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(Salon)   America has become a three-fold dystopia of Matrix, Orwellian, and Huxleyan ideals, claims columnist who clearly has never been to a true dystopia, like Turkey, the Sudan, Florida, or Iran   (salon.com) divider line 116
    More: Dumbass, President Dwight Eisenhower, Orwellian, Iran, Turkey, florida, Henry Ford, Cold War, French philosopher  
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2880 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jun 2013 at 2:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-16 01:05:11 PM  
There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.
 
2013-06-16 01:23:15 PM  
Matrix, Orwellian, and Huxleyan ideals

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-06-16 02:15:07 PM  
Headline win.
 
2013-06-16 02:16:23 PM  

hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.


Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.
 
2013-06-16 02:17:56 PM  
Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?
 
2013-06-16 02:20:21 PM  
Subby's wrong: I found nothing to refute in the article.  Just because a regime isn't shooting and labor camping people left and right doesn't mean people are free.  How about being able to protest without being arrested?  How about laws in ordinary peoples' favor instead of against?
 
2013-06-16 02:21:05 PM  
Subby, Please look up the word "dystopia".
 
2013-06-16 02:22:09 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.


It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.
 
2013-06-16 02:26:08 PM  

Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?


Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.
 
2013-06-16 02:27:10 PM  
1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a extra religious government and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.
 
2013-06-16 02:31:22 PM  
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Goethe
 
2013-06-16 02:32:25 PM  

stryed: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Goethe


"Is this thing on?" Lenny Bruce
 
2013-06-16 02:36:29 PM  
Subby's headline embodies some sort of logical fallacy that I'm too lazy to track down the name of.

It is similar to an alcoholic who points to homeless winos to show that he doesn't have a real alcohol problem.
 
2013-06-16 02:37:00 PM  
FTA : the pharmaceutically cushioned, caste-divided and slogan-nourished Dr. Phil superstate

I kind of like that line.

The rest is the hand wringing of someone not preoccupied with day to day survival.

stryed: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Goethe


So long as there's a state, there's limited freedom. It's a small price to pay to avoid anarchy.
 
2013-06-16 02:37:30 PM  
is the the thread for folks who live in nannystates pile on about how horrid america is?
 
2013-06-16 02:38:03 PM  

xria: /by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.


Actually, I asked the original question precisely because I was once reprimanded by a Ukrainian dude for saying "the" Ukraine. But it's nice to know that's more than just some nationalistic spiel.
 
2013-06-16 02:39:18 PM  
Florida?  Fark you, Smits.  Hope you get to spend a lifetime in NYC or California.
 
2013-06-16 02:39:53 PM  
So now Turkey is a "true dystopia"? Just because some protesters get roughed up does not make some place a dystopia... that kind of stuff happens pretty much everywhere.
 
2013-06-16 02:40:37 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.

Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.


Well you're supposed to transport sodium on the ground and it was transported in the air. An unfortunate mix up but living in remote Alaska, he should have known better.
 
2013-06-16 02:40:43 PM  
I wonder what Matrix ideals are
 
2013-06-16 02:41:12 PM  
Florida is truly a hell hole. Stay away. Stay far away.
 
2013-06-16 02:41:37 PM  

TomD9938: FTA : the pharmaceutically cushioned, caste-divided and slogan-nourished Dr. Phil superstate

I kind of like that line.

The rest is the hand wringing of someone not preoccupied with day to day survival.

stryed: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Goethe

So long as there's a state, there's limited freedom. It's a small price to pay to avoid anarchy.


This quote fits the recent NSA business a tad better:
"People who think they're free in this world just haven't come to the end of their leash yet." M.Parenti
 
2013-06-16 02:41:46 PM  

StrikitRich: Florida?  Fark you, Smits.  Hope you get to spend a lifetime in NYC or California.


Hope you get to visit either some day.  Though, you should probably pick a specific destination for California, as it is an entire state, not a city.  A guy with your kind of mind should try Baker.

/not smits
 
2013-06-16 02:41:57 PM  

hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.


From someone who lived under one of those regimes:

What struck me after living in the US for a while, was the similarity, at a very fundamental level, between the US and Soviet systems: while the means by which they attain their objectives differ, the objectives themselves are, for all practical purposes, the same: control and exploitation of the public. Both systems indoctrinate with propaganda from childhood. But because the Soviet system had coercion at its disposal, the propaganda did not need to be convincing: if you stepped out of line, the government came hard after you. That's why propaganda could be blatant and absurd, and the public was fully aware of it and did not believe it, only pretended to. That is also one reason why the Soviet system collapsed.

The US system cannot use coercion (well, not at the Soviet level, at any rate, but the way things are going, give it time), so it must rely solely on propaganda, which must be believed. This means it's got to be very subtle and psychologically simple and attractive, rather than blatant and absurd, to be at once unobtrusive and effective. It's no coincidence that the mother of marketing and advertising originates here. If you step out of line, the government does not need to come after you: business, the media, and even the public itself will. They cannot jail, torture, or disappear you (the system is testing the waters, though), but they will try to marginalize you, and make it very difficult to function professionally and socially. And at least insofar as members of the public are concerned, they are enforcers without realizing it. Quite elegant.
Otherwise put, under Soviet "communism", everybody must believe without questioning in the party, which almost nobody did; under US "capitalism", everybody must believe without questioning in "the market", which almost everybody does (I use quotes, because neither system is the true thing, as they pretend).

--Fabian Pascal.
 
2013-06-16 02:42:06 PM  

thamike: Agent Smiths Laugh: Perhaps, but keep things like this little gem in mind when you say that.

It's a good thing that little gem is bullsh*t.


Reading both articles, I still don't see how the guy deserved 13 months in jail for such a minor infraction. A strongly worded letter from the EPA probably would have sufficed.
 
2013-06-16 02:42:07 PM  
Can we introduce maybe a fourth or fifth dystopian novel into college lit curriculum so that all these writers don't sound like such asses trying to sound so smart?
 
2013-06-16 02:42:32 PM  
While I haven't read Orwell, I think Subby has no clue what he is talking about.  Brave New World was in a very advanced society, but not a free one, and the Matrix was about people who were ignorant of what was going on around them.

This also leads me to question the mods here at Fark.  Really, you guys greenlit this one?
 
2013-06-16 02:42:50 PM  

leonel: Well you're supposed to transport sodium on the ground and it was transported in the air. An unfortunate mix up but living in remote Alaska, he should have known better.


Not that it matters.  As I linked, the Foundry story is bullsh*t.
 
2013-06-16 02:44:59 PM  

Frank N Stein: Reading both articles, I still don't see how the guy deserved 13 months in jail for such a minor infraction. A strongly worded letter from the EPA probably would have sufficed.


Perhaps.  I'm not aware of the implications enough to find the sentence fair or not.  If you notice the EPA link, it looks like he got a light sentence compared to what he was looking at.
 
2013-06-16 02:46:12 PM  

sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a extra religious government and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.


The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.
 
2013-06-16 02:47:34 PM  

Seth'n'Spectrum: xria: /by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

Actually, I asked the original question precisely because I was once reprimanded by a Ukrainian dude for saying "the" Ukraine. But it's nice to know that's more than just some nationalistic spiel.


I think they use the word "the" because it's the name of the region, not just the country's name.
 
2013-06-16 02:48:26 PM  
The worst part is, it's a dot Matrix dystopia, we can't even afford to upgrade to inkjet.
 
2013-06-16 02:51:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.




Exactly! No one should ever critique the Homeland.
 
2013-06-16 02:51:23 PM  

leevis: sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a by secretly negotiating with the  extra extremist religious government as a candidate and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.

The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.


Better?
 
2013-06-16 02:53:22 PM  

SDRR: Florida is truly a hell hole. Stay away. Stay far away.




Exactly, lease, stay the fark away. You asshole ruined it enough.

/first house was 60k
 
2013-06-16 02:55:02 PM  
sales of one recent edition of Orwell's "1984" had spiked by almost 7,000 percent on Amazon.


Obama is doing for book sales what he did for gun and ammo sales.
 
2013-06-16 02:55:26 PM  
If I could only write half as elegantly my work would be quite the chick magnet.

If only there were a market value for magnetized chicks.
 
2013-06-16 02:58:24 PM  

BokChoy: So now Turkey is a "true dystopia"? Just because some protesters get roughed up does not make some place a dystopia... that kind of stuff happens pretty much everywhere.


You've never been in a Turkish prison.
 
2013-06-16 02:58:53 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Exactly! No one should ever critique the Homeland.


That's powerful retardry at work there.
 
2013-06-16 03:00:39 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: hardinparamedic: There are problems in America with freedoms of expression, and privacy. Yes, that is a completely accurate statement to make.

Yes, there are problems with the Government attempting to spy on it's citizens.

However, anyone who would compare us, in an honest and non-ironic fashion, to a country like Iran, or Nazi Germany, or Maoist China/Stalinist Russia, needs a good, hard cockpunch from someone who actually lived through those regiemes and managed to escape them.

Exactly! No one should ever critique the Homeland.


I'm more troubled by the concept of good as it pertains to cock punches.
 
2013-06-16 03:02:19 PM  

xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.


This.

/Ukrainian!
 
2013-06-16 03:05:04 PM  

megarian: xria: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still correct to say"the" Sudan? As in, the Ukraine, the Levante, or the Romagna?

Especially now there are two of them.

/by the way "The Ukraine" is wrong, Ukraine is an independent country, "the Ukraine" suggests it is still a possession of Russia/USSR.

This.

/Ukrainian!


Is it still ok to call it The United States?  How about The Ohio State University?
 
2013-06-16 03:06:43 PM  

Senseless_drivel: leevis: sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a by secretly negotiating with the  extra extremist religious government as a candidate and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.

The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.

Better?


No. The Shah left in January of 1979, which works out to 22 months before the 1980 election. The Shah left a full year before the Iowa Caucus FFS. The demonstrations against the Shah started in 1977.

As evil as Regan may have been, he wasn't working on an Iranian revolution three years out from the election.
 
2013-06-16 03:08:08 PM  
I used to date a girl named Huxley. She was hot, brilliant, and ten years younger than me. And liked to party. Almost killed me.

But it was fun.
 
2013-06-16 03:10:29 PM  
In fairness, this seems more and more apropos every damn day...

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-06-16 03:15:50 PM  

buzzcut73: Senseless_drivel: leevis: sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a by secretly negotiating with the  extra extremist religious government as a candidate and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.

The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.

Better?

No. The Shah left in January of 1979, which works out to 22 months before the 1980 election. The Shah left a full year before the Iowa Caucus FFS. The demonstrations against the Shah started in 1977.

As evil as Regan may have been, he wasn't working on an Iranian revolution three years out from the election.


I think he was referring to the hostage crisis and the October Surprise conspiracy theory.
 
2013-06-16 03:16:02 PM  

buzzcut73: Senseless_drivel: leevis: sheep snorter: 1953: The CIA farks over Iran by overthrowing the legitimate rulers and putting in a mildly religious government.

circa 1980: the traitor Ronald Reagan makes it worse with putting in a by secretly negotiating with the  extra extremist religious government as a candidate and using hostages as a way to be called victorious as the new President.

The Iranian revolution and hostage crisis happened before Reagan got elected.

Better?

No. The Shah left in January of 1979, which works out to 22 months before the 1980 election. The Shah left a full year before the Iowa Caucus FFS. The demonstrations against the Shah started in 1977.

As evil as Regan may have been, he wasn't working on an Iranian revolution three years out from the election.


Are you talking Donald or Ronald?

In any case my correction of the original post was that Reagan didn't have anything to do with putting the Ayatollah in power but feel free to knock yourself out.
 
2013-06-16 03:21:50 PM  

hubiestubert: In fairness, this seems more and more apropos every damn day...

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x640]


Yeah, but the government can't track you into Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong.
 
2013-06-16 03:22:29 PM  
cdn.madamenoire.com
Huxtableian?
 
2013-06-16 03:24:00 PM  
From 1984 (and delivered brilliantly in the film by Richard Burton in his last role) :

All the confessions that are uttered here are true. We make them true. And above all we do not allow the dead to rise up against us. You must stop imagining that posterity will vindicate you, Winston. Posterity will never hear of you. You will be lifted clean out from the stream of history. We shall turn you into gas and pour you into the stratosphere. Nothing will remain of you, not a name in a register, not a memory in a living brain. You will be annihilated in the past as well as in the future. You will never have existed.'

/ pour you into the stratosphere
 
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