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(Oddball Sports)   1935: Babe Ruth finishes beer/hot dog fueled career with 714 home runs. 1998: David Wells gets hammered the night before his perfect game. 2013: Frank Thomas owns a beer company. Yep, baseball hasn't changed much   (oddballsportsblog.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Babe Ruth, perfect game, Major League Baseball, home runs, A.J. Pierzynski, Wade Boggs, bad publicity, baseball  
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1003 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 Jun 2013 at 10:11 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-17 10:15:38 AM  
Doing LSD while throwing a perfect game?

Doc Ellis.
 
2013-06-17 10:20:08 AM  
big hurt beer sounds like it'll give you some big squirts the next day
 
2013-06-17 10:33:13 AM  
How about the countless times Cap Anson spent the entire night before a game at a Klan rally and went on to get four hits in a game.
 
2013-06-17 10:34:16 AM  
makes sense.  my serve in tennis is the best when i'm drunk or hungover.  and i can make some really great shots

/ however, the part of the game that involves movement suffers dramatically, and I have taken a timeout to hurl before.  whoops.
 
2013-06-17 10:35:40 AM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: big hurt beer sounds like it'll give you some big squirts the next day


thats Old Style.
 
2013-06-17 10:37:03 AM  
I remember reading about a player in the 1910s that was suspected of gambling, so they followed him around while he made the rounds of the local saloons before a game, then confronted him.

The report said that he ate at a number of these saloons, and the player replied that they were wrong, because he didn't eat so much as an olive in any of them

So yeah, same old, same old.
 
2013-06-17 10:38:08 AM  
Being a ________ fan requires drinking.
 
2013-06-17 10:51:02 AM  
It's changed quite a bit.  For example, Babe Ruth had to use mafia connections to intimidate pitchers into serving up meatballs for his artificial home run total.  Thomas had to use steroids.
 
2013-06-17 11:07:22 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: It's changed quite a bit.  For example, Babe Ruth had to use mafia connections to intimidate pitchers into serving up meatballs for his artificial home run total.  Thomas had to use steroids.


Ohboyherewego.jpg
 
2013-06-17 11:10:51 AM  
CSB


I waited on Frank Thomas at a restaurant almost two years ago while he was pitching his beer to investors. Its malt liquor in a tall can.
 
2013-06-17 11:34:13 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: It's changed quite a bit.  For example, Babe Ruth had to use mafia connections to intimidate pitchers into serving up meatballs for his artificial home run total.  Thomas had to use steroids.


Dude - if there is one player in the last 2 decades that I would be willing to put money on that he was clean - it is Frank Thomas.
 
2013-06-17 11:36:46 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: It's changed quite a bit.  For example, Babe Ruth had to use mafia connections to intimidate pitchers into serving up meatballs for his artificial home run total.  Thomas had to use steroids.

i1183.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-17 11:40:13 AM  

frozenhotchocolate: CSB


I waited on Frank Thomas at a restaurant almost two years ago while he was pitching his beer to investors. Its malt liquor in a tall can.


www.artzberger.com

How original.

2.bp.blogspot.com
farm4.static.flickr.com

'Oooooooooooooooo'
 
2013-06-17 11:44:24 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Doing LSD while throwing a perfect game no-hitter?

Dock Ellis.


From wikipedia: "He threw a no-hitter despite being unable to feel the ball or see the batter or catcher clearly."  I'd be pretty worried if I was a batter and knew this during the game (not that anyone could have).
 
2013-06-17 11:52:13 AM  

p the boiler: Dude - if there is one player in the last 2 decades that I would be willing to put money on that he was clean - it is Frank Thomas.


yeah, Big Hurt's body never changed.  see also, mark grace, nolan ryan, ryne sandberg, cal ripken, larry walker.

compared that too Bonds, McGwire, Giambi, Clemens, brady andersen, that colorado rockies dude that added 30lbs of muscle one off-season, then started destroying teh ball....

then you have the Luis Gonzalez problem.  the one-time spike to what, 56HRs the World Series year, which he never duplicated, and while he didn't get huge, he was definitely ripped as shiat.  thing is, he still largely looks the same.  granted he's ten years older and has been out of the game since about 2008 or so, but he's still a pretty good specimen.  but he, perhaps above all "questionable" players, will always have that stigma because of that one year.

1997: 10HR (tigers, different ballpark)
1998:  23HR
1999:  26HR
2000:  31HR
2001:  57HR
2002:  28HR
2003:  26HR
2004:  17HR
2005:  24HR

now, after 2002 his games and thus ABs slightly decreased (148games, 155, 105, 155, 153), but.....still.  it makes you wonder.  or in 2000, he played 162 yet in 2001, he hit 26more HRs in only a grand total of six, count 'em, six more ABs.  and then in 2002 he falls off by 29HRs (although he played only 148 games).

i love my snakes and love gonzo, but....you just have to wonder.
 
2013-06-17 11:52:45 AM  

snake_beater: Ohboyherewego.jpg


p the boiler:  Dude - if there is one player in the last 2 decades that I would be willing to put money on that he was clean - it is Frank Thomas.

Klippoklondike: [megafacepalm.jpg]


\o/

/Frank Thomas fan
//except this week, because Chicago is stupid.
 
2013-06-17 11:56:48 AM  
Beer.  Is there anything it can't do.
 
2013-06-17 12:13:32 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: It's changed quite a bit.  For example, Babe Ruth had to use mafia connections to intimidate pitchers into serving up meatballs for his artificial home run total.  Thomas had to use steroids.


Congratulations, ignorant moron.  You managed to name the one player in baseball who fully cooperated with the Mitchell Report, and agreed to be interviewed as part of its drafting.

He was never named in any case involving PEDs, and there have been quite a few of those.
 
2013-06-17 12:18:49 PM  

rickythepenguin: then you have the Luis Gonzalez problem.


Also there's the Brady Anderson problem

1992: 21
1993: 13
1994: 12
1995: 16
1996: 50
1997: 18
1998: 18
1999: 24
2000: 19
 
2013-06-17 12:23:11 PM  

p the boiler: Dude - if there is one player in the last 2 decades that I would be willing to put money on that he was clean - it is Frank Thomas.


He'll go in to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot next year.  Granted, it should be because he was a great hitter.  Career .301/.419/.555 line (156 OPS+) with 521 HR.  Two MVPs at the heart of a seven-year run where he was always in the discussion for the best hitter in the AL.

But he'll go in because he was the one player that has consistently walked the walk in terms of cooperating with the efforts against PEDs.  He'll go in, and Bonds/etc. will be passed over again, to send that message.

And Thomas himself isn't circling the wagons with the other players.


Thomas was asked if he felt bad for either Bonds or Sosa and the criticism they are getting now.

"I wouldn't say I feel bad for them," Thomas said. "I respected them on the field, but they chose this. They made their own decisions off the field and they have to live with it."

As his career was coming to a close, debate centered around whether or not Thomas' numbers were a no-brainer when it came to Hall induction. Not everybody was convinced, even as Thomas amassed a .301 batting average, a .974 OPS, 495 doubles and 1,704 RBIs to go along with those 521 home runs. Now that the steroid era has been exposed, Thomas believes it will make his Hall of Fame case even stronger.

"These guys did put up some incredible numbers, but they're fake," Thomas said. "Any time you look at the PED situation, you look at Lance Armstrong, you look at stuff like that and it's serious out there. Thank God I'm blessed and I did it the right way and I had a good family base that made me outwork everybody else because that was the only way I made it to the big leagues. I was never that blue-chip prospect. I had to do a lot of extra work to get to the big leagues."


 
2013-06-17 12:24:52 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Also there's the Brady Anderson problem



yeah, and I included him in my eyeball test post above.  he got ripped.  i mean, he got freaking shredded.  and then he disappeared.

/and there were other, uh..."rumors" about him.  hint:  mike piazza's infamous news conference.  just sayin'.
 
2013-06-17 12:31:20 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: rickythepenguin: then you have the Luis Gonzalez problem.

Also there's the Brady Anderson problem

1992: 21
1993: 13
1994: 12
1995: 16
1996: 50
1997: 18
1998: 18
1999: 24
2000: 19


1) It's certainly probably that Brady Anderson was juicing, given the widespread use during that era.

2) That said, Davey Johnson's HR numbers from 1966-1974, in an era of pitching dominance: 7,10,9,7,10,18,5,43,15.

3) Or let's go old-school: Ned Williamson's HR totals from 1878-1890: 1,1,0,1,3,2,27,3,6,9,8,1,2.  (Granted, there were funky rules in a funky park, and he had a ridiculously short RF porch.)

Sometimes a guy just has an amazing season.  It's not ironclad proof of anything.
 
2013-06-17 12:34:45 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Also there's the Brady Anderson problem


another thing about Gonzo though, is aside from him not really changing in body size, he somehow figured out how to hit the ball in Arizona.  he went from like, .240 to .270 in HOU and DET, then after getting traded here, started living in the low .300s neighborhood.  i think in 2000, he had a pretty substantial hitting streak, of like, 35 straight or some shiat.  and, he wasn't a power guy (well, aside from the 57 year).  he'd spray balls all over the place.  He figured out how to hit.

keep in mind that one of the Cooperstown milestones he was desperately chasing was the 600 doubles club. Now, relaizing that the "600 doubles" club is about criterion # 25 for enshrinement, and his 354HRs, lifetime .283BA and one WS ring, that just wouldn't get him there.  But when he was in the end of his career, that one statistic - the 600 doubles club - was constantly talked about in Arizona.  After the Marlins let him go, there was talk of him coming back here to get those 4 doubles.  It never happened of course, but my point is back to the hitting thing.

He wasn't a pure power hiter (steroids).  He figured it out, and I can't say that was due to steroids.
 
2013-06-17 12:39:31 PM  

rickythepenguin: i think in 2000, he had a pretty substantial hitting streak, of like, 35 straight or some shiat.



bleh.

1999, 30 games, but still at the time only the 37th player to have that long of  a streak.  good hitter.  his lifetime .283 is a bit misleading due to his first 6-7 years hitting .260 and then his last few years, once agin regressing to that area.  He was fearsome for awhile.

/heart of hearts, Cooperstown?  No.  Gonzo is the proverbial "hall of Fame, not 'hall of fearsome for a few years'"
//met him 2-3 times as a civilian.  really nice.  time for everybody.  i've never seen him turn a handshake or photo away, child, grownup, older person. truly an ambassador not just for the Snakes, but for MLB.
 
2013-06-17 12:55:55 PM  

chimp_ninja: Nana's Vibrator: It's changed quite a bit.  For example, Babe Ruth had to use mafia connections to intimidate pitchers into serving up meatballs for his artificial home run total.  Thomas had to use steroids.

Congratulations, ignorant moron.  You managed to name the one player in baseball who fully cooperated with the Mitchell Report, and agreed to be interviewed as part of its drafting.

He was never named in any case involving PEDs, and there have been quite a few of those.


You seem to know much about being a moron.  Why would a man free of steroids to draft a report about steroids?  You know who else agreed to be interviewed?  Theo Epstein, who admitted he knowingly traded for Eric Gagne after discovering that he was involved in steroid abuse.  It was well known and documented that Thomas abused steroids, rumored to have been to the point he was in the hospital with liver disease, though it was officially reported as a triceps injury.  In fact, in inner baseball circles, even Thomas' well known charity work attributed to his sister having died from leukemia was actually founded because he himself had contracted a rare form of leukemia that is widely associated with steroid abuse.  Christ, just go to Google and you'll find related searches for Jeff Bagwell, Sammy Sosa, and Bullwinkle Moose.  Idiot.
 
2013-06-17 01:07:27 PM  

p the boiler: Dude - if there is one player in the last 2 decades that I would be willing to put money on that he was clean - it is Frank Thomas.

Tony Gwynn

Unless you can get strawberry-filled glazed PEDs.
 
2013-06-17 01:09:30 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Unless you can get strawberry-filled glazed PEDs.



we always have this debate;  how many base hits did Tony eat himself out of?  he was huuuuuuuuuuge, the last few years of his career.  like, people crack on how tubby John Kruk was, but Gwynn down the tail end of his career make Krukky look like Gwyneth Paltrow.
 
2013-06-17 01:13:16 PM  
Have this bad-boy at home...

www.homeruncards.com
 
2013-06-17 01:16:18 PM  
Gonzo juiced, its not even up for debate. Look at the vascularity in his arms after the D'backs won the series. That ain't natural, and it's the classic steroid arms.

tbfiles.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-06-17 01:35:39 PM  

chimp_ninja: p the boiler: Dude - if there is one player in the last 2 decades that I would be willing to put money on that he was clean - it is Frank Thomas.

He'll go in to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot next year.  Granted, it should be because he was a great hitter.  Career .301/.419/.555 line (156 OPS+) with 521 HR.  Two MVPs at the heart of a seven-year run where he was always in the discussion for the best hitter in the AL.

But he'll go in because he was the one player that has consistently walked the walk in terms of cooperating with the efforts against PEDs.  He'll go in, and Bonds/etc. will be passed over again, to send that message.

And Thomas himself isn't circling the wagons with the other players.


Thomas was asked if he felt bad for either Bonds or Sosa and the criticism they are getting now.

"I wouldn't say I feel bad for them," Thomas said. "I respected them on the field, but they chose this. They made their own decisions off the field and they have to live with it."

As his career was coming to a close, debate centered around whether or not Thomas' numbers were a no-brainer when it came to Hall induction. Not everybody was convinced, even as Thomas amassed a .301 batting average, a .974 OPS, 495 doubles and 1,704 RBIs to go along with those 521 home runs. Now that the steroid era has been exposed, Thomas believes it will make his Hall of Fame case even stronger.

"These guys did put up some incredible numbers, but they're fake," Thomas said. "Any time you look at the PED situation, you look at Lance Armstrong, you look at stuff like that and it's serious out there. Thank God I'm blessed and I did it the right way and I had a good family base that made me outwork everybody else because that was the only way I made it to the big leagues. I was never that blue-chip prospect. I had to do a lot of extra work to get to the big leagues."


It's a shame that Thomas' media persona as a player was perceived as so antagonistic, because he should have been the respected iconic baseball player in Chicago during that time, not that phony Sammy on the other side of town.

At least it seems like now he's genuinely enjoying himself and getting along with people. The way he was driven out of town by Kenny Williams was disgusting.

/Still probably not as disgusting as the beer, though.
 
2013-06-17 01:42:01 PM  
Nothing says he owns a "beer company", he just got one to name a product after him. Reggie Jackson didn't own a candy company either.
 
2013-06-17 01:44:39 PM  

Hoopy Frood: Nothing says he owns a "beer company", he just got one to name a product after him. Reggie Jackson didn't own a candy company either.


This does  http://inleague.com/player/frank-the-big-hurt-thomas/
 
2013-06-17 01:45:10 PM  

rickythepenguin: how many base hits did Tony eat himself out of? he was huuuuuuuuuuge, the last few years of his career. like, people crack on how tubby John Kruk was, but Gwynn down the tail end of his career make Krukky look like Gwyneth Paltrow.


Probably not many.  He played until he was 41, and when he was on the field he could still hit just fine.  Ever after the strike-shortened season where he hit .394, he hit .350 after his 35th birthday-- better than he hit as a young man.  The extra bulk may have been a part of him hitting more doubles, and it also stopped him from bunting so much.

(In 1989, Gwynn was hitting #3 in front of walks-machine power guy Jack Clark, and he had 11 sacrifice bunts.  Why is your team's best hitter bunting in front of Jack Clark?  He draws walks (wastes your bunt), hits homers (wastes your bunt), and strikes out.)

The one thing it could have done was kept him on the field longer, since most of the games he missed due to injury were from his knees and heels.  Still, from age 35-39 he played in an average of 128 games/year... maybe without the DL stints he wrings out another 200 hits, but you can say that about tons of late-30s baseball players.

I mean, his defense went to hell and he became a much less valuable player, but he never lost the ability to whack singles.
 
2013-06-17 01:52:57 PM  

SlagginOff: It's a shame that Thomas' media persona as a player was perceived as so antagonistic, because he should have been the respected iconic baseball player in Chicago during that time, not that phony Sammy on the other side of town.


I think this is one case where history will get it right.  Sammy Sosa will be the Shoeless Joe of his era, more famous for scandal than his accomplishments.  Frank Thomas can be Eddie Collins-- less of a household name, but still recognized today as a great player.

(Bonds is a more interesting case, because it's pretty clear that Sammy Sosa would be a forgotten journeyman if he hadn't started pounding home runs, whereas Bonds was likely the best position player of his generation before he started using.)
 
2013-06-17 01:58:20 PM  

chimp_ninja: Still, from age 35-39 he played in an average of 128 games/year... maybe without the DL stints he wrings out another 200 hits, but you can say that about tons of late-30s baseball players


yeah, but i think you're proving my point.  "tons of late 30s baseball players" weren't regularly hitting, you know, .360, .380, with the occasional brush with .400.  this former college guard (does he not still hold the Aztecs' assist record?  thgouth i heard that recently) was somewhat fleet of foot.  whether DL stints due to wear and tear or inability to tread the basepaths, you have to wonder how many hits he left on the field.

he and Shaq are alike in that respect. For as good as Shaq is and all that is on his resume, how much more could he have accomplished with just a little bit better physical conditioning?  (of course, him leaving Kobe is another argument entirely....)
 
2013-06-17 02:01:41 PM  

chimp_ninja: whereas Bonds was likely the best position player of his generation before he started using.)


i know costas loves, LOVES to carve Bonds on this point (if you ever say within Costas' hearing distance that Bonds was an HOFer before he started roiding, be prepared for 20 minutes of vehement anti-argument and bloviating by Costas) but......the best?

Offensively certainly a dynamo but, fair or not, his weenie arm throw to miss the mighty Sid Bream, that' I have a hard time saying is the best position player.
 
2013-06-17 02:06:20 PM  

rickythepenguin: (if you ever say within Costas' hearing distance that Bonds was an HOFer before he started roiding, be prepared for 20 minutes of vehement anti-argument and bloviating by Costas)


I'm fairly certain if I simply make a comment about the weather around Costas, I'm in for 20 minutes of vehement anti-argument and bloviating from him.
 
2013-06-17 02:17:05 PM  

Killer Cars: rickythepenguin: (if you ever say within Costas' hearing distance that Bonds was an HOFer before he started roiding, be prepared for 20 minutes of vehement anti-argument and bloviating by Costas)

I'm fairly certain if I simply make a comment about the weather around Costas, I'm in for 20 minutes of vehement anti-argument and bloviating from him.


Costas is a solid journalist (he had what, 15 minutes to prepare for the Sandusky interview, and got him to hang himself), but he takes himself WAY too seriously for a journalist who reports on grown men playing games.
 
2013-06-17 02:18:34 PM  

Killer Cars: I'm in for 20 minutes of vehement anti-argument and bloviating from him.


i can't stand him.  i can't freaking stand him.  but  yeah, he loves to carve Bonds on that.  but you never hear him go after Big Mac, except in vague terms.  Bonds gets name rank serial number, McGwire only gets "the late 90s home run resurgence that saved baseball, restoring faith in our country, our homes, and our America, which sadly, years after the fact, through inaction from the game's stewards, was sadly revealed to be fool's gold but for one shining moment, was all that was right with America....."
 
2013-06-17 02:20:06 PM  

Orgasmatron138: he had what, 15 minutes to prepare for the Sandusky interview, and got him to hang himself


i think Marlee Matlin could have got Sandusky to hang himself.
 
2013-06-17 02:21:00 PM  

rickythepenguin: chimp_ninja: whereas Bonds was likely the best position player of his generation before he started using.)

i know costas loves, LOVES to carve Bonds on this point (if you ever say within Costas' hearing distance that Bonds was an HOFer before he started roiding, be prepared for 20 minutes of vehement anti-argument and bloviating by Costas) but......the best?

Offensively certainly a dynamo but, fair or not, his weenie arm throw to miss the mighty Sid Bream, that' I have a hard time saying is the best position player.


So who would the best be?  It's not Thomas, as his defense wasn't particularly good either.  Griffey?
 
2013-06-17 02:23:47 PM  

Dafatone: So who would the best be? It's not Thomas, as his defense wasn't particularly good either. Griffey?


i was thinking.....I don't know.  aside from Ripken (ok, now start the "SS or 3B?" argument), Alomar had 2b locked down pretty well.  OF is a tough one.  I'd have to go back and check the All Star squads from 1990-2005 to decide.

also, is it "DAFFA-tone", or "da-FAT-one"?  THIS VEXES ME
 
2013-06-17 02:26:14 PM  

rickythepenguin: Dafatone: So who would the best be? It's not Thomas, as his defense wasn't particularly good either. Griffey?

i was thinking.....I don't know.  aside from Ripken (ok, now start the "SS or 3B?" argument), Alomar had 2b locked down pretty well.  OF is a tough one.  I'd have to go back and check the All Star squads from 1990-2005 to decide.

also, is it "DAFFA-tone", or "da-FAT-one"?  THIS VEXES ME


Probably DAFFA.  I came up with the name when I was like 9, trying to name some character in some videogame who was fat.  Thefatone was one character too long.

But DAFFA, anyway, because I said so.

I'd probably go with Griffey, if I had to pick one player.  Griffey, Thomas, and Bonds are the top three.
 
2013-06-17 02:26:42 PM  

rickythepenguin: Offensively certainly a dynamo but, fair or not, his weenie arm throw to miss the mighty Sid Bream, that' I have a hard time saying is the best position player.


Fun fact: Bonds is 4th all-time in assists from LF.  Not the most useful stat (part of that is that he played forever), but he did lead the NL 6 times.  Weenie throw aside, he didn't have a bad arm.

But that overlooks his key asset as a defender-- his range.  He's the all-time leader in putouts in LF, and had an 18-year run where he was top-5 in the NL 17 times.  He had a great first step, and speed to spare.  Gold Glove voting is wonky as hell, but he won 8, and that's an award where they usually just pick 3 CFs.

There's a lot of ways to measure defense, but most of them agree that Bonds was possibly the best defender in LF the game's ever seen when he was with the Pirates, and he held up pretty well as an older player until he Hulked out.

Throw in that Smaller Bonds was good every year for a .300 average, 30 HR, 30 SB, 100-150 walks, etc.  Virtually any year in the 1990s, if you dissolved the league and held a re-draft, playground style, for one-year contracts, Bonds would be the first position player taken.  Maybe Griffey is in that conversation.  Maybe A-Rod at the tail end of the decade.  But it's almost always Bonds.

The sad thing is: He could have gone out like Frank Thomas.  He could have called other players on the carpet as cheaters, hit 500 HR as a premier all-around player, and waltzed into the HOF on his first ballot as Willie Mays Lite.  (Note: Willie Mays Lite is still awesome.)  But instead he took a pile of drugs, got two records that no one considers legitimate, and will spend the second half of his life as a synonym for "cheater".
 
2013-06-17 02:33:00 PM  

Dafatone: But DAFFA, anyway, because I said so.


as a semi-regular in the sports threads, wehn i see you i'm like, "dammit how do you say his name?"


chimp_ninja: spend the second half of his life as a synonym for "cheater".

yeah.....he'd be working the MLB front office if he wanted to (had he left without roiding).  well....ok, probalby not, as he always was a jerk.  but your point stands.

i remember seeing the pictures of him what, 1-2 years ago with his new love of cycling.  dude dropped what, 40lbs?  due to cycling.  yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.  uh huh.

/more like "no longer cycling.....ROIDS, that is!"
 
2013-06-17 02:33:23 PM  

Dafatone: So who would the best be? It's not Thomas, as his defense wasn't particularly good either. Griffey?


I love Thomas as a hitter, but he was a butcher at 1B, and played 101 games as a DH at age 23.  2,322 games, but only 968 starts in the field.  "Wasn't particularly good" is an understatement.  His offensive numbers can't make up for that.  Still a Hall of Famer, but not the same player as Smaller Bonds or Mariners Griffey.

Otherwise, I agree that Griffey is the obvious contender.  Bonds was a somewhat better hitter and baserunner, but Mariners Griffey gets points for playing a fine CF.
 
2013-06-17 02:45:06 PM  

chimp_ninja: Dafatone: So who would the best be? It's not Thomas, as his defense wasn't particularly good either. Griffey?

I love Thomas as a hitter, but he was a butcher at 1B, and played 101 games as a DH at age 23.  2,322 games, but only 968 starts in the field.  "Wasn't particularly good" is an understatement.  His offensive numbers can't make up for that.  Still a Hall of Famer, but not the same player as Smaller Bonds or Mariners Griffey.

Otherwise, I agree that Griffey is the obvious contender.  Bonds was a somewhat better hitter and baserunner, but Mariners Griffey gets points for playing a fine CF.


If we're going by WAR, Bonds wins hugely.  Smaller Bonds, even.  Let's say 1999 is the cutoff for smaller Bonds.  He only played 102 games, and had a somewhat down year (still OPSed 1.006, which was his worst OPS since 1991!)  He was 34 that year.

Through 1999, his WAR was 103.4.  Griffey's career WAR was 83.7.

Now, WAR might not be the best way to go about this, but I think the gap is significant enough.  Griffey's a better defender, playing a tougher position, but Bonds was a very very good LF (if such a thing even exists.)
 
2013-06-17 03:33:36 PM  

chimp_ninja: Sometimes a guy just has an amazing season. It's not ironclad proof of anything.


Yeah, pretty much this.  Also, no one was testing.  So if Gonzalez was juicing... why for only one year?
 
2013-06-17 03:55:17 PM  

SlagginOff: chimp_ninja: p the boiler: Dude - if there is one player in the last 2 decades that I would be willing to put money on that he was clean - it is Frank Thomas.

He'll go in to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot next year.  Granted, it should be because he was a great hitter.  Career .301/.419/.555 line (156 OPS+) with 521 HR.  Two MVPs at the heart of a seven-year run where he was always in the discussion for the best hitter in the AL.

But he'll go in because he was the one player that has consistently walked the walk in terms of cooperating with the efforts against PEDs.  He'll go in, and Bonds/etc. will be passed over again, to send that message.

And Thomas himself isn't circling the wagons with the other players.


Thomas was asked if he felt bad for either Bonds or Sosa and the criticism they are getting now.

"I wouldn't say I feel bad for them," Thomas said. "I respected them on the field, but they chose this. They made their own decisions off the field and they have to live with it."

As his career was coming to a close, debate centered around whether or not Thomas' numbers were a no-brainer when it came to Hall induction. Not everybody was convinced, even as Thomas amassed a .301 batting average, a .974 OPS, 495 doubles and 1,704 RBIs to go along with those 521 home runs. Now that the steroid era has been exposed, Thomas believes it will make his Hall of Fame case even stronger.

"These guys did put up some incredible numbers, but they're fake," Thomas said. "Any time you look at the PED situation, you look at Lance Armstrong, you look at stuff like that and it's serious out there. Thank God I'm blessed and I did it the right way and I had a good family base that made me outwork everybody else because that was the only way I made it to the big leagues. I was never that blue-chip prospect. I had to do a lot of extra work to get to the big leagues."

It's a shame that Thomas' media persona as a player was perceived as so antagonistic, because he should have ...


Thats the sucky part. At the time Thomas knew what was going on and probably knew that if he spoke out he'd be ostracized. But back then he "had a chip on his shoulder."
He's probably happy now because he is finally getting to say those guys are a bunch of cheating phonies.
 
2013-06-17 05:22:24 PM  
I'm still livid that Bonds gets more shiat than McGwire or Sosa ever did.
 
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