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(Thrillbent)   A 'Man Of Steel' review from Mark Waid, a guy who knows a little bit about Superman   (thrillbent.com) divider line 373
    More: Interesting, Mark Waid, Man of Steel, Superman, Zod, Brandon Routh, Jor-El, Infinite Crisis, secret identity  
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9933 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jun 2013 at 8:56 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 08:43:09 AM
Coincidentally, Mark Waid happened to write one of the best Superman stories ever.

He just had to call it "Irredeemable".
 
2013-06-14 08:58:21 AM
Still hanging out at 58% on rottentomatoes.com
 
2013-06-14 09:01:39 AM
58%?  Wow, that's not good.
 
2013-06-14 09:04:10 AM
Just reading that review made me sad.
 
2013-06-14 09:08:11 AM

PsyLord: 58%?  Wow, that's not good.


Could be. Rt is far from perfect
 
2013-06-14 09:10:10 AM
I can buy Waid's point of view here. But MAYBE since this is a novice Superman, we're seeing the reasons for the "Superman will not kill" creed, and MAYBE we're seeing the failed experience that drives Superman to be so much more protective of civilians in the future.
 
2013-06-14 09:16:16 AM
I really liked it. But that review did voice what was bothering me about it. Superman wasn't going out of his way to protect anyone or move fights out of populated areas. While it was mostly just an excuse for destroying more skyscrapers, it did seem wrong.

Overall, though I did really love it. It really honed in on the alien/sci-go aspect of it. And it was really entertaining.
 
2013-06-14 09:16:35 AM

thecpt: PsyLord: 58%?  Wow, that's not good.

Could be. Rt is far from perfect


No, RT is God.

Say something bad about a movie, people automatically say "But Rotten Tomatoes says it's 99.9999999% fresh! IT'S TEH BESTEST MOVIE EVAR!".

So the new Superman movie must suck.

/I already thought it would suck, but that's because DC generally sucks at movies that don't have Batman in them.
 
2013-06-14 09:17:23 AM
I see Warner Brothers is launching a new marketing campaign today saying the new Superman movie is really about Christianity, and pretty much if you love Jesus, then you should definitely bring out the whole family to see the movie. Actually, organize the church youth group to come see it as well, you know, for Jesus. They currently have the "story" plastered all over Fox News and other various media outlets that attract and instruct the rubes.

"By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising...kill yourself. Thank you. Just planting seeds, planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here, really. Seriously, kill yourself, you have no rationalisation for what you do, you are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show. Seriously, I know the marketing people: 'There's gonna be a joke comin' up.' There's no farkin' joke. Suck a tail pipe, hang yourself...borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy, do something...rid the world of your evil f*ckin' presence."
img397.imageshack.us
 
2013-06-14 09:18:32 AM

browser_snake: I can buy Waid's point of view here. But MAYBE since this is a novice Superman, we're seeing the reasons for the "Superman will not kill" creed, and MAYBE we're seeing the failed experience that drives Superman to be so much more protective of civilians in the future.


I think that's what I decided, too. Why I did ultimately enjoy it. And I'd happily go see it again today and ponder it all some more.
 
2013-06-14 09:21:49 AM

REO-Weedwagon: I see Warner Brothers is launching a new marketing campaign today saying the new Superman movie is really about Christianity, and pretty much if you love Jesus, then you should definitely bring out the whole family to see the movie. Actually, organize the church youth group to come see it as well, you know, for Jesus. They currently have the "story" plastered all over Fox News and other various media outlets that attract and instruct the rubes.

"By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising...kill yourself. Thank you. Just planting seeds, planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here, really. Seriously, kill yourself, you have no rationalisation for what you do, you are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show. Seriously, I know the marketing people: 'There's gonna be a joke comin' up.' There's no farkin' joke. Suck a tail pipe, hang yourself...borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy, do something...rid the world of your evil f*ckin' presence."


I mentioned all the Christ references in the movie and he basically responded like you just did... Lol. Sorry, they're there. Not saying its the reason to go see it, but damn, they were fairly overt.

Hubby didn't see them, though...
 
2013-06-14 09:23:21 AM
World War Z is rated at 80% and Superman: MOS at 58%.  Did I wake up in Bizarro Earth again?
 
2013-06-14 09:25:03 AM
I genuinely enjoyed it last night. But then, I've had enough with complex character development and emotional dynamics in Superman stories. I just wanted to see him have an epic battle with some superpowered aliens, and in that respect, the movie absolutely owned.

My only regret was the only midnight showing they had was in 3D. I might have to watch it again without that.
 
2013-06-14 09:25:33 AM

PsyLord: World War Z is rated at 80% and Superman: MOS at 58%.  Did I wake up in Bizarro Earth again?


I wonder... is anal sex "normal" sex on Bizarro World?
 
2013-06-14 09:27:21 AM
I'm still deciding on whether or not to go see it this morning.  I just looked at his non-spoiler part.
 
2013-06-14 09:27:37 AM
I saw this last night at a Prescreening and I loved it. It is a Superman movie. He actually gets to show off how powerful he really is.  How badass he can be. Yes, it is a "Batman Begins" of the Superman films but it is very much worth it.

The only issue, more of a pet peeve, is that there is no Jimmy Olson but a Jamie Olson. I do hate it when Hollywood has to make a change like that. Though in this film, it isn't that big a deal so I did not mind much.
 
2013-06-14 09:29:09 AM
All the people pointing to a Rotten Tomatoes score to determine how good the movie is just reminds me of why I don't give a shiat about Rotten Tomatoes: it's just a giant, navel-gazing feedback loop of bullshiat from people who have a vested interest in making you believe said bullshiat.

If you're curious about whether the movie is good, just go see the damn thing.
 
2013-06-14 09:29:21 AM
The reviewer is correct. In the comics, Superman does not kill.
 
2013-06-14 09:29:46 AM
REO-Weedwagon: ...
"By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising...kill yourself. Thank you. Just planting seeds, planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here, really. Seriously, kill yourself, you have no rationalisation for what you do, you are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show. Seriously, I know the marketing people: 'There's gonna be a joke comin' up.' There's no farkin' joke. Suck a tail pipe, hang yourself...borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy, do something...rid the world of your evil f*ckin' presence."

Hey.... :-(
 
2013-06-14 09:30:31 AM
Mark Waid does not know a lot about Superman. Mark Waid knows a lot about what he thinks Superman should be (insert stop liking things I don't like image here). And his navel-gazing opinioneering aside, the man doesn't know the first thing about writing a coherent movie review.
 
2013-06-14 09:34:09 AM

REO-Weedwagon: "By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising...kill yourself. Thank you. Just planting seeds, planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here, really. Seriously, kill yourself, you have no rationalisation for what you do, you are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show. Seriously, I know the marketing people: 'There's gonna be a joke comin' up.' There's no farkin' joke. Suck a tail pipe, hang yourself...borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy, do something...rid the world of your evil f*ckin' presence."


who would you rather have - Bankers and Lawyers? Salespeople? Telemarketers? Politicians? On the scale of bad people we are nowhere near the top.
 
2013-06-14 09:34:54 AM

Pilikia: Mark Waid does not know a lot about Superman. Mark Waid knows a lot about what he thinks Superman should be (insert stop liking things I don't like image here). And his navel-gazing opinioneering aside, the man doesn't know the first thing about writing a coherent movie review.


Yeah, the guy who wrote Kingdom Come and knows comic book history like the back of his hand knows NOTHING about Superman.
 
2013-06-14 09:36:44 AM
It was great. I'm confused by the negative reactions. It's everything you want out of a Superman film.
 
2013-06-14 09:38:44 AM

p the boiler: who would you rather have - Bankers and Lawyers? Salespeople? Telemarketers? Politicians? On the scale of bad people we are nowhere near the top.


It's definitely just my opinion, but bankers and lawyers do (presumably) provide a service that benefits people: they help you take care of your money or defend yourself in court. Marketing has no real service it provides to humanity. And politicians are only as bad as the morons that elect them, they ideally represent your interests in government. Salespeople and telemarketers are still essentially marketers/advertisers, so they're not really different.
 
2013-06-14 09:40:15 AM

Hebalo: It was great. I'm confused by the negative reactions. It's everything you want out of a Superman film.


The more I read the reviews, the more I think everyone wanted Superman Returns to be this film, and they wanted this film to be Superman Returns, and they're bothered enough to let you know about it by tanking the reviews for this film. And I think that's total bullshiat. I mean, complaining that it's too "sci-fi" and not enough "superhero" doesn't even make any farking sense.
 
2013-06-14 09:40:54 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Pilikia: Mark Waid does not know a lot about Superman. Mark Waid knows a lot about what he thinks Superman should be (insert stop liking things I don't like image here). And his navel-gazing opinioneering aside, the man doesn't know the first thing about writing a coherent movie review.

Yeah, the guy who wrote Kingdom Come and knows comic book history like the back of his hand knows NOTHING about Superman.


Waid's biggest biatch is about a specific action that he feels isn't part of Superman's moral character. While I understand his point of view, I also see that the character hasn't worked in a long time, and this movie changes that. I'll give Nolan and Goyer the benefit of the doubt.
 
2013-06-14 09:42:17 AM
I don't get the hate, it was the quintessential superman movie, not comic...movie. As in actually coherent storyline with developed characters, emotional bends in the plot line, and sustainable action to keep you hooked.

Basically we got 2/3 of development and origin that wasn't boring and then we got the last third with superman being superman, his choice at the end was befitting because he knew he had to do it and really did not want to.

un4gvn666: My only regret was the only midnight showing they had was in 3D. I might have to watch it again without that.


Do this. The movie wasn't filmed in 3D so it was added post production which can fark with how you view some of the actions sequences and fast moving scenes
 
2013-06-14 09:43:59 AM

un4gvn666: I genuinely enjoyed it last night. But then, I've had enough with complex character development and emotional dynamics in Superman stories. I just wanted to see him have an epic battle with some superpowered aliens, and in that respect, the movie absolutely owned.

My only regret was the only midnight showing they had was in 3D. I might have to watch it again without that.


I hope that's where the bad reviews are coming from. Not everything has to be dark and gritty! If there's no real Superman story, then there's nothing for dark and gritty to contrast itself with!
 
2013-06-14 09:47:21 AM

Hebalo: FirstNationalBastard: Pilikia: Mark Waid does not know a lot about Superman. Mark Waid knows a lot about what he thinks Superman should be (insert stop liking things I don't like image here). And his navel-gazing opinioneering aside, the man doesn't know the first thing about writing a coherent movie review.

Yeah, the guy who wrote Kingdom Come and knows comic book history like the back of his hand knows NOTHING about Superman.

Waid's biggest biatch is about a specific action that he feels isn't part of Superman's moral character. While I understand his point of view, I also see that the character hasn't worked in a long time, and this movie changes that. I'll give Nolan and Goyer the benefit of the doubt.


yeah the interesting thing about a lot of the "oh, that's not how superman would be!" responses is that unlike other recent reboots, we actually got to see what would happen if you went and just did a modern updated sequel to the donner films... and it kind of sucked. complaining that it went in a different direction from those films seems silly, in light of seeing what happens when you try and copy them.
 
2013-06-14 09:47:59 AM

un4gvn666: All the people pointing to a Rotten Tomatoes score to determine how good the movie is just reminds me of why I don't give a shiat about Rotten Tomatoes: it's just a giant, navel-gazing feedback loop of bullshiat from people who have a vested interest in making you believe said bullshiat.

If you're curious about whether the movie is good, just go see the damn thing.


So you see every movie made, since you can't rely on anyone else's opinion? Hollywood loves people like that, it means they don't have to make any effort in making a movie good, since people will buy a ticket anyway.
 
2013-06-14 09:49:05 AM

jonny_q: I hope that's where the bad reviews are coming from. Not everything has to be dark and gritty! If there's no real Superman story, then there's nothing for dark and gritty to contrast itself with!



It's much closer in tone to Batman Begins than The Avengers. But there's a shiatton of action in there. Some people on Twitter were biatching that there's too much action. I'd say the film felt about 10 mins too long, but it's a solid 8.5 or 9 out of 10.
 
2013-06-14 09:54:33 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: un4gvn666: All the people pointing to a Rotten Tomatoes score to determine how good the movie is just reminds me of why I don't give a shiat about Rotten Tomatoes: it's just a giant, navel-gazing feedback loop of bullshiat from people who have a vested interest in making you believe said bullshiat.

If you're curious about whether the movie is good, just go see the damn thing.

So you see every movie made, since you can't rely on anyone else's opinion? Hollywood loves people like that, it means they don't have to make any effort in making a movie good, since people will buy a ticket anyway.


No, I can't afford it. I only go to the theaters when I'm sufficiently interested in a movie. I happen to be a fan of DC Comics, so I was at the midnight screening for MoS. But relying on someone's shiatty opinion that I've never even met to determine if I'll see a movie just isn't gonna happen. To hear some of the reasons for why they rated MoS poorly from some of the reviews I've seen is just infuriating. People are just looking for something to hate about this movie.
 
2013-06-14 09:55:07 AM

QT_3.14159: I really liked it. But that review did voice what was bothering me about it. Superman wasn't going out of his way to protect anyone or move fights out of populated areas. While it was mostly just an excuse for destroying more skyscrapers, it did seem wrong.

Overall, though I did really love it. It really honed in on the alien/sci-go aspect of it. And it was really entertaining.


Maybe it's because it IS novice Superman. He doesn't know how to fight AND keep from hurting other people. It's all he can do to survive.

Also comic book Superman only ever killed once when he felt he had no choice fighting against 3 other Kryptonians, and only then because they were his equals and second against Doomsday.
 
2013-06-14 09:57:47 AM

Hebalo: It was great. I'm confused by the negative reactions. It's everything you want out of a Superman film.


It's not what I want out of a Superman film.  The reviews I have read and seen confirm what I thought from the trailers.  The tone reminds me of Batman Begins and the action reminds me of Transformers.  The parts with Ma and Pa Kent actually looked pretty good.  But I thought the whole Deadliest Catch: Superman bit looked pretty silly.
 
2013-06-14 09:59:15 AM

un4gvn666: Tyrone Slothrop: un4gvn666: All the people pointing to a Rotten Tomatoes score to determine how good the movie is just reminds me of why I don't give a shiat about Rotten Tomatoes: it's just a giant, navel-gazing feedback loop of bullshiat from people who have a vested interest in making you believe said bullshiat.

If you're curious about whether the movie is good, just go see the damn thing.

So you see every movie made, since you can't rely on anyone else's opinion? Hollywood loves people like that, it means they don't have to make any effort in making a movie good, since people will buy a ticket anyway.

No, I can't afford it. I only go to the theaters when I'm sufficiently interested in a movie. I happen to be a fan of DC Comics, so I was at the midnight screening for MoS. But relying on someone's shiatty opinion that I've never even met to determine if I'll see a movie just isn't gonna happen. To hear some of the reasons for why they rated MoS poorly from some of the reviews I've seen is just infuriating. People are just looking for something to hate about this movie.


So how can something get your interest? I've watched so many movies not in my demographic comfort zone due to rt scores and I'm happy for doing it. After all it's an aggregator that shouldn't be trusted the morning after the movie premiered
 
2013-06-14 10:00:22 AM

Electric_Banana: Hebalo: It was great. I'm confused by the negative reactions. It's everything you want out of a Superman film.

It's not what I want out of a Superman film.  The reviews I have read and seen confirm what I thought from the trailers.  The tone reminds me of Batman Begins and the action reminds me of Transformers.  The parts with Ma and Pa Kent actually looked pretty good.  But I thought the whole Deadliest Catch: Superman bit looked pretty silly.


So you haven't seen it, but you KNOW it's not what you want? You have skills. The part you think is silly is all of 8 minutes long, and useful for establishing where the character is when we meet him. But hey, what do I know, I've only actually seen it, you're better off slagging it blind.
 
2013-06-14 10:00:44 AM
I liked his review and it's one of few negative ones who make sense. Seriously, RT is full of idiotic reviews. Especially Rex Reeds...

They wanted Superman Returns II.

We got Holy shiatballs: The Origin.

And while I respect Waid, I agree with another FARKer that he's too navelgazing about what Superman is. Plus it's not as if Superman hadn't done in the Donner movies what he did here. Except he did it in a more sadistic way and with ZERO emotional development and feeback:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0 (Don't watch the video if you don't want spoilers)
 
2013-06-14 10:01:28 AM

bulok: QT_3.14159: I really liked it. But that review did voice what was bothering me about it. Superman wasn't going out of his way to protect anyone or move fights out of populated areas. While it was mostly just an excuse for destroying more skyscrapers, it did seem wrong.

Overall, though I did really love it. It really honed in on the alien/sci-go aspect of it. And it was really entertaining.

Maybe it's because it IS novice Superman. He doesn't know how to fight AND keep from hurting other people. It's all he can do to survive.

Also comic book Superman only ever killed once when he felt he had no choice fighting against 3 other Kryptonians, and only then because they were his equals and second against Doomsday.


A fundamental difference between that story and Man of Steel is that the comic incarnation executed defeated opponents for fear of what harm they may have potentially caused in the future, and not because it was the only immediate method to prevent the death of innocent people.

Which actually makes the comic incarnation's killing worse, now that I consider the matter.
 
2013-06-14 10:02:04 AM

thecpt: So how can something get your interest?


Be about superheroes, have really good actors, be made by someone I trust to make good movies.

Anything else, I just can't afford it.

/kinda circles back to the whole "marketers are worthless" topic
 
2013-06-14 10:02:45 AM
Gah, Fark. Here's the video link:

http://youtu.be/jUORL-bvwA0

Again, spoilers.

Regarding the movie. Go see it. Can't be worse than a 7/10. I personally rank it at 8-8.5/10.

Everybody's biatching because they wanted the Second Coming of Christ.
 
2013-06-14 10:04:20 AM

Electric_Banana: The tone reminds me of Batman Begins and the action reminds me of Transformers.  The parts with Ma and Pa Kent actually looked pretty good.


They already made a movie for you, filled with complex character interaction and emotional unrest. It was called Superman Returns.

And what a surprise, critics loved it (75% "fresh" rating) while everyone else thought it was crap.

Electric_Banana: But I thought the whole Deadliest Catch: Superman bit looked pretty silly.


That is literally less than 5 minutes of the whole film.
 
2013-06-14 10:04:29 AM

Electric_Banana: Hebalo: It was great. I'm confused by the negative reactions. It's everything you want out of a Superman film.

It's not what I want out of a Superman film.  The reviews I have read and seen confirm what I thought from the trailers.  The tone reminds me of Batman Begins and the action reminds me of Transformers.  The parts with Ma and Pa Kent actually looked pretty good.  But I thought the whole Deadliest Catch: Superman bit looked pretty silly.


Deadliest Catch: Superman was like 5 minutes long and gets put into perspective while you watch the movie. And it is not a bad thing for it to take a tone like Batman Begins and use it for Superman. We actually get to see a Superman that is not explored in motion pictures of any kind. A conflicted Clark searching for who he really is. Most of the Superman series and movies I have seen is that of Clark knowing who he is and what hes going to do. Smallville might be the only other one I can think of that does not have a Superman that knows he's Superman. But I never really watched Smallville.
 
2013-06-14 10:04:36 AM
FYI:  The director of MOS directed 300, which has a 60 on RT.   So, if you've seen 300, there is your benchmark.
 
2013-06-14 10:05:59 AM

rocky_howard: And while I respect Waid, I agree with another FARKer that he's too navelgazing about what Superman is. Plus it's not as if Superman hadn't done in the Donner movies what he did here. Except he did it in a more sadistic way and with ZERO emotional development and feeback:


Don't forget the follow up in the third where he loses his power, gets beaten up, gets his power and then GOES BACK to kick that same guys ass

Superman in this movie is ten times more empathetic than the dick in the originals

Dimensio: Which actually makes the comic incarnation's killing worse, now that I consider the matter.


Exactly
 
2013-06-14 10:06:13 AM

Dimensio: bulok: QT_3.14159: I really liked it. But that review did voice what was bothering me about it. Superman wasn't going out of his way to protect anyone or move fights out of populated areas. While it was mostly just an excuse for destroying more skyscrapers, it did seem wrong.

Overall, though I did really love it. It really honed in on the alien/sci-go aspect of it. And it was really entertaining.

Maybe it's because it IS novice Superman. He doesn't know how to fight AND keep from hurting other people. It's all he can do to survive.

Also comic book Superman only ever killed once when he felt he had no choice fighting against 3 other Kryptonians, and only then because they were his equals and second against Doomsday.

A fundamental difference between that story and Man of Steel is that the comic incarnation executed defeated opponents for fear of what harm they may have potentially caused in the future, and not because it was the only immediate method to prevent the death of innocent people.

Which actually makes the comic incarnation's killing worse, now that I consider the matter.


Not to mention that one of the themes of the film is the concept of whether two worlds can co-exist, and Supes is the embodiment of that.
 
2013-06-14 10:07:04 AM

rocky_howard: I liked his review and it's one of few negative ones who make sense. Seriously, RT is full of idiotic reviews. Especially Rex Reeds...

They wanted Superman Returns II.

We got Holy shiatballs: The Origin.

And while I respect Waid, I agree with another FARKer that he's too navelgazing about what Superman is. Plus it's not as if Superman hadn't done in the Donner movies what he did here. Except he did it in a more sadistic way and with ZERO emotional development and feeback:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0 (Don't watch the video if you don't want spoilers)


A deleted scene (sometimes retained on television showings) reveals the depowered Kryptonian villains to be alive and taken into custody by the "arctic police". That scene explains why the repercussions of killing the villains is not explored in the movie; even if the final explanation is that the villains were killed, the actors behaved as though the villains were nonlethally subdued.
 
2013-06-14 10:07:28 AM

Rhypskallion: The director of MOS directed 300, which has a 60 on RT


Even more confirmation that RT is worthless. 300 was farking awesome.

/not sure about the sequel, but I'm intrigued
 
2013-06-14 10:07:32 AM

un4gvn666: Be about superheroes, have really good actors, be made by someone I trust to make good movies.


Newsflash, this fills all those roles
 
2013-06-14 10:10:39 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: un4gvn666: Be about superheroes, have really good actors, be made by someone I trust to make good movies.

Newsflash, this fills all those roles


Exactly. That's why I went to the theaters for the first time in about 6 months to watch it at midnight yesterday. And I would have done that regardless of whatever silly bullshiat was posted by the snobs over at RT. Thankfully, the movie was incredible. Easily one of the top 5 superhero movies ever made.
 
2013-06-14 10:10:49 AM
Superman Movies just don't really work! In EVERY single Superman movie (I've not seen this one yet), the only way to beat Superman is to take away his powers. It's because the canon of the comic makes him completely and totally unbeatable.

They should just move on and do Red Son. I know they need to do Justice League first, but truthfully, we've seen all facets of the American Superman we can. It's become a rote and tired. Having not seen this new movie, I can only guess he's a conflicted youth that grows up to be flawed. That's the trend for the movies these days. Add in Zod (he needs someone on his own power level to fight) and it's gonna be fight sequences that make Michael Bay cum immediately.

I'll go see it, I know I will. Now to read the review.
 
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