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(Salon)   America has become a three-fold dystopia of Matrix, Orwellian, and Huxleyan ideals, claims columnist who clearly has never been to a true dystopia, like Turkey, the Sudan, Florida, or Iran   (salon.com) divider line 116
    More: Dumbass, President Dwight Eisenhower, Orwellian, Iran, Turkey, florida, Henry Ford, Cold War, French philosopher  
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2878 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2013 at 2:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-16 01:05:11 PM
There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.
 
2013-06-16 01:23:15 PM
Matrix, Orwellian, and Huxleyan ideals

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-06-16 02:15:07 PM
Headline win.
 
2013-06-16 02:16:23 PM

hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.


Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.
 
2013-06-16 02:17:56 PM
Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?
 
2013-06-16 02:20:21 PM
Subby's wrong: I found nothing to refute in the article.  Just because a regime isn't shooting and labor camping people left and right doesn't mean people are free.  How about being able to protest without being arrested?  How about laws in ordinary peoples' favor instead of against?
 
2013-06-16 02:21:05 PM
Subby, Please look up the word "dystopia".
 
2013-06-16 02:22:09 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.


It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.
 
2013-06-16 02:26:08 PM

Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?


Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.
 
2013-06-16 02:27:10 PM
1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a extra religious government and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.
 
2013-06-16 02:31:22 PM
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Goethe
 
2013-06-16 02:32:25 PM

stryed: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Goethe


"Is this thing on?" Lenny Bruce
 
2013-06-16 02:36:29 PM
Subby's headline embodies some sort of logical fallacy that I'm too lazy to track down the name of.

It is similar to an alcoholic who points to homeless winos to show that he doesn't have a real alcohol problem.
 
2013-06-16 02:37:00 PM
FTA : the pharmaceutically cushioned, caste-divided and slogan-nourished Dr. Phil superstate

I kind of like that line.

The rest is the hand wringing of someone not preoccupied with day to day survival.

stryed: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Goethe


So long as there's a state, there's limited freedom. It's a small price to pay to avoid anarchy.
 
2013-06-16 02:37:30 PM
is the the thread for folks who live in nannystates pile on about how horrid america is?
 
2013-06-16 02:38:03 PM

xria: /by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.


Actually, I asked the original question precisely because I was once reprimanded by a Ukrainian dude for saying "the" Ukraine. But it's nice to know that's more than just some nationalistic spiel.
 
2013-06-16 02:39:18 PM
Florida?  Fark you, Smits.  Hope you get to spend a lifetime in NYC or California.
 
2013-06-16 02:39:53 PM
So now Turkey is a "true dystopia"? Just because some protesters get roughed up does not make some place a dystopia... that kind of stuff happens pretty much everywhere.
 
2013-06-16 02:40:37 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.

Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.


Well you're supposed to transport sodium on the ground and it was transported in the air. An unfortunate mix up but living in remote Alaska, he should have known better.
 
2013-06-16 02:40:43 PM
I wonder what Matrix ideals are
 
2013-06-16 02:41:12 PM
Florida is truly a hell hole. Stay away. Stay far away.
 
2013-06-16 02:41:37 PM

TomD9938: FTA : the pharmaceutically cushioned, caste-divided and slogan-nourished Dr. Phil superstate

I kind of like that line.

The rest is the hand wringing of someone not preoccupied with day to day survival.

stryed: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Goethe

So long as there's a state, there's limited freedom. It's a small price to pay to avoid anarchy.


This quote fits the recent NSA business a tad better:
"People who think they're free in this world just haven't come to the end of their leash yet." M.Parenti
 
2013-06-16 02:41:46 PM

StrikitRich: Florida?  Fark you, Smits.  Hope you get to spend a lifetime in NYC or California.


Hope you get to visit either some day.  Though, you should probably pick a specific destination for California, as it is an entire state, not a city.  A guy with your kind of mind should try Baker.

/not smits
 
2013-06-16 02:41:57 PM

hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.


From someone who lived under one of those regimes:

What struck me after living in the US for a while, was the similarity, at a very fundamental level, between the US and Soviet systems: while the means by which they attain their objectives differ, the objectives themselves are, for all practical purposes, the same: control and exploitation of the public. Both systems indoctrinate with propaganda from childhood. But because the Soviet system had coercion at its disposal, the propaganda did not need to be convincing: if you stepped out of line, the government came hard after you. That's why propaganda could be blatant and absurd, and the public was fully aware of it and did not believe it, only pretended to. That is also one reason why the Soviet system collapsed.

The US system cannot use coercion (well, not at the Soviet level, at any rate, but the way things are going, give it time), so it must rely solely on propaganda, which must be believed. This means it's got to be very subtle and psychologically simple and attractive, rather than blatant and absurd, to be at once unobtrusive and effective. It's no coincidence that the mother of marketing and advertising originates here. If you step out of line, the government does not need to come after you: business, the media, and even the public itself will. They cannot jail, torture, or disappear you (the system is testing the waters, though), but they will try to marginalize you, and make it very difficult to function professionally and socially. And at least insofar as members of the public are concerned, they are enforcers without realizing it. Quite elegant.
Otherwise put, under Soviet "communism", everybody must believe without questioning in the party, which almost nobody did; under US "capitalism", everybody must believe without questioning in "the market", which almost everybody does (I use quotes, because neither system is the true thing, as they pretend).

--Fabian Pascal.
 
2013-06-16 02:42:06 PM

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.

It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.


Reading both articles, I still don't see how the guy deserved 13 months in jail for such a minor infraction. A strongly worded letter from the EPA probably would have sufficed.
 
2013-06-16 02:42:07 PM
Can we introduce maybe a fourth or fifth dystopian novel into college lit curriculum so that all these writers don't sound like such asses trying to sound so smart?
 
2013-06-16 02:42:32 PM
While I haven't read Orwell, I think Subby has no clue what he is talking about.  Brave New World was in a very advanced society, but not a free one, and the Matrix was about people who were ignorant of what was going on around them.

This also leads me to question the mods here at Fark.  Really, you guys greenlit this one?
 
2013-06-16 02:42:50 PM

leonel: Well you're supposed to transport sodium on the ground and it was transported in the air. An unfortunate mix up but living in remote Alaska, he should have known better.


Not that it matters.  As I linked, the Foundry story is bullsh*t.
 
2013-06-16 02:44:59 PM

Frank N Stein: Reading both articles, I still don't see how the guy deserved 13 months in jail for such a minor infraction. A strongly worded letter from the EPA probably would have sufficed.


Perhaps.  I'm not aware of the implications enough to find the sentence fair or not.  If you notice the EPA link, it looks like he got a light sentence compared to what he was looking at.
 
2013-06-16 02:46:12 PM

sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a extra religious government and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.


The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.
 
2013-06-16 02:47:34 PM

Seth'n'Spectrum: xria: /by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

Actually, I asked the original question precisely because I was once reprimanded by a Ukrainian dude for saying "the" Ukraine. But it's nice to know that's more than just some nationalistic spiel.


I think they use the word "the" because it's the name of the region, not just the country's name.
 
2013-06-16 02:48:26 PM
The worst part is, it's a dot Matrix dystopia, we can't even afford to upgrade to inkjet.
 
2013-06-16 02:51:11 PM

hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.




Exactly! No one should ever critique the Homeland.
 
2013-06-16 02:51:23 PM

leevis: sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a by secretly negotiating with the  extra extremist religious government as a candidate and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.

The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.


Better?
 
2013-06-16 02:53:22 PM

SDRR: Florida is truly a hell hole. Stay away. Stay far away.




Exactly, lease, stay the fark away. You asshole ruined it enough.

/first house was 60k
 
2013-06-16 02:55:02 PM
sales of one recent edition of Orwell's "1984" had spiked by almost 7,000 percent on Amazon.


Obama is doing for book sales what he did for gun and ammo sales.
 
2013-06-16 02:55:26 PM
If I could only write half as elegantly my work would be quite the chick magnet.

If only there were a market value for magnetized chicks.
 
2013-06-16 02:58:24 PM

BokChoy: So now Turkey is a "true dystopia"? Just because some protesters get roughed up does not make some place a dystopia... that kind of stuff happens pretty much everywhere.


You've never been in a Turkish prison.
 
2013-06-16 02:58:53 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Exactly! No one should ever critique the Homeland.


That's powerful retardry at work there.
 
2013-06-16 03:00:39 PM

StoPPeRmobile: hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.

Exactly! No one should ever critique the Homeland.


I'm more troubled by the concept of good as it pertains to cock punches.
 
2013-06-16 03:02:19 PM

xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.


This.

/Ukrainian!
 
2013-06-16 03:05:04 PM

megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!


Is it still ok to call it The United States?  How about The Ohio State University?
 
2013-06-16 03:06:43 PM

Senseless_drivel: leevis: sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a by secretly negotiating with the  extra extremist religious government as a candidate and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.

The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.

Better?


No. The Shah left in January of 1979, which works out to 22 months before the 1980 election. The Shah left a full year before the Iowa Caucus FFS. The demonstrations against the Shah started in 1977.

As evil as Regan may have been, he wasn't working on an Iranian revolution three years out from the election.
 
2013-06-16 03:08:08 PM
I used to date a girl named Huxley. She was hot, brilliant, and ten years younger than me. And liked to party. Almost killed me.

But it was fun.
 
2013-06-16 03:10:29 PM
In fairness, this seems more and more apropos every damn day...

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-06-16 03:15:50 PM

buzzcut73: Senseless_drivel: leevis: sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a by secretly negotiating with the  extra extremist religious government as a candidate and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.

The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.

Better?

No. The Shah left in January of 1979, which works out to 22 months before the 1980 election. The Shah left a full year before the Iowa Caucus FFS. The demonstrations against the Shah started in 1977.

As evil as Regan may have been, he wasn't working on an Iranian revolution three years out from the election.


I think he was referring to the hostage crisis and the October Surprise conspiracy theory.
 
2013-06-16 03:16:02 PM

buzzcut73: Senseless_drivel: leevis: sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a by secretly negotiating with the  extra extremist religious government as a candidate and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.

The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.

Better?

No. The Shah left in January of 1979, which works out to 22 months before the 1980 election. The Shah left a full year before the Iowa Caucus FFS. The demonstrations against the Shah started in 1977.

As evil as Regan may have been, he wasn't working on an Iranian revolution three years out from the election.


Are you talking Donald or Ronald?

In any case my correction of the original post was that Reagan didn't have anything to do with putting the Ayatollah in power but feel free to knock yourself out.
 
2013-06-16 03:21:50 PM

hubiestubert: In fairness, this seems more and more apropos every damn day...

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x640]


Yeah, but the government can't track you into Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong.
 
2013-06-16 03:22:29 PM
cdn.madamenoire.com
Huxtableian?
 
2013-06-16 03:24:00 PM
From 1984 (and delivered brilliantly in the film by Richard Burton in his last role) :

All the confessions that are uttered here are true. We make them true. And above all we do not allow the dead to rise up against us. You must stop imagining that posterity will vindicate you, Winston. Posterity will never hear of you. You will be lifted clean out from the stream of history. We shall turn you into gas and pour you into the stratosphere. Nothing will remain of you, not a name in a register, not a memory in a living brain. You will be annihilated in the past as well as in the future. You will never have existed.'

/ pour you into the stratosphere
 
2013-06-16 03:24:56 PM

rohar: Is it still ok to call it The United States?  How about The Ohio State University?


I have wondered why Europeans go to hospital while we go to the hospital.
 
2013-06-16 03:29:54 PM

Frank N Stein: thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.

It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.

Reading both articles, I still don't see how the guy deserved 13 months in jail for such a minor infraction. A strongly worded letter from the EPA probably would have sufficed.


That's for corporations and people who make substantial campaign contributions. Ordinary folks have to go to Federal PMITA prison.
 
2013-06-16 03:30:12 PM

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.

It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.


Posted on the EPA's website. Because they clearly don't have any vested interest in painting the case in a light favorable to their agency and its actions.
 
2013-06-16 03:33:07 PM

rohar: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

Is it still ok to call it The United States?  How about The Ohio State University?


Heck. I went to The University.
 
2013-06-16 03:37:43 PM
Dystopia isn't the same thing as backwards shiathole.
 
2013-06-16 03:41:33 PM

FunkOut: Dystopia isn't the same thing as backwards shiathole.


You sure about that?

Dystopia

Not seeing a difference in the terms.
 
2013-06-16 03:41:42 PM

megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!


So...you look like a hawt Ukrainian: if you happen to run into Milla Jovovich can you put in a good word for me, and ask her why she won't return any of my calls?

/left her 600 messages
//surely one had to have been received
 
2013-06-16 03:42:35 PM

hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.


He didn't.  The article was much more rational than the headline.
 
2013-06-16 03:44:34 PM
Ever notice that everybody complains about everything except Utopia?
 
2013-06-16 03:46:12 PM
rohar: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

Is it still ok to call it The United States?  How about The Ohio State University?

>> you forgot The Iraq.
 
2013-06-16 03:47:01 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.

It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.

Posted on the EPA's website. Because they clearly don't have any vested interest in painting the case in a light favorable to their agency and its actions.


Did you use that same scrutiny on the website you sourced?
 
2013-06-16 03:47:30 PM

06Wahoo: While I haven't read Orwell, I think Subby has no clue what he is talking about.  Brave New World was in a very advanced society, but not a free one, and the Matrix was about people who were ignorant of what was going on around them.

This also leads me to question the mods here at Fark.  Really, you guys greenlit this one?


Maybe you should RTFA instead of just bashing the obviously over the top headline.
 
2013-06-16 03:51:47 PM

dehehn: 06Wahoo: While I haven't read Orwell, I think Subby has no clue what he is talking about.  Brave New World was in a very advanced society, but not a free one, and the Matrix was about people who were ignorant of what was going on around them.

This also leads me to question the mods here at Fark.  Really, you guys greenlit this one?

Maybe you should RTFA instead of just bashing the obviously over the top headline.


This is Fark, Who would read the article?
 
2013-06-16 03:55:10 PM

dehehn: 06Wahoo: While I haven't read Orwell, I think Subby has no clue what he is talking about.  Brave New World was in a very advanced society, but not a free one, and the Matrix was about people who were ignorant of what was going on around them.

This also leads me to question the mods here at Fark.  Really, you guys greenlit this one?

Maybe you should RTFA instead of just bashing the obviously over the top headline.


Pffft... article? We don't need no stinkin' article.
 
2013-06-16 04:03:00 PM

rohar: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

Is it still ok to call it The United States?  How about The Ohio State University?


The United States? Fantastic!

But no one likes OU. So the "the" is really inconsequential.
 
2013-06-16 04:04:41 PM

Testiclaw: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

So...you look like a hawt Ukrainian: if you happen to run into Milla Jovovich can you put in a good word for me, and ask her why she won't return any of my calls?

/left her 600 messages
//surely one had to have been received


Yeah. Don't worry. I got this. Unless you're the "restraining order guy" she talks about.
 
2013-06-16 04:13:03 PM

megarian: Testiclaw: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

So...you look like a hawt Ukrainian: if you happen to run into Milla Jovovich can you put in a good word for me, and ask her why she won't return any of my calls?

/left her 600 messages
//surely one had to have been received

Yeah. Don't worry. I got this. Unless you're the "restraining order guy" she talks about.


I think Testiclaw is good.  I'm pretty sure I'm the restraining order guy.

BTW, how YOU doin?
 
2013-06-16 04:17:51 PM
^^its like feeding time at the zoo...

/article is depressing...
 
2013-06-16 04:17:51 PM

Bolebuns: Ever notice that everybody complains about everything except Utopia?


I like my Euarchy.
 
2013-06-16 04:19:39 PM

rohar: megarian: Testiclaw: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

So...you look like a hawt Ukrainian: if you happen to run into Milla Jovovich can you put in a good word for me, and ask her why she won't return any of my calls?

/left her 600 messages
//surely one had to have been received

Yeah. Don't worry. I got this. Unless you're the "restraining order guy" she talks about.

I think Testiclaw is good.  I'm pretty sure I'm the restraining order guy.

BTW, how YOU doin?


I'm fantastic! And Ukrainian so ~60% batshiat insane!

Things are lovely when you're mostly crazy.

Cheers!!! (Na zdorov'ya! Well, Budmo!...but whatever).
 
2013-06-16 04:20:36 PM

Frank N Stein: thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.

It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.

Reading both articles, I still don't see how the guy deserved 13 months in jail for such a minor infraction. A strongly worded letter from the EPA probably would have sufficed.


You have to take that stuff seriously because he put lives at risk. If you just slap people on the wrist, you wind up with Alaska Air flights to Seattle going all ValuJet and killing hundreds of people.
 
2013-06-16 04:23:14 PM
Subby - forgotting Detroit again?
 
2013-06-16 04:39:16 PM
Stupid Libs.  America the beacon of freedom became Amerika the Communist Hellhole the minute your beloved perfumed Fartbama took the oath.  North Korea looks like a paradise next to what Barry the Bastard has done.
 
2013-06-16 04:42:51 PM
www.dailycal.org

Pure utopia!
 
2013-06-16 04:43:02 PM
America (indeed the world) is a plutocracy. Our popular fiction likes to pretend that the world world we could live in would be one ruled by a fascist autocrat, but really, the worst way is how it has been for hundreds-- if not thousands-- of years: A small group of wealthy elite who control everything; political elections (or appointments, if you want to be technical), entertainment, religion, consumerism, food, air, water, housing, war, journalism, class warfare, EVERYTHING. It's all orchestrated to keep us busy, entertained, and informed enough to feel informed without being  truly informed.

Cyberpunk novels were closest to the truth. The megacorporations are the true rulers of the world in those, although the real world is a little more concise than that. Instead of it being the corporations, it's the handful of people who control several corporations at once. There are people so powerful, so wealthy, so above law and government that the rest of us-- all 7 billion of us-- seem like busy little ants scurrying around to perform our assigned tasks and freak out when they occasionally and rarely kick the anthill.

The Orwellian ideals are there, of course. We see that in the amount of surveillance we have already accepted in our society. We actually do it FOR them now, and consider it entertainment, because they managed to sell us on the idea of reality programming. They don't need to slip bugs in our homes and telescreens in our living rooms (with the exception of Microsoft, apparently) because we are constantly recording each other and logging in to make ourselves known, and soon we'll have the Google Glassholes walking around performing as voluntary, mobile spy-eyes and data collection drones. They'll scan in people, buildings, and everything else, and a lot of the time the people they're recording won't know they're being scanned and uploaded into Google's data servers.

But the single Big Brother ruler? No. There's a group of them. I don't know how many strong they are, but there are several members of this elite, unspoken class above all classes. Call them Illuminati or whatever. Titles are meaningless at their level, because they defy definition. They decide what deserves to be defined, and what the definition is... whether or not it jibes with reality.

P.K. Dick's Buster Friendly and His Friendly Friends was closer to the truth. No Big Brother; Just silly entertainment full of lies, platitudes, controversies, red herrings, and placebos to keep people enthralled and entertained.

And there is no getting out from under this system. The system IS the system. There's no other system to flee to, and the only way out of participating in the system they've made for us is to die. I don't recommend dying, though. It's not better than the moderately comfortable life we're allowed to live in most modernized nations.

So you go to work, watch your shows, talk about politics, and do all the things you're supposed to do, little worker bees. You do it, and you will keep doing it, because you really have no choice; Even dropping out is part of their world, their plan, their system. Your free will is real; Your choices are illusions.
 
2013-06-16 04:43:58 PM

ZeroCorpse: Our popular fiction likes to pretend that the   worst world we could live in would...


There. FTFM
 
2013-06-16 04:47:40 PM

DupeOfURL: Subby - forgotting Detroit again?


Dear racist. I'm sorry that subby left out your favorite racist talking point that the USA is the greatest country in the world and its scores in all category would be #1 if it weren't for all those farking mud people who bring down the scores. You know like those blacks and Muslims in Detroit.
 
2013-06-16 04:55:51 PM

megarian: Testiclaw: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

So...you look like a hawt Ukrainian: if you happen to run into Milla Jovovich can you put in a good word for me, and ask her why she won't return any of my calls?

/left her 600 messages
//surely one had to have been received

Yeah. Don't worry. I got this. Unless you're the "restraining order guy" she talks about.


That? That was just a misunderstanding!

Plus, she should be apologizing to me for her last Resident Evil movie.

/I still forgive her
 
2013-06-16 04:58:00 PM

hubiestubert: In fairness, this seems more and more apropos every damn day...

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x640]


img.weburbanist.com
cdn0.sbnation.com
secondlife.com

We're getting there.
 
2013-06-16 04:58:33 PM
I wish we were living under a Ghost in the Shell future.
 
2013-06-16 05:00:28 PM

dehehn: hubiestubert: In fairness, this seems more and more apropos every damn day...

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x640]

[img.weburbanist.com image 468x400]
[cdn0.sbnation.com image 640x427]
[secondlife.com image 850x314]

We're getting there.


As someone who loves that book, seeing your pictures next to each other now has me worried.

All things I knew about, but never connected them to one another before.
 
2013-06-16 05:10:54 PM

Mad_Radhu: Frank N Stein: thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.

It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.

Reading both articles, I still don't see how the guy deserved 13 months in jail for such a minor infraction. A strongly worded letter from the EPA probably would have sufficed.

You have to take that stuff seriously because he put lives at risk. If you just slap people on the wrist, you wind up with Alaska Air flights to Seattle going all ValuJet and killing hundreds of people.


Also, ten metric tons of toxic sludge being disposed of improperly is hardly a misunderstanding.
 
2013-06-16 05:14:44 PM

DupeOfURL: Subby - forgotting Detroit again?


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-06-16 05:17:46 PM
ORLY?

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-06-16 05:18:58 PM

leevis: Seth'n'Spectrum: xria: /by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

Actually, I asked the original question precisely because I was once reprimanded by a Ukrainian dude for saying "the" Ukraine. But it's nice to know that's more than just some nationalistic spiel.

I think they use the word "the" because it's the name of the region, not just the country's name.


You misspelled Eastern Europe
/easy mistake to make
 
2013-06-16 05:22:58 PM

wantingout: rohar: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

Is it still ok to call it The United States?  How about The Ohio State University?

>> you forgot The Iraq.


And maps. Don't forget the maps, such as...
 
2013-06-16 05:23:05 PM

ReverendJynxed: [www.dailycal.org image 703x450]

Pure utopia!


www.bernardinai.lt: wow, America is hellhole
 
2013-06-16 05:34:31 PM

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.

It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.

Posted on the EPA's website. Because they clearly don't have any vested interest in painting the case in a light favorable to their agency and its actions.

Did you use that same scrutiny on the website you sourced?


I think it more fair to say that somewhere in between lies the truth.

My primary point being that if you think for one minute that the government is actually on your side, you're being a fool.

The government serves itself, and though ours may be preferable to others, it is still not your friend and can and will screw you over the moment it decides it wants to and will do so on the flimsiest of justifications. There's increasingly damn little you can do to stop it.

But hey, if you want to go all "'MERICA" about it, that's your call. It's not my problem to tell you to watch your back.

/and it seems you have a knee-jerk reaction to the site I referenced, the reason of which I wonder about
//Also, I have no vested interest in whatever political ideology the site might lean towards that you might dislike as i don't affiliate myself with any party
 
2013-06-16 05:43:56 PM

stryed: wantingout: rohar: megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!

Is it still ok to call it The United States?  How about The Ohio State University?

>> you forgot The Iraq.

And maps. Don't forget the maps, such as...


And like.

With the hemispherers. With the north and souths. Such as. With USSR. And the 19-whatever's. like 1977. And such like. 1980! Lol!
 
2013-06-16 05:44:09 PM

ZeroCorpse: And there is no getting out from under this system. The system IS the system. There's no other system to flee to, and the only way out of participating in the system they've made for us is to die. I don't recommend dying, though. It's not better than the moderately comfortable life we're allowed to live in most modernized nations.


I'd just like to remind you that you are speaking of a  social system, which is limited in scope and time. Nature still holds the trump cards, and even outside of that social systems have a limited life. The American empire is clearly in decline now, so at some point it will change quite a bit and probably very quickly in historical terms (I expect it will take about 100 years and then it will be a memory). What will happen after that is up in the air.

Once again, all of these things only exist to the extent you are holding your phone, are on the computer, or are in the built environment (cities and suburbs). Go hiking or diving and you are outside of the sphere of the human system. This will remind you that we are ultimately animals, that feed, aggregate in groups, fight, fark, and die, just like any other animals. We're fast getting rid of or severely damaging those non-human environments, but even when they are gone, we are still just animals in the end.
 
2013-06-16 05:44:30 PM
Finger pointing and saying "well others have it worse" is no argument against the fact that we are sliding towards a 24 hour police state and that per capita the  US locks up more of its citizens than any other country. Eisenhower saw the dangers of the military-industrial complex but I think the slide towards the military-prison-industrial complex would have horrified him, as well as the rise of the chickenhawks endlessly clamoring for war.
 
2013-06-16 05:56:26 PM
 
2013-06-16 05:58:53 PM

adamatari: ZeroCorpse: And there is no getting out from under this system. The system IS the system. There's no other system to flee to, and the only way out of participating in the system they've made for us is to die. I don't recommend dying, though. It's not better than the moderately comfortable life we're allowed to live in most modernized nations.

I'd just like to remind you that you are speaking of a  social system, which is limited in scope and time. Nature still holds the trump cards, and even outside of that social systems have a limited life. The American empire is clearly in decline now, so at some point it will change quite a bit and probably very quickly in historical terms (I expect it will take about 100 years and then it will be a memory). What will happen after that is up in the air.

Once again, all of these things only exist to the extent you are holding your phone, are on the computer, or are in the built environment (cities and suburbs). Go hiking or diving and you are outside of the sphere of the human system. This will remind you that we are ultimately animals, that feed, aggregate in groups, fight, fark, and die, just like any other animals. We're fast getting rid of or severely damaging those non-human environments, but even when they are gone, we are still just animals in the end.


You've clearly missed all the latest talk about having to privatize every inch of the planet in order to protect it. One day there won't be an "outside of the sphere of the human system". At present, we are recognizing that we are part of the biosphere, but in the future, the biosphere will become part of the human sphere.
Imagine drones silently hovering above your hiking trail in order to call for aid if an accident occurs, or to debit your account if you happen to leave your water bottle behind or cause unnecessary sound pollution.
 
2013-06-16 06:15:33 PM
It's more of a free-market panopticon. You can get away with just about anything if no one's watching. But if someone is, lord help you. The elite class is everyone who owns property that they make money off of without doing actual work, aka capitalists. That goes for every level- the big-shot capitalists have the power at the highest level, but your local mom-and-pop capitalists still own the block, and just because they're less successful doesn't mean they're not just as much bastards. They'll still pay minimum wage, short your hours on the payroll, and can your ass if you complain, because they know you can't do anything about it. Your landlord might only own $600k in properties, but he's still keeping your security deposit because fark you. The cops and politicians serve them just as much as they serve Wal-Mart and Monsanto and so on.


TomD9938
It's a small price to pay to avoid anarchy.

You say that like it would be a bad thing.
 
2013-06-16 06:22:37 PM
stryed:You've clearly missed all the latest talk about having to privatize every inch of the planet in order to protect it. One day there won't be an "outside of the sphere of the human system". At present, we are recognizing that we are part of the biosphere, but in the future, the biosphere will become part of the human sphere.
Imagine drones silently hovering above your hiking trail in order to call for aid if an accident occurs, or to debit your account if you happen to leave your water bottle behind or cause unnecessary sound pollution.


No, you've missed my point. Humans don't OWN anything. Nature holds trumps. We have fancy tech, yes, but we have to be around to make and maintain it. Humans, as a species, will one day be extinct just as mammoths and trilobites bit the dust.

If the transhumanists are right and we all become machines, then you will have a point (at that point, I would say we are no longer human). Until then, we're not that different from ants or wolves or fish. We change the environment on a larger scale, but ultimately we still need to eat, shiat, etc. The most relevant part you're missing is that we depend on the environment we are destroying to survive, and depend on energy from finite fossil fuels to fuel our technogadgets. Things change, and human organizations, patterns, ways of life wash away with the tide. Our current "survelliance everywhere" trend is just another trend, one that has been done before on a less techy scale (internal passports in places like Edo Japan and Soviet Russia, informants and Stasi in East Germany, etc.).

The human sphere can ONLY exist within the sphere of nature, because we are animals that must eat living things and breed to survive. Our lifetimes our finite and all the works of man are a blink in time.
 
2013-06-16 06:44:20 PM
There's only been one conspiracy in the entire world; the 1% (more like the 1% of the 1%) who own 99% of everything.  They don't have their power because they stand 500' tall and breathe atomic flames.  They have their power because they pretty much bend all institutions in their favor.  For example, some raving guy like Yeshua might come along and preach an anti-materialistic gospel that basically condemns the rich and powerful to hell but eventually his religion ended up becoming just another tool of the rich--Christianity switched from a religion of the oppressed to a religion of the oppressors around the time of Constantine.

Revolution doesn't seem to work, either, because the new boss ends up being the same as the old boss.  The 3% of Soviets who were in the Communist Party lived a lot better than the other 97%, Comrade Fidel is a millionaire who lives in a mansion, and the People's Republic of China has plenty of billionaire industrialists.  Same old shiat, ad nauseum.

What makes this work is the other half of the conspiracy.  Most of the 99% seem to be content to play along with the system.  You can't cheat an honest man, but most of the 99%ers are too busy trying to sock it to the system to realize they're part of it.  A guy who has to sleep on the sidewalk at night is too busy trying to fark over the poor bastard who has to sleep in the gutter to realize he's getting shafted almost as badly.

But here's the weird part.  About the biggest institution that keeps people down is parenthood.  Show me a guy who's willing to work in a coal mine for a dollar a day, and I'll show you some poor shmuck with a wife and 10 starving kids back at home.  This is why organized religion and the people in power are so relentlessly pro-natalist.  Lately, though, people around the world are waking up to the fact that when they have kids, they're just making another wage slave to work for the Man.

One of the biggest news items that Big Media ignores is the plummeting birth rate around the world--and on the few occasions they report it, it's always from an alarmist position meant to scare people into having more kids.  Seriously, folks, the fertility rate in Mexico and Brazil has dropped to just over 2.5 kids per woman; in most of Europe it's below replacement in places like Germany and Italy; and in Asian countries like South Korea or Singapore, it's down to about 1.3.  It's even plummeting in hard-core Islamic countries like Iran.  Much of that is caused by women's liberation; women with an education are realizing that they can have careers instead of sitting in a grass hut and popping out kids like a human Pez dispenser.  A lot of it has to do with the Internet and seemingly everybody in the third world having a smartphone--when previously-sheltered people realize how extravagantly the ultra-rich live, they're less likely to want to be wage slaves popping out future generations of wage slaves.

Personally, I find this current Peasant Revolt (a/k/a Revenge of the Sheep) to be pretty fascinating.  It's the one thing that's actually going to threaten the 1% because those parasitic bastards need the poor far more than the poor need them.  And institutions like the Catholic Church that pander to the poor but actually serve the 1% are hopefully going to vanish right along with them...
 
2013-06-16 07:15:40 PM
I'd take the author more seriously if his tinfoil hat weren't on so tight.

In many respects American culture, seen from the inside, is more diverse, tolerant and interesting than ever before. Yet the American nation-state seems to be in terminal decline.

Really, now?

It is politically ungovernable, bitterly divided by class, caste, region and ideology.

Compared to say, the US in the 1960s?  Or the 1860s, for that matter?

The executive branch and the "military-industrial complex" have expanded exponentially since Eisenhower's day, accumulating more and more power where it can't be seen. Read carefully through the recent news about the NSA revelations and you can see a few tendrils of this stuff: We know more than we did two weeks ago, but there are still entire government agencies whose names and missions are unknown, and programs so secret that Congress votes to fund them without knowing what they do.

Does anyone think Congressmen of the opposition party are going to be willfully ignorant of "secret" evil plots by the party in power?

On the international stage, America plays a grotesque supervillain role, blundering from nation to nation like Robocop in an endless war that has yielded only hatred and mockery.

Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia, hell Napoleon's France were "grotesque supervillains".  I don't see a grand alliance of nations sacrificing blood and treasure to bring the "US monster" to heel, do you?

Radical Islam has always been our enemy, except when our enemy has always been Communism.

And it can't be both?
 
2013-06-16 07:25:45 PM

Fano: is the the thread for folks who live in nannystates pile on about how horrid america is?


I live in a nanny state but I don't think America is horrid at all. It is easily the most dynamic and interesting place in the world.

But your society has developed a few rough edges over the last 30 years or so mainly due to the successful and ongoing minimization of the role of government in society. The United States no longer appears to want to strive towards its ideals, no longer wants to be a shining light upon the hill.

What happened to this America?

tommiele.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-06-16 08:30:36 PM
Funny; just the other day my friend was complaining about his working conditions in Florida, comparing it to a third world country. My response? Florida *is* a third-world country; what he expect after leaving New York?
 
2013-06-16 08:34:17 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: think it more fair to say that somewhere in between lies the truth.


I think that it's fair to call that statement a stretch to pretend both sources are equally valid.  I don't blame you.  Cable news has pounded that reaction so deep it's almost a reflex.
 
2013-06-16 08:41:42 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: My primary point being that if you think for one minute that the government is actually on your side, you're being a fool.


On the flip side, if you think for one minute that someone who is against the government is on your side, you're in for a surprise.

Then again, you seem to think that anyone who isn't immediately suspicious of everything the government does must live under the delusion that the government is actually on his "side"  at all times.  You can be skeptical about an action's implied interest without dismissing the legitimacy of it outright.  Absolutism is f*cking this country up, just like it does with every other culture that allows that to happen.
 
2013-06-16 08:59:14 PM

thamike: Then again, you seem to think that anyone who isn't immediately suspicious of everything the government does must live under the delusion that the government is actually on his "side"  at all times.  You can be skeptical about an action's implied interest without dismissing the legitimacy of it outright.


[Smart]
 
2013-06-16 09:23:08 PM

CruJones: I used to date a girl named Huxley. She was hot, brilliant, and ten years younger than me. And liked to party. Almost killed me.

But it was fun.


This girl named Schopenhauer once blew me until my whole genital area was a deep plum color.
 
2013-06-16 09:28:10 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: Subby's wrong: I found nothing to refute in the article.  Just because a regime isn't shooting and labor camping people left and right doesn't mean people are free.  How about being able to protest without being arrested?  How about laws in ordinary peoples' favor instead of against?


Maybe "Rollerball" should have been mentioned, that would have gone into the mix very nicely. A world where nations no longer exist and corporations control everything. Fahrenheit 451 also comes to mind.

This was actually a very profound article. The author is right, the US has been on the path to a 1984/Brave New World society for a long time. Especially Brave New World with it's remarkably crass materialism.

As Winston Smith is told by his captor, the reason the Party exists is for power, there is no other end. Sounds alot like the thinking of the majority of clowns in Congress.

You can have a dystopic world without acute poverty or oppression, so just because the US isn't another Sudan yet doesn't mean that the article deserves its Dumbass tag, even if it is from Salon. In 1984 and Brave New World and Rollerball no one is starving, there's all sorts of TV and entertainment for the Proles or the Betas or Gammas. Its the life within that's completely barren, flat, and void, and while I won't say it's worse than watching your kid starve to death, it still sucks profoundly (except that you'd be so souless that you probably won't be conscious of that).  The US and the Western world having been going down the path since 1945, maybe even 1914.

The answer lies within. This historian Arnold J. Toynbee, who admittedly went slightly off the deep end later in life, insisted that the only hope for the West was a return to religion: a blend of Christianity and Buddhism. Fark is a bad place to mention religion, but with the exception of something like Prism, the problem is within, the answers will also lie within. Waking up and realizing that we're on the road to corporate nowhere is a good start.
 
2013-06-16 10:28:16 PM

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: think it more fair to say that somewhere in between lies the truth.

I think that it's fair to call that statement a stretch to pretend both sources are equally valid.  I don't blame you.  Cable news has pounded that reaction so deep it's almost a reflex.


You assume I watch cable news. You assume wrong. I do not have or watch cable. I'm not one of the ubiquitous major news media drones. But nice stab in the dark.

The article I linked was merely something I stumbled upon from other sources. Additionally my point was not that both were 100% valid, but that both probably have elements of actual fact, while both probably also have spin. So in that respect, your understanding of my statement is flawed.

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: My primary point being that if you think for one minute that the government is actually on your side, you're being a fool.

On the flip side, if you think for one minute that someone who is against the government is on your side, you're in for a surprise.

Then again, you seem to think that anyone who isn't immediately suspicious of everything the government does must live under the delusion that the government is actually on his "side"  at all times.  You can be skeptical about an action's implied interest without dismissing the legitimacy of it outright.  Absolutism is f*cking this country up, just like it does with every other culture that allows that to happen.


Outside a very small circle of people, I don't assume anyone is on my side.

And I pick and choose my absolutism, like everybody else.

What amuses me is that you seem to accept your source as the most valid and accurate information and argue from its position while assuming I've done the same. The former is probably wrong, the latter is completely wrong.

/but according to your profile, you're in D.C., and assuming that's true, I find it less surprising that you might defend the establishment
 
2013-06-16 10:50:17 PM
enemy of the state
You can have a dystopic world without acute poverty or oppression, so just because the US isn't another Sudan

The US is part of the same world as Sudan.
The American, European, and East Asian middle class is the Outer Party.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-06-16 10:54:04 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: Subby's wrong: I found nothing to refute in the article.  Just because a regime isn't shooting and labor camping people left and right doesn't mean people are free.  How about being able to protest without being arrested?  How about laws in ordinary peoples' favor instead of against?


Isn't it just awesome how the kind of people who spout off about "American exceptionalism" have turned into, "Well, at least we're not ________".
 
2013-06-16 11:07:36 PM
How is it that subby is allowed to make up words and still get a green?
 
2013-06-16 11:08:07 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: FunkOut: Dystopia isn't the same thing as backwards shiathole.

You sure about that?

Dystopia

Not seeing a difference in the terms.


A dystopia should take some effort, be something special.
 
2013-06-16 11:47:41 PM
kg2095:
But your society has developed a few rough edges over the last 30 years or so mainly due to the successful and ongoing minimization of the role of government in society. The United States no longer appears to want to strive towards its ideals, no longer wants to be a shining light upon the hill.

What happened to this America?


I wish I knew.  One of my saddest realizations over the last decade was that people like Limbaugh seem to think the Bill of Rights ends at our border.  They seem quite certain that the protections of our rights only applies to those fortunate enough to have been born here, that there is nothing wrong with locking people indefinitely if it's not on our soil, or to pay below legal wages to those who are legal citizens.  I thought we were at our best when we appeared to lead by example.  It seemed we won the cold war just as much by being the country that gave the world Coca-Cola, Levi's jeans and Rock and Roll as we did stockpiling missiles. How people can fail to see that we're becoming a dystopia is beyond me.  The difference between a dystopia and a shiathole, BTW, is that most people in a shiathole know they aren't alone in their misery.  In a dystopia everyone else seems happy, there must just be something wrong with you.
 
2013-06-17 12:43:38 AM

kg2095: Fano: is the the thread for folks who live in nannystates pile on about how horrid america is?

I live in a nanny state but I don't think America is horrid at all. It is easily the most dynamic and interesting place in the world.

But your society has developed a few rough edges over the last 30 years or so mainly due to the successful and ongoing minimization of the role of government in society. The United States no longer appears to want to strive towards its ideals, no longer wants to be a shining light upon the hill.

What happened to this America?

[tommiele.files.wordpress.com image 728x221]


The Progressive movement of the early 20th Century, the belief that eugenics was a sound foundation for a modern society, and the second Ku Klux Klan which (when placed in the blender that is the United States Congress) gave us the Immigration Act of 1924.

Or in tl;dr format: Living up to our ideals became inconvenient for the ruling class.
 
2013-06-17 12:58:03 AM
Double-plus good written headline, subby.  The government will release your family shortly.
 
2013-06-17 01:04:56 AM
You know, the dystopia from Never Let Me Go seems pretty good if you aren't a clone.
 
2013-06-17 01:42:42 AM
Hey now, let's look on the bright side of the corporate-run dystopia:

media.etcanada.com
 
2013-06-17 05:56:29 AM

Agent Smiths Laugh: thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: think it more fair to say that somewhere in between lies the truth.

I think that it's fair to call that statement a stretch to pretend both sources are equally valid.  I don't blame you.  Cable news has pounded that reaction so deep it's almost a reflex.

You assume I watch cable news. You assume wrong. I do not have or watch cable. I'm not one of the ubiquitous major news media drones. But nice stab in the dark.

The article I linked was merely something I stumbled upon from other sources. Additionally my point was not that both were 100% valid, but that both probably have elements of actual fact, while both probably also have spin. So in that respect, your understanding of my statement is flawed.

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: My primary point being that if you think for one minute that the government is actually on your side, you're being a fool.

On the flip side, if you think for one minute that someone who is against the government is on your side, you're in for a surprise.

Then again, you seem to think that anyone who isn't immediately suspicious of everything the government does must live under the delusion that the government is actually on his "side"  at all times.  You can be skeptical about an action's implied interest without dismissing the legitimacy of it outright.  Absolutism is f*cking this country up, just like it does with every other culture that allows that to happen.

Outside a very small circle of people, I don't assume anyone is on my side.

And I pick and choose my absolutism, like everybody else.

What amuses me is that you seem to accept your source as the most valid and accurate information and argue from its position while assuming I've done the same. The former is probably wrong, the latter is completely wrong.

/but according to your profile, you're in D.C., and assuming that's true, I find it less surprising that you might defend the establishment


If I offended you by pointing out that your source was bullsh*t, I apologize.  I had no idea you would take it so personally, letting it spill out into other threads, etc.  I get that you're one of those "but really, what sources can you trust" guys who only uses vague philosophical meanderings when his position is completely unfounded.  I haven't indulged people with this sort of thinking in many years, and i don't plan to start with you.

Honestly, you should feel relieved that your source was bullsh*t.
 
2013-06-17 01:40:04 PM
See, the point here is that these other countries are run by old-fashioned Brown people, which is to say, despots. Therefore, subby thinks this is Dystopia on a par with ours, which drugs elementary schoolers, surveills everybody and everything, patents genes, shows American Idol, etc., etc.
 
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