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(AlterNet)   Looks like everything Fark knows about drugs is wrong. Well, except for weed. We pretty well have weed all figured out   (alternet.org) divider line 27
    More: Interesting, Americans, High Price, AlterNet, ignoratio elenchi, misdemeanors  
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10581 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2013 at 5:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-06-16 05:37:45 PM
4 votes:
Sorry, had to stop at the, 'moms using crack while pregnant doesnt hurt the baby, being poor does' line.  I mean, I was already getting pissed at the it's not the drugs fault, its cause they're poor stance, but that was the kicker for me and I couldnt read any further.

I think most people have a basic understanding that correlation and causation are two different, but related concepts, and create grey areas at best.  Do drugs create problems on their own? For some.  Does being poor lead to drug addiction? For some.  Can the introduction of drugs into an otherwise stable environment lead to a downward spiral that leads to a poor, drug addicted, neglectful family unit? For some.  The bottom line is that certain drugs have the ability to alter brain and body chemistry in a way that has drastically negative effects, many of them long term, on a majority of the population.  Are there statistical outliers? Sure.  Are there people who draw inspiration from poor situations, who are given a chance and rise above where they came from? Sure.  But there are plenty of outliers on the other side, people who had it all and ruined it through substance abuse.

Do any of those things change the nature of these substances and how the effect the majority of the population, no.  And to claim that 'hey i did it and im ok' is disingenuous at best.

/I feel the point of the article was more to say that poor neighborhoods and drugs are interlinked to a great degree, but he spent so much time talking about being black and how drugs didnt hurt him that I stopped caring that he might a few worthwhile ideas.
2013-06-16 05:31:19 PM
4 votes:
tl;dr version: Instead of addressing "the drug problem," we'd be better off addressing poverty.

Which, duh. But blaming the victims is so much easier.
2013-06-16 08:06:42 PM
3 votes:
At this point in my life things are different. When I was really hurting cocaine helped ease the arthritis pain. It still does. Immediately. But now I have "legal" drugs. When I was younger I would try just about anything just because it was there and that was the crowd I was part of. And for the most part it was all good. I have lost friends to drugs. I have lost friends to cancer, car wrecks and old age. Sometimes not that old. I've smoked a lot of weed. Done a lot of drugs. And always held a steady job and met my responsibilities. I'm not going to say I'm better than you because I'm not. But every day of your life is a choice. I feel lucky I survived mine to get to this point. Let's see what tomorrow brings.
2013-06-16 07:27:02 PM
3 votes:

fusillade762: mikek9: Sorry, had to stop at the, 'moms using crack while pregnant doesnt hurt the baby, being poor does' line.  I mean, I was already getting pissed at the it's not the drugs fault, its cause they're poor stance, but that was the kicker for me and I couldnt read any further.

Um... the "Crack Baby" myth has been busted for a long time.

No specific disorders or conditions have been found to result for people whose mothers used cocaine while pregnant.[2] Studies focusing on children of six years and younger have not shown any direct, long-term effects of PCE on language, growth, or development as measured by test scores.[3] PCE also appears to have little effect on infant growth.[4] However, PCE is associated with premature birth, birth defects, attention deficit disorder, and other conditions. The effects of cocaine on a fetus are thought to be similar to those of tobacco and less severe than those of alcohol.

'Crack baby' scare overblown, teen research says


What's scary is the affects of alcohol on a fetus.  A baby born to a heroin addict has a better chance of being normal than a baby born to an alcoholic.
2013-06-16 06:50:47 PM
3 votes:

Kumana Wanalaia: Walter Paisley: Kumana Wanalaia:

Also, why do you think psychedelics should only be available on a limited basis?

Specifically, lsd should be available but on a limited basis. There is such a thing as too much lsd.

I can't say that shrooms or peyote or toad need to be limited, although I suspect so. If someone wants to trip for a few days that's one thing. If you're tripping all day every day for years, it's going to take it's toll. For the good of the public health, that should be restricted.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to polish my jack-boots.


Thank you for clarifying. I disagree because even if heavy drug abuse takes its toll on the body, I don't think it's the government's role to tell people what to do with their bodies. If you were implying that long-term psychedelic abuse might cause someone to act in ways in which they are harmful to others, I still think it should only be a legal matter regarding the crime perpetrated against another person. In other words, drug use shouldn't be a crime, but people should be held accountable for their actions while under the influence. If someone gets drunk and then gets arrested after groping another person, it should be the groping that is the crime.

I've done a great deal of psychedelics, dissociatives, combinations of both, and have even had periods where I would save up money and drugs to take a a few weeks or even a month in which I would take large amounts on an almost daily basis. Different people may have different experiences, but I've had no negative long-term effects nor have I had any violent or psychotic freak outs. Other people may react differently, but I suspect that those freaking out or committing crimes while tripping are only a very small percentage of those tripping on a given day. It's probably not too different percentage-wise from the number of drunken crimes vs. the number of people drinking on a given day.
2013-06-16 05:43:13 PM
3 votes:
I stopped reading at the question, "How does the lack of people of color in academia or research affect our understanding of drugs?"
2013-06-16 09:12:03 PM
2 votes:

Kumana Wanalaia: teenage mutant ninja rapist: For the life of me I could never figure out what separates the recreational drug user from an addict.

If you want to stop and you can't, you're addicted.


Qualifier: If you can't stop because you need the drug for medication. (See amphetamines for ADD, weed for various, heroin, etc.) It's like telling someone they are addicted to statins because they take it for high cholesterol; yes, they "can't" stop, but not the same motive at all.

That's a hard line to figure out too, but the one characteristic I noticed among the people I know is that addicts seem to have a death spiral about their lives. They start using drugs and it's downhill from there. People who are true recreational users or who are medicating can still be functional in the rest of your life. Also, if you use drugs around your life and forget about it when you're busy, you're fine. Plan your life around your drug use or obsess about it when you're doing something else, and you're crossing lines into addict territory.

Personally, I think his point is that society has conflated drugs with addiction and poverty, he just wasn't that clear about it.

/articulate, but he's a scientist, not an English major
2013-06-16 06:37:50 PM
2 votes:
Every so often, you find someone whose ideas you almost completely agree with.  Like this guy, for me.

Simple evidence of society valuing black people less: if you look at death penalty sentencing rates, you don't find a statistically-meaningful correlation between the race of the killer and the percentage who got death penalties.  However, if you look at the race of the  victim, you do find such a correlation: killers of black people get death sentences less often than killers of white people.

There is definitely a racist undercurrent to American culture.  I feel it; somehow, I get more nervous when black people are around, and in black neighborhoods.  It's awful and wrong, but it happens subconsciously for me.  I hate that I'm like that, and try to consciously change when I can.

Legalizing drugs, like any other large policy change, will have unintended consequences.  Would we suddenly get a lot of unemployed people from the law enforcement industry?  Would the cops remain on the force instead, and help create a police state?  These are questions we need to consider and address.  I'm certainly in favor of legalizing drugs.
2013-06-16 06:00:29 PM
2 votes:
Dopamine response is addictive. The question is if the way you get your dopamine is harmful to you or others.
2013-06-16 05:32:16 PM
2 votes:
So controlled drug use has milder effects than drug abuse? Thanks Black Romero.
2013-06-16 05:31:47 PM
2 votes:

CygnusDarius: Well, we know meth (and its ugly cousin bath salts) are pretty farked up.


From TFA:

Meth is the new crack. It is the same thing as Adderall, but we are told it causes people's faces and teeth to decay. There is no evidence to suggest meth alone, versus poor hygiene, makes people look ugly.

I did a ton of meth in my younger days and I never robbed or assaulted anyone. Hell, I never even missed a day of work because of it. And I still have all my teeth. I have experienced it causing bad breath, but my understanding is that arises from not eating often enough to break up the bacteria that builds up in your mouth.
2013-06-16 05:25:40 PM
2 votes:
Well, we know meth (and its ugly cousin bath salts) are pretty farked up.
2013-06-16 05:14:56 PM
2 votes:
I beat, and robbed my neighbor of his Adderall to make it through TFA.
2013-06-16 08:42:12 PM
1 votes:
So, 15 bucks for sex is normal?
2013-06-16 07:41:38 PM
1 votes:

jenlen: It is really sad to see the almost violent reaction many people in our society have if they see a pregnant woman lighting a cigarette, but they ignore a woman guzzling alcohol while pregnant.


When did people stop ignoring how bad it is for a pregnant woman to drink?
2013-06-16 06:50:27 PM
1 votes:
2013-06-16 06:42:45 PM
1 votes:
He's right. Especially this line:

"If you don't fully appreciate the context, and you think that drug users are awful, then you don't think about how a person takes care of their kid, takes care of their family, goes to work, but they also use drugs."

Funny, I think that pretty much describes the situation of Fark, where drinking beer (a DRUG) after a day of work is considered the norm. It's only scary drugs that  other people, especially  black people and  poor people take that are treated as horrible. If grandma gets hooked on oxy it's a problem, but if your friend is shooting heroin he's criminal scum. If your roommate in the dorm uses Adderal to study it's okay, if his white-trash cousin smokes some meth and plays vidya all night he's a loser who should be arrested.

Alcohol is one of the hardest drugs out there, yet we can sit here pretending that our having a beer or two after work is not doing drugs, and is different than if someone does a line of coke once a week when they go clubbing. It's stupid. The guy is 100% right.
2013-06-16 06:12:28 PM
1 votes:
Portugal. The end.
2013-06-16 06:01:05 PM
1 votes:

Kumana Wanalaia: Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.

That being said, bath salts, meth and crack are irredeemable and should never be legal. Heroin and coke are too extreme for recreational use, but I heard that in France the old folks homes give their residents pills of heroin so they're happy all day, and I think that's acceptable. Psychedelics should be available but on a limited basis.

The only reason pot is illegal is that hemp competed with Hearst's wood sulfide paper mill profits. I think it will be legalized, if not soon, probably in my lifetime.


If you're getting a source that isn't corrupted and have a knowledge about how much can be safely taken and whether a drug will react negatively with other substances you are taking, and don't use it so frequently that you develop a strong dependency on the substance, even things like Heroin and coke can be used in a fairly safe manner. Legalizing or decriminalizing won't magically make them 100% safe, but prohibition only creates additional problems. Some substances require more knowledge and caution to safely use them, but that doesn't mean that taking them is nearly as dangerous as anti-drug propaganda portrays them to be.

Also, why do you think psychedelics should only be available on a limited basis?
2013-06-16 05:51:47 PM
1 votes:
There are a multitude of factors as to why people try drugs, but some people just can't handle them at all (myself included) and become hopelessly hooked on them.

Would addressing poverty help? Quite possibly, but people are gonna do drugs if they want to. Saying drug problems only happen to the poor is stupid; rich folks just have money to hide their issues better.
2013-06-16 05:46:30 PM
1 votes:
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.

That being said, bath salts, meth and crack are irredeemable and should never be legal. Heroin and coke are too extreme for recreational use, but I heard that in France the old folks homes give their residents pills of heroin so they're happy all day, and I think that's acceptable. Psychedelics should be available but on a limited basis.

The only reason pot is illegal is that hemp competed with Hearst's wood sulfide paper mill profits. I think it will be legalized, if not soon, probably in my lifetime.
2013-06-16 05:41:56 PM
1 votes:
What's to figure out? You light it, you smoke it, you get high, man. Big deal! Simple as putting on your pants, fer chrissake!
2013-06-16 05:36:24 PM
1 votes:
Wow! He's sure is articulate, isn't he?
2013-06-16 05:27:39 PM
1 votes:
Certainly, we have given thousands of doses of crack cocaine and methamphetamine to people in our lab, and never had any problems with violence or anything like that.

Sweet! Where do I volunteer?
2013-06-16 05:26:19 PM
1 votes:
It sounds like he has a person agenda.
2013-06-16 05:26:12 PM
1 votes:
Erowid Experience Vaults - real detailed stories of the effects of every drug you can think of. NSFW
2013-06-16 04:58:58 PM
1 votes:
Can I just point to the article and say 'THIS'?
 
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