Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Talking Points Memo)   Attention, Generals. Don't like sexual harassment? Want to send a message? This is how it's done   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 189
    More: Hero  
•       •       •

27595 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 11:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



189 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-06-15 01:59:41 AM  
The bit about standing up to those who show strength through humiliation sort of precludes drill sergeants.
 
2013-06-15 02:02:04 AM  
Proper use of "hero" tag...check.
 
2013-06-15 02:05:29 AM  
Man.  I feel ashamed.
 
2013-06-15 02:07:21 AM  

Iplaybass: ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.

We are. We just just bang on about it like others do. Our military record is pretty good and our troops, especially our SAS, have a higher rate of effectiveness than others. We're also better liked than other other English speaking allies.

/true story.


Us Marines have always liked you guys.
/
 
2013-06-15 02:11:09 AM  

Snooki Punch: Wow. I'm not in the military, but I am a female in a male-dominated industry. I know for a fact that there are sexist arseholes in my place of employment who treat me like I'm an idiot because I'm a girl who is younger than them. A few weeks ago, after a long time working up the courage, I finally brought my concern to my boss. His exact response was, "well, what do you want ME to do about it?" That hurt, perhaps even worse than being mistreated in the first place.

With that recent experience in my mind, this video brought tears to my eyes. Well done, Australian Armed Forces. When you get the morale-sinking arseholes out of the way, your good employees, soldiers, whomever, can do their best work and reach their fullest potential, rather than stress about being treated in a disrespectful manner. And I'm not just talking about men who disrespect women. I'm talking about anyone who willfully makes work unnecessarily awful for anyone else.

/that was a good rant
//feeling better already


You shouldn't let your pretty little head get all upset like that, dear.
 
2013-06-15 02:11:15 AM  

kyuzokai: The only thing I previously knew about the Aussie Army was from And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda.  Put the two things together and I'd say they're a bunch of badasses.

/'never knew there were worse things than dying'


Goddammit, I always get teary-eyed when I listen to that.  Why did I bloody click it???

Outstanding work there Lt. General.  By the way, to those of you who are curious as to what this is in response to, here you go.
 
2013-06-15 02:31:37 AM  

daisygrrl: deforge: This. This is how every decent, self-respecting military and/or police officer and leader should be addressing any acts of wrong doing by their own. instead of stone-walling, or covering it up.

This is the speech I hope to hear every time wrongdoing is exposed. Especially the part about ignoring bad behaviour = condoning it.

Dear leaders: every time you stonewall or make excuses, I know that it's because you're not upset at the action, you're upset that someone got caught. Knock it off and own up to your shiat for once.


ALL OF THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-06-15 02:34:09 AM  

buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.


Are you kidding? If a Joint Chief or any commander in the military put out a video like this there would calls from the right for them to resign, loud calls.
 
2013-06-15 02:37:16 AM  

Snooki Punch: Wow. I'm not in the military, but I am a female in a male-dominated industry. I know for a fact that there are sexist arseholes in my place of employment who treat me like I'm an idiot because I'm a girl who is younger than them. A few weeks ago, after a long time working up the courage, I finally brought my concern to my boss. His exact response was, "well, what do you want ME to do about it?" That hurt, perhaps even worse than being mistreated in the first place.

With that recent experience in my mind, this video brought tears to my eyes. Well done, Australian Armed Forces. When you get the morale-sinking arseholes out of the way, your good employees, soldiers, whomever, can do their best work and reach their fullest potential, rather than stress about being treated in a disrespectful manner. And I'm not just talking about men who disrespect women. I'm talking about anyone who willfully makes work unnecessarily awful for anyone else.

/that was a good rant
//feeling better already


It's because men don't see verbal abuse and condescension in the workplace...
imgs.xkcd.com
... as a gender issue. Gender's just a way to differentiate, the abuse is gonna be there regardless of your chromosome pairing.
 
2013-06-15 02:38:23 AM  
This was in response to "Alleged" sex tapes of unsuspecting women with officers and NCO's getting spread around the web. The ADF is working hard to reduce the arsehole element, particularly the ritual bastardisation in the academy. It almost got there, then this scandal broke. There is more than one Pissed off General on the hunt.
 
2013-06-15 02:39:57 AM  
Seemed pretty boilerplate until "If that does not suit you, then get out." Dripping with venom.

umichtournament.wikispaces.com

/and rightfully so
 
2013-06-15 02:42:47 AM  
Summary: criminals telling criminals that their criminal behavior will not be tolerated.

:-D
 
2013-06-15 02:46:11 AM  
Can we steal the General from the Aussies? It was refreshing to see that he was not just a talking head like our senior military. It might have been just my perception, but throughout his entire speech he looked pissed. Like reaching through the intertubes and ripping someone's head off pissed.
 
2013-06-15 02:46:58 AM  

LDM90: Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.


only if your the target
 
2013-06-15 02:50:01 AM  
I thought he was going to start crying.  Them aussies are poofters.
 
2013-06-15 02:50:20 AM  
I see there was not enough room on-camera for his huge brass balls.
img.fark.net
 
drp
2013-06-15 02:57:23 AM  
Bah.  It was a nice speech.

Of course, US generals and admirals have been saying the same things since the day I first took .mil scholarship money in the 90s and climbed aboard.  It's just words.

Worse than that, it's the definition of insanity:  We've been saying these things, and having mandatory all-hands training plus online training multiple times annually.  We've watched videos produced with shakycams in garages, and polished mini-movies with production values that would put any after-school special to shame.  And it hasn't worked.  The problems with assault, harassment, and coverups are as bad as ever.

Solution?  Do more all-hands training and give more speeches.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome ... the definition of insanity.

Maybe something should change.  Instead we get generals and admirals testifying before the Senate shooting down the idea of moving investigations and prosecutions outside the chain of command.  That might've made a difference.

Coincidentally, our command was notified two days ago that a new batch of mandatory all-hands training had to be completed within 48 hours.  In a couple hours I'll go sit through this bullshiat one more time.

And nothing will change, because it's easier for leaders to pretend to care, check a box, wash their hands of it, and say "b-b-b-but loooook, we did all we could, it's not MY fault, you can give me another star!"

Pardon me if I'm not moved by a general giving a speech, however well choreographed, well spoken, and well written it was.  I've heard it before.  The only thing different about this is that it's an Australian's lips moving this time.
 
2013-06-15 03:01:36 AM  
Details.
/You may have a threat of a paywall
//it doesn't work.
///Shh!
 
2013-06-15 03:17:05 AM  

starsrift: It's because men don't see verbal abuse and condescension in the workplace...


I think attributing the attitudes of <i>some</i> men to <i>all</i> might have undercut that particular point you're trying to make right there. (Not that its not a valid point about some men I've worked with).
 
2013-06-15 03:21:15 AM  

gwowen: starsrift: It's because men don't see verbal abuse and condescension in the workplace...

I think attributing the attitudes of <i>some</i> men to <i>all</i> might have undercut that particular point you're trying to make right there. (Not that its not a valid point about some men I've worked with).


EVERY MAN EVAR
 
2013-06-15 03:27:02 AM  
That was gay as fark. Just let the women do the fighting if they want to go to an all men place and then biatch when they get farked.
 
2013-06-15 03:49:03 AM  

drp: Bah.  It was a nice speech.

Of course, US generals and admirals have been saying the same things since the day I first took .mil scholarship money in the 90s and climbed aboard.  It's just words.

...

And nothing will change, because it's easier for leaders to pretend to care, check a box, wash their hands of it, and say "b-b-b-but loooook, we did all we could, it's not MY fault, you can give me another star!"

Pardon me if I'm not moved by a general giving a speech, however well choreographed, well spoken, and well written it was.  I've heard it before.  The only thing different about this is that it's an Australian's lips moving this time.



One key difference is that the Australian army is actually investingating instead of blaming the victim and reporting it to the press instead of covering it up.
 
2013-06-15 03:54:22 AM  

Yes this is dog: One key difference is that the Australian army is actually investingating instead of blaming the victim and reporting it to the press instead of covering it up. a military, not a politically driven social experiment

 
drp
2013-06-15 03:56:50 AM  

Yes this is dog: One key difference is that the Australian army is actually investingating instead of blaming the victim and reporting it to the press instead of covering it up.


Yeah, could be I guess.  Hope so.  Maybe they'll get a grip on it and our side will learn something.
 
2013-06-15 03:58:12 AM  
Sweet jesus, that was boring
 
2013-06-15 04:07:45 AM  

LDM90: Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.


The shooting is agreed upon beforehand.
 
2013-06-15 04:10:30 AM  
Christ, I'd probably squat and pee on the rug if that guy walked in my door right now. Notice how his stare is unwavering and the blinks seem only begrudgingly made of biological necessity.

/Australia is one of the few places I've never been, and would love to go some day
//Did date an Australian girl, though, so give me that
 
2013-06-15 04:11:02 AM  

drp: Bah.  It was a nice speech.

Of course, US generals and admirals have been saying the same things since the day I first took .mil scholarship money in the 90s and climbed aboard.  It's just words.

Worse than that, it's the definition of insanity:  We've been saying these things, and having mandatory all-hands training plus online training multiple times annually.  We've watched videos produced with shakycams in garages, and polished mini-movies with production values that would put any after-school special to shame.  And it hasn't worked.  The problems with assault, harassment, and coverups are as bad as ever.

Solution?  Do more all-hands training and give more speeches.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome ... the definition of insanity.

Maybe something should change.  Instead we get generals and admirals testifying before the Senate shooting down the idea of moving investigations and prosecutions outside the chain of command.  That might've made a difference.

Coincidentally, our command was notified two days ago that a new batch of mandatory all-hands training had to be completed within 48 hours.  In a couple hours I'll go sit through this bullshiat one more time.

And nothing will change, because it's easier for leaders to pretend to care, check a box, wash their hands of it, and say "b-b-b-but loooook, we did all we could, it's not MY fault, you can give me another star!"

Pardon me if I'm not moved by a general giving a speech, however well choreographed, well spoken, and well written it was.  I've heard it before.  The only thing different about this is that it's an Australian's lips moving this time.


I have heard everything he said before, it's true.

Except "If you don't like it, then get out."

I've never heard ANYONE say that before, in this context. Never. Never ever. Not from the best military in the world to the sleaziest two-bit security guard outfit: Never. And for that alone, this guy deserves major props in my book.
 
2013-06-15 04:15:40 AM  

Spanky McStupid: buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.

"The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."    Damned skippy!


That's the line that caught my attention too. Live by it, no matter your career.
 
2013-06-15 04:39:56 AM  
I guess that there are real leaders in the Australian Army as opposed to the service men in the US who are incapable of not raping women (according to conservative legislators).  Just like Ollie North painted all Marines as liars, the current crop of servicemen and conservatives legislators are showing that ALL servicemen are rapists.

If you are incapable a policing yourselves, then you truly deserve to ALL be regarded as rapists.

As far as I know, the last service man to take the high road was Pat Tillman, and he was shot in the back by an American rapist.
 
2013-06-15 04:52:34 AM  

rosebud_the_sled: I guess that there are real leaders in the Australian Army as opposed to the service men in the US who are incapable of not raping women (according to conservative legislators).  Just like Ollie North painted all Marines as liars, the current crop of servicemen and conservatives legislators are showing that ALL servicemen are rapists.

If you are incapable a policing yourselves, then you truly deserve to ALL be regarded as rapists.

As far as I know, the last service man to take the high road was Pat Tillman, and he was shot in the back by an American rapist.


Wow. You're a farking nutjob.
 
2013-06-15 05:06:18 AM  

ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.


You're obviously unaware of their record in WW1 and WW2, as well as Korea. They pretty much are the world's nastiest badasses. Same with Canucks. We grow up in a country where the outside air temperature alone will kill you dead in minutes. Compared with that, bullets? Meh.
 
2013-06-15 05:11:52 AM  
Ours is a civilian controlled military.  It's hard enough trying to train the GOP that rape and sexual discrimination in general is bad and should be stopped...now imagine what their reaction will be to trying to change the "traditions" in their favorite institution that can do no wrong.
 
2013-06-15 05:24:11 AM  

wumpus: If that does not suit you, then get out


And just as soon as we stop treating our servicemen like slaves (i.e. not allowed to quit) instead of the professionals they are, that sentiment will be worth something. Until then it's a bit of a mixed message.
 
2013-06-15 05:32:04 AM  

The Haberdasher: As an aside. If you have women, men, and the gay in the military, then why are there separate showers, bunkers, and quarters for different sexes?


Because it conveniently separates most people by gender preference, and universally separates by plumbing equipment presence.
 
2013-06-15 05:34:28 AM  

profplump: wumpus: If that does not suit you, then get out

And just as soon as we stop treating our servicemen like slaves (i.e. not allowed to quit) instead of the professionals they are, that sentiment will be worth something. Until then it's a bit of a mixed message.


You obviously do not understand the need to not allowing servicemen to quit, do you?
 
2013-06-15 05:36:31 AM  

The Haberdasher: As an aside. If you have women, men, and the gay in the military, then why are there separate showers, bunkers, and quarters for different sexes?


Those are separate? Wow.
 
2013-06-15 05:39:45 AM  

ThatDarkFellow: What happens to those that get out of the army because they disagree? Just discharged (dishonorably?) not sure how things work over there. Seems to be a simple way to get out if you don't want to be there, just act like an asshole.


Yeah let's just say that disobeying a direct order results in a little worse than a slap on the wrist, shall we?
 
2013-06-15 05:40:39 AM  

ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.


"some of the sheep"
 
2013-06-15 05:43:04 AM  
Dang, I've done nothing wrong, and even I feel an intense pressure from watching that video.
 
2013-06-15 05:54:51 AM  
That was magnificent.

Upsets me that the US military continues to fail at this message.
 
2013-06-15 06:23:38 AM  
I saw that guy blink only twice during the speech.
 
2013-06-15 06:24:32 AM  
You know what makes this a thousand times worse for those who really do get raped and harassed?

The liars. The people who make false accusations to get back at someone or for attention. I've witnessed multiple instances of female soldiers making up harassment stories, including one "rape", either to get back at someone who pissed them off, or to avoid the shame of having consented to sex with someone. Only multiple eyewitnesses in one case plus surveillance camera footage in two others showed these females to be lying.

I don't know how often rapes actually happen or harassment/offensive actions. But I can say with a high degree of certainty that liars are a lot more common. And they ruin it for the ones who actually do get assaulted or harassed. It sucks but it's true. Once people hear "he came onto me" or "he told a joke I didn't like" over and over and over, with each case ending up being a bunch of horseshiat, when the real assault does happen, people are a lot more skeptical.

Yes sexual harassment happens. And those who commit it should be punished. Yes rape does happen, and those who commit that should (IMO) be shot. But the lying and false accusations need to stop, and that is a far more widespread problem. Too many soldiers (mostly females from what I've seen) see the "file an EO complaint" as a quick ticket to getting their way.

Promote me or I'll say you touched my ass. Say something negative about something I'm legitimately bad at and I'll tell the SARC that you hit on me. If I overhear you say that PT standards between men and women should be the same, I'll complain you're a sexist

That shiat happens every day, and females know they can get away with it and get people (minimally in most cases) punished for pissing them off. It's an easy way to use the Army system to get someone in trouble for nothing. The problem is that Commanders and SARC/EO reps get inundated with these BS claims, and the real rapes and realharassment just become a speck of sand on a beach. And the real rapists thrive in an environment where they know their real crimes will just look like the rest of the BS.
 
2013-06-15 06:28:42 AM  
You know what I hate more than sexual harassment?
Video after the jump!

/ffffuuuu
 
2013-06-15 06:39:02 AM  

Yes this is dog: One key difference is that the Australian army is actually investingating instead of blaming the victim and reporting it to the press instead of covering it up.


I guess in Australia, everything being backwards, rape is considered bad and treated as the crime it is, there?

(I think I just threw up in my mouth even trying to make a joke about that. Seriously--how is the entire US military leadership so okay with rape, especially of their own men and women?)
 
2013-06-15 06:54:16 AM  
People here tend to forget two things:
1. The military is not politics
2. The military is part of politics.

Militaries are projections of political will against other nations by force. Basically, they kill people and blow sh*t up to enact the will of that country's people and politicians, whether that will is good or evil. This is not an indictment of the military (spent 6 years in), but a fact.

Politics on the other hand is a totally different animal. To all you people falling at this officer's feet, remember that while this commander's message and methods may work for a military organization, they would not stand the same scrutiny when applied to civilians.  While I wish that people who sexually harass others in the civilian world could be pimp-slapped with extreme prejudice, you can't "kick people out" of civilian life - unless you put them in prison.

I for one do not want politicians that acted like some of the commanding officers I served under. That would be very, very dangerous. The "owning up" and "clear message" comments don't work out here, because you are dealing with civilians, and sometimes the direct approach is not the best approach.
 
2013-06-15 06:56:43 AM  

taurusowner: I don't know how often rapes actually happen or harassment/offensive actions. But I can say with a high degree of certainty that liars are a lot more common.


Citation needed, because I'm pretty sure reality indicates that you could not possibly be more wrong.

Also, if you don't like rape, consider not blaming the victims of rape or sexual harassment or assault.
 
2013-06-15 07:15:04 AM  

Infernalist: I'm an American going past 40 and right now, I want to head down to the recruiter's office and sign up for the Aussie Army.


I want to defend Australia, and I am a Yank.
 
2013-06-15 07:24:58 AM  
THIS is why the Australian military deserves every bit of its reputation.  Sadly, not a SINGLE American officer with stars on his or her shoulders has the balls to say this.
 
2013-06-15 07:39:01 AM  
Only thing missing - "What is your major malfunction numb nuts?"
 
Displayed 50 of 189 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report