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(The New York Times)   Fancy new off-campus college housing now makes it possible for snowflakes to be at the gym in 2.6 minutes; meanwhile, the violin being played for student-loan debtors just got three sizes smaller   (nytimes.com) divider line 56
    More: Asinine, housing developments, exercise machine, hand dryer, gyms, social environment, studying, students  
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2234 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Jun 2013 at 12:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-15 10:55:32 AM  
But even that pace of development falls short of the need, which Mr. John predicted would grow in the future as Missouri's freshman population climbs. (It is up more than 28 percent since 2007.)

We call it the Chase Daniel Boom.
 
2013-06-15 11:01:19 AM  
Students generally don't choose what their schools spend money on, and then don't get to choose how much they have to pay.
 
2013-06-15 11:06:27 AM  
Um, no Subby.  Student loans are still a problem.  A big turd of a problem.

/Also, it's my problem.
 
2013-06-15 11:21:55 AM  
NYU was kinda cool in that a lot of the "dorms" were old pre-war hotels and apartment buildings. My first dorm was on 5th Ave/11th St. Great location. Over the years though, my addresses got crappier and crappier until finally I've found myself in Queens. I thought it was supposed to be the other way around :-)

kmmontandon: Students generally don't choose what their schools spend money on, and then don't get to choose how much they have to pay.


Actually, schools are buying and building these things to attract the top dollar students.
 
2013-06-15 11:59:01 AM  
CSB

As an undergrad, I lived in a hellhole on-campus dorm.  CInder block walls, moldy ceilings, fungus in the showers, terrible food, terrible AC.  If someone had told me I could have better accommodations off campus at a lower cost, damn right I would have taken it.  There was no character building in that dump, just survival.

The bigger problem seems to be that a student housing bubble is forming.  My friends back in Columbia have told me that a lot of the traditional student housing is giving way to Section 8 due to these new places drawing off students.  Parking is horrible and downtown doesn't sound like much fun anymore unless you're a drunk student.
 
2013-06-15 12:33:44 PM  
Does every college have apartments nearby named "The Grove"? They seem to be everywhere.

/Went to my daughter's freshman orientation yesterday. She's got grants and scholarships enough to pay for it all with cash left over. 
//Kid who graduated #10 in her class, didn't apply for ANYTHING. Just expects his parents to pay for it. (I'd be pissed and Kiddo would be getting a job)
 
2013-06-15 12:34:00 PM  
Give kids with no credit and no ability to pay a near-endless supply of credit and.....they'll spend it.

Universities want that $$$ so they do what they can to make their campus 'student-friendly'.  Because image is everything when your target demographic is a bunch of high school graduates who can't wait to get away from Mommy and Daddy's rules.  So yeah, they do what they can to make their school popular.  That means looking the other way while 19 year-olds get smashed and passing students who really have no business passing....

I'm watching a class full of students borrowing upwards of 70k USD per year, to attend school, so they can get a job with a median starting salary of 50k
 
2013-06-15 12:36:11 PM  
The fact is that no one at university actually teaches anything anymore.  "Here let me run though this powerpoint which may or may not be on my shiatty website so fast that you can't really absorb any of it.  Now go read 10 chapters of some overpriced book and teach yourself everything that might be on the test.  Oh you wanted to use some expensive equipment? Well fark you, that shiat costs money and research is using it."

It should all be online with maybe one class every two weeks at most.
 
2013-06-15 12:37:11 PM  
OH! The college my daughter is going to gives kids who go to school in the summer FREE housing. They want kids to graduate ASAP, so they've got lots of incentives.

/Thought it was interesting.
 
2013-06-15 12:47:53 PM  
You's trollin'.

9/10 not bad subs.
 
2013-06-15 12:48:14 PM  

Earpj: Does every college have apartments nearby named "The Grove"? They seem to be everywhere.


Harkening back to Plato's Academy, perhaps?
 
2013-06-15 12:54:32 PM  
How is the school building luxury accommodations for rich students the fault of the poor/middle-class students burdened with loans?  I'm willing to bet  Subs has never been to college.
 
2013-06-15 01:18:30 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: How is the school building luxury accommodations for rich students the fault of the poor/middle-class students burdened with loans?  I'm willing to bet  Subs has never been to college.


The issue is that the poor/middle class students that get huge loans to pay for a lease at one of these types of places, then graduate and biatch that the lenders have the audacity to expect them to pay the loans back.
 
2013-06-15 01:19:04 PM  
I went to Mizzou and stayed at Mark Twain hall. I shared a closet with some introverted guy and then moved to some crappy apartments on the west side of town. Most decent housing had big signs saying 'no students'.
 
2013-06-15 01:31:40 PM  

kmmontandon: Students generally don't choose what their schools spend money on, and then don't get to choose how much they have to pay.


What does that have to do with private off campus housing?
 
2013-06-15 01:34:54 PM  

Mentat: My friends back in Columbia have told me that a lot of the traditional student housing is giving way to Section 8 due to these new places drawing off students.  Parking is horrible and downtown doesn't sound like much fun anymore unless you're a drunk student.


That and many parts of CoMo are turning into an absolute shiathole.  I know... I went to the mortal enemy school (so I naturally have some biases), but Columbia was pretty cool by me 15 years ago.  Last year I had a reason to stay, and it was drug-deals and prostitutes in the parking lot of my motel... some serious methed-out-nasty parts of that town.

As for all the amenities, I get that the snowflakes are born consumers these days.  But, it seems like it'd be substantially easier to live in a little cinderblock cell (and move all the time) now than 15-20 years ago. No more tube TVs and monitors, no more huge LP/CD/VHS collections, no more giant PC towers.  No more piles of paper if you get organized about scanning stuff down.  A week's worth of warm clothes, a week's worth of cool clothes, a laptop (you can even bail if your roommate needs the room for an hour), an external HDD, a little multifunction device, and you're good to go without even filling the back seat of your Civic.

/ three years in a no-AC mens hall at Kansas
// it was 110 the day we moved in
/// also, 'gang showers'
 
2013-06-15 01:36:30 PM  
I lived in an off campus dorm 20 years ago when I was the U of Wisconsin and it was far better than the school dorms. Also cheaper.
 
2013-06-15 01:58:23 PM  
No surprise. Finally catching up to this.

visually.visually.netdna-cdn.com
 
2013-06-15 02:17:02 PM  
Universities have been in a "dorms/amenities race" for years. Why do you think tuition's going up? It's not because they're paying professors more.
 
2013-06-15 02:27:33 PM  
Even the cinder block dorm rooms with a shared bath at my university run and average of $3600 a year, not including a meal plan. Seems like an OK idea to me to take the same $400 a month, get a roommate and you could get a damn nice apartment with your very own kitchen for the same money or a bit less. The bonus is the apartment isn't closed for winter break or during the summer like the dorms are. I can see why people would take this option over living on campus.
 
2013-06-15 02:41:11 PM  
I got kicked off campus my sophomore year for having drug paraphernalia in my room. I never had to tell my parents. I stayed with a friend for my junior year, and by my senior year, prices had gone up so much it was the same price to have my own apartment. They still don't know.
 
2013-06-15 03:06:56 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: That means looking the other way while 19 year-olds get smashed


As they should.

LeafyGreens: Why do you think tuition's going up?


At state schools, it's because state support is being cut precipitously.
 
2013-06-15 03:14:52 PM  

Thoguh: LouDobbsAwaaaay: How is the school building luxury accommodations for rich students the fault of the poor/middle-class students burdened with loans?  I'm willing to bet  Subs has never been to college.

The issue is that the poor/middle class students that get huge loans to pay for a lease at one of these types of places, then graduate and biatch that the lenders have the audacity to expect them to pay the loans back.


That's never been my experience.  There's a luxury apartment complex at my uni that's populated almost exclusively by the children of rich foreigners.  Everyone else makes due with what they can afford.

It just sounds like yet another permutation of the Welfare Queen, designed to make you blame the sins of the rich on the poor to justify reducing aid.
 
2013-06-15 03:17:39 PM  

Earpj: Does every college have apartments nearby named "The Grove"? They seem to be everywhere.


There's one going up in Norman, OK.  There is also a group based out of Fayetteville, AR that puts up Links/Greens everywhere.
 
2013-06-15 03:24:37 PM  
I'm not sure these places are "fancy" so much as they're just new.  Other than maybe making them smaller, or doing away with the pool, what other corners could they cut (aside from things that would require more repairs later)?  I assume the spa services aren't free, and a few arcade games and a billiards table really aren't jacking up the cost.
 
2013-06-15 03:33:20 PM  
Well...........the Trillions that the Wealthy stole from the other 97+% had to be spend somewhere!

its called Freedom.
 
2013-06-15 03:35:31 PM  

BigJake: Fark_Guy_Rob: That means looking the other way while 19 year-olds get smashed

As they should.

LeafyGreens: Why do you think tuition's going up?

At state schools, it's because state support is being cut precipitously.



and why is that.................cause the Wealthy/big business don't like paying taxes. their mice go to private schools.  and because outsourced to commie china jobs don't pay American taxes.

ain't Freedom great!
 
2013-06-15 03:36:58 PM  

Mentat: Earpj: Does every college have apartments nearby named "The Grove"? They seem to be everywhere.

There's one going up in Norman, OK.  There is also a group based out of Fayetteville, AR that puts up Links/Greens everywhere.


blue bloods do enjoy their golf.
 
2013-06-15 03:37:49 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Give kids with no credit and no ability to pay a near-endless supply of credit and.....they'll spend it.

Universities want that $$$ so they do what they can to make their campus 'student-friendly'.  Because image is everything when your target demographic is a bunch of high school graduates who can't wait to get away from Mommy and Daddy's rules.  So yeah, they do what they can to make their school popular.  That means looking the other way while 19 year-olds get smashed and passing students who really have no business passing....

I'm watching a class full of students borrowing upwards of 70k USD per year, to attend school, so they can get a job with a median starting salary of 50k


50k is optimistic.   now you know why Banks love Freedom so much.
 
2013-06-15 03:39:21 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: How is the school building luxury accommodations for rich students the fault of the poor/middle-class students burdened with loans?  I'm willing to bet  Subs has never been to college.



the Rich do suffer so in the 'greatest country on earth'.  you should know that!  at least the corporate owned TV knows it.
 
2013-06-15 03:40:09 PM  

WhyteRaven74: I lived in an off campus dorm 20 years ago when I was the U of Wisconsin and it was far better than the school dorms. Also cheaper.



20 years ago?

you need to update your firmware.
 
2013-06-15 03:41:17 PM  

LeafyGreens: Universities have been in a "dorms/amenities race" for years. Why do you think tuition's going up? It's not because they're paying professors more.



that is correct.  they are paying University Administrators more.   and the goddamned football coach more.
 
2013-06-15 04:00:04 PM  
I remember in school all of the off campus apartment complexes were all shiatty slum like buildings and the bedrooms in all of the units were about half the size of the dorm rooms.

Fast forward 15 years and my little sister is going to school and she paid some ungodly sum of money to live in this complex that had a work out center and other stuff. She said that she wouldn't be caught dead in the dorms or at any of those other complexes. Now that she finally graduated she is paying the price for all of that stupidity.
 
2013-06-15 04:45:29 PM  
1) Cut taxes
2)  School can't afford to build housing
3)  Build expensive apartments nearby
4)  Profit
 
2013-06-15 05:17:34 PM  

Linux_Yes: LeafyGreens: Universities have been in a "dorms/amenities race" for years. Why do you think tuition's going up? It's not because they're paying professors more.


that is correct.  they are paying University Administrators more.   and the goddamned football coach more.


Sigh- I wish.  For the past decade, the only time my pay raise was the same as the faculty's was when everyone got 0% back at the start of the Great Recession.  Our salary pool is usually ~1% less. Then again, if you go into academia for the great pay you're a moron. We have lots of problems hiring because we can't offer anywhere close to what industry will pay. You only work there because you like the academic environment
/D3 liberal arts school, so the football coach isn't the highest paid person
 
2013-06-15 05:41:49 PM  

jaytkay: 1) Cut taxes
2)  School can't afford to build housing
3)  Build expensive apartments nearby
4)  Profit



Sweet Jesus, give this Man a Medal of Genius and a Medal of Honor
 
2013-06-15 05:47:17 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: Linux_Yes: LeafyGreens: Universities have been in a "dorms/amenities race" for years. Why do you think tuition's going up? It's not because they're paying professors more.


that is correct.  they are paying University Administrators more.   and the goddamned football coach more.

Sigh- I wish.  For the past decade, the only time my pay raise was the same as the faculty's was when everyone got 0% back at the start of the Great Recession.  Our salary pool is usually ~1% less. Then again, if you go into academia for the great pay you're a moron. We have lots of problems hiring because we can't offer anywhere close to what industry will pay. You only work there because you like the academic environment
/D3 liberal arts school, so the football coach isn't the highest paid person


well, at UAB in Tuscaloosa, they upped the head coach and some of his assistant coaches a bundle in just one year.  in a winner takes all society,  everyone else has to cover the cost.  try to imagine, this dude is a University coach. not Pro.  its absurd.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7740227/alabama-crims on -tide-grant-coach-nick-saban-raise-2-year-extension
 
2013-06-15 05:52:31 PM  

Linux_Yes: imagine, this dude is a University coach. not Pro


Penn State gave Joe Paterno's wife $10M after he died.

She gets another $3M over the next few years.
 
2013-06-15 06:08:02 PM  
All I can say is, based on the looks of the buildings they're putting up, my alma mater can fark off if they think they're getting any donations from me.
 
2013-06-15 06:12:52 PM  

Linux_Yes: Glockenspiel Hero: Linux_Yes: LeafyGreens: Universities have been in a "dorms/amenities race" for years. Why do you think tuition's going up? It's not because they're paying professors more.


that is correct.  they are paying University Administrators more.   and the goddamned football coach more.

Sigh- I wish.  For the past decade, the only time my pay raise was the same as the faculty's was when everyone got 0% back at the start of the Great Recession.  Our salary pool is usually ~1% less. Then again, if you go into academia for the great pay you're a moron. We have lots of problems hiring because we can't offer anywhere close to what industry will pay. You only work there because you like the academic environment
/D3 liberal arts school, so the football coach isn't the highest paid person

well, at UAB in Tuscaloosa, they upped the head coach and some of his assistant coaches a bundle in just one year.  in a winner takes all society,  everyone else has to cover the cost.  try to imagine, this dude is a University coach. not Pro.  its absurd.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7740227/alabama-crims on -tide-grant-coach-nick-saban-raise-2-year-extension


A) UAB is in Birmingham, not Tuscaloosa.  Hence: University of Alabama-Birmingham

B) "Alabama's athletic department brought in $67.7 million in revenue and had a $7.1 million surplus the year before his arrival, according to figures compiled by USA Today. Last fiscal year, Alabama's athletic revenue was $124.5 million and its profit was $19.4 million.
Football alone produced $82 million in revenue and had a profit of $45.1 million."

The Alabama football program generates 250% more non-tuition revenue than every other department on campus combined.  Now, he is paid a lot, probably more than he would be if players were paid as well.  But Nick Saban has been worth every sent he's been paid by the University of Alabama.
 
2013-06-15 06:26:39 PM  

jaytkay: Linux_Yes: imagine, this dude is a University coach. not Pro

Penn State gave Joe Paterno's wife $10M after he died.

She gets another $3M over the next few years.



well, let's be honest. turning Tight Ends into Wide Receivers takes alot of talent and skill and work.  I'm sure all that labor and love is worth keeping Joe's better half in the expensive shopping district.
 
2013-06-15 06:28:23 PM  

rugman11: Linux_Yes: Glockenspiel Hero: Linux_Yes: LeafyGreens: Universities have been in a "dorms/amenities race" for years. Why do you think tuition's going up? It's not because they're paying professors more.


that is correct.  they are paying University Administrators more.   and the goddamned football coach more.

Sigh- I wish.  For the past decade, the only time my pay raise was the same as the faculty's was when everyone got 0% back at the start of the Great Recession.  Our salary pool is usually ~1% less. Then again, if you go into academia for the great pay you're a moron. We have lots of problems hiring because we can't offer anywhere close to what industry will pay. You only work there because you like the academic environment
/D3 liberal arts school, so the football coach isn't the highest paid person

well, at UAB in Tuscaloosa, they upped the head coach and some of his assistant coaches a bundle in just one year.  in a winner takes all society,  everyone else has to cover the cost.  try to imagine, this dude is a University coach. not Pro.  its absurd.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7740227/alabama-crims on -tide-grant-coach-nick-saban-raise-2-year-extension

A) UAB is in Birmingham, not Tuscaloosa.  Hence: University of Alabama-Birmingham

B) "Alabama's athletic department brought in $67.7 million in revenue and had a $7.1 million surplus the year before his arrival, according to figures compiled by USA Today. Last fiscal year, Alabama's athletic revenue was $124.5 million and its profit was $19.4 million.
Football alone produced $82 million in revenue and had a profit of $45.1 million."

The Alabama football program generates 250% more non-tuition revenue than every other department on campus combined.  Now, he is paid a lot, probably more than he would be if players were paid as well.  But Nick Saban has been worth every sent he's been paid by the University of Alabama.



lets just hope they don't ask for tax money to build a new stadium like the Pros so often do.
 
2013-06-15 06:32:12 PM  
Maybe I didn't read the article closely enough, but it's been my experience that living in the sort of apartments described here can still be much cheaper than living on campus.

I lived a couple years during my undergrad in what might be described as a "luxury apartment" that was fairly new. Lived with three other roommates. The place had the workout facility, study rooms, a pool, and 'free' cable/internet. Each bedroom had its own bathroom and the apartment came furnished and with all appliances (including washer and dryer). All told, it was pretty nice. Accounting for food and misc. the rent for one year was ~2/3 of the room and board at for living on campus and there you got kicked out for the summer.

It is easy, depending on the location of the complex, to become a bit alienated from campus life, which is what prompted me to move closer to campus for my senior year. Still, just because they're luxury apartments doesn't mean they're not a better value than dorms.
 
2013-06-15 06:32:19 PM  

rugman11: Linux_Yes: Glockenspiel Hero: Linux_Yes: LeafyGreens: Universities have been in a "dorms/amenities race" for years. Why do you think tuition's going up? It's not because they're paying professors more.


that is correct.  they are paying University Administrators more.   and the goddamned football coach more.

Sigh- I wish.  For the past decade, the only time my pay raise was the same as the faculty's was when everyone got 0% back at the start of the Great Recession.  Our salary pool is usually ~1% less. Then again, if you go into academia for the great pay you're a moron. We have lots of problems hiring because we can't offer anywhere close to what industry will pay. You only work there because you like the academic environment
/D3 liberal arts school, so the football coach isn't the highest paid person

well, at UAB in Tuscaloosa, they upped the head coach and some of his assistant coaches a bundle in just one year.  in a winner takes all society,  everyone else has to cover the cost.  try to imagine, this dude is a University coach. not Pro.  its absurd.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7740227/alabama-crims on -tide-grant-coach-nick-saban-raise-2-year-extension

A) UAB is in Birmingham, not Tuscaloosa.  Hence: University of Alabama-Birmingham

B) "Alabama's athletic department brought in $67.7 million in revenue and had a $7.1 million surplus the year before his arrival, according to figures compiled by USA Today. Last fiscal year, Alabama's athletic revenue was $124.5 million and its profit was $19.4 million.
Football alone produced $82 million in revenue and had a profit of $45.1 million."

The Alabama football program generates 250% more non-tuition revenue than every other department on campus combined.  Now, he is paid a lot, probably more than he would be if players were paid as well.  But Nick Saban has been worth every sent he's been paid by the University of Alabama.



besides, they are going to need that money (under the table of course) to bring in the best players. the best players don't come cheap.
 
2013-06-15 07:00:40 PM  

rmcooper4: Maybe I didn't read the article closely enough, but it's been my experience that living in the sort of apartments described here can still be much cheaper than living on campus.

I lived a couple years during my undergrad in what might be described as a "luxury apartment" that was fairly new. Lived with three other roommates. The place had the workout facility, study rooms, a pool, and 'free' cable/internet. Each bedroom had its own bathroom and the apartment came furnished and with all appliances (including washer and dryer). All told, it was pretty nice. Accounting for food and misc. the rent for one year was ~2/3 of the room and board at for living on campus and there you got kicked out for the summer.

It is easy, depending on the location of the complex, to become a bit alienated from campus life, which is what prompted me to move closer to campus for my senior year. Still, just because they're luxury apartments doesn't mean they're not a better value than dorms.


Yeah, my alma mater is currently sitting at $1000 for room and board.  Now, it's got a world class cafeteria and 95% of students live on-campus, so the dorms were a great experience, but you can get a 3-bedroom, 1100. sq ft. apartment for $900/month, spend $200/month on groceries (which is good eating) and still spend only half what the on-campus kids are (with two-roommates).
 
2013-06-15 07:38:18 PM  

ghare: All I can say is, based on the looks of the buildings they're putting up, my alma mater can fark off if they think they're getting any donations from me.


I explicitly told mine such.

I paid them $85k for PowerPoint presentations and adjuncts reading out of the textbooks. I think that's a lifetime worth of generous donations right there.
 
2013-06-15 10:51:10 PM  

rmcooper4: Maybe I didn't read the article closely enough, but it's been my experience that living in the sort of apartments described here can still be much cheaper than living on campus.


To be totally blunt about it, universities would be pretty psyched to get out of the dorming business altogether.  It's a liability headache.  Kids aren't drinking themselves into a stupor, climbing out of windows, getting their iPads stolen, or setting crap on fire in their 9:30a SOC 101 class.

They stay in the dorm business out of habit and tradition, largely.  But, at least most around here, haven't built a new dorm in 30 years, all the suite-style renovations substantially cut capacity in the existing dorms, while enrollments are double what they were 30 years ago.  And the dorms charge what they do for food, parking, internet, etc, in order to encourage you to go off to the private equity-run complexes.
 
2013-06-15 11:50:53 PM  

Lawnchair: To be totally blunt about it, universities would be pretty psyched to get out of the dorming business altogether.  It's a liability headache.  Kids aren't drinking themselves into a stupor, climbing out of windows, getting their iPads stolen, or setting crap on fire in their 9:30a SOC 101 class.

They stay in the dorm business out of habit and tradition, largely.  But, at least most around here, haven't built a new dorm in 30 years, all the suite-style renovations substantially cut capacity in the existing dorms, while enrollments are double what they were 30 years ago.  And the dorms charge what they do for food, parking, internet, etc, in order to encourage you to go off to the private equity-run complexes.


dorms are lucrative.
I went to a large Big 10 school that forced students to live the first year on-campus.  Rent amounted to $770/mo before the meal plan even kicked in and that is living in a large residence hall/petri dish.  Once i had been working for a few years, I rented a furnished apartment with a friend of mine for $334/mo.  Kids cant wait to get out of the dorms and the school tries like hell to get you to stay.  Sob stories about "The dorm experience" are really all they can come up with.
 
2013-06-16 12:21:12 AM  
On-campus housing can be a little scam-y, but in a different way. If your family is low income you can get a federal rent subsidy for an on-campus dorm. You see where this is going; the schools can get away with charging high prices for dorms because the feds foot the bill.

Providing help with rent for needy students is one of those altruistic ideas that America somehow turned into a cash machine for a private industry.
 
2013-06-16 12:32:25 AM  
Anybody check out the pictures in TFA?  Slide 3:

graphics8.nytimes.com

"The male wing of this luxury apartment includes unlimited use of the private wank station, complete with a one-way mirror view of the pool."
 
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