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(Daily Mail)   Man loses job after telling his Muslim recruiter he'd treat her to a bacon sandwich. Bonus: She's a bombshell   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Muslims, sandwiches, Greater Manchester, Sharika Sacranie  
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28804 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2013 at 2:31 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-15 08:09:29 PM  
So is the consensus here that he should have looked at her skin, and assumed other things about her?
Is it that she should have looked at his, and realized that this would be a normal thing for him to say?
Is it that being offended is stupid?
 
2013-06-15 08:14:17 PM  

Jormungandr: That is true of both people involved, really.
I mean she could've replied "Sarnie aye, Bacon nay" or whatever Brits say.


I agree, but he was the one trying to get a job you know. You never want to piss off or annoy the person who has the power to hire you, even if they are being overly sensitive.
 
2013-06-15 08:15:45 PM  
Wow, the girl is pretty but she's an extremist! How else can you even tell that someone is Muslim just by looking at them unless they wear some religious or traditional outfit? Besides, does everyone in the world know that Muslims don't eat pigs and Indians don't eat cow stuff? Even though it is common knowledge, there are people in this world who don't know that. Mentioning bacon isn't something that is disrespectful to Muslims, especially if you don't even know they are one.

That girl probably needs to wear an "I'm a Muslim, so don't mention pig stuff or you're fired!" shirt because she's taking this issue too far.
 
2013-06-15 08:17:20 PM  
I'd never say that to a Muslim.

/Because they might have a machete or a butcher knife handy
 
2013-06-15 08:25:48 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: FirstNationalBastard: Kraftwerk Orange: rumpelstiltskin: I might say to a random black person, "I'll bring the watermelon to your picnic."

I'm born and raised in South Carolina, and I don't know a single person who would be offended by that comment, no matter what their race.  More than likely, they'd say "thanks, that's great!"

I'm just wondering why he would tell a random black person he would bring a watermelon to their picnic.

How does he know they're having a picnic? Does he just assume black people's lives are full of picnics?

Any excuse we can get to have a picnic, we have one.  Someone's got a watermelon?  Ok, it's picnic time!


Seconded! Silly northerners and their northern ways.
 
2013-06-15 08:27:48 PM  
Assuming the story is even true, there's plenty of people of middle eastern decent that are Christians, or non-secular. Also, not everyone is aware that Muslims don't eat pork. On top of that I've known Muslims who did eat pork. This is just another example of people expecting the rest of the world to bend over backward to suit their needs. This could have been settled by her simply saying "Sorry, I don't eat pork, it's against my religion".
 
2013-06-15 08:32:49 PM  

GreenSun: Wow, the girl is pretty but she's an extremist! How else can you even tell that someone is Muslim just by looking at them unless they wear some religious or traditional outfit? Besides, does everyone in the world know that Muslims don't eat pigs and Indians don't eat cow stuff? Even though it is common knowledge, there are people in this world who don't know that. Mentioning bacon isn't something that is disrespectful to Muslims, especially if you don't even know they are one.

That girl probably needs to wear an "I'm a Muslim, so don't mention pig stuff or you're fired!" shirt because she's taking this issue too far.


... Or, Mr Hunt was being deliberately belligerent, and continued to be so when asked if he meant it. Obviously we weren't there, but that's exactly what the senior manager said happened.
 
2013-06-15 08:34:07 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: So after noticing the manager had a listening problem, he told him to "sod off"... as would most normal people when confronted with someone of stunted intelligence trying to make them appologize for an innocent comment.


Yes, if by "normal people" you mean people with severely stunted social skills. If you are told that you have offended someone and the relationship matters at all then you do apologise. Explaining that the offence was unintended is a part of the apology. You take the opportunity to turn the situation around and have a bit of a laugh to smooth things over.
 
2013-06-15 08:42:50 PM  
Can I point out the obvious in this situation?  This person works in IT, a field not known for attracting people with the best social skills.  While I personally wouldn't assume to know what someone would want for breakfast, I fail to see what the problem with making what seems to be a harmless comment.

Thank goodness this episode didn't happen in December and this poor dude made the unforgivable act of saying "Hope you have a Merry Christmas..."  Half of London probably would have been in flames...
 
2013-06-15 08:48:01 PM  

ReapTheChaos: Also, not everyone is aware that Muslims don't eat pork.


See, this puzzles the living sh*t out of me. What year is this, 2013 or 1013? Are we still limited to getting trans oceanic messages on sailing ships in two months? We can fly around the planet in hours, click a few keys on a computer and have anything we might ever want to know (and some things we don't, like bronies) about other peoples, other cultures, and other countries in almost all the languages of the world at our fingertips in sound, video or text. Our televisions have thousands of channels, including dozens that broadcast news and information 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

How in the fark could anyone not know that observant Muslims who have been in the country you live in for decades don't eat pork?

WTFingF?
 
2013-06-15 08:52:37 PM  

Somacandra: Fear_and_Loathing: The question is how was he supposed to know she was Muslim?

Maybe he shouldn't have assumed she wasn't? Making assumptions about people's dietary/religious habits when you don't know them is rude. When I ask people over for dinner or go out with colleagues, the first question you ask is whether there are any places or foods to avoid for allergic or cultural or religious reasons. Its bloody well common courtesy. If he wanted to tell them to sod off rather than admit he was rude then that's his choice. Quit whining that you lost your contract because of your own rudeness. Grow up and act like an adult.


Adults take responsibility for themselves, they don't expect everyone else to do it for them.  Is the guy an asshole?  Sure seems like it.  Is it at all rude to assume the HUMAN BEING in front of you can and will eat the same things you might eat?  Not even a little bit.

If you have religious, cultural or medical dietary restrictions, it's on YOU to make that known.  I assume you are homo sapien and can eat the same things other homo sapiens eat.  If you can really make a case for why that might be considered rude, you go right on ahead and do that.
 
2013-06-15 09:07:58 PM  
I'd give up bacon (while she was looking).
 
2013-06-15 09:09:51 PM  

Bedstead Polisher: mike_d85: I once said "camel jockey" at work on accident. True story. I was talking to a Moroccan guy to boot. We were having a conversation about camel races. No one was offended, nothing happened and there is no point to this story.

I am not familiar with that term as a racist expression. I think I saw a racist dictionary online once and was not familiar with the majority of terms. I think many might be regional.

Addressing many other comments in this thread:
As a Canadian, I am only familiar with the black people/watermelon thing from the internet (and sites like Fark that bring it up a lot). I really don't understand that one at all because I love watermelon. I'm pretty sure 95% of the population likes watermelon. To offer to bring watermelon to a picnic is a great thing because it's a sure crowd-pleaser. I'd hate to be a black American who feels uncomfortable eating watermelon around non-blacks because they'd be waiting for someone to make a comment.


It's a holdover from slavery. Black slaves brought watermelon seeds over from Africa, and planted them in the small patches of land allowed for gardening. Not only were they tasty, they were chock-full of water (duh), which provided refreshment after a long day in the fields. In the US, blacks and watermelons have been associated since, but it's considered somewhat derogatory due to the slavery connection.
 
2013-06-15 09:18:32 PM  
rewind2846:

To be fair, while the access to information has never been greater, to expect any individual to have accessed all possible information is a bit much.  If someone has never been exposed to muslims, why would he/she seek out such information?  If your girlfriend doesn't follow football, should she still know Tom Brady's passing statistics?

Could you imagine the reaction someone going in for an interview would get if they said to the interviewer: "I see by your facebook page you are fond of Tijuana and Donkeys..."
 
2013-06-15 09:21:34 PM  

jpo2269: To be fair, while the access to information has never been greater, to expect any individual to have accessed all possible information is a bit much.  If someone has never been exposed to muslims, why would he/she seek out such information?


Well come on now, most people know that Jews don't eat pig, why wouldn't they know Muslims don't? Especially in Europe, where there actually is a sizable Muslim population.
 
2013-06-15 09:32:47 PM  
I think that it was very insensitive for the interviewer to mention breakfast in the first place. She automatically assumes that everyone eats breakfast. "Oh, look... here's a white Englishman... I'll bet he stuffs his face every morning."

What it if he was incapable of eating breakfast due to an injury he suffered in the war. Doesn't matter which one, but let's just say Falklands. Now he can only consume nourishment through liquids. A proper breakfast is now a distant painful memory until some insensitive biatch mentions it. In his flood of emotion, he lashed out. But she never considered that, huh? No... because it's all about her.

Or, perhaps he is fasting due to his religious requirements. Now who is being insensitive to whom? Shouldn't she be familiar with the dietary practices of all major and/or minor religions before she spouts off about someone being insensitive to hers?

She should've asked. Not doing so was insensitive.
 
2013-06-15 09:33:19 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: Mambo Bananapatch: rumpelstiltskin: [if I said]  "I'll bring the watermelon to your picnic." I know damned well that would insult the black person, and if I were to say it, it's because that would be what I wanted to accomplish. No apology would be in order. On the other hand, if I didn't know how insensitive that would be, then I would feel bad about insulting him. It's not his fault he got insulted. It's my fault, and I would accept responsibility.

So, you'd tell the guy to sod off if he was angry that you had intentionally slurred him, but if you innocently offended him, you'd wring your hands and grovel.

Okey dokey then.

Well, yeah. If I do something that provokes a reaction, I'm going to be responsible for that reaction.
How old are you, three?


If you deliberately do something insulting, either you intend to provoke a reaction, or don't care if you provoke a reaction. So why apologize?

I guess I'm a bit older than you are, or perhaps just not as stupid.
 
2013-06-15 09:40:07 PM  
oh! the drama.
 
2013-06-15 10:01:43 PM  
So much butthurt over a sketchy-ass tabloid story. I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI
 
2013-06-15 10:14:04 PM  

Mugato: How is it even supposed to be common knowledge that Muslims (assuming she had a badge that said "Hi, I'm Muslim!) don't eat pork? The guy's a 58 year old computer nerd. Maybe that never occurred to him.


In addition lots of Muslims DO eat pork.... just because someone identifies with a particular religion does not mean they follow all the tenets of that religion.
 
2013-06-15 10:19:10 PM  

rewind2846: Almea Tarrant: rewind2846: Almea Tarrant: Wouldn't it in fact be racist/bigoted/prejudiced/whatever for him to assume "Hey she's brownish...must be a Muslim!" ?

No, it wouldn't be "racist/bigoted/prejudiced/whatever for him to assume "Hey she's brownish... might be a Muslim! Maybe I shouldn't say the stupid thing about feeding her bacon that is about to come out of my mouth."

See what I did there? The bold is the key.

I do, I do see what you did there.  Changed what I said and completely missed the point.

No, I quoted you verbatim. I even bolded it (see above). You're the one who missed the point, that point being "if you don't know whether they're observant Muslims or not, assume they are unless they tell you otherwise and don't make stupid comments. In fact, try not to make stupid comments regardless and treat them like people".
I altered what you wrote WHEN I REPEATED IT to show how silly and erroneous your statement was. That's a common device on FARK, usually followed by the acronym "FTFY" (fixed that for you).

You've been here since 2011, you should know this.


So what you're saying is that you advocate judging people by their skin color.  Someone's skin is color X so I should treat them in manner Y...you know, just in case.  Brown skin, could be Muslim (bacon is bad!) or Hindu (under no circumstances talk about beef!) etc.

I worked with a woman from Iran, brownish skin with dark hair and eyes.  Despite her Iranian heritage neither she nor her parents practiced Islam (or any religion).  However, during the Iranian Revolution the practice of Islam mandatory for all citizens, face Mecca and pray 5 times a day, fast during Ramadan, etc...or else (in fact when she was in college a nasty trick was to report that someone you disliked was shirking religious duties as corporal punishment could be meted out).  She came to Canada with a strong dislike of religion in general and Islam in particular and was a staunch atheist.  She "looked" Muslim, not unreasonable considering her ancestry.  And she would NOT appreciate anyone assuming she was Muslim or treating her as such, quite reasonable considering her history.
How does that fit into your scenario?

Judging someone by their skin color...their race...no matter what your motivation, is racism.
 
2013-06-15 10:21:49 PM  

jpo2269: rewind2846:

To be fair, while the access to information has never been greater, to expect any individual to have accessed all possible information is a bit much.  If someone has never been exposed to muslims, why would he/she seek out such information?  If your girlfriend doesn't follow football, should she still know Tom Brady's passing statistics?

Could you imagine the reaction someone going in for an interview would get if they said to the interviewer: "I see by your facebook page you are fond of Tijuana and Donkeys..."


Then how does one explain my knowledge as a child the basics of being a Muslim, like the Hajj, the prayers, and the pork... when I was ten. In 1972. Way before the internet. And my family is southern baptist (my father is a deacon at his church).

The girlfriend is a very poor analogy, in that she may not be able to tell you who Tom Brady is, but she can tell you that there are two teams, the goal of the game is to cross the other team's line with the ball, and each team gets four tries to do that before they have to give the ball to the other team and let them try. Nothing complicated.

One does not even have to be "exposed" to Muslims (as if they were a disease)... passive listening and reading of media, especially after september 11th, 2001, should give you that basic information many times over.
There is no excuse for this chucklehead. None. That's why I don't believe that he was simply ignorant (lack of knowledge) about what he said. It was deliberate.
 
2013-06-15 10:23:11 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: UnspokenVoice: FirstNationalBastard: Somacandra: Fear_and_Loathing: The question is how was he supposed to know she was Muslim?

Maybe he shouldn't have assumed she wasn't? Making assumptions about people's dietary/religious habits when you don't know them is rude. When I ask people over for dinner or go out with colleagues, the first question you ask is whether there are any places or foods to avoid for allergic or cultural or religious reasons. Its bloody well common courtesy. If he wanted to tell them to sod off rather than admit he was rude then that's his choice. Quit whining that you lost your contract because of your own rudeness. Grow up and act like an adult.

Well, we've reached the point that innocently offering to bring bacon sandwiches is now considered "rude".

Obviously, it's time that we all started living in bubbles and never interacting with other people ever again.

/she could have not been a douche and said "I'm muslim, I don't eat pork.", which probably would have led him to say "Oh, sorry, my bad.", and the problem would have been solved. But, no, being an oversensitive douchette was her choice instead.

Where the hell did you learn to punctuate your sentences? Do you just shotgun stuff out there and hope it sticks?

No, I "believe" I learned. it in ä (school)...?


They taught you wrong I am pretty sure - though I suppose it may have been my instructors.

She said, "I'm a Muslim, I don't eat pork." Which would have been... (Only you'd probably not use "which" at that point.) That's one example.

Punctuation goes inside quotes and parentheses (usually). Also, .", is never acceptable unless they've gone and changed the language. My last English courses where at the collegiate level and some 30 years ago so I suppose they could have changed things.
 
2013-06-15 10:23:36 PM  

TheJoe03: emtbiz: deported

You assume all non-white people in the UK are foreigners?


That country is filled with invaders.  Nobody ever seems to care about the native Englanders.  The Romans invaded, the Vikings invaded, the rest of Europe even invaded and/or intermarried with their monarchs.  Collectively they committed true genocide against the druids or whoever it was that built Stonehenge (aliens?).

At least Americans didn't commit complete genocide and even granted our natives some patches of wasteland here and there.
 
2013-06-15 10:23:40 PM  
Never mind the bacon: why is it that every bimbo like her has a job, while plenty of smart, well-trained men like him are on their ass?
 
2013-06-15 10:24:35 PM  

UnspokenVoice: FirstNationalBastard: UnspokenVoice: FirstNationalBastard: Somacandra: Fear_and_Loathing: The question is how was he supposed to know she was Muslim?

Maybe he shouldn't have assumed she wasn't? Making assumptions about people's dietary/religious habits when you don't know them is rude. When I ask people over for dinner or go out with colleagues, the first question you ask is whether there are any places or foods to avoid for allergic or cultural or religious reasons. Its bloody well common courtesy. If he wanted to tell them to sod off rather than admit he was rude then that's his choice. Quit whining that you lost your contract because of your own rudeness. Grow up and act like an adult.

Well, we've reached the point that innocently offering to bring bacon sandwiches is now considered "rude".

Obviously, it's time that we all started living in bubbles and never interacting with other people ever again.

/she could have not been a douche and said "I'm muslim, I don't eat pork.", which probably would have led him to say "Oh, sorry, my bad.", and the problem would have been solved. But, no, being an oversensitive douchette was her choice instead.

Where the hell did you learn to punctuate your sentences? Do you just shotgun stuff out there and hope it sticks?

No, I "believe" I learned. it in ä (school)...?

They taught you wrong I am pretty sure - though I suppose it may have been my instructors.

She said, "I'm a Muslim, I don't eat pork." Which would have been... (Only you'd probably not use "which" at that point.) That's one example.

Punctuation goes inside quotes and parentheses (usually). Also, .", is never acceptable unless they've gone and changed the language. My last English courses where at the collegiate level and some 30 years ago so I suppose they could have changed things.


Crap that should have said INSIDE the parenthesis (usually) unless the entire sentence is within the parenthesis in which case they go inside.
 
2013-06-15 10:26:49 PM  
TheJoe03,

While you and I know that practicing Jewish and Muslim people don't dig on swine, but I do not think it is a stretch to realize that there are many decent people who would have no idea what foods a particular religion allows.

Growing up in an Irish-Catholic house, every Friday we did not eat meat-Friday night was "cheese pizza night."  Now I would not expect someone whom is not a practicing Catholic to know this fact, even though the intertubes hold this information.
 
2013-06-15 10:29:37 PM  
Over sensitive female or undercover racist?

If you are the kind of racist that would make that kind of remark to a person so important for your future job then I'm quite sure there should be other evidence of his ignorant nature.

or it could go like this?
Dude: I'll get the bacon sandwiches."
Lady: "Oh, thanks but I don't eat bacon."
Dude: "Oh I'm sorry I'll get you something nice you do want."
Lady: "Thanks, see you then, goodbye."
Dude: "Goodbye."

I'm really not one to blame the victim, but if she didn't say anything about his choice of words at the time in the moment then she's the one not being professional.  If you think someone is making an underhanded insult call them out then and there and address it before both sides walk away with false impressions.

Oh wait, its the Mail? Probably a made up story anyway.
 
2013-06-15 10:29:51 PM  

TV's Vinnie: HASN'T ANY MUSLIM EVER HEARD OF TURKEY BACON YET???!!


I thought the filter kept people from using swear words.
 
2013-06-15 10:40:59 PM  

Almea Tarrant: So what you're saying is that you advocate judging people by their skin color. Someone's skin is color X so I should treat them in manner Y...you know, just in case. Brown skin, could be Muslim (bacon is bad!) or Hindu (under no circumstances talk about beef!) etc.


The solution would be that when you meet this person, why not just ask? If you know their name and where they are from, ask about what they believe. It's called "getting to know a person". If I ask someone like several of my college classmates who are Muslim and are all different shades (one was blonde) to lunch, one of the questions would be... where would you like to go. The answer will give a wealth of information. Just by sitting a talking with a person you can find out if they are Jewish, Muslim, Catholic< protestant, Atheist, whatever.

Judging someone by their skin color...their race...no matter what your motivation, is racism.

I happen to be a dark skinned person. If I'm sitting with my white friends and they are slathering on SPF2000 sun lotion so they don't look like lobster and don't offer me any, am I offended? No, they correctly assumed that the likelihood of sunburn for me would be lower due to my excellent protective coloring.

See, there's a difference between "judging" and "thinking". Judging involves equations of worth compared to yourself or other members of your or other groups. If I refuse to rent you an apartment, or to hire you for a job, or to sell you a car, or refuse to serve you in a restaurant, or use degrading and filthy slurs toward you because of the color of your skin, that is racism. I have judged you as "less than" and unworthy. If you're a pale redhead and I suggest that you should get some sunscreen before we hit the beach, that is not racism.

Words mean things. Get some.
 
2013-06-15 10:49:04 PM  

gfid: That country is filled with invaders


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-06-15 10:52:59 PM  

jpo2269: While you and I know that practicing Jewish and Muslim people don't dig on swine, but I do not think it is a stretch to realize that there are many decent people who would have no idea what foods a particular religion allows.


Fair enough.
 
2013-06-15 11:07:36 PM  

rewind2846: Almea Tarrant: So what you're saying is that you advocate judging people by their skin color. Someone's skin is color X so I should treat them in manner Y...you know, just in case. Brown skin, could be Muslim (bacon is bad!) or Hindu (under no circumstances talk about beef!) etc.

The solution would be that when you meet this person, why not just ask? If you know their name and where they are from, ask about what they believe. It's called "getting to know a person". If I ask someone like several of my college classmates who are Muslim and are all different shades (one was blonde) to lunch, one of the questions would be... where would you like to go. The answer will give a wealth of information. Just by sitting a talking with a person you can find out if they are Jewish, Muslim, Catholic< protestant, Atheist, whatever.

Judging someone by their skin color...their race...no matter what your motivation, is racism.

I happen to be a dark skinned person. If I'm sitting with my white friends and they are slathering on SPF2000 sun lotion so they don't look like lobster and don't offer me any, am I offended? No, they correctly assumed that the likelihood of sunburn for me would be lower due to my excellent protective coloring.

See, there's a difference between "judging" and "thinking". Judging involves equations of worth compared to yourself or other members of your or other groups. If I refuse to rent you an apartment, or to hire you for a job, or to sell you a car, or refuse to serve you in a restaurant, or use degrading and filthy slurs toward you because of the color of your skin, that is racism. I have judged you as "less than" and unworthy. If you're a pale redhead and I suggest that you should get some sunscreen before we hit the beach, that is not racism.

Words mean things. Get some.


Well, it can be pretty hard to get to know every person you meet.  For example whole start of this was about TFA which was referring to a job interview...not exactly a circumstance in which you have a chat about people's beliefs.

Also lack of sunburn doesn't necessarily mean reduced risk of skin cancer for all people...you might want to grab the suncreen anyway.

I'd go on but I needs to look fur more wurds.
 
2013-06-15 11:09:11 PM  

Slaxl: It's quite simple. If he knew, or suspected she was Muslim and offered her the sandwich then he's a dick. Who goes straight to a bacon sandwich first? That's not a normal thank you offer. Flowers, chocolate, wine, or some offer of general food "lunch", "dinner", are what people say, no one jumps straight in to a specific foodtype, let alone to bacon when the person happens to be muslim. So I suspect he knew and said it deliberately, hopefully as a joke, because why would he want to wind up the person who got him a job?

However there's the possibility that he didn't know, and was just a genial old man trying to be nice, in which case she should have responded with a "no thanks", and left it there. If that is the case then he doesn't owe her an apology. Taking offence to an innocuous remark, or even a joke is a product of a poor personality. Taking offence to a deliberate slight is a different matter, though still rather pointless.

I am just going to assume both were in the wrong, if any of this story is true.


In the UK a bacon sandwich is a very common breakfast snack. I can totally see it as a generic comment he would make to anyone. It is certainly not some strange food that would make anyone wonder why he'd suggest it.

And I know Muslims and used to work for a company owned by Muslim brothers. They'd take all the staff out for a meal and buy anything, the only exception being alcohol. But even then they said if anyone wanted to buy beer or wine they could buy it themselves, it was just something they did not wish to pay for themselves. Out of simple manners none of us bought alcohol.
 
2013-06-15 11:26:11 PM  

jaytkay: Is "bacon sandwich" a common menu item in the UK?

Nobody in the US says, "Breakfast? Great, I'll bring the bacon sandwiches!"

Bacon & egg, yep. Bacon lettuce tomato, yep. Simply bacon? Nope.

/ Implausible story is implausible.
// I expect better quality racism from a prestigious paper like the Mail


Yes, it is a common item. A "bacon sarnie" would be a very common thing to suggest for a work breakfast or lunch snack. Fried bacon in two slices of bread, a bun or french stick, with ketchup or HP sauce...

/Damn, now I'm hungry...
 
2013-06-15 11:27:07 PM  

rewind2846: Almea Tarrant: So what you're saying is that you advocate judging people by their skin color. Someone's skin is color X so I should treat them in manner Y...you know, just in case. Brown skin, could be Muslim (bacon is bad!) or Hindu (under no circumstances talk about beef!) etc.

The solution would be that when you meet this person, why not just ask? If you know their name and where they are from, ask about what they believe. It's called "getting to know a person". If I ask someone like several of my college classmates who are Muslim and are all different shades (one was blonde) to lunch, one of the questions would be... where would you like to go. The answer will give a wealth of information. Just by sitting a talking with a person you can find out if they are Jewish, Muslim, Catholic< protestant, Atheist, whatever.


In a job interview?  Really?  I don't know about the UK, but in the US if you start asking job applicants what their religion is, you're asking for trouble.  I suppose the applicant could get away with asking and only risk not being hired, but in professional interviews some things are not appropriate.

It's one thing to ask such things in social setting where you're on relatively friendly terms.  I've worked with Jews, Muslims, Hindus and even Christians - also agnostics and outright atheists.  It's usually not something that comes up the first few times I meet them.

How would it go over if every Indian I came across one of the first things I said was "Oh, you have dark skin, an Indian sounding name and an Indian accent, are you Hindu or something?"   I doubt anyone fitting that description would appreciate the presumptuousness of such a question.
 
2013-06-15 11:33:34 PM  

buckler: When I was laid up after a hospitalization, my Muslim neighbor kindly offered to pick me up a pizza while she was out. Without thinking, I asked for one that included sausage. She asked if it had pork in it, and with an internal headsmack, I admitted that it did. Because she can't handle products with pork in them, I picked a different kind with all beef products for the meat, and apologized. After all, she was doing me a kindness. No need to be a jackass on either side.


I've heard about a trick a police station in the UK plays on new coppers on their first day. They send them to the snack bar next door, owned and run by Muslims, and ask them to get some bacon sandwiches. The Muslim behind the counter throws a hissy fit at being asked for bacon and threatens to complain to the police.
Of course all the other coppers laugh their heads off when the poor newbie gets back empty handed and tells him to go back. The snack bar owner has the bacon sandwiches ready with a huge smile on his face.

/There are lots of Muslims here who own snack bars that happily serve bacon. Just as every Muslim owned corner shop sells beer and wine.
 
2013-06-15 11:36:33 PM  
rewind2846:

Asking a question about your childhood, given the fact I know nothing about you other than the fact you post on Fark is a pretty silly question.  If indeed (and I will take you at your word) you knew about the Haj and the fact Muslims did not eat pork at the age of 10, then you parents deserve mad props to exposing you (not a disease) to cultures other than yours.

As for me (and I do think I had some pretty great parents), being raised Irish-Catholic, at the age of 10 I knew I couldn't eat meat on Fridays and Friday night was "cheese pizza night."  Ask me about the differences between religions and I would not have much to say, but ask me about the Miami Dolphins, Baltimore Orioles, or airplanes and I could talk your ears off.

Different people have different interests and if they are not "exposed" (not as a disease) foreign beliefs, interests of religions, then most are not going to become familiar with something that does not affect their lives.

For example, I know Cricket is a game, I know Cricket is a very popular game in many countries and I know that there is a great skill level involved in playing Cricket..  As much as I have tried to understand the game, I could not tell you anything of value about the game of Cricket..Being able to do so does not at this point affect my life or livelihood.

Specifically, I do know that Muslims do not eat port, or dig on swine.  When did I learn about this?  I really do not know; it was at some point between the age of 18-30....an
 
2013-06-16 02:11:27 AM  
gfid:
It's one thing to ask such things in social setting where you're on relatively friendly terms.  I've worked with Jews, Muslims, Hindus and even Christians - also agnostics and outright atheists.  It's usually not something that comes up the first few times I meet them.

FTA: "At the end of the 15-minute meeting earlier this month, recruitment consultant Sharika Sacranie, 29, shook Mr Hunt's hand and said she would come and meet him for breakfast the following week, to which he replied: 'I'll get the bacon sandwiches in.'

The appropriate response would be "I'll see you then, Ms Sacranie". Now if the Daily Fail has any of this correct, they knew each other well enough AFTER the interview to have a business breakfast the following week.

Also, you can find out a lot about people without asking what religion they are. What they like to do, what school they went to, etc. Their hobbies and activities can give the questioner a good insight as to what the interviewee is about. Now if their name was one that someone from the middle east might have (and I would know this because I would have done some research before the interview) then I would think "there's a possibility that this person may be Muslim. If I'm going to invite them out to breakfast, I should choose a place that doesn't serve haraam food". That may also be the time I would ask them if the restaurant I chose was okay.

If they choose to tell me they are Muslim, I'm okay. If they choose not to tell me they are Muslim, I'm still okay. Either way I win, because I took the time to think first, speak second, and do last.

Anyway, none of this excuses this guy. He farked up, then compounded the fark up by not apologizing when given the opportunity to save his job and his ass. Too many people across the pond (and in this thread) are threatened by the "brown invasion" as I see it labeled in British newspapers and opinion columns, and this is just another example of that coming to the surface. Here it's Mexicans, there's it's Muslims, but in both places it's the same old bullsh*t. It makes sense that this would come from an older guy too, one who grew up in a Britain that was oh so very white.
 
2013-06-16 02:24:04 AM  

jpo2269: Specifically, I do know that Muslims do not eat port, or dig on swine. When did I learn about this? I really do not know; it was at some point between the age of 18-30....an


And this guy is 58 years old, living in a place where he probably sees or hears about Muslims fairly regularly.
He must be a really slow learner.
 
2013-06-16 05:50:28 AM  
Even if he knew she was a Muslim somehow (which, short of reading minds or giant pictures of Mohammed everywhere in her office I'm not sure how he would), it's pretty silly to expect him to know every facet of every crazy religion out there he's not part of. Lady, it's time to act like an responsible adult, and stamp everything people can't talk to you about on your forehead. Afterall, we don't want you going crazy on us and trying to decapitate us with your scimitar for mentioning Grape Nuts or something. Now put your damned veil back on before some infidel loses his mind and says hello to you sinfully.
 
2013-06-16 07:07:14 AM  

Flint Ironstag: Slaxl: It's quite simple. If he knew, or suspected she was Muslim and offered her the sandwich then he's a dick. Who goes straight to a bacon sandwich first? That's not a normal thank you offer. Flowers, chocolate, wine, or some offer of general food "lunch", "dinner", are what people say, no one jumps straight in to a specific foodtype, let alone to bacon when the person happens to be muslim. So I suspect he knew and said it deliberately, hopefully as a joke, because why would he want to wind up the person who got him a job?

However there's the possibility that he didn't know, and was just a genial old man trying to be nice, in which case she should have responded with a "no thanks", and left it there. If that is the case then he doesn't owe her an apology. Taking offence to an innocuous remark, or even a joke is a product of a poor personality. Taking offence to a deliberate slight is a different matter, though still rather pointless.

I am just going to assume both were in the wrong, if any of this story is true.

In the UK a bacon sandwich is a very common breakfast snack. I can totally see it as a generic comment he would make to anyone. It is certainly not some strange food that would make anyone wonder why he'd suggest it.

And I know Muslims and used to work for a company owned by Muslim brothers. They'd take all the staff out for a meal and buy anything, the only exception being alcohol. But even then they said if anyone wanted to buy beer or wine they could buy it themselves, it was just something they did not wish to pay for themselves. Out of simple manners none of us bought alcohol.


Is it? I've never heard anyone talk about one, let alone seen anyone eat one... though writing that did make me think about all the times I've had breakfast... which is 0, and I certainly don't go out to have breakfast, so how would I know? Still seems odd, but if it really is popular then I'll let him off that one. Also I might go out for a bacon sandwich tomorrow.
 
2013-06-16 07:17:01 AM  
in the article he stated that he did not know she was a muslem so how they do this
 
2013-06-16 10:32:17 AM  

jpo2269: rewind2846:

Asking a question about your childhood, given the fact I know nothing about you other than the fact you post on Fark is a pretty silly question.  If indeed (and I will take you at your word) you knew about the Haj and the fact Muslims did not eat pork at the age of 10, then you parents deserve mad props to exposing you (not a disease) to cultures other than yours.

As for me (and I do think I had some pretty great parents), being raised Irish-Catholic, at the age of 10 I knew I couldn't eat meat on Fridays and Friday night was "cheese pizza night."  Ask me about the differences between religions and I would not have much to say, but ask me about the Miami Dolphins, Baltimore Orioles, or airplanes and I could talk your ears off.

Different people have different interests and if they are not "exposed" (not as a disease) foreign beliefs, interests of religions, then most are not going to become familiar with something that does not affect their lives.

For example, I know Cricket is a game, I know Cricket is a very popular game in many countries and I know that there is a great skill level involved in playing Cricket..  As much as I have tried to understand the game, I could not tell you anything of value about the game of Cricket..Being able to do so does not at this point affect my life or livelihood.

Specifically, I do know that Muslims do not eat port, or dig on swine.  When did I learn about this?  I really do not know; it was at some point between the age of 18-30....an


I am in the same boat.  I grew up in rural WV.  Seeing any non-white person was a once in a blue moon occurrence.  Even going to the city (Pittsburgh) we'd see some diversity but not much.  I learned the basics about the major religions in high school, but not every detail down to eating customs.  In school I was worried about grades, sports, extracurricular, friends, all that bullshiat.  I guess I should've spent my time researching every detail of every culture/religion.  Some of us don't have exposure to other cultures, not out of avoidance, but out of a complete lack of diversity in our areas.  And yet it had no bearing on my tolerance to others, as I was raised right.  Am I ignorant of some things, like the fact that Muslims don't eat port or drink alcohol as an example? I was, at least until I went to medical school where I met all sorts of different people.  Does that make me intolerant? No, that's completely unfair.  I shouldn't be labeled as such just because of the region of the country I came from.  Just as being a minority from NYC doesn't make you cultured and tolerant.  In fact, I see the opposite quite often.  Meh, just a rant from someone that comes from a region where you're automatically assumed to be a bigoted redneck.
 
2013-06-16 11:35:43 AM  
CW,

Obviously, you had some pretty poor parents and I hope you remind your father of this fact when you call him today.

j/k,
 
2013-06-16 12:49:03 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: The question is how was he supposed to know she was Muslim?  Guess he should have offered vegetarian baked beans on toast.  Life lesson learned.  Oh and SOD off!


Pretty much. Eventually everybody will dress and act like Muslims, including oppressing women and imposing the integration of church and state under sharia law, for fear of accidentally offending anyone who might happen to be Muslim.

/taqiyah: it works, biatches
//and the progressives will give it their full support, right up until they are told they won't be the ones in charge of the benevolent dictatorship
///then they'll be rounded up and nerve gassed by the not-so-benevolent dictatorship they handed power to
 
2013-06-16 01:28:07 PM  
I am truly amazed at the numbers of people in here that believe what the guy said was in any manner offensive, or place any burden on him for knowing she doesn't eat bacon.

Oh well, hopefully we can route around such damage.
 
2013-06-16 02:21:56 PM  

Flint Ironstag: jaytkay: Is "bacon sandwich" a common menu item in the UK?

Nobody in the US says, "Breakfast? Great, I'll bring the bacon sandwiches!"

Bacon & egg, yep. Bacon lettuce tomato, yep. Simply bacon? Nope.

/ Implausible story is implausible.
// I expect better quality racism from a prestigious paper like the Mail

Yes, it is a common item. A "bacon sarnie" would be a very common thing to suggest for a work breakfast or lunch snack. Fried bacon in two slices of bread, a bun or french stick, with ketchup or HP sauce...

/Damn, now I'm hungry...


I was with you until you said Ketchup.  I'm not sure what HP sauce is, so you get a pass there... but you would dare to put ketchup on bacon?  Foul, that is just simply foul.  (unless ketchup is something totally different over there)
 
2013-06-16 02:47:47 PM  

Kahabut: Flint Ironstag: jaytkay: Is "bacon sandwich" a common menu item in the UK?

Nobody in the US says, "Breakfast? Great, I'll bring the bacon sandwiches!"

Bacon & egg, yep. Bacon lettuce tomato, yep. Simply bacon? Nope.

/ Implausible story is implausible.
// I expect better quality racism from a prestigious paper like the Mail

Yes, it is a common item. A "bacon sarnie" would be a very common thing to suggest for a work breakfast or lunch snack. Fried bacon in two slices of bread, a bun or french stick, with ketchup or HP sauce...

/Damn, now I'm hungry...

I was with you until you said Ketchup.  I'm not sure what HP sauce is, so you get a pass there... but you would dare to put ketchup on bacon?  Foul, that is just simply foul.  (unless ketchup is something totally different over there)


No, ketchup is ketchup. The biggest brand is Heinz and it's the exact same thing. HP Sauce is brown ('Brown sauce' is the generic name, HP is a brand) and has a bitter, acidic, taste. It's good on chips (fries) etc, though I prefer mayonnaise on my fries. But that's more a Belgian thing.
 
2013-06-16 02:50:01 PM  

Flint Ironstag: Kahabut: Flint Ironstag: jaytkay: Is "bacon sandwich" a common menu item in the UK?

Nobody in the US says, "Breakfast? Great, I'll bring the bacon sandwiches!"

Bacon & egg, yep. Bacon lettuce tomato, yep. Simply bacon? Nope.

/ Implausible story is implausible.
// I expect better quality racism from a prestigious paper like the Mail

Yes, it is a common item. A "bacon sarnie" would be a very common thing to suggest for a work breakfast or lunch snack. Fried bacon in two slices of bread, a bun or french stick, with ketchup or HP sauce...

/Damn, now I'm hungry...

I was with you until you said Ketchup.  I'm not sure what HP sauce is, so you get a pass there... but you would dare to put ketchup on bacon?  Foul, that is just simply foul.  (unless ketchup is something totally different over there)

No, ketchup is ketchup. The biggest brand is Heinz and it's the exact same thing. HP Sauce is brown ('Brown sauce' is the generic name, HP is a brand) and has a bitter, acidic, taste. It's good on chips (fries) etc, though I prefer mayonnaise on my fries. But that's more a Belgian thing.


Hmm, still think that's foul.  Mayo on fries though, I can get down with that.

/I sound fat
 
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