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(AlterNet)   Looks like everything Fark knows about drugs is wrong. Well, except for weed. We pretty well have weed all figured out   (alternet.org) divider line 94
    More: Interesting, Americans, High Price, AlterNet, ignoratio elenchi, misdemeanors  
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10586 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2013 at 5:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-16 04:58:58 PM  
Can I just point to the article and say 'THIS'?
 
2013-06-16 05:14:56 PM  
I beat, and robbed my neighbor of his Adderall to make it through TFA.
 
2013-06-16 05:25:40 PM  
Well, we know meth (and its ugly cousin bath salts) are pretty farked up.
 
2013-06-16 05:26:12 PM  
Erowid Experience Vaults - real detailed stories of the effects of every drug you can think of. NSFW
 
2013-06-16 05:26:19 PM  
It sounds like he has a person agenda.
 
2013-06-16 05:27:39 PM  
Certainly, we have given thousands of doses of crack cocaine and methamphetamine to people in our lab, and never had any problems with violence or anything like that.

Sweet! Where do I volunteer?
 
2013-06-16 05:31:19 PM  
tl;dr version: Instead of addressing "the drug problem," we'd be better off addressing poverty.

Which, duh. But blaming the victims is so much easier.
 
2013-06-16 05:31:47 PM  

CygnusDarius: Well, we know meth (and its ugly cousin bath salts) are pretty farked up.


From TFA:

Meth is the new crack. It is the same thing as Adderall, but we are told it causes people's faces and teeth to decay. There is no evidence to suggest meth alone, versus poor hygiene, makes people look ugly.

I did a ton of meth in my younger days and I never robbed or assaulted anyone. Hell, I never even missed a day of work because of it. And I still have all my teeth. I have experienced it causing bad breath, but my understanding is that arises from not eating often enough to break up the bacteria that builds up in your mouth.
 
2013-06-16 05:32:08 PM  
Everything I know about drugs is really farking weird.

Or is it everything drug weird is I know?
 
2013-06-16 05:32:16 PM  
So controlled drug use has milder effects than drug abuse? Thanks Black Romero.
 
2013-06-16 05:32:43 PM  
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

api.ning.com
 
2013-06-16 05:33:19 PM  

MrEricSir: tl;dr version: Instead of addressing "the drug problem," we'd be better off addressing poverty.

Which, duh. But blaming the victims is so much easier.


Sadly, this.
 
2013-06-16 05:34:31 PM  

MrEricSir: tl;dr version: Instead of addressing "the drug problem," we'd be better off addressing poverty.

Which, duh. But blaming the victims is so much easier.


But poor people are lazy and stupid. If they weren't, they wouldn't be poor.
ANd everyone knows that if you give them any money they'll just spend it on drugs, so it's better if we just cut out all those giveaways.
 
2013-06-16 05:35:50 PM  
Kristen Gynne: What are some of the false conclusions about drugs you are challenging?

Well, Kristen, drugs can't really make you spell your own name wrong. Oh, wait.
 
2013-06-16 05:36:24 PM  
Wow! He's sure is articulate, isn't he?
 
2013-06-16 05:37:03 PM  

CygnusDarius: Well, we know meth (and its ugly cousin bath salts) are pretty farked up.


I know some very successful people who have tried (and possibly used recreationally) meth.  I know tons of people who like a line of coke every now and again.  I know more people who have enjoyed drugs than who have become addicted maniacs.  Crack and heroin too.

/I do know some people who got very messed up by drugs though.  Not the majority though.
//I used do my share of them (never meth though).  It was alcohol that made me get sober, out of all of them.
 
2013-06-16 05:37:45 PM  
Sorry, had to stop at the, 'moms using crack while pregnant doesnt hurt the baby, being poor does' line.  I mean, I was already getting pissed at the it's not the drugs fault, its cause they're poor stance, but that was the kicker for me and I couldnt read any further.

I think most people have a basic understanding that correlation and causation are two different, but related concepts, and create grey areas at best.  Do drugs create problems on their own? For some.  Does being poor lead to drug addiction? For some.  Can the introduction of drugs into an otherwise stable environment lead to a downward spiral that leads to a poor, drug addicted, neglectful family unit? For some.  The bottom line is that certain drugs have the ability to alter brain and body chemistry in a way that has drastically negative effects, many of them long term, on a majority of the population.  Are there statistical outliers? Sure.  Are there people who draw inspiration from poor situations, who are given a chance and rise above where they came from? Sure.  But there are plenty of outliers on the other side, people who had it all and ruined it through substance abuse.

Do any of those things change the nature of these substances and how the effect the majority of the population, no.  And to claim that 'hey i did it and im ok' is disingenuous at best.

/I feel the point of the article was more to say that poor neighborhoods and drugs are interlinked to a great degree, but he spent so much time talking about being black and how drugs didnt hurt him that I stopped caring that he might a few worthwhile ideas.
 
2013-06-16 05:38:54 PM  

Atomic Spunk: Wow! He's sure is articulate, isn't he?



Almost uppity, even.
 
2013-06-16 05:39:10 PM  
Yeah, how come we never talk about the crackheads who DON'T break into your car or suck alley dick for a hit?!
 
2013-06-16 05:41:56 PM  
What's to figure out? You light it, you smoke it, you get high, man. Big deal! Simple as putting on your pants, fer chrissake!
 
2013-06-16 05:43:13 PM  
I stopped reading at the question, "How does the lack of people of color in academia or research affect our understanding of drugs?"
 
2013-06-16 05:43:13 PM  

Karl LaFong: What's to figure out? You light it, you smoke it, you get high, man. Big deal! Simple as putting on your pants, fer chrissake!


That's how you put your pants on? You must have a charred penis!!
 
2013-06-16 05:43:48 PM  
lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-06-16 05:44:44 PM  

Hack Patooey: Atomic Spunk: Wow! He's sure is articulate, isn't he?


Almost uppity, even.


But yet, he's also Successful and Attractive.(TM)
 
2013-06-16 05:46:29 PM  

Podmore: I stopped reading at the question, "How does the lack of people of color in academia or research affect our understanding of drugs?"


I stopped at "Nobody really cares about black communities..." because I felt like I was taking scientific advice from Kanye West at that pont.
 
2013-06-16 05:46:30 PM  
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.

That being said, bath salts, meth and crack are irredeemable and should never be legal. Heroin and coke are too extreme for recreational use, but I heard that in France the old folks homes give their residents pills of heroin so they're happy all day, and I think that's acceptable. Psychedelics should be available but on a limited basis.

The only reason pot is illegal is that hemp competed with Hearst's wood sulfide paper mill profits. I think it will be legalized, if not soon, probably in my lifetime.
 
2013-06-16 05:47:05 PM  

Dragonflew: I stopped at "Nobody really cares about black communities..." because I felt like I was taking scientific advice from Kanye West at that point.


FTFM
 
2013-06-16 05:48:24 PM  

YoOjo: Karl LaFong: What's to figure out? You light it, you smoke it, you get high, man. Big deal! Simple as putting on your pants, fer chrissake!

That's how you put your pants on? You must have a charred penis!!


My question to you is who's puttin' on your pants?
 
2013-06-16 05:50:03 PM  

OgreMagi: The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[api.ning.com image 650x1034]


If only someone had offered me "concentrated sin":  The diluted sinning is obviously where I've gone wrong all these years:)
 
2013-06-16 05:51:47 PM  
There are a multitude of factors as to why people try drugs, but some people just can't handle them at all (myself included) and become hopelessly hooked on them.

Would addressing poverty help? Quite possibly, but people are gonna do drugs if they want to. Saying drug problems only happen to the poor is stupid; rich folks just have money to hide their issues better.
 
2013-06-16 05:53:46 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Yeah, how come we never talk about the crackheads who DON'T break into your car or suck alley dick for a hit?!


That wasn't an alley, it was more of an easement.
 
2013-06-16 05:58:48 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Yeah, how come we never talk about the crackheads who DON'T break into your car or suck alley dick for a hit?!


Rob Ford is all over the news in Toronto
 
2013-06-16 06:00:29 PM  
Dopamine response is addictive. The question is if the way you get your dopamine is harmful to you or others.
 
2013-06-16 06:00:44 PM  

Karl LaFong: YoOjo: Karl LaFong: What's to figure out? You light it, you smoke it, you get high, man. Big deal! Simple as putting on your pants, fer chrissake!

That's how you put your pants on? You must have a charred penis!!

My question to you is who's puttin' on your pants?


No idea, I eschew clothing in favor of walking skyclad while oscillating god particles swim in and within the fluorescent molasses that hides just out of reach of my plastic spider skeleton soul.
 
2013-06-16 06:01:05 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.

That being said, bath salts, meth and crack are irredeemable and should never be legal. Heroin and coke are too extreme for recreational use, but I heard that in France the old folks homes give their residents pills of heroin so they're happy all day, and I think that's acceptable. Psychedelics should be available but on a limited basis.

The only reason pot is illegal is that hemp competed with Hearst's wood sulfide paper mill profits. I think it will be legalized, if not soon, probably in my lifetime.


If you're getting a source that isn't corrupted and have a knowledge about how much can be safely taken and whether a drug will react negatively with other substances you are taking, and don't use it so frequently that you develop a strong dependency on the substance, even things like Heroin and coke can be used in a fairly safe manner. Legalizing or decriminalizing won't magically make them 100% safe, but prohibition only creates additional problems. Some substances require more knowledge and caution to safely use them, but that doesn't mean that taking them is nearly as dangerous as anti-drug propaganda portrays them to be.

Also, why do you think psychedelics should only be available on a limited basis?
 
2013-06-16 06:05:26 PM  

Walter Paisley: Kumana Wanalaia: Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.
Educate. License. Tax. Rehabilitate.

That being said, bath salts, meth and crack are irredeemable and should never be legal. Heroin and coke are too extreme for recreational use, but I heard that in France the old folks homes give their residents pills of heroin so they're happy all day, and I think that's acceptable. Psychedelics should be available but on a limited basis.

The only reason pot is illegal is that hemp competed with Hearst's wood sulfide paper mill profits. I think it will be legalized, if not soon, probably in my lifetime.

If you're getting a source that isn't corrupted and have a knowledge about how much can be safely taken and whether a drug will react negatively with other substances you are taking, and don't use it so frequently that you develop a strong dependency on the substance, even things like Heroin and coke can be used in a fairly safe manner. Legalizing or decriminalizing won't magically make them 100% safe, but prohibition only creates additional problems. Some substances require more knowledge and caution to safely use them, but that doesn't mean that taking them is nearly as dangerous as anti-drug propaganda portrays them to be.

Also, why do you think psychedelics should only be available on a limited basis?


Because "It's not illegal when we do it".
Some things are just not for you, unless your Nanny runs the dealeo.
 
2013-06-16 06:06:46 PM  

Veloram: MrEricSir: tl;dr version: Instead of addressing "the drug problem," we'd be better off addressing poverty.

Which, duh. But blaming the victims is so much easier.

Sadly, this.



I'm housing, feeding, clothing and raising four children of drug addicts. When one of the parents stops by something of value disappears from my house. I don't see or ask for a dime because I know I'll never see it. They can't hold down a job past a payday or two because they get high as soon as they can afford drugs and screw it up. That they've already stolen everything they could from me is definitely a key contributor to their poverty problem.

When they got arrested for the thefts they weren't responsible because they're victims of drug addiction. They go to treatment, not to jail. There is no restitution because the courts know its pointless to demand it.

The kids speak of their father's in heroic terms as if they're off slaying dragons unaware that they never give them a second thought in return. They never show up for the kids, they only come around when they're desperate for something to steal.

Yeah, poverty sucks for these poor victims.
 
2013-06-16 06:10:35 PM  
Wait, there are only two things I know about drugs: 1) they're bad if they aren't prescribed to you by a doctor and 2) their names.

So if everything I know about drugs is wrong, what are we calling coodles, sweatsugar, minorityrapistfuel and conputchia now?
 
2013-06-16 06:12:28 PM  
Portugal. The end.
 
2013-06-16 06:17:01 PM  
If everything we know is wrong, then can we get Pickard and Apperson back producing?  Pretty please?
 
2013-06-16 06:17:20 PM  

Walter Paisley: Kumana Wanalaia:

Also, why do you think psychedelics should only be available on a limited basis?


Specifically, lsd should be available but on a limited basis. There is such a thing as too much lsd.

I can't say that shrooms or peyote or toad need to be limited, although I suspect so. If someone wants to trip for a few days that's one thing. If you're tripping all day every day for years, it's going to take it's toll. For the good of the public health, that should be restricted.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to polish my jack-boots.
 
2013-06-16 06:33:47 PM  
professor doesn't know the difference between meth and straight amphetamine and drives the point home twice.
 
2013-06-16 06:33:53 PM  

YoOjo: Karl LaFong: YoOjo: Karl LaFong: What's to figure out? You light it, you smoke it, you get high, man. Big deal! Simple as putting on your pants, fer chrissake!

That's how you put your pants on? You must have a charred penis!!

My question to you is who's puttin' on your pants?

No idea, I eschew clothing in favor of walking skyclad while oscillating god particles swim in and within the fluorescent molasses that hides just out of reach of my plastic spider skeleton soul.


i.qkme.me
 
2013-06-16 06:35:19 PM  

HST's Dead Carcass: There are a multitude of factors as to why people try drugs, but some people just can't handle them at all (myself included) and become hopelessly hooked on them.

Would addressing poverty help? Quite possibly, but people are gonna do drugs if they want to. Saying drug problems only happen to the poor is stupid; rich folks just have money to hide their issues better.




The issue being that people who are going to get hooked are going to eat hooked. If its not drugs its alcohol or gambling or anything else that creates that rush of endorphins.

The ones we freak out about are the ones that some underclass or another are using. Meth, crack, heroin, OxyContin. They also are the drugs that have almost mystical properties of addiction or damage.
 
2013-06-16 06:37:50 PM  
Every so often, you find someone whose ideas you almost completely agree with.  Like this guy, for me.

Simple evidence of society valuing black people less: if you look at death penalty sentencing rates, you don't find a statistically-meaningful correlation between the race of the killer and the percentage who got death penalties.  However, if you look at the race of the  victim, you do find such a correlation: killers of black people get death sentences less often than killers of white people.

There is definitely a racist undercurrent to American culture.  I feel it; somehow, I get more nervous when black people are around, and in black neighborhoods.  It's awful and wrong, but it happens subconsciously for me.  I hate that I'm like that, and try to consciously change when I can.

Legalizing drugs, like any other large policy change, will have unintended consequences.  Would we suddenly get a lot of unemployed people from the law enforcement industry?  Would the cops remain on the force instead, and help create a police state?  These are questions we need to consider and address.  I'm certainly in favor of legalizing drugs.
 
2013-06-16 06:39:59 PM  
For the life of me I could never figure out what seperates the recreational drug user from an addict. Ive used and abused anything you can think of (excluding needles) not that I have a morale objection. I just dislike needles enough that I wouldnt use one to get high. Any time Ive used drugs I eventually hit a point where I feel sufficiently high or feel shiatty enough where I put the dope down and try to go to bed. Hell Ive even flushed my stash the odd time when I saw it getting to be to much.
 
2013-06-16 06:41:50 PM  

YoOjo: No idea, I eschew clothing in favor of walking skyclad while oscillating god particles swim in and within the fluorescent molasses that hides just out of reach of my plastic spider skeleton soul.


Your post should come with a warning stating how high you have to be to understand it.
/And in conclusion LIQUID SNAKES!!1!
 
2013-06-16 06:42:45 PM  
He's right. Especially this line:

"If you don't fully appreciate the context, and you think that drug users are awful, then you don't think about how a person takes care of their kid, takes care of their family, goes to work, but they also use drugs."

Funny, I think that pretty much describes the situation of Fark, where drinking beer (a DRUG) after a day of work is considered the norm. It's only scary drugs that  other people, especially  black people and  poor people take that are treated as horrible. If grandma gets hooked on oxy it's a problem, but if your friend is shooting heroin he's criminal scum. If your roommate in the dorm uses Adderal to study it's okay, if his white-trash cousin smokes some meth and plays vidya all night he's a loser who should be arrested.

Alcohol is one of the hardest drugs out there, yet we can sit here pretending that our having a beer or two after work is not doing drugs, and is different than if someone does a line of coke once a week when they go clubbing. It's stupid. The guy is 100% right.
 
2013-06-16 06:50:20 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: For the life of me I could never figure out what separates the recreational drug user from an addict.


If you want to stop and you can't, you're addicted.
 
2013-06-16 06:50:27 PM  
 
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