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(Iowa City Press-Citizen)   Anti-drone activists protest the usage of the hunter-killer machines by banding together and slowly marching across the state of Iowa, making themselves an easier target   (press-citizen.com) divider line 67
    More: Ironic, killer, Veterans for Peace, activists, peace activists, Rock Island, Iowa National Guard, usages, military intelligences  
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1862 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jun 2013 at 9:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-17 09:13:26 AM
They should merge to form Protestron.
 
2013-06-17 09:47:34 AM
If they're moving slow enough, they'll probably also be attacked by Monsanto wheat.
 
2013-06-17 09:48:19 AM
I'm leaning towards hunting drones with a drone.
 
2013-06-17 09:52:05 AM
Anyone want to counter-protest?

We could get some drones (or just R/C quad-copters) to hover over them as they do their little march.

I actually have the time to do it right now, I just don't have any drones.
 
2013-06-17 09:53:51 AM
Would riding in a protest blimp be too ironic?
 
2013-06-17 09:55:30 AM

gfid: Anyone want to counter-protest?

We could get some drones (or just R/C quad-copters) to hover over them as they do their little march.

I actually have the time to do it right now, I just don't have any drones.


People would shiat themselves if they saw a quad-copter just lazily hang around the protest.
 
2013-06-17 09:59:33 AM
But drones arent fascist now that Obama is doing it.
 
2013-06-17 10:00:52 AM
Doh... I would love to hover my AR Drone 2 over the procession...
 
2013-06-17 10:02:07 AM
So many of these protests (much like the previously greened anti-"herion" protest) are just plain pointless.
If these people are anti-unmanned aerial vehicles, then does that mean they are pro-manned aerial vehicles?  Because that would be the ultimate outcome of eliminating UAVs at their local airbase.  The USA is not going to give up air defense no matter how much they protest.
 
2013-06-17 10:02:56 AM
I have no problem with drones, they're just a machine after all. I have a problem with the fact that the US government feels they can kill anyone they want, even US citizens, as long as they aren't physically in the country. It doesn't matter how justified the decision is if there's no oversight. Sooner or later the power is going to be abused and abused badly.
 
2013-06-17 10:04:41 AM

Interceptor1: I'm leaning towards hunting drones with a drone.


How dare you question the athoritah ofbthe NS(d)A(p)
 
2013-06-17 10:16:39 AM
Headline feels like a pretty forced use of the irony tag.
 
2013-06-17 10:23:25 AM
Fortunately it's the State of Iowa.
 
2013-06-17 10:25:46 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: I have no problem with drones, they're just a machine after all. I have a problem with the fact that the US government feels they can kill anyone they want, even US citizens, as long as they aren't physically in the country. It doesn't matter how justified the decision is if there's no oversight. Sooner or later the power is going to be abused and abused badly.


Stop being sensible!
 
2013-06-17 10:26:16 AM

Hobbess: Headline feels like a pretty forced use of the irony tag.


It's like raaaaaaaiiiiinnn...
 
2013-06-17 10:27:33 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: I have no problem with drones, they're just a machine after all. I have a problem with the fact that the US government feels they can kill anyone they want, even US citizens, as long as they aren't physically in the country. It doesn't matter how justified the decision is if there's no oversight. Sooner or later the power is going to be abused and abused badly.


Have they actually killed anyone who wasn't actively working with terrorists whose goal was to kill Americans? If you decide to betray your country like that and murder innocents just to make a political point, instead of working to change things in a legal manner within the system, then I think there should be a point where it stops being a legal matter and instead becomes a matter of national defense because you are basically declaring war on the US and its citizens. When you cross that line, I don't feel at all bad when you get a Hellfire up your ass instead of being mirandized.

To me the slippery slope arguments are kind of bullshiat, because the line is pretty damn clear between a political dissenter and someone who is actively killing and hurting people for political goals. If a drone causes another Kent State, I'll be outraged, but until then I consider them the best weapon we have against terror organizations, one I'd much rather use instead of invading more Middle Eastern countries.
 
2013-06-17 10:30:45 AM
FTFA: "I feel that the United States drone war is a form of terrorism, plain and simple. I don't want my community taking part in that," Jorgensen-Briggs said.

Just the drone program?

as opposed to......?
i.imgur.com

I don't like the long term, extended drone program either, but weighed against the the overwhelming number of bases in the area, drones are the smallest of worries.Maybe an effort to alter out fetishistic behavior towards military funding would be a start.

i.imgur.com

However, as long as the US populace holds on to the myth of no-US-casualty war operations, there are going to be operations like the the drone program to satisfy our blood lust while lulling us into thinking our troops our bullet proof. And it allows us to ignore the numbers of casualties from those heathens who hate democracy and freedom (eye-roll) Iraq Body Count

And as long as War Pigs like John McCain are applauded for drumming up reasons to blow things up, we will continue on the same path.
Bomb bomb bomb Iran
i.imgur.comi.imgur.com



here's hoping your kid is a fortunate son, eh?

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, one
 
2013-06-17 10:47:40 AM

Mad_Radhu: Have they actually killed anyone who wasn't actively working with terrorists whose goal was to kill Americans? If you decide to betray your country like that and murder innocents just to make a political point, instead of working to change things in a legal manner within the system, then I think there should be a point where it stops being a legal matter and instead becomes a matter of national defense because you are basically declaring war on the US and its citizens. When you cross that line, I don't feel at all bad when you get a Hellfire up your ass instead of being mirandized.

To me the slippery slope arguments are kind of bullshiat, because the line is pretty damn clear between a political dissenter and someone who is actively killing and hurting people for political goals. If a drone causes another Kent State, I'll be outraged, but until then I consider them the best weapon we have against terror organizations, one I'd much rather use instead of invading more Middle Eastern countries.


How do we know they were terrorists? What's the standard by which their violence is measured? America is perfectly willing to use violence to get our way but to stand up to us is an executable offense? You've just argued for killing anyone who opposes America but don't think that any oversight or safeguards are necessary. That's insane.

To kill those who would kill Americans is one thing but to do so in what is nominally peacetime and then refuse to acknowledge it or to explain why under the guise of national security is disturbing.
 
2013-06-17 10:51:21 AM
 
2013-06-17 10:54:51 AM
NIMBYs,the lot of them. None o them would complain if the base were located elsewhere
 
2013-06-17 10:54:57 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: I have no problem with drones, they're just a machine after all. I have a problem with the fact that the US government feels they can kill anyone they want, even US citizens, as long as they aren't physically in the country. It doesn't matter how justified the decision is if there's no oversight. Sooner or later the power is going to be abused and abused badly.



That's always been the case during war. If Americans are working with the enemy and we can't easily capture them we treat them as the enemy.
 
2013-06-17 11:03:50 AM

Mad_Radhu: To The Escape Zeppelin!: I have no problem with drones, they're just a machine after all. I have a problem with the fact that the US government feels they can kill anyone they want, even US citizens, as long as they aren't physically in the country. It doesn't matter how justified the decision is if there's no oversight. Sooner or later the power is going to be abused and abused badly.

Have they actually killed anyone who wasn't actively working with terrorists whose goal was to kill Americans? If you decide to betray your country like that and murder innocents just to make a political point, instead of working to change things in a legal manner within the system, then I think there should be a point where it stops being a legal matter and instead becomes a matter of national defense because you are basically declaring war on the US and its citizens. When you cross that line, I don't feel at all bad when you get a Hellfire up your ass instead of being mirandized.

To me the slippery slope arguments are kind of bullshiat, because the line is pretty damn clear between a political dissenter and someone who is actively killing and hurting people for political goals. If a drone causes another Kent State, I'll be outraged, but until then I consider them the best weapon we have against terror organizations, one I'd much rather use instead of invading more Middle Eastern countries.


Slippery slope arguments are always bullshiat.  The issue, to me, is that what we've done -- using military assets to kill Americans without a trial -- is way across the line.
 
2013-06-17 11:05:28 AM

BafflerMeal: .

http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/


[24.media.tumblr.com image 850x384]


No no no. As homelesschode pointed out a couple of posts above yours, this is entirely the fault of Republicans.
 
2013-06-17 11:05:39 AM

BafflerMeal: .

http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/


[24.media.tumblr.com image 850x384]


Which goes to show that the weapon, itself, is amazingly accurate.  The vast and overwhelming majority of those killed were combatants.  No other weapon is even remotely that accurate.
 
2013-06-17 11:05:47 AM
What a field day for the heat.
 
2013-06-17 11:05:50 AM

meanmutton: Slippery slope arguments are always bullshiat. The issue, to me, is that what we've done -- using military assets to kill Americans without a trial -- is way across the line.


So there are no circumstances where this is appropriate?
 
2013-06-17 11:08:34 AM

Corvus: To The Escape Zeppelin!: I have no problem with drones, they're just a machine after all. I have a problem with the fact that the US government feels they can kill anyone they want, even US citizens, as long as they aren't physically in the country. It doesn't matter how justified the decision is if there's no oversight. Sooner or later the power is going to be abused and abused badly.


That's always been the case during war. If Americans are working with the enemy and we can't easily capture them we treat them as the enemy.


But that's the problem. This is a perpetual never ending war and everything is justified because "we are at war". When does it end, ten years, twenty? When we finally declare victory over the intangible political ideals we are fighting will the NSA stop recording phone calls? Everything is justified in war and this is a war that will never end because its existence is too convenient.
 
2013-06-17 11:20:58 AM
I wish people would stop focusing on the tools at hand, and rather focus on who and why.

Drones aren't anything.  Just applied technology.  The justification for their use, the reasoning, the perpetual war, the war profiteering, those are the issues worth talking about.
 
2013-06-17 11:39:06 AM
ts2.mm.bing.net
Not amused
 
2013-06-17 11:40:26 AM
I wish I had a remote control model airplane/drone that I could fly around them while they march, just to mess with them.
 
2013-06-17 11:41:30 AM

meanmutton: BafflerMeal: .

http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/


[24.media.tumblr.com image 850x384]

Which goes to show that the weapon, itself, is amazingly accurate.  The vast and overwhelming majority of those killed were combatants.  No other weapon is even remotely that accurate.


You do know that we classify "militants" now as any military aged male in the blast radius now, right?  It's better than carpet bombing, sure but it depends on how you classify it.
 
2013-06-17 11:46:44 AM
UAVs sound better than risking the snakbars killing or capturing our dudes.

/am i doing it right?
 
2013-06-17 11:49:06 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: How do we know they were terrorists? What's the standard by which their violence is measured? America is perfectly willing to use violence to get our way but to stand up to us is an executable offense? You've just argued for killing anyone who opposes America but don't think that any oversight or safeguards are necessary. That's insane.


My standard is when you have an organization that killed 3,000 or so Americans and destroyed two huge buildings, and you have Americans working for that organization, they have basically declared war on the United States, and should be treated like any other soldier on the battlefield. When an attack of that scale happens, the response ceases to become a law enforcement action, and becomes a military action.

The US has done some really farked up things throughout recent history, and is not innocent by any means, but when you target innocent people, that crosses a line and deserves to me met with a deadly response. You just can't expect to send our military out there like policemen and read them their rights. It's not realistic because they view themselves as being at war with America. As I mentioned earlier, I much prefer killing member of Al Queda and other organizations like that by robot, as opposed to the far greater cost in soldiers, equipment, and civilian lives involved with invading two countries (one of which wasn't even involved in the 9/11 attacks) and having our soldiers and Marines play a deadly game of Whack-a-Mole with local insurgents who just want them out of their country. I just don't think there was a better option to remove Anwar al-Awlaki as a threat, because you can't realistically do a Zero Dark Thirty type operation for everyone in that is a threat.
 
2013-06-17 11:50:56 AM

Oldiron_79: But drones arent fascist now that Obama is doing it.


Drones are bad now that Obama is doing it.
 
2013-06-17 11:58:52 AM

Carousel Beast: o no no. As homelesschode pointed out a couple of posts above yours, this is entirely the fault of Republicans.


No, that is not what I said.
 
2013-06-17 12:06:06 PM
Mad_Radhu:

My standard is when you have an organization that killed 3,000 or so Americans and destroyed two huge buildings, and you have Americans working for that organization, they have basically declared war on the United States, and should be treated like any other soldier on the battlefield. When an attack of that scale happens, the response ceases to become a law enforcement action, and becomes a military action.

The US has done some really farked up things throughout recent history, and is not innocent by any means, but when you target innocent people, that crosses a line and deserves to me met with a deadly response. You just can't expect to send our military out there like policemen and read them their rights. It's not realistic because they view themselves as being at war with America. As I mentioned earlier, I much prefer killing member of Al Queda and other organizations like that by robot, as opposed to the far greater cost in soldiers, equipment, and civilian lives involved with invading two countries (one of which wasn't even involved in the 9/11 attacks) and having our soldiers and Marines play a deadly game of Whack-a-Mole with local insurgents who just want them out of their country. I just don't think there was a better option to remove Anwar al-Awlaki as a threat, because you can't realistically do a Zero Dark Thirty type operation for everyone in that is a threat.

So, does your navel actually start glowing after you start gazing at it that much?   You do realize that Al Qaeda, as "an organization" doesn't actually exist, right?
 
2013-06-17 12:08:19 PM

homelessdude: FTFA: "I feel that the United States drone war is a form of terrorism, plain and simple. I don't want my community taking part in that," Jorgensen-Briggs said.

Just the drone program?

as opposed to......?
[i.imgur.com image 139x185]

I don't like the long term, extended drone program either, but weighed against the the overwhelming number of bases in the area, drones are the smallest of worries.Maybe an effort to alter out fetishistic behavior towards military funding would be a start.

[i.imgur.com image 162x148]

However, as long as the US populace holds on to the myth of no-US-casualty war operations, there are going to be operations like the the drone program to satisfy our blood lust while lulling us into thinking our troops our bullet proof. And it allows us to ignore the numbers of casualties from those heathens who hate democracy and freedom (eye-roll) Iraq Body Count

And as long as War Pigs like John McCain are applauded for drumming up reasons to blow things up, we will continue on the same path.
Bomb bomb bomb Iran
[i.imgur.com image 260x157][i.imgur.com image 200x157]


here's hoping your kid is a fortunate son, eh?

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, one


You know, between authorizing women for combat and giving amnesty to millions of illegals, I'm pretty sure the draft is about to start up and a war is just over the horizon. I'm not sure who the enemy is but that's not important right now.

Of course, senators' sons won't serve this time either (with a few exceptions) but women are going to be drafted this time. We don't have the dudes to face a billion or so people.

The real tragedy is when faced with the possibility of 1 million casualties we punted and nuked Japan instead. And considering 20 or so men banded together and killed 3000+ Americans on 9-11, we won't be leaving too many small groups of enemy and civilians alive. We will kill as many as possible.
 
2013-06-17 12:11:46 PM

CarnySaur: If they're moving slow enough, they'll probably also be attacked by Monsanto wheat.


......great. Now I'm thinking of The Happening.

/M. Night Shyamalan used to be a great director
//For two movies, at least
 
2013-06-17 12:24:50 PM
And what here is ironic again?
 
2013-06-17 12:25:22 PM
They need to relax.  Only Noobs take the Hunter-Killer drone as a scorestreak reward
 
2013-06-17 12:27:32 PM

Begoggle: Oldiron_79: But drones arent fascist now that Obama is doing it.

Drones are bad now that Obama is doing it.


images.sodahead.com
Obama as seen in 2008.

4.bp.blogspot.com
Obama as seen now, 2013.
 
2013-06-17 12:41:58 PM

Kahabut: I wish people would stop focusing on the tools at hand, and rather focus on who and why.

Drones aren't anything.  Just applied technology.  The justification for their use, the reasoning, the perpetual war, the war profiteering, those are the issues worth talking about.


I think both discussions are important. If control of the technology applied to drones can be disrupted as was demonstrated by the U of Texas I'd question shifting too much of our national defense to reliance on them.
 
2013-06-17 12:46:58 PM
When you have a war, innocents get killed. When you have an enemy that insists on fighting in urban settings to use civilians as shields, more innocents get killed.

Terrorists have a long history of using IEDs and suicide bombers in crowded civilian areas to kill a few US troops while slaughtering even more of their own people.

Terrorists, as we've seen, over here and in other nations, have no problem detonating bombs among groups of civilians when no military personnel are present.

I don't suppose anyone recalls the IRA bringing down a civilian aircraft some years ago with a bomb? Nor their tactic of dropping satchel bombs at busy civilian intersections.

The Vietcong Black Shirts, trained by Communist China, introduced the personal bomb that also included women, infants and children to kill American soldiers. They wired up a kid, sent him out to beg US troops for help and when he had a crowd around him, he detonated.

But I suppose it's better to send over a multimillion dollar jet, flown by an expensively trained pilot, requiring a support force costing hundreds of thousands of dollars a day, that can be detected by radar or heard coming from miles away to fire a smart rocket at a dissident, which in itself cost around $50,000.

In every war with aircraft we always had some dumb lucky enemy soldier fire at a low flying jet and actually bring it down. Millions of bucks turned into garbage by a $1.00 bullet.

The support systems alone for our troops at war, in the battle area cost millions a day. Not to mention how many of them get shot to hell during action.

In WW2 millions of civilians got killed in the bombing of cities. Both Allies and Axis carpet bombed civilian centers, usually to get at the industrial complexes placed there. In Vietnam, villages were leveled because the Vietcong forced the civilians to hide them under threat of death.

We universally banned the use of poison gas after WW1 -- yet every dirt country with an idiot dictator seems to churn it out to wipe out sections of their own people who disagree with their bloody policies. Read up on the hideous effects of such gasses. Death by gas is not quick, easy nor painless.

I don't have a problem with drones. I'm aware of their potential for abuse. Then again, I'm also aware of the potential for abuse of the majority of 'normal' technology that can be weaponized. Like cell phones used to trigger IEDs. Just like much of your technology can and is used to spy on you today. Dealers can shut your car off if you're behind in payments. People can tap into your home security wireless system -- including baby monitors. Your laptop camera can be turned on without you knowing and someone watch you from a distance.

Cars are being stolen because thieves use the electronic, keyless technology against the owners.

As for civilians turning against us, it doesn't take much. For decades in Africa we sent in shipments of food, medicine, farming equipment and the Peace Corps. Some years later, when a coup started and US troops went in, we wound up fighting the same people we fed and healed decades before, equipped now with Russian weapons.

They had no problem killing off their previous saviors. Members of the non-combatant Peace Corps were even slaughtered. Genocide became a common term.

No. I don't have a problem with drones.

Maybe they could be used in Africa where poachers are determinedly wiping out the Rhino and other endangered species and killing park rangers who try and stop them. You can cover a lot of territory much faster with one than by jeep and by foot.
 
2013-06-17 01:07:16 PM
Somebody please tell me the difference between a helicopter flight over a city by the police, and an unmanned, unarmed drone flight over the same city.  Aside from the drone being significantly cheaper in the long term, and cheaper to replace if needed.
 
2013-06-17 01:36:16 PM

offmymeds: Begoggle: Oldiron_79: But drones arent fascist now that Obama is doing it.

Drones are bad now that Obama is doing it.

[images.sodahead.com image 325x350]
Obama as seen in 2008.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 384x345]
Obama as seen now, 2013.


2/10
Pretty weak, sorry.
 
2013-06-17 01:48:03 PM

Mad_Radhu: Have they actually killed anyone who wasn't actively working with terrorists whose goal was to kill Americans? If you decide to betray your country like that and murder innocents just to make a political point, instead of working to change things in a legal manner within the system, then I think there should be a point where it stops being a legal matter and instead becomes a matter of national defense because you are basically declaring war on the US and its citizens. When you cross that line, I don't feel at all bad when you get a Hellfire up your ass instead of being mirandized.


Well here's the rub: how do you know they're actually terrorists working to kill Americans? Saying "because they're at location x" isn't exactly "beyond shadow of a doubt" stuff. It's not so much the fact that we're using drones that's worrisome rather than how the usage of drones has illuminated a far bigger issue: when it comes down to "anti-terrorist" activities, we've thrown away due process. Don't you have to prove that someone's guilty first before sentencing him to die via missile? Even a military tribunal would work, or at least a judge with secret clearance. We don't need to go full jury-of-your-peers on this.
 
2013-06-17 02:02:52 PM

Begoggle: offmymeds: Begoggle: Oldiron_79: But drones arent fascist now that Obama is doing it.

Drones are bad now that Obama is doing it.

[images.sodahead.com image 325x350]
Obama as seen in 2008.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 384x345]
Obama as seen now, 2013.

2/10
Pretty weak, sorry.


I wasn't trying for a troll. I voted for the man in both elections. What I was trying for was that people now are seeing him as some sort of human rights violator.

I think folks pretty much expect a little too much from him and don't give him enough credit for trying to work with a Congress that damns him if he does and damns him if he doesn't.

I don't think he's going to go around giving orders to kill U.S. citizens who are just sitting there waiting for
a bus.
 
2013-06-17 02:29:44 PM
In the early 80s in the UK, the peacenik CND was infiltrated agents of the East German STASI. All those grass-roots protests against the Pershing missile were being orchestrated by the Soviets. They weren't simply demonstating for peace and granola reasons, they were trying to stop a weapon that scared the Russians shiatless.

Follow the money. It's a generation later but the same game is being played by foreign powers who find willing dupes in the freaknik fringe of the west. Drones work, and they too scare the bad guys shiatless.


President of Veterans For Peace attends celebration of Islamic Revolution of Iran.


Veterans For Peace meet with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
 
2013-06-17 02:45:39 PM

Lost Thought 00: NIMBYs,the lot of them. None o them would complain if the base were located elsewhere


Bet most of them never protested the fighter wing the drones are replacing. Because F-16s are totally peaceful tech.
 
2013-06-17 03:32:02 PM
Bah! This new fangled war technology takes all the humanity out of killing!

I imagine this has been said about every other advancement in lethal range.  I'm sure there was plenty of public outcry about the ballista or catapult.
 
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