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(The Trentonian)   Trenton cop when asked for badge number: "That's my (expletive) badge number right there" after allegedly punching Walmart employee walking home. (Listen to audio)   (trentonian.com) divider line 119
    More: Dumbass, TRENTON, Wal-Mart, badges, official misconduct  
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7326 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2013 at 4:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 12:06:26 AM
fark you, buddy.

fark you.

/It's New Jersey, Jake.
 
2013-06-14 12:08:26 AM
Link sucks.

But I am on my iPhone presently.
 
2013-06-14 01:01:48 AM

AirForceVet: Link sucks.

But I am on my iPhone presently.


Yeah, gratuitously breaking a story that short into 5 pages is wee todd ed.
 
2013-06-14 01:21:01 AM
You got a problem with that?
 
2013-06-14 01:42:05 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-14 01:48:52 AM
"Police Director Ralph Rivera Jr. returned Trentonian calls on the matter stating;

"while the incident isn't quite severe enough to warrant a paid vacation for the officer in question, we are punishing the officer by making him pick up the donuts every day next week ." "
 
2013-06-14 03:34:06 AM

fusillade762: AirForceVet: Link sucks.

But I am on my iPhone presently.

Yeah, gratuitously breaking a story that short into 5 pages is wee todd ed.


Someone reads something like this and has to submit it in before they wets themselves and forget to go back to page one before copying the URL.

This is some buullllllshiat.  Damn, it's nice being white.  I wonder if they'll come after him now for recording the conversation without the officers' knowledge.

/too lazy to look up NJ law on the subject
//I'm sure someone with a GED in law will show up eventually anyway
///tres barras
 
2013-06-14 04:47:04 AM
farking Hessians. Hired hands. Pieces of shiat.
 
2013-06-14 04:48:14 AM

If you disallow flash on the page they rightfully show the whole article:


www.trentonian.com
TRENTON - A young man returning home from work Saturday at midnight was allegedly assaulted by Trenton police.

Tyrell Green caught audio of the alleged incident on his cell phone because he was recording a conversation with a friend when cops could be heard asking him to put his hands up.

"I didn't do anything," the 20-year-old black male pleads to police in the recording, repeatedly asking officers "what did I do?"

When Green told one of the cops "I want your badge number too," a commotion could be heard, followed by an "ow" from Green.

"That's my (expletive) badge number right there," a cop says. "Shut the (expletive) up."

Green could then be heard groaning shortly thereafter.

The city resident provided a photo to The Trentonian of the facial injuries from the punch he says he received in the alleged incident.

Green also went to St. Francis Medical Center early Sunday morning seeking treatment for his injuries after he was released from police custody.

Hospital records, provided by Green, show that he sustained a bruise from the alleged beating.

"I can't even eat a full sandwich," Green said Thursday. "As soon as I open my mouth, it's in pain."

Green, who works for Walmart in Hamilton, said he had just gotten off the bus and was walking the rest of the way home on Chambers Street near Ashmore Avenue, when he was stopped by Trenton police because they were responding to a report of a man with a gun.

The only thing police found on the shipping and receiving employee was a safety knife that he is required to carry at work to open boxes, Green said.

Walmart did not immediately respond to comment about its policy regarding safety knives.

Green said it was in his pocket - like it always is - when he's not on the clock at the store.

Cops can be heard asking him if he pulled the safety knife on somebody or was playing with it.

Green responds "no" to both questions.

"Sir, I do not have a gun," Green says. "I don't even own a gun."

Green said he was in police custody for two hours and was given the option to stay in jail until Monday or receive a ticket for disorderly conduct.

The Mercer High School graduate said he opted to take the ticket signed by Trenton police officer Luis E. Cosme.

Green claims he knew he did nothing wrong because a police officer told him if he showed up to the court, the charges would be dropped.

The offense summary obtained by The Trentonian states, "Listed party did yell and curse at officers while conducting an investigation of a man with a gun."

In the audio recording, police can be heard telling Green to "shut up" numerous times.

"Shut the (expletive) up and let us do our job. You understand me?" the cop who allegedly struck Green says afterwards. "That's my (expletive) badge number right in your (expletive) mouth."

Police Director Ralph Rivera Jr. did not return a call for comment.

This is the third reported incident of excessive force used by Trenton police during the last year and a half.

In February 2012, video from La Guira Bar captured city police officers allegedly using excessive force in two arrests.

There are pending civil lawsuits against the city and the Trenton Police Department for the actions of the officers that night. Officer Nidia Colon is also facing criminal official misconduct charges for her role in one arrest.

In December 2012, Steven Jennette ended up in a coma for two days after being taken into custody by Trenton police.

Jennette remembers being punched and sprayed with pepper spray by city police before waking up at Capital Health Regional Medical Center in Trenton.

An internal affairs investigation was initiated after that incident, but the outcome remains unknown.

 
2013-06-14 04:49:53 AM
Dime.

Store.

Thugs.

.
 
mhd
2013-06-14 04:56:47 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-14 04:57:22 AM
"I can't even eat a full sandwich," Green said Thursday. "As soon as I open my mouth, it's in pain."

no you can't have a sammich. not yours

still not cool/funny he got punched though.
 
2013-06-14 04:59:06 AM
Walking While Black. Yep, that's a beatin'.
 
2013-06-14 04:59:46 AM
I farking HATE cops...yes..ALL of them.

DIE biatches.
 
2013-06-14 05:07:00 AM
Once a schoolyard bully, always a schoolyard bully. Pathetic douchebags.
 
2013-06-14 05:13:14 AM
Yeah this is about as surprising as Cook County dishing out 45 million bucks in police brutality money instead of actually dealing with how poorly CPD is run.

/not at all
 
2013-06-14 05:15:02 AM
FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?
 
2013-06-14 05:23:30 AM
Trenton's a manure hole, has been for over thirty years and the cops there are part of the reason. They were worthless when I lived in Mercer County until the late 90s and I see they still are. If they're not out profiling, they're on the take or screwing around while collecting their checks.
 
2013-06-14 05:34:39 AM
I'm sure the cop will be properly punished with two weeks of paid time off to think about what he did wrong.
 
2013-06-14 05:38:37 AM

orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?


Why is not relevant.  It's possible he used that excuse to cover up that he purposely recorded the cops since he knew what assholes they are.  But since a cop performing his duties has no expectation of privacy, that white lie was unnecessary, though probably prudent given their history of thuggish behavior.
 
2013-06-14 05:43:46 AM
To Protect
(Themselves)

 And Serve
(an Unwarranted Vicious Beating)
 
2013-06-14 05:44:45 AM

OgreMagi: orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?

Why is not relevant.  It's possible he used that excuse to cover up that he purposely recorded the cops since he knew what assholes they are.  But since a cop performing his duties has no expectation of privacy, that white lie was unnecessary, though probably prudent given their history of thuggish behavior.


Apologists like yourself are the reason we can have nice things.

Thanks.
 
2013-06-14 05:54:31 AM

nmemkha: OgreMagi: orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?

Why is not relevant.  It's possible he used that excuse to cover up that he purposely recorded the cops since he knew what assholes they are.  But since a cop performing his duties has no expectation of privacy, that white lie was unnecessary, though probably prudent given their history of thuggish behavior.

Apologists like yourself are the reason we can have nice things.

Thanks.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-14 06:00:06 AM
New Jersey.

Feh!
 
2013-06-14 06:00:58 AM

orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?


Kids who like to rhyme and practice their beats and lyrics record themselves constantly.

/at least the teens I see do
//but surely this makes him guilty and the cop is a hero
 
2013-06-14 06:01:43 AM
"That's my (expletive) badge number right in your (expletive) mouth."

You said (expletive) twice.
 
2013-06-14 06:02:05 AM

nmemkha: OgreMagi: orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?

Why is not relevant.  It's possible he used that excuse to cover up that he purposely recorded the cops since he knew what assholes they are.  But since a cop performing his duties has no expectation of privacy, that white lie was unnecessary, though probably prudent given their history of thuggish behavior.

Apologists like yourself are the reason we can have nice things.

Thanks.


At first I misread your post and was thinking, "fark you asshole!"  Then I read it again and realized you weren't being a jerk.  :)

Yeah, the tilted doggy head applied to me.
 
2013-06-14 06:08:34 AM
I know I shouldn't be giving the cops any leeway but that wound looks like a popped pimple not a sucker punch.
 
2013-06-14 06:11:36 AM
Police work hard to make us safe.

I support all police, like I support my government collecting information on everyone.

They deserve their power!
 
2013-06-14 06:15:50 AM

OgreMagi: orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?

Why is not relevant.


Indeed. I'm just going off at a tangent, wondering who records conversations with friends, and why.
 
2013-06-14 06:34:12 AM

redmid17: Yeah this is about as surprising as Cook County dishing out 45 million bucks in police brutality money instead of actually dealing with how poorly CPD is run.

/not at all


Cook County doesn't pay the tab for CPD lawsuits. The city paid $45 million on police misconduct suits from 2009-2011, mostly filed in U.S. District Court, not in a county court. Sadly, less than 1% of the Chicago Police force is responsible for the incidents that led to 25% of the damage payments ($11.7 mil). I'm not sure if those figures also include out-of-court settlements, which have to be approved by the full city council. Pretty disgusting one way or the other, and it is so seemingly difficult to fire a Chicago cop for misconduct.
 
2013-06-14 06:35:58 AM

orbister: OgreMagi: orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?

Why is not relevant.

Indeed. I'm just going off at a tangent, wondering who records conversations with friends, and why.


He works for the NSA?
 
2013-06-14 06:37:28 AM
Three things need to happen if the cops ever want to regain the trust of the public.

1. Stop covering for bad cops.
2. No more immunity.  You knowingly fark up on the job, you are personally responsible.
3. Cop unions stops protecting bad cops.  In fact, cops shouldn't have a farking union at all.
 
2013-06-14 06:39:20 AM
This was an isolated incident, right?
 
2013-06-14 06:41:07 AM

abhorrent1: This was an isolated incident, right?


LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROFLMAO

Yeah.  Isolated.

*snerk*
 
2013-06-14 06:52:05 AM

OgreMagi: Three things need to happen if the cops ever want to regain the trust of the public.

1. Stop covering for bad cops.
2. No more immunity.  You knowingly fark up on the job, you are personally responsible.
3. Cop unions stops protecting bad cops.  In fact, cops shouldn't have a farking union at all.


I'd be down for that if it applied to teachers as well.
 
2013-06-14 06:56:27 AM
When a cop dies you always hear, "He was a hero...". I always laugh at that part, hero my arse!
 
2013-06-14 06:57:48 AM
What I did? what I did?
/Cops
 
2013-06-14 06:58:07 AM
Just for that I'm going to avoid Trenton tomorrow.

And it's not because it's a 2000 mile drive.

I'm sure I can find plenty of people making $120,000 around here, even if they're not cops.
 
2013-06-14 07:06:04 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
"You want my badge number?  Here you go, motherfarker."
 
2013-06-14 07:08:10 AM
Who to root for? An uncharacteristically aggressive and abusive cop, or a minion of the Evil Empire? Tough call.
 
2013-06-14 07:08:26 AM

dropdfun: OgreMagi: Three things need to happen if the cops ever want to regain the trust of the public.

1. Stop covering for bad cops.
2. No more immunity.  You knowingly fark up on the job, you are personally responsible.
3. Cop unions stops protecting bad cops.  In fact, cops shouldn't have a farking union at all.

I'd be down for that if it applied to teachers as well.


You kids and your stupid "IT'S ALL THE FAULT OF UNIONS!"

Your worship of The Rulers is really pathetic.
 
2013-06-14 07:15:25 AM
"This is my BOOM fist!"

In other news....
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-14 07:20:41 AM
Good thing he didn't have any Skittles in his pocket.
 
2013-06-14 07:22:54 AM
Advice to citizens: Don't be a dick to cops, even if they've got the wrong guy.
Advice to cops: Don't be a dick to citizens, even if they're dicks to you first.

We done here?
 
2013-06-14 07:27:23 AM
Thank you LewisMarkTwo.

Wow, I seriously hope there's an investigation into this. Carrying a gun isn't illegal, and this man wasn't even doing that. The boxcutters that stores issue to employees are the cheap little slide-metal ones. And NO, wal-mart doesn't provide a place to keep them at work. They don't explicitly tell you to take them home with you, but everyone does since the management never asks to collect them, and generally doesn't want to collect/redistribute them every night.

Hope the cop gets a thorough investigation. Anyone know how the CC laws work in NJ regarding knives?
 
2013-06-14 07:32:21 AM
www.american-buddha.com

Either you all give yourselves up now, and let us beat you up a bit, though not very much of course because we are firmly opposed to needless violence...or, we blow up this entire planet! And, possibly one or two others we noticed on the way out here!
 
2013-06-14 07:36:22 AM
So is Trenton like some special punch-you-in-the-face part of New Jersey?
 
2013-06-14 07:36:52 AM
A cop is the perfect job for a bully.
 
2013-06-14 07:40:59 AM

Deep Contact: A cop is the perfect job for a bully.


Hm.  As is a criminal.

Guess it makes sense, they started as street gangs, right?

Cops are just criminals that are on "our" side.
 
2013-06-14 07:57:37 AM
You know, I'm not condoning the way the cops handled this situation (or any number of other incidents we see here on Fark), but I have a serious question. If a report of a man with a gun comes in, can we all agree that the police should look into the matter? If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter? I can't really see how they have any other option but to stop anyone that resembles, even slightly, the description given in the call reporting the man with the gun.

If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.
 
2013-06-14 08:06:42 AM
Some of these are right out of the twilight zone.
I've seen four cops beating the snot out of a homeless guy.  There's screaming and fists being thrown and kicking and batons being used and then a fifth cop walks up to a guy getting video of the beating and calmly asks him to move along, nothing to see in this "Just eatin' doughnuts, want one?" voice.

I don't think I'd ever want to be in a personal relationship with a cop.

Is that why they're called "Beat Cops"?
 
2013-06-14 08:08:46 AM
Man, I wish I had been there, and that farking pig took a swing at me. I would punch him right in his donut-hole. You ain't gonna play me like no sucka.

/No, not really. I would probably thank him, and ask for another.
 
2013-06-14 08:29:41 AM

theknuckler_33: You know, I'm not condoning the way the cops handled this situation (or any number of other incidents we see here on Fark), but I have a serious question. If a report of a man with a gun comes in, can we all agree that the police should look into the matter? If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter? I can't really see how they have any other option but to stop anyone that resembles, even slightly, the description given in the call reporting the man with the gun.

If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.


For one, it depends on what exactly the man was doing with the gun.  If he's legally exercising his 2nd amendment rights, the police should ignore the call and tell the concerned citizen to STFU.  If he's waving it around like a madman, yeah the cops better get out there.

That said, just going to the general area and questioning all the black dudes is kind of a problem.  They'd have to just keep an eye out, and make a more solid ID than "20 year old black guy" before interrogating a suspect.
Or just walking up to any nearby civilian (or any nearby civilian) and saying "hey, we got reports of a guy with a gun...you seen him?" wouldn't be unreasonable.
 
2013-06-14 08:34:52 AM

theknuckler_33: If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.


When are cops going to realize that when they stop someone who is doing something else that their presence is unwelcome? Almost every police encounter begins, from the perspective of the citizen, with 100% too many cops. It's not like people are going into the police station and walking up to the front desk and being jerks. Cops are seeking people out and forcing them to stop what they're doing and interact with them.

People are going to do it, but they're not going to like it.
 
2013-06-14 08:37:16 AM
So is this kid going to get charged with illegal wiretapping and recording or a police officer? Maybe he should also get charged with assault and battery of an Officer's fist with his face?
 
2013-06-14 08:37:31 AM
theknuckler_33:
If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.

If you listen to the audio, they engaged the hostile situation first, and he responded completely calmly at first, then he was met with alleged violence. That is when he became belligerent. And unless he was reaching for his safety knife like it was a gun (Hard to prove with just audio, and seeing as they don'tacknowledge it until very late in the clip, he most likely didn't), you do not respond to a calm manasking a calm question as if he was already holding a gun to the guy's head.

They were the only ones creating a dangerous situation.If you think someone might have a gun, the last farking thing you do is hit them and tell them to shut the fark up.

They were clearly being unprofessional in every sense of the word.
 
2013-06-14 08:38:18 AM
Pick up that can, citizen.
 
2013-06-14 08:39:04 AM
"Sir, I do not have a gun," Green says. "I don't even own a gun

...let alone many guns that would necessitate an entire rack!"
 
2013-06-14 08:39:27 AM
WWB
 
2013-06-14 08:40:49 AM
 
2013-06-14 08:42:09 AM

theknuckler_33: You know, I'm not condoning the way the cops handled this situation (or any number of other incidents we see here on Fark), but I have a serious question. If a report of a man with a gun comes in, can we all agree that the police should look into the matter? If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter? I can't really see how they have any other option but to stop anyone that resembles, even slightly, the description given in the call reporting the man with the gun.

If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.


It's completely reasonable for a young black man to presume a cop is there to harass you and make your life hell too.
 
2013-06-14 08:42:56 AM

OgreMagi: Three things need to happen if the cops ever want to regain the trust of the public.

1. Stop covering for bad cops.
2. No more immunity.  You knowingly fark up on the job, you are personally responsible.
3. Cop unions stops protecting bad cops.  In fact, cops shouldn't have a farking union at all.


Actually unions are forced to protect bad cops if they ask for protection.Otherwise if they could pick and choose you know that they are going to play favorites. Just make it so that prosectuors are encouraged to charge bad cops and that unions don't have to protect cops convicted of a crime that happened on the job and/or a felony.
 
2013-06-14 08:43:24 AM

Fissile: The mentality of Jersey cops really is no different than your average street thug.

Here are a few recent stories about NJ cops:

NJ cop involved in drug distribution.
http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2013/06/montclair_cop_tied_to_wide -r anging_drug_and_money_laundering_scheme.html#incart_river_default

NJ cop guns down unarmed man in road rage incident.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/06/hudson_pba_stands_by_accu se d_road_rage_murder_asks_public_not_to_rush_to_judgement.html#incart_mo st-comments

NJ cop attacks disabled woman and her 4 year old child.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/06/robbinsville_police_offic er _will_resign_and_receive_medical_treatment_following_his_attack_on_a_d isa.html#incart_river_default

NJ cop gets into drunken brawl at gas station.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/06/jersey_city_off-duty_cop_ ch arged_with_drunk_driving_after_he_gets_into_fight_at_gas_station.html


Isolated incidents.
How about all them times they do get it right?
Remember the Hurricane?
 
2013-06-14 08:45:44 AM
Waiting for the *cop suckers* to pile in.
 
2013-06-14 08:46:44 AM

serial_crusher: theknuckler_33: You know, I'm not condoning the way the cops handled this situation (or any number of other incidents we see here on Fark), but I have a serious question. If a report of a man with a gun comes in, can we all agree that the police should look into the matter? If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter? I can't really see how they have any other option but to stop anyone that resembles, even slightly, the description given in the call reporting the man with the gun.

If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.

For one, it depends on what exactly the man was doing with the gun.  If he's legally exercising his 2nd amendment rights, the police should ignore the call and tell the concerned citizen to STFU.  If he's waving it around like a madman, yeah the cops better get out there.

That said, just going to the general area and questioning all the black dudes is kind of a problem.  They'd have to just keep an eye out, and make a more solid ID than "20 year old black guy" before interrogating a suspect.
Or just walking up to any nearby civilian (or any nearby civilian) and saying "hey, we got reports of a guy with a gun...you seen him?" wouldn't be unreasonable.


No it certainly is not. Good point.
 
2013-06-14 08:48:30 AM

sendtodave: Deep Contact: A cop is the perfect job for a bully.

Hm.  As is a criminal.

Guess it makes sense, they started as street gangs, right?

Cops are just criminals that are on "our" their own side.

FTFY.

 
2013-06-14 08:48:38 AM

vudukungfu: Fissile: The mentality of Jersey cops really is no different than your average street thug.

Here are a few recent stories about NJ cops:

NJ cop involved in drug distribution.
http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2013/06/montclair_cop_tied_to_wide -r anging_drug_and_money_laundering_scheme.html#incart_river_default

NJ cop guns down unarmed man in road rage incident.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/06/hudson_pba_stands_by_accu se d_road_rage_murder_asks_public_not_to_rush_to_judgement.html#incart_mo st-comments

NJ cop attacks disabled woman and her 4 year old child.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/06/robbinsville_police_offic er _will_resign_and_receive_medical_treatment_following_his_attack_on_a_d isa.html#incart_river_default

NJ cop gets into drunken brawl at gas station.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/06/jersey_city_off-duty_cop_ ch arged_with_drunk_driving_after_he_gets_into_fight_at_gas_station.html

Isolated incidents.
How about all them times they do get it right?
Remember the Hurricane?


==================

NJ cop torches supervisor's home.
http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2013/05/edison_police_officer_ ch arged.html
 
2013-06-14 08:50:44 AM

vudukungfu: Fissile: The mentality of Jersey cops really is no different than your average street thug.

Here are a few recent stories about NJ cops:

NJ cop involved in drug distribution.
http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2013/06/montclair_cop_tied_to_wide -r anging_drug_and_money_laundering_scheme.html#incart_river_default

NJ cop guns down unarmed man in road rage incident.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/06/hudson_pba_stands_by_accu se d_road_rage_murder_asks_public_not_to_rush_to_judgement.html#incart_mo st-comments

NJ cop attacks disabled woman and her 4 year old child.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/06/robbinsville_police_offic er _will_resign_and_receive_medical_treatment_following_his_attack_on_a_d isa.html#incart_river_default

NJ cop gets into drunken brawl at gas station.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/06/jersey_city_off-duty_cop_ ch arged_with_drunk_driving_after_he_gets_into_fight_at_gas_station.html

Isolated incidents.
How about all them times they do get it right?
Remember the Hurricane?


"Aw baby.  Why you biatchin?  Remember all those times I didn't beat you?  Like on your birthday last year, even though you was mouthin' off to me?"
 
2013-06-14 08:50:58 AM

Fissile: The mentality of Jersey cops really is no different than your average street thug.

Here are a few recent stories about NJ cops:

NJ cop involved in drug distribution.
http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2013/06/montclair_cop_tied_to_wide -r anging_drug_and_money_laundering_scheme.html#incart_river_default

NJ cop guns down unarmed man in road rage incident.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/06/hudson_pba_stands_by_accu se d_road_rage_murder_asks_public_not_to_rush_to_judgement.html#incart_mo st-comments

NJ cop attacks disabled woman and her 4 year old child.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013/06/robbinsville_police_offic er _will_resign_and_receive_medical_treatment_following_his_attack_on_a_d isa.html#incart_river_default

NJ cop gets into drunken brawl at gas station.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/06/jersey_city_off-duty_cop_ ch arged_with_drunk_driving_after_he_gets_into_fight_at_gas_station.html


Wow, that One Bad Apple sure does get around...
 
2013-06-14 08:51:00 AM

mccallcl: theknuckler_33: If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.

When are cops going to realize that when they stop someone who is doing something else that their presence is unwelcome? Almost every police encounter begins, from the perspective of the citizen, with 100% too many cops. It's not like people are going into the police station and walking up to the front desk and being jerks. Cops are seeking people out and forcing them to stop what they're doing and interact with them.

People are going to do it, but they're not going to like it.


I think this is a good example of how cops can handle these situations better. The problem, I think, is that cops assume everyone is a threat. I think it comes with the job and being in a heightened state of alertness is important for that job, but it does come with the drawback of treating everyone as if they are guilty.
 
2013-06-14 08:52:19 AM

Your Neighborhood Pessimist: theknuckler_33:
If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.

If you listen to the audio, they engaged the hostile situation first, and he responded completely calmly at first, then he was met with alleged violence. That is when he became belligerent. And unless he was reaching for his safety knife like it was a gun (Hard to prove with just audio, and seeing as they don'tacknowledge it until very late in the clip, he most likely didn't), you do not respond to a calm manasking a calm question as if he was already holding a gun to the guy's head.

They were the only ones creating a dangerous situation.If you think someone might have a gun, the last farking thing you do is hit them and tell them to shut the fark up.

They were clearly being unprofessional in every sense of the word.


It sounded heated from the get go to me.
 
2013-06-14 08:53:04 AM

thetubameister: theknuckler_33: You know, I'm not condoning the way the cops handled this situation (or any number of other incidents we see here on Fark), but I have a serious question. If a report of a man with a gun comes in, can we all agree that the police should look into the matter? If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter? I can't really see how they have any other option but to stop anyone that resembles, even slightly, the description given in the call reporting the man with the gun.

If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.

It's completely reasonable for a young black man to presume a cop is there to harass you and make your life hell too.


Sadly, this is true.
 
2013-06-14 08:54:15 AM
i0.wp.com
 
2013-06-14 09:01:04 AM

serial_crusher: any nearby civilian (or any nearby civilian)


d'oh.  I was editing back and forth between "the black guy (or any nearby civilian)" and "any nearby civilian (i.e. the black guy)" and evidently this is what I ultimately came up with.  Oh well.
 
2013-06-14 09:03:18 AM
Thank god it was trenton and not new york or the kid would be facing felony charges of annoying a cop (bill in the NY legislature)
 
2013-06-14 09:07:04 AM

Nofun: Thank you LewisMarkTwo.

Wow, I seriously hope there's an investigation into this. Carrying a gun isn't illegal, and this man wasn't even doing that. The boxcutters that stores issue to employees are the cheap little slide-metal ones. And NO, wal-mart doesn't provide a place to keep them at work. They don't explicitly tell you to take them home with you, but everyone does since the management never asks to collect them, and generally doesn't want to collect/redistribute them every night.

Hope the cop gets a thorough investigation. Anyone know how the CC laws work in NJ regarding knives?


Welcome to New Jersey:
You can't carry a gun
You shouldnt own a gun
dont even think about guns
or look at a picture of a gun
except for the cops, they can be armed to the teeth on and off duty.
If you ain't butterin' your bread, you can't have a knife either.
 
2013-06-14 09:15:00 AM
Cops are all violent thugs. Who'da thunk it?
 
2013-06-14 09:28:05 AM

mccallcl: When are cops going to realize that when they stop someone who is doing something else that their presence is unwelcome? Almost every police encounter begins, from the perspective of the citizen, with 100% too many cops.


Exactly. I also resent the fact that anytime I'm pulled over by a cop, it's the cop's expectation that I'm supposed to go into Step-N-Fetchit mode:  "Yes, sir. No, sir. I'm sorry, sir." while he gets to act like a hardboiled, world-weary cop interrogating a career criminal who's clearly lying his ass off and probably has a body in the trunk.
 
2013-06-14 09:33:26 AM

libbymcstrawmanobungo: Nofun: Thank you LewisMarkTwo.

Wow, I seriously hope there's an investigation into this. Carrying a gun isn't illegal, and this man wasn't even doing that. The boxcutters that stores issue to employees are the cheap little slide-metal ones. And NO, wal-mart doesn't provide a place to keep them at work. They don't explicitly tell you to take them home with you, but everyone does since the management never asks to collect them, and generally doesn't want to collect/redistribute them every night.

Hope the cop gets a thorough investigation. Anyone know how the CC laws work in NJ regarding knives?

Welcome to New Jersey:
You can't carry a gun
You shouldnt own a gun
dont even think about guns
or look at a picture of a gun
except for the cops, they can be armed to the teeth on and off duty.
If you ain't butterin' your bread, you can't have a knife either.


You're right, this would have gone much better if the kid had a gun on him.
 
2013-06-14 10:12:48 AM

theknuckler_33: The problem, I think, is that cops assume everyone is a threat.


Ha ha, are you seriously having that hard of a time identifying with the experience of being able to treat everyone you interact with like a personal slave? The guy working at 7-11 overnight is in more danger than a cop working the same shift in the same neighborhood. The guy at the 7-11 greets me with a friendly "hello" when I walk in. Why? Because there is an expectation that he will, and consequences to him if he defies that expectation. Cops use the excuse that their behavior is a survival mechanism, and they are victims of their environment. They are, in that their environment allows for them to act the way many people would like to. It's a luxury, not a survival tactic.

Barricaded Gunman: it's the cop's expectation that I'm supposed to go into Step-N-Fetchit mode


Cops don't think you're brave for talking back, they think you're stupid. Because if they admitted that standing up to them was heroic, what would that make their role in the situation? So, it's not that you're standing up to a bully, it's that you're too stupid to know what you're in for as a consequence and how little impact it will have on the way things work. Demanding human decency and respect from everyone around you is supposed to be a virtue, but cops think it makes you an idiot. Isn't that galling?
 
2013-06-14 10:33:10 AM

MurphyMurphy: "Police Director Ralph Rivera Jr. returned Trentonian calls on the matter stating;

"while the incident isn't quite severe enough to warrant a paid vacation for the officer in question, we are

punishing promoting the officer by making him pick up the donuts every day next week ." "

/fixed for accuracy
 
2013-06-14 10:34:43 AM
I was stopped and searched by cops in my own neighborhood yesterday for walking home with a backpack, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

/seriously, now walking with a backpack is considered "suspicious"
//some days, it really sucks being a young black male
///at least I didn't get King'd or Diallo'd
 
2013-06-14 10:42:51 AM

ADubs86: I was stopped and searched by cops in my own neighborhood yesterday for walking home with a backpack, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

/seriously, now walking with a backpack is considered "suspicious"
//some days, it really sucks being a young black male
///at least I didn't get King'd or Diallo'd


Well, to be fair, you are black.  Remember, it was young black men who were responsible for the Oklahoma bombing, both attacks on the World Trade Center, and the Unibomber.

Oh.  Wait.
 
2013-06-14 10:43:36 AM

joeshill: ADubs86: I was stopped and searched by cops in my own neighborhood yesterday for walking home with a backpack, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

/seriously, now walking with a backpack is considered "suspicious"
//some days, it really sucks being a young black male
///at least I didn't get King'd or Diallo'd

Well, to be fair, you are black.  Remember, it was young black men who were responsible for the Oklahoma bombing, both attacks on the World Trade Center, and the Unibomber.

Oh.  Wait.


Waco?
 
2013-06-14 11:19:11 AM

mccallcl: theknuckler_33: The problem, I think, is that cops assume everyone is a threat.

Ha ha, are you seriously having that hard of a time identifying with the experience of being able to treat everyone you interact with like a personal slave? The guy working at 7-11 overnight is in more danger than a cop working the same shift in the same neighborhood. The guy at the 7-11 greets me with a friendly "hello" when I walk in. Why? Because there is an expectation that he will, and consequences to him if he defies that expectation. Cops use the excuse that their behavior is a survival mechanism, and they are victims of their environment. They are, in that their environment allows for them to act the way many people would like to. It's a luxury, not a survival tactic.

Barricaded Gunman: it's the cop's expectation that I'm supposed to go into Step-N-Fetchit mode

Cops don't think you're brave for talking back, they think you're stupid. Because if they admitted that standing up to them was heroic, what would that make their role in the situation? So, it's not that you're standing up to a bully, it's that you're too stupid to know what you're in for as a consequence and how little impact it will have on the way things work. Demanding human decency and respect from everyone around you is supposed to be a virtue, but cops think it makes you an idiot. Isn't that galling?


Cops need to get over themselves.
 
2013-06-14 11:48:10 AM
i131.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-14 11:51:46 AM

vento: Cops need to get over themselves.


They're not going to do it until we do it for them. In other words, until people are willing to be inconvenienced, and occasionally hurt, for asserting themselves on a mass scale, nothing will change. Of course, I'm not here to volunteer (because I'm a pussy), but I would be willing to participate in "give a cop a sucker" day, where everybody gives out lollipops to cops.

Everybody doing the same thing at the same time might remind the authorities that we can coordinate our behavior, and we're thinking about them. It would also give the cops a chance to interact with citizens without a crime having been committed. Win/win.
 
2013-06-14 11:57:27 AM
Trenton cop when asked for badge number: "That's my (expletive) badge number right there" after allegedly punching Walmart employee walking home.

Farkers, has anyone here ever gotten a different answer to that question?
 
2013-06-14 12:05:25 PM
photos.imageevent.com
 
2013-06-14 12:06:41 PM
The audio adds a lot of credibility to the allegation made by the defendant.  He is lucky the police didn't notice him recording and delete the file.  That happens all the time.

Of course, the ACLU of New Jersey has developed a  phone app that allows you to record audio or viedo without appearing that a recording is being made.  The app also records the footage to a difficult to locate ocation on the phone, and allegedly uploads the same to the ACLU computer servers, which prevents deletion by law enforcement.

There are versions for both Android and iPhone  As a criminal defense attorney, I routinely recommend this app to my clients.    An article on the app (called Police Tape) and download links can be found here.
 
2013-06-14 12:08:12 PM
What's an expletive badge?
 
2013-06-14 12:09:58 PM

lilbjorn: Trenton cop when asked for badge number: "That's my (expletive) badge number right there" after allegedly punching Walmart employee walking home.

Farkers, has anyone here ever gotten a different answer to that question?


I've asked for their business card and gotten it before, but I was polite and not black.
 
2013-06-14 12:37:01 PM

CheekyMonkey:

Wow, that One Bad Apple sure does get around...



I'm a busy guy
 
2013-06-14 01:15:17 PM
Has anyone blamed the victim yet because he works for Wal-Mart and the lack of benefits they give their employees yet or do I have to come back later?
 
2013-06-14 01:19:43 PM
This guy's trouble is just starting.  They published his ticket, complete with all of his personal information including either his DL or SSN.  Nice.
 
2013-06-14 01:32:00 PM

dabbletech: This guy's trouble is just starting.  They published his ticket, complete with all of his personal information including either his DL or SSN.  Nice.


source?
 
2013-06-14 01:40:22 PM
This LEO is a farking img.fark.net for putting his life on the line protecting your rights. Submit, citizen.
 
2013-06-14 01:48:43 PM

orbister: OgreMagi: orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?

Why is not relevant.

Indeed. I'm just going off at a tangent, wondering who records conversations with friends, and why.


In high school (long before everyone had cell phones) my friends used to record conversations because we would come up with some really funny stuff (re: funny to teenagers).  Then play it later as a kind of game where you would poke fun at them for saying stupid shiat.
 
2013-06-14 01:50:12 PM

orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?


Spouting off great ideas while yapping? I archive a lot of my chat logs so I can go back and pull out plot bunnies.

/Writers. We're weird.
//But yeah, if you need to remember something for later, recording is a good idea.
 
2013-06-14 02:24:28 PM

PsiChick: orbister: FTFA:  he was recording a conversation with a friend

Why would one do that?

Spouting off great ideas while yapping? I archive a lot of my chat logs so I can go back and pull out plot bunnies.

/Writers. We're weird.
//But yeah, if you need to remember something for later, recording is a good idea.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39USWwIVaDo#t=259s
 
2013-06-14 02:28:28 PM

theknuckler_33: If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter?


"Excuse me sir, we've had a report of a man with a gun meeting your description. Do you have a gun? Sorry, but we are now going to pat you down to check." "He's clean" "Okay, sorry, sir. Have a nice day."

/I guess politeness is too hard for a cop
 
2013-06-14 02:46:30 PM

fredklein: theknuckler_33: If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter?

"Excuse me sir, we've had a report of a man with a gun meeting your description. Do you have a gun? Sorry, but we are now going to pat you down to check." "He's clean" "Okay, sorry, sir. Have a nice day."

/I guess politeness is too hard for a cop


"Yes.  But it is at home."
"I will not physically resist you, but if you pat me down, you are doing so without my consent."
"May I have your business card?  My attorney will ask me for it."
 
2013-06-14 05:02:25 PM

joeshill: fredklein: theknuckler_33: If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter?

"Excuse me sir, we've had a report of a man with a gun meeting your description. Do you have a gun? Sorry, but we are now going to pat you down to check." "He's clean" "Okay, sorry, sir. Have a nice day."

/I guess politeness is too hard for a cop

"Yes.  But it is at home."
"I will not physically resist you, but if you pat me down, you are doing so without my consent."
"May I have your business card?  My attorney will ask me for it."


*THWACK!!*

FTFY
 
2013-06-14 05:36:20 PM

theknuckler_33: You know, I'm not condoning the way the cops handled this situation (or any number of other incidents we see here on Fark), but I have a serious question. If a report of a man with a gun comes in, can we all agree that the police should look into the matter? If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter? I can't really see how they have any other option but to stop anyone that resembles, even slightly, the description given in the call reporting the man with the gun.

If they do that, stop someone that resembles the description, and the first reaction of that person is to be belligerent, it is not difficult to see that the cops might be suspicious that that person might actually be the 'man with a gun' and therefore possibly dangerous.


You know it's perfectly legal to open-carry a gun in public, right?  It's just illegal in certain places (schools, for example).
 
2013-06-14 05:57:25 PM

Nofun: You know it's perfectly legal to open-carry a gun in public, right?  It's just illegal in certain places (schools, for example).


Uh, you need to not give people advice that will get them arrested on a felony gun crime.
 
2013-06-14 07:30:19 PM

joeshill: fredklein: theknuckler_33: If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter?

"Excuse me sir, we've had a report of a man with a gun meeting your description. Do you have a gun? Sorry, but we are now going to pat you down to check." "He's clean" "Okay, sorry, sir. Have a nice day."

/I guess politeness is too hard for a cop

"Yes.  But it is at home."
"I will not physically resist you, but if you pat me down, you are doing so without my consent."
"May I have your business card?  My attorney will ask me for it."


"Here's my card. Sorry you feel that way, sir. But, during an administrative stop [or whatever the term is] , we have the legal right to frisk you to determine if you have a weapon. For our safety, you understand. I'm sure your lawyer will confirm this. Again, have a nice day."
 
2013-06-14 07:34:50 PM

fredklein: joeshill: fredklein: theknuckler_33: If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter?

"Excuse me sir, we've had a report of a man with a gun meeting your description. Do you have a gun? Sorry, but we are now going to pat you down to check." "He's clean" "Okay, sorry, sir. Have a nice day."

/I guess politeness is too hard for a cop

"Yes.  But it is at home."
"I will not physically resist you, but if you pat me down, you are doing so without my consent."
"May I have your business card?  My attorney will ask me for it."

"Here's my card. Sorry you feel that way, sir. But, during an administrative stop [or whatever the term is] , we have the legal right to frisk you to determine if you have a weapon. For our safety, you understand. I'm sure your lawyer will confirm this. Again, have a nice day."


Not true.  The police just LOVE to misrepresent what the Terry ruling means.  It wasn't an expansion of police powers allowing them to frisk and search at any time.  The court was very farking clear that their had to be an immediate threat for that to be allowed.  And "I don't like your looks" does not qualify as an immediate threat.

Here's an immediate threat:  "there was a drive by shooting a few blocks from here and your vehicle matches the description."
 
2013-06-14 07:36:50 PM

hardinparamedic: Nofun: You know it's perfectly legal to open-carry a gun in public, right?  It's just illegal in certain places (schools, for example).

Uh, you need to not give people advice that will get them arrested on a felony gun crime.


Not familiar with the Constitution of the United States? Particularly the part of the Second Amendment where it says "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"?? As I read that, it IS perfectly legal to carry ("bear") a gun (a type of "arms"). And any law that limits that Right would "infringe" upon it. Which "shall not" be done.

(And don't even try arguing that that only applies to militias- The amendment clearly says "the right of the people", not "the right of the militia", so it applies to "the people".)
 
2013-06-14 07:37:43 PM

OgreMagi: fredklein: joeshill: fredklein: theknuckler_33: If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter?

"Excuse me sir, we've had a report of a man with a gun meeting your description. Do you have a gun? Sorry, but we are now going to pat you down to check." "He's clean" "Okay, sorry, sir. Have a nice day."

/I guess politeness is too hard for a cop

"Yes.  But it is at home."
"I will not physically resist you, but if you pat me down, you are doing so without my consent."
"May I have your business card?  My attorney will ask me for it."

"Here's my card. Sorry you feel that way, sir. But, during an administrative stop [or whatever the term is] , we have the legal right to frisk you to determine if you have a weapon. For our safety, you understand. I'm sure your lawyer will confirm this. Again, have a nice day."

Not true.  The police just LOVE to misrepresent what the Terry ruling means.  It wasn't an expansion of police powers allowing them to frisk and search at any time.  The court was very farking clear that their had to be an immediate threat for that to be allowed.  And "I don't like your looks" does not qualify as an immediate threat.

Here's an immediate threat:  "there was a drive by shooting a few blocks from here and your vehicle matches the description."


But he was a blah person.  That's as immediate as a threat gets to a police officer.
 
2013-06-14 07:48:27 PM

OgreMagi: Not true. The police just LOVE to misrepresent what the Terry ruling means. It wasn't an expansion of police powers allowing them to frisk and search at any time. The court was very farking clear that their had to be an immediate threat for that to be allowed. And "I don't like your looks" does not qualify as an immediate threat.

Here's an immediate threat: "there was a drive by shooting a few blocks from here and your vehicle matches the description."


The issue was 'man with a gun'. He matched the description. What more do you want?

Oh, and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
"For their own protection, police may perform a quick surface search of the person's outer clothing for weapons if they have reasonable suspicion that the person stopped is armed. "
...
"Chief Justice Warren later made it clear that this was also the opinion of the Court:

"The sole justification of the search ... is the protection of the police officer and others nearby, and it must therefore be confined in scope to an intrusion reasonably designed to discover guns, knives, clubs, or other hidden instruments for the assault of the police officer.""
 
2013-06-14 07:55:09 PM

fredklein: OgreMagi: Not true. The police just LOVE to misrepresent what the Terry ruling means. It wasn't an expansion of police powers allowing them to frisk and search at any time. The court was very farking clear that their had to be an immediate threat for that to be allowed. And "I don't like your looks" does not qualify as an immediate threat.

Here's an immediate threat: "there was a drive by shooting a few blocks from here and your vehicle matches the description."

The issue was 'man with a gun'. He matched the description. What more do you want?

Oh, and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
"For their own protection, police may perform a quick surface search of the person's outer clothing for weapons if they have reasonable suspicion that the person stopped is armed. "
...
"Chief Justice Warren later made it clear that this was also the opinion of the Court:

"The sole justification of the search ... is the protection of the police officer and others nearby, and it must therefore be confined in scope to an intrusion reasonably designed to discover guns, knives, clubs, or other hidden instruments for the assault of the police officer.""


How much are you willing to bet there was no call about a man with a gun?  That's a standard lie used by the police on a regular basis.
 
2013-06-14 08:14:17 PM

fredklein: Not familiar with the Constitution of the United States? Particularly the part of the Second Amendment where it says "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"?? As I read that, it IS perfectly legal to carry ("bear") a gun (a type of "arms"). And any law that limits that Right would "infringe" upon it. Which "shall not" be done.

(And don't even try arguing that that only applies to militias- The amendment clearly says "the right of the people", not "the right of the militia", so it applies to "the people".)


What the hell are you on about?

The Constitution of the United States, thanks to the rulings of Chicago v. MacDonald and Heller v. DC, allows the states to set restrictions on who can carry a pistol. And each state has a different law.

Open carry of a pistol in my state, for example, is restricted to those people with a HCP. If you do NOT have a HCP, and you are openly carrying in a public place, you risk being arrested for unlawful carry. If you get in a car with that pistol, you have just committed a felony gun crime.

Mississippi and Arkansas, at the current time, are the same way.

So yes. His advice WILL get people arrested.
 
2013-06-14 08:29:02 PM

OgreMagi: fredklein: OgreMagi: Not true. The police just LOVE to misrepresent what the Terry ruling means. It wasn't an expansion of police powers allowing them to frisk and search at any time. The court was very farking clear that their had to be an immediate threat for that to be allowed. And "I don't like your looks" does not qualify as an immediate threat.

Here's an immediate threat: "there was a drive by shooting a few blocks from here and your vehicle matches the description."

The issue was 'man with a gun'. He matched the description. What more do you want?

Oh, and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
"For their own protection, police may perform a quick surface search of the person's outer clothing for weapons if they have reasonable suspicion that the person stopped is armed. "
...
"Chief Justice Warren later made it clear that this was also the opinion of the Court:

"The sole justification of the search ... is the protection of the police officer and others nearby, and it must therefore be confined in scope to an intrusion reasonably designed to discover guns, knives, clubs, or other hidden instruments for the assault of the police officer.""

How much are you willing to bet there was no call about a man with a gun?  That's a standard lie used by the police on a regular basis.


Wait, are you telling me that the police lies?
 
2013-06-14 09:11:01 PM

hardinparamedic: The Constitution of the United States, thanks to the rulings of Chicago v. MacDonald and Heller v. DC, allows the states to set restrictions on who can carry a pistol. And each state has a different law.


"If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble,... "the law is a ass-a idiot. If that's the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experience-by experience."

The Constitution is quite plain. Any rulings that allow restrictions are, Prima facie, against the Constitution ("shall not be infringed"), and thus illegal. That they have not been found so is a result of stupidity/illogic/politics/political expediency/etc.
 
2013-06-14 10:43:26 PM
Where's CruiserTwelve to defend this?
 
2013-06-15 03:17:38 AM

fredklein: joeshill: fredklein: theknuckler_33: If the call gave only a vague description of the man's appearance, what, exactly, are police to do to look into the matter?

"Excuse me sir, we've had a report of a man with a gun meeting your description. Do you have a gun? Sorry, but we are now going to pat you down to check." "He's clean" "Okay, sorry, sir. Have a nice day."

/I guess politeness is too hard for a cop

"Yes.  But it is at home."
"I will not physically resist you, but if you pat me down, you are doing so without my consent."
"May I have your business card?  My attorney will ask me for it."

"Here's my card. Sorry you feel that way, sir. But, during an administrative stop [or whatever the term is] , we have the legal right to frisk you to determine if you have a weapon. For our safety, you understand. I'm sure your lawyer will confirm this. Again, have a nice day."


And I walk away.  Knowing:

1) I have preserved whatever 4th amendment rights still exist by refusing permission for the search.
2) I have obtained cops ID should said cop linger overly long in a way that makes me uncomfortable, and I wish to lodge a complaint with his LT, the state office of professional responsibility, or the courts.
3) I have not engaged cop in argument, as there is no way to win an argument with a cop.  Even if they are manifestly wrong, the place to win is in court, not on the street.
 
2013-06-15 09:40:44 AM

fredklein: The Constitution is quite plain. Any rulings that allow restrictions are, Prima facie, against the Constitution ("shall not be infringed"), and thus illegal. That they have not been found so is a result of stupidity/illogic/politics/political expediency/etc.


Where did you get your GED in law, again?
 
2013-06-15 10:00:49 AM

fredklein: Not familiar with the Constitution of the United States? Particularly the part of the Second Amendment where it says "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"?? As I read that, it IS perfectly legal to carry ("bear") a gun (a type of "arms"). And any law that limits that Right would "infringe" upon it. Which "shall not" be done.

(And don't even try arguing that that only applies to militias- The amendment clearly says "the right of the people", not "the right of the militia", so it applies to "the people".)



I am as big a gun nut as anyone, but the 2nd applies only to the Federal Government, PERIOD. And as the  of New Jersey does not contain an explicit right to bear arms (http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/lawsconstitution/constitution.asp) you are simply out of luck.  If you wish your Right to bear Arms be protected I suggest you move to the Commonwealth of Kentucky, or other State, where it IS enumerated.  (http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/legresou/constitu/001.htm ) Article 1, Seventh.

This whole idea that the Federal Constitution wholly applies to  States is ABSURD, despite what the SCOTUS.
 
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