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(Al Jazeera)   It turns out Japan is now getting around its constitutional ban on a navy by calling their new ship part of a "self-defense force with serving members." What could possibly go wrong?   (aljazeera.com) divider line 156
    More: Scary, Japan, Sea of Japan, particle displacement, flight suit, Shinzo Abe, Liberal Democratic Party, elephants, navies  
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8057 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 01:11:00 PM

HypnozombieX: Why don't they just change their constitution? [...] At this point it's just going to mean WE will have to fight their wars.


The second sentence answers the first.
 
2013-06-14 01:13:24 PM
Time to remove that constitutional restriction.  The U.S. Navy way overmatches every other navy in the world, possibly combined.  The region needs a counterbalance to China anyway.
 
2013-06-14 01:19:30 PM
Clandestine military buildup?

They took a lesson from you-know-who.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-14 01:30:28 PM
Oooooooooo~~~~, those Scary Japs!
 
2013-06-14 01:32:06 PM
Has anybody mentioned yet that Japan has had a military for decades and that they get around the ban by calling it a "Self-Defence Force?"
 
2013-06-14 01:38:31 PM
I think, perhaps, America should rescind that new Constitution. Frankly, that's Draconian.
 
2013-06-14 01:40:34 PM
I don't think it is time to amend their constitution. I think they need to disband their SDF and have thought this for quite some time. If another country wants to go terrorize Japan, rape their citizens, kill them, etc? They should have as easy a time as possible doing so. I will consider changing my mind when they stop worshiping war criminals. That may not be enough for me to change my mind though. Oh, and Okinawa? That belongs to us. We earned it.
 
2013-06-14 01:41:59 PM

King Something: Has anybody mentioned yet that Japan has had a military for decades and that they get around the ban by calling it a "Self-Defence Force?"


I think everyone knows that. Well, anyone who is commenting should know that. They can even amend their constitution to allow for a straight up military.
 
2013-06-14 01:56:06 PM

silverjets: James!: I think we can trust the Japanese with a military at this point.  It's been 70 years.

You'd think.  But you can bet the Chinese and the Koreans will speak out against this.

When it came to "grievous acts of violence during wartime" I'd say the Germans were on par with the Japanese, if not having surpassed them, but the Germans weren't required to give up their military.


probably the same reason why German Americans  weren't rounded up and put in camps.
 
2013-06-14 02:04:07 PM
Twenty minutes out into the open waters of the Sea of Japan, and our destination came  into view. The Hyuga, the flagship naval vessel of the SDF, is the length of two football fields. With a water displacement of 13950 tons, it is a massive ship. Its flat-top deck can operate 11 helicopters, and we are told, could, if necessary, carry certain kinds of fighter jets.

LOL.. good thing he didn't fly by the IHI marine united yokohama shipyard currently building the 22DDH..

nextnavy.com

Bigger one above is the new 22DDH class

Below is Hyuga Class from the article
 
2013-06-14 02:14:28 PM

HotWingConspiracy: I just read that Chinese military scholars have decided they might actually own Okinawa, that might have something to do with it.


Being called "Chinese" is probably the only thing Okinawans would like even less than being called "Japanese."
 
2013-06-14 02:22:29 PM

dbirchall: HotWingConspiracy: I just read that Chinese military scholars have decided they might actually own Okinawa, that might have something to do with it.

Being called "Chinese" is probably the only thing Okinawans would like even less than being called "Japanese."


I'll admit my travels in Pacific/Asia have been limited (Philippines, Thailand, Korea, Okinawa, etc) but if there's any one group they can agree on hating, it's the Chinese. Well, maybe the Russians, who were referred to as "Americans without money."
 
2013-06-14 02:30:22 PM
i have absolutely zero issue with the japanese rearming at this poitn. they've shown they're a  responsible democracy with good institutions.

they've had their nationalistic wings clipped and arent goign to be using their military in foolish imperialistic ventures around the world and as DB said in OP the world could use a counterweight to china in the region that isnt the US.

indeed wtf are we even still doing in that part of the world? meh. yankee go home.
 
2013-06-14 02:30:28 PM

wildcardjack: [www.thinkhero.com image 850x554]They might have a ban on having a navy, but what about a SPACE NAVY!!!

Oh, and some of the shiat we put out for Coast Guard cutters would be able to match most navies around the world.


We're done.
 
2013-06-14 02:31:41 PM
It's all fun and games until the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor again.
 
2013-06-14 02:46:58 PM
A rose by any other name....

The Japanese have a navy.  They just call it the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force.
 
2013-06-14 02:54:24 PM

James!: I think we can trust the Japanese with a military at this point.  It's been 70 years.


Sure, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I trust the German navy.

/12/7/41 - never forget
 
2013-06-14 02:58:28 PM
I remember once reading a story of an American pilot who, during one of the carrier battles during World War II, got was confused and tried to land on a Japanese carrier.  He realized his mistake at the last minute and basically ended up buzzing the flight deck.  Wish I could remember more details about this story.
 
2013-06-14 02:59:42 PM
www.examiner.com

Come at me bro.
 
2013-06-14 03:05:50 PM

Mock26: I remember once reading a story of an American pilot who, during one of the carrier battles during World War II, got was confused and tried to land on a Japanese carrier.  He realized his mistake at the last minute and basically ended up buzzing the flight deck.  Wish I could remember more details about this story.


Read about a British pilot who's fighter was shot up over France and couldn't make it back.  Searching around, the only place he could find to land was a German air field so he said "fark it" and landed.  Then asked for tea.
 
2013-06-14 03:55:07 PM

utah dude: uh... why do we have aljazeera links up on fark? is drew trying to get himself on a list?


That's a mighty ignorant post, right there...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera
 
2013-06-14 03:57:52 PM

Millennium: Satanic_Hamster: Subby; you realize they've been doing this for... What, 60 years?

Yeah, I was going to say; this is not new at all.

James!: I think we can trust the Japanese with a military at this point. It's been 70 years.

At this point, it's not really "our" place to say. What keeps Japan from having a military is not a treaty, but its own constitution; we wrote it, back in the day, but it's theirs to amend. The topic comes up from time to time, but it always gets defeated.


This.
 
2013-06-14 04:04:21 PM

phalaeo: utah dude: uh... why do we have aljazeera links up on fark? is drew trying to get himself on a list?

That's a mighty ignorant post, right there...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera


Al_Jezza:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Clarkson
 
2013-06-14 04:20:01 PM

FatPrincess: "with serving members"

High school girls in maid uniforms? /DNRTFA


We can only wish...

/My bunk, you can find me there...
//After which I understand I've got a bus to catch to hell.  One of the seats has my name engraved on it...
 
2013-06-14 04:39:40 PM

silverjets: James!: I think we can trust the Japanese with a military at this point.  It's been 70 years.

You'd think.  But you can bet the Chinese and the Koreans will speak out against this.

When it came to "grievous acts of violence during wartime" I'd say the Germans were on par with the Japanese, if not having surpassed them, but the Germans weren't required to give up their military.


Um, hate to break it to you, but Germany's military was disassembled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermath_of_World_War_II#Germany

We didn't just go for demilitarization - we went after De-Industrialization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JCS_1067#JCS_1067

Only after 1947 when we started worrying that there might be a popular communist revolt did we let up and start rebuilding instead of destroying.  It wasn't until 1955, after the BRD was allowed to be a country again, and they joined NATO, did they rearm.
 
2013-06-14 04:42:04 PM

stevarooni: jaylectricity: Why can't America have a Self-Defense Force of their own?

Run by Homeland Security, maybe?


and backed by the national guard?
 
2013-06-14 04:43:37 PM

silverjets: qorkfiend: silverjets: James!: I think we can trust the Japanese with a military at this point.  It's been 70 years.

You'd think.  But you can bet the Chinese and the Koreans will speak out against this.

When it came to "grievous acts of violence during wartime" I'd say the Germans were on par with the Japanese, if not having surpassed them, but the Germans weren't required to give up their military.

Sure, if by "weren't required to give up their military" you mean the Wermacht was disbanded by the Allied occupation forces. Both East and West Germany had no military until 1955, one year after the Japanese officially created the SDF.

But did the US pound it into the German constitution that they were forbidden from having a military?  They did to the Japanese.   The SDF is a self defense force.  It would cause a constitutional crisis for Japan to use the SDF offensively.


They weren't allowed to be a country again until we needed them to be a country to resist Soviet maneuvers.  We treated Germany much harsher than the Japanese in our post war administration.  I think Germany would have much preferred being handed a constitution rather than be administered by:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JCS_1067#JCS_1067
 
2013-06-14 04:55:44 PM
www.warstore.co.uk


/ i can borrowz comfort women?
 
2013-06-14 05:12:35 PM

jaylectricity: Why can't America have a Self-Defense Force of their own?


We do, but we tend to use more Westernized terminology to describe them, plus we don't have as many Constitutional hoops to jump through.

No a bunch of hicks with a small armory of semi-legal guns is not a "self-defense force" or "militia".
 
2013-06-14 05:15:45 PM
It's a fact that Japan hasn't really owed up to its past like Germany has.  Japanese ignorance about the events of WWII are sort of appalling.  And yeah, there are some genuine victims who are still alive such as the so-called comfort women and those who worked as slave labor.

The problem is apart from the victims who should collect some financial compensation for their injuries, governments who are really pressing the issue are only doing so because they have some political bone to pick with Japan - like over disputed territories, fishing rights, etc.  In particular China and North Korea.

Also, that was 70 years ago and as others noted, Japan is a mature and stable democracy.  The US doesn't want to pay to patrol the waters of East Asia forever.  And plenty of East Asian countries aren't particurly happy at the thought of the Chinese taking over the role of the big dog on the block.
 
2013-06-14 05:26:25 PM

bikkurikun: woodstock827: As a Chinese, I won't feel OK with until Japan at least formally recognize the war crimes they commited during the WWII. I'm sure most Japanese people are fine, but the number of right wing nutsy in Japan politics is alarming. One recent example being comfort women being a "necessity" in war time. I also understand that most Japanese don't know of things that Japan did during WWII because it's not taught in school or things are heavily prettied over. It's really hard to trust them when many of the ones in power still deny the existence/scale of the Nanking Massacre or comfort women.

Sure China has its issues as well, but that's a separate topic.

 Sure, once in a while an old geezer in government says something stupid again. Just like there are still some hardcore communists left in the government in China.


Old geezer? How about the frikkin' mayor of Osaka?

Link

graphics8.nytimes.com
 
2013-06-14 05:54:45 PM

groppet: Before WW2 they broke the Washington Naval treaty a lot by fudging the numbers and jsut outright lying about they weights and types of ships they had http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Treaty


Before WWII EVERYBODY broke the Washington Naval treaty by fudging the numbers or outright lying about their ships.

skullkrusher: I think it might be time to let them have an offensive military.


They have one now.  Their defense forces are easily capable of offensive operations on land, at sea, and in the air.
 
2013-06-14 06:28:00 PM

Harry Freakstorm: But if you tell the Air Force to secure a building, they'll sign a 99 lease on it with an option after 75 years to buy.


Only if the building has a gym and hot tubs.  Otherwise they aerial bomb the shiat out of it.

/And probably target the wrong building
 
2013-06-14 06:30:47 PM

bikkurikun: woodstock827: As a Chinese, I won't feel OK with until Japan at least formally recognize the war crimes they commited during the WWII. I'm sure most Japanese people are fine, but the number of right wing nutsy in Japan politics is alarming. One recent example being comfort women being a "necessity" in war time. I also understand that most Japanese don't know of things that Japan did during WWII because it's not taught in school or things are heavily prettied over. It's really hard to trust them when many of the ones in power still deny the existence/scale of the Nanking Massacre or comfort women.

Sure China has its issues as well, but that's a separate topic.

Japan has recognized the war crimes and has apologized multiple times. Sure, once in a while an old geezer in government says something stupid again. Just like there are still some hardcore communists left in the government in China.

But as an Asian you should be able to recognize that the reasons that Japan doesn't admit their mistakes with more effort is exactly the reason why people in China ignore the fact that their grandparents where red guards and murderers.  This is because they share the same cultural background, confucianism, guilt vs. shame etc.

The simple fact is that China wouldn't be where it is today without the billions of aid that Japan paid in reparations. All of the infrastructure that was built in the 80's and early 90's that enabled China to escape from economic obscurity where built with Japanese money.


They've been whitewashing what they did in WW2 in their new schoolbooks.  This is not a good sign.
 
2013-06-14 06:43:45 PM
OgreMagi:

They've been whitewashing what they did in WW2 in their new schoolbooks.  This is not a good sign.

Source?
 
2013-06-14 06:48:23 PM
silverjets
But did the US pound it into the German constitution that they were forbidden from having a military? They did to the Japanese. The SDF is a self defense force. It would cause a constitutional crisis for Japan to use the SDF offensively.


Same is actually true for Germany.

I've seen people complain in threads about Germany not pulling its weight in e.g. Afghanistan or Yugoslavia and leaving all the dangerous jobs to the US and others.
They're usually ignorant of the fact that, according to the German constitution, German troops aren't even supposed to be there at all because the German military is supposed to be purely a defensive force.

It was quite a crisis and a political and constitutional shiatstorm and took lots of rhetorical, mental and moral gymnastics to get involved there at all. So politicians were arguing that they're either "defending Germany at the Hindukush" (the minster of defense at the time) because of Taliban-supported terrorism or that the German troops are only there to do jobs that can be argued to be of a humanitarian nature (rebuilding crap, training police, keeping the peace).
Even having a couple of Tornados there to provide camera footage caused quite a debate if not a scandal and, IIRC, was then stopped.

Shiat, during Iraq 2003 you had leftist pacifists doing sit-down protest trying to block access to US bases in Germany, because by letting the US use its bases in Germany to supply the invasion of Iraq, Germany was indirectly and unconstitutionally aiding someone who started an illegal war of aggression. For the same reason some legal folks made the entertaining thought experiment that, if it weren't for protocol and diplomatic immunity and it simply being unimaginable and shiat, that yes, they would actually be required to arrest president Bush during his state visit to Germany for ordering the invasion or on suspicion of being a war criminal or something along those lines.
So for every fart a German soldier does, there's probably been a battle between politicians not wanting Germany to lose face internationally and letting allies down versus public opinion being very, very anti-war and the constitution.
 
2013-06-14 06:54:09 PM

bakarocket: OgreMagi:

They've been whitewashing what they did in WW2 in their new schoolbooks.  This is not a good sign.

Source?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=japan+whitewashing+history+in+textbooks
 
2013-06-14 07:00:17 PM
Yeah, they totally need a new generation of ships that don't have so much wood on them:

th01.deviantart.net
 
2013-06-14 07:02:33 PM

OgreMagi: bakarocket: OgreMagi:

They've been whitewashing what they did in WW2 in their new schoolbooks.  This is not a good sign.

Source?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=japan+whitewashing+history+in+textbooks


So, old articles referring to books published and not actually used in any schools, angry internet pundits, and Wikipedia.

So...no source, then, huh?
 
2013-06-14 07:38:51 PM
Turn 'em loose. They can be on our side this time :-)
 
2013-06-14 08:13:00 PM

dittybopper: Probably not much.  The nationalism that blinded them in the 1920's, 30's, and 40's doesn't seem to be too much in evidence now, and they'll make a nice naval counter-weight to China.

/I thought Japan already had a professional Navy.


Yes, a very substantial one
 
2013-06-14 08:20:20 PM

bakarocket: OgreMagi: bakarocket: OgreMagi:

They've been whitewashing what they did in WW2 in their new schoolbooks.  This is not a good sign.

Source?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=japan+whitewashing+history+in+textbooks

So, old articles referring to books published and not actually used in any schools, angry internet pundits, and Wikipedia.

So...no source, then, huh?


Man, he would make a really, really great lawyer.

OgreMagi:  Your honor.  The defendant is guilty of murder.
Judge:  Where is your evidence?
OgreMagi:  Go look it up yourself!
 
2013-06-14 08:32:49 PM
This is a good thing on a number of levels..  A representative government calls the shots now, not an emperor, so we don't have to worry about them trying to go out and dominate the world. And considering how China is starting shiat with them over those fishing islands....a stronger military gives them more influence in regional affairs.  This takes pressure off the U.S. military, which has been the police in the region since WWII.  Not to mention the Japanese are getting sick of U.S. bases in their country.  A military of their own reduces the need for us to be there.
 
2013-06-14 08:37:32 PM
1) Doesn't Starfleet do the same thing?

2) Strike Witches haven't been posted yet?
 
2013-06-14 08:48:55 PM

gestug: Post more funny Japanese pictures


3.bp.blogspot.com
www.cavemancircus.com
 
2013-06-14 08:54:02 PM
www.filgifts.com
 
2013-06-14 09:03:05 PM

Mock26: bakarocket: OgreMagi: bakarocket: OgreMagi:

They've been whitewashing what they did in WW2 in their new schoolbooks.  This is not a good sign.

Source?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=japan+whitewashing+history+in+textbooks

So, old articles referring to books published and not actually used in any schools, angry internet pundits, and Wikipedia.

So...no source, then, huh?

Man, he would make a really, really great lawyer.

OgreMagi:  Your honor.  The defendant is guilty of murder.
Judge:  Where is your evidence?
OgreMagi:  Go look it up yourself!


Yeah. People do talk about it a lot, but then never mention that the textbooks are used by maybe ten schools in the entire country. It's a function of the textbook system. As long as books follow the bare minimums, they can be used, but since school boards are responsible for choosing the books, just because one is published doesn't mean it is used.

Also, while Japanese history texts definitely skip over a lot of detail, there's no whitewashing involved. They are required by law to mention Nanjing and other bad stuff, but just like in North America, the grisly details are left for university level classes.

An entire generation of Germans was emotionally brutalized for the sins of their fathers. I'm personally glad it hasn't happened in Japan, but unfortunately they've gone the other direction by not describing enough.

They're doesn't need to be German-level guilt-laying, but there should definitely more than US-level "it wasn't us, so we don't need to talk about it."

My kids will get a balanced education on this.
 
2013-06-14 09:06:40 PM
bakarocket:

Also, while Japanese history texts definitely skip over a lot of detail, there's no whitewashing involved.

Edit: "there's no whitewashing of the textbooks most commonly used in junior high schools and high schools. They're just data-deficient.

Anyway, do you really think 15 year old kids should be learning about torture, rape and mass murder? I personally don't, and apparently school boards in the US are of the same mind if their record on teaching about the atrocities commited during the Vietnam war are anything to go by.
 
2013-06-14 10:41:10 PM

WordsnCollision: dittybopper: Probably not much.  The nationalism that blinded them in the 1920's, 30's, and 40's doesn't seem to be too much in evidence now...

[www.iwadai.com image 421x463]

/New, not vintage.
//hot


Not sure what point you're trying to make.  It's a Cupie Doll, of which there are literally thousands of collectible varieties in all sorts of costumes, and that one is only one of the many in a limited SDF series (most of which are in modern SDF uniforms).

It clearly says "Costume Cupie, Kyuugun Collection".  Kyuugun (旧軍) is short for Kyuu Nihon-gun (OLD Japanese Armed Forces).  Saying the existence of a period-costume doll is evidence of hyper-nationalism is dumb.

OgreMagi: bakarocket: OgreMagi:

They've been whitewashing what they did in WW2 in their new schoolbooks.  This is not a good sign.

Source?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=japan+whitewashing+history+in+textbooks


Good old pot, keep calling that kettle black.  America needs to stop concern trolling other countries' issues and remove that log from their own eye.  Then your opinion might count for something.

/NM, go right back to providing guns and bomb to terrorists
//And supporting murderous despots
///And then accidentally forgetting to teach your kids about it
 
2013-06-14 10:49:31 PM

gnosis301: Please build the Yamato. I want to see a giant laser before I die.


THIS so much.
 
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