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(WTAM)   Should the U.S. government be forced to buy American-made American flags? Ab-so-damn-lutely   (wtam.com) divider line 158
    More: Obvious, American flags, Americans, U.S. Government, Flag Days, National Historic Landmark, American workers, United States Navy  
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4313 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 6:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 04:25:08 PM
So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?
 
2013-06-14 04:35:39 PM
That used to be the law, until Reagan effectively did away with it by granting exemptions to anyone who asked.
 
2013-06-14 04:36:24 PM
Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?
 
2013-06-14 04:41:36 PM
Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?
 
2013-06-14 04:43:16 PM
I have a small 9/11-era refrigerator magnet flag that has CHINA printed across the stripes.
 
2013-06-14 04:43:58 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?


Annin Flagmakers,  C.F. Flag,J.C. Schultz Enterprises, Inc. / The Flag Source,and Valley Forge Flag.

According to the Flag Manufacturers Association of America.
 
2013-06-14 04:45:13 PM
Doesn't the government have enough flags already? How about spending that money on something useful?
 
2013-06-14 04:47:09 PM

nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?



1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs
 
2013-06-14 04:47:41 PM

FloydA: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?

Annin Flagmakers,  C.F. Flag,J.C. Schultz Enterprises, Inc. / The Flag Source,and Valley Forge Flag.

According to the Flag Manufacturers Association of America.


Thanks

/wasn't really serious, but, thanks
 
2013-06-14 04:49:25 PM
MaudlinMutantMollusk:
Thanks

/wasn't really serious, but, thanks


It's amazing the type of thing you can find with this here thinkin' television with the typewriter on it. ;-)
 
2013-06-14 04:56:29 PM

WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?


Unions need the work.
 
2013-06-14 04:58:56 PM

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


All of that adds up to $3.8 million a year.   In the grand scheme of things, that is empty rhetoric.
 
2013-06-14 05:00:16 PM
YAY ECONOMIC PROTECTIONISM!
 
2013-06-14 05:43:38 PM

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


Put me down in the number 5 category and know you will not run into me at Walmart
 
2013-06-14 06:26:56 PM
So does it have to be made from US cotton made woven into cloth in the US dyed with dyes made from ingredients completely sourced from the US.

Or does just final assembly have to be in the US?
 
2013-06-14 06:30:41 PM

EvilEgg: So does it have to be made from US cotton made woven into cloth in the US dyed with dyes made from ingredients completely sourced from the US.

Or does just final assembly have to be in the US?


The sticks

/all flag sticks must be made from genuine US trees processed by US stick makers
 
2013-06-14 06:45:59 PM
I'm generally annoyed by symbolic "USA! USA! USA!" moves, but... duh?
 
2013-06-14 06:47:12 PM
Why should taxpayers be forced to support an industry that isn't competitive.

Buying American when the American product is more expensive or of poorer quality is not patriotism it's just stupid.

I'm ok with the textile industry moving to less developed countries. It's dirty, low paying, and bad for the environment.
 
2013-06-14 06:49:26 PM
This is stupid. Why waste money buying flags anyways? Do we really need more reminders of what country we are in? If it's not marking a military base in a foreign country, then there is no point for it at all.

I'm so thankful for the hundreds of flags I see while driving through my town. "Damn, I thought I was in Canada, thank God for the reminder that I'm not! Phew, I better get my flag up soon before they think I'm a Commie!"
 
2013-06-14 06:50:09 PM
Should the U.S. Government be forced to buy American-made American flags goods? Ab-so-damn-lutely

There, ftfy submittard.
 
2013-06-14 06:50:32 PM

nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


second.
 
2013-06-14 06:50:39 PM
Yes.

And campaigns should probably make sure all their campaign gear like hats have a made in USA tag.
 
2013-06-14 06:50:44 PM

marius2: This is stupid. Why waste money buying flags anyways? Do we really need more reminders of what country we are in? If it's not marking a military base in a foreign country, then there is no point for it at all.

I'm so thankful for the hundreds of flags I see while driving through my town. "Damn, I thought I was in Canada, thank God for the reminder that I'm not! Phew, I better get my flag up soon before they think I'm a Commie!"


Or, you know, showing pride in the fact that you live in the US.
 
2013-06-14 06:50:45 PM
Pffffftttt......like people can tell the government what to do.
 
2013-06-14 06:50:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE>Should the U.S. government be forced to buy American-made American flags? Ab-so-damn-lutely </BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they shouldn't be.

The whole country of origin thing was made up for tax purposes and now, we use it to judge quality of item and patriotism.

Give something to humans and they will try and find patterns in it and put emotional value to it.

You ask the government to buy "Made in US" flags, pretty soon it will now cost 10 times more and it will still be made in China but stamped made in the USA and smuggled here.
 
2013-06-14 06:51:14 PM
I don't know.  This is a pretty slippery slope.  The next thing you know there might be legislation requiring Americans to buy something specific...maybe something like health insurance.

I know it's a stretch, but it could happen.
 
2013-06-14 06:51:25 PM

aacharya: FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

All of that adds up to $3.8 million a year.   In the grand scheme of things, that is empty rhetoric.


I have a friend who has a small tech company that does about 4 mil a year. It's clean, safe and employees college educated Americans. I'll take that any day over high school dropouts, chocking on lint in some "Patriotic rag factory."
 
2013-06-14 06:51:49 PM

FloydA: MaudlinMutantMollusk:
Thanks

/wasn't really serious, but, thanks

It's amazing the type of thing you can find with this here thinkin' television with the typewriter on it. ;-)


I am SO stealing that. Maybe it's the beer, but that was goddam funny!
 
2013-06-14 06:54:47 PM

American made:


content.wohoho.pl

 
2013-06-14 06:55:35 PM

Rev.K: YAY ECONOMIC PROTECTIONISM!


You say that like its a bad thing...
 
2013-06-14 06:56:06 PM
That's a fine idea and all, but Free Trade... I'm afraid that ship has sailed boys and girls.
 
2013-06-14 06:56:34 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Doesn't the government have enough flags already? How about spending that money on something useful?


Gotta put something on solider graves.
 
2013-06-14 06:57:18 PM

skinink: American made:
[content.wohoho.pl image 500x750]


the silicone too?
 
2013-06-14 06:57:37 PM

El_Frijole_Blanco: 5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

Put me down in the number 5 category and know you will not run into me at Walmart


What the Bean said.
 
2013-06-14 06:57:56 PM
Never pass. The Democrats will want to add amnesty for Mexicans, and the Republicans will want to add 100 F-35's, a repeal of Roe vs. Wade, and free guns for every 6 year old.
 
2013-06-14 06:58:26 PM
So anti-free market then?
 
2013-06-14 06:58:27 PM
Officially used US flags, including those of states, towns and counties, should be made here. As should military and police uniforms (including footwear), judges' robes and the gavels they bang with, etc. etc. Every American governmental agency should support American products and American labor.

If they ain't doin' it now they'd best get a-crackin'. I might oppose Rand Paul eventually, even if my belly is bigger than my tits. On his left I'm more commie than Obama could ever dream of being, and on his right I'm a harder-nosed patriot where it counts. No teapartying hypocrite has a chance against me if enough of y'all farkers SEND ME MONEY. First I'll get my teeth fixed, then I'll get gymclubbed and liposucted, then I'll have my chin tightened, then I'll get bright blue contacts with a built-in gleam. Only a Hollywood beauty could beat me then, and then only if her sex tape is hotter.
 
2013-06-14 06:58:49 PM

mr0x: <BLOCKQUOTE>Should the U.S. government be forced to buy American-made American flags? Ab-so-damn-lutely </BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they shouldn't be.

The whole country of origin thing was made up for tax purposes and now, we use it to judge quality of item and patriotism.

Give something to humans and they will try and find patterns in it and put emotional value to it.

You ask the government to buy "Made in US" flags, pretty soon it will now cost 10 times more and it will still be made in China but stamped made in the USA and smuggled here.


So, instead of supporting businesses here in the US, you'd rather just say "screw it" and go lowest dollar?

I know this is a hard thing to grasp, because "zomg more expensive", but have you stopped to consider that if the government buys the more expensive item made here in the US, that money goes to a company that employs workers here in the US, who then in turn spend those dollars on other goods and services and taxes here in the US? And that that money then flows back up the food chain to the government, who can then reinvest it into other USA-based ventures?

Dumping dollars into foreign goods and importing them is basically retarding our economy. Why? Well, think about it. The person who does a skilled job manufacturing product X makes more money because they have more expertise and specific knowledge than the person who does an unskilled job selling products. That's more money per household, more money spent by that household in the US, and more money that's retained in our economy.

Now, consider: I'm a US-based manufacturer of goods. I employ management and corporate staff, workers to make the goods, and spend money on services to deliver my goods to retail stores.

Those retail stores employ management, corporate staff, and retail workers, who sell my goods.

Those shipping companies employ the same, and are paid both to deliver the raw materials to me and to transport my finished goods.

We've just moved a lot of money around in our economy, and employed a lot of people.

On the flip side of that, imported goods, cut out the money being generated and the employees being retained in the manufacturing sector.

So, yeah, domestic goods may cost less, but they also do more to help our economy than imported goods.

Spend your dollars wherever you want, but moving the bulk value of income off-shore by buying imported goods is stupid as it's just sucking more value out of our economy.

/Believes that the American Government could do a hell of a lot to boost the economy just by buying american-made goods, even if that were to include goods assembled int he US made from multinational parts.
 
2013-06-14 06:59:02 PM
obamadidcoke:
Buying American when the American product is more expensive or of poorer quality is not patriotism it's just stupid.


I sometimes look for a made in the US sticker when I buy things.  In part because I do like to support the local economy (why not?)  but also the quality is actually better on many items.

Obviously, there isn't a lot made in the US anymore (atleast not as household items), but if there are, they are actually better made in my experience (except for cars maybe) - if the competition is China or another developing country.
 
2013-06-14 07:00:52 PM
So shove another ribbon up your S.U.V.
 
2013-06-14 07:01:34 PM
Should the U.S. government buy American flags? Is there some confusion as to who they are that requires what amounts to corporate branding?
 
2013-06-14 07:02:11 PM
I live just a few blocks from this one~
http://www.natflagcinti.com/
On television tonight, there was a story on this business; they are in fact making parade flags and the like for the military. Judging from the seamstress' quality piecework, it beats the hell out of a 3'X5' nylon print.
 
2013-06-14 07:02:16 PM

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries


So... you're saying that the Chinese are the only ones that care to begin with?  Textiles aren't exactly a huge US industry, we're more in heavy equipment, automation, and microelectronics, the rest is really service industry.

5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

Ah, so the Chinese and morons who are exceptionally supercilious about being morons.  Gotcha.
 
2013-06-14 07:02:56 PM
Bravo Two:

Or, you know, showing pride in the fact that you live in the US.

Why? What does it matter? Most people have no say in the country they live in (they were born there) why does it make it special? Patriotism (Nationalism) is silly, outdated, and was created to control the lower classes in revolts against the monarchies. What's the point of it today? "USA, USA, USA!" nice, wonderful, jingoism.

How many other countries do you go to that have their national flag flying in the front of many middle-class homes? It's kinda creepy to an extent. I also tend to notice the people that fly these flags also seem to be the ones that rant about the government the most.... that flag represents them too.
 
2013-06-14 07:03:10 PM

WorldCitizen: So anti-free market then?


Is a market that is controlled by businesses, held hostage by corporate marketing driving price over quality, value and economic benefit, and a government in bed with said businesses giving preferential treatment to them insofar as allowing them to become parasites on the american consumer rather than controlled by it, really free?

If you shape a market in such a way that large business wins by making them able to basically negate the labor market costs, taxes, and any responsibility for returning profits to the economy from which they are garnering them, you no longer have a "Free market".  Maybe a Plantation market? Not sure what you'd call it.
 
2013-06-14 07:03:39 PM

FloydA: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?

Annin Flagmakers,  C.F. Flag,J.C. Schultz Enterprises, Inc. / The Flag Source,and Valley Forge Flag.

According to the Flag Manufacturers Association of America.


I've got patriotic bunting made by Annin. I can attest to the high quality. It's also actually stitched and manufactured in America. They're durable and the color holds up great. They're also pretty damned expensive, especially when you want to be this patriotic:

images1.wikia.nocookie.net

/4th of July is my favorite holiday
//needed appropriate buntings for porch
 
2013-06-14 07:03:56 PM
Not to be waving the flag or anything, just speaking from experience. For the entire decade of the 80's, I worked for a clothing manufacturer of menswear as a sales rep. The quality of domestic manufactured men's clothing was far and away better than the imports, both in the construction and the piece goods. Domestic cotton was far superior to most imported with a few exceptions like Egypt. Imported shiat was for close-out stuff. Even the packaging was inferior. Now, it is hard to find a truly well made quality dress shirt.
 
2013-06-14 07:04:39 PM

Bravo Two: WorldCitizen: So anti-free market then?

Is a market that is controlled by businesses, held hostage by corporate marketing driving price over quality, value and economic benefit, and a government in bed with said businesses giving preferential treatment to them insofar as allowing them to become parasites on the american consumer rather than controlled by it, really free?

If you shape a market in such a way that large business wins by making them able to basically negate the labor market costs, taxes, and any responsibility for returning profits to the economy from which they are garnering them, you no longer have a "Free market".  Maybe a Plantation market? Not sure what you'd call it.


Free Trade
 
2013-06-14 07:07:26 PM

obamadidcoke: aacharya: FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

All of that adds up to $3.8 million a year.   In the grand scheme of things, that is empty rhetoric.

I have a friend who has a small tech company that does about 4 mil a year. It's clean, safe and employees college educated Americans. I'll take that any day over high school dropouts, chocking on lint in some "Patriotic rag factory."


So it can only be one or the other?
 
2013-06-14 07:08:12 PM

Rev.K: YAY ECONOMIC PROTECTIONISM!


Yes, in case you hadn't noticed, the US economy needed to be better protected these last several years.
 
2013-06-14 07:08:42 PM

marius2: Bravo Two:

Or, you know, showing pride in the fact that you live in the US.

Why? What does it matter? Most people have no say in the country they live in (they were born there) why does it make it special? Patriotism (Nationalism) is silly, outdated, and was created to control the lower classes in revolts against the monarchies. What's the point of it today? "USA, USA, USA!" nice, wonderful, jingoism.

How many other countries do you go to that have their national flag flying in the front of many middle-class homes? It's kinda creepy to an extent. I also tend to notice the people that fly these flags also seem to be the ones that rant about the government the most.... that flag represents them too.


I just got back from Vancouver, BC. I saw a lot of Canadian flags and patriotic Canadian goods.  I've seen equal behavior in Ireland, and the UK to some extent.

Why does it matter? To you, it may not. You may see your country as just another plot of land, something to be ambivalent or even embarassed about.  I personally love my country, faults and all. I love the fact that I'm free to do things that others do not get to do. I love the fact that my family participated in the history of this country.  I'm proud of the way people respond to tragedies and come together. That's our country. I'm glad to live here. I have some pride in that.

So, you can believe that nationalism is outdated and silly. I happen to believe it's a valuable thing, especially economically, because it biases towards our own people, as it should. Buy american and help the economy. Buy American and support companies that charge more but sell better quality goods.  Buy American and make sure that your neighbor has a job, keeps the lights on, and can feed his family.

Personally, I'd rather support businesses that favor people HERE than spending money that ultimate goes to support some family in China when people in my own country are starving.
 
2013-06-14 07:09:54 PM

flondrix: Rev.K: YAY ECONOMIC PROTECTIONISM!

Yes, in case you hadn't noticed, the US economy needed to be better protected these last several years.


This. The government of the US should be all about protecting and promoting the interests of the US, including favorable status and support for American goods and companies over foreign ones.
 
2013-06-14 07:10:03 PM
red_dragon60:
/4th of July is my favorite holiday

"
The 4th of July" is not a holiday.

/ Independence Day
// Pet Peeve.
 
2013-06-14 07:10:18 PM

Bravo Two: mr0x: <BLOCKQUOTE>Should the U.S. government be forced to buy American-made American flags? Ab-so-damn-lutely </BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they shouldn't be.

The whole country of origin thing was made up for tax purposes and now, we use it to judge quality of item and patriotism.

Give something to humans and they will try and find patterns in it and put emotional value to it.

You ask the government to buy "Made in US" flags, pretty soon it will now cost 10 times more and it will still be made in China but stamped made in the USA and smuggled here.

So, instead of supporting businesses here in the US, you'd rather just say "screw it" and go lowest dollar?

I know this is a hard thing to grasp, because "zomg more expensive", but have you stopped to consider that if the government buys the more expensive item made here in the US, that money goes to a company that employs workers here in the US, who then in turn spend those dollars on other goods and services and taxes here in the US? And that that money then flows back up the food chain to the government, who can then reinvest it into other USA-based ventures?

Dumping dollars into foreign goods and importing them is basically retarding our economy. Why? Well, think about it. The person who does a skilled job manufacturing product X makes more money because they have more expertise and specific knowledge than the person who does an unskilled job selling products. That's more money per household, more money spent by that household in the US, and more money that's retained in our economy.

Now, consider: I'm a US-based manufacturer of goods. I employ management and corporate staff, workers to make the goods, and spend money on services to deliver my goods to retail stores.

Those retail stores employ management, corporate staff, and retail workers, who sell my goods.

Those shipping companies employ the same, and are paid both to deliver the raw materials to me and to transport my finished goods.

We've just moved a ...


Oh you believe the myth of the "Magic American Dollar," the idea that wealth and value are centered on singular economic transactions.

I wonder how many of these "American Made Flags," have textiles that are produced overseas and are sewn with equipment other countries.

I also wonder how many of these "foreign flags" are manufactured using high tech american control systems that run the machines.

I'd really rather sell the Chinese a 10 million dollar industrial loom than worry about a $10 flag.
 
2013-06-14 07:10:43 PM

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


So if the government buys more expensive flags, instead of the cheapest, what part of the budget gets cut to make up the difference?  Who has to get paid less so that US flag makers get this extra income?  Aren't the individuals and communities who have to take the cut important?  Or are products focused around symbolic "patriotism" and nationalism more deserving of wasteful spending?

Here's a better suggestion for issues such as this: The government should only buy more expensive products if the industry that produces that product is on the verge of disappearing domestically AND if having that industry be active domestically is considered to be in the nation's vital interests.
 
2013-06-14 07:12:14 PM
No, they shouldn't be forced, but there should be a huge tariff on foreign made flags.

FloydA: Annin Flagmakers


Woo, only about 20 miles north of me in Coshocton, Ohio (and about the only business left in that town).

"Oldest and Largest Maker of Flags in the United States since 1847"
 
2013-06-14 07:12:48 PM
Bravo Two:

A respectable response.
 
2013-06-14 07:13:52 PM

obamadidcoke: Bravo Two: mr0x: <BLOCKQUOTE>Should the U.S. government be forced to buy American-made American flags? Ab-so-damn-lutely </BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they shouldn't be.

The whole country of origin thing was made up for tax purposes and now, we use it to judge quality of item and patriotism.

Give something to humans and they will try and find patterns in it and put emotional value to it.

You ask the government to buy "Made in US" flags, pretty soon it will now cost 10 times more and it will still be made in China but stamped made in the USA and smuggled here.

So, instead of supporting businesses here in the US, you'd rather just say "screw it" and go lowest dollar?

I know this is a hard thing to grasp, because "zomg more expensive", but have you stopped to consider that if the government buys the more expensive item made here in the US, that money goes to a company that employs workers here in the US, who then in turn spend those dollars on other goods and services and taxes here in the US? And that that money then flows back up the food chain to the government, who can then reinvest it into other USA-based ventures?

Dumping dollars into foreign goods and importing them is basically retarding our economy. Why? Well, think about it. The person who does a skilled job manufacturing product X makes more money because they have more expertise and specific knowledge than the person who does an unskilled job selling products. That's more money per household, more money spent by that household in the US, and more money that's retained in our economy.

Now, consider: I'm a US-based manufacturer of goods. I employ management and corporate staff, workers to make the goods, and spend money on services to deliver my goods to retail stores.

Those retail stores employ management, corporate staff, and retail workers, who sell my goods.

Those shipping companies employ the same, and are paid both to deliver the raw materials to me and to transport my finished goods.

We've j ...


I believe that selling US Goods to China while favoring US Goods in the US is better than selling US Goods to china in a few cases and turning around to buy most everything else from them.
 
2013-06-14 07:14:14 PM
so now the Chinese currently making flags with 50% "american made materials"
will have to start making american flags with 100% "american made materials"

I feel so confused by this news article.
I don't think it's saying what it seems to think it's saying.
 
2013-06-14 07:14:18 PM

marius2: Bravo Two:

Or, you know, showing pride in the fact that you live in the US.

Why? What does it matter? Most people have no say in the country they live in (they were born there) why does it make it special? Patriotism (Nationalism) is silly, outdated, and was created to control the lower classes in revolts against the monarchies. What's the point of it today? "USA, USA, USA!" nice, wonderful, jingoism.

How many other countries do you go to that have their national flag flying in the front of many middle-class homes? It's kinda creepy to an extent. I also tend to notice the people that fly these flags also seem to be the ones that rant about the government the most.... that flag represents them too.


The Brits seem totally mystified about our flag fetish.
 
2013-06-14 07:14:25 PM

The One True TheDavid: Officially used US flags, including those of states, towns and counties, should be made here. As should military and police uniforms (including footwear), judges' robes and the gavels they bang with, etc. etc. Every American governmental agency should support American products and American labor.



These are perfect examples of how we should be using prison labor. Fark having them make license plates or be telemarketers, have them make the products worn by the people who put them in prison. It would save a lot of money and the non prison industries could concentrate on making things for the rest of us.
 
2013-06-14 07:15:33 PM
obamadidcoke:

The Brits seem totally mystified about our flag fetish.

My Ex-Fiancee was a New Zealander and she said it made her feel like she was in North Korea when she was here.

/I brought her to Wal-Mart once and she threw up in the parking lot.
 
2013-06-14 07:15:54 PM
When my kids grow up I hope to hell that they still have the opportunity to make a career out of sewing American flags.
 
2013-06-14 07:18:40 PM
Pass a law that says they have to be american made, and what you'll most likely end up with is illegal aliens in a sweat shop sewing factory or something similar.  I like the idea, but I'm not convinced it would work the way people want.
 
2013-06-14 07:19:05 PM

jaybeezey: obamadidcoke: aacharya: FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

All of that adds up to $3.8 million a year.   In the grand scheme of things, that is empty rhetoric.

I have a friend who has a small tech company that does about 4 mil a year. It's clean, safe and employees college educated Americans. I'll take that any day over high school dropouts, chocking on lint in some "Patriotic rag factory."

So it can only be one or the other?


no but we shouldn't force taxpayers to support an industry that can't support it's self
 
2013-06-14 07:19:52 PM

Slappajo: I don't know.  This is a pretty slippery slope.  The next thing you know there might be legislation requiring Americans to buy something specific...maybe something like health insurance.

I know it's a stretch, but it could happen.


To be fair, there is no where in the law that says it has to be American made insurance.

/I like my insurances artistically crafted by Tibetan children. The tiny hands and tears ensure me of high quality
 
2013-06-14 07:20:19 PM
Why stop at flag makers? And I don't ask that in a sarcastic way, I'm okay with our government spending money inside its own borders.

I know there is already the Fly American Act which means gov't employees and contractors can't fly non-American carriers for business, and I'm okay with that too. Let the private market do what they want, but let's try to keep our money here, even if it costs us more up front.
 
2013-06-14 07:21:33 PM

Rent Party: red_dragon60:
/4th of July is my favorite holiday

"The 4th of July" is not a holiday.

/ Independence Day
// Pet Peeve.


I stand corrected. I'll just USA! chant myself out of here.
 
2013-06-14 07:21:49 PM
No.  Free market, biatches.
 
2013-06-14 07:23:33 PM
You guys all realize that only 5% of American flags are foreign made, right?
 
2013-06-14 07:23:57 PM
I don't think so. As another example: should the US armed forces be required to only purchase American-made weapons and vehicles? Unless I'm mistaken the answer is "hell no" so STFU about some stupid little flags, basically.
 
2013-06-14 07:24:58 PM
marius2:
My Ex-Fiancee was a New Zealander and she said it made her feel like she was in North Korea when she was here.

/I brought her to Wal-Mart once and she threw up in the parking lot.



Made her feel like she was in North Korea?  What a stupid statement. Then why did she come here in the first place?  No one forced her to come to the US.

I don't go to other countries and mention how stupid their patriotism or allegiance to the country is.
 
2013-06-14 07:26:09 PM

Burr: FloydA: Annin Flagmakers

Woo, only about 20 miles north of me in Coshocton, Ohio (and about the only business left in that town).

"Oldest and Largest Maker of Flags in the United States since 1847"


So that is why Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown is so interested.
 
2013-06-14 07:26:48 PM

Gig103: Why stop at flag makers? And I don't ask that in a sarcastic way, I'm okay with our government spending money inside its own borders.

I know there is already the Fly American Act which means gov't employees and contractors can't fly non-American carriers for business, and I'm okay with that too. Let the private market do what they want, but let's try to keep our money here, even if it costs us more up front.


Yep, i said that up-thread. I think the US Government should be required to buy US_made goods wherever possible.
 
2013-06-14 07:31:05 PM

Jument: I don't think so. As another example: should the US armed forces be required to only purchase American-made weapons and vehicles? Unless I'm mistaken the answer is "hell no" so STFU about some stupid little flags, basically.


Uh, there's an uproar, usually from the right, every time the US Military doesn't buy US made stuff. And generally, they do try to buy US made whenever they can, which is almost always. There isn't a law requiring it, but such a law wouldn't really put much of a dent in our Military procurement.

So try again.
 
2013-06-14 07:34:11 PM
SirEattonHogg:


Made her feel like she was in North Korea?  What a stupid statement. Then why did she come here in the first place?  No one forced her to come to the US.

Well the reference would be that people in communist run countries tend to heavily force worship of their country and its leaders.... but it's okay, I know it was much easier for you to just lash out.

darkroom.baltimoresun.com
 
2013-06-14 07:34:52 PM

cptjeff: Jument: I don't think so. As another example: should the US armed forces be required to only purchase American-made weapons and vehicles? Unless I'm mistaken the answer is "hell no" so STFU about some stupid little flags, basically.

Uh, there's an uproar, usually from the right, every time the US Military doesn't buy US made stuff. And generally, they do try to buy US made whenever they can, which is almost always. There isn't a law requiring it, but such a law wouldn't really put much of a dent in our Military procurement.

So try again.


Buy America Act. there is already a law that requires it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buy_American_Act
 
2013-06-14 07:35:20 PM
At what point did the flag become more important than the people that make up the nation?

This free market jazz can be taken too far and it already has. We have destroyed our ability to make anything except weapons and hamburgers. That's bad.
 
2013-06-14 07:38:44 PM

Bravo Two: mr0x: <BLOCKQUOTE>Should the U.S. government be forced to buy American-made American flags? Ab-so-damn-lutely </BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they shouldn't be.

The whole country of origin thing was made up for tax purposes and now, we use it to judge quality of item and patriotism.

Give something to humans and they will try and find patterns in it and put emotional value to it.

You ask the government to buy "Made in US" flags, pretty soon it will now cost 10 times more and it will still be made in China but stamped made in the USA and smuggled here.

So, instead of supporting businesses here in the US, you'd rather just say "screw it" and go lowest dollar?

I know this is a hard thing to grasp, because "zomg more expensive", but have you stopped to consider that if the government buys the more expensive item made here in the US, that money goes to a company that employs workers here in the US, who then in turn spend those dollars on other goods and services and taxes here in the US? And that that money then flows back up the food chain to the government, who can then reinvest it into other USA-based ventures?

Dumping dollars into foreign goods and importing them is basically retarding our economy. Why? Well, think about it. The person who does a skilled job manufacturing product X makes more money because they have more expertise and specific knowledge than the person who does an unskilled job selling products. That's more money per household, more money spent by that household in the US, and more money that's retained in our economy.

Now, consider: I'm a US-based manufacturer of goods. I employ management and corporate staff, workers to make the goods, and spend money on services to deliver my goods to retail stores.

Those retail stores employ management, corporate staff, and retail workers, who sell my goods.

Those shipping companies employ the same, and are paid both to deliver the raw materials to me and to transport my finished goods.

We've just moved a ...


I believe the majority of economists would disagree with what you wrote, Bravo Two.  When someone in America buys foreign goods, the dollars they spend don't just disappear.  The foreign business that now holds those dollars can either spend those dollars on goods priced in dollars (namely American goods), or can invest those dollars in a dollar based economy (namely the US economy).  The trade deficit we have actually balances out, (and always has), if you include foreign investment.

You description of how buying American helps a community sounds great, but you left out the other half of the equation completely.  All of the people in your example who are now suddenly buying American are lowering their standard of living below where it would be otherwise by buying less efficiently produced, more expensive goods.  And if you spread that analysis across the whole economy, in the long term that loss of efficiency lowers the national standard of living as a whole.

Now, that being said, an argument can be made that when the global economy shifts fast enough, artificial trade barriers are sometimes useful to provide enough time for an affected local industry time to adapt or liquidate in a reasonable time frame, but simply saying "buy American", without taking all the costs to the economy into mind doesn't really make sense.
 
2013-06-14 07:39:47 PM

Dear Jerk: At what point did the flag become more important than the people that make up the nation?

This free market jazz can be taken too far and it already has. We have destroyed our ability to make anything except weapons and hamburgers. That's bad.


I am normally a Libertarian but you make a good point here.
 
2013-06-14 07:40:42 PM
marius2:
Well the reference would be that people in communist run countries tend to heavily force worship of their country and its leaders.... but it's okay, I know it was much easier for you to just lash out.


Pretty much every other country has its own mythology and its symbols of patriotism.

But yeah, pointing out the similarity between North Korea and the US because a number of Americans like to fly their respective flag from their backyard is such a deep intellectual argument/point.
 
2013-06-14 07:41:00 PM

skinink: American made:
[content.wohoho.pl image 500x750]


The tools that formed it were probably milled in Germany or something.
 
2013-06-14 07:42:22 PM
http://www.ruffinflagcompany.net/category_v3.aspx?categoryID=171

American made Confederate flags. No Chinese Rebel flags!
 
2013-06-14 07:45:40 PM

marius2: My Ex-Fiancee was a New Zealander and she said it made her feel like she was in North Korea when she was here.


Lots of guys like the stupid girls.  Nothing wrong with that, if it's what you are into.
 
2013-06-14 07:45:58 PM

WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?


Yep. Jesus let's at least get ONE thing in-house. I have no problem with this whatsoever, and 99% of the time, I think this nationalism and patriotism shiat is just people trying to keep up with the Jonses', with no idea what they are talking about, but government issue flags should have some kind of real national tie.
 
2013-06-14 07:53:13 PM
Thread needs more of this.
cooldudestuff.com
cooldudestuff.com
i.istockimg.com
thisislavie.com
www.punjabigraphics.com
uberhumor.com
content.pyzam.com
 
2013-06-14 07:54:56 PM

jehovahs witness protection: WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?

Unions need the work.


So do the small children of the third world.
 
2013-06-14 07:58:05 PM
I wonder what the Senator would say if the Government agree to this and then decided to buy their flags from a company that was not in the Senator's home state of Ohio?
 
2013-06-14 07:58:29 PM
I would think that it would be more important for all government contract recipients and employees be American made.  That would be more beneficial to Americans and employ more Americans.
 
2013-06-14 07:59:10 PM
The serious question is:  should Americans be forced to make American flags so that the government can be forced to buy them?
 
2013-06-14 08:02:01 PM

whcrow: cptjeff: Jument: I don't think so. As another example: should the US armed forces be required to only purchase American-made weapons and vehicles? Unless I'm mistaken the answer is "hell no" so STFU about some stupid little flags, basically.

Uh, there's an uproar, usually from the right, every time the US Military doesn't buy US made stuff. And generally, they do try to buy US made whenever they can, which is almost always. There isn't a law requiring it, but such a law wouldn't really put much of a dent in our Military procurement.

So try again.

Buy America Act. there is already a law that requires it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buy_American_Act


It doesn't exactly require it (apparently) but I did not know that. I will STFU and GTFO now.
 
2013-06-14 08:02:25 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: FloydA: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?

Annin Flagmakers,  C.F. Flag,J.C. Schultz Enterprises, Inc. / The Flag Source,and Valley Forge Flag.

According to the Flag Manufacturers Association of America.

Thanks

/wasn't really serious, but, thanks


They highlighted one of them on the news this morning. I forget which one, but has been making US flags since the mid 1800's.
 
2013-06-14 08:02:25 PM

Mikey1969: WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?

Yep. Jesus let's at least get ONE thing in-house. I have no problem with this whatsoever, and 99% of the time, I think this nationalism and patriotism shiat is just people trying to keep up with the Jonses', with no idea what they are talking about, but government issue flags should have some kind of real national tie.


Exactly, just like Air Force One shouldn't be an Airbus, and the Beast Shouldn't be a Lexus.
 
2013-06-14 08:02:38 PM

Jument: I don't think so. As another example: should the US armed forces be required to only purchase American-made weapons and vehicles? Unless I'm mistaken the answer is "hell no" so STFU about some stupid little flags, basically.


Hey BAE (British aerospace) makes all of those up-armored humvs.
 
2013-06-14 08:02:44 PM
How do you feel about burning Chinese-made American flags? Should we be outsourcing something that has a element of sacred nationalism?

My answer. Sure, if the true nature of America is profit.*

*It has been since 1869.

pss - see Mark Twain's epic half-page takedown of Jay Gould. Link
 
2013-06-14 08:04:25 PM

Bravo Two: marius2: This is stupid. Why waste money buying flags anyways? Do we really need more reminders of what country we are in? If it's not marking a military base in a foreign country, then there is no point for it at all.

I'm so thankful for the hundreds of flags I see while driving through my town. "Damn, I thought I was in Canada, thank God for the reminder that I'm not! Phew, I better get my flag up soon before they think I'm a Commie!"

Or, you know, showing pride in the fact that you live in the US.


You can be just as proud without a flag.

/Just saying.
 
2013-06-14 08:07:46 PM

FloydA: 1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


So mostly people who don't live in the US.

You also forgot 6) People who confuse "patriotism" with "nationalism"
 
Rat
2013-06-14 08:07:57 PM
Where else can you buy your USA flag, a TAMU flag, and a UT flag alongside a gay pride flag, and be more proud of your purchase!!!

©  http://www.dixieflag.com/about_us/
 
2013-06-14 08:08:34 PM
So if I "have an accident" in my American made flag boxer shorts, do I have to get a boy scout to burn them?
 
2013-06-14 08:09:15 PM

Bravo Two: marius2: Bravo Two:

Or, you know, showing pride in the fact that you live in the US.

Why? What does it matter? Most people have no say in the country they live in (they were born there) why does it make it special? Patriotism (Nationalism) is silly, outdated, and was created to control the lower classes in revolts against the monarchies. What's the point of it today? "USA, USA, USA!" nice, wonderful, jingoism.

How many other countries do you go to that have their national flag flying in the front of many middle-class homes? It's kinda creepy to an extent. I also tend to notice the people that fly these flags also seem to be the ones that rant about the government the most.... that flag represents them too.

I just got back from Vancouver, BC. I saw a lot of Canadian flags and patriotic Canadian goods.  I've seen equal behavior in Ireland, and the UK to some extent.

Why does it matter? To you, it may not. You may see your country as just another plot of land, something to be ambivalent or even embarassed about.  I personally love my country, faults and all. I love the fact that I'm free to do things that others do not get to do. I love the fact that my family participated in the history of this country.  I'm proud of the way people respond to tragedies and come together. That's our country. I'm glad to live here. I have some pride in that.

So, you can believe that nationalism is outdated and silly. I happen to believe it's a valuable thing, especially economically, because it biases towards our own people, as it should. Buy american and help the economy. Buy American and support companies that charge more but sell better quality goods.  Buy American and make sure that your neighbor has a job, keeps the lights on, and can feed his family.

Personally, I'd rather support businesses that favor people HERE than spending money that ultimate goes to support some family in China when people in my own country are starving.


Bah.  Spread the money around and help unite the world as a single nation.
 
2013-06-14 08:12:06 PM
Respect.
 
2013-06-14 08:14:32 PM

positronica: but simply saying "buy American", without taking all the costs to the economy into mind doesn't really make sense.


False. People and money only exist in the US. All other countries, people, and financial transactions are just an illusion put there by the devil to test our faith.
 
2013-06-14 08:19:54 PM
No.
 
2013-06-14 08:23:08 PM

Bravo Two: Personally, I'd rather support businesses that favor people HERE than spending money that ultimate goes to support some family in China when people in my own country are starving.


Because there aren't starving people in China? Because the starving people in China aren't as deserving of your help? I don't understand this line of reasoning.

If you said "I'd rather spend money here because I carefully choose my expenditures to ensure they increase food security and I cannot do that effectively when buying goods from overseas" or "China has inhumane business practices and spending with them will encourage further injustice" you might be on to something. But it's not at all clear to me how simply spending money locally leads to inherently better outcomes, even if you ignore the direct downside to the people who are not "here".
 
2013-06-14 08:25:31 PM

WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?


Why do t we cut out the middle man and use US prison labor instead of the chineese prison labor that makes it now
 
2013-06-14 08:27:34 PM

cardex: Why do t we cut out the middle man and use US prison labor instead of the chineese prison labor that makes it now


Prisoners make more per hour than a Chinese laborer.
 
2013-06-14 08:28:29 PM

Rat: Where else can you buy your USA flag, a TAMU flag, and a UT flag alongside a gay pride flag, and be more proud of your purchase!!!

©  http://www.dixieflag.com/about_us/


Glad to see somebody remembered Dixie Flag Company! Took a tour of the place about a decade ago. The emphasis was definitely on producing high quality work, not cranking out product as quickly as possible. It was not so much a factory than it was a collection of craftspeople who really enjoyed what they were doing. Wish more companies like that existed.
 
2013-06-14 08:35:06 PM
Why is this even an issue.  Of course, whenever possible, government contracts should go to domestic companies rather than foreign ones.  Partly out of symbolism, and partly out of a desire to keep the money essentially "in house" as it were.  If a foreign company wants to compete for a contract, it should provide a clear and compelling reason why its product is better than any domestic product.  I'd also grant an exemption for products that are much cheaper than domestic ones, but then we'd have to get into asking why the products are so much cheaper.  A lot of stuff from places like China is essentially slave labor, which can't be supported under any sense of economy.

It's not just a US thing.  Every country does this when possible.  The US President rolls in a custom Caddy, the Britis PM in a Rolls or Bentley, and the German Chancellor in a Mercedes or BMW.  Every country has a tendency to give preference to domestic brands.  It's just what's done.  Public procurement is not just a pure matter of "whats cheapest wins".
 
2013-06-14 08:46:17 PM

Benjimin_Dover: MaudlinMutantMollusk: FloydA: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?

Annin Flagmakers,  C.F. Flag,J.C. Schultz Enterprises, Inc. / The Flag Source,and Valley Forge Flag.

According to the Flag Manufacturers Association of America.

Thanks

/wasn't really serious, but, thanks

They highlighted one of them on the news this morning. I forget which one, but has been making US flags since the mid 1800's.


Strangely enough, the one in the Senator's state.
 
2013-06-14 08:46:23 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Doesn't the government have enough flags already? How about spending that money on something useful?


this
 
2013-06-14 08:49:39 PM

positronica: FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

So if the government buys more expensive flags, instead of the cheapest, what part of the budget gets cut to make up the difference?  Who has to get paid less so that US flag makers get this extra income?  Aren't the individuals and communities who have to take the cut important?  Or are products focused around symbolic "patriotism" and nationalism more deserving of wasteful spending?

Here's a better suggestion for issues such as this: The government should only buy more expensive products if the industry that produces that product is on the verge of disappearing domestically AND if having that industry be active domestically is considered to be in the nation's vital interests.


Here's an even better idea: what if "the government" was composed of us - you, me, your neighbors, and the people that we know, and "the government" actually worked in the best interests of the people who are citizens of the country?  That would be weird, eh?  What if "the government" decided that American manufacturers were the best sources for our military technology, rather than outsourcing those contracts to the lowest bidder?  What if "the government" decided that roads, railways, bridges, and other necessary parts of our infrastructure should be manufactured here, rather than in China?

Wouldn't that be great?  Of course, it would mean that we would have to stop claiming that "the government" is always wrong and start admitting that "the government" is us, the American people.  That might not go over too well with people who don't like "the government."
 
2013-06-14 08:55:25 PM

FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs


6) People who like feelgood legislation instead of having Congress tackle issues that actually affect us as a country.
 
2013-06-14 08:59:05 PM
Now, you can't be biatching about government spending AND expect the government to pay American prices.
 
2013-06-14 08:59:08 PM

WordyGrrl: Rat: Where else can you buy your USA flag, a TAMU flag, and a UT flag alongside a gay pride flag, and be more proud of your purchase!!!

©  http://www.dixieflag.com/about_us/

Glad to see somebody remembered Dixie Flag Company! Took a tour of the place about a decade ago. The emphasis was definitely on producing high quality work, not cranking out product as quickly as possible. It was not so much a factory than it was a collection of craftspeople who really enjoyed what they were doing. Wish more companies like that existed.


And look at their pricing, $20.30 for a flag with sewn stripes and printed stars.  Not expensive at all.
 
2013-06-14 09:00:19 PM

Slappajo: I don't know.  This is a pretty slippery slope.  The next thing you know there might be legislation requiring Americans to buy something specific...maybe something like health insurance.

I know it's a stretch, but it could happen.


This business of enfolding existing private health insurance policy makers into the Obamacare public system will boost insurance profits through the roof, mark my words. Worst idea for controlling costs since Medicare D did the same thing. Costs for part D are 3 to 4 times what the CBO estimated. I saw it coming, and I told everyone who'd listen but no, nobody listens to an old pharmacist who sees the bullshiat corporations shovel at the government and the citizenry every day.

So I'm telling you now, either totally public or totally private is how to improve the healthcare system, not this bastard devil the insurance companies paid for.
 
2013-06-14 09:03:05 PM

moothemagiccow: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Doesn't the government have enough flags already? How about spending that money on something useful?

this


Outdoor flags need to be replaced pretty regularly, and the military coffin ones have been flying off the shelves over the last dozen years or so... or are you cool with a tattered flag flying at your post office?
 
2013-06-14 09:04:16 PM
Gig103:
I know there is already the Fly American Act which means gov't employees and contractors can't fly non-American carriers for business, and I'm okay with that too.

You've never received a federal research grant, say, from the NSF and used some of the funds to travel internationally (e.g., to a conference), have you?  And subsequently lost two additional days of work needed to make all the weird connections?  And paid about three times the cost to fly as it would have cost if you could have flown a non-American airline?
 
2013-06-14 09:04:30 PM
Meanwhile, we spend billions on debacles and force the purchase of tanks we don't need.

Who farking cares? Its a tiny tiny tiny expense compared to what we knowingly waste.
 
2013-06-14 09:16:21 PM
They can buy American-made flag stickers to plop on their foreign cars.  yay
 
2013-06-14 09:28:56 PM
Why don't you make American-made products tax-free?.
 
2013-06-14 09:32:29 PM

WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?


Yep.

 It's called paying for a "living wage" not supporting farking slavery.

/seems to be a difficult concept for some.
 
2013-06-14 09:34:53 PM

CygnusDarius: Why don't you make American-made products tax-free?.


NAFTA frowns on your protectionism.
 
2013-06-14 09:36:27 PM

cuzsis: WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?

Yep.

 It's called paying for a "living wage" not supporting farking slavery.

/seems to be a difficult concept for some.


Plus American-made products are generally superior to that of other countries, at least where we still have an industry.
 
2013-06-14 09:39:36 PM

sno man: CygnusDarius: Why don't you make American-made products tax-free?.

NAFTA frowns on your protectionism.


I think NAFTA was a big mistake that only benefits a few people, and not the people it's supposed to benefit.
 
2013-06-14 09:59:00 PM

zepillin: so now the Chinese currently making flags with 50% "american made materials"
will have to start making american flags with 100% "american made materials"

I feel so confused by this news article.
I don't think it's saying what it seems to think it's saying.


That was my impression too, "made from American-made materials" isn't the same as "manufactured/assembled in the U.S."
I'm also just baffled why one nation would make another nation's flag, I mean it just sounds ridiculous.  Flags aren't some novelty good, they're a country's colors.  If you can't make your own flag/colors, what the hell kind of country are you?  Not to mention the idea of another nation, one who we're so economically in bed with that we keep forgetting they've never really stopped being the enemy yet we keep a blind eye turned to all their disregard for basic human rights, this other nation is authorized to produce millions of our colors?
 
2013-06-14 09:59:19 PM

CygnusDarius: sno man: CygnusDarius: Why don't you make American-made products tax-free?.

NAFTA frowns on your protectionism.

I think NAFTA was a big mistake that only benefits a few people, and not the people it's supposed to benefit.


Sitting on the generally north side of the border... America does fine bending rules and regs to suit their benefit, that were set up under NAFTA, mostly without penalty... but yea only a few actually benefit from that bending.
 
2013-06-14 09:59:31 PM

EvilEgg: So does it have to be made from US cotton


YES


woven into cloth in the US

YES

dyed with dyes made from ingredients completely sourced from the US

YES


Or does just final assembly have to be in the US?

ALL OF THE ABOVE.
 
2013-06-14 10:04:32 PM

Kittypie070: EvilEgg: So does it have to be made from US cotton

YES

woven into cloth in the US

YES

dyed with dyes made from ingredients completely sourced from the US

YES

Or does just final assembly have to be in the US?

ALL OF THE ABOVE.


I would wear that.
 
2013-06-14 10:12:04 PM

positronica: You description of how buying American helps a community sounds great, but you left out the other half of the equation completely. All of the people in your example who are now suddenly buying American are lowering their standard of living below where it would be otherwise by buying less efficiently produced, more expensive goods. And if you spread that analysis across the whole economy, in the long term that loss of efficiency lowers the national standard of living as a whole.


What about the social costs that unemployment and lack of job security bring?
 
2013-06-14 10:19:37 PM

skinink: American made:


She's wearing the flag upside down (stars on bottom)... This means she needs to be rescued.

Unfortunately, my rescue attempt may very well end up being very unrespectful of the flag.
 
2013-06-14 10:24:20 PM

DrewCurtisJr: positronica: You description of how buying American helps a community sounds great, but you left out the other half of the equation completely. All of the people in your example who are now suddenly buying American are lowering their standard of living below where it would be otherwise by buying less efficiently produced, more expensive goods. And if you spread that analysis across the whole economy, in the long term that loss of efficiency lowers the national standard of living as a whole.

What about the social costs that unemployment and lack of job security bring?


It doesn't cause unemployment in the long term. In the long term those people that would have been in manufacturing jobs move to other professions: electronics, chemistry, computing, etc. Or putting that another way, if we protected our manufacturing jobs back in the 80's we wouldn't have the lead in computing that Intel, Apple, or Google gave us.

You might like to say that we need to keep those manufacturing jobs, but I sure hope that you're not wishing for those jobs for your children.
 
2013-06-14 10:28:03 PM

JuggleGeek: Pass a law that says they have to be american made, and what you'll most likely end up with is illegal aliens in a sweat shop sewing factory or something similar.  I like the idea, but I'm not convinced it would work the way people want.


They'll be made in Samoa or Guam.
 
2013-06-14 10:31:22 PM

Chagrin: It doesn't cause unemployment in the long term. In the long term those people that would have been in manufacturing jobs move to other professions: electronics, chemistry, computing, etc. Or putting that another way, if we protected our manufacturing jobs back in the 80's we wouldn't have the lead in computing that Intel, Apple, or Google gave us.


I don't see that connection. Would we have fewer doctors if we had a lot more manufacturing jobs? We have a large under class, people struggling to find middle class jobs and maybe a stable schedule with some job security. Giving those people jobs won't siphon workers from Google. Probably would also mean fewer people in prison.
 
2013-06-14 10:41:37 PM

nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?



Lobbyists.
 
2013-06-14 10:48:34 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?


Arkansas Flag and Banner
 
2013-06-14 10:51:38 PM

gfid: FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

6) People who like feelgood legislation instead of having Congress tackle issues that actually affect us as a country.


I dunno.  I was under the impression that the GOP's promised "laser-like focus on jobs" might include something like, for instance, jobs.

Was I naive about that?
 
2013-06-14 10:58:29 PM

wildlifer: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?

Arkansas Flag and Banner


Excellent, thanks, I needed a new American flag vinyl sticker for my car.  It was so cheap that I had money left over for a month of TF for you.
 
2013-06-14 11:04:57 PM

IronTom: wildlifer: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?

Arkansas Flag and Banner

Excellent, thanks, I needed a new American flag vinyl sticker for my car.  It was so cheap that I had money left over for a month of TF for you.


Thank you kind sir.
 
2013-06-14 11:15:24 PM

wildlifer: IronTom: wildlifer: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Are there even any manufacturers left in the US?

Arkansas Flag and Banner

Excellent, thanks, I needed a new American flag vinyl sticker for my car.  It was so cheap that I had money left over for a month of TF for you.

Thank you kind sir.


You're welcome!  Enjoy.
 
2013-06-14 11:36:20 PM
Bravo Two:

Personally, I'd rather support businesses that favor people HERE than spending money that ultimate goes to support some family in China when people in my own country are starving.

Where do you find people in America who are starving? Or I should say starving against their will, because they can't get food? Most of our population is urban, most our urban areas have SNAP (formerly known as Food Stamps) offices, soup kitchens, food banks, even anarchists "illegally" feeding people for free on the street. Obesity is more of a problem than starvation. Except in a few situations where the person is physically unable to get to where the food is, whether by being locked in a closet or disabled with uncaring "caretakers," it's easy keep from starving. Your average homeless guy might sport a decent paunch.

This doesn't mean all the food you get is healthy, tasty or prepared right, some neighborhoods don't have grocery stores and charities have to do the best they can with what they can get, but unless you're unable to get to the food or have it brought to you, or just too damn arrogant to stand in line for it, you ain't gonna starve. This isn't some war-torn region in Africa you can't grow anything and whose warlords care more for their Mercedes and mercenaries than anything else: this is America, the land of caloric plenty, where you can see somebody who weighs 400# and be sure right off that s/he's poor as shiat. Steal a bolt-cutter and open up the dumpsters if you want free healthy vegetables: only the outer leaves of the cabbage are likely to be wilted, for example, and as for the dirt & germs well you're gonna farking boil it anyway right?

As far as I can see we've pretty much solved the hunger problem in America. We didn't eliminate hunger in the world by the year 2000, but we did turn ourselves into a nation of porkers. This is progress! USA! USA!
 
2013-06-14 11:41:57 PM

marius2: obamadidcoke:

The Brits seem totally mystified about our flag fetish.

My Ex-Fiancee was a New Zealander and she said it made her feel like she was in North Korea when she was here.

/I brought her to Wal-Mart once and she threw up in the parking lot.


I have an ex GF from Australia and it was much the same.

"What the fark mate? They afraid they will forget what country they live in? This is sick.. this is sick fetishism"

/And it was before 2001
 
2013-06-14 11:59:27 PM
Meh. "I leave symbols to the symbol minded"
 
2013-06-15 12:08:13 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Chagrin: It doesn't cause unemployment in the long term. In the long term those people that would have been in manufacturing jobs move to other professions: electronics, chemistry, computing, etc. Or putting that another way, if we protected our manufacturing jobs back in the 80's we wouldn't have the lead in computing that Intel, Apple, or Google gave us.

I don't see that connection. Would we have fewer doctors if we had a lot more manufacturing jobs? We have a large under class, people struggling to find middle class jobs and maybe a stable schedule with some job security. Giving those people jobs won't siphon workers from Google. Probably would also mean fewer people in prison.


Precisely. One of the reasons for our exploding prison population over the last 40 years is that dipshiats who were truly best suited to bolting part A to part B forever and ever no longer have that option. Instead, they have to snatch purses, steal cars, or peddle bags of crack or meth to get by.
 
2013-06-15 02:04:06 AM

The One True TheDavid: Officially used US flags, including those of states, towns and counties, should be made here. As should military and police uniforms (including footwear), judges' robes and the gavels they bang with, etc. etc. Every American governmental agency should support American products and American labor.


Which means you are just supporting inefficient industries that are bound to fail sooner or later anyway. If you want to support American products, put leaders in to office that understand the importance of education and innovation.

You don't need low-end production like flags and textiles, that can be better done in cheaper countries. The problem is those cheaper countries will develop as well.  So the focus should be on keeping your edge, keep improving, and focusing on the high value added, high quality products instead of protecting doomed industries.
 
2013-06-15 02:12:13 AM

forgotmydamnusername: DrewCurtisJr: Chagrin: It doesn't cause unemployment in the long term. In the long term those people that would have been in manufacturing jobs move to other professions: electronics, chemistry, computing, etc. Or putting that another way, if we protected our manufacturing jobs back in the 80's we wouldn't have the lead in computing that Intel, Apple, or Google gave us.

I don't see that connection. Would we have fewer doctors if we had a lot more manufacturing jobs? We have a large under class, people struggling to find middle class jobs and maybe a stable schedule with some job security. Giving those people jobs won't siphon workers from Google. Probably would also mean fewer people in prison.

Precisely. One of the reasons for our exploding prison population over the last 40 years is that dipshiats who were truly best suited to bolting part A to part B forever and ever no longer have that option. Instead, they have to snatch purses, steal cars, or peddle bags of crack or meth to get by.


That's a short/medium term problem, that is however been prolonged in the U.S. by the fact that the education systems sucks, there a weak social security system and generally weak central government which allows for little steering in the transition period, because that would be socialism of course.

If you don't do that, it simply means that a certain moment you'll have a large enough uneducated/poor/unemployed population to start cheap production again, which means that in a few decades or so the U.S. might be producing low added value products for the Chinese instead of the other way around.
 
2013-06-15 03:08:55 AM

gadian: Now, you can't be biatching about government spending AND expect the government to pay American prices.


Actually that is the ideal for a lot of people.  Force the government to buy American made flags, point out how much more expensive American made flags are, create outrage at irresponsible government employees who are too stupid to get the best price on flags.

It's the Post Office dilemma on a smaller scale.
 
2013-06-15 03:10:23 AM

IronTom: cuzsis: WorldCitizen: So US taxpayers should be forced to pay higher prices for the same product?

Yep.

 It's called paying for a "living wage" not supporting farking slavery.

/seems to be a difficult concept for some.

Plus American-made products are generally superior to that of other countries, at least where we still have an industry.


True.
 
2013-06-15 03:12:11 AM

The One True TheDavid: Officially used US flags, including those of states, towns and counties, should be made here. As should military and police uniforms (including footwear), judges' robes and the gavels they bang with, etc. etc. Every American governmental agency should support American products and American labor.


So utter farkwits like you can turn right back around and complain that they are wasting money by not going with the low bid.  How convenient.
 
2013-06-15 04:52:56 AM

Shadow Blasko: marius2: obamadidcoke:

The Brits seem totally mystified about our flag fetish.

My Ex-Fiancee was a New Zealander and she said it made her feel like she was in North Korea when she was here.

/I brought her to Wal-Mart once and she threw up in the parking lot.

I have an ex GF from Australia and it was much the same.

"What the fark mate? They afraid they will forget what country they live in? This is sick.. this is sick fetishism"

/And it was before 2001


What's ago offensive about the flag though?
 
2013-06-15 04:55:48 AM

Mellotiger: Shadow Blasko: marius2: obamadidcoke:

The Brits seem totally mystified about our flag fetish.

My Ex-Fiancee was a New Zealander and she said it made her feel like she was in North Korea when she was here.

/I brought her to Wal-Mart once and she threw up in the parking lot.

I have an ex GF from Australia and it was much the same.

"What the fark mate? They afraid they will forget what country they live in? This is sick.. this is sick fetishism"

/And it was before 2001

What's ago offensive about the flag though?


So, not ago. must be bed time.
 
2013-06-15 06:05:53 AM
1.  How manyPatriotism Points do I get for buying American?

2. How many do I need to save up to buy a Senator?
 
2013-06-15 06:59:00 AM
USA flags made in the USA should be made of hemp. Just like the one Betsy rolled out.
 
2013-06-15 09:42:18 AM

FloydA: gfid: FloydA: nekom: Here's a good question:  Who the hell cares?


1) Flag makers
2) People who live in communities where flag manufacturing plants are located and work in support industries
3) People who produce the material from which flags are made
4) People who live in the communities where those materials are produced and work in support industries
5) People who think "patriotism" should be more than just empty rhetoric and misspelled protest signs

6) People who like feelgood legislation instead of having Congress tackle issues that actually affect us as a country.

I dunno.  I was under the impression that the GOP's promised "laser-like focus on jobs" might include something like, for instance, jobs.

Was I naive about that?


The fact that you actually listen to what either Dumbocrat or Repube says they are going to do is naive.
 
2013-06-15 09:50:11 AM

sno man: skinink: American made:
[content.wohoho.pl image 500x750]

the silicone too?


Dow Corning still makes silicone goo in Michigan, AFAIK.
 
2013-06-15 10:14:26 AM
I burned 5 American flags last night

/American Legion Post 127, Buford, GA
//Flag retirement.
 
2013-06-15 10:33:48 AM

LibertyHiller: sno man: skinink: American made:
[content.wohoho.pl image 500x750]

the silicone too?

Dow Corning still makes silicone goo in Michigan, AFAIK.


The more you know!
 
2013-06-15 12:37:37 PM
If capitalism and free trade are things American's value - then it seems we should buy whatever flags are the best.
If government regulation and close-trade policies are things American's value - then we should require flags to be made in America.

I don't care one way or another - but I always find it odd how many American's take pride in saying they value X while actually supporting laws in direct contrast to Y.  Particularly around things like Freedom and Free Speech.  We say it's great; but so many of us support laws that go against them.  Which again, I'm fine with - but American's just can't seem to accept they DON'T ACTUALLY want freedom.
 
2013-06-15 03:31:11 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: If capitalism and free trade are things American's value - then it seems we should buy whatever flags are the best.
If government regulation and close-trade policies are things American's value - then we should require flags to be made in America.


What is wrong with saying we value the combination of the two approaches that achieves that best balance of results (however you want to define those), especially in a world of an unlevel playing field of worker rights and regulations?
 
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