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(Talking Points Memo)   Attention, Generals. Don't like sexual harassment? Want to send a message? This is how it's done   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 189
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27579 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 11:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 11:14:42 PM
Great find, submitter.
 
2013-06-14 11:14:55 PM
Boobies
 
2013-06-14 11:17:27 PM
Pics?
 
2013-06-14 11:18:50 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Great find, submitter.


Absolutely, this.
 
2013-06-14 11:18:52 PM
Sheila, take a bow
 
2013-06-14 11:19:02 PM
croikey
 
2013-06-14 11:19:23 PM
Awesome
 
2013-06-14 11:20:01 PM
userserve-ak.last.fm
 
2013-06-14 11:21:01 PM
Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.
 
2013-06-14 11:21:25 PM
Good on ya, Bruce
 
2013-06-14 11:21:49 PM
US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.
 
2013-06-14 11:22:30 PM
needed to end it with a "harden the fark up"

well said.
 
2013-06-14 11:22:30 PM
This. This is how every decent, self-respecting military and/or police officer and leader should be addressing any acts of wrong doing by their own. instead of stone-walling, or covering it up.
 
2013-06-14 11:24:00 PM
I'm not gay, but I think I'm in love.
 
2013-06-14 11:24:05 PM
And after you do this, fix the suicide issue!
 
2013-06-14 11:25:02 PM
As an aside. If you have women, men, and the gay in the military, then why are there separate showers, bunkers, and quarters for different sexes?
 
2013-06-14 11:25:15 PM
Memo to our Armed Forces:  THAT...IS HOW IT'S FARKING DONE~!

That is all.
 
2013-06-14 11:25:27 PM
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-06-14 11:26:41 PM
"then get out" good
 
2013-06-14 11:27:09 PM
Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.
 
2013-06-14 11:27:43 PM

buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.


FTFM. I was Admiral Mike Mullen, not Mc Mullen.
 
2013-06-14 11:28:47 PM
General: That's not a video, mate. This is a video.
 
2013-06-14 11:29:02 PM
Since None teen niney nyone?  14 years?

God on ya General!
 
2013-06-14 11:29:09 PM
I'm an American going past 40 and right now, I want to head down to the recruiter's office and sign up for the Aussie Army.
 
2013-06-14 11:29:43 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Great find, submitter.


Also, thank you.  Most kind.  :-)
 
2013-06-14 11:30:11 PM
Well done Mate... Well done indeed.
 
2013-06-14 11:30:51 PM

Bucky Katt: "then get out" good


mimg.ugo.com
 
2013-06-14 11:33:23 PM
Blimey.
 
2013-06-14 11:33:32 PM
I'm sure he said something great, but I I hear in that accent is "You call that a knife?".
 
2013-06-14 11:35:26 PM

buzzcut73: buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.

FTFM. I was Admiral Mike Mullen, not Mc Mullen.


You were Admiral Mike Mullen?
 
2013-06-14 11:37:22 PM

liquidpoo: And after you do this, fix the suicide issue!


When i was in the service most of that issue was produced by sources outside the military. That being said they need to stick to training people to recognize the symptoms of depression and make sure that seeking counseling doesn't have an adverse effect on someones career barring serious safety concerns brought up by the counselors and or chaplains.
 
2013-06-14 11:37:52 PM
Too bad it's nearly impossible to say 'fark it, I quit'. Well, at least when I was in.
 
2013-06-14 11:38:54 PM
God damn, that guy is cool.

Can we just hire him to be in charge of the US military?
 
2013-06-14 11:39:29 PM

ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.


We are. We just just bang on about it like others do. Our military record is pretty good and our troops, especially our SAS, have a higher rate of effectiveness than others. We're also better liked than other other English speaking allies.

/true story.
 
2013-06-14 11:40:56 PM

buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.


"The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."    Damned skippy!
 
2013-06-14 11:41:13 PM
Must... buy.... Energizer.... brand.... batteries....
 
2013-06-14 11:41:26 PM
Damn.
That was impressive.
 
2013-06-14 11:43:42 PM

deforge: This. This is how every decent, self-respecting military and/or police officer and leader should be addressing any acts of wrong doing by their own. instead of stone-walling, or covering it up.


This is the speech I hope to hear every time wrongdoing is exposed. Especially the part about ignoring bad behaviour = condoning it.

Dear leaders: every time you stonewall or make excuses, I know that it's because you're not upset at the action, you're upset that someone got caught. Knock it off and own up to your shiat for once.
 
2013-06-14 11:44:47 PM
This is how it should be in any organization.
 
2013-06-14 11:45:50 PM
I like this guy, not a lot of ambiguity in him, a clean, clear message.

The USA could use a few like him in top leadership.
 
2013-06-14 11:47:01 PM
I would like to have this man's babies.

That is all.
 
2013-06-14 11:48:39 PM

buzzcut73: get out if you can't handle it


I'm outside and still don't know if I can come back inside yet.

/feel bad, and I'm not even in the ADF.
 
2013-06-14 11:49:01 PM
What happens to those that get out of the army because they disagree? Just discharged (dishonorably?) not sure how things work over there. Seems to be a simple way to get out if you don't want to be there, just act like an asshole.
 
2013-06-14 11:50:38 PM
Mathilda is a biatch
 
2013-06-14 11:51:37 PM
He does have that leadership vibe.
 
2013-06-14 11:53:09 PM

daisygrrl: I would like to have this man's babies.

That is all.


Call him up. Offer to write his biography.
 
2013-06-14 11:54:15 PM

ThatDarkFellow: What happens to those that get out of the army because they disagree? Just discharged (dishonorably?) not sure how things work over there. Seems to be a simple way to get out if you don't want to be there, just act like an asshole.


I don't know how it works in the Australian army, but in the US you can just decline to sign your reenlistment papers. The US military will oblige you, especially if you are a senior NCO that has less than 20 years in if you decide you can't deal with not exposing the service to that kind of bad publicity for your next term...because as a bonus you don't get retirement.
 
2013-06-14 11:55:17 PM
Very well articulated. "If that does not suit you, then get out"
 
2013-06-14 11:57:13 PM
I just shiat my pants in fear and I'm not even in Australia.
 
2013-06-14 11:57:18 PM

Dear Jerk: He does have that leadership vibe.


I think the secret is to blink at a rate 4 times slower than everyone else.
 
2013-06-14 11:57:31 PM

LDM90: Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.


Why yes, yes that's it exactly.
 
2013-06-14 11:58:22 PM
Day-um!  I wish the US's generals would do that - but they'd be sued for threatening posture in a video or something.
 
2013-06-14 11:58:42 PM
I was actually waiting for him to show a cute animation of an officer shooting the balls (or boobs) off of the sex abusers.
 
2013-06-15 12:00:40 AM
Was that so goddamned difficult to articulate?
 
2013-06-15 12:01:53 AM
Wow, now that's a general who is also a leader.
/nice find for sure, wow
 
2013-06-15 12:05:17 AM
"If that does not suit you, then get out"

It gets better from there. Can we please get this guy here?
 
2013-06-15 12:06:19 AM
Can we hire this guy... for Congress?
 
2013-06-15 12:06:21 AM
GD that's awesome...
 
2013-06-15 12:06:57 AM
He's no Sun Tzu.

"Don't like it then get out?" more like "Don't like it? I wouldn't invest in any hats."
 
2013-06-15 12:07:38 AM

LDM90: Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.


Duh durr hurr durr, hurr durr durr hurr.
 
2013-06-15 12:08:33 AM

Arkanaut: buzzcut73: buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.

FTFM. I was Admiral Mike Mullen, not Mc Mullen.

You were Admiral Mike Mullen?


Not anymore.  Now another guy is doing it.
 
2013-06-15 12:08:57 AM

browntimmy: Dear Jerk: He does have that leadership vibe.

I think the secret is to blink at a rate 4 times slower than everyone else.


No doubt. Also a cool demeanor, an articulate, principled message with clear consequences and above all, the authority.
But you have to wonder, he said that he has stated this message many times. Haven't people been taking him seriously?
 
2013-06-15 12:11:45 AM
It's about time. When I was in Basic Training in 1979, we had one female platoon and three male platoons in our company. We were required to receive a two-hour block of instruction on rape prevention. The females were instructed on how to prevent rape, and the males were instructed on what to do when accused, and how to beat the rap.
 
2013-06-15 12:12:01 AM

Stoker: Can we hire this guy... for Congress?


This guy wouldn't cut it in the US government. I suspect that he doesn't put up with lying and bullshiat.
 
2013-06-15 12:14:01 AM
Wow, I almost forgot what a leader sounded like.
 
2013-06-15 12:14:09 AM
If you don't like it, you get...

dr.jeebus.sydlexia.com

..a booting!
 
2013-06-15 12:14:36 AM
Lt. General David Morrison - well done sir.
 
2013-06-15 12:19:41 AM
I'm not Australian. I'm not military. But I just got told. That behavior you walk past is the behavior you accept. Damn straight
 
2013-06-15 12:21:26 AM
I'd rather be marching up and down the square
 
2013-06-15 12:23:48 AM
That man did not blink one time during that entire speech
 
2013-06-15 12:29:22 AM

Bucky Katt: "then get out" good


That was awesome. And that guy almost owes me a new keyboard.

/note to self: Never eat or drink while reading Fark.
 
2013-06-15 12:31:32 AM

Oh_Enough_Already: Women:

"We wanna be soldiers! We wanna be soldiers!  We wanna be soldiers!
We're just as tough as men! We're just as tough as men! We're just as tough as men!"

Joins military, gets treated just as shiatty as any man:

"Wah, they were mean to us! Make them be nice! We're just delicate women who need special protection!"


2/10.  You'll get a few bites.
 
2013-06-15 12:31:40 AM
People who want to elect this guy to something need to keep in mind that the military is a different animal than politics. Military leadership is authoritarian. Political leadership is about figuring out where the people are going and then getting in front of them. It's a good idea to start these kinds of cultural changes in the military. It's easier. I wouldn't be shocked if the message originated with politicians and they had the general deliver it.

Also, people who like this kind of thing are free to join the military.

One of my points is we would have better politicians if we had a better populace.
 
2013-06-15 12:32:40 AM

zerkalo: I'm not Australian. I'm not military. But I just got told. That behavior you walk past is the behavior you accept. Damn straight

-=-
Hmm, did you now. Do you have something you'd like to share with us?
 
2013-06-15 12:35:02 AM
The only thing I previously knew about the Aussie Army was from And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda.  Put the two things together and I'd say they're a bunch of badasses.

/'never knew there were worse things than dying'
 
2013-06-15 12:36:52 AM
Didn't blink... be frightened of that man.
 
2013-06-15 12:36:57 AM
The behavior you walk past is the behavior you accept

We have a similar saying in the USA. Snitches get stitches.
 
2013-06-15 12:37:12 AM
Brilliant!!...and now for the American rationalizations about why this can't be done in the US Army...4 -3 -2 -1....GO!
 
2013-06-15 12:39:13 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh_Enough_Already: Women:

"We wanna be soldiers! We wanna be soldiers!  We wanna be soldiers!
We're just as tough as men! We're just as tough as men! We're just as tough as men!"

Joins military, gets treated just as shiatty as any man:

"Wah, they were mean to us! Make them be nice! We're just delicate women who need special protection!"

2/10.  You'll get a few bites.


I'd go for 4 maybe 5 out of 10 because of that sprinkling of honesty to season the bait.
 
2013-06-15 12:40:42 AM

Stoker: zerkalo: I'm not Australian. I'm not military. But I just got told. That behavior you walk past is the behavior you accept. Damn straight
-=-
Hmm, did you now. Do you have something you'd like to share with us?


Yes. Yes I did. Told I did.

or have you something useful to ask?
 
2013-06-15 12:46:00 AM
Now that guy is a commander worthy of respect.
 
2013-06-15 12:46:57 AM
He could be like super special forces at the U.N.
 
2013-06-15 12:52:54 AM
Your punishment in the Aussie Army is to go into that man's office and explain why you shouldn't be punished.

Then  he kills you.
 
2013-06-15 12:52:54 AM

bmwericus:

I like this guy, not a lot of ambiguity in him, a clean, clear message.

The USA could use a few like him in top leadership.

Actually, we have them.  Fewer all the time, though, as Obama is "cleaning house" of generals who would refuse to fire upon American citizens.  Those people, by and large, are the ones like Lt. General Morrison.
 
2013-06-15 12:59:41 AM
BZ, General.
 
2013-06-15 01:01:47 AM
So uhh... what happened?
Sounds like naked pictures or something?
 
2013-06-15 01:07:14 AM

God-is-a-Taco: So uhh... what happened?
Sounds like naked pictures or something?


I'm glad I'm not the only person who's apparently been living under a rock. WTF happened? Did they tweet nude pictures of Barbra Streisand?

Eww...
 
2013-06-15 01:07:35 AM
Big brass ones.
How do we recruit this guy for the US?
 
in
2013-06-15 01:07:36 AM
This guy is a champ. Cue political career in 3, 2, 1...
 
2013-06-15 01:08:31 AM
"It's a pigs life,uh, mans life in the Australian army".jpg
 
2013-06-15 01:09:25 AM

daisygrrl: I would like to have this man's babies.

That is all.


Your sexual harassment will not be tolerated.
 
2013-06-15 01:10:12 AM
Straight talk + 1000 yard stare = leadership
 
2013-06-15 01:10:30 AM

GeneralJim: bmwericus: I like this guy, not a lot of ambiguity in him, a clean, clear message.

The USA could use a few like him in top leadership.
Actually, we have them.  Fewer all the time, though, as Obama is "cleaning house" of generals who would refuse to fire upon American citizens.  Those people, by and large, are the ones like Lt. General Morrison.


Stick to debunking global warming, "General". We haven't had a purge any time recently.
 
2013-06-15 01:24:28 AM
How is armmy formed? How can guy get comishuned?
 
2013-06-15 01:27:21 AM
Wow. I'm not in the military, but I am a female in a male-dominated industry. I know for a fact that there are sexist arseholes in my place of employment who treat me like I'm an idiot because I'm a girl who is younger than them. A few weeks ago, after a long time working up the courage, I finally brought my concern to my boss. His exact response was, "well, what do you want ME to do about it?" That hurt, perhaps even worse than being mistreated in the first place.

With that recent experience in my mind, this video brought tears to my eyes. Well done, Australian Armed Forces. When you get the morale-sinking arseholes out of the way, your good employees, soldiers, whomever, can do their best work and reach their fullest potential, rather than stress about being treated in a disrespectful manner. And I'm not just talking about men who disrespect women. I'm talking about anyone who willfully makes work unnecessarily awful for anyone else.

/that was a good rant
//feeling better already
 
2013-06-15 01:29:27 AM
It was like getting a tall cold glass of fresh milk after having to drink reconstituted powdered milk warm for months.

 Logical, honest, articulate...dang, we need to *demand* this of our leaders.

/we won't because we're too concerned with "winning" pointless political arguments.
//but it would be nice.
 
2013-06-15 01:29:44 AM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: I'm not gay, but I think I'm in love.


...and apparently I have daddy issues too.

/That was farking badass.
 
2013-06-15 01:41:32 AM
Pretty Gottverdammt much. Good on him, and good on the Aussies for such leadership.
 
2013-06-15 01:50:47 AM

Gyrfalcon: Your punishment in the Aussie Army is to go into that man's office and explain why you shouldn't be punished.

Then  he kills you.


Chuck Norris could learn a thing or two from this guy.

/Bravo.
 
2013-06-15 01:57:41 AM
That was outstanding.
 
2013-06-15 01:59:41 AM
The bit about standing up to those who show strength through humiliation sort of precludes drill sergeants.
 
2013-06-15 02:02:04 AM
Proper use of "hero" tag...check.
 
2013-06-15 02:05:29 AM
Man.  I feel ashamed.
 
2013-06-15 02:07:21 AM

Iplaybass: ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.

We are. We just just bang on about it like others do. Our military record is pretty good and our troops, especially our SAS, have a higher rate of effectiveness than others. We're also better liked than other other English speaking allies.

/true story.


Us Marines have always liked you guys.
/
 
2013-06-15 02:11:09 AM

Snooki Punch: Wow. I'm not in the military, but I am a female in a male-dominated industry. I know for a fact that there are sexist arseholes in my place of employment who treat me like I'm an idiot because I'm a girl who is younger than them. A few weeks ago, after a long time working up the courage, I finally brought my concern to my boss. His exact response was, "well, what do you want ME to do about it?" That hurt, perhaps even worse than being mistreated in the first place.

With that recent experience in my mind, this video brought tears to my eyes. Well done, Australian Armed Forces. When you get the morale-sinking arseholes out of the way, your good employees, soldiers, whomever, can do their best work and reach their fullest potential, rather than stress about being treated in a disrespectful manner. And I'm not just talking about men who disrespect women. I'm talking about anyone who willfully makes work unnecessarily awful for anyone else.

/that was a good rant
//feeling better already


You shouldn't let your pretty little head get all upset like that, dear.
 
2013-06-15 02:11:15 AM

kyuzokai: The only thing I previously knew about the Aussie Army was from And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda.  Put the two things together and I'd say they're a bunch of badasses.

/'never knew there were worse things than dying'


Goddammit, I always get teary-eyed when I listen to that.  Why did I bloody click it???

Outstanding work there Lt. General.  By the way, to those of you who are curious as to what this is in response to, here you go.
 
2013-06-15 02:31:37 AM

daisygrrl: deforge: This. This is how every decent, self-respecting military and/or police officer and leader should be addressing any acts of wrong doing by their own. instead of stone-walling, or covering it up.

This is the speech I hope to hear every time wrongdoing is exposed. Especially the part about ignoring bad behaviour = condoning it.

Dear leaders: every time you stonewall or make excuses, I know that it's because you're not upset at the action, you're upset that someone got caught. Knock it off and own up to your shiat for once.


ALL OF THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-06-15 02:34:09 AM

buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.


Are you kidding? If a Joint Chief or any commander in the military put out a video like this there would calls from the right for them to resign, loud calls.
 
2013-06-15 02:37:16 AM

Snooki Punch: Wow. I'm not in the military, but I am a female in a male-dominated industry. I know for a fact that there are sexist arseholes in my place of employment who treat me like I'm an idiot because I'm a girl who is younger than them. A few weeks ago, after a long time working up the courage, I finally brought my concern to my boss. His exact response was, "well, what do you want ME to do about it?" That hurt, perhaps even worse than being mistreated in the first place.

With that recent experience in my mind, this video brought tears to my eyes. Well done, Australian Armed Forces. When you get the morale-sinking arseholes out of the way, your good employees, soldiers, whomever, can do their best work and reach their fullest potential, rather than stress about being treated in a disrespectful manner. And I'm not just talking about men who disrespect women. I'm talking about anyone who willfully makes work unnecessarily awful for anyone else.

/that was a good rant
//feeling better already


It's because men don't see verbal abuse and condescension in the workplace...
imgs.xkcd.com
... as a gender issue. Gender's just a way to differentiate, the abuse is gonna be there regardless of your chromosome pairing.
 
2013-06-15 02:38:23 AM
This was in response to "Alleged" sex tapes of unsuspecting women with officers and NCO's getting spread around the web. The ADF is working hard to reduce the arsehole element, particularly the ritual bastardisation in the academy. It almost got there, then this scandal broke. There is more than one Pissed off General on the hunt.
 
2013-06-15 02:39:57 AM
Seemed pretty boilerplate until "If that does not suit you, then get out." Dripping with venom.

umichtournament.wikispaces.com

/and rightfully so
 
2013-06-15 02:42:47 AM
Summary: criminals telling criminals that their criminal behavior will not be tolerated.

:-D
 
2013-06-15 02:46:11 AM
Can we steal the General from the Aussies? It was refreshing to see that he was not just a talking head like our senior military. It might have been just my perception, but throughout his entire speech he looked pissed. Like reaching through the intertubes and ripping someone's head off pissed.
 
2013-06-15 02:46:58 AM

LDM90: Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.


only if your the target
 
2013-06-15 02:50:01 AM
I thought he was going to start crying.  Them aussies are poofters.
 
2013-06-15 02:50:20 AM
I see there was not enough room on-camera for his huge brass balls.
img.fark.net
 
drp
2013-06-15 02:57:23 AM
Bah.  It was a nice speech.

Of course, US generals and admirals have been saying the same things since the day I first took .mil scholarship money in the 90s and climbed aboard.  It's just words.

Worse than that, it's the definition of insanity:  We've been saying these things, and having mandatory all-hands training plus online training multiple times annually.  We've watched videos produced with shakycams in garages, and polished mini-movies with production values that would put any after-school special to shame.  And it hasn't worked.  The problems with assault, harassment, and coverups are as bad as ever.

Solution?  Do more all-hands training and give more speeches.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome ... the definition of insanity.

Maybe something should change.  Instead we get generals and admirals testifying before the Senate shooting down the idea of moving investigations and prosecutions outside the chain of command.  That might've made a difference.

Coincidentally, our command was notified two days ago that a new batch of mandatory all-hands training had to be completed within 48 hours.  In a couple hours I'll go sit through this bullshiat one more time.

And nothing will change, because it's easier for leaders to pretend to care, check a box, wash their hands of it, and say "b-b-b-but loooook, we did all we could, it's not MY fault, you can give me another star!"

Pardon me if I'm not moved by a general giving a speech, however well choreographed, well spoken, and well written it was.  I've heard it before.  The only thing different about this is that it's an Australian's lips moving this time.
 
2013-06-15 03:01:36 AM
Details.
/You may have a threat of a paywall
//it doesn't work.
///Shh!
 
2013-06-15 03:17:05 AM

starsrift: It's because men don't see verbal abuse and condescension in the workplace...


I think attributing the attitudes of <i>some</i> men to <i>all</i> might have undercut that particular point you're trying to make right there. (Not that its not a valid point about some men I've worked with).
 
2013-06-15 03:21:15 AM

gwowen: starsrift: It's because men don't see verbal abuse and condescension in the workplace...

I think attributing the attitudes of <i>some</i> men to <i>all</i> might have undercut that particular point you're trying to make right there. (Not that its not a valid point about some men I've worked with).


EVERY MAN EVAR
 
2013-06-15 03:27:02 AM
That was gay as fark. Just let the women do the fighting if they want to go to an all men place and then biatch when they get farked.
 
2013-06-15 03:49:03 AM

drp: Bah.  It was a nice speech.

Of course, US generals and admirals have been saying the same things since the day I first took .mil scholarship money in the 90s and climbed aboard.  It's just words.

...

And nothing will change, because it's easier for leaders to pretend to care, check a box, wash their hands of it, and say "b-b-b-but loooook, we did all we could, it's not MY fault, you can give me another star!"

Pardon me if I'm not moved by a general giving a speech, however well choreographed, well spoken, and well written it was.  I've heard it before.  The only thing different about this is that it's an Australian's lips moving this time.



One key difference is that the Australian army is actually investingating instead of blaming the victim and reporting it to the press instead of covering it up.
 
2013-06-15 03:54:22 AM

Yes this is dog: One key difference is that the Australian army is actually investingating instead of blaming the victim and reporting it to the press instead of covering it up. a military, not a politically driven social experiment

 
drp
2013-06-15 03:56:50 AM

Yes this is dog: One key difference is that the Australian army is actually investingating instead of blaming the victim and reporting it to the press instead of covering it up.


Yeah, could be I guess.  Hope so.  Maybe they'll get a grip on it and our side will learn something.
 
2013-06-15 03:58:12 AM
Sweet jesus, that was boring
 
2013-06-15 04:07:45 AM

LDM90: Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.


The shooting is agreed upon beforehand.
 
2013-06-15 04:10:30 AM
Christ, I'd probably squat and pee on the rug if that guy walked in my door right now. Notice how his stare is unwavering and the blinks seem only begrudgingly made of biological necessity.

/Australia is one of the few places I've never been, and would love to go some day
//Did date an Australian girl, though, so give me that
 
2013-06-15 04:11:02 AM

drp: Bah.  It was a nice speech.

Of course, US generals and admirals have been saying the same things since the day I first took .mil scholarship money in the 90s and climbed aboard.  It's just words.

Worse than that, it's the definition of insanity:  We've been saying these things, and having mandatory all-hands training plus online training multiple times annually.  We've watched videos produced with shakycams in garages, and polished mini-movies with production values that would put any after-school special to shame.  And it hasn't worked.  The problems with assault, harassment, and coverups are as bad as ever.

Solution?  Do more all-hands training and give more speeches.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome ... the definition of insanity.

Maybe something should change.  Instead we get generals and admirals testifying before the Senate shooting down the idea of moving investigations and prosecutions outside the chain of command.  That might've made a difference.

Coincidentally, our command was notified two days ago that a new batch of mandatory all-hands training had to be completed within 48 hours.  In a couple hours I'll go sit through this bullshiat one more time.

And nothing will change, because it's easier for leaders to pretend to care, check a box, wash their hands of it, and say "b-b-b-but loooook, we did all we could, it's not MY fault, you can give me another star!"

Pardon me if I'm not moved by a general giving a speech, however well choreographed, well spoken, and well written it was.  I've heard it before.  The only thing different about this is that it's an Australian's lips moving this time.


I have heard everything he said before, it's true.

Except "If you don't like it, then get out."

I've never heard ANYONE say that before, in this context. Never. Never ever. Not from the best military in the world to the sleaziest two-bit security guard outfit: Never. And for that alone, this guy deserves major props in my book.
 
2013-06-15 04:15:40 AM

Spanky McStupid: buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.

"The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."    Damned skippy!


That's the line that caught my attention too. Live by it, no matter your career.
 
2013-06-15 04:39:56 AM
I guess that there are real leaders in the Australian Army as opposed to the service men in the US who are incapable of not raping women (according to conservative legislators).  Just like Ollie North painted all Marines as liars, the current crop of servicemen and conservatives legislators are showing that ALL servicemen are rapists.

If you are incapable a policing yourselves, then you truly deserve to ALL be regarded as rapists.

As far as I know, the last service man to take the high road was Pat Tillman, and he was shot in the back by an American rapist.
 
2013-06-15 04:52:34 AM

rosebud_the_sled: I guess that there are real leaders in the Australian Army as opposed to the service men in the US who are incapable of not raping women (according to conservative legislators).  Just like Ollie North painted all Marines as liars, the current crop of servicemen and conservatives legislators are showing that ALL servicemen are rapists.

If you are incapable a policing yourselves, then you truly deserve to ALL be regarded as rapists.

As far as I know, the last service man to take the high road was Pat Tillman, and he was shot in the back by an American rapist.


Wow. You're a farking nutjob.
 
2013-06-15 05:06:18 AM

ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.


You're obviously unaware of their record in WW1 and WW2, as well as Korea. They pretty much are the world's nastiest badasses. Same with Canucks. We grow up in a country where the outside air temperature alone will kill you dead in minutes. Compared with that, bullets? Meh.
 
2013-06-15 05:11:52 AM
Ours is a civilian controlled military.  It's hard enough trying to train the GOP that rape and sexual discrimination in general is bad and should be stopped...now imagine what their reaction will be to trying to change the "traditions" in their favorite institution that can do no wrong.
 
2013-06-15 05:24:11 AM

wumpus: If that does not suit you, then get out


And just as soon as we stop treating our servicemen like slaves (i.e. not allowed to quit) instead of the professionals they are, that sentiment will be worth something. Until then it's a bit of a mixed message.
 
2013-06-15 05:32:04 AM

The Haberdasher: As an aside. If you have women, men, and the gay in the military, then why are there separate showers, bunkers, and quarters for different sexes?


Because it conveniently separates most people by gender preference, and universally separates by plumbing equipment presence.
 
2013-06-15 05:34:28 AM

profplump: wumpus: If that does not suit you, then get out

And just as soon as we stop treating our servicemen like slaves (i.e. not allowed to quit) instead of the professionals they are, that sentiment will be worth something. Until then it's a bit of a mixed message.


You obviously do not understand the need to not allowing servicemen to quit, do you?
 
2013-06-15 05:36:31 AM

The Haberdasher: As an aside. If you have women, men, and the gay in the military, then why are there separate showers, bunkers, and quarters for different sexes?


Those are separate? Wow.
 
2013-06-15 05:39:45 AM

ThatDarkFellow: What happens to those that get out of the army because they disagree? Just discharged (dishonorably?) not sure how things work over there. Seems to be a simple way to get out if you don't want to be there, just act like an asshole.


Yeah let's just say that disobeying a direct order results in a little worse than a slap on the wrist, shall we?
 
2013-06-15 05:40:39 AM

ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.


"some of the sheep"
 
2013-06-15 05:43:04 AM
Dang, I've done nothing wrong, and even I feel an intense pressure from watching that video.
 
2013-06-15 05:54:51 AM
That was magnificent.

Upsets me that the US military continues to fail at this message.
 
2013-06-15 06:23:38 AM
I saw that guy blink only twice during the speech.
 
2013-06-15 06:24:32 AM
You know what makes this a thousand times worse for those who really do get raped and harassed?

The liars. The people who make false accusations to get back at someone or for attention. I've witnessed multiple instances of female soldiers making up harassment stories, including one "rape", either to get back at someone who pissed them off, or to avoid the shame of having consented to sex with someone. Only multiple eyewitnesses in one case plus surveillance camera footage in two others showed these females to be lying.

I don't know how often rapes actually happen or harassment/offensive actions. But I can say with a high degree of certainty that liars are a lot more common. And they ruin it for the ones who actually do get assaulted or harassed. It sucks but it's true. Once people hear "he came onto me" or "he told a joke I didn't like" over and over and over, with each case ending up being a bunch of horseshiat, when the real assault does happen, people are a lot more skeptical.

Yes sexual harassment happens. And those who commit it should be punished. Yes rape does happen, and those who commit that should (IMO) be shot. But the lying and false accusations need to stop, and that is a far more widespread problem. Too many soldiers (mostly females from what I've seen) see the "file an EO complaint" as a quick ticket to getting their way.

Promote me or I'll say you touched my ass. Say something negative about something I'm legitimately bad at and I'll tell the SARC that you hit on me. If I overhear you say that PT standards between men and women should be the same, I'll complain you're a sexist

That shiat happens every day, and females know they can get away with it and get people (minimally in most cases) punished for pissing them off. It's an easy way to use the Army system to get someone in trouble for nothing. The problem is that Commanders and SARC/EO reps get inundated with these BS claims, and the real rapes and realharassment just become a speck of sand on a beach. And the real rapists thrive in an environment where they know their real crimes will just look like the rest of the BS.
 
2013-06-15 06:28:42 AM
You know what I hate more than sexual harassment?
Video after the jump!

/ffffuuuu
 
2013-06-15 06:39:02 AM

Yes this is dog: One key difference is that the Australian army is actually investingating instead of blaming the victim and reporting it to the press instead of covering it up.


I guess in Australia, everything being backwards, rape is considered bad and treated as the crime it is, there?

(I think I just threw up in my mouth even trying to make a joke about that. Seriously--how is the entire US military leadership so okay with rape, especially of their own men and women?)
 
2013-06-15 06:54:16 AM
People here tend to forget two things:
1. The military is not politics
2. The military is part of politics.

Militaries are projections of political will against other nations by force. Basically, they kill people and blow sh*t up to enact the will of that country's people and politicians, whether that will is good or evil. This is not an indictment of the military (spent 6 years in), but a fact.

Politics on the other hand is a totally different animal. To all you people falling at this officer's feet, remember that while this commander's message and methods may work for a military organization, they would not stand the same scrutiny when applied to civilians.  While I wish that people who sexually harass others in the civilian world could be pimp-slapped with extreme prejudice, you can't "kick people out" of civilian life - unless you put them in prison.

I for one do not want politicians that acted like some of the commanding officers I served under. That would be very, very dangerous. The "owning up" and "clear message" comments don't work out here, because you are dealing with civilians, and sometimes the direct approach is not the best approach.
 
2013-06-15 06:56:43 AM

taurusowner: I don't know how often rapes actually happen or harassment/offensive actions. But I can say with a high degree of certainty that liars are a lot more common.


Citation needed, because I'm pretty sure reality indicates that you could not possibly be more wrong.

Also, if you don't like rape, consider not blaming the victims of rape or sexual harassment or assault.
 
2013-06-15 07:15:04 AM

Infernalist: I'm an American going past 40 and right now, I want to head down to the recruiter's office and sign up for the Aussie Army.


I want to defend Australia, and I am a Yank.
 
2013-06-15 07:24:58 AM
THIS is why the Australian military deserves every bit of its reputation.  Sadly, not a SINGLE American officer with stars on his or her shoulders has the balls to say this.
 
2013-06-15 07:39:01 AM
Only thing missing - "What is your major malfunction numb nuts?"
 
2013-06-15 07:53:46 AM

ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.


Whatever makes you think they aren't? Because, if you ask anyone "in the know", they are the most highly trained force of badassery around. Seriously - Australians teach other armies "how it's done properly".
 
2013-06-15 07:58:33 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.

Whatever makes you think they aren't? Because, if you ask anyone "in the know", they are the most highly trained force of badassery around. Seriously - Australians teach other armies "how it's done properly".


Israel might disagree.
 
2013-06-15 08:03:06 AM

ThatDarkFellow: What happens to those that get out of the army because they disagree? Just discharged (dishonorably?) not sure how things work over there. Seems to be a simple way to get out if you don't want to be there, just act like an asshole.


Well, the ones who are currently under investigation (for their little "boys' club" activities) are likely to face charges. So, there's that...

I saw this video yesterday, and what I kept thinking was: Boy, Lt General Morrison is PISSED OFF. The entire thing is an exercise in controlled fury.
 
2013-06-15 08:07:11 AM

Oh_Enough_Already: Women:

"We wanna be soldiers! We wanna be soldiers!  We wanna be soldiers!
We're just as tough as men! We're just as tough as men! We're just as tough as men!"

Joins military, gets treated just as shiatty as any man:

"Wah, they were mean to us! Make them be nice! We're just delicate women who need special protection!"


You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Seriously. You need a good arse-kicking, and I sincerely hope you manage to get it.
 
2013-06-15 08:19:55 AM

Lady Indica: RealFarknMcCoy2: ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.

Whatever makes you think they aren't? Because, if you ask anyone "in the know", they are the most highly trained force of badassery around. Seriously - Australians teach other armies "how it's done properly".

Israel might disagree.


Then Israel would be wrong.
 
2013-06-15 08:25:24 AM
Throughout history rape has been a tool of warfare. When an army doesn't have a war going on, what do they do? Turn on the civilian population and each other. That's why it's important to keep armies occupied. Why are we now trying to pretend armies aren't full of nasty people? I mean, I guess it's good that he's trying to change that, but good luck with changing a 5000 year old culture, bloke.
 
2013-06-15 08:36:12 AM

ongbok: buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.

Are you kidding? If a Joint Chief or any commander in the military put out a video like this there would calls from the right for them to resign, loud calls.


Nah - the left is all about sex; the right is all about money.
 
2013-06-15 08:40:25 AM

Clemkadidlefark: LDM90: Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.

Why yes, yes that's it exactly.


Some people just need killin'
 
2013-06-15 08:51:44 AM

LDM90: Throughout history rape has been a tool of warfare. When an army doesn't have a war going on, what do they do? Turn on the civilian population and each other. That's why it's important to keep armies occupied. Why are we now trying to pretend armies aren't full of nasty people? I mean, I guess it's good that he's trying to change that, but good luck with changing a 5000 year old culture, bloke.


Actually, large standing armies have been somewhat of an anomaly throughout history, simply because growing food was so labour-intensive. Even amongst the Romans, for a lot of Roman history the army was a citizen-army, who basically couldn't fight during planting and harvest. Only comparatively recently have large, standing professional armies been the norm, and then even in WW1 and WW2 the vast majority of soldiers were either conscripts or volunteers/reservists who basically stacked arms and left when peace was signed.
 
2013-06-15 09:02:44 AM

Snooki Punch: Wow. I'm not in the military, but I am a female in a male-dominated industry. I know for a fact that there are sexist arseholes in my place of employment who treat me like I'm an idiot because I'm a girl who is younger than them. A few weeks ago, after a long time working up the courage, I finally brought my concern to my boss. His exact response was, "well, what do you want ME to do about it?" That hurt, perhaps even worse than being mistreated in the first place.

With that recent experience in my mind, this video brought tears to my eyes. Well done, Australian Armed Forces. When you get the morale-sinking arseholes out of the way, your good employees, soldiers, whomever, can do their best work and reach their fullest potential, rather than stress about being treated in a disrespectful manner. And I'm not just talking about men who disrespect women. I'm talking about anyone who willfully makes work unnecessarily awful for anyone else.

/that was a good rant
//feeling better already


Suggestions on what to do.

1. In future situations where you report harassment to your boss and you get that question, the response should be "Thank you for your time." Your next step would be to send him/her an email thanking him/her for receiving your report of harassment and for him/her communicating to you that he/she does not know the proper procedure. Inform him/her that you will be reporting the harassment to the next person up the management chain. Also include that HR will be informed that he/she requires training on how to handle harassment reports.

2. For the report you already did, proceed directly to the next person up the chain.
 
2013-06-15 09:17:08 AM
That was fantastic. My grandfather had a deep respect for the Aussies after they rescued he and his B-17 crew in the Indonesian jungle in WWII. He never liked to talk about the war very much, but when he did, he heaped praise on his Australian friends.
 
2013-06-15 09:24:21 AM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: I'm not gay, but I think I'm in love.


Indeed. Someone put this guy on a ballot.
 
2013-06-15 09:32:14 AM
i2.listal.com
 
2013-06-15 09:46:42 AM
This is great PR and nothing more. If this general REALLY disliked it, the officers within his ranks, including officers close to him wouldn't have been engaging in such behavior to begin with.
 
2013-06-15 09:59:24 AM

Z1P2: This is great PR and nothing more. If this general REALLY disliked it, the officers within his ranks, including officers close to him wouldn't have been engaging in such behavior to begin with.


Susan Faludi describes the phenomenon in her book backlash pretty well.  Essentially, the irony is that MEN are culturally oppressed.  They are told NOT to cry, NOT to emote, NOT to feel.  Yet, we DO cry, emote, and feel.  Some men basically short-circuit as a result of feeling that who they naturally are is vile.

Enter the woman (giggity).  She represents their mothers, aunts, and other women from their pasts that helped them arrive at the secret self-revulsion.  So, naturally, a group of men in this position internally will set about taking out their confused repressed anger on this woman, whomever she may be at the time.

It's messed.  I know some people will call BS.  But I live this shiat.  I'm a 30 year old man with 3 daughters.  I LIVE IT.  I fight my past, my 'wiring' everyday.  Some days I kick myself's arse.  Others, I suck to be around.  Any self-aware man born in the 80s knows what I'm talking about.

/Good luck ridding the army of this.  There are more guys like this being created as we speak.
 
2013-06-15 10:31:24 AM

ILoveBurritos: Sometimes I wonder how the Australian army isn't the most highly trained force of badassery around. I mean, they may not have overtly hostile nabors...but mother nature is on constant attack with some abyssal nightmare mother nature dreamed up in her ferverish dreams.


God created Arrakis Australia to test the faithful.
 
2013-06-15 10:37:30 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: ThatDarkFellow: What happens to those that get out of the army because they disagree? Just discharged (dishonorably?) not sure how things work over there. Seems to be a simple way to get out if you don't want to be there, just act like an asshole.

Well, the ones who are currently under investigation (for their little "boys' club" activities) are likely to face charges. So, there's that...

I saw this video yesterday, and what I kept thinking was: Boy, Lt General Morrison is PISSED OFF. The entire thing is an exercise in controlled fury.


That's what I saw too, this guy is pissed.
I would hate to be first guy who has the charges stick, you know he is going to be sent directly to this guys office.
 
2013-06-15 11:17:58 AM

grokca: I would hate to be first guy who has the charges stick, you know he is going to be sent directly to this guys office.


Hell, I'd be scared to go to this guy's office to deliver paper clips.
 
2013-06-15 11:24:44 AM

ReverendJynxed: Didn't blink... be frightened of that man.


I hear if he stares at you long enough your head explodes.
 
2013-06-15 11:32:55 AM

Spanky McStupid: buzzcut73: US Armed Forces and Joint Chief of Staff, I highly encourage you to tape this with our sitting JCS delivering the same speech. There were ones similar to it on AFN delivered by Admiral Mc Mullen when I was serving as a contractor, but the 'get out if you can't handle it' part needs to be there. Do it, now.

"The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."    Damned skippy!


That quote and link to the video went up on my Facebook and Linked In and Twitter. Don't always live up to it myself, but we are only human.
 
2013-06-15 12:06:16 PM
We need more of this: individuals who will stand up and state what needs to be said point blank in no uncertain terms. Kudos to the General!
 
2013-06-15 12:06:33 PM

maddogdelta: Clemkadidlefark: LDM90: Harassment bad. Shooting people ok.

Why yes, yes that's it exactly.

Some people just need killin'


Let's get together and compare Lists.

(that ought to get a Special Mention at the NSA today)
 
2013-06-15 12:08:14 PM
Ah, yes, a cautionary tale on morality from a top-ranking baby killer. Plenty of boot lickers in this thread gobbling it up.
 
2013-06-15 12:39:14 PM

CowardlyLion: taurusowner: I don't know how often rapes actually happen or harassment/offensive actions. But I can say with a high degree of certainty that liars are a lot more common.

Citation needed, because I'm pretty sure reality indicates that you could not possibly be more wrong.

Also, if you don't like rape, consider not blaming the victims of rape or sexual harassment or assault.


Said like someone who's never spent a minute in the military. I'm in Kabul right now. Third deployment. Only been here 2 months and I've already witnessed 3 false accusations. It's not blaming the victim. It's blaming the fake victims who actually make it harder on the real victims. If no one tried to use harassment claims as a way to strike out at someone who pissed them off, or assault claims for attention or to cover up a shameful but 100% consensual encounter, then the real victims would get a lot more help and commands and CID would have more resources to go after the real scumbags. But each CID agent who is investigating a BS claim, and each soldier who files a bullshiat EO complaint just makes it harder on the real victims.
 
2013-06-15 12:51:16 PM
He doesn't blink ... not once.
 
2013-06-15 01:04:04 PM

Benjimin_Dover: Snooki Punch: Wow. I'm not in the military, but I am a female in a male-dominated industry. I know for a fact that there are sexist arseholes in my place of employment who treat me like I'm an idiot because I'm a girl who is younger than them. A few weeks ago, after a long time working up the courage, I finally brought my concern to my boss. His exact response was, "well, what do you want ME to do about it?" That hurt, perhaps even worse than being mistreated in the first place.

With that recent experience in my mind, this video brought tears to my eyes. Well done, Australian Armed Forces. When you get the morale-sinking arseholes out of the way, your good employees, soldiers, whomever, can do their best work and reach their fullest potential, rather than stress about being treated in a disrespectful manner. And I'm not just talking about men who disrespect women. I'm talking about anyone who willfully makes work unnecessarily awful for anyone else.

/that was a good rant
//feeling better already

Suggestions on what to do.

1. In future situations where you report harassment to your boss and you get that question, the response should be "Thank you for your time." Your next step would be to send him/her an email thanking him/her for receiving your report of harassment and for him/her communicating to you that he/she does not know the proper procedure. Inform him/her that you will be reporting the harassment to the next person up the management chain. Also include that HR will be informed that he/she requires training on how to handle harassment reports.

2. For the report you already did, proceed directly to the next person up the chain.


Excellent suggestions, Benjimin, but as a female who has spent her career in a male-domiated professions, I would add a few things:

For your own sanity, Snooki, you've got to develop a thicker skin.  And in the meantime, stand up for yourself.  Fight back.  While filing reports may help,
it also may not. Don't wait for others to protect you.

Once, when I was much younger & sweeter, I asked a much older colleague who was being dismissive what he would tell his daughter to do if a co-worker said something like that to her.  It worked like a charm.  This is a very non-confrontational way of defending yourself. As I got older, more confident & meaner, I came up with more direct approaches.  Just saying, "That was really dismissive, are you pissed at your wife or something?"  would let them know I wasn't an easy target. Humor is indispensable. Use it to disarm them &/or laugh at them when they do this.

It's a tough world out there & we chose professions dominated by men. But once you show them you can give as well as take, they are a hell of a lot more fun to work with than women.....
 
2013-06-15 01:20:17 PM
Dayum!
 
2013-06-15 01:43:15 PM
'Then get out.'

Daaaaaaaaaaamn.
 
2013-06-15 03:11:30 PM

Baron Krelve: Ah, yes, a cautionary tale on morality from a top-ranking baby killer. Plenty of boot lickers in this thread gobbling it up.


1/10. You forgot to hyphenise baby killer, you didn't use the adjectives "Fascist", "Nazi" or "Government hood", and there's not a single reference to the Nuremburg trials. Get a good night's sleep and try taking some multi-vitamins before posting.
 
2013-06-15 03:20:07 PM

drp: Bah.  It was a nice speech.

Of course, US generals and admirals have been saying the same things since the day I first took .mil scholarship money in the 90s and climbed aboard.  It's just words.

Worse than that, it's the definition of insanity:  We've been saying these things, and having mandatory all-hands training plus online training multiple times annually.  We've watched videos produced with shakycams in garages, and polished mini-movies with production values that would put any after-school special to shame.  And it hasn't worked.  The problems with assault, harassment, and coverups are as bad as ever.

Solution?  Do more all-hands training and give more speeches.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome ... the definition of insanity.

Maybe something should change.  Instead we get generals and admirals testifying before the Senate shooting down the idea of moving investigations and prosecutions outside the chain of command.  That might've made a difference.

Coincidentally, our command was notified two days ago that a new batch of mandatory all-hands training had to be completed within 48 hours.  In a couple hours I'll go sit through this bullshiat one more time.

And nothing will change, because it's easier for leaders to pretend to care, check a box, wash their hands of it, and say "b-b-b-but loooook, we did all we could, it's not MY fault, you can give me another star!"

Pardon me if I'm not moved by a general giving a speech, however well choreographed, well spoken, and well written it was.  I've heard it before.  The only thing different about this is that it's an Australian's lips moving this time.


The source of the problems you're describing all go back to recruitment.  The military is a cross-section of the rest of the population with a skew toward people from poorer families and those with a disposition toward sociopathic and/or violent behavior.  Until psychology advances and recruitment is scaled back to the point that these traits can be detected early, the military will never be completely free of people who can't control their urges (to sexually assault/harass someone, or wrongly use the system as a weapon).  The next time somebody tells you that the military is the "best and brightest" do me a favor and spit in their face.
 
2013-06-15 03:36:45 PM
So, why doesn't David Petraeus make a video like this?

Oh yea, because he doesn't give a shiat.
 
2013-06-15 03:37:30 PM

Arumat: drp: Bah.  It was a nice speech.

Of course, US generals and admirals have been saying the same things since the day I first took .mil scholarship money in the 90s and climbed aboard.  It's just words.

Worse than that, it's the definition of insanity:  We've been saying these things, and having mandatory all-hands training plus online training multiple times annually.  We've watched videos produced with shakycams in garages, and polished mini-movies with production values that would put any after-school special to shame.  And it hasn't worked.  The problems with assault, harassment, and coverups are as bad as ever.

Solution?  Do more all-hands training and give more speeches.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome ... the definition of insanity.

Maybe something should change.  Instead we get generals and admirals testifying before the Senate shooting down the idea of moving investigations and prosecutions outside the chain of command.  That might've made a difference.

Coincidentally, our command was notified two days ago that a new batch of mandatory all-hands training had to be completed within 48 hours.  In a couple hours I'll go sit through this bullshiat one more time.

And nothing will change, because it's easier for leaders to pretend to care, check a box, wash their hands of it, and say "b-b-b-but loooook, we did all we could, it's not MY fault, you can give me another star!"

Pardon me if I'm not moved by a general giving a speech, however well choreographed, well spoken, and well written it was.  I've heard it before.  The only thing different about this is that it's an Australian's lips moving this time.

The source of the problems you're describing all go back to recruitment.  The military is a cross-section of the rest of the population with a skew toward people from poorer families and those with a disposition toward sociopathic and/or violent behavior.  Until psychology advances and recruitment is scaled back to the point that thes ...


Kettle, meet pot.
 
2013-06-15 03:49:18 PM

Arumat: The military is a cross-section of the rest of the population with a skew toward people from poorer families and those with a disposition toward sociopathic and/or violent behavior.


Wow, I'm surprised you can even breath with all the smug around. Care to backup those wild ass assertions there? No, something from Media Matters won't count as a source.
 
2013-06-15 04:56:36 PM

taurusowner: Arumat: The military is a cross-section of the rest of the population with a skew toward people from poorer families and those with a disposition toward sociopathic and/or violent behavior.

Wow, I'm surprised you can even breath with all the smug around. Care to backup those wild ass assertions there? No, something from Media Matters won't count as a source.


Just anecdotal evidence from 6 years in the Air Force.
 
2013-06-15 06:07:10 PM

Noxious1: David Petraeus


More likely because he's been retired from the U.S. Army since August, 2011.
 
2013-06-15 06:52:08 PM

Sim Tree: General: That's not a video, mate. This is a video.


gaah, that was the headline I meant to write.

/subby
 
2013-06-15 07:23:33 PM

daisygrrl: deforge: This. This is how every decent, self-respecting military and/or police officer and leader should be addressing any acts of wrong doing by their own. instead of stone-walling, or covering it up.

This is the speech I hope to hear every time wrongdoing is exposed. Especially the part about ignoring bad behaviour = condoning it.

Dear leaders: every time you stonewall or make excuses, I know that it's because you're not upset at the action, you're upset that someone got caught. Knock it off and own up to your shiat for once.


Q. F. T.
 
2013-06-15 09:38:40 PM
Speaking as a Veteran, I for one would Not like to get on this man's bad side.

As for those service members found guilty of forcible rape, dancing a "Danny Deever" will put and end to that particular scums behavior.
 
2013-06-16 06:52:19 AM

Mock26: You obviously do not understand the need to not allowing servicemen to quit, do you?


That is correct, I do not.

I believe that the professional servicemen/women who protect me and many other do so because they believe their service is valuable, not because they are beholden to do so by law. I'd rather that any person who does not believe their service is properly valued does not "protect" me.

It's not at all clear to me how forcing unwilling "protectors" to defend me is a benefit to them or me. If you have any information that would enlighten me on this subject please feel free to share it.
 
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