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(Gizmodo)   Gizmodo gets down the real root of Xbox One hate: You're too poor, but you don't want to admit you're poor so you come up with silly reasons like DRM, always-online, and spying to justify not buying it   (gizmodo.com) divider line 535
    More: Stupid, Xbox, DRM, roots, hate  
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6516 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jun 2013 at 1:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 11:20:55 AM  
So how much did Microsoft pay them for this article? $1 Million? $2 Million?
 
2013-06-14 11:21:13 AM  
Someone needs to tell this clod that people were freaking out over what Microsoft was doing with XBox One well before the price was even announced.
 
2013-06-14 11:25:16 AM  
That's it, make fun of your audience and call them stupid and poor. That's a great way to continue staying in business.
 
2013-06-14 11:27:46 AM  
We're buying one.   We're already always connected, don't buy physical discs anymore or buy/sell used games, nor do we believe that Microsoft will be 'spying' on us.   We're not hardcore gamers, opposite in fact.  So, we're pretty excited about it.

*shrugs*   price is a little steep but the console should last us a long time.
 
2013-06-14 11:29:12 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: That's it, make fun of your audience and call them stupid and poor. That's a great way to continue staying in business.


Well, alienating your core user base IS the Microsoft business plan.  They're just toeing the line.
 
2013-06-14 11:29:31 AM  
Well, doesn't that make for the same results?

Whether we're not buying the product because it's a POS, or because we're poor, or because we don't like the secondary market (which allows US, rather than Dev Shops, to recoup some money), or we're MS-haters, we're not buying your product.

So...have fun being smugly right (and now, ironically, also poorer)?
 
2013-06-14 11:31:04 AM  
It's interesting me to see how things have changed.

Five years ago people were shrieking about Sony's high price point and the whole rootkit thing from 2002.

Now, people are shrieking about MS's DRM and high price point.
 
2013-06-14 11:33:33 AM  
I wouldn't buy one if I wasn't poor, either
 
2013-06-14 11:35:27 AM  
I'm a playstation man and I'm going to stay that way.
 
2013-06-14 11:36:24 AM  

raerae1980: price is a little steep but the console should last us a long time.


Unless it's like the last generation of consoles that broke all the damn time.
 
2013-06-14 11:36:31 AM  
Synopsis: The cost of making games is expensive, so everything Xbox has put forth so far is valid. Even the used games bit.

So why isn't Sony doing all of the same things?
 
2013-06-14 11:38:19 AM  
I waste enough time as it is. I count myself among the lucky whose gaming peaked with MUDs and Nintendo 64. I avoid modern consoles or, God forbid, MMORPGs like the plague.

/would be the end of me
 
2013-06-14 11:38:29 AM  

Honest Bender: Unless it's like the last generation of consoles that broke all the damn time.


And if it is a re-run of the Red Ring of Death, buying one means you forfeit your ability to collectively sue Microsoft.
 
2013-06-14 11:40:41 AM  

Honest Bender: raerae1980: price is a little steep but the console should last us a long time.

Unless it's like the last generation of consoles that broke all the damn time.


Our 360 is first-generation.   It's slow now but it is 7 years old.  Never got that ring of death either.   *shrugs*
 
2013-06-14 11:41:46 AM  

Shostie: It's interesting me to see how things have changed.

Five years ago people were shrieking about Sony's high price point and the whole rootkit thing from 2002.

Now, people are shrieking about MS's DRM and high price point.


It's the 3rd console curse. The first console is pretty bare bones to try and get your foot into the industry (PS1/Xbox). You need to do some pretty big things to win people over from other companies and play it very safe at the same time.

The second console is where you go big. You do some really innovative stuff that impresses the hell out of both customers and developers.

Unfortunately the success of your second console carries an over-inflated ego going into the 3rd generation. By that point you think you can do no wrong as you did so well in previous generations. You start to take advantage of your customer base assuming they'll follow no matter what. It bit Sony in the ass last generation. Was the PS3 a failure? Not at all, but it definitely did not do as well as it could have and they lost a lot of market share to the 360 and Wii.

Microsoft did not learn from other's past mistakes and is now doomed to repeat them.
 
2013-06-14 11:43:25 AM  
Don't be ridiculous.  That's why people hate Macs.
 
2013-06-14 11:44:02 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: That's it, make fun of your audience and call them stupid and poor. That's a great way to continue staying in business.


In fairness, it worked when his dad used it on his mom.
 
2013-06-14 11:46:19 AM  

raerae1980: Our 360 is first-generation.   It's slow now but it is 7 years old.  Never got that ring of death either.   *shrugs*


Mine is first-gen and probably about that old, too.  I was thinking of picking up a new one to get me through the next year because I want a quieter machine.  But I've never had a problem with this one.
 
2013-06-14 12:04:25 PM  
What makes all the poors think they deserve the nice things us richers can afford anyway, amirite?
 
2013-06-14 12:13:18 PM  
Microsoft:  fark you if you can't take a joke.™
 
2013-06-14 12:19:18 PM  

vartian: Synopsis: The cost of making games is expensive, so everything Xbox has put forth so far is valid. Even the used games bit.

So why isn't Sony doing all of the same things?


They did. Remember the PSP Go?
 
2013-06-14 12:32:57 PM  

toraque: cameroncrazy1984: That's it, make fun of your audience and call them stupid and poor. That's a great way to continue staying in business.

Well, alienating your core user base IS the Microsoft business plan.  They're just toeing the line.


I've noticed the main line of attack from shills, astroturfers, and fanboys is the aggressive "stop being poor" line.

I'm not poor. I could sell one of my video cards and get an Xbox One. I just don't give enough of a junk to put up with it. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. Although I can't see why so many people it's obviously not the product for complain about it so loudly. I don't care about the thing, I've got my own hobby of dicking with my gaming machine.

The price itself doesn't seem to be the problem, it's the value. You're paying to get shafted with things like the daily check in. It adds no value to the customer. It's not a defensible choice without Microsoft being honest, and they refuse to be honest as to why. It's likely easier to berate the haters than to cop to the fact they'll make buckets more money if they control their platform more tightly to aggressively push against secondary markets and illegal copies of games.

If you're not OK with that, and if the product isn't of value to you at that price, then Xbox isn't the toy for you. This should be obvious, and that explanation should be fine for everybody. But the haters pile on, and in return Microsoft takes possibly the most insulting defense of their product imaginable.
 
2013-06-14 12:33:46 PM  
My friend works for a game developer. They get reports from GameStop on their games bought and sold. On average, the same exact copy of their games are sold ten times. Ten freaking times. That's nine copies that the developer never got a cut of. You think that kind of business model isn't seriously putting a crimp in their bottom line?

I'm a big proponent of the Steam model. Yes, it was difficult getting over the mental block that I couldn't give my games to my friends and my friends couldn't give their games to me, but we DID get over it. Gaming is still a ridiculously cheap form of entertainment, even if you pay full price for everything.

I've played over 500 hours of Left 4 Dead. Sixty bucks divided by 500 hours comes out to 12 cents an hour.

Skyrim? At least 40 hours. That's a buck fifty per hour of playing a really awesome game that probably would have made my 12-year-old head literally explode had I seen what gaming would be. And I'm probably going to put at least another 40 into the game.

Try spending only a buck fifty an hour at an arcade. Or pretty much anything that you do outside of your house.

The "Xbox One needs to phone home at least once a day" thing is really not an issue except for soldiers deployed in the middle of nowhere and people living in the middle of nowhere. And people that like to steal games.
 
2013-06-14 12:37:19 PM  

Lando Lincoln: My friend works for a game developer. They get reports from GameStop on their games bought and sold. On average, the same exact copy of their games are sold ten times. Ten freaking times. That's nine copies that the developer never got a cut of. You think that kind of business model isn't seriously putting a crimp in their bottom line?


Should Toyota get a cut every time one of their cars is sold used?
 
2013-06-14 12:41:09 PM  

Mentat: Lando Lincoln: My friend works for a game developer. They get reports from GameStop on their games bought and sold. On average, the same exact copy of their games are sold ten times. Ten freaking times. That's nine copies that the developer never got a cut of. You think that kind of business model isn't seriously putting a crimp in their bottom line?

Should Toyota get a cut every time one of their cars is sold used?


Should we address the issue at hand instead of going off on other tangents?
 
2013-06-14 12:45:27 PM  

palladiate: Although I can't see why so many people it's obviously not the product for complain about it so loudly.


It establishes a trend in the gaming industry.  Just because I don't plan on buying an Xbox doesn't mean I don't have a vested interest in the direction the gaming industry takes.
 
2013-06-14 12:50:53 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Mentat: Lando Lincoln: My friend works for a game developer. They get reports from GameStop on their games bought and sold. On average, the same exact copy of their games are sold ten times. Ten freaking times. That's nine copies that the developer never got a cut of. You think that kind of business model isn't seriously putting a crimp in their bottom line?

Should Toyota get a cut every time one of their cars is sold used?

Should we address the issue at hand instead of going off on other tangents?


Isn't that the issue at hand? Libraries lend out books hundreds or thousands of times. Should authors get a cut of that too? Why are video games different? Toyotas are much more expensive to produce than video games.
 
2013-06-14 12:51:51 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Should we address the issue at hand instead of going off on other tangents?


I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.

If you've paid for a product to own outright, resale should be up to the consumer. In fact, how the product is used should be up to the consumer (one of the biggest reasons I can't stand, say, smartphones packaged with uninstallable bloatware). Why should a game be different from something else?
 
2013-06-14 12:59:21 PM  

TwistedIvory: Lando Lincoln: Should we address the issue at hand instead of going off on other tangents?

I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.

If you've paid for a product to own outright, resale should be up to the consumer. In fact, how the product is used should be up to the consumer (one of the biggest reasons I can't stand, say, smartphones packaged with uninstallable bloatware). Why should a game be different from something else?


Because with a game (or other digital intellectual property) you're actually just buying a license to use the property.  You don't actually "own" it, even if you own the disc the property is on.
 
2013-06-14 01:00:59 PM  

Honest Bender: It establishes a trend in the gaming industry.  Just because I don't plan on buying an Xbox doesn't mean I don't have a vested interest in the direction the gaming industry takes.


Possibly, but the gaming industry is far larger than the Xbox ecosystem, and a good bit of their boneheaded decisions will certainly damage their market share. Right now, tons of military guys are playing their Xbox 360. In two years, without serious changes, the system of choice likely won't be the Xbox.

Now, you can always argue that any one user base is worth sacrificing. But like with Windows, once you start sacrificing functionality that people need, you'll lose people. If, tomorrow, you could play every Windows game on Mac or Linux just as easily, plenty of people might switch. Then you see a larger market for productivity software, or improvements in current suites. With more people using them at home, you'll see more people comfortable with them at the office.

We're a major tech company and we've got plenty of Macs and Oracle Linux machines. A lot of our infrastructure guys have no need to load a Windows box ever. Once upon a time, everyone here had Windows on their machines, and loaded a VM or SSHed into a Unix system whenever they needed to.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's a lot easier to wield your monopoly power with customers and monopsony power with developers when, you know, you're a monopoly. The more people that walk off, the faster others will too. I'd be more concerned with their decisions if their competition wasn't jumping at the chance to dickslap them. Just look at Sony's marketing campaign for the PS4. It's full of ragging on Microsoft's boneheaded decisions. Which says a lot when it's coming from the king of boneheaded decisions.
 
2013-06-14 01:02:09 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Lando Lincoln: Mentat: Lando Lincoln: My friend works for a game developer. They get reports from GameStop on their games bought and sold. On average, the same exact copy of their games are sold ten times. Ten freaking times. That's nine copies that the developer never got a cut of. You think that kind of business model isn't seriously putting a crimp in their bottom line?

Should Toyota get a cut every time one of their cars is sold used?

Should we address the issue at hand instead of going off on other tangents?

Isn't that the issue at hand? Libraries lend out books hundreds or thousands of times. Should authors get a cut of that too? Why are video games different? Toyotas are much more expensive to produce than video games.


No, it's not the issue at hand. Compared to video games, cars are pretty damn expensive to continue using. You buy a video game, you play it, you're done. You don't have to keep feeding it anything but electricity to keep using it. You don't have to buy insurance to continue using video games, they don't require license plate stickers, they don't require you to take it for emissions testing. In short, it's a stupid comparison.

So let's stick to the issue at hand.
 
2013-06-14 01:05:46 PM  

Lando Lincoln: So let's stick to the issue at hand.


Okay. So basically, you think the first-sale doctrine shouldn't apply to software?
 
2013-06-14 01:09:49 PM  
When I was young and poor I cared about things like free music and not pirating things.

Now I have disposable income, I don't really give a crap. QQ all you want about digital media, I'm still going to buy it and get all my games digital and never sell them back. It's convenient to not have shelves of discs. Also I've got games for xbox 360 that are still in the plastic. Bought them and never even opened them up to play them. u mad?
 
2013-06-14 01:13:02 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: Someone needs to tell this clod that people were freaking out over what Microsoft was doing with XBox One well before the price was even announced.


This was written on May 28th
 
2013-06-14 01:13:25 PM  
Maybe I'm poor AND I don't want DRM, always online and spying.
 
2013-06-14 01:14:23 PM  
s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-06-14 01:17:07 PM  

BravadoGT: Because with a game (or other digital intellectual property) you're actually just buying a license to use the property. You don't actually "own" it, even if you own the disc the property is on.


Okay, (I'm not much of a gamer) -- so "purchase" is a misnomer. When you shell out cash for a game, is it less "purchasing" and more "leasing" then?
 
2013-06-14 01:19:23 PM  
I'd like to disagree, but if I was still 13 and had to rake leaves and mow lawns for my gaming cash, I'd be all types of pissed. But I'm grown and luckily have disposable income, so I just do not care at all.

That said, I'm not buying at launch in case it's a disaster.
 
2013-06-14 01:19:57 PM  
I thought the Fark headline had to be exaggerating, but no, that's what the whole article is about, and the justification the writer makes for his argument are so bad that I'm amazed he can rub two braincells together to type it out.
 
2013-06-14 01:20:03 PM  
I'll remember that the next time some console whore is yelling and screaming that my gaming PC is stupid because it costs too much.
 
2013-06-14 01:20:52 PM  
I never got around to buying any of the 2nd gen consoles. I guess a Wii is 2nd gen, but I only bought that so my girlfriend could play Wii bowling.

I won't be buying any of this generation of consoles either. I have too many games on the PC already.
 
2013-06-14 01:22:44 PM  
If we're so poor and not worth having, then feel free to release it as-is.
 
2013-06-14 01:23:23 PM  
By the same logic;  You're too uninteresting.  But you don't want to admit that you're uninteresting, so you complain about the NSA spying on you.
 
2013-06-14 01:23:24 PM  
LOL, No.  I'm far from broke.  I'll be building a new PC at the end of the year for BF4 and The Witcher 3.  I'll also get a Wii U and PS4 someday once they have some exclusives worth buying a system for.  Not to mention my 3DS I'm also eying a few games for later this year.  I won't be getting an Xbone though.  Just like I didn't get the 360, or the original Xbox.  If you have a gaming PC (Which you should, if you like games), there's absolutely no need for an Xbox.  Just get a PS for the great games that don't make it to PC, like Demon's Souls and RDR.  Sony has much better exclusives compared to MS.  Halo and Gears are overrated Mountain Dew and Doritos ads.
 
2013-06-14 01:23:31 PM  

Shostie: It's interesting me to see how things have changed.

Five years ago people were shrieking about Sony's high price point and the whole rootkit thing from 2002.

Now, people are shrieking about MS's DRM and high price point.


You realize, adjusted for inflation, the PS4 is cheaper than the PS2? (and is cheaper than PS3 at launch, outright?)

Whether Sony's recovered from the Rootkit thing, YMMV.
 
2013-06-14 01:23:51 PM  

raerae1980: We're buying one.   We're already always connected, don't buy physical discs anymore or buy/sell used games, nor do we believe that Microsoft will be 'spying' on us.   We're not hardcore gamers, opposite in fact.  So, we're pretty excited about it.

*shrugs*   price is a little steep but the console should last us a long time.


The console will last you as long as every console around 5-8 years and by the time they get around to replacing it you will be begging for an update to the latest hardware as the advances in graphics and processing power make the console look like an antique.
 
2013-06-14 01:23:51 PM  
OH yea?! I'll show you Microsoft I"ll BUY TWO xbox ones! That will teach you for calling me poor for not liking your crappy console.
 
2013-06-14 01:23:52 PM  

BravadoGT: TwistedIvory: Lando Lincoln: Should we address the issue at hand instead of going off on other tangents?

I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.

If you've paid for a product to own outright, resale should be up to the consumer. In fact, how the product is used should be up to the consumer (one of the biggest reasons I can't stand, say, smartphones packaged with uninstallable bloatware). Why should a game be different from something else?

Because with a game (or other digital intellectual property) you're actually just buying a license to use the property.  You don't actually "own" it, even if you own the disc the property is on.


So... no libraries... and no used books? 'Cause that's exactly the same thing.
 
rpm
2013-06-14 01:23:56 PM  

palladiate: The price itself doesn't seem to be the problem, it's the value. You're paying to get shafted with things like the daily check in. It adds no value to the customer. It's not a defensible choice without Microsoft being honest, and they refuse to be honest as to why. It's likely easier to berate the haters than to cop to the fact they'll make buckets more money if they control their platform more tightly to aggressively push against secondary markets and illegal copies of games.


This. $500 isn't a small amount of money to me, but neither is it an amount I would hesitate to spend on something that I felt would be worth it. One could be $0.01 and I still wouldn't touch it.
 
2013-06-14 01:25:21 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Mentat: Lando Lincoln: My friend works for a game developer. They get reports from GameStop on their games bought and sold. On average, the same exact copy of their games are sold ten times. Ten freaking times. That's nine copies that the developer never got a cut of. You think that kind of business model isn't seriously putting a crimp in their bottom line?

Should Toyota get a cut every time one of their cars is sold used?

Should we address the issue at hand instead of going off on other tangents?


Three words: First. Sale. Doctrine.

After the book is published and sold once, you no longer have a right to it.
 
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