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(WTAM)   Should the U.S. government be forced to buy American-made American flags? Ab-so-damn-lutely   (wtam.com) divider line 28
    More: Obvious, American flags, Americans, U.S. Government, Flag Days, National Historic Landmark, American workers, United States Navy  
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4314 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 6:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 04:47:09 PM  
10 votes:

nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?



1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs
2013-06-14 05:43:38 PM  
3 votes:

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


Put me down in the number 5 category and know you will not run into me at Walmart
2013-06-15 02:04:06 AM  
2 votes:

The One True TheDavid: Officially used US flags, including those of states, towns and counties, should be made here. As should military and police uniforms (including footwear), judges' robes and the gavels they bang with, etc. etc. Every American governmental agency should support American products and American labor.


Which means you are just supporting inefficient industries that are bound to fail sooner or later anyway. If you want to support American products, put leaders in to office that understand the importance of education and innovation.

You don't need low-end production like flags and textiles, that can be better done in cheaper countries. The problem is those cheaper countries will develop as well.  So the focus should be on keeping your edge, keep improving, and focusing on the high value added, high quality products instead of protecting doomed industries.
2013-06-14 07:08:42 PM  
2 votes:

marius2: Bravo Two:

Or, you know, showing pride in the fact that you live in the US.

Why? What does it matter? Most people have no say in the country they live in (they were born there) why does it make it special? Patriotism (Nationalism) is silly, outdated, and was created to control the lower classes in revolts against the monarchies. What's the point of it today? "USA, USA, USA!" nice, wonderful, jingoism.

How many other countries do you go to that have their national flag flying in the front of many middle-class homes? It's kinda creepy to an extent. I also tend to notice the people that fly these flags also seem to be the ones that rant about the government the most.... that flag represents them too.


I just got back from Vancouver, BC. I saw a lot of Canadian flags and patriotic Canadian goods.  I've seen equal behavior in Ireland, and the UK to some extent.

Why does it matter? To you, it may not. You may see your country as just another plot of land, something to be ambivalent or even embarassed about.  I personally love my country, faults and all. I love the fact that I'm free to do things that others do not get to do. I love the fact that my family participated in the history of this country.  I'm proud of the way people respond to tragedies and come together. That's our country. I'm glad to live here. I have some pride in that.

So, you can believe that nationalism is outdated and silly. I happen to believe it's a valuable thing, especially economically, because it biases towards our own people, as it should. Buy american and help the economy. Buy American and support companies that charge more but sell better quality goods.  Buy American and make sure that your neighbor has a job, keeps the lights on, and can feed his family.

Personally, I'd rather support businesses that favor people HERE than spending money that ultimate goes to support some family in China when people in my own country are starving.
2013-06-14 07:02:56 PM  
2 votes:
Bravo Two:

Or, you know, showing pride in the fact that you live in the US.

Why? What does it matter? Most people have no say in the country they live in (they were born there) why does it make it special? Patriotism (Nationalism) is silly, outdated, and was created to control the lower classes in revolts against the monarchies. What's the point of it today? "USA, USA, USA!" nice, wonderful, jingoism.

How many other countries do you go to that have their national flag flying in the front of many middle-class homes? It's kinda creepy to an extent. I also tend to notice the people that fly these flags also seem to be the ones that rant about the government the most.... that flag represents them too.
2013-06-14 06:58:49 PM  
2 votes:

mr0x: <BLOCKQUOTE>Should the U.S. government be forced to buy American-made American flags? Ab-so-damn-lutely </BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they shouldn't be.

The whole country of origin thing was made up for tax purposes and now, we use it to judge quality of item and patriotism.

Give something to humans and they will try and find patterns in it and put emotional value to it.

You ask the government to buy "Made in US" flags, pretty soon it will now cost 10 times more and it will still be made in China but stamped made in the USA and smuggled here.


So, instead of supporting businesses here in the US, you'd rather just say "screw it" and go lowest dollar?

I know this is a hard thing to grasp, because "zomg more expensive", but have you stopped to consider that if the government buys the more expensive item made here in the US, that money goes to a company that employs workers here in the US, who then in turn spend those dollars on other goods and services and taxes here in the US? And that that money then flows back up the food chain to the government, who can then reinvest it into other USA-based ventures?

Dumping dollars into foreign goods and importing them is basically retarding our economy. Why? Well, think about it. The person who does a skilled job manufacturing product X makes more money because they have more expertise and specific knowledge than the person who does an unskilled job selling products. That's more money per household, more money spent by that household in the US, and more money that's retained in our economy.

Now, consider: I'm a US-based manufacturer of goods. I employ management and corporate staff, workers to make the goods, and spend money on services to deliver my goods to retail stores.

Those retail stores employ management, corporate staff, and retail workers, who sell my goods.

Those shipping companies employ the same, and are paid both to deliver the raw materials to me and to transport my finished goods.

We've just moved a lot of money around in our economy, and employed a lot of people.

On the flip side of that, imported goods, cut out the money being generated and the employees being retained in the manufacturing sector.

So, yeah, domestic goods may cost less, but they also do more to help our economy than imported goods.

Spend your dollars wherever you want, but moving the bulk value of income off-shore by buying imported goods is stupid as it's just sucking more value out of our economy.

/Believes that the American Government could do a hell of a lot to boost the economy just by buying american-made goods, even if that were to include goods assembled int he US made from multinational parts.
2013-06-14 06:49:26 PM  
2 votes:
This is stupid. Why waste money buying flags anyways? Do we really need more reminders of what country we are in? If it's not marking a military base in a foreign country, then there is no point for it at all.

I'm so thankful for the hundreds of flags I see while driving through my town. "Damn, I thought I was in Canada, thank God for the reminder that I'm not! Phew, I better get my flag up soon before they think I'm a Commie!"
2013-06-14 06:45:59 PM  
2 votes:
I'm generally annoyed by symbolic "USA! USA! USA!" moves, but... duh?
2013-06-14 04:49:25 PM  
2 votes:
MaudlinMutantMollusk:
Thanks

/wasn't really serious, but, thanks


It's amazing the type of thing you can find with this here thinkin' television with the typewriter on it. ;-)
2013-06-14 04:45:13 PM  
2 votes:
Doesn't the government have enough flags already? How about spending that money on something useful?
2013-06-14 04:43:58 PM  
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?


Annin Flagmakers,  C.F. Flag,J.C. Schultz Enterprises, Inc. / The Flag Source,and Valley Forge Flag.

According to the Flag Manufacturers Association of America.
2013-06-15 12:37:37 PM  
1 votes:
If capitalism and free trade are things American's value - then it seems we should buy whatever flags are the best.
If government regulation and close-trade policies are things American's value - then we should require flags to be made in America.

I don't care one way or another - but I always find it odd how many American's take pride in saying they value X while actually supporting laws in direct contrast to Y.  Particularly around things like Freedom and Free Speech.  We say it's great; but so many of us support laws that go against them.  Which again, I'm fine with - but American's just can't seem to accept they DON'T ACTUALLY want freedom.
2013-06-14 09:59:00 PM  
1 votes:

zepillin: so now the Chinese currently making flags with 50% "american made materials"
will have to start making american flags with 100% "american made materials"

I feel so confused by this news article.
I don't think it's saying what it seems to think it's saying.


That was my impression too, "made from American-made materials" isn't the same as "manufactured/assembled in the U.S."
I'm also just baffled why one nation would make another nation's flag, I mean it just sounds ridiculous.  Flags aren't some novelty good, they're a country's colors.  If you can't make your own flag/colors, what the hell kind of country are you?  Not to mention the idea of another nation, one who we're so economically in bed with that we keep forgetting they've never really stopped being the enemy yet we keep a blind eye turned to all their disregard for basic human rights, this other nation is authorized to produce millions of our colors?
2013-06-14 09:36:27 PM  
1 votes:

cuzsis: WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?

Yep.

 It's called paying for a "living wage" not supporting farking slavery.

/seems to be a difficult concept for some.


Plus American-made products are generally superior to that of other countries, at least where we still have an industry.
2013-06-14 09:34:53 PM  
1 votes:

CygnusDarius: Why don't you make American-made products tax-free?.


NAFTA frowns on your protectionism.
2013-06-14 09:00:19 PM  
1 votes:

Slappajo: I don't know.  This is a pretty slippery slope.  The next thing you know there might be legislation requiring Americans to buy something specific...maybe something like health insurance.

I know it's a stretch, but it could happen.


This business of enfolding existing private health insurance policy makers into the Obamacare public system will boost insurance profits through the roof, mark my words. Worst idea for controlling costs since Medicare D did the same thing. Costs for part D are 3 to 4 times what the CBO estimated. I saw it coming, and I told everyone who'd listen but no, nobody listens to an old pharmacist who sees the bullshiat corporations shovel at the government and the citizenry every day.

So I'm telling you now, either totally public or totally private is how to improve the healthcare system, not this bastard devil the insurance companies paid for.
2013-06-14 08:55:25 PM  
1 votes:

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


6) People who like feelgood legislation instead of having Congress tackle issues that actually affect us as a country.
2013-06-14 08:49:39 PM  
1 votes:

positronica: FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

So if the government buys more expensive flags, instead of the cheapest, what part of the budget gets cut to make up the difference?  Who has to get paid less so that US flag makers get this extra income?  Aren't the individuals and communities who have to take the cut important?  Or are products focused around symbolic "patriotism" and nationalism more deserving of wasteful spending?

Here's a better suggestion for issues such as this: The government should only buy more expensive products if the industry that produces that product is on the verge of disappearing domestically AND if having that industry be active domestically is considered to be in the nation's vital interests.


Here's an even better idea: what if "the government" was composed of us - you, me, your neighbors, and the people that we know, and "the government" actually worked in the best interests of the people who are citizens of the country?  That would be weird, eh?  What if "the government" decided that American manufacturers were the best sources for our military technology, rather than outsourcing those contracts to the lowest bidder?  What if "the government" decided that roads, railways, bridges, and other necessary parts of our infrastructure should be manufactured here, rather than in China?

Wouldn't that be great?  Of course, it would mean that we would have to stop claiming that "the government" is always wrong and start admitting that "the government" is us, the American people.  That might not go over too well with people who don't like "the government."
2013-06-14 08:35:06 PM  
1 votes:
Why is this even an issue.  Of course, whenever possible, government contracts should go to domestic companies rather than foreign ones.  Partly out of symbolism, and partly out of a desire to keep the money essentially "in house" as it were.  If a foreign company wants to compete for a contract, it should provide a clear and compelling reason why its product is better than any domestic product.  I'd also grant an exemption for products that are much cheaper than domestic ones, but then we'd have to get into asking why the products are so much cheaper.  A lot of stuff from places like China is essentially slave labor, which can't be supported under any sense of economy.

It's not just a US thing.  Every country does this when possible.  The US President rolls in a custom Caddy, the Britis PM in a Rolls or Bentley, and the German Chancellor in a Mercedes or BMW.  Every country has a tendency to give preference to domestic brands.  It's just what's done.  Public procurement is not just a pure matter of "whats cheapest wins".
2013-06-14 08:23:08 PM  
1 votes:

Bravo Two: Personally, I'd rather support businesses that favor people HERE than spending money that ultimate goes to support some family in China when people in my own country are starving.


Because there aren't starving people in China? Because the starving people in China aren't as deserving of your help? I don't understand this line of reasoning.

If you said "I'd rather spend money here because I carefully choose my expenditures to ensure they increase food security and I cannot do that effectively when buying goods from overseas" or "China has inhumane business practices and spending with them will encourage further injustice" you might be on to something. But it's not at all clear to me how simply spending money locally leads to inherently better outcomes, even if you ignore the direct downside to the people who are not "here".
2013-06-14 07:10:43 PM  
1 votes:

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


So if the government buys more expensive flags, instead of the cheapest, what part of the budget gets cut to make up the difference?  Who has to get paid less so that US flag makers get this extra income?  Aren't the individuals and communities who have to take the cut important?  Or are products focused around symbolic "patriotism" and nationalism more deserving of wasteful spending?

Here's a better suggestion for issues such as this: The government should only buy more expensive products if the industry that produces that product is on the verge of disappearing domestically AND if having that industry be active domestically is considered to be in the nation's vital interests.
2013-06-14 07:08:12 PM  
1 votes:

Rev.K: YAY ECONOMIC PROTECTIONISM!


Yes, in case you hadn't noticed, the US economy needed to be better protected these last several years.
2013-06-14 07:03:10 PM  
1 votes:

WorldCitizen: So anti-free market then?


Is a market that is controlled by businesses, held hostage by corporate marketing driving price over quality, value and economic benefit, and a government in bed with said businesses giving preferential treatment to them insofar as allowing them to become parasites on the american consumer rather than controlled by it, really free?

If you shape a market in such a way that large business wins by making them able to basically negate the labor market costs, taxes, and any responsibility for returning profits to the economy from which they are garnering them, you no longer have a "Free market".  Maybe a Plantation market? Not sure what you'd call it.
2013-06-14 07:00:52 PM  
1 votes:
So shove another ribbon up your S.U.V.
2013-06-14 06:51:14 PM  
1 votes:
I don't know.  This is a pretty slippery slope.  The next thing you know there might be legislation requiring Americans to buy something specific...maybe something like health insurance.

I know it's a stretch, but it could happen.
2013-06-14 04:58:56 PM  
1 votes:

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


All of that adds up to $3.8 million a year.   In the grand scheme of things, that is empty rhetoric.
2013-06-14 04:41:36 PM  
1 votes:
Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?
2013-06-14 04:35:39 PM  
1 votes:
That used to be the law, until Reagan effectively did away with it by granting exemptions to anyone who asked.
 
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