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(CNN)   CIA to supply small arms to Syrian rebels. Because this worked so well in Afghanistan. And Beirut. And Nicaragua. And El Salvador. And   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, Secretary of State John Kerry, CIA, beer pongs, russian foreign ministry, Sergey Lavrov, national capitals, anti-tank weapons, boots on the ground  
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1641 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 7:31 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-06-14 08:31:45 PM  
4 votes:
I seriously wish we would mind our own farking business.  In Syria, no matter who wins, they will hate us.  The best outcome is both sides kill each other off.
2013-06-14 07:35:29 PM  
3 votes:
We have no business getting involved in a civil war.
2013-06-14 10:13:32 PM  
2 votes:

The Bestest: Arcanum: Obama has kept Gitmo open

It's not "Obama" keeping Gitmo open. Please stop that.


Yeah, of course it's Obama keeping Gitmo as a prison.  LOL at some people out there.  He's commander in chief and could easily move all these people wherever he wanted, or just give them a trial, or release them today.  Now Gitmo as a military base, you're right, in that less relevant sense Obama can't unilaterally close it anymore.

But Obama promised to close it pretty damn quick, and had years of majorities in congress and broke that promise.

Not that I'm complaining.  I support Obama keeping Gitmo open, and I support Obama's expansion of the Bush doctrine.  Drones make it much easier to kill terrorists in countries we are not technically at war with, and I support that too.  Obama is on the ball when it comes to killing bad guys.  I mean that sincerely.  Had I known I could vote to reelect the Bush foreign policy, I would have been happy to do so.
2013-06-14 08:49:42 PM  
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Do nothing: conservatives biatch
Arm the rebels: conservatives biatch

/I sense a pattern here


Democrats do something or do nothing, Republicans biatch
Republicans do something or do nothing, Democrats biatch
2013-06-14 08:17:46 PM  
2 votes:

Mrs.Sharpier: Over 90k have been killed there, we shouldn't wait until this gets to Bosnia levels horrible.


Except the rebels we are arming are just as bad, if not worse than, the Assad regime
2013-06-14 08:13:04 PM  
2 votes:

EdNortonsTwin: Giving Iranian mullahs and Hezbolla the finger by arming secular moderates seeeeeeems like a good idea.

A dark game, foreign policy is.


Part of me... for once... just doesn't care what happens there anymore.

Everything there, government-wise, involves some horrible stomping of the opposing view. They just don't get it.
2013-06-14 07:57:58 PM  
2 votes:
Giving Iranian mullahs and Hezbolla the finger by arming secular moderates seeeeeeems like a good idea.

A dark game, foreign policy is.
2013-06-14 07:49:44 PM  
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Do nothing: conservatives biatch
Arm the rebels: conservatives biatch

/I sense a pattern here


You really think this is a good idea? Or do you just feel like ignoring the bigger issue just to insult the other political team?
2013-06-14 07:43:16 PM  
2 votes:
If Assad's forces are using chemical weapons, the UN should intervene. We'd end up making up the lion's share of the forces and support, but at least it wouldn't be looked at as another American invasion.  Plus, it would make it easier to hand over maintenance of the area and get out sooner.
2013-06-14 07:42:41 PM  
2 votes:
I'm looking forward to all the jingoism and paranoia coming in the 2030's after the Syrian rebels attack the US, and the ensuing war with Egypt that the US starts for no God damned reason.
2013-06-14 07:37:51 PM  
2 votes:
believeinreason.com

Depressingly, Most voters in the next election won't recognize either of these people.
2013-06-14 07:00:02 PM  
2 votes:
Here's some actual analysis on this, The Syria Strategy Vacuum

The basics: What are the US goals? Looks like it comes down to two basic questions. Are we getting involved for 'humanitarian' reasons? or to spike Iran's wheel? We need to answer that question, before we do anything.
2013-06-15 12:05:40 AM  
1 vote:
You know there's no relation between us and our government, right?

None whatsoever. I take that back. You and I are lashed to the wheel to pay the vig for what 'they' do ...

How(uh) .. does(uh) .. that(uh) .. feel(uh) .. citizen(uh) .. it feels like you need to use more lube ...
2013-06-14 11:15:21 PM  
1 vote:

mbillips: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: We have no business getting involved in a civil war.

Good thing the French didn't make that call in 1777.


You do realize we were France's Afghanistan, right? That it was much cheaper to fight the English here, using us as fodder, than it was to fight them directly?

The comparison breaks down, of course, when you realize that, unlike the French, we didn't give a rat's rancid rectum about the Afghans - they were just a tool by which we were able to bankrupt the Soviets. We didn't exactly help them out after their war, while the French did give us a bit of support.

We don't give a rat's rancid rectum about Syria, or Islamist terrorist, for that matter - we just want Assad out of office to ensure more churn in the Middle East. So, sure, we'll happily send training, money, and weapons to Syrian rebels - so what if some of them are the same Islamist terrorists against which we claimed justification in bombing the hell out of Afghanistan, Iraq, parts of Pakistan, and so on.

Again, we don't care about terrorism - it's a pretext, something we use to further our aims. We're happy to assist terrorists if it means getting what we want. It's not like this is the first time we've done so.
2013-06-14 11:09:35 PM  
1 vote:

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: We have no business getting involved in a civil war.


Good thing the French didn't make that call in 1777.
2013-06-14 10:50:52 PM  
1 vote:

enemy of the state: The Bestest: machoprogrammer: You really think this is a good idea?

Here's the thing.. do I think its a good idea tactically? Hell no. Do I think it's a political necessity (globally.. taking action in Syria probably has more negatives than positives in domestic politics). Unfortunately yes.

I'm afraid you have me profoundly confused. How is this a political necessity? You mean it's a global necessity, but a "more negatives than positives" domestically?

How can this be a necessity either way? I have to say, I'm completely in the dark as to whether there are any good guys in this war. Assad seems to be quite the dirtbag, on the other hand, the Christians in Syria (10% of the population) support him, even though he's not exactly their best pal. The alternative in their eyes seems to be an Islamic state that will oppress them even more. Christians are fark's doormat, but I'm guessing that to Islamic states the entire West (and probably Japan) are Christians, or even worse, Jews.

Call me narrow minded, but I've come to feel the world is better off with non-religious dictators than with Islamofacist states, with Islamo-facist being more or less redundant, when you get right down to it. Of course, some Islamic states are much better than others.

Anyway, I don't see how the US comes out on top here. We have a shiatload to lose, and not a damn thing to gain as far as I can tell.

I've got sons who are 12 and 13. I'm actually worried that they're wind up being cannon fodder in this idiot war, or the next pointless war in the middle east the US waltzes into.


It's not about "good guys and bad guys"; quite frankly both 'sides' in this conflict (at least within Syria itself) are "bad guys". You have a government that has lost legitimacy and has shown disdain for the well-being of its own citizens and international convention on one side and rebels that have shown almost equal disdain (though they can claim it's out of desperation) and backed by/comprised of a theocratic movement.

The issue is global political capital and gamesmanship, and it's not that we necessarily have much to gain through action as it is we have more to lose through inaction. It may sound callous, since both the cost of and pieces in this game are "human capital", but it's all a big multiplayer game between the US, Russia and China, and their respective allies and proxies. It may not be "right", and it certainly isn't pretty, but it's the ugly way the world works.
2013-06-14 10:26:14 PM  
1 vote:

dookdookdook: [imageshack.com image 54x11]

The Syrian rebels don't seem to think they can defeat the Syrian military with small arms, which is odd, since Teabaggers seem convinced they can defeat the American military with small arms.


You might misunderstand the views of Tea Partiers.  There's apparently lot of fear of these guys, as we can see from the IRS's freaking out whenever they see anything coming close.

The second amendment goes back to the 1689 English Declaration of rights.  "That the Subjects, which are Protestants, may have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions, and as allowed by Law " was intended as a deterrence against government going too far.  Same, the second amendment is simply a deterrent.  What a miserable pain in the ass it would be to fight against the militia (civilian men of military age).  They have millions of guns.  I'm sure this is not just a deterrent to American abuses, but also a deterrent to foreign tyrants, such as during WWII.

Does the Tea Party talk about fighting the US Military?  I've never heard of that, but I'm sure there are a few kooks.  If anything, so much of the civilian volunteer military is likely to join the militia if anything like a civil war were to happen, though.

But the important thing to remember is that this is a theoretical deterrent, not a plan for an actual event.  It's like concealed carry on campus.  Few are saying they expect to whip out their gun and mow down a bad guy.  they are saying that the presence of an equalizer like a gun deters undesirable things.

Perhaps you disagree, which is fine with me.  I can see both sides of the argument because i understand both sides.  Much like President Obama, who understands the best arguments for condemning the Bush doctrine, and also the greater wisdom in following Bush's lead.
2013-06-14 10:08:21 PM  
1 vote:

Almost Everybody Poops: Arcanum: Remember when a lot of people scoffed that the Nobel Prize for Peace given to Obama, well before he had done anything at all?  It was hilarious.

Well, I guess that's over.  Peace through superior firepower.  Obama is doing the right thing, and it's good that the Nobel Prize is accidentally vindicated.  You don't end a war without winning it.

IIRC the nobel peace prize to Obama was basically a huge FU to Bush, not about Obama's actions.


True.  I guess Bush had the last laugh.  His policies have been vindicated by a nobel peace prize winner!  Obama has made it pretty damn hard to blame Bush for anything, given things are the same with or without him.
2013-06-14 09:44:01 PM  
1 vote:

Dinki: simplicimus: Arming Al-Qaeda? No downside here. And Putin has a good sense of humor, right.

Yes, because all the Syrian rebels are Al-Qeada.


Relatively few of the Egyptian rebels were fundamentalist Muslims, either.   And yet, they now run the country.  But I'm sure that the more organized and better funded segment of the rebel movement won't take power in Syria.  Couldn't possibly happen twice.  Right?
2013-06-14 09:37:19 PM  
1 vote:
Under the terms of the National Defense Authorization Act that he personally signed into law, President Barack Obama should immediately be arrested and indefinitely detained for providing support to Al-Qaeda terrorists in Syria.
2013-06-14 09:32:22 PM  
1 vote:

1.bp.blogspot.com

2013-06-14 09:31:53 PM  
1 vote:
The Nobel Peace Prize winner don't seem to have much of a plan.   He's getting treated like a chump by his friends.

"Obama should Resist the Clintons & Europe on Syria

Posted on 06/14/2013 by Juan Cole

Former president Bill Clinton  criticized President Obama on Thursday for his inaction in regard to Syria. This step seems extraordinary and surely has something to do with positioning Hillary Clinton to run as a more hawkish New Democrat against anyone in the Obama circle in 2016. As Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton appears to have pushed for arming the Syrian rebels, but could not get Obama's backing for the move. Bill Clinton's criticism is extremely unfair, since there are many bad situations in the world in which the US cannot fruitfully intervene, and Clinton knows this sad truth all too well..."


Resist the Clintons and Europe ?   No, he's too much of a wuss.
2013-06-14 09:18:48 PM  
1 vote:
To be fair subby, the CIA's actions in all of those vacation spots you mentioned ACTUALLY worked pretty well (as initially planned), it was the follow up they didn't do so well with....
2013-06-14 09:04:01 PM  
1 vote:

Vectron: Popular Opinion: so what if they used chemical weapons?

It's just war propaganda. They think we're stupid. It gave them an excuse to draw the line in the sand. Washington can now say, "it's not our fault. We didn't want war......They made us do it."

The first casualty in war is the truth.


War never changes.
2013-06-14 08:55:38 PM  
1 vote:

Popular Opinion: so what if they used chemical weapons?

nobody (now) seems to think Saddam's much wider use of chemical agents against his own citizens a Kurdish rebel uprising was worth acting on....


FTFY.
2013-06-14 08:51:45 PM  
1 vote:
Main boots on the ground, major legwork being down in Syria is being done by seasoned veterans who were blooded killing American troops in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. All of you who support the Islamists against Assad's secular government are no better than the people who flew planes into the World Trade Center.
2013-06-14 08:48:38 PM  
1 vote:
Here's a quick google for 'Syrian rebel atrocites'''. Come for the massacres of Christians and Shi ites, stay for the individual beheadings for blasphemy.
2013-06-14 08:45:15 PM  
1 vote:

whither_apophis: R.A.Danny: How many wars are we trying to get in at the same time?

All of them

/note to self: call broker, buy stock in Boeing, GE and Lockheed


Umm... Raytheon does most of the bombs/missiles.  You'd have better luck there.  It would be air support only most likely.
2013-06-14 08:43:23 PM  
1 vote:
I understand wanting Assad gone, but maybe that just can't happen right now. Maybe a quick defeat of the rebels is the least painful way to end this.

Apparently our State Department is thinking about letting in quite a few Syrian refugees as there have been quite a few people displaced by this civil war. Why is it our problem? We've got enough people who already live here that we need to help right now. The Arab world should be the ones bearing the burden of this mess.
2013-06-14 08:38:48 PM  
1 vote:

simplicimus: Dinki: simplicimus:

Arming Al-Qaeda? No downside here. And Putin has a good sense of humor, right.

Yes, because all the Syrian rebels are Al-Qeada.

Doesn't have to be all.


Exactly. Just letting them get a chance to steal a rifle from a dead guy is bad enough, but these people, if we believe what our government and mainstream media have been saying for 12 years, are experts at finding ways to hog everything they can. If the US thinks they can keep the arms going only to the people the White House likes they're kidding themselves: civil wars never worked that way, especially not in countries as internally divided as Syria. (In America the North had the luxury of doing the lion's share of the invading and attacking with troops pulled from far away: a real civil war would have had Confederates in Boston and Buffalo and Yankees joining up in Atlanta.)

You know what got rid of most of the anti-Franco groups in Spain? It wasn't the Falangists, it was the Communists on orders from Stalin. There's always a group of dangerous fanatics who care more about the global struggle than what's going on around them, yet they usually insist on running the show or else. And usually they'd rather hand the country over to The Enemy or destroy it themselves than let a bunch of nice guys have anything to say about it.

Does anyone realize that Islamist extremists weren't the only people in Afghanistan opposed to the Soviet invasion? There were (albeit small) Western-style-democratic groups and Trotskyist and Maoist cadres willing to fight, even factions of the ruling party and the Afghan army were against it, but the CIA had to go through its hardline Muslim Arab and Pakistani friends instead. Because a goat-farking maniac has more cred than a trilingual guy with a Master's from Yale.

I blame the Reaganites for 9/11. Now let's sit back and watch the cycle run through again.
2013-06-14 08:31:17 PM  
1 vote:
What bombing people for peace might look like (Serbia)

www.b92.net

upload.wikimedia.org


www.commondreams.org

graphics8.nytimes.com
2013-06-14 08:30:48 PM  
1 vote:
I seriously have to ask myself how much better off we'd be if, on 9/11, they'd attacked Langley and Ft. Meade.
2013-06-14 08:28:18 PM  
1 vote:

RevCarter: The strategy is a simple one: maintan the Civil War. Bleed Iran and Hezbollah. Let Russia ruin their own brand in the Middle East.

do some favors, earn some allies, build up knowledge of assets and enemy's on the ground in preparation for for the next stage.

Assad can't win. And we just need a stalemate until he is either killed or removed by his own people, or he flees the country with or without a negotiated settlement.


spoiler alert, sheesh!
2013-06-14 08:26:39 PM  
1 vote:
The strategy is a simple one: maintan the Civil War. Bleed Iran and Hezbollah. Let Russia ruin their own brand in the Middle East.

do some favors, earn some allies, build up knowledge of assets and enemy's on the ground in preparation for for the next stage.

Assad can't win. And we just need a stalemate until he is either killed or removed by his own people, or he flees the country with or without a negotiated settlement.
2013-06-14 08:26:08 PM  
1 vote:

Vectron: Shut up citizen, it will be good for the economy and Krugman says its easier than killing aliens.


We have a problem.
The companies want something done about this sluggish
world economic situation
Profits have been running a little thin lately
and we need to stimulate some growth
Now we know
there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming
around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble
for the police and damage private property.
It doesn't look like they'll ever get a job
It's about time we did something constructive with these people
2013-06-14 08:09:45 PM  
1 vote:

simplicimus: Ow! That was my feelings!: SirEattonHogg: And we're getting involved there, why?

Because, Hezbollah has now joined the fight and Assad and Iran are going to 'win' if we don't interfere or something. Oh, look! Egypt is now joining the war.  What a non-surprise.

What's Russia and China doing?


Well, Russia is counting their rubles from all the military contracts and China is hoping we bleed more money and people into the Middle East and therefore advance our demise and their ability to be the next, only Superpower.
2013-06-14 08:01:39 PM  
1 vote:
i655.photobucket.com
2013-06-14 08:01:16 PM  
1 vote:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Do nothing: conservatives biatch
Arm the rebels: conservatives biatch

/I sense a pattern here


i40.tinypic.com
2013-06-14 07:59:01 PM  
1 vote:

Benjimin_Dover: Hey. A Democrat is doing it now, so it will work. Right?


graphics8.nytimes.com
2013-06-14 07:54:09 PM  
1 vote:

Flatus: How's the Kool-Aid these days, libs?


Getting used to waterboard anyone that disagrees with starting another war. At least the kool-aid is delicious. Tastes like ... hope and change.
2013-06-14 07:53:03 PM  
1 vote:

machoprogrammer: You really think this is a good idea?


Here's the thing.. do I think its a good idea tactically? Hell no. Do I think it's a political necessity (globally.. taking action in Syria probably has more negatives than positives in domestic politics). Unfortunately yes.
2013-06-14 07:52:13 PM  
1 vote:
I prefer these lyrics

The microphone explodes, shattering the molds
Either drop tha hits like de la O or get tha fark off tha commode
Wit tha sure shot, sure ta make tha bodies drop
Drop an don't copy yo, don't call this a co-op
Terror rains drenchin', quenchin' tha thirst of tha power dons
That five sided fist-a-gon
Tha rotten sore on tha face of mother earth gets bigger
Tha triggers cold empty ya purse
Rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells
They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells
They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells
They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells
Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes
Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal
I walk tha corner to tha rubble that used to be a library
Line up to tha mind cemetery now
What we don't know keeps tha contracts alive an movin'
They don't gotta burn tha books they just remove 'em
While arms warehouses fill as quick as tha cells
Rally round tha family, pockets full of shells
2013-06-14 07:44:24 PM  
1 vote:
I think the humane thing to do is put them all out of their misery.
2013-06-14 07:41:08 PM  
1 vote:

basemetal: Who stands to profit the most?


The Winner....
2013-06-14 07:37:50 PM  
1 vote:
How's the Kool-Aid these days, libs?
2013-06-14 07:34:22 PM  
1 vote:

whither_apophis: R.A.Danny: How many wars are we trying to get in at the same time?

All of them

/note to self: call broker, buy stock in Boeing, GE and Lockheed


toss some Raytheon in there too
2013-06-14 07:02:13 PM  
1 vote:
The rebels promised U.S. and European officials that any military weaponry they get won't end up with extremists among the anti-government forces, he said.

Did they at least pinky swear?
2013-06-14 06:47:41 PM  
1 vote:
img534.imageshack.us
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-06-14 06:46:16 PM  
1 vote:
Worked great in Afghanistan and Nicaragua.
 
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