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(CNN)   Xbox One's big advantage? "It's digital" says Microsoft's Chief Marketing Officer, Mr. Constipated Sherlock. Definitely an advantage over the all analog PS4   (cnn.com) divider line 457
    More: Fail, Microsoft, Xbox Live Arcade, marketing manager  
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9585 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jun 2013 at 3:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-13 10:40:41 PM

frepnog: Sgt.Zim: t's not optional for Modern Warfare 2, which is where I was introduced to it, and gave up on it.

I suppose you should have been playing it on Xbox Live, where it was meant to be played then.

/the only games I have in my steam account that are also console games are Left 4 Dead and Portal.


I really enjoyed it on ps3. However that last cod really really sucked, and I'm not too psyched about ghost
 
2013-06-13 10:53:56 PM

skullkrusher: that was awesome but Dwarf Fortress sucks :)


I disagree.  I will state my reasons.

1.) As far as gameplay over graphics go, there is no higher standard.
2.) While it does not have a learning curve so much as a learning precipice, the challenge has its rewards, and there are even guides out now that'll hold your hand as you take your first dwarfy steps.
3.) The brothers who make this game aren't doing it at boardroom direction.  They are unconcerned with what is popular and what is considered as "what works now".  For them, it is a labor of love.  Nothing else.
4.) There is always, ALWAYS a new way of doing something mundane.  Sometimes it'll work.  Sometimes your tanner will lose his mind, tear the arm off an ox, and beat his fellow dwarves with it.  Yes, this can and has happened.
5.) You can load one thousand spears into a minecart, and rig the track so it crashes head on with another stationary cart, catapulting all one thousand spears at horrifying speed, impaling everything in the way.
6.) You can kill a bronze colossus by beaning it with a fluffy wambler, if you're good enough.
7.) You never have to press "A" to save the industry.
8.) Each dwarf has his or her own AI and will react to things in differing, sometimes amusing ways.  I had a dragoon militia dwarf who always left his foe alive, but wouldn't leave until he put out his foe's left eye.  Yes, always the left eye.  He fought a foe once that only had one central eye.  He stood there for most of a day, thinking.  Then he put the eye out and then finally left.
9.) Elfin caravans bring you cloth and wood to trade, and throw a hissy fit if you try to trade them something made from wood.  Also, you can kill them.  Also, you can lure them into a trap, flood a room with magma, encasing them in obsidian.
10.) You make and place a cage trap.  You catch a grizzly bear.  You domesticate it.  Then train it into a war bear.  Then you re-cage it, put the cage into a minecart, and with the flip of a level you rocket that cage right into the midst of a human platoon during a siege.  The cage breaks on impact and the war bear is loose.  Seven humans die before the bear does.
11.) Your dwarf can choose a pet.  Except cats.  Cats choose their own "owners", and hilariously they tend to pick dwarves that hate cats.  Yes, cats are dicks.
 
2013-06-13 11:07:22 PM
On further consideration...

12.) Combat is modelled down so minutely that calculates the damage the skin, tendon, muscle, bone, or nerve of a single finger on your foe takes.
13.) Everything is procedurally generated.  Each world you make has a history, where cities rise and fall.  It can make some awesome stories.  (click show-spoilers at end of Boobies)
14.) Your dwarves have their own mind.  Sometimes those minds are weird, and express their ideas in weird ways.  Engravers pick their own images to put into walls, which you can examine.  Sometimes, it's the death of a historical figure important to them.  Sometimes they'll commemorate the savage beating of a grudge at the hands of your cities' "Hammerer".  ... and sometimes, you'll get buckets, dwarves around buckets, and screaming dwarves standing around buckets.
15.) It doesn't matter where you cite your fortress.  You can support yourself with industry somehow.  90% of the stuff you can make you won't make in every fortress.  The options are there for differing environs.
16.) Even when your fortress fails (and it will), the noteable events that happened there are added to the lore and your next fortress might have a wall engraved with the electing of a mayor of the old town, or a marriage between two noteable dwarves engraved on an item.
17.) Tantrum spirals.  What's a tantrum spiral?  Let's say you have a fortress with a population of one hundred and fifty-eight dwarves.  One is unhappy for whatever reason, and he demolishes a statue.  Now, defacing someone else's work is a crime.  Your dwarf is convicted and sentanced to five whacks delivered by your Hammerer.  (Yes, that's dwarf justice.  No jail times.  Only number of whacks.)  He breaks a few ribs, and now he's seriously pissed.  He fights with the guards and he's killed.  Suddenly the family of the ex-dwarf start tantruming, and start a brawl.  Someone's pet cavy sow gets killed.  They tantrum.  A huge brawl breaks out in your dining hall.  The guards move in and someone dies.  They start tantruming.  Five minutes later your fortress of one hundred and fifty-eight dwarves becomes a blood soaked hellhole populated by seven dwarves and one hundred and fifty-one corpses.  Four are catatonic and die of dehydration.  Two run around gibbering in madness, and the last one decides now is a good time to make some soap.
18.) LOSING IS FUN!
 
2013-06-13 11:09:12 PM

fireclown: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: I prefer my video games in punch card format.

That lacks the warmth and gentile hiss of cassette drive loaded gaming.


Personally I like my games on 8 track that way it forces me to finish the game before I can start again. That way i get my money out of it

/xbox is done for
 
2013-06-13 11:30:19 PM

Clutch2013: Burning_Monk: Good news everyone!

Yeah, fark Microsoft. They're doing an exceptionally effective job of pushing me back into Sony's corner - a spot I'm not completely sure I want to be in.


Sony will lube you up, MS just wants to drysmash your shiatbox.
 
2013-06-13 11:43:09 PM

Cpl.D: On further consideration...

12.) Combat is modelled down so minutely that calculates the damage the skin, tendon, muscle, bone, or nerve of a single finger on your foe takes.
13.) Everything is procedurally generated.  Each world you make has a history, where cities rise and fall.  It can make some awesome stories.  (click show-spoilers at end of Boobies)
14.) Your dwarves have their own mind.  Sometimes those minds are weird, and express their ideas in weird ways.  Engravers pick their own images to put into walls, which you can examine.  Sometimes, it's the death of a historical figure important to them.  Sometimes they'll commemorate the savage beating of a grudge at the hands of your cities' "Hammerer".  ... and sometimes, you'll get buckets, dwarves around buckets, and screaming dwarves standing around buckets.
15.) It doesn't matter where you cite your fortress.  You can support yourself with industry somehow.  90% of the stuff you can make you won't make in every fortress.  The options are there for differing environs.
16.) Even when your fortress fails (and it will), the noteable events that happened there are added to the lore and your next fortress might have a wall engraved with the electing of a mayor of the old town, or a marriage between two noteable dwarves engraved on an item.
17.) Tantrum spirals.  What's a tantrum spiral?  Let's say you have a fortress with a population of one hundred and fifty-eight dwarves.  One is unhappy for whatever reason, and he demolishes a statue.  Now, defacing someone else's work is a crime.  Your dwarf is convicted and sentanced to five whacks delivered by your Hammerer.  (Yes, that's dwarf justice.  No jail times.  Only number of whacks.)  He breaks a few ribs, and now he's seriously pissed.  He fights with the guards and he's killed.  Suddenly the family of the ex-dwarf start tantruming, and start a brawl.  Someone's pet cavy sow gets killed.  They tantrum.  A huge brawl breaks out in your dining hall.  The guards mo ...


I don't have the patience to learn this absurd game but I enjoyed the farking hell out of your 2 posts on the topic. Well done, sir
 
2013-06-13 11:50:07 PM
skullkrusher: I don't have the patience to learn this absurd game but I enjoyed the farking hell out of your 2 posts on the topic.  Well done, sir

You do have the patience, and yes it is absurd.  But absurd in the most awesome way possible.  There's a link to a book on amazon.com that teaches you how to get up and running.  I bought it, despite having played Dwarf Fortress for well over a year, and it still taught me some stuff.  Alternatively, there are free options, such as this list.

I don't play Dwarf Fortress to win.  There is no winning and cannot be.  There are only varying delays towards the inevitable loss.  The reason I DO play is because even after a year I'm still surprised how things turn out, and especially enjoy seeing how the inevitable end comes.  Immolation by dragon?  Infestation by vampire dwarves?  Poisoning?  Forgotten beast rampage?  Irate god that some crossbow wielding dwarf shot at?  Digging too greedily and too deep?  Starvation?  Trauma?  Psychosis?  Military invasion?  Military invasions?

... carp?
 
2013-06-13 11:53:46 PM
After a cursory examination, this may be a the best starter guide, as it comes with a download save so you can follow along.  And it even seems to sport a tileset.
 
2013-06-14 12:04:12 AM

Cpl.D: On further consideration...

12.) Combat is modelled down so minutely that calculates the damage the skin, tendon, muscle, bone, or nerve of a single finger on your foe takes.
13.) Everything is procedurally generated.  Each world you make has a history, where cities rise and fall.  It can make some awesome stories.  (click show-spoilers at end of Boobies)
14.) Your dwarves have their own mind.  Sometimes those minds are weird, and express their ideas in weird ways.  Engravers pick their own images to put into walls, which you can examine.  Sometimes, it's the death of a historical figure important to them.  Sometimes they'll commemorate the savage beating of a grudge at the hands of your cities' "Hammerer".  ... and sometimes, you'll get buckets, dwarves around buckets, and screaming dwarves standing around buckets.
15.) It doesn't matter where you cite your fortress.  You can support yourself with industry somehow.  90% of the stuff you can make you won't make in every fortress.  The options are there for differing environs.
16.) Even when your fortress fails (and it will), the noteable events that happened there are added to the lore and your next fortress might have a wall engraved with the electing of a mayor of the old town, or a marriage between two noteable dwarves engraved on an item.
17.) Tantrum spirals.  What's a tantrum spiral?  Let's say you have a fortress with a population of one hundred and fifty-eight dwarves.  One is unhappy for whatever reason, and he demolishes a statue.  Now, defacing someone else's work is a crime.  Your dwarf is convicted and sentanced to five whacks delivered by your Hammerer.  (Yes, that's dwarf justice.  No jail times.  Only number of whacks.)  He breaks a few ribs, and now he's seriously pissed.  He fights with the guards and he's killed.  Suddenly the family of the ex-dwarf start tantruming, and start a brawl.  Someone's pet cavy sow gets killed.  They tantrum.  A huge brawl breaks out in your dining hall.  The guards move in and someone dies.  They start tantruming.  Five minutes later your fortress of one hundred and fifty-eight dwarves becomes a blood soaked hellhole populated by seven dwarves and one hundred and fifty-one corpses.  Four are catatonic and die of dehydration.  Two run around gibbering in madness, and the last one decides now is a good time to make some soap.
18.) LOSING IS FUN!


Well, this isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

It does make an outstanding play for the top 10, though.
 
2013-06-14 12:21:44 AM
Incredible.

Microsoft wanting to center their business model around the "get paid forever" concept.

Then, trying to cross the Orwellian threshold with Kinect.

And if it wasn't bad enough, now they're trying to control what you do with the games and content you buy.

I'm so glad to be switching to Linux soon. Fark this farking farkload of shiat.
 
2013-06-14 12:37:21 AM
who the hell needs a new console when there are kids starving in Appalachia??
 
2013-06-14 12:37:55 AM

frepnog: Sgt.Zim: t's not optional for Modern Warfare 2, which is where I was introduced to it, and gave up on it.

I suppose you should have been playing it on Xbox Live, where it was meant to be played then.

/the only games I have in my steam account that are also console games are Left 4 Dead and Portal.


Yeah,  let's not turn this into a console v. PC war.  Agreed, it was written for a console, which is why the controls are all stupid.

Suffice it to say, I play on PC, and will stay here.  Steam on PC has yet to show me anything redeeming.
 
2013-06-14 01:05:14 AM
Sgt.Zim:Suffice it to say, I play on PC, and will stay here.  Steam on PC has yet to show me anything redeeming.

The sales are reason enough for me.  That, and it's nice being able to lose a computer via fire or data loss or meteor strike or something, and being able to load steam on the next computer and have all my games there. And not worry about scratched discs or where the hell I put the game keys.
 
2013-06-14 01:16:29 AM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: who the hell needs a new console when there are kids starving in Appalachia??


Well I need something to do to take my mind off their plight
 
2013-06-14 01:30:36 AM
i will be buying the ps4. that is all.
 
2013-06-14 01:32:09 AM

Cpl.D: Sgt.Zim:Suffice it to say, I play on PC, and will stay here.  Steam on PC has yet to show me anything redeeming.

The sales are reason enough for me.  That, and it's nice being able to lose a computer via fire or data loss or meteor strike or something, and being able to load steam on the next computer and have all my games there. And not worry about scratched discs or where the hell I put the game keys.


Trade-offs are trade-offs for a reason.

I'd rather risk losing the physical media than be permanently tied and dependent on a third party, and their whim.
 
2013-06-14 02:02:11 AM

theBigBigEye: Cpl.D: Sgt.Zim:Suffice it to say, I play on PC, and will stay here.  Steam on PC has yet to show me anything redeeming.

The sales are reason enough for me.  That, and it's nice being able to lose a computer via fire or data loss or meteor strike or something, and being able to load steam on the next computer and have all my games there. And not worry about scratched discs or where the hell I put the game keys.

Trade-offs are trade-offs for a reason.

I'd rather risk losing the physical media than be permanently tied and dependent on a third party, and their whim.


See my other mini-rant about SaaS ... Or, in other words:  "This".
 
2013-06-14 02:12:50 AM
Well, I can see if they had a track record of malfeasance.  But I don't know a single person who has had a problem with Steam.  Do we pitch them under the bus just because of something they might do?
 
2013-06-14 03:58:29 AM
The fact that Microsoft was one of the companies directly involved with the PRISM program...
The fact that the Xbox One requires a camera to view you before you can use the system...
The fact that the camera can't be shut off, other than completely powering off the system which is discouraged...
The fact that Microsoft will require you to be online 24/7...
The fact that Microsoft filed for patents to snoop around your room, identify objects, and specifically advertise to you...
The fact that Microsoft intends to include ads as a basic part of their system...
The fact that ex Microsoft execs work for DHS...

So, basically it's a device to watch you in your house, 24/7, recording information about what you have, what your heart rate is when interacting with said objects, and sharing that all with the NSA.

Monkeyboy finally found a novel revenue stream!
 
2013-06-14 04:34:19 AM

Egoy3k: Pitabred: Tell me... how quickly does Comcast get to you when your Internet's out? Because I've never had them schedule anything less than a week or so out, unless you're a business customer. Who cares why it's out... it's not always restored promptly. Which is a fairly significant concern when it's got a 24 hour window. Say the Internet goes out after you head to work and you don't discover it until you get home, there's a large portion of your 24 hours eaten up, and you haven't even scheduled a repair visit, a guy who may or may not show up in the next week. Hope it's not a weekend that the outage occurred.

I don't even live in the same country as you, let alone have the same ISP as you. My ISP hasn't been down when I had power in the ten years that I have been paying for broadband.  I don't agree with the ping once every 24 hours thing. I stated up thread that it is 'bullshiat' but it's not even 10% as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.  It's a bullshiat requirement and I hope MS listens to consumers on and gets rid of it but I can completely understand why a company that lets you share your game library with your friends might want to you to call home to ensure that you don't duplicate your entire library on a friends box and then never plug in again so they have them indefinitely.




Hey look.. Somebody whose Internet connection hasn't gone down once in ten years doesn't understand why people would have a problem with having to be always on.

Moron.
 
2013-06-14 05:11:13 AM
Its funny how Microsoft thinks that having a locked down console is going to open up more options than Sony's unrestricted PS4...
 
2013-06-14 06:03:10 AM
Why are people complaining about the whole internet connection thing on the XBone? This is the 21st century! I live in America! I use Century Link and happen to live in the inner city and am fully confident in their abili

++NO CARRIER++
 
2013-06-14 08:17:54 AM

Alonjar: Hey look.. Somebody whose Internet connection hasn't gone down once in ten years doesn't understand why people would have a problem with having to be always on.

Moron.


how many people that are complaining that they don't want a console to be "always on" have had a dvr that requires a telephone line or internet connection to be plugged in at all times?
 
2013-06-14 08:31:39 AM

frepnog: Alonjar: Hey look.. Somebody whose Internet connection hasn't gone down once in ten years doesn't understand why people would have a problem with having to be always on.

Moron.

how many people that are complaining that they don't want a console to be "always on" have had a dvr that requires a telephone line or internet connection to be plugged in at all times?


With a DVR, at least you still have a physical media. With X-One here, you're practically at M$'s mercy when it comes to game content you buy. That $60 game you bought today won't be there to play from the cloud 30 years from now like, say, my NES games I grew up with.
 
2013-06-14 08:55:53 AM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: who the hell needs a new console when there are kids starving in Appalachia??


On the off chance you're not trolling...name one.

Just one.

Poverty in the US /= starvation, as a rule.
 
2013-06-14 09:15:46 AM
Everybody calm the fark down. If you don't like the "Always on" aspect of the Xbone M$ has still got you covered.

Microsoft Solution
 
2013-06-14 09:17:11 AM

theBigBigEye: With a DVR, at least you still have a physical media. With X-One here, you're practically at M$'s mercy when it comes to game content you buy. That $60 game you bought today won't be there to play from the cloud 30 years from now like, say, my NES games I grew up with.


first off - whut?

second off - i don't know.  for one thing, I don't personally really seriously play 30 year old games that often.  On the other hand, I bought Half Life at retail in 1998.  When Half Life 2 came out it included Steam (the first version) and allowed me to register my Half Life code.  It has been 15 years since Half Life came out.  I can RIGHT NOW install steam on any computer I want and the install and play Half Life.

Some of you people are really grasping at straws here.  Physical media as a delivery platform for software is dying.  There is really no getting around it.  Piracy and the secondary market have directly led to this.  Don't know what else to tell you.

I suppose you will get it when Sony starts releasing  highly anticipated first party PS4 titles as a PSN exclusives.

/no one is seriously crying about the ongoing death of the CD or DVD.  People on fark are all the time talking about how they hate plastic discs.  And yet here we are pretending that console video games are somehow different.
 
2013-06-14 09:20:09 AM

th0rr: Everybody calm the fark down. If you don't like the "Always on" aspect of the Xbone M$ has still got you covered.

Microsoft Solution


yeah we know, buy a 360.

It isn't a bad option, you know.  Stellar graphics, fantastic library of existing games, full Xbox Live support if you choose.

/this holiday season will be pretty funny.  I still expect PS3 and X360 to outsell the new consoles.
 
2013-06-14 09:35:19 AM

frepnog: th0rr: Everybody calm the fark down. If you don't like the "Always on" aspect of the Xbone M$ has still got you covered.

Microsoft Solution

yeah we know, buy a 360.

It isn't a bad option, you know.  Stellar graphics, fantastic library of existing games, full Xbox Live support if you choose.

/this holiday season will be pretty funny.  I still expect PS3 and X360 to outsell the new consoles.


You just might be right.
 
2013-06-14 09:38:06 AM

th0rr: frepnog: th0rr: Everybody calm the fark down. If you don't like the "Always on" aspect of the Xbone M$ has still got you covered.

Microsoft Solution

yeah we know, buy a 360.

It isn't a bad option, you know.  Stellar graphics, fantastic library of existing games, full Xbox Live support if you choose.

/this holiday season will be pretty funny.  I still expect PS3 and X360 to outsell the new consoles.

You just might be right.


some of the best games ever made are coming out on the current platforms.  Why WOULDN'T they sell well?

/launch titles for new consoles almost always suck.  Take RYSE for instance.  It looks fantastic.  It also looks like it plays like total crap.
 
2013-06-14 09:44:06 AM
I currently own a Xbox and a Xbox 360. Yes the old Xbox still gets some use. The thing I don't get is how the these added features to the new Xbox console is in any way a benefit. As a straight up consumer I just see something that is more expensive with a lot of unnecessary added restrictions. Some of which can affect the ability to use the console at all under certain conditions. Conditions that can easily arise.

Since I don't have any specific love for any brand exclusive titles this whole thing is a no go. It seems M$ might want to reconsider putting their corporate desires over consumer needs. Just saying.
 
2013-06-14 10:09:29 AM
A guy at the office is thrilled by the Xbox One AND the Playstation 4. He's getting both. He's buying the Xbox One just because of the new Killer Instinct game. All the talk about always on internet reselling games activation blah blah... he just wants the new Killer Instinct game!  He doesn't even make that much money, he just really likes that game. Just goes to show, there is a market demo that doesn't care about trading games and internet privacy and will throw money at the TV for a thing they know they like. Go figure.

 Myself, I'm saving money for the Occulus RIFT and a complete  PC rebuild when Star Citizen comes out.
 
2013-06-14 10:22:32 AM

thecpt: remus: But is it Hi Fi?

It's American hifi

/too stoned
//Nintendo


Well played sir, well played.  You recieve one internets.
 
2013-06-14 10:38:19 AM
CSB:
During my last deployment, my 360 sh*t the bed. I bought a PS3 and never looked back. During that same deployment, I bought Dawn of War II. Couldn't play without being connected to Games for Windows. I emailed them from my office and explained my situation. Their response was "Thanks for contacting us. You're required to be online to play." We are deploying again next year, and I will be bringing my PS4 with me. Microsoft can suck it.
 
2013-06-14 10:40:24 AM

drop: "An error occured cancelling automatic renewal "

(navigates to support, only option is "receive a phone call."  Clicks link)

404.

[img.pandawhale.com image 640x480]


Yeah, anyone who's ever gone through the hell that is trying to cancel your Xbox LIVE account will probably have a different opinion of the service.
 
2013-06-14 10:50:14 AM

Slybri: He's buying the Xbox One just because of the new Killer Instinct game. All the talk about always on internet reselling games activation blah blah... he just wants the new Killer Instinct game!


I....  "hangs head in shame" I want it to.  The Killer Instinct fanboy in me squealed like a little girl when I saw it.

/wouldn't mind having the "DAY ONE" achievement either.

//bastards know how to hook me

///seriously want to play Infamous Second Son as well, tho.  I mean like "SHUTUPANDTAKEMYMONEY.jpg".
 
2013-06-14 10:51:36 AM

DiabloCanyonOne: Yeah, anyone who's ever gone through the hell that is trying to cancel your Xbox LIVE account will probably have a different opinion of the service.


i never had any trouble cancelling.
 
2013-06-14 11:29:20 AM
Games should go back to cartridges.  Then I could still blow into them and be the only one that knows how to get games to work on my XboxOne.

I own a 360.  Not gonna upgrade for at least a year.  I don't care about the online checking or used game crap.  Used games are hardly ever that much cheaper than a new one.  I don't "steal" games, so I have nothing to hide.

For me, it's gonna be about exclusive games for each system.  IMO, I think Sony is winning out in this area.  Last of Us looks so damn awesome and I can't play it!  Plenty of time before now and when I go to buy for both systems to make changes.

Steam requires you to check in too.  It's just every 30 days, if I recall correctly.  Xbox would be wise to do something like that, not everyday.

We'll see.
 
2013-06-14 11:39:34 AM

frepnog: theBigBigEye: With a DVR, at least you still have a physical media. With X-One here, you're practically at M$'s mercy when it comes to game content you buy. That $60 game you bought today won't be there to play from the cloud 30 years from now like, say, my NES games I grew up with.

first off - whut?

second off - i don't know.  for one thing, I don't personally really seriously play 30 year old games that often.  On the other hand, I bought Half Life at retail in 1998.  When Half Life 2 came out it included Steam (the first version) and allowed me to register my Half Life code.  It has been 15 years since Half Life came out.  I can RIGHT NOW install steam on any computer I want and the install and play Half Life.

Some of you people are really grasping at straws here.  Physical media as a delivery platform for software is dying.  There is really no getting around it.  Piracy and the secondary market have directly led to this.  Don't know what else to tell you.

I suppose you will get it when Sony starts releasing  highly anticipated first party PS4 titles as a PSN exclusives.

/no one is seriously crying about the ongoing death of the CD or DVD.  People on fark are all the time talking about how they hate plastic discs.  And yet here we are pretending that console video games are somehow different.


Yeah, that's what happens when you post shortly after waking up. I was thinking of DVD players, although in some cases you could still use physical CD medium with DVRs.

But anyway, not all games may be able to authenticate online after install, or at least considering typical Microsoft behavior in the past; if they want you to upgrade, they will easily find a way to *make* you.

If a game is no longer popular and/or profitable, they can just as easily pull the plug on it and tell you "fark you, play something else (for $70)." Of course, not all SaaS companies may behave this way, but why would you want to give them that kind of power?
 
2013-06-14 11:47:25 AM
Hey, remember when microsoft last had a "cloud based service," MSN Music?
Remember when they decided to decommission their servers, and it revoked the DRM keys for every single purchase any customer had?
Remember when none of the music clients could no longer play any of the music because there weren't any servers to phone home to?

Oh, and microsoft didn't reimburse anyone. Imagine spending a grand on games only to find out 2 days later that they've decided to shut down the servers on their end. Your box can no longer "check in," it can't "phone home," and none of your games are playable. I have no reason to believe they won't do it, because they've done it before.

Now think about your NES which is still playable.
 
2013-06-14 11:48:26 AM

theBigBigEye: If a game is no longer popular and/or profitable, they can just as easily pull the plug on it and tell you "fark you, play something else (for $70)." Of course, not all SaaS companies may behave this way, but why would you want to give them that kind of power?


I simply don't think they will.  There is money in them thar hillz, and old games being available digitally is just the way of the future.  Hell, it is the way of the NOW, stuff like Nintendo's virtual console has games going back forever.  I dunno.
 
2013-06-14 11:50:25 AM

scubamage: Hey, remember when microsoft last had a "cloud based service," MSN Music?
Remember when they decided to decommission their servers, and it revoked the DRM keys for every single purchase any customer had?
Remember when none of the music clients could no longer play any of the music because there weren't any servers to phone home to?

Oh, and microsoft didn't reimburse anyone. Imagine spending a grand on games only to find out 2 days later that they've decided to shut down the servers on their end. Your box can no longer "check in," it can't "phone home," and none of your games are playable. I have no reason to believe they won't do it, because they've done it before.

Now think about your NES which is still playable.


comparing a music service that was destined to fail in the face of iTunes is quite different than Xbox Live.  They are a market leader in gaming.  They had no damn chance in the music biz, like most every other service pretty much that isn't iTunes.
 
2013-06-14 12:11:09 PM

frepnog: scubamage: Hey, remember when microsoft last had a "cloud based service," MSN Music?
Remember when they decided to decommission their servers, and it revoked the DRM keys for every single purchase any customer had?
Remember when none of the music clients could no longer play any of the music because there weren't any servers to phone home to?

Oh, and microsoft didn't reimburse anyone. Imagine spending a grand on games only to find out 2 days later that they've decided to shut down the servers on their end. Your box can no longer "check in," it can't "phone home," and none of your games are playable. I have no reason to believe they won't do it, because they've done it before.

Now think about your NES which is still playable.

comparing a music service that was destined to fail in the face of iTunes is quite different than Xbox Live.  They are a market leader in gaming.  They had no damn chance in the music biz, like most every other service pretty much that isn't iTunes.


And Sega was a market leader in 1994. Before them were Commodore, Amiga, and Atari. All were market leaders in gaming, and they all fell over time. But you know what? You can still play their games on those systems. Do you think Microsoft will care? Do you think they'll keep their servers running?

That's the real question - it doesn't matter if they're a leader now or not, because eventually they won't be. When that time rolls around in 5, 10 years, what happens to your content? Based on prior performance, they'll cut you off, say thanks for playing, and laugh as it goes up in a puff of smoke. It doesn't matter that MSN Music was a music provider, what's important is how they treated their customers. They decided to screw them over (instead of, say, offering DRM free copies of the music they'd purchased a license to).

Their upper level management hasn't changed (though they are doing a re-org now), so the mentality at the top hasn't changed. They are, as a company, perfectly happy to screw you.

You could say the same thing about steam, but all of my steam games are playable offline so as long as I maintain that gaming rig, my games remain playable.
 
2013-06-14 12:57:48 PM

scubamage: frepnog: scubamage: Hey, remember when microsoft last had a "cloud based service," MSN Music?
Remember when they decided to decommission their servers, and it revoked the DRM keys for every single purchase any customer had?
Remember when none of the music clients could no longer play any of the music because there weren't any servers to phone home to?

Oh, and microsoft didn't reimburse anyone. Imagine spending a grand on games only to find out 2 days later that they've decided to shut down the servers on their end. Your box can no longer "check in," it can't "phone home," and none of your games are playable. I have no reason to believe they won't do it, because they've done it before.

Now think about your NES which is still playable.

comparing a music service that was destined to fail in the face of iTunes is quite different than Xbox Live.  They are a market leader in gaming.  They had no damn chance in the music biz, like most every other service pretty much that isn't iTunes.

And Sega was a market leader in 1994. Before them were Commodore, Amiga, and Atari. All were market leaders in gaming, and they all fell over time. But you know what? You can still play their games on those systems. Do you think Microsoft will care? Do you think they'll keep their servers running?

That's the real question - it doesn't matter if they're a leader now or not, because eventually they won't be. When that time rolls around in 5, 10 years, what happens to your content? Based on prior performance, they'll cut you off, say thanks for playing, and laugh as it goes up in a puff of smoke. It doesn't matter that MSN Music was a music provider, what's important is how they treated their customers. They decided to screw them over (instead of, say, offering DRM free copies of the music they'd purchased a license to).

Their upper level management hasn't changed (though they are doing a re-org now), so the mentality at the top hasn't changed. They are, as a company, perfectly happy to s ...


i get what you are saying, and it rolls back to what i have said before - piracy (and the secondary market) have led directly to what we are seeing.  The content provider needs to find someway to protect the content.  On disc DRM doesn't work.  Key codes don't work.  Taking the physical media out of the picture, and giving you content that you can only access via an online connection works.  Did everyone think that the content providers were just always going to sit back and keep letting things like moddable consoles and easily piratable games continue, especially with AAA game development reaching and sometimes surpassing big budget movies?
 
2013-06-14 01:16:22 PM

frepnog: scubamage: frepnog: scubamage

: i get what you are saying, and it rolls back to what i have said before - piracy (and the secondary market) have led directly to what we are seeing.  The content provider needs to find someway to protect the content.  On disc DRM doesn't work.  Key codes don't work.  Taking the physical media out of the picture, and giving you content that you can only access via an online connection works.  Did everyone think that the content providers were just always going to sit back and keep letting things like moddable consoles and easily piratable games continue, especially with AAA game development reaching and sometimes surpassing big budget movies?

"But piracy!" is the laziest excuse there is. This is about control and treating you as a wallet to be drained, and not a consumer. Look at Minecraft, look at people who make good games and realize that "piracy" is sharing, that it's advertising. Yes, encourage people to go legit, but a lot of pirates are packrats who are just collectors, or people who wouldn't buy it anyway, or any number of things that don't translate to direct new sales if you stop piracy, and it also reduces the reach of your media in the meantime.

Read what someone who actually develops and succeeds at selling games has to say about it (I've paid him for his game)

http://notch.tumblr.com/post/1121596044/how-piracy-works
 
2013-06-14 01:33:09 PM

Pitabred: frepnog: scubamage: frepnog: scubamage: i get what you are saying, and it rolls back to what i have said before - piracy (and the secondary market) have led directly to what we are seeing.  The content provider needs to find someway to protect the content.  On disc DRM doesn't work.  Key codes don't work.  Taking the physical media out of the picture, and giving you content that you can only access via an online connection works.  Did everyone think that the content providers were just always going to sit back and keep letting things like moddable consoles and easily piratable games continue, especially with AAA game development reaching and sometimes surpassing big budget movies?

"But piracy!" is the laziest excuse there is. This is about control and treating you as a wallet to be drained, and not a consumer. Look at Minecraft, look at people who make good games and realize that "piracy" is sharing, that it's advertising. Yes, encourage people to go legit, but a lot of pirates are packrats who are just collectors, or people who wouldn't buy it anyway, or any number of things that don't translate to direct new sales if you stop piracy, and it also reduces the reach of your media in the meantime.

Read what someone who actually develops and succeeds at selling games has to say about it (I've paid him for his game)

http://notch.tumblr.com/post/1121596044/how-piracy-works


I have read it.  I agree with most of it.  And what I said stands.  I didn't say it was right, but if you were a content provider and there was a way to get your content out to the public and you could almost be guaranteed that every copy out there was actually purchased, would you not jump for joy?

/figure before long the pirates will crack the encryption on Xbone and there will be modded consoles out there with 500 gig hard drives full of single player games with no need to call in.  Pirates are just good like that.

//say what you like, but the fact is what we are seeing is a direct result of console modding and torrents of newly released games.  Content providers are sick to death of creating a game, having it sell just enough to force them out of business, while hundreds of thousands of illegitimate copies are out in the wild being played but not paid for.  No, I don't believe that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale, but only a fool believes that no sales were lost.  Case in point - myself.  I wanted Doom 3 back when the orignial PC version launched.  I "acquired" an ISO of the game, installed it, beat it, and moved on.  Now, previous to that I had purchased my Id Software games, and had planned to buy Doom 3 - but it was easier to get the ISO at the moment.  They absolutely lost that sale.

/sorry Id.  I did buy the game years later used.

//oh wait.  that was just as bad, wasn't it?
 
2013-06-14 02:14:36 PM

frepnog: Pitabred: frepnog: scubamage: frepnog: scubamage: i get what you are saying, and it rolls back to what i have said before - piracy (and the secondary market) have led directly to what we are seeing.  The content provider needs to find someway to protect the content.  On disc DRM doesn't work.  Key codes don't work.  Taking the physical media out of the picture, and giving you content that you can only access via an online connection works.  Did everyone think that the content providers were just always going to sit back and keep letting things like moddable consoles and easily piratable games continue, especially with AAA game development reaching and sometimes surpassing big budget movies?

"But piracy!" is the laziest excuse there is. This is about control and treating you as a wallet to be drained, and not a consumer. Look at Minecraft, look at people who make good games and realize that "piracy" is sharing, that it's advertising. Yes, encourage people to go legit, but a lot of pirates are packrats who are just collectors, or people who wouldn't buy it anyway, or any number of things that don't translate to direct new sales if you stop piracy, and it also reduces the reach of your media in the meantime.

Read what someone who actually develops and succeeds at selling games has to say about it (I've paid him for his game)

http://notch.tumblr.com/post/1121596044/how-piracy-works

I have read it.  I agree with most of it.  And what I said stands.  I didn't say it was right, but if you were a content provider and there was a way to get your content out to the public and you could almost be guaranteed that every copy out there was actually purchased, would you not jump for joy?

/figure before long the pirates will crack the encryption on Xbone and there will be modded consoles out there with 500 gig hard drives full of single player games with no need to call in.  Pirates are just good like that.

//say what you like, but the fact is what we are seeing is a direct result of console modding and torrents of newly released games.  Content providers are sick to death of creating a game, having it sell just enough to force them out of business, while hundreds of thousands of illegitimate copies are out in the wild being played but not paid for.  No, I don't believe that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale, but only a fool believes that no sales were lost.  Case in point - myself.  I wanted Doom 3 back when the orignial PC version launched.  I "acquired" an ISO of the game, installed it, beat it, and moved on.  Now, previous to that I had purchased my Id Software games, and had planned to buy Doom 3 - but it was easier to get the ISO at the moment.  They absolutely lost that sale.

/sorry Id.  I did buy the game years later used.

//oh wait.  that was just as bad, wasn't it?


Soooo... In other words, you're the gamer companies like Microsoft use to justify treating ALL gamers like thieves. Thanks.

/I only pirate games I'm not sure will run on my computer
//once it's installed and I can see it runs well, I uninstall and buy it off Steam, Amazon, or GoG.
///the only exception to this is Starcraft II
//They'll get my money when they release the whole goddamn game
 
2013-06-14 02:34:15 PM

mooseyfate: Soooo... In other words, you're the gamer companies like Microsoft use to justify treating ALL gamers like thieves. Thanks.


not really.  I never pirated even ONE PS3 or Xbox 360 game.  Never modded my consoles.  Every game I had was a retail purchase, some were used, some were new.  I bought quite a few things off of the Live Marketplace, including Doom, UMK3 and some bullshiat for my avatar.  My point was that acting like piracy doesn't cost sales is foolish and naive and acting like publishers should not try their damndest to keep people from stealing their content is just outright stupid.  I get why the market is going the way it is - and it is completely OUR fault, and that is just the way it is.

Is it arrogant for MS to say "get over it"?  Yep.  But we are going to have to do just that.

/I "got over it" with steam.  I can get over it with this.

//just wait until the PS4 is actually available and let's see just how much like MS they become.  PSN exclusives are going to get commonplace.
 
2013-06-14 03:00:49 PM

frepnog: mooseyfate: Soooo... In other words, you're the gamer companies like Microsoft use to justify treating ALL gamers like thieves. Thanks.

not really.  I never pirated even ONE PS3 or Xbox 360 game.  Never modded my consoles.  Every game I had was a retail purchase, some were used, some were new.  I bought quite a few things off of the Live Marketplace, including Doom, UMK3 and some bullshiat for my avatar.  My point was that acting like piracy doesn't cost sales is foolish and naive and acting like publishers should not try their damndest to keep people from stealing their content is just outright stupid.  I get why the market is going the way it is - and it is completely OUR fault, and that is just the way it is.

Is it arrogant for MS to say "get over it"?  Yep.  But we are going to have to do just that.

/I "got over it" with steam.  I can get over it with this.

//just wait until the PS4 is actually available and let's see just how much like MS they become.  PSN exclusives are going to get commonplace.


Hey, I can "get over it", too. I'll just never buy an XB1. And if/when Sony decides to follow suit, I'll just not buy anything from them from this generation of gaming and on forward. I'll just stick to games from this current gen and on back.

Sure, I'll be missing out on some great games in the future, but it's not worth contributing to this whole "get paid forever and control EVERYTHING" system that companies and publishers seem hell-bent on pushing.

Yeah, you're right that it's the fault of piracy. It's pretty sad that the encroachment of complete control is going to be the answer to this. I wonder if there would be a way to produce some kind of open-source console that would support both cloud and physical media content models...?
 
2013-06-14 03:40:06 PM

theBigBigEye: And if/when Sony decides to follow suit, I'll just not buy anything from them from this generation of gaming and on forward. I'll just stick to games from this current gen and on back.


you say that NOW...  until you are visiting someone or demoing in a store and play something that really knocks your socks off, because MAN games are getting INCREDIBLE.

give the new machines a couple years.  I can not WAIT to see what they are going to come up with - it is going to make current gen stuff look like garbage.
 
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