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(Opposing Views)   Is this man facing two years in jail for a.) theft, b.) assault or c.) locking up kids who were vandalizing his home in a closet until police could arrive?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 264
    More: Stupid, vandals, jail  
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7424 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2013 at 3:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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kab
2013-06-16 07:49:07 PM

Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not. Don't fark with a father's kids. You just don't do it. You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.


Then keep your ill-raised imaginary crotch fruit on a farking leash.  Deal?  Deal.
 
2013-06-16 07:53:02 PM
"Children of the parents pressured authorities to make the arrest..."

He needs to go over and take a baseball bat to these parents.

// The little monsters are enabled by idiotic, permissive parenting where their little precious snow-flakes are never guilty of anything - no matter now strong the evidence.
 
2013-06-16 07:57:33 PM

gblive: "Children of the parents pressured authorities to make the arrest..."


Authorities should also be taken to task for yielding to the pressure. If the prosecutor goes ahead on the charges, this guy is going to have pretty hefty legal expenses which would be nearly impossible to recover in civil litigation.
 
2013-06-16 07:57:37 PM

OtherLittleGuy: If the kids were part of a spree of break-ins, yup, they would have gotten the CSI kits out.

CSB: my aunt had her house broken in, cops were looking for the kids, found a nice fingerprint on the window sill, called up the database, bingo. Found the perps, her stuff, and other people stuff.


Wow.  No idea where your aunt lives, but lucky for her.  Down here, property crimes are laughed off.  I had a bike stolen, called the cops.  I was new to the city, didn't know how things worked.  And I new what direction they went in, just minutes earlier.  The cop just laughed at me and said "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas."  Cop left shaking his head.

It was all good, I was out at $90 bike.  But it was a somewhat funny wake up call on how crap goes down in the city- after living in the 'burbs for 30 years.
 
2013-06-16 07:58:52 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


Have fun in jail for assault.

Infernalist: He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.


Murder One and you'd face the death penalty. All because your kids acted like spoiled brats and you decided to act up. You must be a really crappy father.
 
2013-06-16 08:00:39 PM

Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.


You played the bad guy in Taken 2, didn't you?

"I don't care that my sons were all rapists and murderers, I will still love them and kill to avenge them!" was his schtick. So farking retarded.
 
2013-06-16 08:07:27 PM
I'm curious on the whole "citizens arrest" part as well.  Isn't the whole point of that being you can detain someone you see *allegedly* commiting a crime until the cops show up?

That's not kidnapping unless you actually don't call the cops.

Down here it may take hours for cops to show up for non life-threatening issues.  If someone physically assults someone at a bar, there's going to be a bunch of people holding him down... and, yeah, maybe even locking him in the back until the cops show up.

Kinda thought that was the whole point of citizens arrest.  Detaining a suspect until cops could arrive.  Once they do, its their deal... release them, arrest them, whatever.

But you do want citizens on the look out to a certain extent, and sometimes that means detaining someone.

Most police forces are understaffed.  God knows my city's is.
 
2013-06-16 08:12:28 PM

downstairs: Wow. No idea where your aunt lives, but lucky for her. Down here, property crimes are laughed off. I had a bike stolen, called the cops. I was new to the city, didn't know how things worked. And I new what direction they went in, just minutes earlier. The cop just laughed at me and said "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas." Cop left shaking his head.

It was all good, I was out at $90 bike. But it was a somewhat funny wake up call on how crap goes down in the city- after living in the 'burbs for 30 years.


Parents live in the mountains just outside of Roanoke, Virginia.  During the last ten years, there's been a few strings of break ins.  Police have taken fingerprints and even dna (dumbasses cut themselves on a few of the break ins).  Number of convictions from the dna.
 
2013-06-16 08:14:55 PM

downstairs: "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas." Cop left shaking his head.


Cop is morally but not legally an accessory after the fact. Bear that in mind if you ever encountering him bleeding to death at the roadside.
 
2013-06-16 08:16:20 PM

Infernalist: Look, just because I love my kids more than you love yours, that's no reason to make disparaging remarks about my character.


The only disparaging remarks being made about your character are being made by you.
 
2013-06-16 08:17:17 PM
Clyde, NY is a little burp of a village on the edge of the Montezuma Swamp. It has 2300 residents. It has no police force. The area is covered by Wayne County Sheriffs and NY Troopers. We're talking serious sticks here.
 
2013-06-16 08:28:26 PM

AndreMA: downstairs: "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas." Cop left shaking his head.

Cop is morally but not legally an accessory after the fact. Bear that in mind if you ever encountering him bleeding to death at the roadside.


Eh, not going there.  Our cops are doing the best they can.  Kinda have their hands full with all the murder and the like.  My story was more about me moving to the city from the 'burbs.
 
2013-06-16 08:29:51 PM

Airius: Just remember, if Infernalist's kids do anything that by any normal measures deem them unfit to live in our society, you have to cull Infernalist too... he just put you on notice.

BTW Infernalist, a good father cleans up his own messes --- and as a result has children that don't need to be cleaned up.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-06-16 08:37:47 PM

kab: Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not. Don't fark with a father's kids. You just don't do it. You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.

Then keep your ill-raised imaginary crotch fruit on a farking leash.  Deal?  Deal.



Agreed.  I understand protective parents, but if you really want to protect your kids then don't let them wander onto my property with hammers and poor decision-making skills.
 
2013-06-16 08:45:07 PM

Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.


Your kids shouldn't be farking with other people's homes, tough guy.
 
2013-06-16 08:47:19 PM
Really, if you ask me, when you break into someones house you are taking the risk of becoming the hind end of the human centipede...  You never know.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-16 08:47:36 PM
I guess he should have just farking shot and killed them.
 
2013-06-16 08:53:14 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: nickerj1: thamike: The_Sponge: It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.

Legally, it could be kidnapping, more likely false imprisonment.  Obviously, it would have been a bullsh*t charge that wouldn't have gone anywhere, hence the lack of aforementioned charges.

Legally, it could be jack shiat since they were in the commission of a felony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

Go herp your derp somewhere else.

I came in here expecting Thamike's brand of stupid, and I wasn't disappointed.

The threads I've seen in him today have each put him squarely in the defense of the establishment, which I suppose is a polite way of saying in the sheep category.


Problem with both you guys is that you base everything on your opinion and you fight over the internet about it, completely unaware that some people just discuss what's going on.  Especially about small time bullsh*t like this.

Not being arbitrarily anti-establishment doesn't make one a sheep.

I don't think you really want to bring up other threads, seeing as how you seem to value your own credibility, albeit in an a self defeating way.
 
2013-06-16 08:55:09 PM
Really deserves the stupid tag. The police should have arrested the vandals instead and not the victim.
 
2013-06-16 08:56:09 PM

theknuckler_33: I guess he should have just farking shot and killed them.


Killing an armed home invader is almost a requirement in the US.  Legal in all 50 states!
 
2013-06-16 09:00:43 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Citizens Arrest
 
2013-06-16 09:02:27 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well.



It's completely legal to detain someone who is actively committing a crime against you.

I guess he could face charges for threatening a child with a hammer, if there is any evidence that actually occurred.  But not kidnapping.  That's silly.
 
2013-06-16 09:07:25 PM

born_yesterday: BarkingUnicorn: The kids had hammers, too.  He could have made it look like they killed each other.

Or, forced them at gunpoint  to fight each other with the hammers, promising to let the survivor win.

Then shot the survivor and claimed the kid was a maniac and he was just sorry he was late saving the other kids.


only if they played the music from this:

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-16 09:10:16 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well.


It's completely legal to detain someone who is actively committing a crime against you.

I guess he could face charges for threatening a child with a hammer, if there is any evidence that actually occurred.  But not kidnapping.  That's silly.


Yeah, like I said--kidnapping or false imprisonment would never stick.  The more I think about it, the more it seems the cops did this guy a favor by bringing endangerment charges.  After those have been dismissed, the parents really don't have much choice other than paying the damages, or face a civil suit with an even higher price tag (mental anguish, loss of time, loss of wages, etc.)  Kid's won't be felony-beefed up either.  Community service, counseling, juvi probation, house arrest, etc.
 
2013-06-16 09:11:05 PM
Kids, that is.
 
2013-06-16 09:15:30 PM
I would hope the press follows up on this story - I want to see what happens to those kids & the guy
 
2013-06-16 09:21:24 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

 
2013-06-16 09:55:35 PM
I wonder how Snowflake Parents would react if he'd held the children at shotgun point until the police arrived.

Totally legal.
 
2013-06-16 10:08:06 PM

Infernalist: hoihoi8: Infernalist: mrschwen: Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.

An insanity plea wouldn't work.

I really wouldn't care.  Fathers will do hard time and willingly so if you fark with their kids.  Someone without the legal authority locks my kids up?  He's going to get the asskicking of his life and if he looks even slightly like he's going to resist, I'll just shoot him dead.

Do not fark with a father's kids.

Don't raise shiaty kids and I won't fark with them. You sound like an overprotective helicopter parent. My dad would have thanked the dude and whoooped our ass on top of a minimum 1 year grounding.

I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not.  Don't fark with a father's kids.  You just don't do it.  You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.


Now farkied as "Serious moron helicopter parent farktard". In red 3.
 
2013-06-16 10:13:38 PM
I don't Get the legal system in the US,  any other country in the world they owners of the Generic malfunction
might just be told to clear up his act before even starting wasting time and public money defending his universal rights to be a bad Dad.

IN my book they lucky one of the kids did not end up getting uses for filling in the coming repairs why even call the police
save the world and just hammer them
 
2013-06-16 10:16:09 PM

GreenSun: Really deserves the stupid tag. The police should have arrested the vandals instead and not the victim.


If only there were some kind of article that you could have read with details.
You know, about who was arrested, why, and what they were charged with.

If only these headlines actually linked somewhere.
oh well, back to reading horoscopes
 
2013-06-16 10:20:00 PM
There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.
 
2013-06-16 10:25:10 PM

downstairs: OtherLittleGuy: If the kids were part of a spree of break-ins, yup, they would have gotten the CSI kits out.

CSB: my aunt had her house broken in, cops were looking for the kids, found a nice fingerprint on the window sill, called up the database, bingo. Found the perps, her stuff, and other people stuff.

Wow.  No idea where your aunt lives, but lucky for her.  Down here, property crimes are laughed off.  I had a bike stolen, called the cops.  I was new to the city, didn't know how things worked.  And I new what direction they went in, just minutes earlier.  The cop just laughed at me and said "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas."  Cop left shaking his head.

It was all good, I was out at $90 bike.  But it was a somewhat funny wake up call on how crap goes down in the city- after living in the 'burbs for 30 years.


And that's when you say "But officer, here's the serial numbers. He can bullshiat all he wants about how his friend gave it to him and it was a present."
 
2013-06-16 10:27:53 PM

PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.


Did you look at the pictures? Hardly petty. They ruined the house. Not to mention that they entered this house armed. No I wouldn't want them beaten or killed, but let's not pretend they're kids being kids. They're felons. And they're damned lucky a few minutes in a closet is all he did to them.
 
2013-06-16 10:30:32 PM

PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.


It stops being petty when the amount is over $2,000.
 
2013-06-16 10:33:02 PM

Infernalist: WorldCitizen: Infernalist: .

I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not.  Don't fark with a father's kids.  You just don't do it.  You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.

I'm just glad my dad's not like you. I'm sure I'm a better person for it.

I don't really give a shiat, but thanks for offering up your completely irrelevant opinion.

Personally, I think if you're okay with a stranger locking your kids up in a closet, you're a shiatty father and person in general.

But hey, you go ahead and hate my approach to kids and I'll hate your approach to kids and we'll happily scorn each other.

But, either way, don't farking touch my kids.


Looks like we found the proud parent of the kids from the article.
 
2013-06-16 10:42:55 PM

quickdraw: citizens arrest?


That's what I was thinking too.

I don't know about New York law, but in Kentucky an average citizen can make a citizens arrest if they catch somebody in the act of committing a felony, but they have to immediately contact police to hand them over to them and let them handle it (also, a citizen's arrest is strict liability about false arrest, so if it turns out not to be a felony then you're in a heap of trouble, even if you thought it was that at the time, while a peace officer doesn't have to worry about that as long as they had probable cause to believe it was a felony).

You call 911 the moment you realize you're being robbed, you find the robbers, you detain them, the police show up, they take the robbers away.

Then again, this is New York, and while Lord Bloomberg only directly rules part of it, he tries hard to get the entire place turned into the Nanny State.

Also, yet another Opposing Views link?  That site is trolleriffic with the derp in general.  I'd trust a link coming from reputable media instead of a "your blog sucks" place like that, which basically passes off blog entries as news.
 
2013-06-16 10:49:34 PM

PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.


petty?
petty is breaking a window
10-50k in damages is a felony

you dont think this is their first offense do you?
you can bet your life that it wont be their last.

/it is always funny when we read about ... two brothers planting bombs for example, and we wonder, how did that happen? how did they get from little babies in a crib to killing people? My guess is that there are steps along the way. nova did a GREAT episode on that recently
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/mind-rampage-killer.html
 
2013-06-16 10:53:11 PM

Silverstaff: I don't know about New York law, but in Kentucky an average citizen can make a citizens arrest if they catch somebody in the act of committing a felony, but they have to immediately contact police to hand them over to them


This is legal in every state.
It used to be (might still be in some places) against the law to NOT capture people you saw committing a felony (misprision).
Things get wonky if you use deadly force.
Things get REALLY ugly if the person you arrest did not actually commit a crime.
 
2013-06-16 10:54:25 PM

Infernalist: Maul555: Infernalist: Speaking as a father, if my kids did something this farking retarded, I'd still kick the living shiat out of any guy who locks em in a closet.

And then I'd beat them within an inch of their lives.

It's all about priorities.  You're not a cop, you're not a judge, you don't get to lock my kids up.

Then keep your kids off my property.   And if you ever did try to follow through with the 2nd part of your brilliant plan, you would rightfully be shot dead in the doorway.

Nah, I'd just bring a gun with me and shoot you first.  Plead temporary insanity.  Don't fark with my kids.


But the second part of your plan, the one I believe Maui meant would get you rightfully shot, was beating your kids within an inch of their lives, not going after whoever locked them up.
 
2013-06-16 10:58:51 PM

PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.


Actually, these were not petty crimes if felony charges followed. If they were petty it would have been a misdemeanor.
 
2013-06-16 11:03:26 PM

advres: Arthur Jumbles:
Really... its sounds like the father pressured the police to file the child endangerment charges so he'd have some leverage against the homeowner. I doubt there's anything that can be done about the charges against the kids but I bet he's hoping that the thousands of dollars in civil charges can be put on the table if he drops the child endangerment charges.

You can't press charges for child endangerment brainiac.  The father could pressure the state to file charges but the civil suit has zero to do with the criminal suit and the stupid kids father has zero say in how that goes.  You can't "drop" a state brought child endangerment charge to mitigate civil suit fines.


But they could file a civil suit for the ongoing emotional and psychological distress and trauma their innocent little angels are experiencing due to being forcibly restrained and incarcerated. I am thinking that the drawing that one of the kids made was done at the parents' behest to add credibility to such a claim.
 
2013-06-16 11:13:34 PM
Good
 
2013-06-16 11:20:17 PM

downstairs: AndreMA: downstairs: "They're just going to say they got the bike for Christmas." Cop left shaking his head.

Cop is morally but not legally an accessory after the fact. Bear that in mind if you ever encountering him bleeding to death at the roadside.

Eh, not going there.  Our cops are doing the best they can.  Kinda have their hands full with all the murder and the like.


Maybe if they didn't let little crimes (like, say, stealing a bike?) be profitable for the criminals, people would , I dunno, learn to not be criminals?
 
2013-06-16 11:44:30 PM
Citizens arrest is related to rights under common law unless there is statute law that says otherwise.

The ancient conditions of common law citizen arrest was that it could be used to prevent additional property damage. i.e. if the person had not been stopped, it would be clear that felony damage would have continued.

The fact they were young is another issue.  Around here the kids are learning to say "I'm only 13" which means the police can't even detain them for criminal acts even when the kids look 17.  However they can be taken into custody for a psych eval.

My grandfather cautioned my uncles, "any man in this town who has a belt can and will beat you for doing anything wrong and will do it with by blessing"
 
2013-06-16 11:46:42 PM

Mrbogey: thamike: I have no idea what you're talking about.

You said something that was wrong. It was pointed out by numerous people. "Bruising" to your ego most likely occurred. Ergo under your loose definition of things, you were the victim of an assault.


You mean battery...
 
2013-06-17 12:05:11 AM

namegoeshere: PlasticMoby: There sure are an awful lot of "tough guys" here willing to assault or murder children over petty vandalism. "Welcome to Fark",I guess.

Did you look at the pictures? Hardly petty. They ruined the house. Not to mention that they entered this house armed. No I wouldn't want them beaten or killed, but let's not pretend they're kids being kids. They're felons. And they're damned lucky a few minutes in a closet is all he did to them.


Seriously. In light of the damage and other evidence, if he'd gone there with a firearm to investigate a burglary, shot them all dead, and then claimed self-defense against hammer-wielding felons, most sane jurors would acquit if it ever made it to trial.

The kids are lucky to be alive.
 
2013-06-17 12:08:05 AM

fredklein: Maybe if they didn't let little crimes (like, say, stealing a bike?) be profitable for the criminals, people would , I dunno, learn to not be criminals?


Precisely. The same "broken window" theory that police and politicians are so eager to embrace when seeking budget increases.

But in this case, with these particular punks, it's a potentially valid deterrent.
 
2013-06-17 02:01:13 AM

Infernalist: I don't give a shiat if they're mini-dahmers, if you touch my kids, you'll be spitting up teeth if you're lucky or in a hole in the ground if you're not. Don't fark with a father's kids. You just don't do it. You 'will' end up dead if you fark with the wrong guy's kids.


If you actually behave this way in real life, what will happen instead is that you will end up in bankruptcy court after the inevitable civil judgment comes down.  If you're really lucky, these two courts will be in the same building, so you won't even need to offer blow jobs at the bus station for cab fare.  Your life will still be pretty much over either way.  Maybe your kids will support you in your old age, but I doubt it.
 
2013-06-17 03:18:31 AM

Krymson Tyde: Isn't that called kidnapping?


No, it's called citizens' arrest.
 
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