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(Salon)   America has become a three-fold dystopia of Matrix, Orwellian, and Huxleyan ideals, claims columnist who clearly has never been to a true dystopia, like Turkey, the Sudan, Florida, or Iran   (salon.com) divider line 116
    More: Dumbass, President Dwight Eisenhower, Orwellian, Iran, Turkey, florida, Henry Ford, Cold War, French philosopher  
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2875 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2013 at 2:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-16 08:41:42 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: My primary point being that if you think for one minute that the government is actually on your side, you're being a fool.


On the flip side, if you think for one minute that someone who is against the government is on your side, you're in for a surprise.

Then again, you seem to think that anyone who isn't immediately suspicious of everything the government does must live under the delusion that the government is actually on his "side"  at all times.  You can be skeptical about an action's implied interest without dismissing the legitimacy of it outright.  Absolutism is f*cking this country up, just like it does with every other culture that allows that to happen.
 
2013-06-16 08:59:14 PM

thamike: Then again, you seem to think that anyone who isn't immediately suspicious of everything the government does must live under the delusion that the government is actually on his "side"  at all times.  You can be skeptical about an action's implied interest without dismissing the legitimacy of it outright.


[Smart]
 
2013-06-16 09:23:08 PM

CruJones: I used to date a girl named Huxley. She was hot, brilliant, and ten years younger than me. And liked to party. Almost killed me.

But it was fun.


This girl named Schopenhauer once blew me until my whole genital area was a deep plum color.
 
2013-06-16 09:28:10 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: Subby's wrong: I found nothing to refute in the article.  Just because a regime isn't shooting and labor camping people left and right doesn't mean people are free.  How about being able to protest without being arrested?  How about laws in ordinary peoples' favor instead of against?


Maybe "Rollerball" should have been mentioned, that would have gone into the mix very nicely. A world where nations no longer exist and corporations control everything. Fahrenheit 451 also comes to mind.

This was actually a very profound article. The author is right, the US has been on the path to a 1984/Brave New World society for a long time. Especially Brave New World with it's remarkably crass materialism.

As Winston Smith is told by his captor, the reason the Party exists is for power, there is no other end. Sounds alot like the thinking of the majority of clowns in Congress.

You can have a dystopic world without acute poverty or oppression, so just because the US isn't another Sudan yet doesn't mean that the article deserves its Dumbass tag, even if it is from Salon. In 1984 and Brave New World and Rollerball no one is starving, there's all sorts of TV and entertainment for the Proles or the Betas or Gammas. Its the life within that's completely barren, flat, and void, and while I won't say it's worse than watching your kid starve to death, it still sucks profoundly (except that you'd be so souless that you probably won't be conscious of that).  The US and the Western world having been going down the path since 1945, maybe even 1914.

The answer lies within. This historian Arnold J. Toynbee, who admittedly went slightly off the deep end later in life, insisted that the only hope for the West was a return to religion: a blend of Christianity and Buddhism. Fark is a bad place to mention religion, but with the exception of something like Prism, the problem is within, the answers will also lie within. Waking up and realizing that we're on the road to corporate nowhere is a good start.
 
2013-06-16 10:28:16 PM

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: think it more fair to say that somewhere in between lies the truth.

I think that it's fair to call that statement a stretch to pretend both sources are equally valid.  I don't blame you.  Cable news has pounded that reaction so deep it's almost a reflex.


You assume I watch cable news. You assume wrong. I do not have or watch cable. I'm not one of the ubiquitous major news media drones. But nice stab in the dark.

The article I linked was merely something I stumbled upon from other sources. Additionally my point was not that both were 100% valid, but that both probably have elements of actual fact, while both probably also have spin. So in that respect, your understanding of my statement is flawed.

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: My primary point being that if you think for one minute that the government is actually on your side, you're being a fool.

On the flip side, if you think for one minute that someone who is against the government is on your side, you're in for a surprise.

Then again, you seem to think that anyone who isn't immediately suspicious of everything the government does must live under the delusion that the government is actually on his "side"  at all times.  You can be skeptical about an action's implied interest without dismissing the legitimacy of it outright.  Absolutism is f*cking this country up, just like it does with every other culture that allows that to happen.


Outside a very small circle of people, I don't assume anyone is on my side.

And I pick and choose my absolutism, like everybody else.

What amuses me is that you seem to accept your source as the most valid and accurate information and argue from its position while assuming I've done the same. The former is probably wrong, the latter is completely wrong.

/but according to your profile, you're in D.C., and assuming that's true, I find it less surprising that you might defend the establishment
 
2013-06-16 10:50:17 PM
enemy of the state
You can have a dystopic world without acute poverty or oppression, so just because the US isn't another Sudan

The US is part of the same world as Sudan.
The American, European, and East Asian middle class is the Outer Party.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-06-16 10:54:04 PM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: Subby's wrong: I found nothing to refute in the article.  Just because a regime isn't shooting and labor camping people left and right doesn't mean people are free.  How about being able to protest without being arrested?  How about laws in ordinary peoples' favor instead of against?


Isn't it just awesome how the kind of people who spout off about "American exceptionalism" have turned into, "Well, at least we're not ________".
 
2013-06-16 11:07:36 PM
How is it that subby is allowed to make up words and still get a green?
 
2013-06-16 11:08:07 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: FunkOut: Dystopia isn't the same thing as backwards shiathole.

You sure about that?

Dystopia

Not seeing a difference in the terms.


A dystopia should take some effort, be something special.
 
2013-06-16 11:47:41 PM
kg2095:
But your society has developed a few rough edges over the last 30 years or so mainly due to the successful and ongoing minimization of the role of government in society. The United States no longer appears to want to strive towards its ideals, no longer wants to be a shining light upon the hill.

What happened to this America?


I wish I knew.  One of my saddest realizations over the last decade was that people like Limbaugh seem to think the Bill of Rights ends at our border.  They seem quite certain that the protections of our rights only applies to those fortunate enough to have been born here, that there is nothing wrong with locking people indefinitely if it's not on our soil, or to pay below legal wages to those who are legal citizens.  I thought we were at our best when we appeared to lead by example.  It seemed we won the cold war just as much by being the country that gave the world Coca-Cola, Levi's jeans and Rock and Roll as we did stockpiling missiles. How people can fail to see that we're becoming a dystopia is beyond me.  The difference between a dystopia and a shiathole, BTW, is that most people in a shiathole know they aren't alone in their misery.  In a dystopia everyone else seems happy, there must just be something wrong with you.
 
2013-06-17 12:43:38 AM

kg2095: Fano: is the the thread for folks who live in nannystates pile on about how horrid america is?

I live in a nanny state but I don't think America is horrid at all. It is easily the most dynamic and interesting place in the world.

But your society has developed a few rough edges over the last 30 years or so mainly due to the successful and ongoing minimization of the role of government in society. The United States no longer appears to want to strive towards its ideals, no longer wants to be a shining light upon the hill.

What happened to this America?

[tommiele.files.wordpress.com image 728x221]


The Progressive movement of the early 20th Century, the belief that eugenics was a sound foundation for a modern society, and the second Ku Klux Klan which (when placed in the blender that is the United States Congress) gave us the Immigration Act of 1924.

Or in tl;dr format: Living up to our ideals became inconvenient for the ruling class.
 
2013-06-17 12:58:03 AM
Double-plus good written headline, subby.  The government will release your family shortly.
 
2013-06-17 01:04:56 AM
You know, the dystopia from Never Let Me Go seems pretty good if you aren't a clone.
 
2013-06-17 01:42:42 AM
Hey now, let's look on the bright side of the corporate-run dystopia:

media.etcanada.com
 
2013-06-17 05:56:29 AM

Agent Smiths Laugh: thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: think it more fair to say that somewhere in between lies the truth.

I think that it's fair to call that statement a stretch to pretend both sources are equally valid.  I don't blame you.  Cable news has pounded that reaction so deep it's almost a reflex.

You assume I watch cable news. You assume wrong. I do not have or watch cable. I'm not one of the ubiquitous major news media drones. But nice stab in the dark.

The article I linked was merely something I stumbled upon from other sources. Additionally my point was not that both were 100% valid, but that both probably have elements of actual fact, while both probably also have spin. So in that respect, your understanding of my statement is flawed.

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: My primary point being that if you think for one minute that the government is actually on your side, you're being a fool.

On the flip side, if you think for one minute that someone who is against the government is on your side, you're in for a surprise.

Then again, you seem to think that anyone who isn't immediately suspicious of everything the government does must live under the delusion that the government is actually on his "side"  at all times.  You can be skeptical about an action's implied interest without dismissing the legitimacy of it outright.  Absolutism is f*cking this country up, just like it does with every other culture that allows that to happen.

Outside a very small circle of people, I don't assume anyone is on my side.

And I pick and choose my absolutism, like everybody else.

What amuses me is that you seem to accept your source as the most valid and accurate information and argue from its position while assuming I've done the same. The former is probably wrong, the latter is completely wrong.

/but according to your profile, you're in D.C., and assuming that's true, I find it less surprising that you might defend the establishment


If I offended you by pointing out that your source was bullsh*t, I apologize.  I had no idea you would take it so personally, letting it spill out into other threads, etc.  I get that you're one of those "but really, what sources can you trust" guys who only uses vague philosophical meanderings when his position is completely unfounded.  I haven't indulged people with this sort of thinking in many years, and i don't plan to start with you.

Honestly, you should feel relieved that your source was bullsh*t.
 
2013-06-17 01:40:04 PM
See, the point here is that these other countries are run by old-fashioned Brown people, which is to say, despots. Therefore, subby thinks this is Dystopia on a par with ours, which drugs elementary schoolers, surveills everybody and everything, patents genes, shows American Idol, etc., etc.
 
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