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(International Business Times)   Thank you for pre-ordering the Xbox One However, in order to complete your order you must first agree to waive your rights to file a class action lawsuit against Microsoft in case of massive console failures   (ibtimes.com) divider line 149
    More: PSA, Xbox, Microsoft, class-action, consumer advocacy, waive, system console, objectivity  
•       •       •

4655 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jun 2013 at 12:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-14 08:14:58 AM

jack21221: For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.


Hell probably more.  And by the time the Xbone does come out in those countries, everybody who wanted a next gen console will already have a PS4 or just gone with a gaming pc.
 
2013-06-14 08:20:00 AM
Another reason I will be getting a ps4 is that it is confirmed to be region free, just like the ps3. I live in a foreign country most of the year, and it is great to be able to buy games locally for my American ps3. Whereas if I had a 360, I would either be stuck with the games I brought, or I would have to buy a local system. I might actually buy a Russian ps4 when it launches, because fark it, it will work just fine when I come back to America
 
2013-06-14 08:22:06 AM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the money for Sony keeps on pourin' in.
 
2013-06-14 08:27:35 AM
Microsoft seems bent on killing each cash cow ...

One by one.

I think their problem is "business engineers" who understand project management but not marketing.
They're really good at figuring out how to "lock you in" but dont seem to understand their consumer.

So they have teams of people who figure out what people will want without asking them, when the reality is that you need to do some of bot

They prematurely abandoned the mouse for the touchscreen, now its the internet box instead of a portable game....
 
2013-06-14 08:27:58 AM

the_sidewinder: This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


What's this? A voice of reason and truth? BEGONE, DEMON!!!
 
2013-06-14 08:29:20 AM
All other things aside, the lack of backwards compatibility is the nail in the coffin for me. Why pay 100 more for an xbox when I'm going to lose my current games either way? A Kinect I had no interest in before and now actively do not want?
 
2013-06-14 08:36:37 AM

jack21221: Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.

That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.


Koreans will play themselves to death, for cripe's sake.  I just don't understand what Microsoft is gaining out of this "always online" deal.  If you factor in the amount of people that shuts out, how does what MS is getting out of it (whatever that is) outweigh all that lost revenue?
 
2013-06-14 08:48:05 AM

digistil: In other XBone news, you can shut down everyone's XBone via multiplayer and party chat:

"If someone on Xbox Live party chat says "Xbox Off" will all of their Xboxes turn off?" I asked, and got an answer.

[i.imgur.com image 640x1136]


Source:  http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1gb0l5/if_someone_on_xbox_liv e _party_chat_says_xbox_off/


This is totally realistic.  It is like how whenever I use Kinect voice commands now it interacts with my friend's xbox's as well when we are on voice chat.
 
2013-06-14 08:49:28 AM

jack21221: China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy).


I'm with you on the rest, but I think game consoles are still banned in China.
 
2013-06-14 08:50:20 AM

Electric_Banana: jack21221: Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.

That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.

Koreans will play themselves to death, for cripe's sake.  I just don't understand what Microsoft is gaining out of this "always online" deal.  If you factor in the amount of people that shuts out, how does what MS is getting out of it (whatever that is) outweigh all that lost revenue?


I don't give a rat's ass about console gaming, but that's the part I don't understand about this. What does Microsoft get out of an always online requirement?

/I understand the piracy argument on PC -- though Diablo 3 was the most dissapointing $60 I've spent largely because I couldn't play the damn thing if I took the wrong day off work -- but consoles? I don't see the benifit for Microsoft.
 
2013-06-14 08:56:55 AM

degenerate-afro: Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!

As mentioned in the last thread Military personnel?

Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.  Here are the launch countries:
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Brazil
• Canada
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Ireland
• Italy
• Mexico
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Russia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• United Kingdom
• United States

Spain but no Portugal?
Brazil, but not Venezuela or Peru?
No Jamaica?
No Chile?

Heck, they managed to do Austria, Germany, and Russia, but not Poland.  I'm not even talking about places like South Sudan or Laos.  When your launch doesn't take into account South Korea and Japan, you are not thinking properly.  Those are places that are notoriously hard to "come from behind" at.  Especially when your presence in that region is already tenuous.

 
2013-06-14 08:57:48 AM
Wow, these guys are just trolling us now, right?
 
2013-06-14 09:11:21 AM

Electric_Banana: jack21221: Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.

That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.

Koreans will play themselves to death, for cripe's sake.  I just don't understand what Microsoft is gaining out of this "always online" deal.  If you factor in the amount of people that shuts out, how does what MS is getting out of it (whatever that is) outweigh all that lost revenue?


They've cut out the largest growing consumer bases on the plant with China, India, and SE Asia. In the US they have cut off people in the military, expats, and anyone with shoddy internet.

My Comcast connection is usually good but will randomly slow to a crawl every once in a while. Will I still get to use it when this happen? Better question, why take a $500.gamble on it?

Businesses generally want to grow their consumer base not shrink it.
 
2013-06-14 09:15:23 AM
 
2013-06-14 09:15:27 AM
Steam and PSN have similar terms, adopted some years ago.
 
2013-06-14 09:29:38 AM

sendtodave: optikeye: It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care.

Is this a theme lately?

Most people are ignorant or apathetic, so they deserve to be screwed over by whoever can?


Well, duh.  How else do you reach the Randian utopia other than stepping all over everyone else?
 
2013-06-14 09:38:37 AM
*ahem*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network_outage#Change_to_T er ms_and_Conditions

If the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance, to the fullest extent allowed by law, any trial by jury.

From two farking years ago.
 
2013-06-14 09:40:54 AM

firefly212: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

Umm, even in the PS3 contract, right now it says that you cant file a class action.
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement
PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

frankly, the more I see of this console war, the more I love my PC.


I am part of the PSN+ and I have to admit... I have only paid them $100 for 2 years. They, Sony, have given me at this point well over $1000 in free games that I actually enjoyed playing. And most of those were some of their top titles. If they keep that going, then it would be worth while to get the PSN+. And the other thing about EAs DRM... Then dont buy an EA game. Simple as that. It is not as bad as being forced into a DRM by the actual console. And I hate to tell you, but PC is just one big DRM (assuming you are running Windows).
 
2013-06-14 09:42:36 AM

Do you know who Garblox is: jack21221: China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy).

I'm with you on the rest, but I think game consoles are still banned in China.


Since when is it up to Microsoft to enforce Chinese law?

http://www.techinasia.com/sony-won-nextgen-console-war-country-conso le s-illegal/

"Game consoles may be technically illegal in China, but there's a vast gray market for the machines, and anyone who wants a console can buy one quite easily at electronics shops in any major city. They may be gray market imports, but most of them were legitimately purchased in other territories like Hong Kong, so theydo represent actual sales for the gaming companies. "
 
2013-06-14 10:09:37 AM

OgreMagi: Keep a child around to click on "I agree".  Minors can not legally enter into a contract.  Be sure to leave the room when he/she does it.


People call me weird for having one around just in case.
 
2013-06-14 10:19:05 AM
There's some joke a out kinect voice controls and "Xbone my ass"
 
rpm
2013-06-14 10:34:00 AM

the_sidewinder: This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


It's enforceable, it's passed SCotUS, that's when everyone started added those terms.

One thing Sony gives you that MS doesn't is the chance to opt out of those terms. You had to mail it in, but I did so. Also with nice little language that it applies to all future changes.
 
rpm
2013-06-14 10:34:59 AM

degenerate-afro: Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.


Major problem? 360 is getting its ass handed to it by PS4 in Japan. It's a niche market for them.
 
rpm
2013-06-14 10:35:39 AM

rpm: degenerate-afro: Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.

Major problem? 360 is getting its ass handed to it by PS4 in Japan. It's a niche market for them.


Err PS3. I hate mornings.
 
2013-06-14 10:36:44 AM

foo monkey: I'm not buying an Xbone.  How fail is it, that MSFT didn't think people would call it an "Xbone?"


You'd think they'd have learned from mSexchange years ago. Maybe they forgot.
 
2013-06-14 10:51:11 AM
It seems to me as if Microsoft is taking the one brand item they have been successful in building a loyal following with and are trying to turn it into some sort of iTunes/Apple clone business model. I think eventually Microsoft will try to tie all devices together through the X-Box branding; their Windows phones, Surface tablets, PC operating systems, and everything else they come up with in the future like the portable X-Box music player (which probably will be a rebranded Zune) or an "X-Box TV".
 
2013-06-14 10:52:50 AM

The Voice of Doom: optikeye
It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care


Well, once the first videos of them playing games in the buff appear on the internet, they might start to care.

Shiat, I should have paid attention to the news; hadn't heard that about the cameras until this week.
Someone else already registered "xboners.com" three weeks ago.


I am looking forward to the flood of new Microsoft branded amateur pron.
 
2013-06-14 11:09:47 AM

rpm: degenerate-afro: Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.

Major problem? 360 is getting its ass handed to it by PS4 in Japan. It's a niche market for them.


They are hurting the Japanese companies that partnered with them on exclusives.  Companies like 5pb. Cave and IdeaFactory.  Why go through all of the trouble to make inroads in Japan.  Sink tons of money into a long term advertisement campaign, then kill off all of that hard work when it looked like you might be able to take advantage of those efforts in the next generation?

I guess you could make the argument that the best selling 360 exclusive, Idolm@ster, isn't really settnig the world on fire or challenging Pokemon for supremacy, but it still seems like a problem if you can't secure at least a bit of loyalty in a region that develops so many of your games.
 
2013-06-14 11:11:02 AM

tumy4me: The Voice of Doom: optikeye
It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care


Well, once the first videos of them playing games in the buff appear on the internet, they might start to care.

Shiat, I should have paid attention to the news; hadn't heard that about the cameras until this week.
Someone else already registered "xboners.com" three weeks ago.

I am looking forward to the flood of new Microsoft branded amateur pron.


Unfortunately it will be kiddie pr0n of guys teabagging each other after sniping session on COD or Halo.
 
2013-06-14 11:14:26 AM

digistil: As I just posted, I'm pretty sure that's a violation of EU law and has already been tested by a major corporation (and they failed). What's surprising to me is MS thinks Luxemburg (one of the wealthiest per-capita nations on the planet) isn't worthy to be XBoned.


Microsoft already confirmed that it won't work in Poland at launch.
 
2013-06-14 11:15:51 AM

rpm: It's enforceable, it's passed SCotUS, that's when everyone started added those terms.


The language is enforceable in contracts, but it is still up in the air whether or not EULAs are enforceable contracts

/I hope someone tries and succeeds
 
rpm
2013-06-14 11:16:24 AM

degenerate-afro: They are hurting the Japanese companies that partnered with them on exclusives.  Companies like 5pb. Cave and IdeaFactory.  Why go through all of the trouble to make inroads in Japan.  Sink tons of money into a long term advertisement campaign, then kill off all of that hard work when it looked like you might be able to take advantage of those efforts in the next generation?


MS has a record of screwing their partners (PlaysForSure anyone?), so why does it surprise you?
 
2013-06-14 11:31:40 AM

digistil: Really. A corporation the size of Sony has so many cogs, I think it's foolish to paint with such a broad brush. Simply because someone that works at Sony works in IT, doesn't label them as responsible for the gross incompetence of a few.


It is foolish. I used to work for a corporation not unlike Sony in its scope and organization, and the truth of it was that a one-man systems team in one division was more effective than the 8-person IT team in another.

Nonetheless, it's what's going to happen when he sends out resumes for his next career move and they see "System Administrator, Sony Computer Entertainment of America".

The perception's not accurate, but it exists.  I'm sure mail clerks and receptionists at Arthur Andersen and Lehman Brothers had to deal with the same crap once they were back on the job market.
 
2013-06-14 11:32:09 AM

ThatGuyGreg: *ahem*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network_outage#Change_to_T er ms_and_Conditions

If the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance, to the fullest extent allowed by law, any trial by jury.

From two farking years ago.


Got anything recent?  Cause you know... a 2000 point stock drop, a combined loss of over $10 billion, and a new CEO might change the way they do shiat.
 
2013-06-14 11:34:45 AM

degenerate-afro: digistil: As I just posted, I'm pretty sure that's a violation of EU law and has already been tested by a major corporation (and they failed). What's surprising to me is MS thinks Luxemburg (one of the wealthiest per-capita nations on the planet) isn't worthy to be XBoned.

Microsoft already confirmed that it won't work in Poland at launch.


Yeah, and CD Projekt Red weren't too happy about that, either.

'What, we're putting Witcher 3 on your system, and our home country can't play it?  WTF is wrong with you?!'
 
rpm
2013-06-14 11:38:01 AM

quiotu: Got anything recent?  Cause you know... a 2000 point stock drop, a combined loss of over $10 billion, and a new CEO might change the way they do shiat.


They still have class action waiver in the EULA dated March 2013.
 
2013-06-14 01:36:47 PM

captainktainer: the_sidewinder: captainktainer: I agree, but I'm afraid you're wrong about not being enforceable. In Prima Paint Corp v. Flood & Conklin Mfg. Co, the Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause must be respected first, and in Compucredit Corp. v. Greenwood, the Supreme Court held that the binding arbitration clauses authorized by the Federal Arbitration Act are sacrosanct.

So would that indicate that should arbitration fail, a class action could be started? How big of a hurdle would that be?

The current understanding is that because the arbitration is binding, you can't challenge the results unless there's evidence of gross negligence. It's sickening, and it's one of the many reasons neither Scalia nor Thomas should have been allowed on the Court - and why the Federal Arbitration Act should never have been approved. Allowing customers to sign away their rights in a boilerplate agreement is... beyond wrong.


Well that is why you should attend the arbitration hearings yourself and bring a firearm. Make it known that you are not afraid of going to jail, but they should be afraid of dieing. If corporations are going to act like the mob then we have to act like my grandparents did when the mob tried to get them to pay protection money and that is declare and I quote my grandfather "You can do that, but there will be blood, shiat and guts all over the farking street before this is done."
 
2013-06-14 01:41:22 PM

TeamEd: Electric_Banana: jack21221: Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.

That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.

Koreans will play themselves to death, for cripe's sake.  I just don't understand what Microsoft is gaining out of this "always online" deal.  If you factor in the amount of people that shuts out, how does what MS is getting out of it (whatever that is) outweigh all that lost revenue?

I don't give a rat's ass about console gaming, but that's the part I don't understand about this. What does Microsoft get out of an always online requirement?

/I understand the piracy argument on PC -- though Diablo 3 was the most dissapointing $60 I've spent largely because I couldn't play the damn thing if I took the wrong day off work -- but consoles? I don't see the benifit for Microsoft.


Marketing data. The nasty secret is they are hoping to cash in with marketing data as you stream Netflixs, Hulu, HBO Go, etc... through the box, use it for an internet browser, and of course a gaming device. They want to become the centerpiece of your home entertainment system and leverage that to sell your data to other company.
 
2013-06-14 01:42:22 PM

DeArmondVI: thankfully Microsoft builds quality products, and this is just to protect them from vulture trial lawyers that collect 80 plus percent from payouts from frivolous suits


*cough* red ring *cough*

Sorry had something in my throat.
 
2013-06-14 02:38:26 PM
Thats it what ever infinitesimal bit of a desire I might have had to buy the thing is well and truly squashed.

Yes i know Sony has the same thing but they have not had the same history of knowingly selling a defective system.
 
2013-06-14 03:25:11 PM

optikeye: firefly212: it would default to federal law, which says that you've got to honor the arbitration unless you can prove gross negligence in the arbitration itself.

There's nothing in the EULA that mentioned Arbitration. You are confusing signing a EULA with arbitration. Those are two wildly differently things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration

In Arbitration it stills goes to court and the other side will have someone--an arbitrators  to be defend their position. Again there's nothing about arbitrators  in the Xbox agreement.


Incorrect. An arbitration does not go to court; it goes to an arbiter. When the defending party chooses the arbiter, this tends to be a subsidiary of the corporation itselfor another party friendly to the defending party. This is why arbitrations are simply tossed put by the arbiter in, without hyperbole, 99.99% of cases (yes, one in ten thousand)

tl;dr version: Microsoft can legally mail you an empty box, keep your money, and there is squat you can do about it.
 
2013-06-14 04:12:54 PM
Any smarty-pants paralegal likes here on FARK that would like to write up a consumer friendly EULA that companies have to "accept" by receiving payments from me?  Something along the lines of, "by accepting my payment, you agree to allow me to pursue any legal recourse against your company, bypassing all arbitration, as I find necessary".

Maybe we need to fight this head on and do to them exactly what they do to us.
 
2013-06-14 04:19:18 PM

captainktainer: the_sidewinder: captainktainer: I agree, but I'm afraid you're wrong about not being enforceable. In Prima Paint Corp v. Flood & Conklin Mfg. Co, the Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause must be respected first, and in Compucredit Corp. v. Greenwood, the Supreme Court held that the binding arbitration clauses authorized by the Federal Arbitration Act are sacrosanct.

So would that indicate that should arbitration fail, a class action could be started? How big of a hurdle would that be?

The current understanding is that because the arbitration is binding, you can't challenge the results unless there's evidence of gross negligence. It's sickening, and it's one of the many reasons neither Scalia nor Thomas should have been allowed on the Court - and why the Federal Arbitration Act should never have been approved. Allowing customers to sign away their rights in a boilerplate agreement is... beyond wrong.




I can't wait for the return of slavery.
 
2013-06-14 05:52:47 PM
Sim Tree:
tl;dr version: Microsoft can legally mail you an empty box, keep your money, and there is squat you can do about it.

Well, this isn't quite true, because if you don't have the console, you haven't turned it on to agree to the EULA. You're not the End User yet for the product  you don't own.
 
2013-06-14 07:01:18 PM

You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.


PSN did this exact same thing right after they got hacked and leaked my CC data to whoever got into their servers... the idea that they aren't gonna keep doing it is just silly.
 
2013-06-14 07:29:30 PM

OgreMagi: hardinparamedic: OgreMagi: Thank you for helping to pay my salary.

You're welcome. I work hard to help people on Welfare. :)

Don't annoy me.  I can have your Playstation disabled remotely.

/not really, but I've used that threat successfully on my younger family members


I can disable Playstations remotely.

//Need a clean line of sight, but I can do it...
 
2013-06-14 08:22:53 PM

the_sidewinder: This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


This. There are plenty of idiotic decisions made with the Xbox One (DRM lunacy, Kinect requirement, going with GDDR3 memory)...but this is run-of-the-mill boilerplate stuff that isn't really enforcible.
 
2013-06-14 08:29:06 PM
If you own the Xbox 360 you're already under this agreement, it's been that way for almost two years now. PlayStation does this too.  This is just people making a big deal over nothing.
 
rpm
2013-06-14 11:40:14 PM

ReapTheChaos: If you own the Xbox 360 you're already under this agreement, it's been that way for almost two years now. PlayStation does this too.  This is just people making a big deal over nothing.


Not quite nothing. The 360 didn't get the extended warranty and the RRoD fixed until threat of class action lawsuit. So, why would you want to get new hardware from MS when the only thing that caused them to fix the last generation isn't available now?
 
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