't like that idea, but the people in charge (the owners) probably would like it because it means more money.

4) Glendale kills the deal, Coyotes move back to downtown Phoenix, Seattle waits. Probability: 25%. Let me explain my thinking on this:

- Coyotes played in what is now called "US Airways Center" from 1996-2003 (moving to Glendale 6 months before the season cancelling lockout) and it sucked. Obstructed seats and just not a great venue for hockey, since it was a place built mainly for basketball.

- The current owner of the Phoenix Suns (USAC's main tenant), whom I refer to solely as "Cheap Ass Mother F**ker" (CAMF, for short) is not happy with his current situation. The City of Phoenix (who own USAC) won't work with him on certain things he wants to do around the arena (parking garages, hotels, etc.)

- In the next couple of weeks, USAC will turn 21 years old. That's ancient by modern arena standards. And the Suns have a 30 year lease.

- Here's the hypothetical situation: the Coyotes' buyers say to CAMF "let's move in to USAC for a couple of years while we get a new arena built on native American reservation land, specifically just outside of Scottsdale, AZ (with a reservation that has 2 very popular casinos). You can use our lease money to buy out the final 4-5 years of your lease and we move to this new arena at the same time." Oh, and the new building would be lease-free, involved no public money (the reservation would pay for it) and seat more than the USAC can.

I don't know if the Coyotes' buyers have talked to CAMF, but if they have; I'm sure this idea has been discussed. And of course, if option 3 happens; the expansion team could always join the Suns in this new arena.

Those are the 4 options. The only thing we know for sure: the saga will end in the next 2-3 weeks. And thank FSM for that!
---

A couple of thoughts on things said in this thread:

- Yes, a lot of this is a ploy to tell Glendale "get this done because you're farked either way." It's just up to Glendale to decide if it's with lube (get a deal done) or without (reject the deal, lose the team and risk going bankrupt).

-Seattle is a deserving market for hockey. The metro area population is only 300k or so less than the Phoenix area. Yes, that arena situation will blow chunks. It's actually worse than what the Coyotes had when they first moved here (and would have if my 3rd scenario came true) with obstructed seating (at least they put some sections under the overhang to maximize the seating available... and that image is the best I could find).

-Sorry eastern Canada. They're not moving up there. Blame Detroit biatching about moving to the East for that.
 
2013-06-17 05:26:28 PM

FriarReb98: Might just be my view of things from here in Bruins territory, but I just don't get why they decided to screw over half the area's population by moving it that far west in the Phoenix area in the first place.


Quick version of the story:

- Coyotes owner at the time wanted to put the new building in south Scottsdale, AZ at a vacant mall.
- Scottsdale city council dragged their feet
- Glendale took advantage and got a deal
 
2013-06-17 05:32:29 PM

FriarReb98: sno man: Desert Geek had an interesting idea yesterday at the end of the game 2 thread about moving back to Phoenix from Glendale.  Again old crappy building for a year or two, but it would be an awesome FU to Glendale from the NHL.

Might just be my view of things from here in Bruins territory, but I just don't get why they decided to screw over half the area's population by moving it that far west in the Phoenix area in the first place.

\less stupid than putting teams in Phoenix, Florida or failing in Atlanta twice, but I digress


DG would probably have a better answer with more detail, but I think Glendale City Council got dollar signs in there eyes, without having thought there cunning plan through.  Then baled on the all the rest of the development required to support it... The Yotes Owner at the time giving the whole thing about the same amount of thought and jumped at the new building because it was new, wrong location be damned.  (this basic scenario happened in Ottawa too, but Kanata has finally been building up around the rink...)
 
2013-06-17 05:32:56 PM

desertgeek: - Coyotes owner at the time wanted to put the new building in south Scottsdale, AZ at a vacant mall.


and for years, i've said, "congratulations, scottsdale, you were to cheap to invest what would have been in 1999 dollars, perhaps $50-$70M dollars, and reap the benefit of secondary level retail investment (business development near the venue), tax revenue, construction, hotels, JOBS etc., and instead, 14 years later, that site that you so proudly held on to, you've reaped 14 years of NOTHING.  congratulations!"
 
2013-06-17 05:33:06 PM
The Seattle Outsourcepartstochinathenwonderwhythenewplanecatchesfire
 
2013-06-17 05:34:06 PM
and I wonder what Vancouver brass thinks of this potential move into their backyard?
 
2013-06-17 05:36:24 PM

sno man: Glendale City Council got dollar signs in there eyes, without having thought there cunning plan through.


i'm not enough of a fan to intelligently pick apart the deal, but from what i read, both the NHL and Glendale have farked it up at just about every possible chance.  the Westgate mall never took off, the parking revenue goes to I think the NHL while Glendale is scraping by, and I think the NHL refuses to redo the deal (never mind that, ummm, NO ONE GOES TO GAMES) so they too, are proudly hanging onto 100% of no cars giong to games instead of maybe, just maybe, sharing some of the wealth.....
 
2013-06-17 05:39:50 PM

KingKauff: PowerSlacker: KingKauff: SlagginOff: Seattle is a much more respectable hockey market than farking Phoenix.

So is/was Atlanta. Lot of good that did us.

When was Atlanta ever a respectable hockey market?

Pretty much the entire time the Thrashers were here. There is this aura that Atlanta didn't support the Thrashers. We did. We just didn't support the ownership group because they quit trying to keep their good players.


That's really a shame.  I admit I kind of wrote them off along with "Predators" and "Wild" on my list of "shiatty expansion teams with shiatty names."  But then I learned that the Brown Thrasher is Georgia's state bird and then it was kinda cool, and the logo finally made sense to me.

Anyway, this kind of helps reinforce my idea that while hockey may be less popular, it has more die-hard fans than other leagues.  Hopefully the third time will be a charm for Atlanta hockey.
 
2013-06-17 05:44:11 PM

sno man: DG would probably have a better answer with more detail, but I think Glendale City Council got dollar signs in there eyes, without having thought there cunning plan through.  Then baled on the all the rest of the development required to support it... The Yotes Owner at the time giving the whole thing about the same amount of thought and jumped at the new building because it was new, wrong location be damned.  (this basic scenario happened in Ottawa too, but Kanata has finally been building up around the rink...)


Pretty much this. Add on to this that part of the money losses created by the previous owner was from renting office space in the surrounding shopping/office complex leaving office space inside the arena vacant.

I'm starting to work on a long blog post on this whole damn mess that I'll post when the story is finally wrapped up. I would much rather do that than kill Fark's servers any further with my rants on this.
 
2013-06-17 05:48:08 PM
I otherwise don't hear much about happenings within local/municipality governments around Phoenix, but holy f*ck do they seem utterly incompetent whenever people with knowledge of the Coyotes' situation talk about it.
 
2013-06-17 05:50:21 PM

rickythepenguin: sno man: Glendale City Council got dollar signs in there eyes, without having thought there cunning plan through.

i'm not enough of a fan to intelligently pick apart the deal, but from what i read, both the NHL and Glendale have farked it up at just about every possible chance.  the Westgate mall never took off, the parking revenue goes to I think the NHL while Glendale is scraping by, and I think the NHL refuses to redo the deal (never mind that, ummm, NO ONE GOES TO GAMES) so they too, are proudly hanging onto 100% of no cars giong to games instead of maybe, just maybe, sharing some of the wealth.....


Probably way more detail than you need or want, but the actual lease agreements are here scroll down to the Yote's logo.
 
2013-06-17 05:56:44 PM
WHAR <b>ontariolightning</b> I WANNA TASTE DEM TEARS

also, <b>desertgeek</b> i am truely sorry for your lots
 
2013-06-17 05:57:20 PM
fark you wysiwyg farkeditorrrrrrrrrrrr
 
2013-06-17 05:59:11 PM

buckeyebrain: DarkSoulNoHope: Hipsters of Seattle

I see what you did there.


They could play at the "Brand you've never heard of Arena"

Oh, and they would have playoff beards all season. The flannel sweaters and skinny uni pants might be a bit ugly.
 
2013-06-17 06:01:39 PM
sno man:

DG would probably have a better answer with more detail, but I think Glendale City Council got dollar signs in there eyes, without having thought there cunning plan through.  Then baled on the all the rest of the development required to support it... The Yotes Owner at the time giving the whole thing about the same amount of thought and jumped at the new building because it was new, wrong location be damned.  (this basic scenario happened in Ottawa too, but Kanata has finally been building up around the rink...)

That's the funny thing, Kanata was mostly building north/south then and is only recently starting to put residential near the arena.  So while there wasn't much but office buildings and car lots near the rink, there was still a lot of housing in the general area.  Glendale always struck me as "They're giving me tax breaks, YAY!"

That's not to say that there wasn't financial trouble in Ottawa due to the location, but that was the nitwit owners allowing Kanata and it's quasi-facist city council to dictate all the terms(especially on property tax).
 
2013-06-17 06:04:12 PM

iron_city_ap: buckeyebrain: DarkSoulNoHope: Hipsters of Seattle

I see what you did there.

They could play at the "Brand you've never heard of Arena"

Oh, and they would have playoff beards all season. The flannel sweaters and skinny uni pants might be a bit ugly.


Oh look, it's a guy from the kick-ass state of Indiana making fun of Seattle. How amusing.
 
2013-06-17 06:08:08 PM

El Brujo: iron_city_ap: buckeyebrain: DarkSoulNoHope: Hipsters of Seattle

I see what you did there.

They could play at the "Brand you've never heard of Arena"

Oh, and they would have playoff beards all season. The flannel sweaters and skinny uni pants might be a bit ugly.

Oh look, it's a guy from the kick-ass state of Indiana making fun of Seattle. How amusing.


Born and Raised in Pittsburgh, Currently live in Indiana, so yeah, it is amusing.
 
2013-06-17 06:13:02 PM
I, Mr. 'no more public money for privately owned professional sports teams' says - I'm ok with this at the key, which we already built.
 
2013-06-17 06:15:17 PM

mentallo69: If it happens, I vote for the Seattle Slashers.


but it wont happen.


I'd go for 'Green River Killers' or 'Bundymen' but that probably won't fly.
 
2013-06-17 06:18:19 PM

KingKauff: LessO2: Won't happen.   Bettman is likely using Seattle as a pawn to get things going between Glendale and the Coyotes.

Key Arena only seats 11,000 for hockey configuration.  Add about 3k more for "can't see half the ice" seats.

It's not like Bettman has ever yanked a team away from a city recently.......

/fark you with no lube in a cold locker room for taking the Thrashers away


The only reason you lost your team is because no one would support and any sane businessman knew they would never make money there.

He tried to keep the team there, many times. What was, it three, four ownership groups?

The only thing Bettman did wrong was put a team back there in the first place
 
2013-06-17 06:19:15 PM
For the record, I've thought for years Seattle should have an NHL team.
 
2013-06-17 06:24:00 PM

iron_city_ap: For the record, I've thought for years Seattle should have an NHL team.


Hockey will have more legs in seattle than baseball has proven to have. half a billion dollar stadium and a ten cent ownership group leads to sub 10k attendance on beautiful days. Not only would seattle support hockey I think they'd sell out every game.
 
2013-06-17 06:26:58 PM

JohnBigBootay: Not only would seattle support hockey I think they'd sell out every game.


BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAA
 
2013-06-17 06:31:27 PM

desertgeek: -Sorry eastern Canada. They're not moving up there. Blame Detroit biatching about moving to the East for that.


This.  I've always thought that the Red Wings have truly screwed the league with this whole thing.  Not only is the Joe the 16th most Western arena in the league (by a few miles to Columbus), their major rivalries are with teams that are west of them anyway.  The NHL is the most eastern-heavy league out of the Big 4 sports by mean longitude, and only beaten by the NFL in average longitude because of the lack of LA teams.  At this point, the only thing I think could work is if they went to a model more like the NFL and MLB where there are two conferences/leagues spread out over the entire country, instead of relying on geography when it's clearly against them.  It's the only way this will ever be fixed.
 
2013-06-17 06:31:28 PM
Team Name Ideas:

Seattle Metros (short for Metropolitans, thus you get the historical value of the original team, and the shortened name, updated colors, and no doubt updated and redesigned logo would make for easier merchandise sales)

Seattle Icehawks (I know, I don't like it either. Closest explanation is that there used to be a team called the Bellingham Icehawks years ago)

Seattle Pilots (hasn't been used since the baseball team left for Milwaukee, again a redesigned logo would not be bad here)

Seattle Wolverines (They are native to the area, plus the logo could look sweet by the end of the redesign)

Seattle Cougars (Again they are native to the area, and with a redesign...)

That is what I have thus far. I hope this hap[ens, as taking my son to a hockey game down there is much easier then having to cross the border to take him to one of the Canucks games.

// Canucks fan
/// Would support both teams
 
2013-06-17 06:34:26 PM

mikaloyd: JohnBigBootay: Not only would seattle support hockey I think they'd sell out every game.

BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAA


I thought being a sell-out in Seattle was a bad thing?
 
2013-06-17 06:35:14 PM
Why do people want the Seattle Metropolitans as a name? Because that team existed like 100 years ago.

I'd personally rather see something new, and if your gonna go old school the Totems is way better
 
2013-06-17 06:35:21 PM

mikaloyd: BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAA


now, i'/ve never been to seattle, but.....if they're selling out Sounders games, i have no doubt they'd back the NHL, an dback it bigtime, spesh if there's no likelihood of them getting an NBA 'chise back anytime.

/tangent:  slowly watching the "The Other Dream Team" documentary, about the 1992 Lithuanian Olyumpic Hoops team, and there's a stomach turning scene of David Stern announcing the 1989-ish pick where Portland selects Sarunas Marcialonus, who had just killed it at the 1998 Olympics for Russia (the subtext is the Russians invaded Lithuania in WWII, yet in 1988, had 4 Lithuanians playing for Russia.  To say they hated playing for Russia is an understatment).

anywyas, farking Stern, they show him at the podium smirking, and he goes, "with the 32nd pick....*half grimace, half smile*.....the....Portland Trailblazers......*imperceptible headshake*.....America's game?select, Sarunas Marcialonus, USSR."  he actually says that!  "america's game?"


and he just stands there with a "are you freaking kidding me?" look on his face.  I half expected him to make the "jacking off" hand gesture.

what a dick.
 
2013-06-17 06:38:52 PM
They have to be called The Starbucks.
 
2013-06-17 06:40:06 PM

uncleacid: They have to be called The Starbucks.


most sports fans in the city of Seattle freaking hate Starbucks....See NBA
 
2013-06-17 06:45:34 PM

germ78: The Seattle Outsourcepartstochinathenwonderwhythenewplanecatchesfire


Seattle More like 'Scarebus', amirite??s
 
2013-06-17 06:45:37 PM

mikaloyd: JohnBigBootay: Not only would seattle support hockey I think they'd sell out every game.

BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAA


Well, the arena is 11k.
 
2013-06-17 06:45:52 PM

mentallo69: Why do people want the Seattle Metropolitans as a name? Because that team existed like 100 years ago.

I'd personally rather see something new, and if your gonna go old school the Totems is way better


It sounds cool. Sounds sort of classic, unlinke so many retarded new team names like Raptors, Wild, Predators, Wizards, Avalanche, etc.

/totems isn't bad. I prefer Metropolitans though.
 
2013-06-17 06:59:25 PM

JohnBigBootay: iron_city_ap: For the record, I've thought for years Seattle should have an NHL team.

Hockey will have more legs in seattle than baseball has proven to have. half a billion dollar stadium and a ten cent ownership group leads to sub 10k attendance on beautiful days. Not only would seattle support hockey I think they'd sell out every game.


They could easily sell out the arena at first. That's a no brainer. Can they put the team in the hands of good owners who bring in good management and fill a shiny, new 40,000 one in 2 years?
 
2013-06-17 07:03:34 PM
Seattle?  Boring.  Tijuana Coyotes!

¡Vaya hombres del hielo con palos!
 
2013-06-17 07:06:04 PM

iron_city_ap: JohnBigBootay: iron_city_ap: For the record, I've thought for years Seattle should have an NHL team.

Hockey will have more legs in seattle than baseball has proven to have. half a billion dollar stadium and a ten cent ownership group leads to sub 10k attendance on beautiful days. Not only would seattle support hockey I think they'd sell out every game.

They could easily sell out the arena at first. That's a no brainer. Can they put the team in the hands of good owners who bring in good management and fill a shiny, new 40,000 one in 2 years?


40,000???  Are you going to require every fan to sit on another fan's lap?
 
2013-06-17 07:09:06 PM
you know what else is going on in the NHL?

how about a Game 3 thread mods!!
 
2013-06-17 07:12:24 PM
WHERE THE FARK IS THE STANLEY CUP THREAD? Mods get your heads otta youre collective ass.
 
2013-06-17 07:12:55 PM
LQA is a pain in the ass with Mercer all bunged up.  Keep your silly sports away from Key Arena.
 
2013-06-17 07:15:14 PM

swankywanky: how about a Game 3 thread mods!!


if no thread by start of game, top thread on the Sports tab becomes it, right?
 
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