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(International Business Times)   Thank you for pre-ordering the Xbox One However, in order to complete your order you must first agree to waive your rights to file a class action lawsuit against Microsoft in case of massive console failures   (ibtimes.com) divider line 149
    More: PSA, Xbox, Microsoft, class-action, consumer advocacy, waive, system console, objectivity  
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4649 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jun 2013 at 12:35 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



149 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-13 10:52:46 PM
Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.
 
2013-06-14 12:03:00 AM
Microsoft Announcer: We're here in Tuscaloosa, Alabama to see if we can convince Playstation 4 users to switch to the new XBox One.
Microsoft Announcer to Random Person:  We have NCAA 13 on the PS4 and XBox One side by side.  If you can identify which system is the XBox One, we'll give you a free XBox One!
Random Person:  It's the one that locked up.
Microsoft Announcer:  Fark!
Random Person:  It's cool, keep it.
 
2013-06-14 12:07:10 AM

You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.


I've been playing XB since 360 was released. For the first time since PS2 first dropped, I have my name on a pre-order list for a Playstation product.
 
2013-06-14 12:09:10 AM

You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure.


^^^This.
 
2013-06-14 12:09:50 AM
Hahahahahahah. No, thanks.
 
2013-06-14 12:34:17 AM
This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam
 
2013-06-14 12:35:50 AM
its*
 
2013-06-14 12:40:37 AM
That's what happens when you let the bean counters instead of engineers run the show.  Good-bye Microsoft.
 
2013-06-14 12:44:40 AM
It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care.
 
2013-06-14 12:46:28 AM

the_sidewinder: This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


I agree, but I'm afraid you're wrong about not being enforceable. In Prima Paint Corp v. Flood & Conklin Mfg. Co, the Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause must be respected first, and in Compucredit Corp. v. Greenwood, the Supreme Court held that the binding arbitration clauses authorized by the Federal Arbitration Act are sacrosanct.

Every company is including this on everything. We have to change this, and I'm not getting the XBox One for any number of other reasons (none of them financial, apart from the fact that the PS4 is cheaper and has more power), but singling out Microsoft on this is unfair.
 
2013-06-14 12:47:15 AM

hardinparamedic: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

I've been playing XB since 360 was released. For the first time since PS2 first dropped, I have my name on a pre-order list for a Playstation product.


Thank you for helping to pay my salary.
 
2013-06-14 12:47:24 AM
I'm not buying an Xbone.  How fail is it, that MSFT didn't think people would call it an "Xbone?"
 
2013-06-14 12:51:18 AM

captainktainer: I agree, but I'm afraid you're wrong about not being enforceable. In Prima Paint Corp v. Flood & Conklin Mfg. Co, the Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause must be respected first, and in Compucredit Corp. v. Greenwood, the Supreme Court held that the binding arbitration clauses authorized by the Federal Arbitration Act are sacrosanct.


So would that indicate that should arbitration fail, a class action could be started? How big of a hurdle would that be?
 
2013-06-14 12:57:09 AM

You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.


Umm, even in the PS3 contract, right now it says that you cant file a class action.
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement
PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

frankly, the more I see of this console war, the more I love my PC.
 
2013-06-14 12:59:03 AM

OgreMagi: Thank you for helping to pay my salary.


You're welcome. I work hard to help people on Welfare. :)
 
2013-06-14 01:00:28 AM
thankfully Microsoft builds quality products, and this is just to protect them from vulture trial lawyers that collect 80 plus percent from payouts from frivolous suits
 
2013-06-14 01:01:04 AM

the_sidewinder: captainktainer: I agree, but I'm afraid you're wrong about not being enforceable. In Prima Paint Corp v. Flood & Conklin Mfg. Co, the Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause must be respected first, and in Compucredit Corp. v. Greenwood, the Supreme Court held that the binding arbitration clauses authorized by the Federal Arbitration Act are sacrosanct.

So would that indicate that should arbitration fail, a class action could be started? How big of a hurdle would that be?


The current understanding is that because the arbitration is binding, you can't challenge the results unless there's evidence of gross negligence. It's sickening, and it's one of the many reasons neither Scalia nor Thomas should have been allowed on the Court - and why the Federal Arbitration Act should never have been approved. Allowing customers to sign away their rights in a boilerplate agreement is... beyond wrong.
 
2013-06-14 01:01:49 AM

hardinparamedic: OgreMagi: Thank you for helping to pay my salary.

You're welcome. I work hard to help people on Welfare. :)


Don't annoy me.  I can have your Playstation disabled remotely.

/not really, but I've used that threat successfully on my younger family members
 
2013-06-14 01:02:14 AM

DeArmondVI: thankfully Microsoft builds quality products, and this is just to protect them from vulture trial lawyers that collect 80 plus percent from payouts from frivolous suits


Tell me you're taking the piss out of us. Please.
 
2013-06-14 01:03:11 AM

firefly212: that you cant file a class action.


Most states have a law that says you can't wave away your rights from a EULA.
 
2013-06-14 01:04:54 AM

DeArmondVI: thankfully Microsoft builds quality products, and this is just to protect them from vulture trial lawyers that collect 80 plus percent from payouts from frivolous suits


I was part of one class action lawsuit and won.  It was against Bank of America for some dubious banking practice.  For example, processing debits before deposits and slapping on lots of overdraft charges that resulted (they got me for a lot of money with that).

So my winnings from the lawsuit was .... a coupon good for discounted banking services at Bank of America.
 
2013-06-14 01:07:15 AM

captainktainer: DeArmondVI: thankfully Microsoft builds quality products, and this is just to protect them from vulture trial lawyers that collect 80 plus percent from payouts from frivolous suits

Tell me you're taking the piss out of us. Please.


I hear that Edgar Allen Poe slaw is the best you can buy on the market
 
2013-06-14 01:09:07 AM

OgreMagi: hardinparamedic: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

I've been playing XB since 360 was released. For the first time since PS2 first dropped, I have my name on a pre-order list for a Playstation product.

Thank you for helping to pay my salary.


My God! You assemble PS4s? Do you supervise the Morlocks?
 
2013-06-14 01:09:26 AM

captainktainer: The current understanding is that because the arbitration is binding, you can't challenge the results unless there's evidence of gross negligence. It's sickening, and it's one of the many reasons neither Scalia nor Thomas should have been allowed on the Court - and why the Federal Arbitration Act should never have been approved. Allowing customers to sign away their rights in a boilerplate agreement is... beyond wrong.


Now I'm curious as to how enforceable it is in other countries, because that sounds like being on the end of a paddle being used to navigate poop creek
 
2013-06-14 01:10:01 AM

optikeye: It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care.


Is this a theme lately?

Most people are ignorant or apathetic, so they deserve to be screwed over by whoever can?
 
2013-06-14 01:10:54 AM

captainktainer: arbitration is binding


Why is arbitration being brought up?

That's not what the EULA says...it simply says you 'agree' to this' and sign away your rights..there's nothing in the MS thing that mentions arbitration and that shouldn't be brought up, as it's not part of the contract.

Many state have laws that say you can not sign away your rights for using a product. "Arbitration" are usually lawyer on lawyer things. One on One cases.
 
2013-06-14 01:13:58 AM

gnosis301: OgreMagi: hardinparamedic: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

I've been playing XB since 360 was released. For the first time since PS2 first dropped, I have my name on a pre-order list for a Playstation product.

Thank you for helping to pay my salary.

My God! You assemble PS4s? Do you supervise the Morlocks?


I'm a Unix system administrator for SCEA.
 
2013-06-14 01:14:53 AM

optikeye: firefly212: that you cant file a class action.

Most states have a law that says you can't wave away your rights from a EULA.


But the class would be a federal action, so the state law wouldn't be applicable, it would default to federal law, which says that you've got to honor the arbitration unless you can prove gross negligence in the arbitration itself.
 
2013-06-14 01:17:07 AM

optikeye: That's not what the EULA says...it simply says you 'agree' to this' and sign away your rights..there's nothing in the MS thing that mentions arbitration and that shouldn't be brought up, as it's not part of the contract.


Yes, it is what the EULA says

"Terms include binding arbitration with class action waiver to resolve disputes."

It even says this in the article
 
2013-06-14 01:19:40 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-14 01:20:26 AM

optikeye: It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care.


The Playstation is also $100 cheaper. Being considerably more expensive than its main rival, and with Nintendo still around to siphon off a lot of the more casual players, the Xbox needs hardcore gamers more than they need the Xbox. Furthermore, if you're a parent shopping for Christmas presents, are you going to spend an extra $100 for a system that has gotten this much bad press? A system that has a creepy mandatory camera that your dumbass kid will most certainly forget to turn toward the damn wall? Any one of the issues with the Xbone would maybe not doom it, but all at the same time? They're farked.
 
2013-06-14 01:20:50 AM

the_sidewinder: optikeye: That's not what the EULA says...it simply says you 'agree' to this' and sign away your rights..there's nothing in the MS thing that mentions arbitration and that shouldn't be brought up, as it's not part of the contract.

Yes, it is what the EULA says

"Terms include binding arbitration with class action waiver to resolve disputes."

It even says this in the article


This EULA shiat needs to be fixed.  We've had judges rule they aren't binding.  We've had judges rule they are binding.  We need it settled.  And hopefully the ruling is "an EULA doesn't mean shiat legally, biatches."

/yes, I'd love to hear a judge say those exact words in a courtroom
 
2013-06-14 01:23:00 AM

firefly212: it would default to federal law, which says that you've got to honor the arbitration unless you can prove gross negligence in the arbitration itself.


There's nothing in the EULA that mentioned Arbitration. You are confusing signing a EULA with arbitration. Those are two wildly differently things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration

In Arbitration it stills goes to court and the other side will have someone--an arbitrators  to be defend their position. Again there's nothing about arbitrators  in the Xbox agreement.
 
2013-06-14 01:24:38 AM

OgreMagi: yes, I'd love to hear a judge say those exact words in a courtroom


You and me both. The terms in EULAs tend to be far too one sided
 
2013-06-14 01:24:46 AM

DeArmondVI: thankfully Microsoft builds quality products, and this is just to protect them from vulture trial lawyers that collect 80 plus percent from payouts from frivolous suits


No backwards compatibility.
No game sharing.
Always-on connection for single player games.
A camera that reads facial expressions, which is a required piece of hardware.
 
2013-06-14 01:25:24 AM

the_sidewinder: "Terms include binding arbitration with class action waiver to resolve disputes."


Okay...fark them. That's wrong and probably illegal in some states for 'click and go' EULA.
 
2013-06-14 01:32:15 AM

the_sidewinder: OgreMagi: yes, I'd love to hear a judge say those exact words in a courtroom

You and me both. The terms in EULAs tend to be far too one sided


The last time I read an EULA for a game, I learned that the only guarantee was the disk worked.  No, I don't mean the game on the disk.  I mean that you could read the disk, but the contents of the disk were not guaranteed to do a damn thing, not even execute.  Basically, if I could get a directory listing, their obligation for my $50 was met.

I once tried to return a game.  The installer crashed on three different computers.  The store refused to refund or exchange for a different game.  They would only exchange it for the same game.
 
2013-06-14 01:34:26 AM
I will be buying a PS4. Does Microsoft not realize they have competitors?
 
2013-06-14 01:35:39 AM
"Always on camera" + minors + game console in bedroom = SUPERBIGBADCLASSACTIONLAWSUIT COMING MICROSOFT'S WAY.  Ain't no EULA gonna sterilize Microsoft from that one.
 
2013-06-14 01:36:24 AM

JesusJuice: I will be buying a PS4. Does Microsoft not realize they have competitors?


Microsoft went so long owning something like 90% of the desktop market that I think they are still stuck in the "we're the only game in town" mindset.  It's infected their other divisions.
 
2013-06-14 01:38:09 AM
Keep a child around to click on "I agree".  Minors can not legally enter into a contract.  Be sure to leave the room when he/she does it.
 
2013-06-14 01:43:33 AM

OgreMagi: hardinparamedic: OgreMagi: Thank you for helping to pay my salary.

You're welcome. I work hard to help people on Welfare. :)

Don't annoy me.  I can have your Playstation disabled remotely.

/not really, but I've used that threat successfully on my younger family members


I told my nephew that we regularly record everything the PS3 Eye is pointed at and sends the video to his parents.  Including the times it he was jerking off

/he's not very bright
//neither is his father
///I'm the evil uncle
 
2013-06-14 01:44:41 AM

OgreMagi: Keep a child around to click on "I agree".  Minors can not legally enter into a contract.  Be sure to leave the room when he/she does it.


The always on camera can record that they did it.
 
2013-06-14 01:45:50 AM

sendtodave: OgreMagi: Keep a child around to click on "I agree".  Minors can not legally enter into a contract.  Be sure to leave the room when he/she does it.

The always on camera can record that they did it.


Good.  Proof that a minor clicked it, so there is no legal contract.
 
2013-06-14 01:55:09 AM
optikeye
It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care


Well, once the first videos of them playing games in the buff appear on the internet, they might start to care.

Shiat, I should have paid attention to the news; hadn't heard that about the cameras until this week.
Someone else already registered "xboners.com" three weeks ago.
 
2013-06-14 01:58:26 AM
MS: "Just let it happen, it'll be over soon."
 
2013-06-14 01:59:06 AM

firefly212: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

Umm, even in the PS3 contract, right now it says that you cant file a class action.
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement
PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

frankly, the more I see of this console war, the more I love my PC.


And there it is.
 
2013-06-14 01:59:48 AM
"In court, justice is blind," he said. "In arbitration, justice is not blind. It's not even a case of one eye peeking out. The blindfold is over her forehead."

Link
 
2013-06-14 02:03:27 AM
WII U SUCKAS
Nintendo's too cheap to hire lawyers
 
2013-06-14 02:04:06 AM

ScaryBottles: firefly212: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

Umm, even in the PS3 contract, right now it says that you cant file a class action.
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement
PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

frankly, the more I see of this console war, the more I love my PC.

And there it is.


Eh, at this point it is a valid comment. I see little reason to go console over dumping that cash into my pc at this point. I'm still open; I do prefer the simplicity of a console.

Ymmv.
 
2013-06-14 02:09:21 AM
 
2013-06-14 02:10:16 AM

OgreMagi: the_sidewinder: OgreMagi: yes, I'd love to hear a judge say those exact words in a courtroom

You and me both. The terms in EULAs tend to be far too one sided

The last time I read an EULA for a game, I learned that the only guarantee was the disk worked.  No, I don't mean the game on the disk.  I mean that you could read the disk, but the contents of the disk were not guaranteed to do a damn thing, not even execute.  Basically, if I could get a directory listing, their obligation for my $50 was met.

I once tried to return a game.  The installer crashed on three different computers.  The store refused to refund or exchange for a different game.  They would only exchange it for the same game.


You paid $50 for a set of floppies?

/i keed
 
2013-06-14 02:12:08 AM

Smackledorfer: ScaryBottles: firefly212: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

Umm, even in the PS3 contract, right now it says that you cant file a class action.
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement
PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

frankly, the more I see of this console war, the more I love my PC.

And there it is.

Eh, at this point it is a valid comment. I see little reason to go console over dumping that cash into my pc at this point. I'm still open; I do prefer the simplicity of a console.

Ymmv.


It would be valid if it wasn't such a sad attempt at trying to make the XBO and the PS4 seem somehow equivalent.  One introduces a bunch of asinine restrictions on user rights when it comes to games and the use/trading thereof.  The other uses the same restrictions that the last generation used, and the generation before that, and before that, etc. etc. etc.

Also, trying to hang responsibility for EA's shiatacular DRM plans on Sony is hilarious.  Did you blame Dell or Alienware or any other PC company for the crapfest that was the SimCity launch?  They made the console it ran on so it must be their fault, right?  Exact same logic.
 
2013-06-14 02:13:05 AM

Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it


The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!
 
2013-06-14 02:36:01 AM

foo monkey: I'm not buying an Xbone.  How fail is it, that MSFT didn't think people would call it an "Xbone?"


It's apparently called "XBox recently divorced" in Japan due to a naming/linguistic quirk.
 
2013-06-14 02:38:35 AM

yukichigai: Smackledorfer: ScaryBottles: firefly212: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

Umm, even in the PS3 contract, right now it says that you cant file a class action.
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement
PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

frankly, the more I see of this console war, the more I love my PC.

And there it is.

Eh, at this point it is a valid comment. I see little reason to go console over dumping that cash into my pc at this point. I'm still open; I do prefer the simplicity of a console.

Ymmv.

It would be valid if it wasn't such a sad attempt at trying to make the XBO and the PS4 seem somehow equivalent.  One introduces a bunch of asinine restrictions on user rights when it comes to games and the use/trading thereof.  The other uses the same restrictions that the last generation used, and the generation before that, and before that, etc. etc. etc.

Also, trying to hang responsibility for EA's shiatacular DRM plans on Sony is hilarious.  Did you blame Dell or Alienware or any other PC company for the crapfest that was the SimCity launch?  They made the console it ran on so it must be their fault, right?  Exact same logic.


I blame any console, which I would buy for simplicity and reliability (and less and less going forward a superior power ratio and game library for the money. Almost nonexistent now).

Simcity sucking is hardly the damning of all PCs relative to consoles that you seem to think it is.

Granted my views of consoles don't matter to sony or ms. They are fighting over the folks who probably wouldn't consider a pc as their primary gaming device. I almost skipped the last generation but a cheap 360 came my way. It was well worth it. I don't see that happening with this generation.

I am absolutely not just repeating pc master race meme here.
 
2013-06-14 02:43:29 AM

Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!


As mentioned in the last thread Military personnel?

Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.  Here are the launch countries:
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Brazil
• Canada
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Ireland
• Italy
• Mexico
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Russia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• United Kingdom
• United States

Spain but no Portugal?
Brazil, but not Venezuela or Peru?
No Jamaica?
No Chile?

Heck, they managed to do Austria, Germany, and Russia, but not Poland.  I'm not even talking about places like South Sudan or Laos.  When your launch doesn't take into account South Korea and Japan, you are not thinking properly.  Those are places that are notoriously hard to "come from behind" at.  Especially when your presence in that region is already tenuous.
 
2013-06-14 02:43:42 AM

Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!


You'd be surprised. I'm not liable to take a console on say, a business trip, but I would like to watch netflix or hbogo when I travel. Went to Toronto for a week back in April and neither would work for me there. I was not a happy camper. It's gotten to the point where I keep some copies of shows I want to watch on a USB drive just so I have something to watch if I travel abroad.

Once again, you might be right about consoles but I loathe region restrictions of any kind.
 
2013-06-14 02:56:28 AM

Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!


You'd be surprised about the amount of people that would care.  This is actually more annoying to me than the always on requirement. There were always XBoxes or PS3s in Iraq & Afghanistan with the troops.  I'm military right now working overseas in a country that's not covered. From here I'm going to another country that's not covered and I plan on moving to foriegn service once I get out, where shockingly there's a likely chance I won't be in the coverage again.  No XBox for me.  So the majority people who work in embassies and alot of the military overseas won't be able to use one because the country they work in isn't covered.
 
2013-06-14 03:15:43 AM

Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it


Pretty sure the EU doesn't allow MS to restrict network use to only some EU nations; it's an all or nothing deal. MS can however limit which EU nations it ships XBones to. There was a case a few years ago brought forth by Sky that made this clear.
 
2013-06-14 03:17:31 AM
firefly212:
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement

True, but customer pressure can make a difference.  Maybe not with EA since they are total assholes, but other game companies will see the backlash and have second thoughts about DRM.

PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

Again, that will depend upon the game company.  Some games will be worth a subscription, especially if they are constantly adding new content with that subscription.  Games that add nothing from month to month will die.

And since I've made it known I work for SCEA, I have to say this:

My statements are my personal opinion and do not reflect company policy, blah, blah, blah.

Note.  SCEA is very good about employees making comments online.  We can say anything we want so long as we don't reveal trade secrets and we make it clear it's our personal opinion.  So I'll be good so I don't get hauled in front of the legal department .... Except there's this one uber hot chick in legal who always wears fishnet stockings that I wouldn't mind hooking up with ...  Oops.  *sigh*  Another visit from HR is in my future.
 
2013-06-14 03:19:01 AM

OgreMagi: firefly212:
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement

True, but customer pressure can make a difference.  Maybe not with EA since they are total assholes, but other game companies will see the backlash and have second thoughts about DRM.

PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

Again, that will depend upon the game company.  Some games will be worth a subscription, especially if they are constantly adding new content with that subscription.  Games that add nothing from month to month will die.

And since I've made it known I work for SCEA, I have to say this:

My statements are my personal opinion and do not reflect company policy, blah, blah, blah.

Note.  SCEA is very good about employees making comments online.  We can say anything we want so long as we don't reveal trade secrets and we make it clear it's our personal opinion.  So I'll be good so I don't get hauled in front of the legal department .... Except there's this one uber hot chick in legal who always wears fishnet stockings that I wouldn't mind hooking up with ...  Oops.  *sigh*  Another visit from HR is in my future.


Well don't stop. If you're already going to HR, we might as well get more details.
 
2013-06-14 03:19:19 AM

degenerate-afro: Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!

As mentioned in the last thread Military personnel?

Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.  Here are the launch countries:
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Brazil
• Canada
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Ireland
• Italy
• Mexico
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Russia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• United Kingdom
• United States

Spain but no Portugal?
Brazil, but not Venezuela or Peru?
No Jamaica?
No Chile?

Heck, they managed to do Austria, Germany, and Russia, but not Poland.  I'm not even talking about places like South Sudan or Laos.  When your launch doesn't take into account South Korea and Japan, you are not thinking properly.  Those are places that are notoriously hard to "come from behind" at.  Especially when your presence in that region is already tenuous.


As I just posted, I'm pretty sure that's a violation of EU law and has already been tested by a major corporation (and they failed). What's surprising to me is MS thinks Luxemburg (one of the wealthiest per-capita nations on the planet) isn't worthy to be XBoned.
 
2013-06-14 03:21:18 AM

degenerate-afro: When your launch doesn't take into account South Korea and Japan, you are not thinking properly. Those are places that are notoriously hard to "come from behind" at.


For you, maybe.

img459.imageshack.us
 
2013-06-14 03:21:35 AM
I don't understand how Microsoft has gone full retard in the past few years? First, the Windows 8 Metro is such a debacle on PCs that 8.1 has to finally give back an option that could be a friggen check-mark in the install process, and then the Xbone (heh, I like that)  is making the Apple ecosphere look attractive by comparison!
 
2013-06-14 03:22:00 AM

digistil: As I just posted, I'm pretty sure that's a violation of EU law and has already been tested by a major corporation (and they failed).


The fines are so low that Microsoft can pay them with the change they find in their couch.
 
2013-06-14 03:26:42 AM

Jsin82: Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!

You'd be surprised about the amount of people that would care.  This is actually more annoying to me than the always on requirement. There were always XBoxes or PS3s in Iraq & Afghanistan with the troops.  I'm military right now working overseas in a country that's not covered. From here I'm going to another country that's not covered and I plan on moving to foriegn service once I get out, where shockingly there's a likely chance I won't be in the coverage again.  No XBox for me.  So the majority people who work in embassies and alot of the military overseas won't be able to use one because the country they work in isn't covered.


I didn't say "NOBODY cares", did I?
I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.
But tell me more about the people in Antarctica who can't play their 1 Xbox that someone brought.
 
2013-06-14 03:31:11 AM

foo monkey: DeArmondVI: thankfully Microsoft builds quality products, and this is just to protect them from vulture trial lawyers that collect 80 plus percent from payouts from frivolous suits

No backwards compatibility.
No game sharing.
Always-on connection for single player games.
A camera that reads facial expressions, which is a required piece of hardware.


If someone gave one (cause I wouldn't buy) I would tape up either the RCA Indian Head or the classic Johnny Cash at San Quentin (PNSFW) photo at the Focal length for them to view
 
2013-06-14 03:31:24 AM

Begoggle: Jsin82: Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!

You'd be surprised about the amount of people that would care.  This is actually more annoying to me than the always on requirement. There were always XBoxes or PS3s in Iraq & Afghanistan with the troops.  I'm military right now working overseas in a country that's not covered. From here I'm going to another country that's not covered and I plan on moving to foriegn service once I get out, where shockingly there's a likely chance I won't be in the coverage again.  No XBox for me.  So the majority people who work in embassies and alot of the military overseas won't be able to use one because the country they work in isn't covered.

I didn't say "NOBODY cares", did I?
I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.
But tell me more about the people in Antarctica who can't play their 1 Xbox that someone brought.


No your percentage is just bullshiat, and that's more or less what he said. Reading is hard.
 
2013-06-14 03:38:23 AM

Smackledorfer: Simcity sucking is hardly the damning of all PCs relative to consoles that you seem to think it is.


That was the point.  We don't decry the PC as a platform because SimCity was full of ass-tastic DRM.  Similarly, we shouldn't be counting points against the PS4 if EA saddles some of their PS4 games with ass-tastic DRM.
 
2013-06-14 03:43:35 AM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-06-14 04:06:36 AM
In other XBone news, you can shut down everyone's XBone via multiplayer and party chat:

"If someone on Xbox Live party chat says "Xbox Off" will all of their Xboxes turn off?" I asked, and got an answer.

i.imgur.com


Source:  http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1gb0l5/if_someone_on_xbox_liv e _party_chat_says_xbox_off/
 
2013-06-14 05:15:37 AM
Well they will support half the current 42 XBox Live territories at launch. No word of how long before the others catch up. Possibly for localisation reasons, not supporting territories that traditionally do not sell well (Japan?) or that they haven't nailed down the appropriate cable/TV features with each territory (seems US-centric).

All XBox Live Territories

At Launch:
Supported          Not Supported

Australia              Argentina
Austria                Chile
Belgium               Colombia
Brazil                   Czech Republic
Canada               Greece
Denmark             Hong Kong
Finland                Hungary
France                 India
Germany              Israel
Ireland                 Japan
Italy                      Korea
Mexico                  Poland
Netherlands         Portugal
New Zealand        Saudi Arabia
Norway                 Singapore
Russia                  Slovakia
Spain                    South Africa
Sweden                Taiwan
Switzerland           Turkey
United Kingdom    United Arab Emirates
United States
 
2013-06-14 05:31:16 AM
 
2013-06-14 05:47:53 AM

the_sidewinder: /PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


DING!

I'm all for handing the Xbox devs their ass over the new system, but let's be fair that this goes across the board for all companies.
 
2013-06-14 06:12:17 AM

meatofmystery: the_sidewinder: /PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam

DING!

I'm all for handing the Xbox devs their ass over the new system, but let's be fair that this goes across the board for all companies.


Why let reality get in the way of the daily MS rants.
 
2013-06-14 06:21:41 AM
Here's a special offer for all hot, young, female farkettes.  Buy a PS4 and I will personally sex you for an entire night.  As an employee of SCEA, I want to make your gaming experience the best ever.

Wait.  Where is everyone going?  ....
 
2013-06-14 06:30:22 AM
As brutal as MS's Xbone's campaign is going so far its as if no one remembers any of Sony's bullshiat throughout the PS3, including its own attempt to make people sign away the right to class action lawsuits (remember, it was right after the second time some script kiddies broke into Sony's best attempts at network security and stole everyone's account info).  The race between those two is this:
lovesujeiry.com

/You know there are other options...
//(It ain't a Nintendo)
 
2013-06-14 06:35:39 AM
Didn't Steam just lose a big case in the EU over their restrictive digital rules?

Doesn't the EU have some decent consumer protection laws? I'm pretty sure Canada does too. And they all address all the crap Microsoft is trying to pull here.

At what point do all the lawsuits waiting to happen everywhere outside of the US over the console start hurting the consoles profitability?
 
2013-06-14 06:37:38 AM
OgreMagi:

I'm a Unix system administrator for SCEA.

A sysadmin for SCEA?

You guys are doing a real bang up job, there. I'm glad you gave me a couple of free games for the whole identity theft thing. Keep 'er up.
 
2013-06-14 06:38:52 AM

ModernLuddite: OgreMagi:

I'm a Unix system administrator for SCEA.

A sysadmin for SCEA?

You guys are doing a real bang up job, there. I'm glad you gave me a couple of free games for the whole identity theft thing. Keep 'er up.


Different department entirely.  I had nothing to do with that and have never touched those servers.
 
2013-06-14 06:41:01 AM

OgreMagi: ModernLuddite: OgreMagi:

I'm a Unix system administrator for SCEA.

A sysadmin for SCEA?

You guys are doing a real bang up job, there. I'm glad you gave me a couple of free games for the whole identity theft thing. Keep 'er up.

Different department entirely.  I had nothing to do with that and have never touched those servers.


Doesn't matter, F'ing up that badly and consistently taints everyone who claims to do 'computers' across an entire company.
 
2013-06-14 06:43:48 AM

BumpInTheNight: OgreMagi: ModernLuddite: OgreMagi:

I'm a Unix system administrator for SCEA.

A sysadmin for SCEA?

You guys are doing a real bang up job, there. I'm glad you gave me a couple of free games for the whole identity theft thing. Keep 'er up.

Different department entirely.  I had nothing to do with that and have never touched those servers.

Doesn't matter, F'ing up that badly and consistently taints everyone who claims to do 'computers' across an entire company.


LIke hell.  I took a look at the incident.  Without revealing anything, all I can say is my reaction was, "you've got to be farking kidding me?"  My department is constantly being attacked.  And always unsuccessful.
 
2013-06-14 07:01:07 AM

the_sidewinder: This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


Does it have, "You can't play your own games in single-player mode unless you connect to the internet, and you can't turn off the spy-eye?"
 
2013-06-14 07:02:47 AM

BumpInTheNight: Doesn't matter, F'ing up that badly and consistently taints everyone who claims to do 'computers' across an entire company.


Perhaps in your eyes, but reality is quite the opposite.
 
2013-06-14 07:06:02 AM

digistil: BumpInTheNight: Doesn't matter, F'ing up that badly and consistently taints everyone who claims to do 'computers' across an entire company.

Perhaps in your eyes, but reality is quite the opposite.


Really?  Show me a reality where you'd still take a company's IT staff seriously if, twice, they had their entire online database compromised.  Once is one thing, after the mistakes you shuffle things around and get your better staff onto the weak project to shore it up.  Twice though?  Categorically you cannot trust them from the CIO/CTO down.
 
2013-06-14 07:06:27 AM

OgreMagi: LIke hell.  I took a look at the incident.  Without revealing anything, all I can say is my reaction was, "you've got to be farking kidding me?"  My department is constantly being attacked.  And always unsuccessful.


I heard they were running lots of shiat unpatched, which I'm guessing is the result of a few people in way over their head or being the incarnation of arrogance.
 
2013-06-14 07:08:08 AM

digistil: In other XBone news, you can shut down everyone's XBone via multiplayer and party chat:

"If someone on Xbox Live party chat says "Xbox Off" will all of their Xboxes turn off?" I asked, and got an answer.




Source:  http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1gb0l5/if_someone_on_xbox_liv e _party_chat_says_xbox_off/


LOL. That takes me back to the old days of AOL Chat on dialup : "Press Alt-F4 if you love NSync!"

*flood of people sign out of chat*

Muahahaha.
 
2013-06-14 07:20:34 AM

degenerate-afro: Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!

As mentioned in the last thread Military personnel?

Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.  Here are the launch countries:
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Brazil
• Canada
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Ireland
• Italy
• Mexico
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Russia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• United Kingdom
• United States

Spain but no Portugal?
Brazil, but not Venezuela or Peru?
No Jamaica?
No Chile?

Heck, they managed to do Austria, Germany, and Russia, but not Poland.  I'm not even talking about places like South Sudan or Laos.  When your launch doesn't take into account South Korea and Japan, you are not thinking properly.  Those are places that are notoriously hard to "come from behind" at.  Especially when your presence in that region is already tenuous.


It's not like everyone in the US can use this farce of a product.
Apparently some folks are very unaware of the obvious.
There are these strange things in between cities and towns.
Hills. Mountains. Woodlands. No cell service, no broadband access.
I have broadband access where I live now, but I am looking at homes to buy where I may not have access.
Even if I have an internet connection, there is no way I will buy the Xbox.
Microsoft wants to control how you use a product that you purchased.
You bought it, but it's not yours.  All they had to do was make a good gaming console.
This is just a black box that the corporation is using to push their agenda on you.
Act like you have a pair, and fight for your rights as a consumer.
 
2013-06-14 07:22:51 AM

redmid17: Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!

You'd be surprised. I'm not liable to take a console on say, a business trip, but I would like to watch netflix or hbogo when I travel. Went to Toronto for a week back in April and neither would work for me there. I was not a happy camper. It's gotten to the point where I keep some copies of shows I want to watch on a USB drive just so I have something to watch if I travel abroad.

Once again, you might be right about consoles but I loathe region restrictions of any kind.


Let me introduce you to hola.org.
 
2013-06-14 07:22:55 AM

BumpInTheNight: digistil: BumpInTheNight: Doesn't matter, F'ing up that badly and consistently taints everyone who claims to do 'computers' across an entire company.

Perhaps in your eyes, but reality is quite the opposite.

Really?  Show me a reality where you'd still take a company's IT staff seriously if, twice, they had their entire online database compromised.  Once is one thing, after the mistakes you shuffle things around and get your better staff onto the weak project to shore it up.  Twice though?  Categorically you cannot trust them from the CIO/CTO down.


Really. A corporation the size of Sony has so many cogs, I think it's foolish to paint with such a broad brush. Simply because someone that works at Sony works in IT, doesn't label them as responsible for the gross incompetence of a few.

Also, I wouldn't categorize (what I believe you're referring to) as a second hack. It was a (very short lived) exploit that allowed someone to do the initial password reset (required after the first hack) of someone else's PSN account if they knew the email address and DoB of said account. I'm not discounting it's severity, but it was in now way like the prior hack.

The reality is these sorts of issues tend to result in the corporation's given incompetence becoming a strength, due to it being elevated to a very high priority for the longer term.
 
2013-06-14 07:24:10 AM

Someothermonkey: imageshack.us


Wait, is that saying that the only place a PS4 will not work is near the South Africa-Lesotho border?
 
2013-06-14 07:24:43 AM

digistil: OgreMagi: LIke hell.  I took a look at the incident.  Without revealing anything, all I can say is my reaction was, "you've got to be farking kidding me?"  My department is constantly being attacked.  And always unsuccessful.

I heard they were running lots of shiat unpatched, which I'm guessing is the result of a few people in way over their head or being the incarnation of arrogance.


Well if it's like my company, it's because to get an outage/patch authorized, there's about 40 different people who have a say in whether it will happen and inevitably someone will veto because their service is so important that a 10mins shutdown on 6am Sunday would end the world.  Eventually, the bureaucratic morass just makes you say fark it. Let it all burn.
 
2013-06-14 07:25:10 AM
I am so disappointed in the "console wars".

If this were like high school: Nintendo would be like that likeable but unintelligible experimental drug user, Sony is the shifty kid who might deliver but will also rob you blind, and Microsoft is the gross kid who is trying to impress you with the monstrously long stringy booger it found up its nose.

Of the three I like Nintendo the best, if only it could stop staring at amazement at its hands and do something functional...

These are my options?! Screw this, if anyone needs me I'll be playing outside.
 
2013-06-14 07:30:29 AM
digistil
Really. A corporation the size of Sony has so many cogs, I think it's foolish to paint with such a broad brush. Simply because someone that works at Sony works in IT, doesn't label them as responsible for the gross incompetence of a few.

You do realize the whole point of a corporation is to remove individual responsibility and assign that responsibility to the collective unit as a whole, yes?

That's the way this works. The owners can't be held personally responsible but the company's reputation is fair game.
 
2013-06-14 07:32:24 AM

digistil: Really. A corporation the size of Sony has so many cogs, I think it's foolish to paint with such a broad brush. Simply because someone that works at Sony works in IT, doesn't label them as responsible for the gross incompetence of a few.

Also, I wouldn't categorize (what I believe you're referring to) as a second hack. It was a (very short lived) exploit that allowed someone to do the initial password reset (required after the first hack) of someone else's PSN account if they knew the email address and DoB of said account. I'm not discounting it's severity, but it was in now way like the prior hack.

The reality is these sorts of issues tend to result in the corporation's given incompetence becoming a strength, due to it being elevated to a very high priority for the longer term.


Nah I'm referencing various entities operating under the name 'Sony' that got hacked in quick succession back in 2011, Sony on a whole looks woefully incompetent when it comes to IT.  Sorry Sony spokesman but the horses are already gone, no need to try and claim the barn doors are closed.  It doesn't matter.  If you don't remember all these events let me google that for you http://www.pcworld.com/article/229351/sony_hacked_again_how_not_to_do _ network_security.html

(I was just referencing PSN & the sony pictures, didn't even realize there were more, *LOL*, Sony's ITS is shiat)
 
2013-06-14 07:38:08 AM

StopLurkListen: "Always on camera" + minors + game console in bedroom = SUPERBIGBADCLASSACTIONLAWSUIT COMING MICROSOFT'S WAY.  Ain't no EULA gonna sterilize Microsoft from that one.


upload.wikimedia.org
*eagerly awaits his XBox One to arrive*
 
2013-06-14 07:40:35 AM

Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.


That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.
 
2013-06-14 07:48:47 AM

redmid17: OgreMagi: firefly212:
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement

True, but customer pressure can make a difference.  Maybe not with EA since they are total assholes, but other game companies will see the backlash and have second thoughts about DRM.

PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

Again, that will depend upon the game company.  Some games will be worth a subscription, especially if they are constantly adding new content with that subscription.  Games that add nothing from month to month will die.

And since I've made it known I wvork for SCEA, I have to say this:

My statements are my personal opinion and do not reflect company policy, blah, blah, blah.

Note.  SCEA is very good about employees making comments online.  We can say anything we want so long as we don't reveal trade secrets and we make it clear it's our personal opinion.  So I'll be good so I don't get hauled in front of the legal department .... Except there's this one uber hot chick in legal who always wears fishnet stockings that I wouldn't mind hooking up with ...  Oops.  *sigh*  Another visit from HR is in my future.

Well don't stop. If you're already going to HR, we might as well get more details.


pics would be helpful as well.
 
2013-06-14 07:51:00 AM

Shedim: It's apparently called "XBox recently divorced" in Japan due to a naming/linguistic quirk.


Considering how many gamers are leaving MS for Sony, it's eerily appropriate.
 
2013-06-14 08:14:58 AM

jack21221: For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.


Hell probably more.  And by the time the Xbone does come out in those countries, everybody who wanted a next gen console will already have a PS4 or just gone with a gaming pc.
 
2013-06-14 08:20:00 AM
Another reason I will be getting a ps4 is that it is confirmed to be region free, just like the ps3. I live in a foreign country most of the year, and it is great to be able to buy games locally for my American ps3. Whereas if I had a 360, I would either be stuck with the games I brought, or I would have to buy a local system. I might actually buy a Russian ps4 when it launches, because fark it, it will work just fine when I come back to America
 
2013-06-14 08:22:06 AM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the money for Sony keeps on pourin' in.
 
2013-06-14 08:27:35 AM
Microsoft seems bent on killing each cash cow ...

One by one.

I think their problem is "business engineers" who understand project management but not marketing.
They're really good at figuring out how to "lock you in" but dont seem to understand their consumer.

So they have teams of people who figure out what people will want without asking them, when the reality is that you need to do some of bot

They prematurely abandoned the mouse for the touchscreen, now its the internet box instead of a portable game....
 
2013-06-14 08:27:58 AM

the_sidewinder: This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


What's this? A voice of reason and truth? BEGONE, DEMON!!!
 
2013-06-14 08:29:20 AM
All other things aside, the lack of backwards compatibility is the nail in the coffin for me. Why pay 100 more for an xbox when I'm going to lose my current games either way? A Kinect I had no interest in before and now actively do not want?
 
2013-06-14 08:36:37 AM

jack21221: Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.

That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.


Koreans will play themselves to death, for cripe's sake.  I just don't understand what Microsoft is gaining out of this "always online" deal.  If you factor in the amount of people that shuts out, how does what MS is getting out of it (whatever that is) outweigh all that lost revenue?
 
2013-06-14 08:48:05 AM

digistil: In other XBone news, you can shut down everyone's XBone via multiplayer and party chat:

"If someone on Xbox Live party chat says "Xbox Off" will all of their Xboxes turn off?" I asked, and got an answer.

[i.imgur.com image 640x1136]


Source:  http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1gb0l5/if_someone_on_xbox_liv e _party_chat_says_xbox_off/


This is totally realistic.  It is like how whenever I use Kinect voice commands now it interacts with my friend's xbox's as well when we are on voice chat.
 
2013-06-14 08:49:28 AM

jack21221: China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy).


I'm with you on the rest, but I think game consoles are still banned in China.
 
2013-06-14 08:50:20 AM

Electric_Banana: jack21221: Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.

That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.

Koreans will play themselves to death, for cripe's sake.  I just don't understand what Microsoft is gaining out of this "always online" deal.  If you factor in the amount of people that shuts out, how does what MS is getting out of it (whatever that is) outweigh all that lost revenue?


I don't give a rat's ass about console gaming, but that's the part I don't understand about this. What does Microsoft get out of an always online requirement?

/I understand the piracy argument on PC -- though Diablo 3 was the most dissapointing $60 I've spent largely because I couldn't play the damn thing if I took the wrong day off work -- but consoles? I don't see the benifit for Microsoft.
 
2013-06-14 08:56:55 AM

degenerate-afro: Begoggle: Someothermonkey: [www.goodgame.hr image 542x416]

[i.imgur.com image 539x433]

[abload.de image 500x333]

[imageshack.us image 794x855] [i.imgur.com image 574x799]
[i.imgur.com image 850x904]

Don Mattrick says deal with it

The region thing is probably the last thing 99.99% of people care about.
I can't play my Xbox in Uganda?  OUTRAGE!!!

As mentioned in the last thread Military personnel?

Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.  Here are the launch countries:
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Brazil
• Canada
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Ireland
• Italy
• Mexico
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Russia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• United Kingdom
• United States

Spain but no Portugal?
Brazil, but not Venezuela or Peru?
No Jamaica?
No Chile?

Heck, they managed to do Austria, Germany, and Russia, but not Poland.  I'm not even talking about places like South Sudan or Laos.  When your launch doesn't take into account South Korea and Japan, you are not thinking properly.  Those are places that are notoriously hard to "come from behind" at.  Especially when your presence in that region is already tenuous.

 
2013-06-14 08:57:48 AM
Wow, these guys are just trolling us now, right?
 
2013-06-14 09:11:21 AM

Electric_Banana: jack21221: Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.

That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.

Koreans will play themselves to death, for cripe's sake.  I just don't understand what Microsoft is gaining out of this "always online" deal.  If you factor in the amount of people that shuts out, how does what MS is getting out of it (whatever that is) outweigh all that lost revenue?


They've cut out the largest growing consumer bases on the plant with China, India, and SE Asia. In the US they have cut off people in the military, expats, and anyone with shoddy internet.

My Comcast connection is usually good but will randomly slow to a crawl every once in a while. Will I still get to use it when this happen? Better question, why take a $500.gamble on it?

Businesses generally want to grow their consumer base not shrink it.
 
2013-06-14 09:15:23 AM
 
2013-06-14 09:15:27 AM
Steam and PSN have similar terms, adopted some years ago.
 
2013-06-14 09:29:38 AM

sendtodave: optikeye: It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care.

Is this a theme lately?

Most people are ignorant or apathetic, so they deserve to be screwed over by whoever can?


Well, duh.  How else do you reach the Randian utopia other than stepping all over everyone else?
 
2013-06-14 09:38:37 AM
*ahem*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network_outage#Change_to_T er ms_and_Conditions

If the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance, to the fullest extent allowed by law, any trial by jury.

From two farking years ago.
 
2013-06-14 09:40:54 AM

firefly212: You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.

Umm, even in the PS3 contract, right now it says that you cant file a class action.
PS4= DRM by EA instead of MS, like that's an improvement
PS4= subscription only for online gaming, like XBL

frankly, the more I see of this console war, the more I love my PC.


I am part of the PSN+ and I have to admit... I have only paid them $100 for 2 years. They, Sony, have given me at this point well over $1000 in free games that I actually enjoyed playing. And most of those were some of their top titles. If they keep that going, then it would be worth while to get the PSN+. And the other thing about EAs DRM... Then dont buy an EA game. Simple as that. It is not as bad as being forced into a DRM by the actual console. And I hate to tell you, but PC is just one big DRM (assuming you are running Windows).
 
2013-06-14 09:42:36 AM

Do you know who Garblox is: jack21221: China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy).

I'm with you on the rest, but I think game consoles are still banned in China.


Since when is it up to Microsoft to enforce Chinese law?

http://www.techinasia.com/sony-won-nextgen-console-war-country-conso le s-illegal/

"Game consoles may be technically illegal in China, but there's a vast gray market for the machines, and anyone who wants a console can buy one quite easily at electronics shops in any major city. They may be gray market imports, but most of them were legitimately purchased in other territories like Hong Kong, so theydo represent actual sales for the gaming companies. "
 
2013-06-14 10:09:37 AM

OgreMagi: Keep a child around to click on "I agree".  Minors can not legally enter into a contract.  Be sure to leave the room when he/she does it.


People call me weird for having one around just in case.
 
2013-06-14 10:19:05 AM
There's some joke a out kinect voice controls and "Xbone my ass"
 
rpm
2013-06-14 10:34:00 AM

the_sidewinder: This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


It's enforceable, it's passed SCotUS, that's when everyone started added those terms.

One thing Sony gives you that MS doesn't is the chance to opt out of those terms. You had to mail it in, but I did so. Also with nice little language that it applies to all future changes.
 
rpm
2013-06-14 10:34:59 AM

degenerate-afro: Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.


Major problem? 360 is getting its ass handed to it by PS4 in Japan. It's a niche market for them.
 
rpm
2013-06-14 10:35:39 AM

rpm: degenerate-afro: Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.

Major problem? 360 is getting its ass handed to it by PS4 in Japan. It's a niche market for them.


Err PS3. I hate mornings.
 
2013-06-14 10:36:44 AM

foo monkey: I'm not buying an Xbone.  How fail is it, that MSFT didn't think people would call it an "Xbone?"


You'd think they'd have learned from mSexchange years ago. Maybe they forgot.
 
2013-06-14 10:51:11 AM
It seems to me as if Microsoft is taking the one brand item they have been successful in building a loyal following with and are trying to turn it into some sort of iTunes/Apple clone business model. I think eventually Microsoft will try to tie all devices together through the X-Box branding; their Windows phones, Surface tablets, PC operating systems, and everything else they come up with in the future like the portable X-Box music player (which probably will be a rebranded Zune) or an "X-Box TV".
 
2013-06-14 10:52:50 AM

The Voice of Doom: optikeye
It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care


Well, once the first videos of them playing games in the buff appear on the internet, they might start to care.

Shiat, I should have paid attention to the news; hadn't heard that about the cameras until this week.
Someone else already registered "xboners.com" three weeks ago.


I am looking forward to the flood of new Microsoft branded amateur pron.
 
2013-06-14 11:09:47 AM

rpm: degenerate-afro: Also Launch does not include Japan, which is a major problem.

Major problem? 360 is getting its ass handed to it by PS4 in Japan. It's a niche market for them.


They are hurting the Japanese companies that partnered with them on exclusives.  Companies like 5pb. Cave and IdeaFactory.  Why go through all of the trouble to make inroads in Japan.  Sink tons of money into a long term advertisement campaign, then kill off all of that hard work when it looked like you might be able to take advantage of those efforts in the next generation?

I guess you could make the argument that the best selling 360 exclusive, Idolm@ster, isn't really settnig the world on fire or challenging Pokemon for supremacy, but it still seems like a problem if you can't secure at least a bit of loyalty in a region that develops so many of your games.
 
2013-06-14 11:11:02 AM

tumy4me: The Voice of Doom: optikeye
It's not going to matter. Most people except "HARD CORE" don't give a crap about evasive agreements or always on camera in the house...because their either don't know or don't care


Well, once the first videos of them playing games in the buff appear on the internet, they might start to care.

Shiat, I should have paid attention to the news; hadn't heard that about the cameras until this week.
Someone else already registered "xboners.com" three weeks ago.

I am looking forward to the flood of new Microsoft branded amateur pron.


Unfortunately it will be kiddie pr0n of guys teabagging each other after sniping session on COD or Halo.
 
2013-06-14 11:14:26 AM

digistil: As I just posted, I'm pretty sure that's a violation of EU law and has already been tested by a major corporation (and they failed). What's surprising to me is MS thinks Luxemburg (one of the wealthiest per-capita nations on the planet) isn't worthy to be XBoned.


Microsoft already confirmed that it won't work in Poland at launch.
 
2013-06-14 11:15:51 AM

rpm: It's enforceable, it's passed SCotUS, that's when everyone started added those terms.


The language is enforceable in contracts, but it is still up in the air whether or not EULAs are enforceable contracts

/I hope someone tries and succeeds
 
rpm
2013-06-14 11:16:24 AM

degenerate-afro: They are hurting the Japanese companies that partnered with them on exclusives.  Companies like 5pb. Cave and IdeaFactory.  Why go through all of the trouble to make inroads in Japan.  Sink tons of money into a long term advertisement campaign, then kill off all of that hard work when it looked like you might be able to take advantage of those efforts in the next generation?


MS has a record of screwing their partners (PlaysForSure anyone?), so why does it surprise you?
 
2013-06-14 11:31:40 AM

digistil: Really. A corporation the size of Sony has so many cogs, I think it's foolish to paint with such a broad brush. Simply because someone that works at Sony works in IT, doesn't label them as responsible for the gross incompetence of a few.


It is foolish. I used to work for a corporation not unlike Sony in its scope and organization, and the truth of it was that a one-man systems team in one division was more effective than the 8-person IT team in another.

Nonetheless, it's what's going to happen when he sends out resumes for his next career move and they see "System Administrator, Sony Computer Entertainment of America".

The perception's not accurate, but it exists.  I'm sure mail clerks and receptionists at Arthur Andersen and Lehman Brothers had to deal with the same crap once they were back on the job market.
 
2013-06-14 11:32:09 AM

ThatGuyGreg: *ahem*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network_outage#Change_to_T er ms_and_Conditions

If the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance, to the fullest extent allowed by law, any trial by jury.

From two farking years ago.


Got anything recent?  Cause you know... a 2000 point stock drop, a combined loss of over $10 billion, and a new CEO might change the way they do shiat.
 
2013-06-14 11:34:45 AM

degenerate-afro: digistil: As I just posted, I'm pretty sure that's a violation of EU law and has already been tested by a major corporation (and they failed). What's surprising to me is MS thinks Luxemburg (one of the wealthiest per-capita nations on the planet) isn't worthy to be XBoned.

Microsoft already confirmed that it won't work in Poland at launch.


Yeah, and CD Projekt Red weren't too happy about that, either.

'What, we're putting Witcher 3 on your system, and our home country can't play it?  WTF is wrong with you?!'
 
rpm
2013-06-14 11:38:01 AM

quiotu: Got anything recent?  Cause you know... a 2000 point stock drop, a combined loss of over $10 billion, and a new CEO might change the way they do shiat.


They still have class action waiver in the EULA dated March 2013.
 
2013-06-14 01:36:47 PM

captainktainer: the_sidewinder: captainktainer: I agree, but I'm afraid you're wrong about not being enforceable. In Prima Paint Corp v. Flood & Conklin Mfg. Co, the Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause must be respected first, and in Compucredit Corp. v. Greenwood, the Supreme Court held that the binding arbitration clauses authorized by the Federal Arbitration Act are sacrosanct.

So would that indicate that should arbitration fail, a class action could be started? How big of a hurdle would that be?

The current understanding is that because the arbitration is binding, you can't challenge the results unless there's evidence of gross negligence. It's sickening, and it's one of the many reasons neither Scalia nor Thomas should have been allowed on the Court - and why the Federal Arbitration Act should never have been approved. Allowing customers to sign away their rights in a boilerplate agreement is... beyond wrong.


Well that is why you should attend the arbitration hearings yourself and bring a firearm. Make it known that you are not afraid of going to jail, but they should be afraid of dieing. If corporations are going to act like the mob then we have to act like my grandparents did when the mob tried to get them to pay protection money and that is declare and I quote my grandfather "You can do that, but there will be blood, shiat and guts all over the farking street before this is done."
 
2013-06-14 01:41:22 PM

TeamEd: Electric_Banana: jack21221: Begoggle: I said 99.99% of people don't care, and it's the last thing of their many problems to be concerned about.

That's complete bullshiat. The "supported countries" don't make up 99.99% of the population. China is a huge emerging video game market, and the XBone will not work there at all (until Microsoft decides they're worthy). No Japan? No South Korea? Those are gaming MECCAS (and you can't play in Mecca either, Saudi Arabia is not on the list. Those rich princes won't be able to play). Half of Europe is not included at launch. How do you explain that? Why can a German or Austrian play, but not somebody from Liechtenstein, which is directly in between them? Spain, but not Portugal?

For something like 20% of the people (very rough ballpark estimate, based on number of gamers in China primarily), This is the FIRST thing on their minds which will prevent them from buying the system.

So, even if we don't talk about military personnel, there are far more than 0.01% of worldwide gamers for which this will be their primary concern. Your number is complete bullshiat.

Koreans will play themselves to death, for cripe's sake.  I just don't understand what Microsoft is gaining out of this "always online" deal.  If you factor in the amount of people that shuts out, how does what MS is getting out of it (whatever that is) outweigh all that lost revenue?

I don't give a rat's ass about console gaming, but that's the part I don't understand about this. What does Microsoft get out of an always online requirement?

/I understand the piracy argument on PC -- though Diablo 3 was the most dissapointing $60 I've spent largely because I couldn't play the damn thing if I took the wrong day off work -- but consoles? I don't see the benifit for Microsoft.


Marketing data. The nasty secret is they are hoping to cash in with marketing data as you stream Netflixs, Hulu, HBO Go, etc... through the box, use it for an internet browser, and of course a gaming device. They want to become the centerpiece of your home entertainment system and leverage that to sell your data to other company.
 
2013-06-14 01:42:22 PM

DeArmondVI: thankfully Microsoft builds quality products, and this is just to protect them from vulture trial lawyers that collect 80 plus percent from payouts from frivolous suits


*cough* red ring *cough*

Sorry had something in my throat.
 
2013-06-14 02:38:26 PM
Thats it what ever infinitesimal bit of a desire I might have had to buy the thing is well and truly squashed.

Yes i know Sony has the same thing but they have not had the same history of knowingly selling a defective system.
 
2013-06-14 03:25:11 PM

optikeye: firefly212: it would default to federal law, which says that you've got to honor the arbitration unless you can prove gross negligence in the arbitration itself.

There's nothing in the EULA that mentioned Arbitration. You are confusing signing a EULA with arbitration. Those are two wildly differently things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration

In Arbitration it stills goes to court and the other side will have someone--an arbitrators  to be defend their position. Again there's nothing about arbitrators  in the Xbox agreement.


Incorrect. An arbitration does not go to court; it goes to an arbiter. When the defending party chooses the arbiter, this tends to be a subsidiary of the corporation itselfor another party friendly to the defending party. This is why arbitrations are simply tossed put by the arbiter in, without hyperbole, 99.99% of cases (yes, one in ten thousand)

tl;dr version: Microsoft can legally mail you an empty box, keep your money, and there is squat you can do about it.
 
2013-06-14 04:12:54 PM
Any smarty-pants paralegal likes here on FARK that would like to write up a consumer friendly EULA that companies have to "accept" by receiving payments from me?  Something along the lines of, "by accepting my payment, you agree to allow me to pursue any legal recourse against your company, bypassing all arbitration, as I find necessary".

Maybe we need to fight this head on and do to them exactly what they do to us.
 
2013-06-14 04:19:18 PM

captainktainer: the_sidewinder: captainktainer: I agree, but I'm afraid you're wrong about not being enforceable. In Prima Paint Corp v. Flood & Conklin Mfg. Co, the Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause must be respected first, and in Compucredit Corp. v. Greenwood, the Supreme Court held that the binding arbitration clauses authorized by the Federal Arbitration Act are sacrosanct.

So would that indicate that should arbitration fail, a class action could be started? How big of a hurdle would that be?

The current understanding is that because the arbitration is binding, you can't challenge the results unless there's evidence of gross negligence. It's sickening, and it's one of the many reasons neither Scalia nor Thomas should have been allowed on the Court - and why the Federal Arbitration Act should never have been approved. Allowing customers to sign away their rights in a boilerplate agreement is... beyond wrong.




I can't wait for the return of slavery.
 
2013-06-14 05:52:47 PM
Sim Tree:
tl;dr version: Microsoft can legally mail you an empty box, keep your money, and there is squat you can do about it.

Well, this isn't quite true, because if you don't have the console, you haven't turned it on to agree to the EULA. You're not the End User yet for the product  you don't own.
 
2013-06-14 07:01:18 PM

You Idiots: Probably the nail in the coffin for me on this one. Looking at PS4 now for sure. Been on Xbl for 10 years. Goodbye Bill. RIP.


PSN did this exact same thing right after they got hacked and leaked my CC data to whoever got into their servers... the idea that they aren't gonna keep doing it is just silly.
 
2013-06-14 07:29:30 PM

OgreMagi: hardinparamedic: OgreMagi: Thank you for helping to pay my salary.

You're welcome. I work hard to help people on Welfare. :)

Don't annoy me.  I can have your Playstation disabled remotely.

/not really, but I've used that threat successfully on my younger family members


I can disable Playstations remotely.

//Need a clean line of sight, but I can do it...
 
2013-06-14 08:22:53 PM

the_sidewinder: This is neither new (it's been in their EULAs for a while) nor is it likely enforceable

/PlayStaion Network also has this in it's terms
//As does Steam


This. There are plenty of idiotic decisions made with the Xbox One (DRM lunacy, Kinect requirement, going with GDDR3 memory)...but this is run-of-the-mill boilerplate stuff that isn't really enforcible.
 
2013-06-14 08:29:06 PM
If you own the Xbox 360 you're already under this agreement, it's been that way for almost two years now. PlayStation does this too.  This is just people making a big deal over nothing.
 
rpm
2013-06-14 11:40:14 PM

ReapTheChaos: If you own the Xbox 360 you're already under this agreement, it's been that way for almost two years now. PlayStation does this too.  This is just people making a big deal over nothing.


Not quite nothing. The 360 didn't get the extended warranty and the RRoD fixed until threat of class action lawsuit. So, why would you want to get new hardware from MS when the only thing that caused them to fix the last generation isn't available now?
 
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