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(Thrillbent)   A 'Man Of Steel' review from Mark Waid, a guy who knows a little bit about Superman   (thrillbent.com) divider line 373
    More: Interesting, Mark Waid, Man of Steel, Superman, Zod, Brandon Routh, Jor-El, Infinite Crisis, secret identity  
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9936 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jun 2013 at 8:56 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 11:35:17 PM
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-14 11:39:11 PM

chewielouie: . It had so many flaws, that I don't even know where to begin.


well, begin then. I thought it was great.
 
2013-06-15 12:12:42 AM

Boojum2k: give me doughnuts: Rwa2play: KiltedBastich: Dimensio: The reviewer is correct. In the comics, Superman does not kill.

RexTalionis: [static.comicvine.com image 400x379]

Remember when Superman literally executed Zod and his lieutenants in the comics?

Do keep in mind that this was an alternate-earth storyline where Zod and his cronies had killed off literally the  entire human race. IIRC, there were a few hundred survivors left at the start of the story, and they were all dead except Supergirl (who was badly hurt) by the end of the story. Superman was literally the last man standing, the only representative of law and order left (as he mentions). And he had no phantom zone tech in that universe. This was literally the only thing he could do, it was as thoroughly justified an execution as it's possible to imagine, and it was still the hardest thing he'd ever done. It was also done with deliberation, after considering the consequences and ramifications. It was not a hot blood instinctive response in the middle of a fight.

The fact that Superman can bend enough to face a horrible but necessary reality, but that only such a horrible but necessary reality is enough to make him bend, makes the character and his moral code stronger, not weaker. He's not holding to his code in unthinking ideological absolutist fashion. He's holding to it having considered the ramifications and limits of his code. He knows what the edge case is where he is willing to step beyond it. Considering that the edge case is literally the genocide of billions by an overwhelmingly powerful foe with no other recourse at all, I think it is consistent, and I think that Waid's criticism holds true.

Which is why I stated this would've been a better story if it were about Wonder Woman.


She's always known that sometimes it is necessary to kill, and doesn't have a problem with the idea.


Different topic: I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know if this is addressed. If Superman (and by extension all oth ...


in the movie maybe it is obliquely addressed but in the comics there is definitely charging that happens as he gets more power from flying to the sun than at earth.  He has reserves and it is possible to drain him.  But for the purposes of the movie guys with 1/300th the power of superman wouldn't make compelling Kryptonian villains.
 
2013-06-15 12:19:40 AM

Boojum2k: This is the only thing Man of Steel really lacked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJENrNU7wC8


Yes, I think they should have had the Superman March over the end credits instead of the perfectly fine, but decidedly unexceptional Hans Zimmer music they used.

Zimmer's theme inspired "this is really intense" (like the Batman stuff he did, which it was perfect for).  The Superman March gives the feeling that you're watching a movie about the "perfect, flawless hero."

The Zimmer music was great for the film.  But I felt the march would have been perfect for the end credits.

I don't have a problem with them not ending with him flying into space and smiling at the camera.  That wouldn't have fit.
 
2013-06-15 12:21:36 AM
I enjoyed it and I could definitely see this world being the basis for a JL movie.
 
2013-06-15 12:24:03 AM
I saw the film last night at the drive in, and I thought it was pretty damn good. The flash back scenes at times though for me kind of felt random. Other than it was a great Superman flick. The friend that I was with didn't like, but he kept comparing it to the Christopher Reeves Superman. I loved the fight scenes in Smallville, but I did got to hang out on the set in Plano, Il while they were shooting.
 
2013-06-15 12:32:23 AM
This movie was an okay action picture and an awful Superman movie.

*SPOILERS*

Off the top of my head (and in no particular order) here are complaints I had after seeing it this afternoon ...

1.  The muted color palette.  Terrible.  Superman is an optimistic character; he is not Batman.  This is something Marvel understands and Warner Brothers never will apparently.  They made the same mistake with the last Superman movie and it's a shame.

2.  Paint-by-numbers action script - and what I mean by that is that whoever put it together went with the "we need an action scene every 10 pages" and that resulted in a bunch of ridiculous scenes.  It was obvious what was going on here when the first five minutes turned Krypton into an Avatar meets Star Wars ripoff; and Jor El became Aquaman.  Just stupid.

3.  The Indian Ocean battle with the Doctor Octopus space-ship was the equivalent of "He has to fight a gigantic mechanical spider in the third act" - you can tell some a-hole producer insisted over and over again that the Superman fights needed to be like the Matrix so they threw him a bone to shut him up.

4.  Everyone knows the most important aspect of a Superman story is Clark Kent.  This film screwed up Clark Kent soooo badly.  It was more "We need to follow the Batman template" foolishness.  Clark Kent does not need to travel the world like Carradine in Kung-Fu to find himself.  He's a farm boy from Kansas with a firm moral center; that's been the basic component of the character for 70 years.

5.  Being responsible for his Jonathan Kent's death was stupid and more "we need to make him brooding and tortured" bullshiat.

6.  The music in the film was completely unremarkable.  The only music I noticed while the film was going on was that the music playing during the "Lois Lane on the spaceship" scene was a ripoff of the Daft Punk Tron Legacy music.  Nothing else was memorable.  This is a sin when the Superman character probably has one of the 5 or 10 most memorable and iconic theme music attached with it.

7.  Basic Superman components that were missing or almost entirely ignored/wrong:  Clark being a reporter, Clark working at the Daily Planet, Lois Lane not knowing his secret identity, Kryptonite, the Fortress of Solitude, Jimmy Olson (no I don't count the broad caught in the rubble).

8.  No explanation given whatsoever for why Zod wanted Lois Lane (of the entire population of the world) to be on his spaceship.  Pure plot contrivance.

9.  Disaster porn.  Nobody cares about a bunch of crumbling buildings with seemingly nobody in peril.  It's something modern-day action film makers just do not understand.  They just dont.  If there's no attachment to the characters, you don't care if they are in peril.  There's no tension.

10.  The decision to have Superman kill Zod at the end.  There are a couple thousand ways they could have ended the film without this death.  Off the top of my head, they already established that Superman lost his powers on the spaceship - they could have just said "The spaceship's Krypton materials has a kryptonite-lite 'weaken-not-murder' effect on Kryptonians" and then he could have incarcerated Zod inside of one.  But that's not what they wanted - going back to the old, failed Kevin Smith meeting with WB brass - they wanted a Superman with "the eyes of a killer".  They just don't understand the character, and haven't for 25 years.

*END SPOILERS*

To conclude, the producers and studio were far too concerned with making a Star Wars/Avatar/Matrix/Independence Day knock-off and completely unconcerned with making a Superman movie.  It's their intellectual property, they can do whatever they want, but if they were trying to start a franchise (which they are), they kind of blew it.  My 18 year old nephew said "meh" and my 13 year old niece said she didn't like it.  Neither one of them had seen the Donner films, but I grew up on them - the Donner films are far, far superior movies.  How Warner Bros doesn't realize they were gifted a template in the late 70s, I have no idea.
 
2013-06-15 12:33:56 AM
Couple of things:

1) I feel like they're thinking long-term here.  When he killed Zod and then let out that long howl, I was hit with the realization that 'this' is why he makes that decision to live and fight and protect without killing.  His own version of 'Never Again.'

2) The damage inflicted on both Smallville and Metropolis hit me as being relevant to the long-term story of this world.  In the world of the Avengers, after Thor shows up, it changes everything for that world.  In this world, the aftermath of the alien invasion is going to change 'everything' and I sincerely think that this story is setting up all the future movies to come.

For example, Superman's arrival could trigger Wonder Woman's arrival in the world of man, and perhaps coax Arthur up from his underwater kingdom.

I didn't really care for the violence of the movie, but I sincerely believe it was done so for a reason pertinent to the long-term story.
 
2013-06-15 12:41:11 AM

SunsetLament: How Warner Bros doesn't realize they were gifted a template in the late 70s, I have no idea.


Um, Bryan Singer used that template a few years back and it sucked. This movie is miles better.
 
2013-06-15 12:43:16 AM

SunsetLament: Being responsible for his Jonathan Kent's death was stupid and more "we need to make him brooding and tortured" bullshiat.


There's a link right here on Fark that points out that Clark Kent is directly responsible for Pa Kent's death in the first Superman movie because he was being a dick.

This time he just didn't do anything, rather than goading the old man to his demise.
 
2013-06-15 12:50:10 AM

Confabulat: SunsetLament: Being responsible for his Jonathan Kent's death was stupid and more "we need to make him brooding and tortured" bullshiat.

There's a link right here on Fark that points out that Clark Kent is directly responsible for Pa Kent's death in the first Superman movie because he was being a dick.

This time he just didn't do anything, rather than goading the old man to his demise.


And arguably, Johnathon told Clark NOT to help, that sometimes sacrifices must be made for the greater good.
 
2013-06-15 12:52:36 AM

Confabulat: SunsetLament: How Warner Bros doesn't realize they were gifted a template in the late 70s, I have no idea.

Um, Bryan Singer used that template a few years back and it sucked. This movie is miles better.


Miles better? No. Take out the stupid kid angle from Superman Returns, and all of the sudden it becomes much better. And the airplane rescue scene in Superman Returns is better than any one scene in Man of Steel.
 
2013-06-15 12:53:14 AM

SunsetLament: Neither one of them had seen the Donner films, but I grew up on them - the Donner films are far, far superior movies. How Warner Bros doesn't realize they were gifted a template in the late 70s, I have no idea.


Wow. Unfathomable that you see those films as superior to this one. Donner films were okay, but have NOT aged well. Man of Steel was amazing, awe inspiring, and well worth seeing.

I was going to refute your issues one by one, but I don't have the energy, and frankly, you've made up your mind. So be it. Though it was clear to me that Zod requested Lois Lane after seeing her with Kal moments earlier.
 
2013-06-15 12:53:46 AM
*SPOILERS*
How did the injured and unconscious Lois survive a few hours in 40 below zero weather long enough for the military to find her after Clark takes off in the arctic ship?
 
2013-06-15 12:54:09 AM

chewielouie: And the airplane rescue scene in Superman Returns is better than any one scene in Man of Steel.


But it's the ONLY good scene in Returns. Your case is shaky.
 
2013-06-15 12:54:44 AM

Enormous-Schwanstucker: Lernaeus: I stopped taking this whiny piece of shiat "review" seriously the moment he bemoaned the lack of outer-underwear.

Man of Steel was AWESOME. Every farking thing about it.

But, hey, the relentless shiatstorm of basement dwelling bottom feeders using the Internet to grandstand their mighty Superman knowledge and crap all over a very, VERY good movie has been a popular pastime today.

I just got back from the show as well and I have to agree it was an awesome movie. Without giving away more than was given away from the incessantly irritating Waid let me say it left a lot of room for sequels, in spite of the fact it turned a couple of things around. And yep, it was darker and more violent than I anticipated even reading the reviews.  I went in to the movie half expecting him to show the trademark constant compassion.
My take is he's developing and learning to care for the puny humans and he has a way to go and he's very rough around the edges, i.e. he hasn't fully learned to harness his powers properly. The groundwork has been laid down in this release.

There were a few humorous moments delivered mostly by dialog but I just don't get the hatred by so many especially Waid. He just seems so bitter and so angry. Wake up chump, it's 2013 and technology allows for more exciting action and crap exploding.

The only minor criticism is it jumped around between current day SM and younger SM a bit more than I cared for but it wasn't very difficult to follow.

Well done.


/like
//mobile
///currently bemoaning the lack of keyboards in the mix at a Pink Floud tribute show

////big farking need
 
2013-06-15 12:55:04 AM

Confabulat: SunsetLament: How Warner Bros doesn't realize they were gifted a template in the late 70s, I have no idea.

Um, Bryan Singer used that template a few years back and it sucked. This movie is miles better.


Bryan Singer's mid-2000s film showed a complete misunderstanding of what Donner did in his films.  Donner showed an optimistic, morally centered person bringing hope to the world.  Singer turned Superman into a brooding, depressed dead-beat dad who was hanging around outside his kid's house like a child molester.  The muted color scheme (including the "Drunk Superman from Superman III" costume) showed he didn't understand the character at all.  It also had zero action in it and contained a scene were Superman lifted a continent-sized piece of Kryptonite.

Donner and Singer's Supermen films were like night and day.
 
2013-06-15 12:55:51 AM
////ahem, NERD
 
2013-06-15 12:57:12 AM

Confabulat: chewielouie: . It had so many flaws, that I don't even know where to begin.

well, begin then. I thought it was great.


No heart, no hope and felt completely uninspired. Superman: the Movie and Superman II, despite the their own flaws and dated special effects  are far and away more enjoyable.
 
2013-06-15 01:03:09 AM

chewielouie: Confabulat: chewielouie: . It had so many flaws, that I don't even know where to begin.

well, begin then. I thought it was great.

No heart, no hope and felt completely uninspired. Superman: the Movie and Superman II, despite the their own flaws and dated special effects  are far and away more enjoyable.


Those sound like platitudes.
 
2013-06-15 01:04:58 AM
I tried to watch the Donner flicks recently and they have NOT aged well. You can watch the first Star Wars and it feels the same, it feels like it could be made today. The Donner Superman flicks are like Star Trek: The Motion Picture. They exist in a time and place and it shows.
 
2013-06-15 01:06:55 AM

Confabulat: I tried to watch the Donner flicks recently and they have NOT aged well. You can watch the first Star Wars and it feels the same, it feels like it could be made today. The Donner Superman flicks are like Star Trek: The Motion Picture. They exist in a time and place and it shows.


Thank you.
 
2013-06-15 01:12:30 AM

REO-Weedwagon: I see Warner Brothers is launching a new marketing campaign today saying the new Superman movie is really about Christianity, and pretty much if you love Jesus, then you should definitely bring out the whole family to see the movie. Actually, organize the church youth group to come see it as well, you know, for Jesus. They currently have the "story" plastered all over Fox News and other various media outlets that attract and instruct the rubes.

"By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising...kill yourself. Thank you. Just planting seeds, planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here, really. Seriously, kill yourself, you have no rationalisation for what you do, you are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show. Seriously, I know the marketing people: 'There's gonna be a joke comin' up.' There's no farkin' joke. Suck a tail pipe, hang yourself...borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy, do something...rid the world of your evil f*ckin' presence."
[img397.imageshack.us image 230x229]


I'd rather have all the cynical nihilist shiatheads who think like Bill Hicks die a horrible death.
 
2013-06-15 01:21:04 AM

Confabulat: I tried to watch the Donner flicks recently and they have NOT aged well. You can watch the first Star Wars and it feels the same, it feels like it could be made today. The Donner Superman flicks are like Star Trek: The Motion Picture. They exist in a time and place and it shows.


Wait ... you mean a film that takes place in 1978 America looks like 1978 America?  While a film that takes place on different planets that have nothing to do with modern-day Earth still look like those different planets (that don't actually exist) thirty years later?  I find this possible to believe.

Let me guess ... you must find Raiders of the Lost Ark to look dated too?

Here's a surprise that's really going to crush you, Ghostbusters looks like 1985 New York; there's nobody walking around talking on cell phones and all the cars look like they were made in the 80s.
 
2013-06-15 01:22:35 AM
For those that haven't seen it, Armond White LOVED it. What more do you really need to know?
 
2013-06-15 01:27:25 AM
*SPOILERS*
It amazes me how many scenes from MoS are similar to scenes from better movies.

Superman in handcuffs, flanked by armed guards? Avengers, last year, ST Into Darkness this year.

That giant Kryptonian attacking the plane by leaping on it? Hulk attacking the jet scene from Avengers.

The Black Zero being sucked into a wormhole after being rammed by a smaller ship carrying a special payload? The fate of the Narada from Star Trek.

Clark learning the location of the scout ship from chatter overheard in a diner? The diner scene from Thor where he learns the location of Mjolnir.

Superman walking down a small-town street towards a giant Kryptonian with a look of apprehension on his face? Thor walking towards the Destroyer in the small New Mexico town, ready to accept his fate.

The scene where Lois takes a picture of the attack drone outside the arctic ship, only to be attacked? The infamous snake scene from Prometheus, complete with well-deserved pain.

The scene with young Clark posing with the towel cape? Similar to the scene in Captain America with a kid playing with a trash can lid painted to look like Cap's shield.

The jets futilely attacking the Black Zero in Metropolis was straight out of Independence Day.

Consider me unimpressed.
 
2013-06-15 01:31:07 AM

chewielouie: For those that haven't seen it, Armond White LOVED it. What more do you really need to know?


So he's NOT wrong every time?  How about that.
 
2013-06-15 01:39:01 AM

SunsetLament: This movie was an okay action picture and an awful Superman movie.

*SPOILERS*


So basically, you don't know what you're talking about.

1 What does Marvel understand? They also use a muted color palette on Captain America movie? Thor? Hawkeye? Get freaking real... They only gave Avengers Cap a colorful costume and that was on purpose to make him look corny, but for Winter Soldier is back to drab blue.

2 Meh

3 Hehe, well, Jon Peters was the producer of this movie, so I was expecting that just for laughs.

4 Read Birthright.

5 No, it's perfectly fine and even people who didn't like the movie comment on that scene being godly.

6 True, but hardly a relevant complaint.

7 No, missed the point here. LOL at "classic". The Lois Lane triangle is one of the dumbest aspects of the character. For the rest, jesus, are you brain damaged? He went to work for the Planet at the end and they'll obviously make a sequel so it's not like he'll never be a journalist in this world. He was at the end of the movie.

8 Because he wanted to know secrets about Kal and got her in case he didn't want to cooperate. Remember she's the one who tells Zod about his mom while under their spell.

9 Meh

10 So you have never read a comic and never watched Superman II, right? In Superman II, he kills a depowered Zod while grinning and shows no remorse afterwards. In the comics he kills Zod and then feels bad, just like in this movie. He also indirectly kills a Russian version of Zod.  Conclusion? Killing Zod is part of his mythos and Donner Superman fumbled the ball.
 
2013-06-15 01:43:01 AM
This movie was one of my dreams brought to life. He's been picked on, made to feel different, alone. He is slow to trust because he does not even know if he should trust. He protects his mother with all of the emphasis and emotion he can muster. He constantly tests his limits on both ends of the scale, showing superhuman strength and superhuman restraint. He flew and he saved the day.

He is not a boy scout though, he is a force, a force for good. The movie was transparent about this. It was not about Jesus or Christianity or any of that stuff, it was about testing your limits and aspiring to be something more than you are expected to be. That is the hope Superman symbolizes, that we too can one day aspire and defeat our own limits and accomplish wonders.
 
2013-06-15 01:43:26 AM

SunsetLament: Confabulat: I tried to watch the Donner flicks recently and they have NOT aged well. You can watch the first Star Wars and it feels the same, it feels like it could be made today. The Donner Superman flicks are like Star Trek: The Motion Picture. They exist in a time and place and it shows.

Wait ... you mean a film that takes place in 1978 America looks like 1978 America?  While a film that takes place on different planets that have nothing to do with modern-day Earth still look like those different planets (that don't actually exist) thirty years later?  I find this possible to believe.

Let me guess ... you must find Raiders of the Lost Ark to look dated too?

Here's a surprise that's really going to crush you, Ghostbusters looks like 1985 New York; there's nobody walking around talking on cell phones and all the cars look like they were made in the 80s.


No. That's exactly NOT the point. Raiders of the Lost Ark is as fresh today as it ever was. It's an 80s film that takes place in the 30s but it's timeless. It could be released today and feel fresh.

Superman: The Movie screams 1978, from everything from set design to the philosophical questions raised to the utter absurdity of some of the solutions (really, do we have to discuss the whole spinning-the-Earth-backward thing? If Man of Steel did something like that people would HOWL. And remember how he can throw his S logo to capture Zod?) It's a very badly dated movie and does not stand up to the test of time, or even logic. Margot Kidder was never hot enough to get Superman.
 
2013-06-15 01:55:08 AM
Some of you guys are working way too hard to earn those "paid shill posting positive word-of-mouth online" paychecks.
 
2013-06-15 01:57:19 AM

Truman Burbank: Some of you guys are working way too hard to earn those "paid shill posting positive word-of-mouth online" paychecks.


Your mom's prices went up.
 
2013-06-15 02:08:52 AM

Truman Burbank: Some of you guys are working way too hard to earn those "paid shill posting positive word-of-mouth online" paychecks.


I liked it. I went to the movie not sure if I would, and I was happily surprised. I didn't even smoke weed in the bathroom halfway through like I normally do because I was interested in what was going on.

No one paid me to think that. No one paid me to type this. I just really liked the movie. Is that so hard for you to understand? Does it confuse you when people on the internet actually like something? I know it's rare.
 
2013-06-15 02:12:37 AM
I liked this movie. The effects were amazing and I thought it did a good job tweaking the character to work for a modern audience. I think the thing to remember here is this version of Superman is still learning to be Superman. Yeah he would probably like to save more bystanders from the crossfire but he's kind of busy trying to avoid getting his ass handed to him by Zod n' friends. He's a farm boy with super powers. But Zod and his crew are trained killers. I suspect if this film spawns sequels we will see this version of Superman grow in his abilities and how to use them more effectively.
 
2013-06-15 02:18:30 AM

Truman Burbank: Some of you guys are working way too hard to earn those "paid shill posting positive word-of-mouth online" paychecks.


I'm sorry, the tinfoil helmet you are wearing somehow made you write gibberish. Care to try to make a cogent post?
 
2013-06-15 02:27:25 AM
You know what sealed the deal for me? The Hulk saves more people in The Avengers than Superman does in MoS...
 
2013-06-15 02:44:20 AM

Sweet Chin Music: You know what sealed the deal for me? The Hulk saves more people in The Avengers than Superman does in MoS...


No, he doesn't.
 
2013-06-15 03:14:14 AM

rocky_howard: Sweet Chin Music: You know what sealed the deal for me? The Hulk saves more people in The Avengers than Superman does in MoS...

No, he doesn't.


Superman destroys the World Shaper that was trying to turn Earth into New Krypton, killing all the native life.  I think he wins that count.
 
2013-06-15 03:29:17 AM
I have returned from a 00:30 showing of the movie. I enjoyed it overall, though I did know most of what to expect. I find myself in agreement with most who viewed the movie positively but who also criticized the pacing.

I do have one comment, however.

Was not General Zod's plan ultimately a heavily scaled up "real estate" plot?
 
2013-06-15 03:33:49 AM

rocky_howard: Sweet Chin Music: You know what sealed the deal for me? The Hulk saves more people in The Avengers than Superman does in MoS...

No, he doesn't.


Yes, he does. How many people did Superman kill when he tackled Zod through that gas station? How about when he and Zod started slamming through skyscrapers in Metropolis? For a guy with the symbol for hope on his chest, Supes has quite the body count.
 
2013-06-15 03:35:52 AM

Sweet Chin Music: Yes, he does. How many people did Superman kill when he tackled Zod through that gas station?


None?

Sweet Chin Music: How about when he and Zod started slamming through skyscrapers in Metropolis? For a guy with the symbol for hope on his chest, Supes has quite the body count.


Irrelevant. How many did Tony kill when he "brought the party" to the team?

And who did Hulk save besides Tony?

And gee, you talk as if in Avengers there was no destruction...
 
2013-06-15 03:43:32 AM

Dimensio: I have returned from a 00:30 showing of the movie. I enjoyed it overall, though I did know most of what to expect. I find myself in agreement with most who viewed the movie positively but who also criticized the pacing.

I do have one comment, however.

Was not General Zod's plan ultimately a heavily scaled up "real estate" plot?


Sorta.. though I was reminded more of the Master's plan to turn Earth into New Gallifrey.
 
2013-06-15 06:00:45 AM

rocky_howard: Sweet Chin Music: Yes, he does. How many people did Superman kill when he tackled Zod through that gas station?

None?

Sweet Chin Music: How about when he and Zod started slamming through skyscrapers in Metropolis? For a guy with the symbol for hope on his chest, Supes has quite the body count.

Irrelevant. How many did Tony kill when he "brought the party" to the team?

And who did Hulk save besides Tony?

And gee, you talk as if in Avengers there was no destruction...


*SPOILERS*
*
*
*
Hulk saved hundreds of people when he stopped that space whale thing from plowing through a skyscraper.

Sure there was destruction in Avengers, but you know what else there was? Hope. We saw firefighters, cops, National Guard, and soldiers actively working to save people. The Avengers, too, go out of their way to save the nameless masses, not just their moms or their cute reporter friends. In the end, some people cheered their names, while others held candlelight vigils to honor the dead. In The Avengers, the people actually mattered.

MoS, in contrast, completely drops the ball, as it rarely even acknowledges the common man, which is ridiculous given the amount of destruction we see on both Smallville and Metropolis. Was that cute Jenny girl the only person buried in the rubble? It sure felt that way... You'd think a guy with super-strength and x-ray vision would be ideal for search and rescue, but the aftermath of all that destruction was completely glossed over for a weak scene between Supes and the General. Thousands of people died and what do we get? "I think he'd kinda hot." What a farking joke...
 
2013-06-15 06:56:04 AM

un4gvn666: IdBeCrazyIf: RexTalionis: sid244: /After the credits: Would have loved to see Superman fly to Gotham City, start up the bat signal and when Batman shows up ask him if he wants to start a crime fighting team. A league, if you will. (Fade to black)

Supposedly, a satellite visible early in the film has the WayneCorp logo on it.

I couldn't tell if it was or not and I've seen the thing twice, there are TONS of Lexcorp stuff though and it does set the stage for Lex's rise to try and point out to humanity that we don't need a savior.

Especially if that savior is indirectly causing untold millions in property damage and casualties in the tens to hundreds of thousands.

I'm looking forward to it.


Millions? more like Billions
 
2013-06-15 07:20:22 AM
*Spoilers*

I was one of those that walked out of the theater saying "Man, he really didn't give two shiats about any of those people in the buildings, did he?"  But, yeah, when taken in context, here's a guy who's never really pushed himself before, only recently learned to do half the things he is capable of, and going up against born and bred and fully trained warriors with no ethical code or qualms about slaughtering the innocent.

I think it would have been much better off had they not had him randomly kissing Lois while people were still dying under buildings to reinforce that he actually is a Jesus-figure and wants to save everyone.  He getting his mack on while I am sure his super hearing is still picking up the screaming of the nearby injured millions seems a bit...  Odd.  And it would have gave his ultimate decision to kill Zod a lot more punch.  But hey, I guess they wanted to set up the Lois/Clark love story, which is annoying and I think would have been better served to set it up as a trust/friendship in this movie that progresses to something more in the next, but I'm not a Hollywood writer.

Overall, I came away from this pretty happy, if not a little disappointed in his seemingly callous approach to collateral damage.  But as I thought about it, his flying into a gas station full of people and the like can be chalked up to inexperience (not having ever really pushed his powers before) and emotion he hasn't learned to control (a superbeing tossing his mother around and threatening to kill her).  I can see a lot of regret at both the collateral damage (see also: the "World Made of Cardboard" speech) and his neck snapping of Zod playing into the next one, both with his new found control and obsessive need to help everyone all the time with the governments distrust of him and desire to find a way to take him down.  Enter Lex, and if they ever pull a Marvel and get the Justice League moving, the government's increasing paranoia and maybe even a Cadmus-like storyline ultimately coming out of it.

All in all, good movie, and great groundwork for the universe.
 
2013-06-15 07:23:47 AM
My thoughts on the film
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So first I want to get to the "Clark Kent" argument. That argument is stupid and full of shame and fail that dishonors your family. He is Clark Kent all over the movie but he struggles with what he is., He struggles with his powers and how to use them in a world without causing fear and terror. Like General Zod Clark is waiting for the right enterance

In this movie Clark Kent learns he is Kal-El and struggles with what that means, General Zod comes and gives him the chance to be Kal (at the cost of about 7 billion dead on earth). He struggles with that but in the end he creates/becomes Superman: A Synthesis of both. That becomes a mask he puts on to protect his mother and friends in Smallville.

At the end of the movie he creates a new mask of Clark Kent to be the Daily Planet reporter. He creates that mask to make it so he can be superman better. But all superman is at his core is Clark Kent given the powers of a god. Clark struggles with how to deal with it and be a good person.

Disaster Porn: Yeah, its a problem I have with movies now a days. I am tired of seeing biblical level destruction. I am not going to fault the movie for that because its what the storyline in question really called for.

Killing Zod: Kal-El Could kill (Kryptonians are pretty much shown to be epic level dicks in this movie), Clark could kill (and some times he wants to) but in Killing Zod we see Superman failing with all his powers. Unlike letting Jonathan die (which was heart wrenching ) Here his powers, intellect, and character failed him. He did something which was morally repugnant to him. That will define him going forward and make him not kill... I.E. Superman being this moral force that doesn't murder. The film is about his becoming Superman and that was a crucial moment for this film in his becoming superman.

I think those are the major criticisms of the movie and they are stupid and wrong
 
2013-06-15 07:27:58 AM
A lot of this thread sounds like 'they changed something, and I don't like it, so this is the worst move EVAR!!'.  And I'm thinking, 'isn't this just like the Star Trek Into Darkness threads a few weeks back?'
 
2013-06-15 07:38:07 AM

Alphax: A lot of this thread sounds like 'they changed something, and I don't like it, so this is the worst move EVAR!!'.  And I'm thinking, 'isn't this just like the Star Trek Into Darkness threads a few weeks back?'


Having liked both the Man of Steel and the new Trek movies, I see it as the two sides of the same coin.  While MoS downplayed most of the usual traits that made Superman (Boy Scout like adherence to an unshakable moral code) in order for him to develop into it later, the new Trek movies amplified everyone's qualities.  Bones is cranky and fed up ALL the time, Kirk is even more of a snarky, self confident horn dog, Uhura is even more competent if not slightly type A, Spock tries even harder to be super-logical and when he fails goes even father off the emotional scale...  They all got boiled down to their essentials, and now they are concentrated traits of what made them so memorable in the first place.  

Either way, I feel like it worked, even if I had to think about it for a bit later.
 
2013-06-15 07:42:19 AM

Shadowknight: Alphax: A lot of this thread sounds like 'they changed something, and I don't like it, so this is the worst move EVAR!!'.  And I'm thinking, 'isn't this just like the Star Trek Into Darkness threads a few weeks back?'

Having liked both the Man of Steel and the new Trek movies, I see it as the two sides of the same coin.  While MoS downplayed most of the usual traits that made Superman (Boy Scout like adherence to an unshakable moral code) in order for him to develop into it later, the new Trek movies amplified everyone's qualities.  Bones is cranky and fed up ALL the time, Kirk is even more of a snarky, self confident horn dog, Uhura is even more competent if not slightly type A, Spock tries even harder to be super-logical and when he fails goes even father off the emotional scale...  They all got boiled down to their essentials, and now they are concentrated traits of what made them so memorable in the first place.  

Either way, I feel like it worked, even if I had to think about it for a bit later.


Well said.
 
2013-06-15 09:40:14 AM

Sweet Chin Music: rocky_howard: Sweet Chin Music: Yes, he does. How many people did Superman kill when he tackled Zod through that gas station?

None?

Sweet Chin Music: How about when he and Zod started slamming through skyscrapers in Metropolis? For a guy with the symbol for hope on his chest, Supes has quite the body count.

Irrelevant. How many did Tony kill when he "brought the party" to the team?

And who did Hulk save besides Tony?

And gee, you talk as if in Avengers there was no destruction...

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Hulk saved hundreds of people when he stopped that space whale thing from plowing through a skyscraper.

Sure there was destruction in Avengers, but you know what else there was? Hope. We saw firefighters, cops, National Guard, and soldiers actively working to save people. The Avengers, too, go out of their way to save the nameless masses, not just their moms or their cute reporter friends. In the end, some people cheered their names, while others held candlelight vigils to honor the dead. In The Avengers, the people actually mattered.

MoS, in contrast, completely drops the ball, as it rarely even acknowledges the common man, which is ridiculous given the amount of destruction we see on both Smallville and Metropolis. Was that cute Jenny girl the only person buried in the rubble? It sure felt that way... You'd think a guy with super-strength and x-ray vision would be ideal for search and rescue, but the aftermath of all that destruction was completely glossed over for a weak scene between Supes and the General. Thousands of people died and what do we get? "I think he'd kinda hot." What a farking joke...


You're so right. It would have been more appropriate for Superman to have sat around eating schwarma instead.

/idiot
 
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