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(Daily Mail)   Menopause? Yep it's a man's fault   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 78
    More: Unlikely, middle age  
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7307 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 6:02 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 07:12:16 AM
One thing FTA that really annoyed me:

Dr Maxwell Burton-Chellew, an evolutionary biologist at Oxford University, dismissed Professor Singh's theory, calling it 'plain wrong'.

 Dear Daily Mail: This is not a theory.  This is a conjecture.  There's a huge farking difference.
 
2013-06-14 07:15:25 AM

dittybopper: and at that age, their expected number of lives left is about 20


What, did they gather 20 1-UP mushrooms, or something??
 
2013-06-14 07:20:06 AM

phalamir: There is no "meant to".  Evolution doesn't work like that.  There is no conscious master plan with the endpoint predetermined.  Chance coupled with environmental pressure leads to changes - as long as they lead to better survival, that makes them good.  Humans essentially pop out early fetuses compared to other animals, and especially other primates.  We have to, or we would all have 5-foot wide pelvises to allow our noggins to fit down the vagina (go measure up a 1st grader; now do the engineering to get that out of a woman, paying special attention to the pelvis).  Absurdly helpless young - who develop at an even more absurd rate (which is all actually good, because our brains get to develop like no other as a result) - means a very high investment for the mother.  If a few women started living even a few years longer without the chance of themselves bearing (and thus having to be doing all the investment themselves), their daughters are going to have a better chance of getting a child to farking age, because the investment is being shared.  That would make the chance of that trait being passed skyrocket.  On the other hand, men only farking girls too  young to buy beer isn't going to do anything to women's fertility.  There is no advantage for a woman to stop pumping out eggs at 50 versus keeping going, so there would be no selection bias.  Actually, stopping at 50 would be dumb under this guy's scenario.  Women should be hitting menopause at 25 or so, since they wouldn't breed according to him.  50-odd says that the age of the women hitting menopause is important, not the age of the women getting hit on in kindergarten.


I think you're missing the point of what I'm trying to say.  Our current evolutionary traits, outside of our brain development, is largely out of date.  Hair to keep warm is obsolete when we have hats.  The ability to store body fat for leaner times is actually a hindrance in a modern age where we rarely walk let alone run.  We are designed differently than we live these days, because our technical progress has outpaced our evolution to that point.  

Now, I know that infant mortality rates drag down the average age, and a good chance that quite a few people made it to 50.  But that's obviously not many, as the population of humans world wide at many points dropped to near extinction levels.  And besides, the woman that made it to 50 was a grand ol' marm, and wasn't likely to live much past that.  That was a good, long life.  Now, we have men and women living an average to 65-75.  Longer is more common than it has ever been, thanks to various medicines to control everything from heart rates to water retention.  Add to the fact that elders no longer have to rely on the youngin's ability to hunt to sustain themselves, and we as a whole modern society are basically giving our current evolutionary traits a big middle finger.  

However, those evolutionary traits are still there.  A man still wants to bang younger and seemingly fertile women.  It's hard wired as a species survival trait, even if we don't need it anymore.  We just have to recognize it and, you know, not go all caveman on every hot young thing we see.
 
2013-06-14 07:21:45 AM

RobSeace: dittybopper: and at that age, their expected number of lives left is about 20

What, did they gather 20 1-UP mushrooms, or something??


static.giantbomb.com 

Idiots could have gotten 99 if they had been smart.
 
2013-06-14 07:25:08 AM
There is a fatal flaw in the argument. It is only the 20th century that women, on average, lived past menopause. In that way, we were closer to other primates in the past. Menopause in large numbers of the population has been a fairly recent problem.
 
2013-06-14 07:28:07 AM
My junk stopped working!  I hate you!  Next.
 
2013-06-14 07:33:01 AM

fusillade762: I'M NOT CRANKY YOU'RE CRANKY!!!


Just saw this, but, um, "this."

My mom is going through it right now, and I swear that woman is in a state of denial.  Going off the handle left and right, and the hot/cold flashes always seem to catch her by surprise and are a complete mystery to her.

Mom:  "Man, I am hot!  Is anyone else feeling warm?  Did it just get warm in here?"

Me: "No, Mom, it's not.  We're fine."

five minutes later

Mom: "Geez, now it's freaking cold.  Why is it so cold all of the sudden?!  What is going on in here?!"

Me: "You know perfectly well what's going on, mom, and it's not the air conditioner."

Mom: "Don't you dare blame menopause.  I know what that feels like, and this isn't it."

Me: "Sure it's not, Mom."
 
2013-06-14 07:44:31 AM
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me.   The very name reeks of patriarchy.

MENopause?  So typical.

How about Womynopause!
 
2013-06-14 07:45:55 AM

meanmutton: One thing FTA that really annoyed me:

Dr Maxwell Burton-Chellew, an evolutionary biologist at Oxford University, dismissed Professor Singh's theory, calling it 'plain wrong'.

 Dear Daily Mail: This is not a theory.  This is a conjecture.  There's a huge farking difference.


Anything that isn't from the Good Book is just theory. Which is just conjecture.
 
2013-06-14 07:55:08 AM

RobSeace: dittybopper: and at that age, their expected number of lives left is about 20

What, did they gather 20 1-UP mushrooms, or something??


sed 's/lives/years'
 
2013-06-14 08:02:39 AM
From TFA: "And only two other species - pilot and killer whales - experience a similar type of menopause."


So in species that have ACTUAL whales they still prefer the younger ones?

Also: "However the controversial theory has already attracted criticism from other specialists..."

No farking way - could it be because it's NOT A THEORY but just a SWAG?  I have my own theory - women who developed menopause tended to live longer, didn't die in childbirth as older people, thus giving their children (and their children's children) more TLC and increasing their survival rates.

Survival of the fittest baby....
 
2013-06-14 08:22:16 AM

abhorrent1: You know, women. You want to be treated equally? How about you start by taking some farking responsibility and quit blaming men for all your woes. That would be a good start. Then we can talk about all the perks you get just for having tits.


I have been assured that it is impossible for women to be bigoted against men. Any example of that is actually an example of a man being misogynistic.
 
2013-06-14 08:24:24 AM

quickdraw: think women over 50 aren't having sex?


One hopes. Sex is for the young.

Old people having sex is like watching an old toothless cat trying to hunt.
 
2013-06-14 08:25:35 AM

dittybopper: RobSeace: dittybopper: and at that age, their expected number of lives left is about 20

What, did they gather 20 1-UP mushrooms, or something??

sed 's/lives/years'


sed: -e expression #1, char 13: unterminated `s' command
 
2013-06-14 08:29:11 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Old people having sex is like watching an old toothless cat trying to hunt.


Some sexy things could potentially be better without teeth.

Funny: A man is getting "serviced" by an 80-year old woman without teeth.  Across town, another man is walking a high wire between two buildings without a net.

Both men are thinking the same thing.  What is it?

("don't look down....don't look down...)
 
2013-06-14 08:38:20 AM
 
2013-06-14 08:43:07 AM

Befuddled: FTA: Professor Rama Singh, from McMaster University in Canada, thinks the menopause was simply evolution's way of recognising that older women no longer need the ability to have children as men stop wanting to mate with them.

Someone doesn't understand evolution. How would men wanting to breed with young women help the older woman spread her genes?

Menopause is probably helpful in that the grandmother won't be having kids and can instead help raise her grandkids.


That's what I'm thinking. I mean... how does this even work, evolution-wise? Back when evolutionary pressures still actually existed (which was quite a while ago), most people - women included - didn't live to see their 40th birthday.
 
2013-06-14 08:53:26 AM
"a" man? EVERY man. Personally. We voted on it and everything.
 
2013-06-14 09:08:56 AM
That makes me happy to know that just by existing and without any effort of my own  I have the power to just make you're life miserable!!!
 
2013-06-14 11:37:32 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: quickdraw: think women over 50 aren't having sex?

One hopes. Sex is for the young.

Old people having sex is like watching an old toothless cat trying to hunt.


A self-described "life extension nutter" who hopes to stop having sex before 50?  Now I'm just sad for future you.
 
2013-06-14 12:54:51 PM
Nah, man, don't argue. Just nod and say you're sorry. Don't farking argue with a menopausal woman when she's off her rocker. Just nod, look contrite, and pray to whatever gods might be listening that you survive it. This is no time to be picky, theologically speaking, take whatever help you can get.
 
2013-06-14 01:18:03 PM
No farking way - could it be because it's NOT A THEORY but just a SWAG?  I have my own theory - women who developed menopause tended to live longer, didn't die in childbirth as older people, thus giving their children (and their children's children) more TLC and increasing their survival rates.

This
Having babies gets more dangerous as a woman ages. Thus it makes sense that men seek out younger women as they are more likely to live through the experience and thus his spawn are too. (Mother dead at child birth = dead kid shortly after.) A woman who becomes sterile at middle age is around to help daughters raise the kid so the kid is more likely to survive. A middle aged woman who does not become sterile is much more likely to die during pregnancy or child birth (because the sex will not stop - the men might have to be drunk, but she'd still get some), and not be around to help.
 
2013-06-14 03:30:03 PM

Lady J: Gawd when that day comes I am necking the HRT like they're smarties


Have fun with the breast cancer. I'm starting into menopause (at least I hope to farking christ I am - 40 years of backbreaking, near crippling periods is quite enough) now and I'm not going to take anything for it other than continuing to drink soy milk.

My MIL had a hysterectomy because of endometriosis and was on HRT for years and got breast cancer. She thankfully survived it, but died of a chest (not lung) tumor last year. The doctors said the breast cancer was from the HRT and took her off them when she was diagnosed.
 
2013-06-14 03:36:27 PM

meanmutton: Quantum Apostrophe: quickdraw: think women over 50 aren't having sex?

One hopes. Sex is for the young.

Old people having sex is like watching an old toothless cat trying to hunt.

A self-described "life extension nutter" who hopes to stop having sex before 50?  Now I'm just sad for future you.


Yes, because anti-aging is not part of life extension. Do you think I want to extend the decrepit boring part of life? :)
 
2013-06-14 05:23:34 PM
Why is it always the Indian doctors making these crazy theories?
I recognize that as an immigrant group they're often in highly-skilled fields so their numbers are disproportionate, but sometimes it seems like they're prone to being "out there".
 
2013-06-14 06:32:50 PM
It`s simple. Men prefer women who talk about other things than themselves or jobs that need doing, sometimes want sex and are not dried up like the sahara, are relatively stable, as stable as you can hope for anyway who don`t need a bra to have nipples near their chests and who are up for a laugh.

most women stop doing those things so the women that still are doing those things look mighty good.

It`s that simple. Age has nothing to do with it.
 
2013-06-14 06:48:46 PM

pkellmey: There is a fatal flaw in the argument. It is only the 20th century that women, on average, lived past menopause. In that way, we were closer to other primates in the past. Menopause in large numbers of the population has been a fairly recent problem.


That's crazy talk.  Wrong crazy talk.
 
2013-06-15 12:58:23 AM
Everything is.

Film at ... always.
 
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