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(Abc.net.au)   "Peace Walls" in Northern Ireland are to be taken down over the next ten years. In other news, Peace Walls are still up in Northern Ireland to keep the Protestants and Catholics from killing each other   (abc.net.au) divider line 91
    More: Misc, Northern Ireland, Protestants, Catholics, peace lines, Martin McGuinness, Sinn Fein, peace  
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1931 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 8:20 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 07:56:20 AM
Religions of Peace?
 
2013-06-14 08:00:55 AM
When we were in middle school, a buddy's family had two Irish girls come stay at his house for the summer, one protestant and one catholic.  Sort of a "Look how tolerant America is" exchange type deal.  They got along great with each other, but everybody else thought they were total biatches, and shunned them socially.
 
2013-06-14 08:22:38 AM
Good fences make good neighbors.
 
2013-06-14 08:22:59 AM
This will end badly.
 
2013-06-14 08:29:11 AM
Mister Higgins, clib síos an balla.
 
2013-06-14 08:30:16 AM

edmo: Religions of Peace?


Over in one.
 
2013-06-14 08:31:31 AM

Farce-Side: When we were in middle school, a buddy's family had two Irish girls come stay at his house for the summer, one protestant and one catholic.  Sort of a "Look how tolerant America is" exchange type deal.  They got along great with each other, but everybody else thought they were total biatches, and shunned them socially.


Your school's xenophobia probably accomplished something for peace in Northern Ireland.
 
2013-06-14 08:33:07 AM

edmo: Religions of Peace?


Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.
 
2013-06-14 08:35:00 AM
At some point, they're going to have to learn to live next to each other without being at each other's throats...
 
2013-06-14 08:35:47 AM
So...  Israel of the North, huh?
 
2013-06-14 08:36:06 AM

NutWrench: Good fences make good neighbors.


Great poem
 
2013-06-14 08:39:41 AM

Carn: It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.


If your family all goes to the same church, that does not make your family a religious organization.
 
2013-06-14 08:41:27 AM

JasonOfOrillia: Farce-Side: When we were in middle school, a buddy's family had two Irish girls come stay at his house for the summer, one protestant and one catholic.  Sort of a "Look how tolerant America is" exchange type deal.  They got along great with each other, but everybody else thought they were total biatches, and shunned them socially.

Your school's xenophobia probably accomplished something for peace in Northern Ireland.


Summer.  No school.  Just good ol' Southern social xenophobia.  I like to think we were responsible for not only making peace between the protestants and catholics, but teaching them to hate not based on minor differences in religion, but on tangible things like skin color and sexual orientation.
 
2013-06-14 08:41:43 AM

Carn: It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.


Let's ask Father Berrigan what he thinks.
 
2013-06-14 08:41:54 AM

Farce-Side: When we were in middle school, a buddy's family had two Irish girls come stay at his house for the summer, one protestant and one catholic.  Sort of a "Look how tolerant America is" exchange type deal.  They got along great with each other, but everybody else thought they were total biatches, and shunned them socially.


Pics or it didn't happen.  You know the kind of pics I mean.
 
2013-06-14 08:42:29 AM
I like the picture in the article, too... Wonder if it's quoting the Damien Dempsey song?

Damien Dempsey - It's All Good

But it's all good, it's all good
All I say to you today
It's all good an' sure it's all good
All I say to you today

And positivity, yeah
It is the way for me, yeah
It is truth, it is youth
 
2013-06-14 08:43:18 AM

Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.


I am John, Lord Marbury, Earl of Croy, Marquis of Needham and Dolby, Baronet of Brycey, England's ambassador to the United States, and a terrorist is a terrorist even if he wears a green necktie and sings "Danny Boy". Yes, you can call me John.
 
2013-06-14 08:44:49 AM
a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com
 
2013-06-14 08:45:25 AM

Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.


You really don't know much about Northern Ireland, do you?
 
2013-06-14 08:46:30 AM

Deep Contact: [a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com image 600x450]


Conditioner. Look into it.
 
2013-06-14 08:46:33 AM

NutWrench: Good fences make good neighbors.


Truer words were never spoke, and the older you get the more you come around to that way of thinking.

My niece lives in an urban area in a condo, she and her boyfriend are doing without a car for a couple of years to save money, they use public trans. The condo came with a driveway and she started allowing a neighbor to use it since she wasn't using it. I told her this was ALWAYS a bad idea. Sure enough, the neighbor now considers the driveway as their property - to the point that recently, when my niece asked them to move their car so a weekend visitor could park there, the neighbor refused saying they "needed" the driveway for one reason or another.

She said "What can I do?"

I said: "Call a farkin' tow truck and have that pile of junk hauled out of there."

Back to Northern Ireland - that's one of those problems that the more you study and read about the situation, the less you understand. My ancestor left Scotland and ended up in Northern Ireland. Knowing a good thing when he saw it, he realized this was far from a good thing and got back on the boat for the passage to America.
 
2013-06-14 08:46:53 AM

Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.


To be fair, there is a small distinction: While muslim extremists want the world to be muslim, if not by peaceful means then otherwise, the IRA, though I'm diametrically opposed to their tactics, believe Northern Ireland is illegally occupied by an oppressive regime.
 
2013-06-14 08:49:35 AM

MemeSlave: Farce-Side: When we were in middle school, a buddy's family had two Irish girls come stay at his house for the summer, one protestant and one catholic.  Sort of a "Look how tolerant America is" exchange type deal.  They got along great with each other, but everybody else thought they were total biatches, and shunned them socially.

Pics or it didn't happen.  You know the kind of pics I mean.


Crap I just re-read that.  Middle-school?   No thanks.
 
2013-06-14 08:51:14 AM

Farce-Side: Summer.  No school.  Just good ol' Southern social xenophobia.  I like to think we were responsible for not only making peace between the protestants and catholics, but teaching them to hate not based on minor differences in religion, but on tangible things like skin color and sexual orientation.


When I was about 10 we hosted a pair of boys, one protestant (as we are) and one catholic. The whole thing seemed silly in a way because the whole group of kids in the city got along totally fine with each other. They weren't exactly the bombing and murdering sort. Maybe that's because they were kids still, but who knows. Frankly there would have been more conflict (and perhaps more lasting benefit) if they'd taken a poor white kid from the north and a poor black kid from the south and made them share a bedroom all summer.
 
2013-06-14 08:52:17 AM

Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.


They've still got one? What does their body count look like these days?
I gotta tell you, based on the media coverage the competition is totally kicking their asses.
 
2013-06-14 08:52:50 AM

MemeSlave: Pics or it didn't happen.  You know the kind of pics I mean.


Well dude, middle school was a while ago, like before digital cameras existed, so I'll try to hunt down the negatives from that summer in my mom's attic or some shiat and be sure to mail them to you first class.
 
2013-06-14 08:53:56 AM

MemeSlave: MemeSlave: Farce-Side: When we were in middle school, a buddy's family had two Irish girls come stay at his house for the summer, one protestant and one catholic.  Sort of a "Look how tolerant America is" exchange type deal.  They got along great with each other, but everybody else thought they were total biatches, and shunned them socially.

Pics or it didn't happen.  You know the kind of pics I mean.

Crap I just re-read that.  Middle-school?   No thanks.


I was thinking of saying something so I'm glad you did first.
 
2013-06-14 08:55:15 AM
Off topic, but since we're talking about Ireland, my niece just repeated as Irish boxing champ in her weight class.

/way to go Amy!
 
2013-06-14 08:55:21 AM

MemeSlave: MemeSlave: Farce-Side: When we were in middle school, a buddy's family had two Irish girls come stay at his house for the summer, one protestant and one catholic.  Sort of a "Look how tolerant America is" exchange type deal.  They got along great with each other, but everybody else thought they were total biatches, and shunned them socially.

Pics or it didn't happen.  You know the kind of pics I mean.

Crap I just re-read that.  Middle-school?   No thanks.


Too old?
 
2013-06-14 08:55:42 AM
Was there a few years back - the walls were still up and I believe they even closed the gates on the weekends.  For some sort of exchange of Monopoly money with the locals, we even took a bus tour that let us look at the memorial paintings on the sides of the buildings in Northern Ireland.  Apparently, they commemorated the heroes that died for the cause.

/kind of like Anakin.
 
2013-06-14 08:56:03 AM

Crewmannumber6: Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.

To be fair, there is a small distinction: While muslim extremists want the world to be muslim, if not by peaceful means then otherwise, the IRA, though I'm diametrically opposed to their tactics, believe Northern Ireland is illegally occupied by an oppressive regime.


Actually, most Muslim extremists want to "liberate" Muslim countries from oppressive regimes (in order to impose theocracy). They want the world to be Muslim in the way that evangelical Christians want the world to be Christian. Sort of an ideal goal, but not what all the suicide bombing is about.

The IRA are full of crap. Northern Ireland is majority Protestant, and the majority WANT to remain part of the U.K. There was a lot of anti-Catholic oppression in Northern Ireland that led to the Troubles, but there's no legitimacy to the argument that Northern Ireland is "occupied." When the land was confiscated from Catholics, it was taken from hereditary nobles who inherited it from people who conquered it with the sword. You can't biatch about other nobility kicking your nobility's ass; that's what nobles do.
 
2013-06-14 08:56:55 AM

Crewmannumber6: Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.

To be fair, there is a small distinction: While muslim extremists want the world to be muslim, if not by peaceful means then otherwise, the IRA, though I'm diametrically opposed to their tactics, believe Northern Ireland is illegally occupied by an oppressive regime.


I'd certainly say the that IRA's cause was more just, but like you say, the tactics not so much.
 
2013-06-14 08:57:34 AM

Cormee: Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.

You really don't know much about Northern Ireland, do you?


It's on the south side of the island, right?
 
2013-06-14 08:58:16 AM

give me doughnuts: Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.

They've still got one? What does their body count look like these days?
I gotta tell you, based on the media coverage the competition is totally kicking their asses.


What does it look like at tis height...
 
2013-06-14 08:59:15 AM

mbillips: Crewmannumber6: Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.

To be fair, there is a small distinction: While muslim extremists want the world to be muslim, if not by peaceful means then otherwise, the IRA, though I'm diametrically opposed to their tactics, believe Northern Ireland is illegally occupied by an oppressive regime.

Actually, most Muslim extremists want to "liberate" Muslim countries from oppressive regimes (in order to impose theocracy). They want the world to be Muslim in the way that evangelical Christians want the world to be Christian. Sort of an ideal goal, but not what all the suicide bombing is about.

The IRA are full of crap. Northern Ireland is majority Protestant, and the majority WANT to remain part of the U.K. There was a lot of anti-Catholic oppression in Northern Ireland that led to the Troubles, but there's no legitimacy to the argument that Northern Ireland is "occupied." When the land was confiscated from Catholics, it was taken from hereditary nobles who inherited it from people who conquered it with the sword. You can't biatch about other nobility kicking your nobility's ass; that's what nobles do.


No argument here, I have family on  both sides of the border, mostly in Dundalk (El Paso), and nobody has sympathy for the IRA or their cause. They see them as we in the states see the mafia.
 
2013-06-14 08:59:48 AM

give me doughnuts: Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.

They've still got one? What does their body count look like these days?
I gotta tell you, based on the media coverage the competition is totally kicking their asses.


Maybe they're lulling everyone into a false sense of security.
 
2013-06-14 09:01:49 AM

Carn: Maybe they're lulling everyone into a false sense of security.


Look, matey, I know a dead terrorist group when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
 
2013-06-14 09:03:39 AM

Carn: give me doughnuts: Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.

They've still got one? What does their body count look like these days?
I gotta tell you, based on the media coverage the competition is totally kicking their asses.

Maybe they're lulling everyone into a false sense of security.


They still have a high command? Can't ask more than that.

/just rewatched it last night
//killing little protestants
 
2013-06-14 09:05:06 AM

OldManDownDRoad: NutWrench: Good fences make good neighbors.

Truer words were never spoke, and the older you get the more you come around to that way of thinking.

My niece lives in an urban area in a condo, she and her boyfriend are doing without a car for a couple of years to save money, they use public trans. The condo came with a driveway and she started allowing a neighbor to use it since she wasn't using it. I told her this was ALWAYS a bad idea. Sure enough, the neighbor now considers the driveway as their property - to the point that recently, when my niece asked them to move their car so a weekend visitor could park there, the neighbor refused saying they "needed" the driveway for one reason or another.

She said "What can I do?"

I said: "Call a farkin' tow truck and have that pile of junk hauled out of there."

Back to Northern Ireland - that's one of those problems that the more you study and read about the situation, the less you understand. My ancestor left Scotland and ended up in Northern Ireland. Knowing a good thing when he saw it, he realized this was far from a good thing and got back on the boat for the passage to America.


There was a semi detached across from where I used to live and the woman didn't have a car but her attached neighbour decided to start parking in her drive way. Her solution: Put big rocks in the middle of her driveway. I think they learned quick
 
2013-06-14 09:05:42 AM

mbillips: The IRA are full of crap. Northern Ireland is majority Protestant, and the majority WANT to remain part of the U.K. There was a lot of anti-Catholic oppression in Northern Ireland that led to the Troubles, but there's no legitimacy to the argument that Northern Ireland is "occupied." When the land was confiscated from Catholics, it was taken from hereditary nobles who inherited it from people who conquered it with the sword. You can't biatch about other nobility kicking your nobility's ass; that's what nobles do


I agree with the sentiment that it was long enough ago, however the fighing for Ireland when England was taking it over wasn't noble vs noble.
 
2013-06-14 09:06:14 AM
My cousin was the principal of the first integrated school in Belfast. Upon hearing this I asked "There are black people in Ireland?"

Dumb American I guess, but it was very foreign to me to have the state divide schools along religious lines.
 
2013-06-14 09:06:50 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Carn: Maybe they're lulling everyone into a false sense of security.

Look, matey, I know a dead terrorist group when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.


An ex-terrorist group?
 
2013-06-14 09:07:14 AM

liam76: mbillips: The IRA are full of crap. Northern Ireland is majority Protestant, and the majority WANT to remain part of the U.K. There was a lot of anti-Catholic oppression in Northern Ireland that led to the Troubles, but there's no legitimacy to the argument that Northern Ireland is "occupied." When the land was confiscated from Catholics, it was taken from hereditary nobles who inherited it from people who conquered it with the sword. You can't biatch about other nobility kicking your nobility's ass; that's what nobles do

I agree with the sentiment that it was long enough ago, however the fighing for Ireland when England was taking it over wasn't noble vs noble.


Plantation. English ascendancy displacing entire regions of natives in a land grab.
 
2013-06-14 09:07:41 AM

give me doughnuts: They've still got one? What does their body count look like these days?


Like this

static.guim.co.uk

Though you're right that the prods are far more active these days. Not so much to keep NI in the UK - that's agreed for the foreseeable future - but to protect and expand their drug dealing patches.
 
2013-06-14 09:10:48 AM

ronaprhys: Was there a few years back - the walls were still up and I believe they even closed the gates on the weekends


They even have fences across at least one park, to remove any possibility of children from the two communities playing together, making friends and all that sort of terrible, subversive stuff that children do.

www.dw.de
 
2013-06-14 09:11:53 AM
Whatever your opinion of the troubles, there are two movies you should see
Omagh
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408056/?ref_=sr_1

and Five Minutes Of Heaven
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1238291/?ref_=sr_1
 
2013-06-14 09:12:07 AM

orbister: give me doughnuts: They've still got one? What does their body count look like these days?

Like this

[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]

Though you're right that the prods are far more active these days. Not so much to keep NI in the UK - that's agreed for the foreseeable future - but to protect and expand their drug dealing patches.


1998?

Ok, I will allow 15 years ago as "these days".  I believe that was the biggest loss of life from a catholic terrorist bombings.  They also called ahead as a warning.  Want to compare that to muslim bombings inthe last month?
 
2013-06-14 09:14:51 AM

orbister: Like this


You do realise that was about 25 years ago?
 
2013-06-14 09:16:46 AM

R.A.Danny: Dumb American I guess, but it was very foreign to me to have the state divide schools along religious lines.


We have that division in Scotland too, and it causes very similar problems, particularly in the west. Recently a shared campus was proposed for tim and prod schools near Edinburgh, but the Catholic Church vetoed the design because the two (otherwise wholly separate) teaching staffs were to share toilets. It's a lovely message to give children, isn't it? Those other children are so foul, so sinful, so polluting, that even to have the people who teach them wash their hands in the same place as the people who teach you might transmit the vileness to you.

As a born, bred and resident Scot I detest segregated education more than anything else about my country, which is generally a good place to live.
 
2013-06-14 09:17:19 AM
*15
 
2013-06-14 09:18:17 AM

NutWrench: Good fences make good neighbors.


That's not what he meant.

Rather than make a bunch of ugly walls just move the Catholic pubs more than 2km from the Protestant pubs.  Problem solved.
 
2013-06-14 09:18:21 AM

Crewmannumber6: Carn: edmo: Religions of Peace?

Don't be silly, only evil muslims kill each other and blow people up.  It's not like there's a catholic terrorist organization or anything.

To be fair, there is a small distinction: While muslim extremists want the world to be muslim, if not by peaceful means then otherwise, the IRA, though I'm diametrically opposed to their tactics, believe Northern Ireland is illegally occupied by an oppressive regime.


Yeah, 'cos not one Muslim extremist ever quoted anything about "illegal occupation" and "oppressive regime."|

Ya dummy.
 
2013-06-14 09:19:13 AM

orbister: which is generally a good place to live.


It's a gorgeous place, as is Ireland. Sadly everyone is still paying for the intolerance of a very vocal minority.

Just like here in the States.
 
2013-06-14 09:24:59 AM

orbister: R.A.Danny: Dumb American I guess, but it was very foreign to me to have the state divide schools along religious lines.

We have that division in Scotland too, and it causes very similar problems, particularly in the west. Recently a shared campus was proposed for tim and prod schools near Edinburgh, but the Catholic Church vetoed the design because the two (otherwise wholly separate) teaching staffs were to share toilets. It's a lovely message to give children, isn't it? Those other children are so foul, so sinful, so polluting, that even to have the people who teach them wash their hands in the same place as the people who teach you might transmit the vileness to you.

As a born, bred and resident Scot I detest segregated education more than anything else about my country, which is generally a good place to live.


Wow, I understood there is a Catholic/Protestant social divide in Scotland but not that schools are divided.

/Honeymooned in Oban, lovely place!
 
2013-06-14 09:26:08 AM

liam76: Ok, I will allow 15 years ago as "these days".  I believe that was the biggest loss of life from a catholic terrorist bombings.  They also called ahead as a warning.  Want to compare that to muslim bombings inthe last month?


The warning at Omagh indicated the wrong location, resulting in people moving from safety to where the bomb actually was. Whether that was deliberate or not, it explains in part the very high loss off life.

Since then? Check their record. The Real IRA is very far from inactive. I don't think there have been any Muslim bombings in NI, or indeed anywhere in the UK, over the past month.
 
2013-06-14 09:30:39 AM
There's been a lot of talk about this song being a rebel song.

/not obscure
 
2013-06-14 09:31:45 AM

Cormee: *15


Battle of the Boyne: coming up for 323 years. Fifteen years is nothing in NI.
 
2013-06-14 09:32:49 AM

R.A.Danny: It's a gorgeous place, as is Ireland. Sadly everyone is still paying for the intolerance of a very vocal minority.


I love Ireland too, north and south. As you say, it's a tiny, tiny minority who spoil it.
 
2013-06-14 09:36:34 AM

I'm no expert but...: Wow, I understood there is a Catholic/Protestant social divide in Scotland but not that schools are divided.


Historically it's because the Catholic Church originally set up schools for the children of its members, who were not otherwise well served by the education system. When schools were nationalised, the Catholic Church handed its over on the condition that there would be continuing segregated provision. In many areas it works just fine, and indeed by all accounts my local RC primary is a lovely, friendly school, but in some places - mainly the working class areas of the central belt - segregated schools feed and feed off deep social divisions.
 
2013-06-14 09:38:02 AM
Visited NI (Derry) for the first time last summer with some friends. Beautiful city, and still a bit haunting with the murals and memorials to the Troubles. I don't have a dog in the fight really, but a lot of my Irish friends think that they will see a unified Ireland in their lifetimes.

All I can say is that the roads in NI were better than in the republic.
 
2013-06-14 09:39:15 AM

orbister: Cormee: *15

Battle of the Boyne: coming up for 323 years. Fifteen years is nothing in NI.


The vast majority of people there think it is and want to move on.

Posting a 15 year old photo under the pretence it's what's currently happening is incorrect, regardless of what you think.
 
2013-06-14 09:41:39 AM

tom baker's scarf: NutWrench: Good fences make good neighbors.

That's not what he meant.

Rather than make a bunch of ugly walls just move the Catholic pubs more than 2km from the Protestant pubs.  Problem solved.


That's certainly one way to do it, but when teaching and sermonizing fail, walls are the most cost effective way, short of flogging to compel people to behave with a minimum of decency and restraint. Frost, in his poem,  was actually questioning the need for building walls at all, feeling that people should carry those values internally, without the need for having them imposed from the outside. It seemed like an appropriate quote at the time.
 
2013-06-14 09:55:21 AM

UDel_Kitty: All I can say is that the roads in NI were better than in the republic.


Yeah, but other than the roads, what have the English ever done for us?

/no aqueducts
 
2013-06-14 09:55:25 AM

orbister: liam76: Ok, I will allow 15 years ago as "these days". I believe that was the biggest loss of life from a catholic terrorist bombings. They also called ahead as a warning. Want to compare that to muslim bombings inthe last month?

The warning at Omagh indicated the wrong location, resulting in people moving from safety to where the bomb actually was. Whether that was deliberate or not, it explains in part the very high loss off life.


IIRC they said "Main street" and there was no main street but a "market street", however there was a "main" shopping center that was evacuated.

If it was intentional to get large casualties they took some very lucky guesses abotu what the police would do with a nonexistant street.

orbister: Since then? Check their record. The Real IRA is very far from inactive. I don't think there have been any Muslim bombings in NI, or indeed anywhere in the UK, over the past month


         Point > .

Your head > .

The most notorious catholic terrorist organization, at it's height, was small potatos compared to Muslim ones.  In terms of body count, tactics, and targeting of people in third party nations.

You didn't have the IRA or IRA sympathizers killing people in Canada for insulting Islam.  You didn't have riots in other Catholic countries because of a picture they didn't like.
 
2013-06-14 09:57:34 AM

UDel_Kitty: but a lot of my Irish friends think that they will see a unified Ireland in their lifetimes


Interesting though that. There is a reasonable chance Scotland will become independant which may well lead to Wales going the same route. Would pro-UK Northern Irish then think maybe unification may be better than being a United Kingdom of England And Northern Ireland?
 
2013-06-14 10:01:44 AM

R.A.Danny: My cousin was the principal of the first integrated school in Belfast. Upon hearing this I asked "There are black people in Ireland?"

Dumb American I guess, but it was very foreign to me to have the state divide schools along religious lines.


The only way I could ever get my head around the whole Orange/Green thing was to map it to the
white/black prejudices in the American South.

It also took me a long time to understand the whole "2 Countries/1 Nation" concept that most Irish seem to
have about the whole thing.

/Mom was born in County Roscommon; Grandfather was in Michael Collins' IRA
 
2013-06-14 10:04:37 AM

I'm no expert but...: UDel_Kitty: but a lot of my Irish friends think that they will see a unified Ireland in their lifetimes

Interesting though that. There is a reasonable chance Scotland will become independant which may well lead to Wales going the same route. Would pro-UK Northern Irish then think maybe unification may be better than being a United Kingdom of England And Northern Ireland?


I doubt Scotland will cut ties.  If they do I don't think that is good reason to think Wales will.

They don't have the oil money.

Pro-UK Northern Irish are going to be no more inclined towards reunification with Ireland if Scotland leaves.
 
2013-06-14 10:07:30 AM

I'm no expert but...: UDel_Kitty: but a lot of my Irish friends think that they will see a unified Ireland in their lifetimes

Interesting though that. There is a reasonable chance Scotland will become independant which may well lead to Wales going the same route. Would pro-UK Northern Irish then think maybe unification may be better than being a United Kingdom of England And Northern Ireland?


I'd have to ask them their thoughts on that! I tend to not discuss politics with them because I know zilch, and when they're all together, they get all fired up. I've got one friend who is from NI and she will go off about the "prods" if you get her in the right mood. It's all learned though, she's too young to have witnessed the worst of the troubles.

/plays Irish sports, which is how I have all these Irish friends
 
2013-06-14 10:10:44 AM

UDel_Kitty: All I can say is that the roads in NI were better than in the republic.


Oh yes indeed. Having those nice broad verges (to reduce ambush opportunities) helps too. Driving styles are very different too. In the north drivers are fast to the point of lunatic and competent; in the south they are slow and very courteous. Both sides of the border are nice places to drive.
 
2013-06-14 10:14:11 AM

UDel_Kitty: Visited NI (Derry) for the first time last summer with some friends. Beautiful city, and still a bit haunting with the murals and memorials to the Troubles. I don't have a dog in the fight really, but a lot of my Irish friends think that they will see a unified Ireland in their lifetimes.

All I can say is that the roads in NI were better than in the republic.


www.indymedia.ie
 
2013-06-14 10:14:31 AM

I'm no expert but...: Interesting though that. There is a reasonable chance Scotland will become independant which may well lead to Wales going the same route.


Scottish independence is looking very unlikely. If it starts looking a real possibility, England would be sensible to get out first, leaving us with the nest of vipers across the north channel.
 
2013-06-14 10:16:04 AM

liam76: The most notorious catholic terrorist organization, at it's height, was small potatos compared to Muslim ones.


One dark night in Northern Ireland ...

Are ye a Protestant or a Catholic?
Actually I'm Jewish.
Then I'm the luckiest Muslim in Belfast
 
2013-06-14 10:20:31 AM

orbister: liam76: The most notorious catholic terrorist organization, at it's height, was small potatos compared to Muslim ones.

One dark night in Northern Ireland ...

Are ye a Protestant or a Catholic?
Actually I'm Jewish.
Then I'm the luckiest Muslim in Belfast


Haha, never heard that one...
 
2013-06-14 10:30:11 AM

orbister: liam76: The most notorious catholic terrorist organization, at it's height, was small potatos compared to Muslim ones.

One dark night in Northern Ireland ...

Are ye a Protestant or a Catholic?
Actually I'm Jewish.
Then I'm the luckiest Muslim in Belfast


This made me snicker.

CSB time:
A friend's ex-fiance told of a friend of hers who wanted to take photos of the murals in Belfast. Said friend was Jewish, and made sure the wear her Star of David very prominently that day. /Yes, Virginia, there are Jews in Ireland; the Lord Mayor of Dublin for many years, for one.
 
2013-06-14 10:44:06 AM

DjangoStonereaver: /Yes, Virginia, there are Jews in Ireland; the Lord Mayor of Dublin for many years, for one.


There's a Muslim Cultural Center in Dundalk

/and a Brazillian population in Galway
 
2013-06-14 11:03:50 AM

Crewmannumber6: DjangoStonereaver: /Yes, Virginia, there are Jews in Ireland; the Lord Mayor of Dublin for many years, for one.

There's a Muslim Cultural Center in Dundalk

/and a Brazillian population in Galway


I didn't think they had that many people in Ireland.
 
2013-06-14 11:31:29 AM

Carn: I didn't think they had that many people in Ireland.


Excuse me! Our population has doubled in the last ten years

... to 11
 
2013-06-14 11:48:01 AM

Carn: Crewmannumber6: DjangoStonereaver: /Yes, Virginia, there are Jews in Ireland; the Lord Mayor of Dublin for many years, for one.

There's a Muslim Cultural Center in Dundalk

/and a Brazillian population in Galway

I didn't think they had that many people in Ireland.


Galway's a big town.  Its all the crystal, you know.
 
2013-06-14 11:53:23 AM

Crewmannumber6: DjangoStonereaver: /Yes, Virginia, there are Jews in Ireland; the Lord Mayor of Dublin for many years, for one.

There's a Muslim Cultural Center in Dundalk

/and a Brazillian population in Galway


SF author David Gerrold told a story of a visit to an author friend (I want to say Anne McCaffrey) who lived
in Dublin once.  He'd just gotten off the plane from California, and was severely jet lagged, but right after
she picked him up at Dublin Airport she said they must go to breakfast straight away at her favorite chinese
restaurant.

The restaurant's decor was pure China:  satin wall tapestries, bamboo screens, hanging lanterns, the
whole schmeer.  They sat down and the waitress came up:  she was an old Chinese lady, in traditional garb
looking like something out of a movie.  She took out a pad and paper and said in a perfect Dublin
accent:  "And what will you be havin' for breakfast, then?"

It just goes to show:  you can't judge a book by its cover.
 
2013-06-14 12:03:51 PM
I'd guess it's the same reason there's still tons of CCCP icons all around Russia: it's more expensive to take them down then it's worth.
 
2013-06-14 12:14:00 PM

saintstryfe: I'd guess it's the same reason there's still tons of CCCP icons all around Russia: it's more expensive to take them down then than it's worth.


/Pet peeve
 
2013-06-14 12:27:53 PM

saintstryfe: I'd guess it's the same reason there's still tons of CCCP icons all around Russia: it's more expensive to take them down then it's worth.


Unfortunately not. The two communities in working class areas have been so conditioned by decades of fear and mistrust - some of it entirely justified - that the idea of taking down the walls causes panic attacks, hijacked buses and firebombs. The walls are up because each side thinks it needs protection from the other.

Meanwhile the rest of Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and the UK mainland look on, aghast.
 
2013-06-14 05:06:34 PM

Crewmannumber6: liam76: mbillips: The IRA are full of crap. Northern Ireland is majority Protestant, and the majority WANT to remain part of the U.K. There was a lot of anti-Catholic oppression in Northern Ireland that led to the Troubles, but there's no legitimacy to the argument that Northern Ireland is "occupied." When the land was confiscated from Catholics, it was taken from hereditary nobles who inherited it from people who conquered it with the sword. You can't biatch about other nobility kicking your nobility's ass; that's what nobles do

I agree with the sentiment that it was long enough ago, however the fighing for Ireland when England was taking it over wasn't noble vs noble.

Plantation. English ascendancy displacing entire regions of natives in a land grab.


True, that was the English crown taking it away from Hiberno-Norman dynasties and Gaelic clans. Still mostly nobles who owned the land, and their tenant dependants.
 
2013-06-14 07:41:13 PM
Call me naive, but I've always been amazed by the inability of people of different cultures to live by each other. Part of me never understands the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for that reason. Why not just administer two states on the same territory? Just because it's never been done (and I'm not even sure of that) doesn't mean it can't ever be done. Same with Ireland. I somehow don't see these problems in the US (or am I just not looking?) I live in a neighborhood that is about evenly divided between blacks and Jews. I am neither. And somehow not one of my neighbors has ever attempted to kill me or any other neighbor. Amazing, I know.
 
2013-06-15 07:45:59 AM
This is the history of Ireland in a Nutshell
until 800 ce: OOh lets have brehan law and other stuff but not write it down so much but throw a bunch of shiat in bogs so that historians and archeologists will be greatly confused about our past

800-1200: Patrick converted a lot to catholicism, Brig becomes Saint Bridget, golden age of Ireland, monks were held to a hire regard than the pope in Rome, more of a confederate stye catholicism than the centralized one that one sees in most countries today. Cuchulainn, Ireland's Beowulf, written about during this time, holds some insight into family styles, (dog boy was a foster child). Vikings invade, create Dublin and the pale, sorry folks, Brian Boru teamed up with vikings to fight vikings, so...there you go. Then William comes in. Brehan law still strong, women have more equal rights in the law concerning divorce and land laws as well.

1200-1650's: WIlliam comes over, says all y'all aren't the right kind of catholic, forces Ireland to develope a relatively centralized catholicism. Any Irish with Fitz in their last name have family that were part of the british ruling class during this time. There was also someone named strongbow or oxbow, forget which, who was the equivalent of the Sheriff of Nottingham..dearly beloved I understand:).

1650's-1900's: This is when shiat get serious. Oliver Cromwell may get mixed reactions in England, In Ireland, he is entirely detested, to put it lightly. Told the Catholics they were heathens and needed to be protestant, nasty, nasty nasty stuff happened, this is when the fifth of November stuff happened. there are killings, even a PM! explosions galore, Fenian brotherhood in NA, and retribution back and forth betwixt the UK and Ireland. On top of that, the famine in Ireland brought the Irish to America, bringing a new dynamic to America wherever they went, including cannon fodder in the civil war. But hey, Cranberries and U2 came out of it!

To put it short before 800: dancing gayly in the glen, 800-1200 you ain't Christian, golden age, and vikings. 1200 you ain't catholic and give us some land. 1650s- you ain't the right kind of Christian and Celtic hueey and the gooey kablooey
 
2013-06-15 08:18:42 AM

hoodiowithtudio: This is the history of Ireland in a Nutshell
until 800 ce: OOh lets have brehan law and other stuff but not write it down so much but throw a bunch of shiat in bogs so that historians and archeologists will be greatly confused about our past

800-1200: Patrick converted a lot to catholicism, Brig becomes Saint Bridget, golden age of Ireland, monks were held to a hire regard than the pope in Rome, more of a confederate stye catholicism than the centralized one that one sees in most countries today. Cuchulainn, Ireland's Beowulf, written about during this time, holds some insight into family styles, (dog boy was a foster child). Vikings invade, create Dublin and the pale, sorry folks, Brian Boru teamed up with vikings to fight vikings, so...there you go. Then William comes in. Brehan law still strong, women have more equal rights in the law concerning divorce and land laws as well.

1200-1650's: WIlliam comes over, says all y'all aren't the right kind of catholic, forces Ireland to develope a relatively centralized catholicism. Any Irish with Fitz in their last name have family that were part of the british ruling class during this time. There was also someone named strongbow or oxbow, forget which, who was the equivalent of the Sheriff of Nottingham..dearly beloved I understand:).

1650's-1900's: This is when shiat get serious. Oliver Cromwell may get mixed reactions in England, In Ireland, he is entirely detested, to put it lightly. Told the Catholics they were heathens and needed to be protestant, nasty, nasty nasty stuff happened, this is when the fifth of November stuff happened. there are killings, even a PM! explosions galore, Fenian brotherhood in NA, and retribution back and forth betwixt the UK and Ireland. On top of that, the famine in Ireland brought the Irish to America, bringing a new dynamic to America wherever they went, including cannon fodder in the civil war. But hey, Cranberries and U2 came out of it!

To put it short before 800: dancing gayly in the glen, 800-1200 you ain't Christian, golden age, and vikings. 1200 you ain't catholic and give us some land. 1650s- you ain't the right kind of Christian and Celtic hueey and the gooey kablooey


Pretty much except Patrick was more like 400AD, Strongbow was mostly only loved by the protestants who considered themselves English, even though he was invited by a lesser king trying to over throw the high king and the Fitz's came from Wales with him. I may be nit picking
 
2013-06-15 09:43:45 AM
no, you're not, accuracy is actually very important in history, the strongbow thing was inferred by the beloved part and the smiley face, but thank you for the 400 CE part, so ill change that second batch from 400-1200.
 
2013-06-15 10:20:38 AM
If any one is really interested in Irish history there are 2 books by Eduard Rutherfurd - The Princes Of Ireland and The Rebels Of Ireland. Historical fiction at it's best. You don't even realize you're learning stuff.
 
2013-06-15 11:46:24 AM

Crewmannumber6: If any one is really interested in Irish history there are 2 books by Eduard Rutherfurd - The Princes Of Ireland and The Rebels Of Ireland. Historical fiction at it's best. You don't even realize you're learning stuff.


I like Irish history, but I really didn't dig those books. Loved his London and Russia ones though.
 
2013-06-15 12:40:35 PM

liam76: Crewmannumber6: If any one is really interested in Irish history there are 2 books by Eduard Rutherfurd - The Princes Of Ireland and The Rebels Of Ireland. Historical fiction at it's best. You don't even realize you're learning stuff.

I like Irish history, but I really didn't dig those books. Loved his London and Russia ones though.


Russia was a hard read compared to the 2 Irish novels. I had a hard time finishing it.
 
2013-06-15 02:06:21 PM

Crewmannumber6: liam76: Crewmannumber6: If any one is really interested in Irish history there are 2 books by Eduard Rutherfurd - The Princes Of Ireland and The Rebels Of Ireland. Historical fiction at it's best. You don't even realize you're learning stuff.

I like Irish history, but I really didn't dig those books. Loved his London and Russia ones though.

Russia was a hard read compared to the 2 Irish novels. I had a hard time finishing it.


Interesting, I thought the exact opposite. I may give book 2 another crack.
 
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