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(Opposing Views)   Is this man facing two years in jail for a.) theft, b.) assault or c.) locking up kids who were vandalizing his home in a closet until police could arrive?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 261
    More: Stupid, vandals, jail  
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7426 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2013 at 3:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-16 09:19:10 AM
That's why you use a baseball sized paintball with bank robber dye in it. Let the little bastards try to run away when they're covered in bright orange paint that doesn't wash off.
 
2013-06-16 09:24:10 AM
Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.
 
2013-06-16 09:35:46 AM
Should have shot the little bastards.
 
2013-06-16 09:36:01 AM
If I were the parents of those kids I would be WAY too embarrassed at my bad parenting to bring additional attention to it by trying to have arrested the person who stopped my kids from continuing their destruction. I guess some people have no shame.
 
2013-06-16 10:03:51 AM
farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2013-06-16 10:21:30 AM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


First thing I thought, and I am sleepy
 
2013-06-16 10:25:24 AM
Isn't that called kidnapping?
 
2013-06-16 11:19:31 AM
Around here, there's not a jury that would convict him.

/and the parents would be thankful the kids were not shot.
 
2013-06-16 11:43:54 AM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Yeah, if you walked in your bathroom and saw this you might disagree:
www.13wham.com
 
2013-06-16 12:11:44 PM

Walker: Yeah, if you walked in your bathroom and saw this you might disagree:


While it would really piss me off, but I really doubt I would threaten 8-10 year old kids with a hammer over it; the parents maybe, the kids no.
 
2013-06-16 12:13:39 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.
 
2013-06-16 12:24:42 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Self-defense.... four pre-teens, three armed with hammers all of whom are acting in a dangerous manner... if he keeps his mouth shut and lets his lawyer deal with the situation he'll get off.
 
2013-06-16 12:26:34 PM
citizens arrest?
 
2013-06-16 12:26:58 PM
Aarontology

Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

You are permitted to act within a reasonable way to defend yourself, your family and property. IMO, he showed great restraint. Schools have treated kids like them much more harshly for wearing banned clothing or even drawing a picture of a gun.

Since they had hammers, technically they had weapons. Would it have made a difference if they had guns? How about the fact they trespassed, broke and entered and committed malicious destruction of property? Also the simple fact that these innocent angels came up with the plan to break into a neighborhood home to wreck as much mayhem on it as possible and carried it out?

What was he supposed to do, stand there and let them run away? Maybe he didn't know where they lived. Then, the cops and he would have to spend days tracking them down.

He called the cops. He put them in a closet. He did not tie them up nor physically harm them. Personally, seeing that much damage done to a parents home by the little f**ks might have driven me to physical violence.

Stupidity like this caused great confusion and a real mess in the 70's when criminals started suing their victims who defended themselves or who physically chased them down and caught them. (Store personnel especially.) Eventually, that would lead to the creation of 'zero tolerance' laws that has packed our jails and prisons.

Had I done something like that as a kid, my folks would have torn my arse up! The heck with looking for a stupid excuse to file charges against the person who caught me.

That's like this stupid shiat with squatters. You go away on vacation and come home to find people living in your house, messing with your things. You can't go in there with a baseball bat and chase them out because they have 'rights'.

Funny, with all of these 'rights' available, the US has one of the highest populations in prisons in the world. We are also the most litigious nation on the planet.

The man did right. He prevented the 'armed' vandals from escaping without violence and turned them over to the cops. Now, he and his dad will have to go through the lengthy and expensive process of repairing the damage done to the house and probably have to sue the parents to be reimbursed for the expense.

Not to mention the emotional trauma of having one's sanctity of home violated.

I got robbed once in my own apartment. I stuck the very sharp tip of my switchblade under the chin of the thief and very nearly pushed it up into his nasal cavity. Even though he fled, was caught and arrested, I never did recover the money he stole.

Technically, I could have been arrested -- for using an illegal weapon when he had none -- but he was younger and stronger than I and could have done more harm to me if I had simply fought him.

The cops wisely ignored my use of the knife. The thief complained about it when arrested, but the judge figured he was lucky I hadn't sliced him up.

Another time, working in a department store, I had to watch a thief run off with a couple of hundred bucks worth of goods because I was NOT allowed to chase him beyond the store doors due to the possibility of him suing the store if I handled him roughly in the parking lot. (I didn't consider bouncing his head off a car or two as being 'roughly treated).

The Division of Youth Services needs to pay a visit to the parents of those kids.
 
2013-06-16 12:28:48 PM
So is a citizen's arrest something that only exists in movies and TV shows?  If he hadn't of corralled them what are the chances the police would have spent much manpower investigating and tracking down suspected property vandals?
 
2013-06-16 12:41:43 PM

TuteTibiImperes: So is a citizen's arrest something that only exists in movies and TV shows?


Yes, it is.
 
2013-06-16 12:41:53 PM
One of the parents looks like a real piece of work, apples falling from trees.... video
 
2013-06-16 12:51:15 PM

quickdraw: citizens arrest?


i232.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-16 12:52:35 PM
The man who detained the kids did nothing wrong. Nothing. The father should be charged for child neglect.
 
2013-06-16 12:57:52 PM
CPS should open a case on the children's parents.
 
2013-06-16 01:07:11 PM
Clyde Village Police returned the children to their parents, who live just down the street, and filed felony criminal charges of 2nd degree burglary and 2nd degree criminal mischief.

Fair trade.
 
2013-06-16 01:16:59 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.



Kidnapping?  He called the cops.
 
2013-06-16 01:25:19 PM

The_Sponge: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Kidnapping?  He called the cops.


The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.
 
2013-06-16 01:27:51 PM

quickdraw: citizens arrest?


This was my thought.

The father quoted should be shamed out of the county.  All that damage plus graffiti defaming women?  At ages 8-10?  Way to raise some budding career criminals.  We'll be seeing him on the news in ten years "well, he got into a little trouble  when he was younger."
 
2013-06-16 01:28:26 PM
Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.
 
2013-06-16 01:29:08 PM

thamike: The_Sponge: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Kidnapping?  He called the cops.

The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.



It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.
 
2013-06-16 01:30:04 PM

The_Sponge: Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.


I'm blaming the kids, and giving you legal trivia.
 
2013-06-16 01:31:57 PM
Generally, kidnapping occurs when a person, without lawful authority, physically asports (i.e., moves) another person without that other person's consent, with the intent to use the abduction in connection with some other nefarious objective. Under the and held for certain purposes. These purposes include gaining a ransom or reward; facilitating the commission of a felony or a flight after the commission of a felony; terrorizing or inflicting bodily injury on the victim or a third person; and interfering with a governmental or political function (Model Penal Code § 212.1).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/kidnapping


It wasn't kidnapping!
 
2013-06-16 01:32:12 PM

The_Sponge: It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.


Legally, it could be kidnapping, more likely false imprisonment.  Obviously, it would have been a bullsh*t charge that wouldn't have gone anywhere, hence the lack of aforementioned charges.
 
2013-06-16 01:35:36 PM

The_Sponge: It wasn't kidnapping!


"Officer, where did you find my kid?"

"He was being held against his will with a bunch of other kids in a closet in a vacant house, by this very irate man."

It wasn't kidnapping, but kidnapping charges could have been leveled had cooler heads not prevailed.
 
2013-06-16 01:46:31 PM

thamike: The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.


No. Just no.

Words mean things.

Now just because your ego was bruised by pointing this out don't go screaming that you were assaulted.
 
2013-06-16 01:48:32 PM

Mrbogey: thamike: The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.

No. Just no.

Words mean things.

Now just because your ego was bruised by pointing this out don't go screaming that you were assaulted.


I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
2013-06-16 01:50:46 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Citizen's arrest?
Stand your ground?
Self defense?

If he had shot and killed them in self-defense, he would probably be ok now.
 
2013-06-16 01:53:28 PM
Common Law[edit]
Most states have codified the common law rule that a warrantless arrest may be made by a private person for a felony, misdemeanor or "breach of peace."[42] A breach of peace covers a multitude of violations in which the Supreme Court has even included a misdemeanor seatbelt violation punishable only by a fine. The term historically included theft, "nightwalking," prostitution and playing card and dice games.[43]

so yah
instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit. those charges will be dropped and he will sure and win for wrongful arrest.

turns out, the home owner committed no crime and arrested 4 felons in the act.
TADA

the cops were being pressured by butthurt parents over their little snowflakes being arrested.
(would bet money on this)
 
2013-06-16 01:54:16 PM

namatad: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

Citizen's arrest?
Stand your ground?
Self defense?

If he had shot and killed them in self-defense, he would probably be ok now.


I doubt it.
 
2013-06-16 01:56:08 PM

thamike: I have no idea what you're talking about.


You said something that was wrong. It was pointed out by numerous people. "Bruising" to your ego most likely occurred. Ergo under your loose definition of things, you were the victim of an assault.
 
2013-06-16 01:56:21 PM

namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.


He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?
 
2013-06-16 01:57:10 PM

Mrbogey: thamike: I have no idea what you're talking about.

You said something that was wrong. It was pointed out by numerous people. "Bruising" to your ego most likely occurred. Ergo under your loose definition of things, you were the victim of an assault.


Ok.
 
2013-06-16 01:57:40 PM

The_Sponge: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Kidnapping?  He called the cops.



He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.
 
2013-06-16 01:58:40 PM

thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?


Meh, he didn't endanger those kids, they endangered themselves.
 
2013-06-16 01:59:43 PM

Bathia_Mapes: You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.


Actually, it does matter.  That's why he's charged with endangering children.  Kidnapping would never stick in court, and if these were adults armed with hammers, his trapping them in a closet would have never been questioned.
 
2013-06-16 02:00:45 PM
Kidnapping?  Really.

/not a jury that would convict on that
//if I was on the jury, I'd laugh the prosecutor out of the courtroom
///another reason I'll never be selected
 
2013-06-16 02:01:10 PM

basemetal: thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?

Meh, he didn't endanger those kids, they endangered themselves.


Obviously, but I'm not the one accusing the guy, the police are.
 
2013-06-16 02:01:16 PM

namatad: If he had shot and killed them in self-defense, he would probably be ok now.


Really?

I seriously doubt that.
 
2013-06-16 02:01:54 PM

thamike: basemetal: thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?

Meh, he didn't endanger those kids, they endangered themselves.

Obviously, but I'm not the one accusing the guy, the police are.


And they'll drop the charges, watch and see.
 
2013-06-16 02:02:55 PM

basemetal: thamike: basemetal: thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?

Meh, he didn't endanger those kids, they endangered themselves.

Obviously, but I'm not the one accusing the guy, the police are.

And they'll drop the charges, watch and see.


I'm almost positive they will.
 
2013-06-16 02:07:11 PM

Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.


I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.
 
2013-06-16 02:16:58 PM

thamike: Bathia_Mapes: You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

Actually, it does matter.  That's why he's charged with endangering children.  Kidnapping would never stick in court, and if these were adults armed with hammers, his trapping them in a closet would have never been questioned.


Really... its sounds like the father pressured the police to file the child endangerment charges so he'd have some leverage against the homeowner. I doubt there's anything that can be done about the charges against the kids but I bet he's hoping that the thousands of dollars in civil charges can be put on the table if he drops the child endangerment charges.
 
2013-06-16 02:17:23 PM

Mrbogey: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.


Looking at the photos of how they left the place I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.
 
2013-06-16 02:17:24 PM
The kids had hammers, too.  He could have made it look like they killed each other.
 
2013-06-16 02:30:48 PM

BarkingUnicorn: The kids had hammers, too.  He could have made it look like they killed each other.


Haha!
 
2013-06-16 02:31:38 PM

basemetal: Around here, there's not a jury that would convict him.

/and the parents would be thankful the kids were not shot.


Thread over.
/sure got real tolly quick tho
 
2013-06-16 02:32:18 PM

basemetal: Around here, there's not a jury that would convict him.

/and the parents would be thankful the kids were not shot.


Thread over.
/sure got trolly tho
 
2013-06-16 02:35:48 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Mrbogey: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.

Looking at the photos of how they left the place I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.


If you really think the cops are going to take fingerprints, pictures, etc. then you are deluded.  All they do is show up and fill out a report.  I've had stuff stolen before, I even pointed out to the officer where there would almost have to be finger prints and he didn't care a rip.  He just filled out the form and handed me a copy for the insurance company.  The only way they call in the crime lab is if it's a big scene with a murder, etc.

These kids are a product of the people posting upthread.  In a world where people say the adult here was wrong, kids have learned to exploit this to their benefit.  They grow up without the fear of being hammered when they do things.  Even back in my day, you pulled this stuff and not only would the homeowner grab you and likely hit you a few times, he'd have drug you back to your parents home where they would have apologized to him, thanked him for bringing their kid home, arranged to make payments on the damage, and then they'd have put the biggest punishment and likely spanking down on you they could.  Did we get out of line?  Heck no, the punishment scared us.  We grew up to not do this crap.  Kids today, they can get away with anything and they know it.  All because of the idiots in this thread who think they have rights and think the guy was wrong.  Spare the rod and spoil the child.  True then, true now.
 
2013-06-16 02:39:09 PM

remus: These kids are a product of the people posting upthread.


This thread is the product of over-YouTubed people inferring personal bias from emotionless legal discussion.
 
2013-06-16 02:53:48 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Unless you are part of the plutocracy.
 
2013-06-16 02:57:34 PM
If the kids were part of a spree of break-ins, yup, they would have gotten the CSI kits out.

CSB: my aunt had her house broken in, cops were looking for the kids, found a nice fingerprint on the window sill, called up the database, bingo. Found the perps, her stuff, and other people stuff.
 
2013-06-16 02:58:52 PM

BarkingUnicorn: The kids had hammers, too.  He could have made it look like they killed each other.


Or, forced them at gunpoint  to fight each other with the hammers, promising to let the survivor win.

Then shot the survivor and claimed the kid was a maniac and he was just sorry he was late saving the other kids.
 
2013-06-16 03:15:49 PM
He'll get off.
 
2013-06-16 03:18:02 PM

born_yesterday: BarkingUnicorn: The kids had hammers, too.  He could have made it look like they killed each other.

Or, forced them at gunpoint  to fight each other with the hammers, promising to let the survivor win.

Then shot the survivor and claimed the kid was a maniac and he was just sorry he was late saving the other kids.


Ohhh, I like this one.
 
2013-06-16 03:51:24 PM

thamike: namatad: If he had shot and killed them in self-defense, he would probably be ok now.

I doubt it.


Too bad for him he doesn't live in Texas or Florida.
 
PKY
2013-06-16 04:05:25 PM
Those kids are damaged goods. One way tickets to Somalia please.
 
2013-06-16 04:05:26 PM
Man, I love all the GED lawyers springing up around Fark lately.
 
2013-06-16 04:12:43 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Mrbogey: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.

Looking at the photos of how they left the place I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.


s2.postimg.org
 
2013-06-16 04:15:25 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


And I suppose you would of just let them leave and went back to bed
 
2013-06-16 04:17:08 PM
If one of those turds was killed while vandalizing the home you know damn well the parents would've sued the guy, and won.
 
2013-06-16 04:20:20 PM
These are angry little kids with terrible parents. Future jail fodder.
 
2013-06-16 04:20:50 PM

The_Sponge: Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.


Seriously. I mean, if he beat them with the hammer then I'd agree he went too far, but holding them at 'hammer-point' until the cops show up seems perfectly reasonable. It's not like they just threw a few eggs at the house either, they broke into someone's home and cause a huge amount of damage. As some others have said, I think he showed a lot of restraint. I'd be positively livid if it were me.
 
2013-06-16 04:22:02 PM

Gyrfalcon: Man, I love all the GED lawyers springing up around Fark lately.


What do you mean "lately"?
 
2013-06-16 04:22:14 PM

WorldCitizen: If I were the parents of those kids I would be WAY too embarrassed at my bad parenting to bring additional attention to it by trying to have arrested the person who stopped my kids from continuing their destruction. I guess some people have no shame.


Of course not, they learn from their parents being just as bratty
 
2013-06-16 04:23:34 PM

Rik01: Aarontology

Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

You are permitted to act within a reasonable way to defend yourself, your family and property. IMO, he showed great restraint. Schools have treated kids like them much more harshly for wearing banned clothing or even drawing a picture of a gun.

Since they had hammers, technically they had weapons. Would it have made a difference if they had guns? How about the fact they trespassed, broke and entered and committed malicious destruction of property? Also the simple fact that these innocent angels came up with the plan to break into a neighborhood home to wreck as much mayhem on it as possible and carried it out?

What was he supposed to do, stand there and let them run away? Maybe he didn't know where they lived. Then, the cops and he would have to spend days tracking them down.

He called the cops. He put them in a closet. He did not tie them up nor physically harm them. Personally, seeing that much damage done to a parents home by the little f**ks might have driven me to physical violence.

Stupidity like this caused great confusion and a real mess in the 70's when criminals started suing their victims who defended themselves or who physically chased them down and caught them. (Store personnel especially.) Eventually, that would lead to the creation of 'zero tolerance' laws that has packed our jails and prisons.

Had I done something like that as a kid, my folks would have torn my arse up! The heck with looking for a stupid excuse to file charges against the person who caught me.

That's like this stupid shiat with squatters. You go away on vacation and come home to find people living in your house, messing with your things. You can't go in there with a baseball bat and chase them out because they have 'rights'.

Funny, with all of these 'rights' available, the US has one of the highest populations in prisons in the world. We are also the most litigious nation on the planet.

The man ...


This.
 
2013-06-16 04:24:08 PM

Azlefty: Walker: Yeah, if you walked in your bathroom and saw this you might disagree:

While it would really piss me off, but I really doubt I would threaten 8-10 year old kids with a hammer over it; the parents maybe, the kids no.


I fully agree with you.  There's no way in hell I'd ever threaten children over that.  I'd just shoot them.  They were armed with hammers and I would be fearful of my life.

If the guy and his lawyer are smart, they'll give as many interviews as possible.  If he can avoid saying something stupid there will be a huge amount of pressure on the authorities to drop the charges.
 
2013-06-16 04:25:16 PM
8-10... I am looking at my seven-year-old as he "feeds" his stuffed bunny pudding. What horrible homes are those kids in? When children act so maliciously, CPS should be summoned to do a thorough investigation. Something is very wrong.
 
2013-06-16 04:25:24 PM

Bathia_Mapes: And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Honestly, I think you're wrong here. When it comes to stopping damage to my home, i should have the right to detain the subject or subjects until the law comes. They are guilty of tresspassing, vandalism, and so on.

Also, it's not "taking the law into your own hands" when acting to protect your life or property and holding the subjects for police. That is, or should be, considered basic civic duty.
 
2013-06-16 04:27:52 PM
Spare the lash...
 
2013-06-16 04:28:35 PM
Next time, just lock up and set the place on fire. Roast the little scumbags and blame them for the blaze too.

/Not kidding
//not even a little bit
///slashies
 
2013-06-16 04:30:31 PM
BTW folks.... the next time you find yourself in such a situation, please grab your camera or camcorder. The little snots can run away and deny all they want, but they cannot explain the nice 35mm or 1080i footage you will get of them standing in the house, with paint on their clothes and hammers in their hands. And, if they are crazy enough to decide they might need to take care of that camera, THEN you have the right to wield a hammer in return and herd them into a closet in self defense. All clean and legal. And with video to prove they did it.

/cameras... proving people are evil shiats since 1839
 
2013-06-16 04:31:05 PM
He did it for their safety. He didn't want them tripping and getting hurt on the crap they vandalized. Give the guy a commendation and throw a few books at the kids.
 
2013-06-16 04:31:05 PM

remus: Bathia_Mapes: Mrbogey: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.

Looking at the photos of how they left the place I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.

If you really think the cops are going to take fingerprints, pictures, etc. then you are deluded.  All they do is show up and fill out a report.  I've had stuff stolen before, I even pointed out to the officer where there would almost have to be finger prints and he didn't care a rip.  He just filled out the form and handed me a copy for the insurance company.  The only way they call in the crime lab is if it's a big scene with a murder, etc.

These kids are a product of the people posting upthread.  In a world where people say the adult here was wrong, kids have learned to exploit this to their benefit.  They grow up without the fear of being hammered when they do things.  Even back in my day, you pulled this stuff and not only would the homeowner grab you and likely hit you a few times, he'd have drug you back to your parents home where they would have apologized to him, thanked him for bringing their kid home, arrang ...


These kids are exceptional, not the norm. You had little psychos back in your day too. There are always some like that. But our population is larger than it used to be and our media now reports on things like this, so you get the feeling that the per capita incidence is up.
 
2013-06-16 04:31:08 PM

Mrbogey: The man who detained the kids did nothing wrong. Nothing. The father should be charged for child neglect.


Absolutely agree, and I'm completely shocked by the parents response. When I was a kid, playing kickball, I broke a neighbor's window. Of course, being kids, we all screw. I told my dad what happened, he walked me over to the house, he had me apologize, and I paid for the window.

If I had broken into someone's house, destroyed the place, splattered paint everywhere, and got caught and held until police showed up, you can bet your ASS my father wouldn't be pressing charges against the person who held me. If my daughter did something like that, after she was returned to me, I would bought cleaning supplies, marched my kid over to that person, made her apologize, and sat there while she did what she could to clean. That is, after getting the other parents on the phone and talking to them about pooling together the money to pay for repairs.

It absolutely horrifies me to read the comments on here about how this guy was in the wrong somehow. The parents of these kids? THEY are the ones who should be getting locked up and charges against them pressed. Where the hell were they? Why were their kids out at 9pm destroying someone's house?

Personally I'm all for having parents face charges when their kids do evil shiat. Yeah, I realize that means if my daughter did something horrible I'd face charges! All the more reason to raise her to be a good human being.
 
2013-06-16 04:31:25 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


I have no problems with the way he detained those hoodlums.  Basically he performed a citizen's arrest, right?

/not a lawyer
 
2013-06-16 04:31:35 PM
Hell, the guy should get an award for restraint.
 
2013-06-16 04:32:44 PM

payattention: BTW folks.... the next time you find yourself in such a situation, please grab your camera or camcorder. The little snots can run away and deny all they want, but they cannot explain the nice 35mm or 1080i footage you will get of them standing in the house, with paint on their clothes and hammers in their hands. And, if they are crazy enough to decide they might need to take care of that camera, THEN you have the right to wield a hammer in return and herd them into a closet in self defense. All clean and legal. And with video to prove they did it.

/cameras... proving people are evil shiats since 1839


In theory, yes.  In practice?  Far as you know they could be violent or meth heads trying to steal copper.  I'd go in holding a gun, not a camera, if I went in at all.
 
2013-06-16 04:34:20 PM
They took out the toilet so as far as I'm concerned this guy was a saint.
 
2013-06-16 04:35:07 PM
Those parents should be thankful that they got their kids back unharmed despite being caught by the victim of their criminal behavior.

The victim showed considerable restraint, regardless of what actually is within his rights.  Whether or not you're an ITG, you have to admit that the victim could have reacted in a much worse way.

The cops saw nothing wrong with the victim's behavior when they showed up and arrested the kids (or did whatever they did to have felony charges brought up against the kids)

The parents going after the victim will raise their kids as sociopaths.  The kids will think that they have safety and rights when it comes to committing felonies.

Oh please oh please let's have a "where are they now" 10 or 15 years from now for the kids and their parents.
 
2013-06-16 04:35:26 PM

Bslim: Next time, just lock up and set the place on fire. Roast the little scumbags and blame them for the blaze too.

/Not kidding
//not even a little bit
///slashies


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-06-16 04:35:49 PM
So they're going to lock him up in a confined space to teach him that locking others up in a confined space is wrong? HYPOCRISY!
 
2013-06-16 04:37:12 PM
No jury will convict him. On the plus side these monsters might be old enough their parents insurance will not pay.
 
2013-06-16 04:37:33 PM
They would never find them.
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-16 04:37:37 PM
I would like to see a follow up to this story... so I'll know if I should avoid that city.
 
2013-06-16 04:37:38 PM

Bathia_Mapes: The_Sponge: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Kidnapping?  He called the cops.


He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.


Which is not what he was charged with by the police. The charge was 'endangering a child'. Not kidnapping, not false imprisonment. In order to take him to trial, the prosecutor has to decide whether or not the charge meets the criteria for the state's burden of proof.

IANAL, but a person who is and who is decent at their job will question the police carefully. If the statement from the article that the police were pressured by the parents of the kids caught in a criminal act to arrest the victim of that criminal act turns out to be true, it's likely that this will go nowhere with any sane judge and/or prosecutor. The only issue this guy is going to have is if it turns out to be true that he put his hands on one of the kids by grabbing his neck--which, considering the kids all had hammers in their hands (4 kids with weapons against one man--you do the math), probably isn't going to be an issue for him if his lawyer is remotely competent. Otherwise, it's perfectly legal--as a citizen--to detain anyone committing a crime until police arrive. If you actually read the article (I know, this is Fark--why would you do that?), he had his wife call 911 as he went over to check, so the police were already on their way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest_in_the_United_States
 
2013-06-16 04:40:27 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Children should not be untouchable.   He should have had full authority to kick their asses.   I can't believe this shiat!
 
2013-06-16 04:40:40 PM

Intrepid00: No jury will convict him. On the plus side these monsters might be old enough their parents insurance will not pay.


Hope so. If that 50k damage estimate was accurate that's a hell of a bill, even split four ways.
 
2013-06-16 04:42:02 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Take the law into your own hands?   Threatening the vandals of my home with bodily harm if they should leave before the cops arrive seems to me to be "basic what to do - 101"... Not "taking the law into my own hands"
 
2013-06-16 04:45:44 PM

thamike: The_Sponge: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Kidnapping?  He called the cops.

The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.


You cant kidnapp someone who broke into your home by keeping them there.  its impossible I say.
 
2013-06-16 04:45:59 PM
Satanic_Hamster - In theory, yes.  In practice?  Far as you know they could be violent or meth heads trying to steal copper.  I'd go in holding a gun, not a camera, if I went in at all.

I won't disagree with that, but with the camera, you may not have to 'go in' at all. Just film them from the window and retreat once you get the footage. Or, go in with both. That way your arse is covered when you have to shoot someone in self defense. I have a 720p spy cam that is the size of my thumb and can clip right onto my sleeve or waistband... that way I can use the gun properly if I have to. It's all about proof.

/and if you decide to go in shooting, please remember to turn the camera off....heh
 
2013-06-16 04:46:36 PM
N.Y. CPL. LAW § 140.30 : NY Code - Section 140.30: Arrest without a warrant; by any person; when and where authorized

1. Subject to the provisions of subdivision two, any person may
arrest another person (a) for a felony when the latter has in fact
committed such felony, and (b) for any offense when the latter has in
fact committed such offense in his presence.
2. Such an arrest, if for a felony, may be made anywhere in the
state. If the arrest is for an offense other than a felony, it may be
made only in the county in which such offense was committed.]

N.Y. CPL. LAW § 140.35 : NY Code - Section 140.35: Arrest without a warrant; by person acting other than as a police officer or a peace officer; when and how made

1. A person may arrest another person for an offense pursuant to
section 140.30 at any hour of any day or night.
2. Such person must inform the person whom he is arresting of the
reason for such arrest unless he encounters physical resistance, flight
or other factors rendering such procedure impractical.
3. In order to effect such an arrest, such person may use such
physical force as is justifiable pursuant to subdivision four of section
35.30 of the penal law.


IANAL but it seems like he's covered.
 
2013-06-16 04:48:18 PM

payattention: Satanic_Hamster - In theory, yes.  In practice?  Far as you know they could be violent or meth heads trying to steal copper.  I'd go in holding a gun, not a camera, if I went in at all.

I won't disagree with that, but with the camera, you may not have to 'go in' at all. Just film them from the window and retreat once you get the footage. Or, go in with both. That way your arse is covered when you have to shoot someone in self defense. I have a 720p spy cam that is the size of my thumb and can clip right onto my sleeve or waistband... that way I can use the gun properly if I have to. It's all about proof.

/and if you decide to go in shooting, please remember to turn the camera off....heh


You don't need a camera if there aren't any witnesses to testify against you.  At least that is what some guy told me...

media.trb.com
 
2013-06-16 04:50:44 PM
Hold on.

It is ok for mall or store security to apprehend a shoplifter and then detain them in an office or back room until police arrive.

It is not ok for a home owner to apprehend a vandal and then detain them in a closet until the police arrive.


Got it.
 
2013-06-16 04:51:31 PM

Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least.


He detained multiple armed criminals, caught in the commission of numerous crimes on his property, until the police arrived.  Cite one state's law where this is considered "kidnapping".
 
2013-06-16 04:52:11 PM

Rik01: What was he supposed to do, stand there and let them run away?


In most states, yes. Some states, predominantly in the South, allow you to shoot intruders, sometimes with added requirements like you felt threatened, while at the same time prohibiting you from detaining them. In Florida, you can shoot anyone anywhere if you feel threatened, regardless of their age or whether they committed a crime.
 
2013-06-16 04:52:53 PM

RickN99: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least.

He detained multiple armed criminals, caught in the commission of numerous crimes on his property, until the police arrived.  Cite one state's law where this is considered "kidnapping".


it's not...he is being charged with ENDANGERING A CHILD.  Which I can't see how he endangered these kids by stuffing them in a closet.
 
2013-06-16 04:52:55 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Mrbogey: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.

Looking at the photos of how they left the place I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.


police don't investagate that way for this type of crime
 
2013-06-16 04:53:27 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


What he did shouldn't be against the law.
 
2013-06-16 04:54:02 PM

pyrotek85: The_Sponge: Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.

Seriously. I mean, if he beat them with the hammer then I'd agree he went too far, but holding them at 'hammer-point' until the cops show up seems perfectly reasonable. It's not like they just threw a few eggs at the house either, they broke into someone's home and cause a huge amount of damage. As some others have said, I think he showed a lot of restraint. I'd be positively livid if it were me.


if it where me those kids would have been returned to their parents with quite a few new bruises.
 
2013-06-16 04:54:20 PM

Bschott007: Hold on.

It is ok for mall or store security to apprehend a shoplifter and then detain them in an office or back room until police arrive.



Says who?
 
2013-06-16 04:56:51 PM

Maul555: pyrotek85: The_Sponge: Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.

Seriously. I mean, if he beat them with the hammer then I'd agree he went too far, but holding them at 'hammer-point' until the cops show up seems perfectly reasonable. It's not like they just threw a few eggs at the house either, they broke into someone's home and cause a huge amount of damage. As some others have said, I think he showed a lot of restraint. I'd be positively livid if it were me.

if it where me those kids would have been returned to their parents with quite a few new bruises.



These kids are lucky they didn't run into some psychopath.

If the kids didn't return at all, the guy kept silent, no one saw them entering the home, no one knew where the kids were at or what they were doing they would just be some missing children most everyone would forget about in 6 months to a year.  Kids got lucky.
 
2013-06-16 04:57:24 PM

Aigoo: Which is not what he was charged with by the police. The charge was 'endangering a child'. Not kidnapping, not false imprisonment. In order to take him to trial, the prosecutor has to decide whether or not the charge meets the criteria for the state's burden of proof.



It's not unheard of for a person to be charged with something that the prosecutor knows won't stick... when the prosecutor is being pressured to "do something" but doesn't really want anything done.  I'd love for that to be the case here.
 
2013-06-16 04:58:40 PM

Wulfman: Bschott007: Hold on.

It is ok for mall or store security to apprehend a shoplifter and then detain them in an office or back room until police arrive.


Says who?


Happens all the time in Minnesota, North Dakota and Missouri.  Can't speak for any other state.  I worked at stores in all three states at various points in my life and have seen shoplifters detained in a back office in each at one time or another.
 
2013-06-16 04:58:42 PM

jehovahs witness protection: Should have shot the little bastards.


This. They were all armed with deadly weapons and will only turn in to bigger thugs given their families are such enablers of criminals. Scum, all of them!
 
2013-06-16 04:59:49 PM

Intrepid00: No jury will convict him. On the plus side these monsters might be old enough their parents insurance will not pay.


Intentional acts of vandalism is a standard exclusion on a homeowners policy.

I was just discussing with my friends how I grew up with a healthy fear of my dad, not because he was abusive but because he was a disciplinarian. It would never have crossed my mind to damage someone's property. I'd have gotten in trouble from the homeowner and then in trouble again from my father.

Clearly these kids' parents do not subscribe to my father's point of view. They have a long road ahead of them and should get very used to court dates and prison visits.
 
2013-06-16 05:00:58 PM

Krymson Tyde: Isn't that called kidnapping?


Not when its putting a stop to a felony in progress. At worst it's a citizens arrest.
 
2013-06-16 05:01:18 PM
The home owner did the right thing. Even if he knew who the kids were, if he let the kids run off then it would be harder to prove they did the damage. His word against their word, unless there were other witnesses. And it's not like the shiatty parents would do anything but defend their rotten crotch fruit, because they know they'd be liable for the damages.

If there's any justice left in this world, the home owner will have the charges dropped against him.
 
2013-06-16 05:02:54 PM
So in one corner we have dumbasses who don't know that in most (all?) places in America it is legal to detain people under some circumstances. In the other corner pretentious fools who know this fact and think this fact alone lets them judge all the nuances of the situation. Who will win?
 
2013-06-16 05:04:03 PM
All you people quoting the Boobieser in agreement are equally as dumb, it's called citizens arrest and anyone is well within their rights to detain a suspect of a crime until the proper authorities arrive. His lawyers will have a field day with this one.
 
2013-06-16 05:05:03 PM
Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.
 
2013-06-16 05:05:42 PM

Bschott007: Wulfman: Bschott007: Hold on.

It is ok for mall or store security to apprehend a shoplifter and then detain them in an office or back room until police arrive.


Says who?

Happens all the time in Minnesota, North Dakota and Missouri.  Can't speak for any other state.  I worked at stores in all three states at various points in my life and have seen shoplifters detained in a back office in each at one time or another.



That doesn't make it okay - or legal.
 
2013-06-16 05:05:45 PM
Prosecutorial discretion - how does it work?
 
2013-06-16 05:05:58 PM

The_Sponge: Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.


Those are the Farklibs at their finest.
 
2013-06-16 05:06:02 PM

Wulfman: Aigoo: Which is not what he was charged with by the police. The charge was 'endangering a child'. Not kidnapping, not false imprisonment. In order to take him to trial, the prosecutor has to decide whether or not the charge meets the criteria for the state's burden of proof.


It's not unheard of for a person to be charged with something that the prosecutor knows won't stick... when the prosecutor is being pressured to "do something" but doesn't really want anything done.  I'd love for that to be the case here.


Pretty sure that's what's gonna happen. I'd love to see this judge have a "WTF is THIS?!" moment on the bench and throw it out with extreme prejudice.
 
2013-06-16 05:07:08 PM

jehovahs witness protection: Should have shot the little bastards.


Shoot, shovel, shut up.

Worthless little crotchfruit, and it sounds like they caught it from their worthless farking parents.
 
2013-06-16 05:07:11 PM
"Bowler said his two boys are traumatized by the incident and their mother showed 13WHAM News a picture of the incident that she says one of them drew.  Bowler also provided 13WHAM News with a photo of the neck of one of his boys because he said Daniels grabbed his son by the neck and left a mark.

"Oh they're traumatized, they haven't been to school they don't sleep until the sun comes up," said Bowler."

Jesus farking Christ!!! If my kids did that, they would be so traumatized by their punishment from me, that the dude who put them in a closet would seem like the tooth fairy.

/will never have kids.Society is way to f'ed up
 
2013-06-16 05:07:51 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.
 
2013-06-16 05:08:56 PM

Snapper Carr: N.Y. CPL. LAW § 140.35 : NY Code - Section 140.35: Arrest without a warrant; by person acting other than as a police officer or a peace officer....
2. Such person must inform the person whom he is arresting of the
reason for such arrest unless he encounters physical resistance, flight
or other factors rendering such procedure impractical.
....
IANAL but it seems like he's covered.


IANALE, but I don't think this applies unless he informed the kids that he was placing them under arrest. This sort of citizen's arrest is how store security can legally detain shoplifters in some circumstances and locales, but there are still rules like this governing the arrests.
 
2013-06-16 05:09:57 PM
We'll see how traumatized the kids are if they get to visit juvie.

/which if they stay on path, with the enabling with mom and dad, they are headed in that direction
 
2013-06-16 05:10:16 PM
He didn't get the memo. They showed up. They participated. That's all that counts. He's the bad man, not the little vandals.

cdn.bernardgoldberg.com
 
2013-06-16 05:10:34 PM
I read the article to my buddy.  He said if these kids had lived in the town he had lived in growing up, the town would have ostracized them.  Said there were a store owners that would refuse to serve the kids and would ask them to leave their stores or tell the parents the kids would need to wait outside.  The local civic hall would also refuse the kids to have attended any social events held there for a solid year or more depending on how serious their crime was.  He said he found out the hard way when he was 13 by putting a bleach bomb inside of a mail box and blowing it up, was caught and was given 20 hours community service.  The worst part was the movie house wouldn't let him in for a year and he couldn't go into any of the stores or eat out with his parents at the local diner.   Being banished by the town was worse than the beating his father gave him, he says.

Of course that's small town america.  Would never happen in a suburb or town larger than 1000 people
 
2013-06-16 05:11:53 PM

Bschott007: Maul555: pyrotek85: The_Sponge: Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.

Seriously. I mean, if he beat them with the hammer then I'd agree he went too far, but holding them at 'hammer-point' until the cops show up seems perfectly reasonable. It's not like they just threw a few eggs at the house either, they broke into someone's home and cause a huge amount of damage. As some others have said, I think he showed a lot of restraint. I'd be positively livid if it were me.

if it where me those kids would have been returned to their parents with quite a few new bruises.


These kids are lucky they didn't run into some psychopath.

If the kids didn't return at all, the guy kept silent, no one saw them entering the home, no one knew where the kids were at or what they were doing they would just be some missing children most everyone would forget about in 6 months to a year.  Kids got lucky.


Yup, some people lose their temper over far less, like a damn parking spot dispute. To say he showed restraint is an understatement really. The only thing more amazing in this story is that the parents are acting outraged over their kids being held until the police showed up.
 
2013-06-16 05:12:08 PM

Bschott007: Of course that's small town america. Would never happen in a suburb or town larger than 1000 people


Even in small towns anymore, people have no shame.
 
2013-06-16 05:18:13 PM

Wulfman: Bschott007: Hold on.

It is ok for mall or store security to apprehend a shoplifter and then detain them in an office or back room until police arrive.


Says who?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper%27s_privilege
"In some jurisdictions of the United States, the courts recognize a common law shopkeeper's privilege, under which a shopkeeper is allowed to detain a suspected shoplifter on store property for a reasonable period of time, so long as the shopkeeper has cause to believe that the person detained in fact committed, or attempted to commit, theft of store property."
 
2013-06-16 05:18:33 PM
If this where in my house... I would go grab my rifle, and use the rear end to literally beat them into the closet while loudly telling them to "make me use the other end, I farking dare you".
 
2013-06-16 05:20:09 PM

Rik01: Aarontology

Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

You are permitted to act within a reasonable way to defend yourself, your family and property. IMO, he showed great restraint. Schools have treated kids like them much more harshly for wearing banned clothing or even drawing a picture of a gun.

Since they had hammers, technically they had weapons. Would it have made a difference if they had guns? How about the fact they trespassed, broke and entered and committed malicious destruction of property? Also the simple fact that these innocent angels came up with the plan to break into a neighborhood home to wreck as much mayhem on it as possible and carried it out?

What was he supposed to do, stand there and let them run away? Maybe he didn't know where they lived. Then, the cops and he would have to spend days tracking them down.

He called the cops. He put them in a closet. He did not tie them up nor physically harm them. Personally, seeing that much damage done to a parents home by the little f**ks might have driven me to physical violence.

Stupidity like this caused great confusion and a real mess in the 70's when criminals started suing their victims who defended themselves or who physically chased them down and caught them. (Store personnel especially.) Eventually, that would lead to the creation of 'zero tolerance' laws that has packed our jails and prisons.

Had I done something like that as a kid, my folks would have torn my arse up! The heck with looking for a stupid excuse to file charges against the person who caught me.

That's like this stupid shiat with squatters. You go away on vacation and come home to find people living in your house, messing with your things. You can't go in there with a baseball bat and chase them out because they have 'rights'.

Funny, with all of these 'rights' available, the US has one of the highest populations in prisons in the world. We are also the most litigious nation on the planet.

The man did right. He prevented the 'armed' vandals from escaping without violence and turned them over to the cops. Now, he and his dad will have to go through the lengthy and expensive process of repairing the damage done to the house and probably have to sue the parents to be reimbursed for the expense.

Not to mention the emotional trauma of having one's sanctity of home violated.

I got robbed once in my own apartment. I stuck the very sharp tip of my switchblade under the chin of the thief and very nearly pushed it up into his nasal cavity. Even though he fled, was caught and arrested, I never did recover the money he stole.

Technically, I could have been arrested -- for using an illegal weapon when he had none -- but he was younger and stronger than I and could have done more harm to me if I had simply fought him.

The cops wisely ignored my use of the knife. The thief complained about it when arrested, but the judge figured he was lucky I hadn't sliced him up.

Another time, working in a department store, I had to watch a thief run off with a couple of hundred bucks worth of goods because I was NOT allowed to chase him beyond the store doors due to the possibility of him suing the store if I handled him roughly in the parking lot. (I didn't consider bouncing his head off a car or two as being 'roughly treated).

The Division of Youth Services needs to pay a visit to the parents of those kids.


This.

Trust me, it took a lot of restraint not to smack them upside the head and ask WTF they were thinking. Shoving them in a closest is probably better than what many people would've done. Heck, I've lived some places this could've gotten them killed and the bodies dumped.
 
2013-06-16 05:21:12 PM

Bathia_Mapes: namatad: If he had shot and killed them in self-defense, he would probably be ok now.

Really?
I seriously doubt that.


If they were black, single parent, poor kids? He would be fine. Especially if he were old , rich, white.


thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.


True. But the defense is that they were threatening and he used minimal force to restrain felons, in the act of a felony. His case will be tossed out, their case will be pled down. Their parents will get sued in civil court for damages.

THE only reason that he was arrested in the first place was to shut the parents up. FFS, they had to go back the next day to arrest him. The cops on the scene didnt feel that any endangerment had happened.

/you know this one of THOSE cases: rotten kids, rotten parents, tormented neighbor.
 
2013-06-16 05:21:13 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


Speaking as a father I'd have no problem with my kids being locked in a closet to wait for the police.   They weren't in any physical danger.

And beating them?  Nope.  I'd go for public humiliation.   Something like a sandwich board with what they did on it right in front of their school and again somewhere populated so they could feel the burn of society's wrath.   Probably some therapy too to find out what led them to do such a stupid thing.
 
2013-06-16 05:21:26 PM
Why were they vandalizing his home in a closet until police could arrive?

/I'm sure this has already been said
 
2013-06-16 05:21:38 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


Not sure if trolling but, he didn't lock them in the closet for three weeks, probably more like ten minutes. If you don't want you kids locked up, then teach them not to break into other people' houses and vandalize their stuff.
 
2013-06-16 05:25:17 PM

thamike: The_Sponge: It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.

Legally, it could be kidnapping, more likely false imprisonment.  Obviously, it would have been a bullsh*t charge that wouldn't have gone anywhere, hence the lack of aforementioned charges.


Legally, it could be jack shiat since they were in the commission of a felony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

Go herp your derp somewhere else.
 
2013-06-16 05:25:40 PM
If I had done this, my father would have beaten me senseless, paid the man for the damage I caused, forced me (over the threat of another beating) to repair the damage I did and help the man with any other repair work on the home he needed.  Then it would be expected that any money I made from mowing lawns and doing odd jobs around the neighborhood would be used to pay every cent back to dad.   I'd also be grounded until dad felt my punishment was over (probably 6 months to year).   These kids probably got an X-Box game and were told to go play it and leave mommy and daddy alone.
 
2013-06-16 05:32:48 PM

EdNortonsTwin: Spare the lash...


Ask Michael Faye, the kid caught in Singapore vandalizing property, what a caning is like.
 
2013-06-16 05:33:31 PM

Bslim: Next time, just lock up and set the place on fire. Roast the little scumbags and blame them for the blaze too.

/Not kidding
//not even a little bit
///slashies


LOL
imagine how UPSET the parents would be?
YOUR HOUSE KILLED MY SNOWFLAKES!!!!!
how? how did they get into my mouse?
YOUR HOUSE KILLED MY SNOWFLAKES!!!!!
 Wait, they had hammers? Those aren't my hammers. Wait, those are you hammers?
Wait, all the stuff in my house was broken before the fire started?
So they destroyed my house, caused a fire and died. Suicide by vandalism!
YOUR HOUSE KILLED MY SNOWFLAKES!!!!!
 
2013-06-16 05:35:09 PM

Bschott007: I read the article to my buddy.  He said if these kids had lived in the town he had lived in growing up, the town would have ostracized them.  Said there were a store owners that would refuse to serve the kids and would ask them to leave their stores or tell the parents the kids would need to wait outside.  The local civic hall would also refuse the kids to have attended any social events held there for a solid year or more depending on how serious their crime was.  He said he found out the hard way when he was 13 by putting a bleach bomb inside of a mail box and blowing it up, was caught and was given 20 hours community service.  The worst part was the movie house wouldn't let him in for a year and he couldn't go into any of the stores or eat out with his parents at the local diner.   Being banished by the town was worse than the beating his father gave him, he says.

Of course that's small town america.  Would never happen in a suburb or town larger than 1000 people


Worse, the parents think that their KIDS were the injured party?
We already KNOW who the problem is, the parents.
The kids will grow up and spend time in prison. 
Nothing new.
 
2013-06-16 05:38:26 PM

99.998er: EdNortonsTwin: Spare the lash...

Ask Michael Faye, the kid caught in Singapore vandalizing property, what a caning is like.


More importantly, ask him if he ever vandalized anything ever again.
 
2013-06-16 05:41:32 PM

T Baggins: Snapper Carr: N.Y. CPL. LAW § 140.35 : NY Code - Section 140.35: Arrest without a warrant; by person acting other than as a police officer or a peace officer....
2. Such person must inform the person whom he is arresting of the
reason for such arrest unless he encounters physical resistance, flight
or other factors rendering such procedure impractical.
....
IANAL but it seems like he's covered.

IANALE, but I don't think this applies unless he informed the kids that he was placing them under arrest. This sort of citizen's arrest is how store security can legally detain shoplifters in some circumstances and locales, but there are still rules like this governing the arrests.


IAAL and telling them he is holding them until the police arrive is sufficient notice that he is arresting them, on top of the fact that they most likely offered flight or resistance.

The citizen's arrest is markedly different from the shopkeeper's privilege in that it they are able to only detain people long enough to sort out whether or not you stole something,  and may do so on "reasonable suspicion" that you have committed theft.  If you witness someone commit a felony, you can arrest them and take them directly to jail.
 
2013-06-16 05:44:55 PM

ReapTheChaos: All you people quoting the Boobieser in agreement are equally as dumb, it's called citizens arrest and anyone is well within their rights to detain a suspect of a crime until the proper authorities arrive. His lawyers will have a field day with this one.


Well, here's the whole thing:

California Penal Code section 837 is a good example of this codification:

837. A private person may arrest another:
For a public offense committed or attempted in his/her presence, or
When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in his presence
or
When a felony has been in fact committed, and he or she has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.
"Public offense" is read similarly as breach of peace in this case and includes felonies, misdemeanors and infractions.[44][45] Note that there is generally no provision for an investigative detention by a private person under the law. With certain exceptions (see below) an arrest must be made. "Holding them until the police get there" is simply a form of arrest. The officer is accepting the arrest and processing the prisoner on behalf of the private person.[46]

In no state may an arrest for a misdemeanor be made without it occurring in the presence of the arrestor.[43] In the case of felonies, a private person may make an arrest for a felony occurring outside his presence but the rule is that a felony must have, in fact, been committed . For example, imagine a suspect has been seen on surveillance video vandalizing a building to the extent that the arrestor believes it rises to a felony due to the damage. If he finds the suspect and makes the arrest but it later turns out that it was misdemeanor damage, the arrestor is liable for false arrest because a felony had not, in fact, been committed. (source: Wiki, emphasis added)

I used to make "citizen's arrests" when I worked in loss prevention, and there's one very important fact that's being left out: A "citizen's arrest" is not actually an arrest unless and until the cops show up to effect the actual detention. Nobody has the power to deprive another of his liberty without due process except a sworn officer of the law. "Shopkeeper's privilege" is subject to very strict rules; there is no similar "homeowner's privilege" that lets you detain vandals even if you saw them trashing your house.

When the detainees are juveniles, the issue gets even trickier, because juveniles are under the custody of their parents, and nobody else may detain them without notifying their parents, not even the civil authorities. So this guy taking it on himself to lock up some kids, even if he caught them red-handed vandalizing his home, is on extremely thin legal ice even as to the "citizen's arrest," and worse as to the false imprisonment. He screwed himself twice as bad by locking them in a closet and subjecting himself to the child endangerment charge; if he was afraid the kids would leave, then he should have let them go and told the cops where they went.

I understand the need for vengeance and dislike of spoiled brats; but legally, this guy hasn't got a leg to stand on. You never have the legal right to detain another person without due process simply for property damage. Sorry.
 
2013-06-16 05:47:15 PM

nickerj1: thamike: The_Sponge: It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.

Legally, it could be kidnapping, more likely false imprisonment.  Obviously, it would have been a bullsh*t charge that wouldn't have gone anywhere, hence the lack of aforementioned charges.

Legally, it could be jack shiat since they were in the commission of a felony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

Go herp your derp somewhere else.


I came in here expecting Thamike's brand of stupid, and I wasn't disappointed.

The threads I've seen in him today have each put him squarely in the defense of the establishment, which I suppose is a polite way of saying in the sheep category.
 
2013-06-16 05:48:41 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


Perhaps if you weren't such a farking failure as a parent, your kids wouldn't be committing felonies before thy have pubes? If my kids ever pulled some shiat like this, I would be thanking the FSM that the homeowner had shown that much restraint. I don't worry about that though because I've raised my kids to take responsibility for their actions and if they victimize innocent people, they're responsible for the consequences of those criminal behaviors. It doesn't make me a cool, ITG with precious criminal scumbag crotch droplings like yourself, but it makes me a great farking parent that is raising 2 kids that will be good adults who understand that there are consequences, dangerous consequences, for acting like destructive little farkwits.
 
2013-06-16 05:51:28 PM
I thought as a citizen if you see a crime take place and you detain the suspect until police arrive that you can do that
 
2013-06-16 05:52:04 PM

nickerj1: thamike: The_Sponge: It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.

Legally, it could be kidnapping, more likely false imprisonment.  Obviously, it would have been a bullsh*t charge that wouldn't have gone anywhere, hence the lack of aforementioned charges.

Legally, it could be jack shiat since they were in the commission of a felony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

Go herp your derp somewhere else.


TADA
they were fleeing felons.
TADA
his arrest for endangerment was a false arrest. the charges will be dropped and he can sue in civil court for wrongful arrest. I hope he does. The cops KNEW that it was wrong to arrest him, but they did anyways because of crazed parents hoping that he will drop the charges against their snowflakes if they drop the endangerment charge against him.

the follow up on this case will be fun/funny
 
2013-06-16 05:55:50 PM

Arthur Jumbles: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

Self-defense.... four pre-teens, three armed with hammers all of whom are acting in a dangerous manner... if he keeps his mouth shut and lets his lawyer deal with the situation he'll get off.


Yeah, I don't see any crime on his part, either.

Rik01: Stupidity like this caused great confusion and a real mess in the 70's when criminals started suing their victims who defended themselves or who physically chased them down and caught them. (Store personnel especially.) Eventually, that would lead to the creation of 'zero tolerance' laws that has packed our jails and prisons.

Had I done something like that as a kid, my folks would have torn my arse up! The heck with looking for a stupid excuse to file charges against the person who caught me.


I think the parents are part of the problem.

namatad: the cops were being pressured by butthurt parents over their little snowflakes being arrested.
(would bet money on this)


That's exactly my thought, also.
 
2013-06-16 05:56:08 PM

quickdraw: citizens arrest?


That was my first thought. That the kids are probably lying about him threatening them with the hammer was the second. I really don't see a problem here, especially with that level of damage. The police were called as soon as possible, and the kids likely weren't in there more than 20 minutes, tops. They were committing felony breaking and entering, and he just herded them into a closet. Good thing they weren't a few years older, as if they're already committing crime like this (especially since it's obviously retaliation from an encounter earlier in the day), the guy is lucky his skull didn't meet the hammers of the other three.

I also can't believe the parents are demanding this guy be charged. It's a sign of the special snowflake times I guess. Where the fark were you, parents?
 
2013-06-16 05:59:15 PM

Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.


Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.
 
2013-06-16 06:00:48 PM

remus: 99.998er: EdNortonsTwin: Spare the lash...

Ask Michael Faye, the kid caught in Singapore vandalizing property, what a caning is like.

More importantly, ask him if he ever vandalized anything ever again.


Although he never got in trouble again for vandalism, he had several scrapes with the law when he returned. Stuff like weed, open container, butane abuse (yes, really), and driving infractions. I kind of think that once the mold has set, it is difficult to reverse.
 
2013-06-16 06:01:26 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Mrbogey: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.

Looking at the photos of how they left the place I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.


How do I know you have never actually dealt with police when there was such evidence available?
 
2013-06-16 06:04:32 PM

Lost Thought 00: TuteTibiImperes: So is a citizen's arrest something that only exists in movies and TV shows?

Yes, it is.


Really? We allow it here in MN: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=629.38&year=2011
 
2013-06-16 06:04:43 PM

Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.


An insanity plea wouldn't work.
 
2013-06-16 06:06:56 PM

mrschwen: Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.

An insanity plea wouldn't work.


I really wouldn't care.  Fathers will do hard time and willingly so if you fark with their kids.  Someone without the legal authority locks my kids up?  He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.

Do not fark with a father's kids.
 
2013-06-16 06:11:20 PM

Infernalist: mrschwen: Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.

An insanity plea wouldn't work.

I really wouldn't care.  Fathers will do hard time and willingly so if you fark with their kids.  Someone without the legal authority locks my kids up?  He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.

Do not fark with a father's kids.


Don't raise shiaty kids and I won't fark with them. You sound like an overprotective helicopter parent. My dad would have thanked the dude and whoooped our ass on top of a minimum 1 year grounding.
 
2013-06-16 06:11:51 PM

99.998er: remus: 99.998er: EdNortonsTwin: Spare the lash...

Ask Michael Faye, the kid caught in Singapore vandalizing property, what a caning is like.

More importantly, ask him if he ever vandalized anything ever again.

Although he never got in trouble again for vandalism, he had several scrapes with the law when he returned. Stuff like weed, open container, butane abuse (yes, really), and driving infractions. I kind of think that once the mold has set, it is difficult to reverse.


Huh, I'd never heard any follow up on him.

I agree, some people are just rotten, demonstrate that as children, and never change.

I remember a useless clod of a bully back in gradeschool...he wasn't even very good at bullying, and even me, a weedy little kid back then, wasn't really all that scared of him, which tells you something...thirty years later, I'm visiting the parents, and notice the crime blotter in the local paper; he's been arrested for shoplifting a pair of pants.

Lived up to his potential, I suppose...
 
2013-06-16 06:12:55 PM

T Baggins: Snapper Carr: N.Y. CPL. LAW § 140.35 : NY Code - Section 140.35: Arrest without a warrant; by person acting other than as a police officer or a peace officer....
2. Such person must inform the person whom he is arresting of the
reason for such arrest unless he encounters physical resistance, flight
or other factors rendering such procedure impractical.
....
IANAL but it seems like he's covered.

IANALE, but I don't think this applies unless he informed the kids that he was placing them under arrest. This sort of citizen's arrest is how store security can legally detain shoplifters in some circumstances and locales, but there are still rules like this governing the arrests.


Look at item 2 on there again: it specifically includes exceptions for encountering "physical resistance" or "flight", both of which applied here since the little shiats were armed with hammers and were trying to get away.

That's moot though.  When the guy stuffed them in that closet he specifically told them "you can stay in there until the police arrive."  That's good enough for a citizen's arrest notice since he literally was telling them they were being detained so that they could be dealt with by law enforcement, which is the entire point of citizen's arrest.


Gyrfalcon: In no state may an arrest for a misdemeanor be made without it occurring in the presence of the arrestor.[43] In the case of felonies, a private person may make an arrest for a felony occurring outside his presence but the rule is that a felony must have, in fact, been committed . For example, imagine a suspect has been seen on surveillance video vandalizing a building to the extent that the arrestor believes it rises to a felony due to the damage. If he finds the suspect and makes the arrest but it later turns out that it was misdemeanor damage, the arrestor is liable for false arrest because a felony had not, in fact, been committed.


I bolded that first line, since that's the actual relevant one.  A citizen's arrest for misdemeanor crimes is allowed if the crime is witnessed by the person doing the arrest.  In this case, the homeowner came back home and saw with his own two eyes kids with hammers going to town on his house.  Even if that doesn't rise to the level of felony vandalism (which I think it does given the photos) he's in the clear.


One last thing to note regarding the charges, I'm hoping that this is actually a play by the DA's office to support this guy in a roundabout way.  Ages ago a friend of a friend had someone jump off a bridge in front of his car.  He wasn't arrested, but the DA charged him with vehicular manslaughter and scheduled a Grand Jury hearing that same day... where the case was thrown out.  He specifically told the driver that he did this because the Grand Jury formally declaring that the case had no merit would dramatically undercut any possible future civil claims against the driver.

It would be sweet sweet Schadenfreude to see that come true.  The DA "caves" to the angry parents of the delinquents only for the Grand Jury to swiftly dismiss the charge, leaving the stupid parents with almost no chance of bringing any sort of civil suit against the homeowner.
 
2013-06-16 06:13:58 PM

Infernalist: mrschwen: Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.

An insanity plea wouldn't work.

I really wouldn't care.  Fathers will do hard time and willingly so if you fark with their kids.  Someone without the legal authority locks my kids up?  He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.

Do not fark with a father's kids.


If you're first reaction to someone putting your kid in a closet (oh, the horror!) when your kid was completely out of control trashing that someone's house with a hammer was to go ballistic on the person who put your kid in the closet, I think society would know where to look to figure out why the kid was such a destructive ass already in life.
 
2013-06-16 06:14:29 PM
Shoulda just shot 'em
 
2013-06-16 06:15:14 PM
A real father teaches his kid that actions have consequences, and stupidity and criminal behavior usually has harsh consequences.  You bail out and enable your kid all you want, you're not doing them any favors.
 
2013-06-16 06:15:39 PM
If your first reaction...
 
2013-06-16 06:15:52 PM
So what would be a prudent thing to do in this situation?
I doubt they had ID's you could confiscate.

If they bolt, they would likely claim "I wasn't me"
How could you prove they were there?
Would "Each of you give me your right shoe" work?
 
2013-06-16 06:16:10 PM

Infernalist: mrschwen: Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.

An insanity plea wouldn't work.

I really wouldn't care.  Fathers will do hard time and willingly so if you fark with their kids.  Someone without the legal authority locks my kids up?  He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.

Do not fark with a father's kids.


He had the legal authority. The charge against him will probably not go very far.
 
2013-06-16 06:16:58 PM

hoihoi8: Infernalist: mrschwen: Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.

An insanity plea wouldn't work.

I really wouldn't care.  Fathers will do hard time and willingly so if you fark with their kids.  Someone without the legal authority locks my kids up?  He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.

Do not fark with a father's kids.

Don't raise shiaty kids and I won't fark with them. You sound like an overprotective helicopter parent. My dad would have thanked the dude and whoooped our ass on top of a minimum 1 year grounding.


I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not.  Don't fark with a father's kids.  You just don't do it.  You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.
 
2013-06-16 06:21:08 PM
Arthur Jumbles:
Really... its sounds like the father pressured the police to file the child endangerment charges so he'd have some leverage against the homeowner. I doubt there's anything that can be done about the charges against the kids but I bet he's hoping that the thousands of dollars in civil charges can be put on the table if he drops the child endangerment charges.

You can't press charges for child endangerment brainiac.  The father could pressure the state to file charges but the civil suit has zero to do with the criminal suit and the stupid kids father has zero say in how that goes.  You can't "drop" a state brought child endangerment charge to mitigate civil suit fines.
 
2013-06-16 06:21:41 PM
Bathia_Mapes:

... I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.
Good lord people are really this deluded? What kind of cellar dweller really believes cops would put any resources into this? ... someone who has watched far to much TV and had far to little real life experience.
 
2013-06-16 06:22:54 PM

yukichigai: It would be sweet sweet Schadenfreude to see that come true. The DA "caves" to the angry parents of the delinquents only for the Grand Jury to swiftly dismiss the charge, leaving the stupid parents with almost no chance of bringing any sort of civil suit against the homeowner.


And you may well be right. Arrest the man for overreaching (which he did) but with the full knowledge that the charges are baseless (which they are) and ensure that the man won't face civil charges AND ensure that next time the homeowner doesn't get even crazier and kneecap the kids or something.

There are other reasons for laws besides punishing the wrongdoer in the instant case, after all.
 
2013-06-16 06:23:34 PM

Krymson Tyde: Isn't that called kidnapping?


In many states it's called citizen's arrest.
 
2013-06-16 06:24:06 PM

Lost Thought 00: TuteTibiImperes: So is a citizen's arrest something that only exists in movies and TV shows?

Yes, it is.


No, its quite real. Google 'California Penal Code section 837' for an example statue.
 
2013-06-16 06:24:20 PM

Gyrfalcon: yukichigai: It would be sweet sweet Schadenfreude to see that come true. The DA "caves" to the angry parents of the delinquents only for the Grand Jury to swiftly dismiss the charge, leaving the stupid parents with almost no chance of bringing any sort of civil suit against the homeowner.

And you may well be right. Arrest the man for overreaching (which he did) but with the full knowledge that the charges are baseless (which they are) and ensure that the man won't face civil charges AND ensure that next time the homeowner doesn't get even crazier and kneecap the kids or something.

There are other reasons for laws besides punishing the wrongdoer in the instant case, after all.


The guy didn't overreach by arresting the kids.
 
2013-06-16 06:25:29 PM

Lost Thought 00: TuteTibiImperes: So is a citizen's arrest something that only exists in movies and TV shows?

Yes, it is.


No, it's not. The law varies from state to state, but generally requires that you personally witness a felony, use the minimum necessary force to detain the suspect, and promptly turn the prisoner over to the police.
 
2013-06-16 06:26:06 PM

yukichigai: T Baggins: Snapper Carr: N.Y. CPL. LAW § 140.35 : NY Code - Section 140.35: Arrest without a warrant; by person acting other than as a police officer or a peace officer....
2. Such person must inform the person whom he is arresting of the
reason for such arrest unless he encounters physical resistance, flight
or other factors rendering such procedure impractical.
....
IANAL but it seems like he's covered.

IANALE, but I don't think this applies unless he informed the kids that he was placing them under arrest. This sort of citizen's arrest is how store security can legally detain shoplifters in some circumstances and locales, but there are still rules like this governing the arrests.

Look at item 2 on there again: it specifically includes exceptions for encountering "physical resistance" or "flight", both of which applied here since the little shiats were armed with hammers and were trying to get away.

That's moot though.  When the guy stuffed them in that closet he specifically told them "you can stay in there until the police arrive."  That's good enough for a citizen's arrest notice since he literally was telling them they were being detained so that they could be dealt with by law enforcement, which is the entire point of citizen's arrest.


Gyrfalcon: In no state may an arrest for a misdemeanor be made without it occurring in the presence of the arrestor.[43] In the case of felonies, a private person may make an arrest for a felony occurring outside his presence but the rule is that a felony must have, in fact, been committed . For example, imagine a suspect has been seen on surveillance video vandalizing a building to the extent that the arrestor believes it rises to a felony due to the damage. If he finds the suspect and makes the arrest but it later turns out that it was misdemeanor damage, the arrestor is liable for false arrest because a felony had not, in fact, been committed.

I bolded that first line, since that's the actual relevant one.  A citizen's ...


FTA:  "Clyde Village Police returned the children to their parents, who live just down the street, and filed felony criminal charges of 2nd degree burglary and 2nd degree criminal mischief. "

They did in fact commit a felony.  The statute makes no exceptions for the person arrested being a juvenile.
 
2013-06-16 06:26:45 PM

Infernalist: .

I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not.  Don't fark with a father's kids.  You just don't do it.  You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.


I'm just glad my dad's not like you. I'm sure I'm a better person for it.
 
2013-06-16 06:28:11 PM
Mental note... if one of Infernalist's kids is raping my wife, preemptively kill Infernalist because he will irrationally defend scum that deserves to die rather than having the honor to cull his own like a good family would.
 
2013-06-16 06:28:50 PM

Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth


...and you'll be spending a long time in prison, ITG, sparing your kids frome further expose to your piss-poor parenting skills.
 
2013-06-16 06:29:13 PM

Bschott007: RickN99: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least.

He detained multiple armed criminals, caught in the commission of numerous crimes on his property, until the police arrived.  Cite one state's law where this is considered "kidnapping".

it's not...he is being charged with ENDANGERING A CHILD.  Which I can't see how he endangered these kids by stuffing them in a closet.


"But..but...but...the little shiat angels might hurt each other!"
 
2013-06-16 06:29:39 PM

WorldCitizen: Infernalist: .

I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not.  Don't fark with a father's kids.  You just don't do it.  You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.

I'm just glad my dad's not like you. I'm sure I'm a better person for it.


I don't really give a shiat, but thanks for offering up your completely irrelevant opinion.

Personally, I think if you're okay with a stranger locking your kids up in a closet, you're a shiatty father and person in general.

But hey, you go ahead and hate my approach to kids and I'll hate your approach to kids and we'll happily scorn each other.

But, either way, don't farking touch my kids.
 
2013-06-16 06:31:48 PM

Airius: Mental note... if one of Infernalist's kids is raping my wife, preemptively kill Infernalist because he will irrationally defend scum that deserves to die rather than having the honor to cull his own like a good family would.


You can try.

AndreMA: Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth

...and you'll be spending a long time in prison, ITG, sparing your kids frome further expose to your piss-poor parenting skills.


You really don't get it.  If you fark with my kids, not only will I happily murder your ass, but I'll smile as I do hard time for it.   Some things are worth doing time over.
 
2013-06-16 06:32:04 PM
Just remember, if Infernalist's kids do anything that by any normal measures deem them unfit to live in our society, you have to cull Infernalist too... he just put you on notice.

BTW Infernalist, a good father cleans up his own messes --- and as a result has children that don't need to be cleaned up.
 
2013-06-16 06:32:56 PM

Airius: Just remember, if Infernalist's kids do anything that by any normal measures deem them unfit to live in our society, you have to cull Infernalist too... he just put you on notice.

BTW Infernalist, a good father cleans up his own messes --- and as a result has children that don't need to be cleaned up.


Like I said, you can try.
 
2013-06-16 06:35:28 PM

Infernalist: Airius: Mental note... if one of Infernalist's kids is raping my wife, preemptively kill Infernalist because he will irrationally defend scum that deserves to die rather than having the honor to cull his own like a good family would.

You can try.

AndreMA: Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth

...and you'll be spending a long time in prison, ITG, sparing your kids frome further expose to your piss-poor parenting skills.

You really don't get it.  If you fark with my kids, not only will I happily murder your ass, but I'll smile as I do hard time for it.   Some things are worth doing time over.


And you're defending -- by your own words -- mini-Dahmers.

I'm generally opposed to preventive executions.

/generally
 
2013-06-16 06:36:50 PM
I'm guessing if irrational hotheadedness is a genetic trait, there's a good chance Infernalist's kids are going to end up in jail anyway. He might as well end up there beside them when irrationally attacking the victims of his kids' crimes.
 
2013-06-16 06:38:55 PM

mrlewish: They would never find them.
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 474x652]


Shoot, shovel, shaddup!
 
2013-06-16 06:40:25 PM
AndreMA --- at least the people who surreptitiously clean society do it anonymously at 300 yards while the people needing culling are loading their groceries in the car, rather than in the internet tough guy bare-knuckled fisticuffs manner with all the ego and bravado attached to it that Infernalist seems to think he will get his chance at...

someday he might piss one off... or given how he probably has raised his children... they might.

/generally
 
2013-06-16 06:41:21 PM

WorldCitizen: I'm guessing if irrational hotheadedness is a genetic trait, there's a good chance Infernalist's kids are going to end up in jail anyway. He might as well end up there beside them when irrationally attacking the victims of his kids' crimes.


Perhaps not genetic, but certainly learned. I urge Infernalist to show his remarks to the local CPS and explore foster care or adoption.
 
2013-06-16 06:49:29 PM
AndreMA

Actually the type of behavior of overcompensation I am observing here often comes from divorced-sans-custody men who are behind on their child support.
 
2013-06-16 06:53:10 PM

Infernalist: mrschwen: Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.

An insanity plea wouldn't work.

I really wouldn't care.  Fathers will do hard time and willingly so if you fark with their kids.  Someone without the legal authority locks my kids up?  He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.

Do not fark with a father's kids.


Oohh LOOK we got a badass over here!

Your kids sound like snowflakes.
 
2013-06-16 07:02:06 PM

Airius: AndreMA

Actually the type of behavior of overcompensation I am observing here often comes from divorced-sans-custody men who are behind on their child support.


I can certainly understand how that might come to pass, assuming that many of the horror stories of gender bias in the resolution of custody issues are true. Posturing by expressing a willingness to murder isn't very productive in such determinations reversed, though. Courts of all sorts tend to frown on even conditional willingness to commit serious crimes.

/nor is trolling on fark, another possible explanation
 
2013-06-16 07:05:21 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


You sound as shiatty a parent as the parents of these worthless thugs in training. You don't beat up a victim of a crime. If my children were involved, they would be forced, by me, to offer their free labor, along with my money to buy replacement materials, in exchange for dropping charges. They would learn a very valuable lesson in how actions have consequences without having to be ruined by the penal system.
 
2013-06-16 07:06:11 PM

Airius: AndreMA

Actually the type of behavior of overcompensation I am observing here often comes from divorced-sans-custody men who are behind on their child support.


He's a loudmouthed, ITG twat who has just preemptively provided a solid alibi to anyone who shoots him in the face the moment he carries his Internet fantasies of violence into the analog world. Let me tell you, one of the hallmarks of violent criminals is there unmitigated stupidity in condemning themselves. I'm willing to bet he has court orders forcing him to stay away from "his" kids
 
2013-06-16 07:11:54 PM

Azlefty:  While it would really piss me off, but I really doubt I would threaten 8-10 year old kids with a hammer over it; the parents maybe, the kids no.

The kids were not hurt.  They were not allowed to leave until the cops showed up, but they didn't get shot, they didn't go the hospital, they aren't walking on crutches, they don't even have any bruises to show.

All he did was make sure they were still there when the cops showed up, so they would be punished for their crimes, and he's the one in jail.

What that leads to is either thugs being allowed to do whatever they want, or people taking care of the problem on their own without calling the cops.  Next time, he has a lot of incentive to just shoot them and be done with it.

Infernalist: You really don't get it. If you fark with my kids, not only will I happily murder your ass, but I'll smile as I do hard time for it. Some things are worth doing time over.


That "My kids can do anything they want and if you try to stop them, I'll kill you" attitude is exactly why these kids are getting away with trashing a house.  Someone should shoot you and your kids, both.

Gyrfalcon: Man, I love all the GED lawyers springing up around Fark lately.


You're usually pretty bright, but the idea that "only people with law degrees are allowed to have an opinion" isn't up at your usual standards.

 
2013-06-16 07:15:42 PM
Here is a local article with more info. The comments are worth reading.

A quote from the "parent" of the little shiats:

"I understand they were in the wrong, but there are other ways to handle it," he said. "He (Daniels) knew who the kids were. It's not like they were strangers. And send the kids home and call the cops then. You don't sit there and torment them and tell them you're going to bash their skulls in with a hammer."
Bowler said Daniels grabbed the neck of one of his sons and left a mark. He said that his boys are traumatized and that Daniels should have faced more charges.


Well, Mr. Bowler, I believe I understand why your children are such little assholes.
 
2013-06-16 07:31:35 PM

Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.



You sound special.  The retarded kind.
 
2013-06-16 07:41:22 PM

Infernalist: But, either way, don't farking touch my kids.


Waves finger 1mm in front of your kids face.  "I'm not touching them"
 
2013-06-16 07:42:27 PM

JuggleGeek: Gyrfalcon: Man, I love all the GED lawyers springing up around Fark lately.

You're usually pretty bright, but the idea that "only people with law degrees are allowed to have an opinion" isn't up at your usual standards.


You were far more polite in saying that than I would've been.
 
2013-06-16 07:44:31 PM
Look, just because I love my kids more than you love yours, that's no reason to make disparaging remarks about my character.
 
2013-06-16 07:45:39 PM
Another comment from the above posted article cracks me up:

I tell you what Mr. Bowler, someone needs to install a little fear into your hoodlums so they wont do stuff like this again. Apparently you have failed as a parent. You should have taken your boys home and reamed them out, so much that they wished they were back in that closet.
 
kab
2013-06-16 07:46:43 PM

jehovahs witness protection: Should have shot the little bastards.


done in 3.
 
kab
2013-06-16 07:49:07 PM

Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not. Don't fark with a father's kids. You just don't do it. You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.


Then keep your ill-raised imaginary crotch fruit on a farking leash.  Deal?  Deal.
 
2013-06-16 07:53:02 PM
"Children of the parents pressured authorities to make the arrest..."

He needs to go over and take a baseball bat to these parents.

// The little monsters are enabled by idiotic, permissive parenting where their little precious snow-flakes are never guilty of anything - no matter now strong the evidence.
 
2013-06-16 07:57:33 PM

gblive: "Children of the parents pressured authorities to make the arrest..."


Authorities should also be taken to task for yielding to the pressure. If the prosecutor goes ahead on the charges, this guy is going to have pretty hefty legal expenses which would be nearly impossible to recover in civil litigation.
 
2013-06-16 07:57:37 PM

OtherLittleGuy: If the kids were part of a spree of break-ins, yup, they would have gotten the CSI kits out.

CSB: my aunt had her house broken in, cops were looking for the kids, found a nice fingerprint on the window sill, called up the database, bingo. Found the perps, her stuff, and other people stuff.


Wow.  No idea where your aunt lives, but lucky for her.  Down here, property crimes are laughed off.  I had a bike stolen, called the cops.  I was new to the city, didn't know how things worked.  And I new what direction they went in, just minutes earlier.  The cop just laughed at me and said "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas."  Cop left shaking his head.

It was all good, I was out at $90 bike.  But it was a somewhat funny wake up call on how crap goes down in the city- after living in the 'burbs for 30 years.
 
2013-06-16 07:58:52 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


Have fun in jail for assault.

Infernalist: He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.


Murder One and you'd face the death penalty. All because your kids acted like spoiled brats and you decided to act up. You must be a really crappy father.
 
2013-06-16 08:00:39 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


You played the bad guy in Taken 2, didn't you?

"I don't care that my sons were all rapists and murderers, I will still love them and kill to avenge them!" was his schtick. So farking retarded.
 
2013-06-16 08:07:27 PM
I'm curious on the whole "citizens arrest" part as well.  Isn't the whole point of that being you can detain someone you see *allegedly* commiting a crime until the cops show up?

That's not kidnapping unless you actually don't call the cops.

Down here it may take hours for cops to show up for non life-threatening issues.  If someone physically assults someone at a bar, there's going to be a bunch of people holding him down... and, yeah, maybe even locking him in the back until the cops show up.

Kinda thought that was the whole point of citizens arrest.  Detaining a suspect until cops could arrive.  Once they do, its their deal... release them, arrest them, whatever.

But you do want citizens on the look out to a certain extent, and sometimes that means detaining someone.

Most police forces are understaffed.  God knows my city's is.
 
2013-06-16 08:12:28 PM

downstairs: Wow. No idea where your aunt lives, but lucky for her. Down here, property crimes are laughed off. I had a bike stolen, called the cops. I was new to the city, didn't know how things worked. And I new what direction they went in, just minutes earlier. The cop just laughed at me and said "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas." Cop left shaking his head.

It was all good, I was out at $90 bike. But it was a somewhat funny wake up call on how crap goes down in the city- after living in the 'burbs for 30 years.


Parents live in the mountains just outside of Roanoke, Virginia.  During the last ten years, there's been a few strings of break ins.  Police have taken fingerprints and even dna (dumbasses cut themselves on a few of the break ins).  Number of convictions from the dna.
 
2013-06-16 08:14:55 PM

downstairs: "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas." Cop left shaking his head.


Cop is morally but not legally an accessory after the fact. Bear that in mind if you ever encountering him bleeding to death at the roadside.
 
2013-06-16 08:16:20 PM

Infernalist: Look, just because I love my kids more than you love yours, that's no reason to make disparaging remarks about my character.


The only disparaging remarks being made about your character are being made by you.
 
2013-06-16 08:17:17 PM
Clyde, NY is a little burp of a village on the edge of the Montezuma Swamp. It has 2300 residents. It has no police force. The area is covered by Wayne County Sheriffs and NY Troopers. We're talking serious sticks here.
 
2013-06-16 08:28:26 PM

AndreMA: downstairs: "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas." Cop left shaking his head.

Cop is morally but not legally an accessory after the fact. Bear that in mind if you ever encountering him bleeding to death at the roadside.


Eh, not going there.  Our cops are doing the best they can.  Kinda have their hands full with all the murder and the like.  My story was more about me moving to the city from the 'burbs.
 
2013-06-16 08:29:51 PM

Airius: Just remember, if Infernalist's kids do anything that by any normal measures deem them unfit to live in our society, you have to cull Infernalist too... he just put you on notice.

BTW Infernalist, a good father cleans up his own messes --- and as a result has children that don't need to be cleaned up.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-06-16 08:37:47 PM

kab: Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not. Don't fark with a father's kids. You just don't do it. You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.

Then keep your ill-raised imaginary crotch fruit on a farking leash.  Deal?  Deal.



Agreed.  I understand protective parents, but if you really want to protect your kids then don't let them wander onto my property with hammers and poor decision-making skills.
 
2013-06-16 08:45:07 PM

Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.


Your kids shouldn't be farking with other people's homes, tough guy.
 
2013-06-16 08:47:19 PM
Really, if you ask me, when you break into someones house you are taking the risk of becoming the hind end of the human centipede...  You never know.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-16 08:47:36 PM
I guess he should have just farking shot and killed them.
 
2013-06-16 08:53:14 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: nickerj1: thamike: The_Sponge: It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.

Legally, it could be kidnapping, more likely false imprisonment.  Obviously, it would have been a bullsh*t charge that wouldn't have gone anywhere, hence the lack of aforementioned charges.

Legally, it could be jack shiat since they were in the commission of a felony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

Go herp your derp somewhere else.

I came in here expecting Thamike's brand of stupid, and I wasn't disappointed.

The threads I've seen in him today have each put him squarely in the defense of the establishment, which I suppose is a polite way of saying in the sheep category.


Problem with both you guys is that you base everything on your opinion and you fight over the internet about it, completely unaware that some people just discuss what's going on.  Especially about small time bullsh*t like this.

Not being arbitrarily anti-establishment doesn't make one a sheep.

I don't think you really want to bring up other threads, seeing as how you seem to value your own credibility, albeit in an a self defeating way.
 
2013-06-16 08:55:09 PM
Really deserves the stupid tag. The police should have arrested the vandals instead and not the victim.
 
2013-06-16 08:56:09 PM

theknuckler_33: I guess he should have just farking shot and killed them.


Killing an armed home invader is almost a requirement in the US.  Legal in all 50 states!
 
2013-06-16 09:02:27 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well.



It's completely legal to detain someone who is actively committing a crime against you.

I guess he could face charges for threatening a child with a hammer, if there is any evidence that actually occurred.  But not kidnapping.  That's silly.
 
2013-06-16 09:10:16 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well.


It's completely legal to detain someone who is actively committing a crime against you.

I guess he could face charges for threatening a child with a hammer, if there is any evidence that actually occurred.  But not kidnapping.  That's silly.


Yeah, like I said--kidnapping or false imprisonment would never stick.  The more I think about it, the more it seems the cops did this guy a favor by bringing endangerment charges.  After those have been dismissed, the parents really don't have much choice other than paying the damages, or face a civil suit with an even higher price tag (mental anguish, loss of time, loss of wages, etc.)  Kid's won't be felony-beefed up either.  Community service, counseling, juvi probation, house arrest, etc.
 
2013-06-16 09:11:05 PM
Kids, that is.
 
2013-06-16 09:15:30 PM
I would hope the press follows up on this story - I want to see what happens to those kids & the guy
 
2013-06-16 09:21:24 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

 
2013-06-16 09:55:35 PM
I wonder how Snowflake Parents would react if he'd held the children at shotgun point until the police arrived.

Totally legal.
 
2013-06-16 10:08:06 PM

Infernalist: hoihoi8: Infernalist: mrschwen: Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.

An insanity plea wouldn't work.

I really wouldn't care.  Fathers will do hard time and willingly so if you fark with their kids.  Someone without the legal authority locks my kids up?  He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.

Do not fark with a father's kids.

Don't raise shiaty kids and I won't fark with them. You sound like an overprotective helicopter parent. My dad would have thanked the dude and whoooped our ass on top of a minimum 1 year grounding.

I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not.  Don't fark with a father's kids.  You just don't do it.  You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.


Now farkied as "Serious moron helicopter parent farktard". In red 3.
 
2013-06-16 10:13:38 PM
I don't Get the legal system in the US,  any other country in the world they owners of the Generic malfunction
might just be told to clear up his act before even starting wasting time and public money defending his universal rights to be a bad Dad.

IN my book they lucky one of the kids did not end up getting uses for filling in the coming repairs why even call the police
save the world and just hammer them
 
2013-06-16 10:16:09 PM

GreenSun: Really deserves the stupid tag. The police should have arrested the vandals instead and not the victim.


If only there were some kind of article that you could have read with details.
You know, about who was arrested, why, and what they were charged with.

If only these headlines actually linked somewhere.
oh well, back to reading horoscopes
 
2013-06-16 10:20:00 PM
There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.
 
2013-06-16 10:25:10 PM

downstairs: OtherLittleGuy: If the kids were part of a spree of break-ins, yup, they would have gotten the CSI kits out.

CSB: my aunt had her house broken in, cops were looking for the kids, found a nice fingerprint on the window sill, called up the database, bingo. Found the perps, her stuff, and other people stuff.

Wow.  No idea where your aunt lives, but lucky for her.  Down here, property crimes are laughed off.  I had a bike stolen, called the cops.  I was new to the city, didn't know how things worked.  And I new what direction they went in, just minutes earlier.  The cop just laughed at me and said "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas."  Cop left shaking his head.

It was all good, I was out at $90 bike.  But it was a somewhat funny wake up call on how crap goes down in the city- after living in the 'burbs for 30 years.


And that's when you say "But officer, here's the serial numbers. He can bullshiat all he wants about how his friend gave it to him and it was a present."
 
2013-06-16 10:27:53 PM

PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.


Did you look at the pictures? Hardly petty. They ruined the house. Not to mention that they entered this house armed. No I wouldn't want them beaten or killed, but let's not pretend they're kids being kids. They're felons. And they're damned lucky a few minutes in a closet is all he did to them.
 
2013-06-16 10:30:32 PM

PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.


It stops being petty when the amount is over $2,000.
 
2013-06-16 10:33:02 PM

Infernalist: WorldCitizen: Infernalist: .

I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not.  Don't fark with a father's kids.  You just don't do it.  You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.

I'm just glad my dad's not like you. I'm sure I'm a better person for it.

I don't really give a shiat, but thanks for offering up your completely irrelevant opinion.

Personally, I think if you're okay with a stranger locking your kids up in a closet, you're a shiatty father and person in general.

But hey, you go ahead and hate my approach to kids and I'll hate your approach to kids and we'll happily scorn each other.

But, either way, don't farking touch my kids.


Looks like we found the proud parent of the kids from the article.
 
2013-06-16 10:42:55 PM

quickdraw: citizens arrest?


That's what I was thinking too.

I don't know about New York law, but in Kentucky an average citizen can make a citizens arrest if they catch somebody in the act of committing a felony, but they have to immediately contact police to hand them over to them and let them handle it (also, a citizen's arrest is strict liability about false arrest, so if it turns out not to be a felony then you're in a heap of trouble, even if you thought it was that at the time, while a peace officer doesn't have to worry about that as long as they had probable cause to believe it was a felony).

You call 911 the moment you realize you're being robbed, you find the robbers, you detain them, the police show up, they take the robbers away.

Then again, this is New York, and while Lord Bloomberg only directly rules part of it, he tries hard to get the entire place turned into the Nanny State.

Also, yet another Opposing Views link?  That site is trolleriffic with the derp in general.  I'd trust a link coming from reputable media instead of a "your blog sucks" place like that, which basically passes off blog entries as news.
 
2013-06-16 10:49:34 PM

PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.


petty?
petty is breaking a window
10-50k in damages is a felony

you dont think this is their first offense do you?
you can bet your life that it wont be their last.

/it is always funny when we read about ... two brothers planting bombs for example, and we wonder, how did that happen? how did they get from little babies in a crib to killing people? My guess is that there are steps along the way. nova did a GREAT episode on that recently
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/mind-rampage-killer.html
 
2013-06-16 10:53:11 PM

Silverstaff: I don't know about New York law, but in Kentucky an average citizen can make a citizens arrest if they catch somebody in the act of committing a felony, but they have to immediately contact police to hand them over to them


This is legal in every state.
It used to be (might still be in some places) against the law to NOT capture people you saw committing a felony (misprision).
Things get wonky if you use deadly force.
Things get REALLY ugly if the person you arrest did not actually commit a crime.
 
2013-06-16 10:54:25 PM

Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.


But the second part of your plan, the one I believe Maui meant would get you rightfully shot, was beating your kids within an inch of their lives, not going after whoever locked them up.
 
2013-06-16 10:58:51 PM

PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.


Actually, these were not petty crimes if felony charges followed. If they were petty it would have been a misdemeanor.
 
2013-06-16 11:03:26 PM

advres: Arthur Jumbles:
Really... its sounds like the father pressured the police to file the child endangerment charges so he'd have some leverage against the homeowner. I doubt there's anything that can be done about the charges against the kids but I bet he's hoping that the thousands of dollars in civil charges can be put on the table if he drops the child endangerment charges.

You can't press charges for child endangerment brainiac.  The father could pressure the state to file charges but the civil suit has zero to do with the criminal suit and the stupid kids father has zero say in how that goes.  You can't "drop" a state brought child endangerment charge to mitigate civil suit fines.


But they could file a civil suit for the ongoing emotional and psychological distress and trauma their innocent little angels are experiencing due to being forcibly restrained and incarcerated. I am thinking that the drawing that one of the kids made was done at the parents' behest to add credibility to such a claim.
 
2013-06-16 11:13:34 PM
Good
 
2013-06-16 11:20:17 PM

downstairs: AndreMA: downstairs: "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas." Cop left shaking his head.

Cop is morally but not legally an accessory after the fact. Bear that in mind if you ever encountering him bleeding to death at the roadside.

Eh, not going there.  Our cops are doing the best they can.  Kinda have their hands full with all the murder and the like.


Maybe if they didn't let little crimes (like, say, stealing a bike?) be profitable for the criminals, people would , I dunno, learn to not be criminals?
 
2013-06-16 11:44:30 PM
Citizens arrest is related to rights under common law unless there is statute law that says otherwise.

The ancient conditions of common law citizen arrest was that it could be used to prevent additional property damage. i.e. if the person had not been stopped, it would be clear that felony damage would have continued.

The fact they were young is another issue.  Around here the kids are learning to say "I'm only 13" which means the police can't even detain them for criminal acts even when the kids look 17.  However they can be taken into custody for a psych eval.

My grandfather cautioned my uncles, "any man in this town who has a belt can and will beat you for doing anything wrong and will do it with by blessing"
 
2013-06-16 11:46:42 PM

Mrbogey: thamike: I have no idea what you're talking about.

You said something that was wrong. It was pointed out by numerous people. "Bruising" to your ego most likely occurred. Ergo under your loose definition of things, you were the victim of an assault.


You mean battery...
 
2013-06-17 12:05:11 AM

namegoeshere: PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.

Did you look at the pictures? Hardly petty. They ruined the house. Not to mention that they entered this house armed. No I wouldn't want them beaten or killed, but let's not pretend they're kids being kids. They're felons. And they're damned lucky a few minutes in a closet is all he did to them.


Seriously. In light of the damage and other evidence, if he'd gone there with a firearm to investigate a burglary, shot them all dead, and then claimed self-defense against hammer-wielding felons, most sane jurors would acquit if it ever made it to trial.

The kids are lucky to be alive.
 
2013-06-17 12:08:05 AM

fredklein: Maybe if they didn't let little crimes (like, say, stealing a bike?) be profitable for the criminals, people would , I dunno, learn to not be criminals?


Precisely. The same "broken window" theory that police and politicians are so eager to embrace when seeking budget increases.

But in this case, with these particular punks, it's a potentially valid deterrent.
 
2013-06-17 02:01:13 AM

Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not. Don't fark with a father's kids. You just don't do it. You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.


If you actually behave this way in real life, what will happen instead is that you will end up in bankruptcy court after the inevitable civil judgment comes down.  If you're really lucky, these two courts will be in the same building, so you won't even need to offer blow jobs at the bus station for cab fare.  Your life will still be pretty much over either way.  Maybe your kids will support you in your old age, but I doubt it.
 
2013-06-17 03:18:31 AM

Krymson Tyde: Isn't that called kidnapping?


No, it's called citizens' arrest.
 
2013-06-17 03:33:38 AM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


Do your damn job and your kids won't get all traumatized and whatnot.
 
2013-06-17 04:14:50 AM

thamike: The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.


I wish people would read articles before commenting.

"Daniels told 13WHAM it was 9 p.m. on a Saturday when his wife told him she heard noises coming from her father's home next door. He told her to call 911 while he went over to check it out. Inside, he found four children destroying the house."

So 911 was called AS Daniels went over to check on the noises. He then encountered the kids and confined them. Unless 911 was dysfunctional that day, the police were already on the move before the kids were in the closet.

/And it wasn't kidnapping either.
//Kids were involved so you won't get a zero in reading comprehension.
 
2013-06-17 04:16:42 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Mrbogey: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.

Looking at the photos of how they left the place I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.


What kind of fantasy world do you live in where cops take fingerprints for property crimes?

My god you're a farking idiot.
 
2013-06-17 05:43:28 AM

RastaKins: I wish people would read articles before commenting.


I wish people would read the thread before they lose their sh*t.
 
2013-06-17 06:21:51 AM
Doesn't sound like the guy did anything wrong.
And those parents should be ashamed of themselves.
Ashamed and out at least 12.500$ each.
 
2013-06-17 10:07:51 AM

theknuckler_33: I guess he should have just farking shot and killed them.


Nah, he should have killed the parents.

AndreMA: Seriously. In light of the damage and other evidence, if he'd gone there with a firearm to investigate a burglary, shot them all dead, and then claimed self-defense against hammer-wielding felons, most sane jurors would acquit if it ever made it to trial.

The kids are lucky to be alive.


As long as he hit them in the front.
 
2013-06-17 11:14:02 AM
Infernalist sure got a lot of bites


/doubt he even has kids
 
2013-06-17 11:31:55 AM

Okieboy: Infernalist sure got a lot of bites


/doubt he even has kids


Never ascribe to trolling that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
 
2013-06-17 03:15:40 PM
He was arrested because the parents complained so the police have to respond to the complaint but once this reaches the prosecutor's desk I'm sure charges will be dropped.

/unless one of the little shaits is related to the prosecutor or some other weird small town justice thing
 
2013-06-17 04:19:14 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


That's funny.  It'll be even more funny when you wake up handcuffed to a hospital bed tough guy. Keep on "keepin' it REAL, Yo!"
 
2013-06-17 04:51:13 PM
That's why you shoot intruders in the face.
 
2013-06-17 05:29:01 PM

Rubix^3: That's why you shoot intruders in the face.


www.carterburwell.com

So the cops don't know they're midgets?
 
2013-06-17 06:06:04 PM

relaxitsjustme: He was arrested because the parents complained so the police have to respond to the complaint but once this reaches the prosecutor's desk I'm sure charges will be dropped.


Police officers do not have to arrest someone every time there is a complaint.  I could call and say my next door neighbor is a mass murderer, but if there isn't any evidence, they aren't going to arrest him.

In this case, I think the guy will get off when it gets to court, assuming it makes it that far, and I think there is a good chance it will get dropped before it reaches the courtroom.  But he has to go hire an attorney *now*.  Not later, not after he is sitting in court and realizes "Oh, they are really going to follow up on this".  He has to do it now.
 
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