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(Opposing Views)   Is this man facing two years in jail for a.) theft, b.) assault or c.) locking up kids who were vandalizing his home in a closet until police could arrive?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 264
    More: Stupid, vandals, jail  
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7426 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2013 at 3:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-16 09:19:10 AM
That's why you use a baseball sized paintball with bank robber dye in it. Let the little bastards try to run away when they're covered in bright orange paint that doesn't wash off.
 
2013-06-16 09:24:10 AM
Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.
 
2013-06-16 09:35:46 AM
Should have shot the little bastards.
 
2013-06-16 09:36:01 AM
If I were the parents of those kids I would be WAY too embarrassed at my bad parenting to bring additional attention to it by trying to have arrested the person who stopped my kids from continuing their destruction. I guess some people have no shame.
 
2013-06-16 10:03:51 AM
farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2013-06-16 10:21:30 AM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


First thing I thought, and I am sleepy
 
2013-06-16 10:25:24 AM
Isn't that called kidnapping?
 
2013-06-16 11:19:31 AM
Around here, there's not a jury that would convict him.

/and the parents would be thankful the kids were not shot.
 
2013-06-16 11:43:54 AM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Yeah, if you walked in your bathroom and saw this you might disagree:
www.13wham.com
 
2013-06-16 12:11:44 PM

Walker: Yeah, if you walked in your bathroom and saw this you might disagree:


While it would really piss me off, but I really doubt I would threaten 8-10 year old kids with a hammer over it; the parents maybe, the kids no.
 
2013-06-16 12:13:39 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.
 
2013-06-16 12:24:42 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Self-defense.... four pre-teens, three armed with hammers all of whom are acting in a dangerous manner... if he keeps his mouth shut and lets his lawyer deal with the situation he'll get off.
 
2013-06-16 12:26:34 PM
citizens arrest?
 
2013-06-16 12:26:58 PM
Aarontology

Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

You are permitted to act within a reasonable way to defend yourself, your family and property. IMO, he showed great restraint. Schools have treated kids like them much more harshly for wearing banned clothing or even drawing a picture of a gun.

Since they had hammers, technically they had weapons. Would it have made a difference if they had guns? How about the fact they trespassed, broke and entered and committed malicious destruction of property? Also the simple fact that these innocent angels came up with the plan to break into a neighborhood home to wreck as much mayhem on it as possible and carried it out?

What was he supposed to do, stand there and let them run away? Maybe he didn't know where they lived. Then, the cops and he would have to spend days tracking them down.

He called the cops. He put them in a closet. He did not tie them up nor physically harm them. Personally, seeing that much damage done to a parents home by the little f**ks might have driven me to physical violence.

Stupidity like this caused great confusion and a real mess in the 70's when criminals started suing their victims who defended themselves or who physically chased them down and caught them. (Store personnel especially.) Eventually, that would lead to the creation of 'zero tolerance' laws that has packed our jails and prisons.

Had I done something like that as a kid, my folks would have torn my arse up! The heck with looking for a stupid excuse to file charges against the person who caught me.

That's like this stupid shiat with squatters. You go away on vacation and come home to find people living in your house, messing with your things. You can't go in there with a baseball bat and chase them out because they have 'rights'.

Funny, with all of these 'rights' available, the US has one of the highest populations in prisons in the world. We are also the most litigious nation on the planet.

The man did right. He prevented the 'armed' vandals from escaping without violence and turned them over to the cops. Now, he and his dad will have to go through the lengthy and expensive process of repairing the damage done to the house and probably have to sue the parents to be reimbursed for the expense.

Not to mention the emotional trauma of having one's sanctity of home violated.

I got robbed once in my own apartment. I stuck the very sharp tip of my switchblade under the chin of the thief and very nearly pushed it up into his nasal cavity. Even though he fled, was caught and arrested, I never did recover the money he stole.

Technically, I could have been arrested -- for using an illegal weapon when he had none -- but he was younger and stronger than I and could have done more harm to me if I had simply fought him.

The cops wisely ignored my use of the knife. The thief complained about it when arrested, but the judge figured he was lucky I hadn't sliced him up.

Another time, working in a department store, I had to watch a thief run off with a couple of hundred bucks worth of goods because I was NOT allowed to chase him beyond the store doors due to the possibility of him suing the store if I handled him roughly in the parking lot. (I didn't consider bouncing his head off a car or two as being 'roughly treated).

The Division of Youth Services needs to pay a visit to the parents of those kids.
 
2013-06-16 12:28:48 PM
So is a citizen's arrest something that only exists in movies and TV shows?  If he hadn't of corralled them what are the chances the police would have spent much manpower investigating and tracking down suspected property vandals?
 
2013-06-16 12:41:43 PM

TuteTibiImperes: So is a citizen's arrest something that only exists in movies and TV shows?


Yes, it is.
 
2013-06-16 12:41:53 PM
One of the parents looks like a real piece of work, apples falling from trees.... video
 
2013-06-16 12:51:15 PM

quickdraw: citizens arrest?


i232.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-16 12:52:35 PM
The man who detained the kids did nothing wrong. Nothing. The father should be charged for child neglect.
 
2013-06-16 12:57:52 PM
CPS should open a case on the children's parents.
 
2013-06-16 01:07:11 PM
Clyde Village Police returned the children to their parents, who live just down the street, and filed felony criminal charges of 2nd degree burglary and 2nd degree criminal mischief.

Fair trade.
 
2013-06-16 01:16:59 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.



Kidnapping?  He called the cops.
 
2013-06-16 01:25:19 PM

The_Sponge: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Kidnapping?  He called the cops.


The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.
 
2013-06-16 01:27:51 PM

quickdraw: citizens arrest?


This was my thought.

The father quoted should be shamed out of the county.  All that damage plus graffiti defaming women?  At ages 8-10?  Way to raise some budding career criminals.  We'll be seeing him on the news in ten years "well, he got into a little trouble  when he was younger."
 
2013-06-16 01:28:26 PM
Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.
 
2013-06-16 01:29:08 PM

thamike: The_Sponge: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Kidnapping?  He called the cops.

The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.



It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.
 
2013-06-16 01:30:04 PM

The_Sponge: Ugh....I can't believe you guys are blaming the property owner.

Hopefully you'll think differently if some little shiats ever vandalize your property.


I'm blaming the kids, and giving you legal trivia.
 
2013-06-16 01:31:57 PM
Generally, kidnapping occurs when a person, without lawful authority, physically asports (i.e., moves) another person without that other person's consent, with the intent to use the abduction in connection with some other nefarious objective. Under the and held for certain purposes. These purposes include gaining a ransom or reward; facilitating the commission of a felony or a flight after the commission of a felony; terrorizing or inflicting bodily injury on the victim or a third person; and interfering with a governmental or political function (Model Penal Code § 212.1).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/kidnapping


It wasn't kidnapping!
 
2013-06-16 01:32:12 PM

The_Sponge: It's not kidnapping.....it's detaining them until the police arrive.


Legally, it could be kidnapping, more likely false imprisonment.  Obviously, it would have been a bullsh*t charge that wouldn't have gone anywhere, hence the lack of aforementioned charges.
 
2013-06-16 01:35:36 PM

The_Sponge: It wasn't kidnapping!


"Officer, where did you find my kid?"

"He was being held against his will with a bunch of other kids in a closet in a vacant house, by this very irate man."

It wasn't kidnapping, but kidnapping charges could have been leveled had cooler heads not prevailed.
 
2013-06-16 01:46:31 PM

thamike: The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.


No. Just no.

Words mean things.

Now just because your ego was bruised by pointing this out don't go screaming that you were assaulted.
 
2013-06-16 01:48:32 PM

Mrbogey: thamike: The kidnapping had already happened when he called the cops.

No. Just no.

Words mean things.

Now just because your ego was bruised by pointing this out don't go screaming that you were assaulted.


I have no idea what you're talking about.
 
2013-06-16 01:50:46 PM

Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.


Citizen's arrest?
Stand your ground?
Self defense?

If he had shot and killed them in self-defense, he would probably be ok now.
 
2013-06-16 01:53:28 PM
Common Law[edit]
Most states have codified the common law rule that a warrantless arrest may be made by a private person for a felony, misdemeanor or "breach of peace."[42] A breach of peace covers a multitude of violations in which the Supreme Court has even included a misdemeanor seatbelt violation punishable only by a fine. The term historically included theft, "nightwalking," prostitution and playing card and dice games.[43]

so yah
instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit. those charges will be dropped and he will sure and win for wrongful arrest.

turns out, the home owner committed no crime and arrested 4 felons in the act.
TADA

the cops were being pressured by butthurt parents over their little snowflakes being arrested.
(would bet money on this)
 
2013-06-16 01:54:16 PM

namatad: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

Citizen's arrest?
Stand your ground?
Self defense?

If he had shot and killed them in self-defense, he would probably be ok now.


I doubt it.
 
2013-06-16 01:56:08 PM

thamike: I have no idea what you're talking about.


You said something that was wrong. It was pointed out by numerous people. "Bruising" to your ego most likely occurred. Ergo under your loose definition of things, you were the victim of an assault.
 
2013-06-16 01:56:21 PM

namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.


He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?
 
2013-06-16 01:57:10 PM

Mrbogey: thamike: I have no idea what you're talking about.

You said something that was wrong. It was pointed out by numerous people. "Bruising" to your ego most likely occurred. Ergo under your loose definition of things, you were the victim of an assault.


Ok.
 
2013-06-16 01:57:40 PM

The_Sponge: Bathia_Mapes: Aarontology: Someone else breaking the law doesn't mean you can break other laws.

THIS

And he's damned lucky they didn't slap four charges of kidnapping on him as well. I fully understand his anger and why he did what he did, but you cannot take the law into your own hands without consequences.


Kidnapping?  He called the cops.



He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.
 
2013-06-16 01:58:40 PM

thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?


Meh, he didn't endanger those kids, they endangered themselves.
 
2013-06-16 01:59:43 PM

Bathia_Mapes: You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.


Actually, it does matter.  That's why he's charged with endangering children.  Kidnapping would never stick in court, and if these were adults armed with hammers, his trapping them in a closet would have never been questioned.
 
2013-06-16 02:00:45 PM
Kidnapping?  Really.

/not a jury that would convict on that
//if I was on the jury, I'd laugh the prosecutor out of the courtroom
///another reason I'll never be selected
 
2013-06-16 02:01:10 PM

basemetal: thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?

Meh, he didn't endanger those kids, they endangered themselves.


Obviously, but I'm not the one accusing the guy, the police are.
 
2013-06-16 02:01:16 PM

namatad: If he had shot and killed them in self-defense, he would probably be ok now.


Really?

I seriously doubt that.
 
2013-06-16 02:01:54 PM

thamike: basemetal: thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?

Meh, he didn't endanger those kids, they endangered themselves.

Obviously, but I'm not the one accusing the guy, the police are.


And they'll drop the charges, watch and see.
 
2013-06-16 02:02:55 PM

basemetal: thamike: basemetal: thamike: namatad: instead, he was illegally arrest for a crime which he didnt commit.

He was charged with endangering a child, not with false imprisonment.  The kids were charged with multiple felonies.

Anybody else here care to admit that they really don't give a sh*t about the people involved in this story?

Meh, he didn't endanger those kids, they endangered themselves.

Obviously, but I'm not the one accusing the guy, the police are.

And they'll drop the charges, watch and see.


I'm almost positive they will.
 
2013-06-16 02:07:11 PM

Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.


I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.
 
2013-06-16 02:16:58 PM

thamike: Bathia_Mapes: You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

Actually, it does matter.  That's why he's charged with endangering children.  Kidnapping would never stick in court, and if these were adults armed with hammers, his trapping them in a closet would have never been questioned.


Really... its sounds like the father pressured the police to file the child endangerment charges so he'd have some leverage against the homeowner. I doubt there's anything that can be done about the charges against the kids but I bet he's hoping that the thousands of dollars in civil charges can be put on the table if he drops the child endangerment charges.
 
2013-06-16 02:17:23 PM

Mrbogey: Bathia_Mapes: He forced the children into a closet and kept them there until the police showed up. In many states that's considered kidnapping, or false imprisonment at the very least. You cannot legally do what this man did and it doesn't matter whether it involved children or adults.

I hope that's not true because if it is then society is doomed. How can you not not allow people to detain a criminal until police arrive? That's an awfully British way to defend criminality.

You know if the kids fled they'd deny involvement and then there's essentially a property crime with no firm evidence other than one eyewitness making a claim.


Looking at the photos of how they left the place I'd say there's likely a lot of physical evidence. You know, stuff like fingerprints on the cabinets, paint cans & hammers, possible shoe prints on the spilled paint used while vandalizing the place, etc. At the very least that would prove that the kids were in the house. And I doubt they could convince the police that they were allowed to be there.
 
2013-06-16 02:17:24 PM
The kids had hammers, too.  He could have made it look like they killed each other.
 
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