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(C|Net)   NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants   (news.cnet.com) divider line 781
    More: Obvious, NSA, United States, phone calls, FISA Amendments Act, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, Legal liability, Internet Archive  
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11319 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2013 at 9:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-15 11:59:33 PM  
The good thing about Re-education Camps is that they are Shovel Ready.

www.nps.gov
 
2013-06-16 12:00:24 AM  
Repeal the Patriot Act and any law that okays this sort of thing. And, while we're at it, fire a whole bunch of people over this.
 
2013-06-16 12:00:33 AM  

Gyrfalcon: So why isn't there a "third party" making a play for a big city? If they could make that much of a difference, why aren't they trying where it could count?


That's a good point.  Have this new party work up from the bottom, as opposed to impotently flailing about at the top.

I guess they'd get less campaign contributions that way.
 
2013-06-16 12:01:26 AM  

Granny_Panties: The thing that dumbfounds me the most about this "leak" is the fact that you idiots didn't know this was happening since 2001.


Even worse, anyone accusing the government of doing it was labeled "paranoid" and more recently a capitalist shill.
I don't consider myself particularly conservative, but I have been accused of being so because for some reason the left thinks that Obama can do no wrong.
DON'T TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENT!
 
2013-06-16 12:01:46 AM  

sendtodave: Waldo Pepper: mizchief: Mock26: mizchief: Mock26: I really cannot figure out why people are so upset by all these activities by the NSA.  Seriously, what is the big deal?  They are NOT interested in your personal information.  They are not trying to catch people breaking the law.  All they care about is Setec Astronomy.  They are just trying to improve our understanding of the stars.  So all you paranoid conspiracy theorists just need to lighten up.

Are you a troll, incredibly stupid, incredibly naive , or an incredibly stupid naive troll?

Sigh. Next time you see a phrase that you do not understand (setec astronomy) try Googling it first, OK?

I honesty skimmed over that part of your post. Just so sick of this "I have nothing to hide, I don't care if they snoop". BS argument. The scotch isn't helping, but is delicious.

people only think they have nothing to hide. just go back to the days of McCarthy and what he used against folks who thought they had nothing to hide.

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-t he -wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/

Everyone has something to hide.


I don't have much to hide, but I've got a lot most people would rather not see...
 
2013-06-16 12:02:19 AM  

Hermione_Granger: Lying Liars and the Lies They Tell:

Clinton's big lie: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

Bush's big lie: Sadaam Hussein conspired with Al Queda to acquire weapons of mass destruction.

Obama's Bush's big lie #2: We're not listening to your phone calls.

Obama's big lie: Change.


I fixed it it for accuracy. This was in place long before Obama got there. The only thing he did was going along with it.
 
2013-06-16 12:02:34 AM  

DeaH: Repeal the Patriot Act and any law that okays this sort of thing. And, while we're at it, fire KILL a whole bunch of people over this.



We are pretty much at a point where a Second Amendment solution is appropriate.
 
2013-06-16 12:03:00 AM  

insertsnarkyusername: Are there any ways to communicate that aren't monitored?

 
2013-06-16 12:03:16 AM  

Granny_Panties: What did you guys think the Patriot Act was?


The Patriot Act does not in any way, shape or form allow warrantless spying on Americans telephone conversations.

Neither did the FISA rewrite in 2008.

The whole point of FISA was to set a a secret court where they could go and get warrants.

They couldn't even be bothered to do that.
 
2013-06-16 12:03:45 AM  
So when can we ask if and when we have been monitored? I think it's a valid question and people should be allowed to come forth with their stories, with honest answers about how it has affected their life, if at all. We will never get that though and we are completely not in control of our government. We lost that control around 9/11/01.
 
2013-06-16 12:04:44 AM  

PyroStock: insertsnarkyusername: Are there any ways to communicate that aren't monitored?


25.media.tumblr.com
 
PKY
2013-06-16 12:04:54 AM  
It's nothing sadder than people who voted democrat trying to defend their party and Obama accomplishing nothing progressive, but instead staying the course after Bush or even expanding surveillance, secret courts, letting the three-letter agencies running wild, hunting whistle-blowers, ignoring habeas corpus, foreign policy etc. Everything change was about. Will go down in history as eight years of world's biggest nothing.
 
2013-06-16 12:04:57 AM  

sendtodave: Gyrfalcon: So why isn't there a "third party" making a play for a big city? If they could make that much of a difference, why aren't they trying where it could count?

That's a good point.  Have this new party work up from the bottom, as opposed to impotently flailing about at the top.

I guess they'd get less campaign contributions that way.


Where do you live?  Here in Colorado, there's third party candidates all they way down to local.  Not that they get many votes, for the most part.  The two party system is turtles all the way down.
 
2013-06-16 12:05:07 AM  

R.A.Danny: DeaH: Repeal the Patriot Act and any law that okays this sort of thing. And, while we're at it, fire KILL a whole bunch of people over this.


We are pretty much at a point where a Second Amendment solution is appropriate.


Not quite. Before a revolution can be successful, the government has to be unable to pay the military.
 
2013-06-16 12:05:09 AM  
https://www.whispersystems.org/#privacy

Call and text encryption for Andriod.  Open source.
 
2013-06-16 12:05:51 AM  

R.A.Danny: Granny_Panties: The thing that dumbfounds me the most about this "leak" is the fact that you idiots didn't know this was happening since 2001.

Even worse, anyone accusing the government of doing it was labeled "paranoid" and more recently a capitalist shill.
I don't consider myself particularly conservative, but I have been accused of being so because for some reason the left thinks that Obama can do no wrong.
DON'T TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENT!


Obama did wrong. He said Hope and Change and we got Dubya Lite's 3rd term. Obama is a scumbag. I still trust his scum more than Romney's scum. I hate voting for the better of two scums.
 
2013-06-16 12:06:06 AM  
We have to have fundamental change in Washington DC.  Dismantle the Empire. Bring the troops home. Stop making enemies that fuel the need for a military industrial complex. Introduce an amendment to the constitution that specifies a right to privacy in our high tech age. If Washington doesn't listen, perhaps secession is the answer.
 
2013-06-16 12:06:54 AM  

Gyrfalcon: R.A.Danny: DeaH: Repeal the Patriot Act and any law that okays this sort of thing. And, while we're at it, fire KILL a whole bunch of people over this.


We are pretty much at a point where a Second Amendment solution is appropriate.

Not quite. Before a revolution can be successful, the government has to be unable to pay the military.


We're really at a historic point when you bring up the subject of revolution though. You gotta admit that no matter what side of the subject you are on.
 
2013-06-16 12:07:29 AM  

0x1a4: sendtodave: Gyrfalcon: So why isn't there a "third party" making a play for a big city? If they could make that much of a difference, why aren't they trying where it could count?

That's a good point.  Have this new party work up from the bottom, as opposed to impotently flailing about at the top.

I guess they'd get less campaign contributions that way.

Where do you live?  Here in Colorado, there's third party candidates all they way down to local.  Not that they get many votes, for the most part.  The two party system is turtles all the way down.


Pearl River Delta.

Really only one party here.  I don't vote for it.
 
2013-06-16 12:07:35 AM  
I love how retarded Republicans are up in arms about the surveillance and yet seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that their good old boy George W. Bush was the one who made all this possible.
 
2013-06-16 12:08:08 AM  
Threads like this pretty much make me hate everyone.

JIHAD!
 
2013-06-16 12:08:27 AM  
Now if we could get people to understand that government officials as a whole (Democrats and Republicans) are both in on it, we could get somewhere. Sadly for the past decade the political atmosphere is so damn polarized that we take one side at fault and not the other.
 
2013-06-16 12:08:47 AM  

OgreMagi: Let me repeat.  VOTE THIRD PARTY.  I don't care which third party.  Just stop farking voting for democrats and republicans.

And for you idiots who say, "Oh, noes! That would destroy our entire political system."  YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT IT WOULD.  That's called a feature.  Causing a complete collapse of the existing political process is a damn sight better than armed insurrection.


wrong.

Not "vote third party". Vote pirate party. Get this shiat over with, by voting in people that understand these issues. even green party won't understand the tiniest significance of these issues any better than the democrats and republicans that are either willingly or unintentionally ignorant.

Technology is our society and has been for a millenia. If you don't make sure people understand technology properly you end up with abuses like we're dealing with.
 
2013-06-16 12:09:02 AM  

Vectron: We have to have fundamental change in Washington DC.  Dismantle the Empire. Bring the troops home. Stop making enemies that fuel the need for a military industrial complex. Introduce an amendment to the constitution that specifies a right to privacy in our high tech age. If Washington doesn't listen, perhaps secession is the answer.


PRISMED
 
2013-06-16 12:09:10 AM  

Asphyxium: I love how retarded Republicans are up in arms about the surveillance and yet seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that their good old boy George W. Bush was the one who made all this possible.


No. People that value liberty were against this all along. Don't pretend for a second that it's a partisan issue, the left failed to fix anything.
 
2013-06-16 12:09:22 AM  

Vectron: We have to have fundamental change in Washington DC.  Dismantle the Empire. Bring the troops home. Stop making enemies that fuel the need for a military industrial complex. Introduce an amendment to the constitution that specifies a right to privacy in our high tech age. If Washington doesn't listen, perhaps secession is the answer.


We need to support Israel.

If that means we need to watch everyone 24/7 to keep safe from the pissed-off Muslims, well, it's a small price to pay.
 
2013-06-16 12:09:42 AM  

Gyrfalcon: R.A.Danny: DeaH: Repeal the Patriot Act and any law that okays this sort of thing. And, while we're at it, fire KILL a whole bunch of people over this.


We are pretty much at a point where a Second Amendment solution is appropriate.

Not quite. Before a revolution can be successful, the government has to be unable to pay the military.



The Fed's shenanigans fuel the empire. I don't see an end to this anytime soon.
 
2013-06-16 12:10:31 AM  

Asphyxium: I love how retarded Republicans are up in arms about the surveillance and yet seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that their good old boy George W. Bush was the one who made all this possible.


Yeah, we're past finger pointing at parties.

I hope.
 
2013-06-16 12:10:46 AM  

Asphyxium: I love how retarded Republicans are up in arms about the surveillance and yet seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that their good old boy George W. Bush was the one who made all this possible.


I love how people can't seem to stop pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.

We're all responsible for this. We enabled it, and until we take responsibility we will have no power to stop it.
 
2013-06-16 12:10:48 AM  
Are there people who think this hasn't been going on for decades?
 
2013-06-16 12:12:14 AM  
2016 elections won't matter on who wins. If Obama vowed to stop the surveillance crap Bush did only to continue it, what's going to make any of the candidates on either side throw away the forbidden fruit?
 
2013-06-16 12:12:23 AM  

Craptastic: Threads like this pretty much make me hate everyone.

JIHAD!


Your kung fu is weak. Only Sean Hannity fits that profile.
 
2013-06-16 12:13:45 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: VOTE REPUBLICAN
so NSA wiretapping can go back to not being a scandal!


Again, this is not a partisan issue.
Partisans are like racists when they forgo what is right for what is popular and the mistaken feeling of what is self gratifying with what is in truth counterproductive.
 
2013-06-16 12:14:06 AM  

BullBearMS: Granny_Panties: What did you guys think the Patriot Act was?

The Patriot Act does not in any way, shape or form allow warrantless spying on Americans telephone conversations.

Neither did the FISA rewrite in 2008.

The whole point of FISA was to set a a secret court where they could go and get warrants.

They couldn't even be bothered to do that.


Keep telling yourself that. Warrantless wiretapping has been a key "feature" since 2001. I don't even have to guess that you are a Republican. Or what Republicans on Fark call themselves "Libertarian" or "Independent" that always vote straight ticket GOP.

This was a Republican act. Own up to it. Obama was just doing what his masters told him to do. The only thing Obama did here was spinelessly went along for the ride.
 
2013-06-16 12:15:07 AM  

Asphyxium: I love how retarded Republicans are up in arms about the surveillance and yet seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that their good old boy George W. Bush was the one who made all this possible.


You sound young.  It's been going on a lot longer than that.
 
2013-06-16 12:15:18 AM  

WizardofToast: 2016 elections won't matter on who wins. If Obama vowed to stop the surveillance crap Bush did only to continue it, what's going to make any of the candidates on either side throw away the forbidden fruit?


Hillary is worse than Obama. Romney WOULD have been worse than Obama. We will get no chance at all to vote for anyone that reflects our concerns.
 
2013-06-16 12:15:36 AM  

GhostFish: Asphyxium: I love how retarded Republicans are up in arms about the surveillance and yet seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that their good old boy George W. Bush was the one who made all this possible.

I love how people can't seem to stop pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.

We're all responsible for this. We enabled it, and until we take responsibility we will have no power to stop it.


Well, our representatives enabled it.   We enabled them by giving them the power.  But that's how the system is supposed to work, right?

I mean, I guess you could argue that we should have picked other representatives, but they would have supported it, too.

No, really, I think the blame is on the government not the people.  The people got shafted.
 
2013-06-16 12:15:48 AM  
"This idea that no court will review, no Congress will know, and we're gonna trust the President and the Vice-President of the United States that they're doin' the right thing, don't count me in on that."

Joe Biden, 2006
 
2013-06-16 12:17:03 AM  

WizardofToast: 2016 elections won't matter on who wins. If Obama vowed to stop the surveillance crap Bush did only to continue it, what's going to make any of the candidates on either side throw away the forbidden fruit?


By making it clear that we will not allow fear to dictate our vote.

They do this shiat because the risk of not doing it seems too great. We need to break them of that. We need to let them know that some amount of risk and danger and ignorance is acceptable.

The government does not need to be aware of or control all factors. Bad shiat is going to happen occasionally. If we try to deny that reality, we'll just end up with different bad shiat of our own making.
 
2013-06-16 12:17:09 AM  

Granny_Panties: BullBearMS: Granny_Panties: What did you guys think the Patriot Act was?

The Patriot Act does not in any way, shape or form allow warrantless spying on Americans telephone conversations.

Neither did the FISA rewrite in 2008.

The whole point of FISA was to set a a secret court where they could go and get warrants.

They couldn't even be bothered to do that.

Keep telling yourself that. Warrantless wiretapping has been a key "feature" since 2001. I don't even have to guess that you are a Republican. Or what Republicans on Fark call themselves "Libertarian" or "Independent" that always vote straight ticket GOP.

This was a Republican act. Own up to it. Obama was just doing what his masters told him to do. The only thing Obama did here was spinelessly went along for the ride.


YOU'RE NOT HELPING.

Patriot Act was bipartisan, and so is this.  Fark your team spirit, get on the side of the People.
 
2013-06-16 12:17:12 AM  

Vangor: If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.

Wait... from where is this argument coming from? Surely he means "without any other legal authorization 'sought'" rather than "required".


With Nadler, it's probably someone he ate over the last few years.

I always thought if Nadler met Depardieu, it would be like that time KITT ran into KARR.  I'm not sure who would end up eating who, or whether or not it would create a vortex/vacuum in space-time.
 
2013-06-16 12:17:45 AM  

sendtodave: Where do you live? Here in Colorado, there's third party candidates all they way down to local. Not that they get many votes, for the most part. The two party system is turtles all the way down.

Pearl River Delta.

Really only one party here. I don't vote for it.


Well, I guess not being able to vote at all is a little different.  For now.  I wonder if it even makes any difference anymore here.  We're headed to a bad place politically.  No one cares though.  As long as we can keep up with Paris Hilton and the Beiber.  Would you vote if you could?  So many here don't.  Turnout is depressing.
 
2013-06-16 12:18:42 AM  

Granny_Panties: BullBearMS: Granny_Panties: What did you guys think the Patriot Act was?

The Patriot Act does not in any way, shape or form allow warrantless spying on Americans telephone conversations.

Neither did the FISA rewrite in 2008.

The whole point of FISA was to set a a secret court where they could go and get warrants.

They couldn't even be bothered to do that.

Keep telling yourself that. Warrantless wiretapping has been a key "feature" since 2001. I don't even have to guess that you are a Republican. Or what Republicans on Fark call themselves "Libertarian" or "Independent" that always vote straight ticket GOP.

This was a Republican act. Own up to it. Obama was just doing what his masters told him to do. The only thing Obama did here was spinelessly went along for the ride.


The desire for public surveillance is too engrained into the culture of American politicians. When a president leaves office, it doesn't poof into thin air. The next president will have to go their own way to get rid of it and more likely they'll just ignore the hassle and keep it. Why yes, the last president was terrible for watching on the public! But I think I'll be doing it the right way!
 
2013-06-16 12:19:14 AM  

WizardofToast: 2016 elections won't matter on who wins. If Obama vowed to stop the surveillance crap Bush did only to continue it, what's going to make any of the candidates on either side throw away the forbidden fruit?


Nothing, if we keep on voting for the same two parties into office.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

Stop listening to the assholes who tell you we have to keep on electing them.
 
2013-06-16 12:19:48 AM  
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - T-Jef
 
2013-06-16 12:20:31 AM  

0x1a4: sendtodave: Where do you live? Here in Colorado, there's third party candidates all they way down to local. Not that they get many votes, for the most part. The two party system is turtles all the way down.

Pearl River Delta.

Really only one party here. I don't vote for it.

Well, I guess not being able to vote at all is a little different.  For now.  I wonder if it even makes any difference anymore here.  We're headed to a bad place politically.  No one cares though.  As long as we can keep up with Paris Hilton and the Beiber.  Would you vote if you could?  So many here don't.  Turnout is depressing.


I'm American.   I can (and do) still vote for American races (though only the big one, really) at the Consulate.

Don't votet for the Chinese government, of course.  So, I'm not missing much, neither can anyone else.

/that's the joke
 
2013-06-16 12:21:13 AM  

farkingatwork: OgreMagi: Let me repeat.  VOTE THIRD PARTY.  I don't care which third party.  Just stop farking voting for democrats and republicans.

And for you idiots who say, "Oh, noes! That would destroy our entire political system."  YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT IT WOULD.  That's called a feature.  Causing a complete collapse of the existing political process is a damn sight better than armed insurrection.

wrong.

Not "vote third party". Vote pirate party. Get this shiat over with, by voting in people that understand these issues. even green party won't understand the tiniest significance of these issues any better than the democrats and republicans that are either willingly or unintentionally ignorant.

Technology is our society and has been for a millenia. If you don't make sure people understand technology properly you end up with abuses like we're dealing with.


I don't actually believe any one party will fix it.  What will fix it is finally sending the message that we are tired of their shiat.  Voting the bastards out doesn't work because the replacement is from "the other party", which I don't believe is a different party.  When a significant count of votes goes for a third option we might get their attention.

Though I doubt that.  I've pretty much lost all faith in our entire political process.
 
2013-06-16 12:22:50 AM  
Weaver95
its interesting, isn't it? the people who expose the lies, corruption and dirty politics are reviled, branded traitors and punished harshly. and nobody really seems to care. we just sit here on the 'net, pontificating, watching NCIS and pirating copies of 'Game of Thrones'. meanwhile bankers still millions, our government loots and pillages our communication records, and congress does nothing but toss political footballs between various factions.

Actually, I'm working on several projects to help build an economic base for a sustainable anti-capitalist and anti-State movement by empowering people to have economic control over their own lives, under the theory that when people aren't under constant pressure then they make dignity a priority and are more likely to 'spontaneously' fight back against this kind of shiat. It's slow and thankless, but I've seen more results in the last three years since adopting this strategy than in the previous ten, and it seems to be gradually building momentum (I suspect that when it hits a critical point of participation among the general population, it will rapidly become mainstream, under the "innovator, early adopter, majority" trajectory).

So what are YOU doing?


cptjeff
You vote in primaries, dumbass.

A Progressive push in the Democratic Party Primaries was attempted in 2006. It had some success. And then the Party leadership crushed them. Within the Parties, the good-old-boys clubs have total control. They control the social networking. They have the funders on their side. They control the paid professionals who do all the electioneering work. The Party apparatuses are not just used to win elections externally, but internally as well.

Look, here's what would happen if you tried to do this plan. First, the local Party would greet you enthusiastically as fresh meat. Then, upon discovering that you have principles, you would be shunned and asked to do demoralizing election work (and put on lists to be hit up for donations). If you actually tried to run someone in the primary against the local Golden Child (office-holding politicians), they would react with horror and disgust and unite to crush you. The e-mail lists would carry endorsement after endorsement for the incumbent. Funders would give scandalous amounts of money to the incumbent to beat that little twerp upstart. The professionals would line up to help the incumbent, knowing that siding with you would be instant death to their chances at getting picked up as an aide in the statehouse or Washington. The Party hoi polloi would vote as directed. If you run a really fantastic campaign, you might get 20%. Maybe.

The amount of organization to reform the Democrats through primaries would require first building a new party of comparable power from scratch. Good luck with that.
 
2013-06-16 12:24:22 AM  

PKY: Obama accomplishing nothing progressive,


Just a few things liberals ought to be happy with:

Health Care Reform. Not as good as it could or should have been, but a really big farking deal nonetheless.
Bank Reform. See above.
Stopped a Recession from deepening and started a slow recovery, despite massive opposition.
Saved the US Auto Industry.
Dismantled the Minerals Management Service.
Ended Don't Ask, Don't Tell
Signed Hate Crimes legislation for crimes targeting LGBT victims.
Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
Got the VAWA re-authorization passed over significant Republican opposition.
Dramatically revamped US Foreign Policy to work in a much smarter way.
Ended the Iraq War
In the process of ending the Afghanistan War.
Changed US armed engagement strategy from the use of conventional forces to lower impact targeted strikes and special forces missions.
Tried to close Gitmo.
Ended torture and released the Bush torture memos.
Negotiated and passed a new SALT Treaty.
New GI Bill
Raised taxes on the wealthy while maintaining lower middle class rates
Increased fuel economy standards and allowed states to raise standards above the Federal level
CO2 ruled to be a pollutant.
Stricter labor and environmental enforcement within existing free trade agreements.


I'll start caring about what the "both sides are bad so vote third party" people have to say when they stop being stupid. Deal?
 
2013-06-16 12:25:22 AM  

sendtodave: GhostFish: Asphyxium: I love how retarded Republicans are up in arms about the surveillance and yet seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that their good old boy George W. Bush was the one who made all this possible.

I love how people can't seem to stop pointing fingers at everyone but themselves.

We're all responsible for this. We enabled it, and until we take responsibility we will have no power to stop it.

Well, our representatives enabled it.   We enabled them by giving them the power.  But that's how the system is supposed to work, right?

I mean, I guess you could argue that we should have picked other representatives, but they would have supported it, too.

No, really, I think the blame is on the government not the people.  The people got shafted.


We elected them, and we did it because we allowed them to play on our fears, anxieties, and hopes through slick advertising paid for by the highest bidder.

We allow ourselves to be played, and then throw up our hands and abandon responsibility for that.

Refusal to take responsibility just allows people to blame Bush, or Obama, or any side they want to put it on. And as long as it's being arbitrarily blamed on the left or right then we're just stuck back where we began with a subjective choice of the lesser evil.
 
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