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(PC Gamer Hub)   PC gamers celebrate lack of actual "next-gen" features in next-gen console announcements. This is not a repeat from 2006, 2005, 2000, 2000, 1995   (pcgamerhub.com) divider line 210
    More: Fail, PC gamers, console wars, The Hangover, best answer, system console  
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4744 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Jun 2013 at 3:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-13 02:34:12 PM  
Look guys. We PC gamers have triumphantly crowed that each new generation of consoles was heralding the "end of the console era." And we know that every new generation of consoles have sold more than the last generation.

But this time, we really, really mean it. It's really going to be the end of consoles, we pinky swear.

This time, it's going to be different, we promise.
 
2013-06-13 02:54:14 PM  
Tell you what I want to buy one box and then put a disk into it and the game works.  I don't want to have to know about video cards and sound cards and alien whatevers.
 
2013-06-13 03:06:23 PM  
Yeah, technology hasn't changed at all from this:

www.16bitsirens.com

to this:

farm7.static.flickr.com

Every console since NES has been exactly the same.
 
2013-06-13 03:38:55 PM  
Like the console kids, I was pretty excited the first time I saw a game running in 1080.  It was probably 8 or 10 years ago, but I remember it being really cool.
 
2013-06-13 03:39:31 PM  
Graphics have jumped greatly but I find that both console and pc games are becoming way too easy. It's almost to the point of if you can't beat a level or certain challenge the ai will do it for you.
 
2013-06-13 03:42:40 PM  

nmrsnr: Yeah, technology hasn't changed at all from this:



to this:



Every console since NES has been exactly the same.


No, don't you see, you fool! If only you had built your very own gaming rig! You could have only spent a few hundred dollars each month to upgrade your memory, video cards, samoflanges, vibrating computer desk chairs, and more! You could have been a gaming god! How DARE you be happy sitting in your couch and play on a console attached to your 60" LCD, and then watch a movie with your loved ones! You need to be sitting in front of your super high definition 24" monitor with your surround sound headphones! You technophobe!
 
2013-06-13 03:42:51 PM  
nmrsnr:

[farm7.static.flickr.com image 640x358]

Every console since NES has been exactly the same.


Is that Uncharted 3?  It really doesn't look all that good.  You only think it does because you're sitting 15 feet from the TV.  I have the game and enjoyed it for the most part, but if you think it's the crowned achievement of graphics, then wow.  Just wow.
 
2013-06-13 03:45:22 PM  
PC gamers (like myself) should be happy that there is a new generation of consoles out with newer hardware, it means that lots of features that we have had access to might finally get used (Such as DX11). Games will look better, and since both the XBO and PS4 are x86 machines, it means that porting games just got that much easier, and maybe, just maybe, we'll see fewer console exclusive games
 
2013-06-13 03:47:26 PM  
I'm just glad we are finally going to get some new games that push the limits.  And it's nice that the new consoles are almost as powerful as my 3 year old computer.
 
2013-06-13 03:49:16 PM  

the_sidewinder: PC gamers (like myself) should be happy that there is a new generation of consoles out with newer hardware, it means that lots of features that we have had access to might finally get used (Such as DX11). Games will look better, and since both the XBO and PS4 are x86 machines, it means that porting games just got that much easier, and maybe, just maybe, we'll see fewer console exclusive games


So much this. There have been so many great looking games for the for the 360 and PS3 that were utter trash when ported to the PC.
 
2013-06-13 03:49:38 PM  
IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.
 
2013-06-13 03:51:28 PM  

Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.


Wrong on all accounts.  Hopefully sarcasm.
 
2013-06-13 03:51:37 PM  
Meh. I admit that I'm getting a little schadenfreude from this, seeing Sony and Microsoft fanbois being targeted by the same lies they spread about the Wii a few years ago. But really, it's no truer for them than it was for the Wii.

Generations are about time of release, full stop. Nothing else has any real meaning.
 
2013-06-13 03:54:01 PM  

Elegy: Look guys. We PC gamers have triumphantly crowed that each new generation of consoles was heralding the "end of the console era." And we know that every new generation of consoles have sold more than the last generation.

But this time, we really, really mean it. It's really going to be the end of consoles, we pinky swear.

This time, it's going to be different, we promise.


It's just the opposite. Each generations of consoles have been the ones that are "going to kill PC gaming!"

Hasn't happened yet.
 
2013-06-13 03:54:58 PM  

CynicalLA: Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.

Wrong on all accounts.  Hopefully sarcasm.


It was.  Last thread I tried over the top sarcasm as well but so many people bought into it, it made me have a sad.

In reality I do both, console and PC.  I've got a pretty elaborate (but not that expensive) setup after years of tinkering - both my consoles and primary gaming PC are hooked up to the same 1080p projector - so most of my game playing takes place from the couch regardless of machine, at 120" of life-size goodness.
Only time I really sit at a desk anymore is when I'm doing work.
 
2013-06-13 03:55:36 PM  

Carousel Beast: Elegy: Look guys. We PC gamers have triumphantly crowed that each new generation of consoles was heralding the "end of the console era." And we know that every new generation of consoles have sold more than the last generation.

But this time, we really, really mean it. It's really going to be the end of consoles, we pinky swear.

This time, it's going to be different, we promise.

It's just the opposite. Each generations of consoles have been the ones that are "going to kill PC gaming!"

Hasn't happened yet.


If Nvidia and AMD went out of business it might be possible.
 
2013-06-13 03:56:01 PM  

Well I use Mac/Linux...: Is that Uncharted 3?  It really doesn't look all that good.


It is, and I thought it looked fine, I just picked the first PS3 game I thought of because anything would look massively better than FFVII's "I LOVE POLYGONS" graphics. What should I have picked?
 
2013-06-13 03:57:05 PM  
As a PC gamer, I could give a rat's ass what someone uses to have fun.

/though I do hate delays in releases for PC....i'm talking to you, Rockstar Games
 
2013-06-13 03:57:21 PM  
PC gaming is for sycophants and products of incest.
 
2013-06-13 03:57:35 PM  

Well I use Mac/Linux...: nmrsnr:

[farm7.static.flickr.com image 640x358]

Every console since NES has been exactly the same.

Is that Uncharted 3?  It really doesn't look all that good.  You only think it does because you're sitting 15 feet from the TV.  I have the game and enjoyed it for the most part, but if you think it's the crowned achievement of graphics, then wow.  Just wow.


No, it's Final Fantasy VII.
/MGS5
 
2013-06-13 03:58:45 PM  

Cytokine Storm: CynicalLA: Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.

Wrong on all accounts.  Hopefully sarcasm.

It was.  Last thread I tried over the top sarcasm as well but so many people bought into it, it made me have a sad.

In reality I do both, console and PC.  I've got a pretty elaborate (but not that expensive) setup after years of tinkering - both my consoles and primary gaming PC are hooked up to the same 1080p projector - so most of my game playing takes place from the couch regardless of machine, at 120" of life-size goodness.
Only time I really sit at a desk anymore is when I'm doing work.


Thank Jesus, I hate that stupid argument.  I've been using my Sony 52" TV for years now and Steam's big picture mode makes it easy.
 
2013-06-13 04:00:02 PM  

Mr. Fuzzypaws: PC gaming is for sycophants and products of incest.


I thought that was bacon.
 
2013-06-13 04:00:27 PM  
You mean launch titles aren't as 'good' as titles from a few years later? They tend to not push the limits of the system, while the later ones get all they can out of the console's hardware?

GET OUT.
 
2013-06-13 04:00:39 PM  
i738.photobucket.com

\oblig
 
2013-06-13 04:00:57 PM  

baufan2005: Graphics have jumped greatly but I find that both console and pc games are becoming way too easy. It's almost to the point of if you can't beat a level or certain challenge the ai will do it for you.


Dark Souls 2 comes out soon.
 
2013-06-13 04:01:09 PM  
I'm tired of PC games set up with console restrictions these days.
Clunky interface? Save points?!!!
 
2013-06-13 04:01:09 PM  
static.giantbomb.com
 
2013-06-13 04:01:11 PM  
2 things:

1. Finally. PC lovers have a thread where they are not intruding on console talk. Enjoy yourself.

2. static.giantbomb.com
 
2013-06-13 04:01:48 PM  

nmrsnr: Yeah, technology hasn't changed at all from this:

[www.16bitsirens.com image 500x375]

to this:

[farm7.static.flickr.com image 640x358]


It hasn't changed much. Prettier pictures, but that's about it; nothing that matters. The PS4 is still nothing more than an upgraded PS1, and the XBone is still nothing more than an upgraded XBox; neither company has brought anything new to the table since their very first offerings.

Every console since NES has been exactly the same.

Nintendo's really the only one that has ever had significant differences across generations, and even they haven't managed that most of the time.
 
2013-06-13 04:01:55 PM  
OK, I was late with the ZP reference - but still quicker than someone.
 
2013-06-13 04:02:02 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: [static.giantbomb.com image 850x531]


DAMN YOU TO HELL.
 
2013-06-13 04:02:33 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: You mean launch titles aren't as 'good' as titles from a few years later? They tend to not push the limits of the system, while the later ones get all they can out of the console's hardware?

GET OUT.


"The Last of Us" is a perfect example of that.  Game looks amazing for a PS3 title and I'm sure GTAV will look good as well.
 
2013-06-13 04:03:17 PM  
If you're a dedicated PC gamer why the fark do you care about new consoles? You're going to sink that $750 into your computer anyway.

If all you do is console, you've accepted the drawbacks of console v. PC and are presumably satisfied with your experiences. What do you care what PC users think about your console?

/both, thanks, console for some things, PC for others
 
2013-06-13 04:06:09 PM  

js34603: If you're a dedicated PC gamer why the fark do you care about new consoles? You're going to sink that $750 into your computer anyway.

If all you do is console, you've accepted the drawbacks of console v. PC and are presumably satisfied with your experiences. What do you care what PC users think about your console?

/both, thanks, console for some things, PC for others


I care because PC games are limited to what consoles can do.
 
2013-06-13 04:08:03 PM  
Video game snobbery is a thing?   Is that like being a sommelier of energy drinks?
 
2013-06-13 04:09:15 PM  

Millennium: It hasn't changed much. Prettier pictures, but that's about it; nothing that matters. The PS4 is still nothing more than an upgraded PS1, and the XBone is still nothing more than an upgraded XBox; neither company has brought anything new to the table since their very first offerings.


But the same can be said for PC, only more so, even the user interface hasn't changed at all (mouse/keyboard) compared to at least new controllers for consoles.

I like controllers in general more than WASD setups, I just find it more comfortable, also, it's still less annoying to hook up a console to a TV than a computer. But really, why do people care so much? Buy the game on the platform you like, there are few enough console specific games these days that it really matters which you choose.
 
2013-06-13 04:11:54 PM  
i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-06-13 04:12:30 PM  

nmrsnr: Millennium: It hasn't changed much. Prettier pictures, but that's about it; nothing that matters. The PS4 is still nothing more than an upgraded PS1, and the XBone is still nothing more than an upgraded XBox; neither company has brought anything new to the table since their very first offerings.

But the same can be said for PC, only more so, even the user interface hasn't changed at all (mouse/keyboard) compared to at least new controllers for consoles.

I like controllers in general more than WASD setups, I just find it more comfortable, also, it's still less annoying to hook up a console to a TV than a computer. But really, why do people care so much? Buy the game on the platform you like, there are few enough console specific games these days that it really matters which you choose.


All new video cards come with a HDMI output just like consoles. And they sell wireless XBOX controllers for the PC.
 
2013-06-13 04:13:50 PM  

Millennium: Prettier pictures, but that's about it; nothing that matters. The PS4 is still nothing more than an upgraded PS1, and the XBone is still nothing more than an upgraded XBox; neither company has brought anything new to the table since their very first offerings.


this is a load of horse shiat and if you don't actually know that, spending some time playing some of the best games from each console will show you exactly why you are wrong.
 
2013-06-13 04:14:55 PM  
Have a Wii, that was fun for like 2 years.  Always been a heavy PC gamer.  I wholeheartedly miss football games on PC (real football, NFL duh).  This would be the only reason I'd consider a console...
 
2013-06-13 04:15:21 PM  

baufan2005: Graphics have jumped greatly but I find that both console and pc games are becoming way too easy. It's almost to the point of if you can't beat a level or certain challenge the ai will do it for you.


Back in the day they didn't measure the scope of a single-player game in terms of hours, because how long it took you to see the ending -- or even whether you'd see it at all -- was a function of how well you had mastered the gameplay.

Sure, Super Mario Bros. may be theoretically beatable in under 5 minutes, but I'm betting as a 10-year-old you spent hours and hours and saw dozens of Game Over screens trying to get past the Hammer Brothers.  How many hours long in Super Mario Bros.?
 
2013-06-13 04:18:13 PM  

CynicalLA: All new video cards come with a HDMI output just like consoles.


I didn't say it was hard, I said more annoying. Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs? I have a laptop that I like to be able to use from my table, my couch, my bedroom, and I use my PS3 as a media center to stream my media to the TV when I want to watch video from my computer on the TV screen, having to plug it in to the TV every time I want to play games is a step I don't have to take with just a console. Not a huge hassle, but why bother when the PS3 is already there?
 
2013-06-13 04:19:54 PM  

Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.


Go home, Rodney, you're drunk.
 
2013-06-13 04:25:39 PM  

lordargent: [i3.kym-cdn.com image 700x400]


Let's be friends.
 
2013-06-13 04:28:40 PM  
nmrsnr:
Every console since NES has been exactly the same.

Except that Atari 400/800 owners (1979) weren't all that impressed with NES (1985).  Ok, there was that thing called the Atari 5200 (1982) which was basically an Atari 400 without  a keyboard.  For what its worth, the intellivision was the "state of the art console" when the Atari was released.  The lead design, Jay Miner (and presumably a few of his team), went on to create the Amiga.  I'm sure Amiga users were no doubt amused by all pre-3d consoles (I learned my lesson with the 400/800 about buying into a computer that was "good at games").

The funny thing here is that consoles pwned PCs (i.e. IBM compatibles, other types were another story)  until the 3dFX Voodoo came along: sprites, moving playfields, sane graphics: what's that?  The only thing PCs  had going was high resolution graphics (and then only by the 1990s, pre-[s]VGA was pretty sad) and that was rarely used due to glacial framerates (Myst worked well at those framerates, and largely designed that way because macs were worse).
 
2013-06-13 04:38:14 PM  
http://kotaku.com/kotaku-takes-the-oculus-rift-for-a-spin-486679107

This was linked in the article, and it's a good watch. I think this + kinect like motion sensing could make the most psychologically damaging, life sucking mmog imaginable. The kinect being there to animate your avatar's limbs, so that when you lift your arms in front of your face, arms of your avatar display. Etc. Throw some noise cancelling, surround headphones in. Sit in a chair made of acoustic foam in a room exactly 71f degrees. BAM holodeck, kinda.
 
2013-06-13 04:38:23 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: The only thing PCs had going was high resolution graphics


You're absolutely correct that developers had to take some shortcuts to get good graphics out of the platform, but the thing PCs had going for them was the most complex input scheme in wide use, only made more complex and accurate by the adoption of the mouse.  Just putting that on the record.
 
2013-06-13 04:39:25 PM  

frepnog: Millennium: Prettier pictures, but that's about it; nothing that matters. The PS4 is still nothing more than an upgraded PS1, and the XBone is still nothing more than an upgraded XBox; neither company has brought anything new to the table since their very first offerings.

this is a load of horse shiat and if you don't actually know that, spending some time playing some of the best games from each console will show you exactly why you are wrong.


Been there, done that, and it showed me just how right I was.
 
2013-06-13 04:43:22 PM  
fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-13 04:46:30 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: The funny thing here is that consoles pwned PCs (i.e. IBM compatibles, other types were another story) until the 3dFX Voodoo came along: sprites, moving playfields, sane graphics: what's that?


you are totally.  completely.  and utterly wrong.

There was NOTHING like Doom on a console for a VERY long time.  There was NOTHING like Magic Carpet.  There was NOTHING like Decent.  Nothing like Marathon.  All of that pre-dates the voodoo.  For a very long time, the PC was VASTLY superior to ALL the consoles until around the Xbox\PS2\Gamecube era, when the consoles finally caught up to a degree and then were outclassed again almost immediately by the PC.
 
2013-06-13 04:46:41 PM  

Millennium: Been there, done that, and it showed me just how right I was.


The Souls games, Uncharted 2, Vanquish, Bayonetta, Dragon's Dogma, Mirror's Edge, Bulletstorm, Crackdown, Dead Rising, Crysis, Supreme Commander, and Serious Sam 3, Wargame: Airland Battle are all excellent games (from a mechanical and conceptual perspective) that could absolutely not have been done on previous-generation hardware and benefited from that upgrade in hardware.  If you think that video games haven't benefited from the hardware, then you're not looking hard enough.  That doesn't excuse the pretty games with little interactivity, that doesn't excuse the games which think "billions of choices" equals "billions of depth".  But the best game developers are making use of the hardware and doing it well.
 
2013-06-13 04:47:16 PM  
A new Xbone will cost almost as much as a decent computer. Since a computer can do so much more than a console, why not just buy a PC? Then you got yer games, you got yer internet, yer streaming pron, yer spread sheets, yer word processin, you got yer PhotieShop, yer emails, YouToobs, yer mods and indies, yer music studio, video editing, and a bunch of stuff I can't even think of right now. The ways I sees it Microsoft is making PCs an attractive alternative even for them thats long time console gamers. With an HDMI cable and an impressive array of controller options I don't see how anybody would want a console over a PC. And don't go on about upgrading video cards; when was the last time your xbox's video card was upgraded? Slap together a medium priced PC and you are better off with more bang for your  buck and the option to upgrade should you feel the itch.
 
2013-06-13 04:47:26 PM  
nmrsnr:

Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs?


Some people do, they're called HTPCs. I'm thinking of either building one or buying one myself. That would take care of streaming media to the TV and any device in the house, play games occasionally if needed, do computer work if needed.
 
2013-06-13 04:50:04 PM  

nmrsnr: CynicalLA: All new video cards come with a HDMI output just like consoles.

I didn't say it was hard, I said more annoying. Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs? I have a laptop that I like to be able to use from my table, my couch, my bedroom, and I use my PS3 as a media center to stream my media to the TV when I want to watch video from my computer on the TV screen, having to plug it in to the TV every time I want to play games is a step I don't have to take with just a console. Not a huge hassle, but why bother when the PS3 is already there?


So 1 power lead, 1 tv lead, 1 box, and 1 controller is more annoying that 1 power lead, 1 tv lead, 1 box, and 1 controller? Huh.
 
2013-06-13 04:50:24 PM  

Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.


Not sure if serious

/it seems like obvious parody
//but I've read stupider things said in all earnestness
 
2013-06-13 04:51:03 PM  

nmrsnr: Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs?


I do.
 
2013-06-13 04:53:34 PM  

nmrsnr: Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs?


Lots of them have underutilized computers constantly connected to their TVs; they're called game consoles.
 
kab
2013-06-13 04:54:39 PM  
eh.   Consoles evolve, then stop for several years till the next iteration is created.  PC's continually get faster / more betterer.... so if consoles ever have a technical advantage, it's extremely short lived.   If anything is holding PC gaming back, it's the fact that most game development happens for consoles first, and ports over, rather than the other way around.

And FTA, while independent games are a great fit for the PC community, taking advantage of graphics etc, still takes a lot of work, which is part of the reason AAA title game development is so costly these days.

I think both Sony and MS missed the boat with this latest round... and should have been forward thinking enough to develop with the idea that 4k tv's will likely drop in price and become a reality in a good number of households in the next 5-7 years.    How are these new consoles going to do running @ that sort of resolution?
 
2013-06-13 04:55:01 PM  
Why PC vs. Console No Longer Matters

Yeah, that one. Fight's almost over.

Console's got the edge in, "don't need to check system requirements before purchase" and hand-held integration (well, the PS3/PS4 at least).
PC's got the edge in, "does things besides games and Netflix" and more flexibility in input devices.

The one thing that hurts PC though is that it's so ubiquitous. Most PC games will get a console port. It might be lesser quality, but it'll usually be playable. In AAA titles, you're much less likely to come across a "PC Exclusive" title. Then again, that becomes an argument for owning a PC vs. owning all the consoles of a generation because they all have that strength/weakness against each other.

/C'mon Capcom
//PW5 on the Vita
 
2013-06-13 04:56:55 PM  

neongoats: http://kotaku.com/kotaku-takes-the-oculus-rift-for-a-spin-486679107

This was linked in the article, and it's a good watch. I think this + kinect like motion sensing could make the most psychologically damaging, life sucking mmog imaginable. The kinect being there to animate your avatar's limbs, so that when you lift your arms in front of your face, arms of your avatar display. Etc. Throw some noise cancelling, surround headphones in. Sit in a chair made of acoustic foam in a room exactly 71f degrees. BAM holodeck, kinda.


I've got a dev kit to play with, it really is going to be quite awesome when they come out with the consumer model.  Interestingly enough, when wearing the Rift the most natural feeling control scheme changes depending on what you're doing.  If you're in a game with a cockpit then sitting down in a chair feels just fine, but something with walking/running like say TF2/Minecraft, it feels a little odd, like something is missing.  The world slides by while you stand still.  For those games it'd feel best inside the Virtuix Omni treadmill that's coming out next year.  It's pretty crazy how a true first-person perspective can play with your brain.
 
rpm
2013-06-13 04:57:25 PM  

frepnog: There was NOTHING like Doom on a console for a VERY long time.  There was NOTHING like Magic Carpet.  There was NOTHING like Decent.  Nothing like Marathon.  All of that pre-dates the voodoo.  For a very long time, the PC was VASTLY superior to ALL the consoles until around the Xbox\PS2\Gamecube era, when the consoles finally caught up to a degree and then were outclassed again almost immediately by the PC.


Err, Magic Carpet was on console (2 years after PC)
Descent was on console (2 years after PC)
Doom was on console (1 year after PC)
Marathon was on console (Pippin, so arguable)
 
2013-06-13 04:59:00 PM  

Cytokine Storm: I've got a dev kit to play with, it really is going to be quite awesome when they come out with the consumer model. Interestingly enough, when wearing the Rift the most natural feeling control scheme changes depending on what you're doing. If you're in a game with a cockpit then sitting down in a chair feels just fine, but something with walking/running like say TF2/Minecraft, it feels a little odd, like something is missing. The world slides by while you stand still. For those games it'd feel best inside the Virtuix Omni treadmill that's coming out next year. It's pretty crazy how a true first-person perspective can play with your brain.


I bet playing scout would be a biatch and a half :)
 
2013-06-13 05:00:58 PM  

kab: I think both Sony and MS missed the boat with this latest round... and should have been forward thinking enough to develop with the idea that 4k tv's will likely drop in price and become a reality in a good number of households in the next 5-7 years. How are these new consoles going to do running @ that sort of resolution?


Console generations are 5-7 years long. You JUST estimated that it will take the entire lifetime of the upcoming console generation before 4k tvs are a reality in a good number of households, and want to know why they aren't going to support them?
 
2013-06-13 05:01:50 PM  
The Japanese make a lot of games I like that are console only. Because of that, I'll continue buying consoles.
 
kab
2013-06-13 05:02:26 PM  

evilmrsock: kab: I think both Sony and MS missed the boat with this latest round... and should have been forward thinking enough to develop with the idea that 4k tv's will likely drop in price and become a reality in a good number of households in the next 5-7 years. How are these new consoles going to do running @ that sort of resolution?

Console generations are 5-7 years long. You JUST estimated that it will take the entire lifetime of the upcoming console generation before 4k tvs are a reality in a good number of households, and want to know why they aren't going to support them?


I should have said 'within' then.
 
2013-06-13 05:03:24 PM  
I'm going to do the same thing this "generation" that I did last time. Get a PS4 and a Wii U when the price comes down to play the handful of exclusives that I care about and everything else I'll get on PC, preferably through Steam and Desura. And completely ignore Xbox.

I don't feel any smugness in preferring PC. There's plenty of Nintendo games that I love and PS4 winds up with a good deal of enjoyable games not available on PC. I don't recall any Xbox "exclusives" that I cared about pretty much ever.
 
2013-06-13 05:06:27 PM  
Console for arcade style games and PC for FPS, RTS and anything that requires more keystrokes than entering in your name once when you start the game.

I don't understand why people like playing FPS's with sticks.

\PC
\\PS3
\\\XBOX 360
\\\\Wii
\\Will probably buy the new ones too.
 
2013-06-13 05:06:45 PM  
Oh and this is neat, though it doesn't actually confirm anything.

Sony Computer Entertainment head of Worldwide Studios Shuhei Yoshida is a big Oculus Rift fan, it turns out. "We've got a couple of the development kits, and I tried it out and I love it," he told us in an interview this morning at E3 2013. Whether the PlayStation 4 will support it is another question. "No, it doesn't," Yoshida told us. Not yet, that is.

When we asked whether the company's planning on offering support in the future, he only offered a "No comment" with a big smile. The picture of the retail Oculus Rift is potentially a bit clearer now, especially given this week's addition of an HD version of the headset. We'll be sure to keep on Sony about Oculus support on the PlayStation 4 as the year goes on.
 
2013-06-13 05:08:27 PM  

red5ish: Lots of them have underutilized computers constantly connected to their TVs; they're called game consoles.


I'd say "specialized" instead of "underutilized" and that's my point, I constantly move my computer around and use it for various and sundry purposes, I have no problem paying a small amount for a specialized gaming computer that lives connected to my TV. I can use my computer as a DVD/Blu-Ray player, netflix streaming device, and gaming platform, or I can buy a PS3 which does all that and acts like a dedicated external hard drive for games, without me having to configure much of anything since that's what it's built for, having it always be connected to the TV, unlike my laptop, and not having to worry about compatibility and upgrading until the next console comes out (which is now, but I generally wait a year or two.). Like I said, not a huge deal, but a convenience thing that I'm willing to shell out $300 every 6-7 years for.
/that's less per year than TF, if you think about it.
 
2013-06-13 05:11:07 PM  

kab: evilmrsock: kab: I think both Sony and MS missed the boat with this latest round... and should have been forward thinking enough to develop with the idea that 4k tv's will likely drop in price and become a reality in a good number of households in the next 5-7 years. How are these new consoles going to do running @ that sort of resolution?

Console generations are 5-7 years long. You JUST estimated that it will take the entire lifetime of the upcoming console generation before 4k tvs are a reality in a good number of households, and want to know why they aren't going to support them?

I should have said 'within' then.


Two of the three support it for video output.  I think the reason they don't support it for much of the gaming is well, it takes a beefy GPU to support high quality 4k at 60 fps.

Better to focus on 1080p this gen, and prep for 4k next gen.  It will take that long to get enough 4k tvs into enough homes, and enough content for said TVs.

For this gen, I'm basically midrange Pc + ps4, and a wii U sometime down the road, around the release of zelda.  Probably 2015 or so.
 
2013-06-13 05:12:52 PM  
I'm a master race PC Gamer, but I'll probably get both just because sometimes I like to chill on the couch and play games on a giant tv.  For whatever reason when I play PC games I like to be at my desk.  Playing a FPS with a controller is for rubes, but playing a racing game without a controller is for tards.

On a completely unrelated note, I just bought NoLimits roller coaster simulator and even though it's been out for ten years, I somehow missed it.  It's pretty cool.

Damn difficult to build your own coaster, though.  It's going to require some work.
 
2013-06-13 05:13:52 PM  

Cytokine Storm: Oh and this is neat, though it doesn't actually confirm anything.

Sony Computer Entertainment head of Worldwide Studios Shuhei Yoshida is a big Oculus Rift fan, it turns out. "We've got a couple of the development kits, and I tried it out and I love it," he told us in an interview this morning at E3 2013. Whether the PlayStation 4 will support it is another question. "No, it doesn't," Yoshida told us. Not yet, that is.

When we asked whether the company's planning on offering support in the future, he only offered a "No comment" with a big smile. The picture of the retail Oculus Rift is potentially a bit clearer now, especially given this week's addition of an HD version of the headset. We'll be sure to keep on Sony about Oculus support on the PlayStation 4 as the year goes on.


Nice heh. Sign me up for EverQuest - Oculus Rift edition. I would pre-order that shiat on a rumor.
 
2013-06-13 05:16:07 PM  

rpm: frepnog: There was NOTHING like Doom on a console for a VERY long time.  There was NOTHING like Magic Carpet.  There was NOTHING like Decent.  Nothing like Marathon.  All of that pre-dates the voodoo.  For a very long time, the PC was VASTLY superior to ALL the consoles until around the Xbox\PS2\Gamecube era, when the consoles finally caught up to a degree and then were outclassed again almost immediately by the PC.

Err, Magic Carpet was on console (2 years after PC)
Descent was on console (2 years after PC)
Doom was on console (1 year after PC)
Marathon was on console (Pippin, so arguable)


and all were miserable imitations of the Pc original and even the miserable imitations took new console hardware.  Or are you going to try to convince me that the SNES Doom was anything but unplayable?  The Jaguar version that you reference was farking terrible and was on a console that was more lies than hardware.
 
2013-06-13 05:20:17 PM  

kab: evilmrsock: kab: I think both Sony and MS missed the boat with this latest round... and should have been forward thinking enough to develop with the idea that 4k tv's will likely drop in price and become a reality in a good number of households in the next 5-7 years. How are these new consoles going to do running @ that sort of resolution?

Console generations are 5-7 years long. You JUST estimated that it will take the entire lifetime of the upcoming console generation before 4k tvs are a reality in a good number of households, and want to know why they aren't going to support them?

I should have said 'within' then.


Widespread adoption of 4K TVs is likely going to be driven by content.  Unless there's a revolution in 4K distribution of content, we won't see a leap in the install base.  Aside from that, almost all HD television is shot 2K at maximum and generally 1920x1080.  To go to a 4K format would mean a pretty sizeable increase in production costs for upgraded equipment and workflow.  Hell, some features I work on are shot at 2K.

Yes, you could make sure the TVs have decent upscalers, but it's not the same.
 
2013-06-13 05:23:16 PM  
rpm:.

Err, Magic Carpet was on console (2 years after PC)
Descent was on console (2 years after PC)
Doom was on console (1 year after PC)
Marathon was on console (Pippin, so arguable)


I don't know about the rest, but the most of the early console ports of Doom were really cut down to work on the console at all.  Simplified levels, removed monsters, no music, reduced sound effects and not running full screen were all common in the early console ports.  Not at all equivalent to the experience on the PC.
 
2013-06-13 05:25:06 PM  
Like the next iPhone, what magical features should the next consoles have?   Better graphics and speed is about all you should expect.
 
2013-06-13 05:25:53 PM  

Elegy: Look guys. We PC gamers have triumphantly crowed that each new generation of consoles was heralding the "end of the console era." And we know that every new generation of consoles have sold more than the last generation.

But this time, we really, really mean it. It's really going to be the end of consoles, we pinky swear.

This time, it's going to be different, we promise.


that statement goes both ways, in 2006 the PC was dead according to most media outlets and gamers

fast forward to today, and the PC is a huge global market, and Steam is still solidly better than what either microsoft or sony offer game-wise on top of still being free and more open

the consoles have their own problems this time around anyways, tablets and phones stole all the casual buyers, and the AAA game model is doomed to financial failure with no mid-tiers to fill in (yet)

but that's how markets go - boom/bust creates more opportunities for boom/bust
 
2013-06-13 05:26:54 PM  

nmrsnr: red5ish: Lots of them have underutilized computers constantly connected to their TVs; they're called game consoles.

I'd say "specialized" instead of "underutilized" and that's my point, I constantly move my computer around and use it for various and sundry purposes, I have no problem paying a small amount for a specialized gaming computer that lives connected to my TV. I can use my computer as a DVD/Blu-Ray player, netflix streaming device, and gaming platform, or I can buy a PS3 which does all that and acts like a dedicated external hard drive for games, without me having to configure much of anything since that's what it's built for, having it always be connected to the TV, unlike my laptop, and not having to worry about compatibility and upgrading until the next console comes out (which is now, but I generally wait a year or two.). Like I said, not a huge deal, but a convenience thing that I'm willing to shell out $300 every 6-7 years for.
/that's less per year than TF, if you think about it.


Since you have your laptop, why not buy a cheap tower instead of a $500 console? You could hook it to your TV and it just does more than a console. But it depends on what games you like to play, I suppose. If you want to play Skyrim, for instance, the mods make it so very much better, you really should play it on a PC. The difference between un-modded console games and modded PC games can be enormous. A $900 computer, over 6-years, is 42¢ a day. Then if your laptop bricks you have some sort of backup. $900 would build an exceptional gaming tower.
Like you, I have a PCs and consoles, so my point is more that the narrowing price difference makes the dedicated PC much more attractive.
 
2013-06-13 05:31:03 PM  

Lsherm: I'm a master race PC Gamer, but I'll probably get both just because sometimes I like to chill on the couch and play games on a giant tv.  For whatever reason when I play PC games I like to be at my desk.  Playing a FPS with a controller is for rubes, but playing a racing game without a controller is for tards.

On a completely unrelated note, I just bought NoLimits roller coaster simulator and even though it's been out for ten years, I somehow missed it.  It's pretty cool.

Damn difficult to build your own coaster, though.  It's going to require some work.


Heh I bought Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 Deluxe just the other day via Steam, ah the nostalgia :)

/playing racing games without a G27 or equivalent and triple screen is fairly pedestrian, in my opinion as a fellow master race PC gamer :P
 
2013-06-13 05:31:28 PM  

poot_rootbeer: baufan2005: Graphics have jumped greatly but I find that both console and pc games are becoming way too easy. It's almost to the point of if you can't beat a level or certain challenge the ai will do it for you.

Back in the day they didn't measure the scope of a single-player game in terms of hours, because how long it took you to see the ending -- or even whether you'd see it at all -- was a function of how well you had mastered the gameplay.

Sure, Super Mario Bros. may be theoretically beatable in under 5 minutes, but I'm betting as a 10-year-old you spent hours and hours and saw dozens of Game Over screens trying to get past the Hammer Brothers.  How many hours long in Super Mario Bros.?


This is precisely why I love Skyrim and its contemporaries. Set it to 'hard as hell' and strive to master all routes in your preferred style of play, you can spend forever.
 
2013-06-13 05:36:38 PM  
Like you, I have a PCs and consoles, so my point is more that the narrowing price difference makes the dedicated PC much more attractive.

That's not a bad idea, but a $900 computer is still 3 times more expensive than what I generally buy the consoles at, maybe when I'm getting ready to buy the PS4 in two or three years I'll consider it.
 
2013-06-13 05:36:56 PM  

stuhayes2010: Like the next iPhone, what magical features should the next consoles have?   Better graphics and speed is about all you should expect.


I would have loved it if they had come up with some sort of massive RAM or SSD system that would eliminate loading time during game play. In some games there's a ridiculous amount of time spent loading every time your character goes through a door, for instance, and in some games merely making your character run causes lag and loading delays.
 
2013-06-13 05:37:29 PM  

Mike_LowELL: yet_another_wumpus: The only thing PCs had going was high resolution graphics

You're absolutely correct that developers had to take some shortcuts to get good graphics out of the platform, but the thing PCs had going for them was the most complex input scheme in wide use, only made more complex and accurate by the adoption of the mouse.  Just putting that on the record.


You don't remember calibrating analog [pre-usb] joysticks, do you?  I'll admit, I'd much rather play wing commander with a joystick and keyboard.  Not so sure about commander keen (a console controller would have been better.  Didn't get a PC compatible one till much later).  Ditto for virtua fighter/virtua fighter 2, which were pretty useless when I got a ergonomic split keyboard.  It took awhile before the mouse completely eliminated the joystick: I guess it mostly took the death of the spaceflight genre (wing commander and X-wing) and the complete replacement of DOS gaming with direct-X (which took sometime even after win95).

I have no idea if I played civilization 1 without a mouse or not (I can't imagine it now).  I must have started nearly at the same time as I bought my first mouse.  No such issues with wolfenstein (or any FPS), warcraft (or any RTS*).  If you think these games would be limited on console, try playing any MUD from the time (or Cthulhu help you, Zork) without a keyboard.  By now, I can't imagine any game I'd rather play on a console.  Port a fighting game and I'll try to plug in a console controller, anything else I'll use either a keyboard and mouse or non-standard USB controller (wheel/"guitar"/joystick).

The funny thing is that one thing that nobody seemed to notice (or more likely, plenty noticed but couldn't push a means to profit from) that the biggest lesson of the last generation was that controllers matter.  Wii might not have been able to keep selling games to the casual/kiddie market they owned (my niece and nephew appear to be attempting to reverse this on their own), but they certainly had a huge advantage by carefully designing a controller.

* Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure most RTS games can trace their lineage back to Eastern Front for Atari 400/800 (I'm sure Sid Meier was familiar with it).  It was turn based, but included a scrollable map and mostly used joystick input (with some keyboard controls.  I'm pretty sure "end turn" was keyboard).  Mice weren't strictly necessary for this type of thing, but keyboards certainly helped, and I'd hate to use those pitiful analog joysticks of yore.
 
2013-06-13 05:38:25 PM  
AdamK:
fast forward to today, and the PC is a huge global market, and Steam is still solidly better than what either microsoft or sony offer game-wise on top of still being free and more open

i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-13 05:39:24 PM  
You can build a gaming PC that will last for years, then need only an incremental upgrade after that, for the same or less cost than a console. This isn't 1995 anymore.
 
2013-06-13 05:48:16 PM  

ProfessorOhki: The one thing that hurts PC though is that it's so ubiquitous. Most PC games will get a console port. It might be lesser quality, but it'll usually be playable


Err, what? The total number of games that exists for the PS2 (to take the console with probably the highest number) is somewhere around 2500-3000. I own nearly 2000 PC games myself and I have barely scratched the surface.

Don't you mean the thing that hurts consoles is that almost all their games will also appear on the PC, even if it is a crappy port?
 
2013-06-13 05:53:02 PM  

theurge14: AdamK:
fast forward to today, and the PC is a huge global market, and Steam is still solidly better than what either microsoft or sony offer game-wise on top of still being free and more open

[i.imgur.com image 152x143]


Than XBL or PSN, sure.
 
2013-06-13 05:58:25 PM  

nmrsnr: Like you, I have a PCs and consoles, so my point is more that the narrowing price difference makes the dedicated PC much more attractive.

That's not a bad idea, but a $900 computer is still 3 times more expensive than what I generally buy the consoles at, maybe when I'm getting ready to buy the PS4 in two or three years I'll consider it.


I was basing my thoughts on the $500 price tag on an X Box 1. You could build quite a nice tower for ~$500. A $900 tower would kick any console to the curb.
 
2013-06-13 06:02:14 PM  

baufan2005: Graphics have jumped greatly but I find that both console and pc games are becoming way too easy. It's almost to the point of if you can't beat a level or certain challenge the ai will do it for you.


Played demon souls or dark souls?
 
2013-06-13 06:22:41 PM  

poot_rootbeer: baufan2005: Graphics have jumped greatly but I find that both console and pc games are becoming way too easy. It's almost to the point of if you can't beat a level or certain challenge the ai will do it for you.

Back in the day they didn't measure the scope of a single-player game in terms of hours, because how long it took you to see the ending -- or even whether you'd see it at all -- was a function of how well you had mastered the gameplay.

Sure, Super Mario Bros. may be theoretically beatable in under 5 minutes, but I'm betting as a 10-year-old you spent hours and hours and saw dozens of Game Over screens trying to get past the Hammer Brothers.  How many hours long in Super Mario Bros.?


Mike Tyson's Punch Out, here.  I was the first kid in my neighbourhood to beat him.  Man did that feel good.  He was hard as fark.

Also, Battletoads still gives me nightmares to this day.
 
2013-06-13 06:24:49 PM  
did anyone else read the ridiculous article in last month's game informer magazine about how current insanely powerful PC's are not true next gen gaming because all games have to be cut down to also work on the consoles?

It was the funniest bunch of bullshiat I had read in awhile.

in part -


"DISPELLING THE MYTH (title): When Sony revealed the PS4, I read some of the comments regarding the console online and noticed that one persistent myth kept appearing - current PC games are already next generation. That's simply not true.


The reality is that high-end PC is a small market for developers and publishers, although it has seen some significant growth over the last few years. I played Crysis 3, and it's a beautiful game. However, at its core Crysis 3 was also designed to run on current consoles and less powerful PCs. Every graphical enhancement you see on a high-end PC, no matter how pretty it is, is just eye candy. Crytek could not design levels and enemies that would impact gameplay unless those elements would also work on Xbox 360 and PS3. Core design has to work on all systems, which limits developers working on today's consoles compared to those who are working on next-generation consoles.
Games like Diablo III, Watch Dogs, and Destiny are going to look better on next generation of consoles. However, they are not, at their core, going to be very different today's games unless exclusive content is released for the new consoles. For example, Destiny's PS4-exclusive content might be something that pushes gameplay that wouldn't be possible on current-gen consoles."
 
2013-06-13 06:37:52 PM  

LoR75: Also, Battletoads still gives me nightmares to this day.


I view Battletoads almost like I view Woodstock - if everyone that claims to have been damaged by Battletoads had actually owned that game, it would be a modern franchise with millions and millions of copies sold.

/most NES owners never actually played Battletoads.  Its infamy is almost soley based on internet Youtube videos and ROM playthrus.
 
2013-06-13 06:39:16 PM  

frepnog: did anyone else read the ridiculous article in last month's game informer magazine about how current insanely powerful PC's are not true next gen gaming because all games have to be cut down to also work on the consoles?

It was the funniest bunch of bullshiat I had read in awhile.

in part -


"DISPELLING THE MYTH (title): When Sony revealed the PS4, I read some of the comments regarding the console online and noticed that one persistent myth kept appearing - current PC games are already next generation. That's simply not true.


The reality is that high-end PC is a small market for developers and publishers, although it has seen some significant growth over the last few years. I played Crysis 3, and it's a beautiful game. However, at its core Crysis 3 was also designed to run on current consoles and less powerful PCs. Every graphical enhancement you see on a high-end PC, no matter how pretty it is, is just eye candy. Crytek could not design levels and enemies that would impact gameplay unless those elements would also work on Xbox 360 and PS3. Core design has to work on all systems, which limits developers working on today's consoles compared to those who are working on next-generation consoles.
Games like Diablo III, Watch Dogs, and Destiny are going to look better on next generation of consoles. However, they are not, at their core, going to be very different today's games unless exclusive content is released for the new consoles. For example, Destiny's PS4-exclusive content might be something that pushes gameplay that wouldn't be possible on current-gen consoles."


If you typically stick to AAA titles, he isn't wrong. The exception would be a few genres that are typically poorly implemented on consoles (RTS, flight sims). You aren't going to have a console version and a PC version of the same game where core game elements are different for something like an FPS, but let's see a console play something like  http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/warthog/  using a controller.
 
2013-06-13 06:42:39 PM  

frepnog: LoR75: Also, Battletoads still gives me nightmares to this day.

I view Battletoads almost like I view Woodstock - if everyone that claims to have been damaged by Battletoads had actually owned that game, it would be a modern franchise with millions and millions of copies sold.

/most NES owners never actually played Battletoads.  Its infamy is almost soley based on internet Youtube videos and ROM playthrus.


I played it, countless hours. But I didn't buy it. See, back then we could borrow our friends' games too...
 
2013-06-13 06:42:47 PM  
Just wake me up when someone makes a new NHL hockey game for the PC. Even better if someone takes it away from EA if legally possible.

/haven't bought an Xbox 360 game in two or more years
 
2013-06-13 06:44:28 PM  

Need a Dispenser Here: If you typically stick to AAA titles, he isn't wrong. The exception would be a few genres that are typically poorly implemented on consoles (RTS, flight sims). You aren't going to have a console version and a PC version of the same game where core game elements are different for something like an FPS, but let's see a console play something like http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/warthog/ using a controller.


Does Skyrim count as an FPS?  Its one of the few AAA titles that genuinely takes advantage of the 'next-gen' features of PCs and I ain't talkin about the eye-candy.  (mods, mods mods mods & more mods all created using the web 2.0 user-generated massive community at nexus).  Of course Bethesda is one of the few larger dev houses that 'gets it' when it comes to exploiting the power of the PC gaming community.

First Person Swording?  Flaming Poker Sticks?
 
2013-06-13 06:45:04 PM  

Practical_Draconian: Just wake me up when someone makes a new NHL hockey game for the PC. Even better if someone takes it away from EA if legally possible.

/haven't bought an Xbox 360 game in two or more years


last console game i bought was Red Dead Redemption.  Worth every penny.
 
2013-06-13 06:47:45 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Does Skyrim count as an FPS?


not really, but is sort of is.  sort of.  no i guess it really isnt.  i mean it is first person and all and you can do some "shooting".
 
2013-06-13 06:50:26 PM  

frepnog: BumpInTheNight: Does Skyrim count as an FPS?

not really, but is sort of is.  sort of.  no i guess it really isnt.  i mean it is first person and all and you can do some "shooting".


Hrm, how about the FO3 games then?  More then shooting still but yah same deal when it comes to opening up their awesome game & platform to invite the modding community to create some amazing stuff.  Or...how about Crysis 1 vs The Mechwarrior:  Living Legends TC?  It was no longer really a first person shooter but damn man they made a full fledged multiplayer mechwarrior game out of Crysis's gorgeous engine.
 
2013-06-13 06:57:22 PM  
This PC gamer isn't celebrating the lack.  Frankly, I was hoping that the next-gen consoles would bring more to the table than a low-end gaming PC with a restrictive OS (and, in the case of one of them, the very same forms of draconian DRM I've fought so hard against on PC).  Say what you will about Nintendo, but they seem to be the only people who are still trying to make something different.
 
2013-06-13 06:58:35 PM  
I think what the PC users fail to notice is the convenience of the console.  I used to be a hard core gamer in my teens, had my own custom rig, kept up with the joneses on all the hardware and latest drivers etc.

Looking back on it, all of that was necessary in order to keep my gaming high going.  That's not the case with a console.  All I'm required to do once I own the console is just get the latest software and nothing more.  That's huge for me now that I'm 28.

The graphics contrast between a PC and console is a non-factor to me at this point.  I think ALL graphics surpass what I require to enjoy the game.  Hell, look at Bioshock Infinite or Mass Effect or Battlefield  and all of these games are on this gen and simply awe inspiring visually.
 
2013-06-13 06:59:47 PM  

frepnog: Red Dead Redemption.


I have "killed" more people and animals playing that game than in all the Grand Theft Auto games combined. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I'd "killed" more things in Red Dead Redemption than in all the other games I've played combined, including Borderlands.
 
2013-06-13 07:02:56 PM  

frepnog: BumpInTheNight: Does Skyrim count as an FPS?

not really, but is sort of is.  sort of.  no i guess it really isnt.  i mean it is first person and all and you can do some "shooting".


First person stabber?
 
2013-06-13 07:07:49 PM  

frepnog: LoR75: Also, Battletoads still gives me nightmares to this day.

I view Battletoads almost like I view Woodstock - if everyone that claims to have been damaged by Battletoads had actually owned that game, it would be a modern franchise with millions and millions of copies sold.

/most NES owners never actually played Battletoads.  Its infamy is almost soley based on internet Youtube videos and ROM playthrus.


Eh, if I could use Obama's time machine, I would go back and show you the frustration that game gave me, as well as the adulation of my peers for being the first person to beat Mike Tyson (and the only kid who had a gold Legend of Zelda cartridge).

Alas, I do not, so you'll just have to take my word for it.  Considering that 91 was my "sweet spot" for teenaged gaming (15 going on 16), and that I clearly remember Nintendo Power pimping it hard that year, most people my age who had an NES definitely would have played it.  It was THE game to have in 91, well that, and Tecmo Super Bowl, which I got later that year.

I never finished Battletoads, and I don't know anyone who actually did.  If ANYTHING, that's your "Woodstock".  People who said they finished it are mostly BSing, cause that game was impossible.
 
2013-06-13 07:08:24 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: I think what the PC users fail to notice is the convenience of the console.  I used to be a hard core gamer in my teens, had my own custom rig, kept up with the joneses on all the hardware and latest drivers etc.

Looking back on it, all of that was necessary in order to keep my gaming high going.  That's not the case with a console.  All I'm required to do once I own the console is just get the latest software and nothing more.  That's huge for me now that I'm 28.

The graphics contrast between a PC and console is a non-factor to me at this point.  I think ALL graphics surpass what I require to enjoy the game.  Hell, look at Bioshock Infinite or Mass Effect or Battlefield  and all of these games are on this gen and simply awe inspiring visually.


anecdotal and all, but i did the reverse - growing up was console only 99% of the time, now pc is my main machine

the reason being as you stated - drivers, settings, hardware upgrades, etc. became a barrier to enjoying games so i didn't put up with it, but since coming back to pc gaming 4 years ago it's been as painless as owning a console, with the added plus being better performance and cheaper games and no online fee

HeartBurnKid: This PC gamer isn't celebrating the lack.  Frankly, I was hoping that the next-gen consoles would bring more to the table than a low-end gaming PC with a restrictive OS (and, in the case of one of them, the very same forms of draconian DRM I've fought so hard against on PC).  Say what you will about Nintendo, but they seem to be the only people who are still trying to make something different.


i'm mostly in the same boat, i was aggravated at first that big publishers were abandoning the wii u but seeing their offerings lately i don't think it would've made a difference - they're dead set on making the same games all over again for next gen... nintendo is doing the right thing courting indie devs so heavily
 
2013-06-13 07:10:31 PM  

0100010: frepnog: BumpInTheNight: Does Skyrim count as an FPS?

not really, but is sort of is.  sort of.  no i guess it really isnt.  i mean it is first person and all and you can do some "shooting".

First person stabber?


Fist Punches & Swearing? (NSFW language)
 
2013-06-13 07:12:47 PM  
www.mopo.ca


/and how is it a FAIL, you Dirty Peasantmitter?
 
2013-06-13 07:14:35 PM  

nmrsnr: Yeah, technology hasn't changed at all from this:


FTFA: Meanwhile, the software is barely evolving at all (apart, of course, from graphical fidelity

Reading is hard.
 
2013-06-13 07:14:46 PM  

nmrsnr: CynicalLA: All new video cards come with a HDMI output just like consoles.

I didn't say it was hard, I said more annoying. Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs? I have a laptop that I like to be able to use from my table, my couch, my bedroom, and I use my PS3 as a media center to stream my media to the TV when I want to watch video from my computer on the TV screen, having to plug it in to the TV every time I want to play games is a step I don't have to take with just a console. Not a huge hassle, but why bother when the PS3 is already there?


I have a PC I built a few months ago on a $1000 budget from my tax return. HDMI to the TV, wireless mouse and keyboard, and WiFi. All I had to do to set it up was to leave the cables in place from the one I built about 4 years ago. I moved the old one (still capable of running most games) to my bedroom and replaced my daughter's computer with my old P4 bedroom computer. Everybody gets an upgrade.
 
2013-06-13 07:15:01 PM  

captainmaxthedestroyer: I think what the PC users fail to notice is the convenience of the console.  I used to be a hard core gamer in my teens, had my own custom rig, kept up with the joneses on all the hardware and latest drivers etc.

Looking back on it, all of that was necessary in order to keep my gaming high going.  That's not the case with a console.  All I'm required to do once I own the console is just get the latest software and nothing more.  That's huge for me now that I'm 28.

The graphics contrast between a PC and console is a non-factor to me at this point.  I think ALL graphics surpass what I require to enjoy the game.  Hell, look at Bioshock Infinite or Mass Effect or Battlefield  and all of these games are on this gen and simply awe inspiring visually.


Know how I know you're a bit unclear what a "hard core" console gamer is?  Here's a hint:

http://hacknmod.com/hack/5-ways-to-hack-your-xbox-360-controller/
http://www.avengercontroller.com/

A pc needs updating about as frequently as a console and for about the same amount gets more bang for the buck.  If you're "hard core" you're going to be spending extra money either way, whether it's $500 for a video card and high end mouse or fancy controllers and high-def TV screens.
 
2013-06-13 07:15:12 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Need a Dispenser Here: If you typically stick to AAA titles, he isn't wrong. The exception would be a few genres that are typically poorly implemented on consoles (RTS, flight sims). You aren't going to have a console version and a PC version of the same game where core game elements are different for something like an FPS, but let's see a console play something like http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/warthog/ using a controller.

Does Skyrim count as an FPS?  Its one of the few AAA titles that genuinely takes advantage of the 'next-gen' features of PCs and I ain't talkin about the eye-candy.  (mods, mods mods mods & more mods all created using the web 2.0 user-generated massive community at nexus).  Of course Bethesda is one of the few larger dev houses that 'gets it' when it comes to exploiting the power of the PC gaming community.

First Person Swording?  Flaming Poker Sticks?


Hah, I knew I'd get called out on mods. 

I was thinking more along the lines of games without mods. Say... Borderlands or Dishonored.

Why someone who owns a PC would purchase a console copy instead of a PC copy of a Bethesda RPG bewilders me.
 
2013-06-13 07:17:47 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: You don't remember calibrating analog [pre-usb] joysticks, do you? I'll admit, I'd much rather play wing commander with a joystick and keyboard. Not so sure about commander keen (a console controller would have been better. Didn't get a PC compatible one till much later). Ditto for virtua fighter/virtua fighter 2, which were pretty useless when I got a ergonomic split keyboard. It took awhile before the mouse completely eliminated the joystick: I guess it mostly took the death of the spaceflight genre (wing commander and X-wing) and the complete replacement of DOS gaming with direct-X (which took sometime even after win95).


I played with some joysticks (both the arcade- and flight-sim-inspired kinds) and a couple of third-party console-styled controllers, but I stuck with the mouse-and-keyboard setup for the most part.  And believe me, there's nothing wrong with using a joystick-keyboard setup for flight simulators.  I think too many people have adopted the point of view that the mouse-keyboard setup is the best platform because it's typically the most accurate.  I would rather play a flight simulator with an input device that, you know, actually simulates flight.

yet_another_wumpus: I have no idea if I played civilization 1 without a mouse or not (I can't imagine it now). I must have started nearly at the same time as I bought my first mouse. No such issues with wolfenstein (or any FPS), warcraft (or any RTS*). If you think these games would be limited on console, try playing any MUD from the time (or Cthulhu help you, Zork) without a keyboard. By now, I can't imagine any game I'd rather play on a console. Port a fighting game and I'll try to plug in a console controller, anything else I'll use either a keyboard and mouse or non-standard USB controller (wheel/"guitar"/joystick).


Computers will always have that advantage, but it's always been about designing games for the peripherals that people have.  Computers may be able to use any input device, but you're not getting those fast-paced action games without console and arcade input to standardize and subsidize control schemes which can then be replicated by the small percentage of computer users who desire them.  That's why the ubiquitous mouse-and-keyboard did a much better job of establishing the identity of computer video games than the optional joystick ever could have.
 
2013-06-13 07:18:12 PM  

0100010: captainmaxthedestroyer: I think what the PC users fail to notice is the convenience of the console.  I used to be a hard core gamer in my teens, had my own custom rig, kept up with the joneses on all the hardware and latest drivers etc.

Looking back on it, all of that was necessary in order to keep my gaming high going.  That's not the case with a console.  All I'm required to do once I own the console is just get the latest software and nothing more.  That's huge for me now that I'm 28.

The graphics contrast between a PC and console is a non-factor to me at this point.  I think ALL graphics surpass what I require to enjoy the game.  Hell, look at Bioshock Infinite or Mass Effect or Battlefield  and all of these games are on this gen and simply awe inspiring visually.

Know how I know you're a bit unclear what a "hard core" console gamer is?  Here's a hint:

http://hacknmod.com/hack/5-ways-to-hack-your-xbox-360-controller/
http://www.avengercontroller.com/

A pc needs updating about as frequently as a console and for about the same amount gets more bang for the buck.  If you're "hard core" you're going to be spending extra money either way, whether it's $500 for a video card and high end mouse or fancy controllers and high-def TV screens.


Spray painting your controller makes you a hardcore console gamer?
 
2013-06-13 07:22:29 PM  

Need a Dispenser Here: 0100010: captainmaxthedestroyer: I think what the PC users fail to notice is the convenience of the console.  I used to be a hard core gamer in my teens, had my own custom rig, kept up with the joneses on all the hardware and latest drivers etc.

Looking back on it, all of that was necessary in order to keep my gaming high going.  That's not the case with a console.  All I'm required to do once I own the console is just get the latest software and nothing more.  That's huge for me now that I'm 28.

The graphics contrast between a PC and console is a non-factor to me at this point.  I think ALL graphics surpass what I require to enjoy the game.  Hell, look at Bioshock Infinite or Mass Effect or Battlefield  and all of these games are on this gen and simply awe inspiring visually.

Know how I know you're a bit unclear what a "hard core" console gamer is?  Here's a hint:

http://hacknmod.com/hack/5-ways-to-hack-your-xbox-360-controller/
http://www.avengercontroller.com/

A pc needs updating about as frequently as a console and for about the same amount gets more bang for the buck.  If you're "hard core" you're going to be spending extra money either way, whether it's $500 for a video card and high end mouse or fancy controllers and high-def TV screens.

Spray painting your controller makes you a hardcore console gamer?


So,  I take it you didn't read #2 from the first link or even check out the second at all.  Here's a hint for the first one, look for the term "rapid fire" and for the second, take note of the differences between that controller and a stock 360 controller.
 
2013-06-13 07:22:34 PM  

Need a Dispenser Here: Spray painting your controller makes you a hardcore console gamer?


I'd say it makes you crafty.

/Congrats, you're as hardcore as Martha Stewart.
 
2013-06-13 07:25:02 PM  

0100010: look for the term "rapid fire" and for the second


Back in my day, when we had auto-fire joysticks for the Commodore 64, we had a term for that...  "farking cheating"

/I'll kindly ask you to take your sneakers a respectable distance away from my front yard
 
2013-06-13 07:25:03 PM  

0100010: captainmaxthedestroyer: I think what the PC users fail to notice is the convenience of the console.  I used to be a hard core gamer in my teens, had my own custom rig, kept up with the joneses on all the hardware and latest drivers etc.

Looking back on it, all of that was necessary in order to keep my gaming high going.  That's not the case with a console.  All I'm required to do once I own the console is just get the latest software and nothing more.  That's huge for me now that I'm 28.

The graphics contrast between a PC and console is a non-factor to me at this point.  I think ALL graphics surpass what I require to enjoy the game.  Hell, look at Bioshock Infinite or Mass Effect or Battlefield  and all of these games are on this gen and simply awe inspiring visually.

Know how I know you're a bit unclear what a "hard core" console gamer is?  Here's a hint:

http://hacknmod.com/hack/5-ways-to-hack-your-xbox-360-controller/
http://www.avengercontroller.com/

A pc needs updating about as frequently as a console and for about the same amount gets more bang for the buck.  If you're "hard core" you're going to be spending extra money either way, whether it's $500 for a video card and high end mouse or fancy controllers and high-def TV screens.


sure, i spent more money on PS3 gaming over the course of 4 years than i have on PC gaming over the course of 4 years (hardware purchase included) easily

examples include: buying a 60gb PS3 in 2007 - which taxes and game included cost me over $700, extra controllers multiple times because i bought extra sixaxis controllers before they released dualshock, blu-ray remote, pseye, and then dozens upon dozens of $60 games brand new

really, spending a lot of money is an attitude - not a platform choice, anybody can spend as much as they want on anything
 
2013-06-13 07:27:54 PM  

LoR75: Eh, if I could use Obama's time machine, I would go back and show you the frustration that game gave me, as well as the adulation of my peers for being the first person to beat Mike Tyson (and the only kid who had a gold Legend of Zelda cartridge).

Alas, I do not, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Considering that 91 was my "sweet spot" for teenaged gaming (15 going on 16), and that I clearly remember Nintendo Power pimping it hard that year, most people my age who had an NES definitely would have played it. It was THE game to have in 91, well that, and Tecmo Super Bowl, which I got later that year.

I never finished Battletoads, and I don't know anyone who actually did. If ANYTHING, that's your "Woodstock". People who said they finished it are mostly BSing, cause that game was impossible.


i believe you.  I had one friend with the gold Zelda.  I personally was the only one that had Metal Gear.  I had one friend that had Blaster Master.  None of us ever had Battletoads.  One of us had that gaddammed TNMT game tho and that was a frikin hair puller.
 
2013-06-13 07:28:26 PM  

CynicalLA: Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.

Wrong on all accounts.  Hopefully sarcasm.


Yeah, I almost bit on that tasty Troll sandwich.

/said sitting on my couch where I do all my pc gaming on my nice, bit television.  Keyboard on lap and mouse at my side.
//short slashy due to my long one.
 
2013-06-13 07:31:57 PM  
Don't care either way.  Got my PC for Western releases, and a Playstation for Japanese releases.  All is right with the world.
 
2013-06-13 07:37:55 PM  

Mercutio74: 0100010: look for the term "rapid fire" and for the second

Back in my day, when we had auto-fire joysticks for the Commodore 64, we had a term for that...  "farking cheating"

/I'll kindly ask you to take your sneakers a respectable distance away from my front yard


I'm not exactly thrilled with that stuff.  I'm a stock player and continually gripe when some BF3 turkey jumps up and unloads a pistol clip into me at a rate faster than a smg can.  However, I do recognize it as being something frequent within the "hard core" console community and thought I'd point out that a console is something that can be customizable by that sort of crowd.
 
2013-06-13 07:38:36 PM  
Yeah, but can you MAKE games on your consoles?  I didn't think so.
 
2013-06-13 07:44:38 PM  

xria: ProfessorOhki: The one thing that hurts PC though is that it's so ubiquitous. Most PC games will get a console port. It might be lesser quality, but it'll usually be playable

Err, what? The total number of games that exists for the PS2 (to take the console with probably the highest number) is somewhere around 2500-3000. I own nearly 2000 PC games myself and I have barely scratched the surface.

Don't you mean the thing that hurts consoles is that almost all their games will also appear on the PC, even if it is a crappy port?


I'm talking about the current gen and especially the next gen. They're so similar to a PC architecture wise, you're going to see a lot of ports both ways but you're going to see more exclusive AAA releases on XBone/PS4 than PC specifically because there's no organization trying to secure PC exclusive developers. Things like Diablo and FF XIV are coming to consoles now. But you know there's no way you're going to see Smash Bros, Forza, God of War pop up on a PC. Outside of stuff that has a strong practical barrier, like an RTS, you won't see many PC-only titles. The only reason you're seeing the Halo franchise on other platforms is so MS can push Winphone, Surface, and later on probably force folks to Win 8 by imposing DirectX11.1 requirements on 'em.

Basically, the console market has become too important to ignore and there's no one really pushing to get exclusives for PC. Things that ARE exclusive to PC are going to be things that absolutely require mouse support, or indie release so small they can't get on PSN/XBLA or equivalent (which is becoming less prevalent than it was).

That said, the exclusive thing hurts every console to some degree, but it hits PC the hardest.
 
2013-06-13 07:47:05 PM  

0100010: Need a Dispenser Here: 0100010: captainmaxthedestroyer: I think what the PC users fail to notice is the convenience of the console.  I used to be a hard core gamer in my teens, had my own custom rig, kept up with the joneses on all the hardware and latest drivers etc.

Looking back on it, all of that was necessary in order to keep my gaming high going.  That's not the case with a console.  All I'm required to do once I own the console is just get the latest software and nothing more.  That's huge for me now that I'm 28.

The graphics contrast between a PC and console is a non-factor to me at this point.  I think ALL graphics surpass what I require to enjoy the game.  Hell, look at Bioshock Infinite or Mass Effect or Battlefield  and all of these games are on this gen and simply awe inspiring visually.

Know how I know you're a bit unclear what a "hard core" console gamer is?  Here's a hint:

http://hacknmod.com/hack/5-ways-to-hack-your-xbox-360-controller/
http://www.avengercontroller.com/

A pc needs updating about as frequently as a console and for about the same amount gets more bang for the buck.  If you're "hard core" you're going to be spending extra money either way, whether it's $500 for a video card and high end mouse or fancy controllers and high-def TV screens.

Spray painting your controller makes you a hardcore console gamer?

So,  I take it you didn't read #2 from the first link or even check out the second at all.  Here's a hint for the first one, look for the term "rapid fire" and for the second, take note of the differences between that controller and a stock 360 controller.


I saw #2. Pretty neat. Also, quite the scrub tactic. No need to be faster than your opponent if you can have a little circuit do it for you. Certainly hardcore.
 
2013-06-13 07:47:07 PM  

frepnog: LoR75: Eh, if I could use Obama's time machine, I would go back and show you the frustration that game gave me, as well as the adulation of my peers for being the first person to beat Mike Tyson (and the only kid who had a gold Legend of Zelda cartridge).

Alas, I do not, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Considering that 91 was my "sweet spot" for teenaged gaming (15 going on 16), and that I clearly remember Nintendo Power pimping it hard that year, most people my age who had an NES definitely would have played it. It was THE game to have in 91, well that, and Tecmo Super Bowl, which I got later that year.

I never finished Battletoads, and I don't know anyone who actually did. If ANYTHING, that's your "Woodstock". People who said they finished it are mostly BSing, cause that game was impossible.

i believe you.  I had one friend with the gold Zelda.  I personally was the only one that had Metal Gear.  I had one friend that had Blaster Master.  None of us ever had Battletoads.  One of us had that gaddammed TNMT game tho and that was a frikin hair puller.


HAHA!  I remember that TMNT game.  Oh my lord was that ever hard as well.  I did end up finishing that one though.

I did not have Metal Gear, but had a friend who did, but I never played it. I think I borrowed Blaster Master from a friend and never gave it back.

The one game though that everyone wanted (and I had a friend steal it from me, before I was able to get it back) was Baseball Stars.  I would be up until ungodly hours of the night playing that game, creating teams, and the sort.

I still wish I could play a very good version of Baseball Stars with a controller.

Looking back, I realize my parents spoiled the shiat out of me when it came to videogames.
 
2013-06-13 07:47:19 PM  

frepnog: LoR75: Eh, if I could use Obama's time machine, I would go back and show you the frustration that game gave me, as well as the adulation of my peers for being the first person to beat Mike Tyson (and the only kid who had a gold Legend of Zelda cartridge).

Alas, I do not, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Considering that 91 was my "sweet spot" for teenaged gaming (15 going on 16), and that I clearly remember Nintendo Power pimping it hard that year, most people my age who had an NES definitely would have played it. It was THE game to have in 91, well that, and Tecmo Super Bowl, which I got later that year.

I never finished Battletoads, and I don't know anyone who actually did. If ANYTHING, that's your "Woodstock". People who said they finished it are mostly BSing, cause that game was impossible.

i believe you.  I had one friend with the gold Zelda.  I personally was the only one that had Metal Gear.  I had one friend that had Blaster Master.  None of us ever had Battletoads.  One of us had that gaddammed TNMT game tho and that was a frikin hair puller.


I got to level 11 of Battletoads once.

Once.
 
2013-06-13 07:50:08 PM  

dehehn: Yeah, but can you MAKE games on your consoles?  I didn't think so.


storage.siliconera.com

Technically...
 
2013-06-13 07:51:34 PM  

dehehn: Yeah, but can you MAKE games on your consoles?  I didn't think so.


that isn't really true.  The next LittleBigPlanet is going to pretty much let you make a game.  I think previous iterations did as well.  Is it PC level tools?  Probably not, but there is more there to do than you might be aware.
 
2013-06-13 08:12:58 PM  

LoR75: Looking back, I realize my parents spoiled the shiat out of me when it came to videogames.


mine did too, part of which was my step dad, who loved video games.  We had the atari 2600 and 5600.  We had an odyssey 2 .  We had a Coleco.  We had an intellivision (with the speech module add-on) and an NES.  We had games out the arse. He got us a PC simply because he played 7th Guest at my aunt's house on her pc.  He bought Phantasmagoria Day One.  Hehe.
 
2013-06-13 08:14:34 PM  
I know nobody cares what I think, nor should you, but I think the Kinect was really cool, and if it weren't for the fact that the Kinect on the XBox One is on ALL THE TIME with no option to turn it off, I would be interested in an XBox One. I think with the improvements, that qualifies as an actually next-gen feature.

With the Playstation 4, being able to use the PS Vita as a controller or to play the entire game is a true next-gen feature, as are the improvements to XBox Smartglass.

Those are the kinds of things I would call next gen, and things I find attractive. I wouldn't buy the XBox One, though, because of the privacy, DRM, and used game issues.
 
2013-06-13 08:16:27 PM  

HeartBurnKid: nmrsnr: Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs?

I do.


Yes.  HDMI connected.  I can use wireless keyboard/mouse and use my 50" TV to play games or stream movies/shows on it.  Don't typically play games on the TV as I have 27" 3D monitor that is pretty awesome to play games on.
 
2013-06-13 08:20:52 PM  

captainktainer: With the Playstation 4, being able to use the PS Vita as a controller or to play the entire game is a true next-gen feature, as are the improvements to XBox Smartglass.


www.nintendoworldreport.com

Not that I don't love the feature, but all that's really *new* about it is being wireless and handling it at the OS-level (or mandating devs implement it) instead of it being an optional gimmick.
 
2013-06-13 08:42:00 PM  
IVe been a PC gamer since 88 and still own consoles. Some games are just better on consoles and vice versa. I don't want to play Dark Souls on my PC and I don't want to play FPS's on consoles. THeres room for both.
 
2013-06-13 08:50:39 PM  

frepnog: LoR75: Also, Battletoads still gives me nightmares to this day.

I view Battletoads almost like I view Woodstock - if everyone that claims to have been damaged by Battletoads had actually owned that game, it would be a modern franchise with millions and millions of copies sold.

/most NES owners never actually played Battletoads.  Its infamy is almost soley based on internet Youtube videos and ROM playthrus.


You know about borrowing games, buying used, and game rentals right?
 
2013-06-13 08:50:40 PM  

Cyclonic Cooking Action: Console for arcade style games and PC for FPS, RTS and anything that requires more keystrokes than entering in your name once when you start the game.

I don't understand why people like playing FPS's with sticks.

\PC
\\PS3
\\\XBOX 360
\\\\Wii
\\Will probably buy the new ones too.


frigging THIS

/keyboard and mouse master race
//still loves the 360 and ps2 for fighting games
 
2013-06-13 08:55:26 PM  

pxlboy: //still loves the 360 and ps2 for fighting games


i have street fighter 4 and street fighter X tekken on pc and play them with an original xbox controller s modified with a USB connection.  Pretty great, actually.
 
2013-06-13 09:02:22 PM  
What if we separated hardware from software?

What if I could buy my hardware from anyone... including current console makers. And instead of needing to buy a ps3, I just purchase the platform software that runs on a partition of my machine.

I could have my windows crap, my xbox crap, my playstation crap all running off one box.

The concept behind a console just seems so dated.

Why do I want to wait for a mass produced customized (but far from cutting edge) piece of crap proprietary console when I can use my modular upgradeable PC?

And wouldn't this be something that people like Sony and Microsoft would embrace?

Console engineering, production and support eats up a lot of their funding (they're just middle men to the same hardware manufacturers we already buy PC components from). The money has never been in the console itself, it's always been in the software.

So why not let the Playstations and Sonys focus on the software and games and let the hardware manufacturers worry about selling the hardware (which they are already doing anyways)?

Is this something that is likely in the future? Because it sounds like a natural progression/evolution.

Or am I naive to console-maker logistics and business models?
 
2013-06-13 09:04:14 PM  

frepnog: pxlboy: //still loves the 360 and ps2 for fighting games

i have street fighter 4 and street fighter X tekken on pc and play them with an original xbox controller s modified with a USB connection.  Pretty great, actually.


Nice. My girlfriend bought us SF X Tekken and got me a copy of Capcom vs SNK 2 as a surprise gift.

Everything in its place.
 
2013-06-13 09:06:12 PM  
Why does that guy think Sony and Microsoft is after his type of consumer? Yes, "gamers" win out with the mods and indie developers, but that's not the people the mainstream stuff is marketed towards.
They're perfectly happy with Halo 53 and Madden '13 (now with a different font than Madden '12!) and aren't concerned with stuff like innovation or change.
That's not to say there aren't great games on consoles, it's just that those aren't the ones to come to mind when this "video game news" is in Business Week or CNN.
 
2013-06-13 09:06:38 PM  

frepnog: did anyone else read the ridiculous article in last month's game informer magazine about how current insanely powerful PC's are not true next gen gaming because all games have to be cut down to also work on the consoles?

It was the funniest bunch of bullshiat I had read in awhile.

in part -


"DISPELLING THE MYTH (title): When Sony revealed the PS4, I read some of the comments regarding the console online and noticed that one persistent myth kept appearing - current PC games are already next generation. That's simply not true.


The reality is that high-end PC is a small market for developers and publishers, although it has seen some significant growth over the last few years. I played Crysis 3, and it's a beautiful game. However, at its core Crysis 3 was also designed to run on current consoles and less powerful PCs. Every graphical enhancement you see on a high-end PC, no matter how pretty it is, is just eye candy. Crytek could not design levels and enemies that would impact gameplay unless those elements would also work on Xbox 360 and PS3. Core design has to work on all systems, which limits developers working on today's consoles compared to those who are working on next-generation consoles.
Games like Diablo III, Watch Dogs, and Destiny are going to look better on next generation of consoles. However, they are not, at their core, going to be very different today's games unless exclusive content is released for the new consoles. For example, Destiny's PS4-exclusive content might be something that pushes gameplay that wouldn't be possible on current-gen consoles."


How is this wrong? This is basically the core complaint of most PC gamers I know. For the last 7 odd years, machines with 512MB of ram with processors and GPUs from 2005 have been the lead platforms for virtually every major gaming release. It's not just a matter of graphics; AI, and in a related issue number of active entities on screen, level complexity, physics, all of these thing have been held back for  years by the horsepower of the consoles. PC games have looked prettier, when developers put in the effort for the ports, but the everything else has been just as stagnate as it's been on consoles. It's nice at least to finally have a much higher baseline to start at again before the same thing starts happening in another few years.
 
2013-06-13 09:16:40 PM  

frepnog: LoR75: Looking back, I realize my parents spoiled the shiat out of me when it came to videogames.

mine did too, part of which was my step dad, who loved video games.  We had the atari 2600 and 5600.  We had an odyssey 2 .  We had a Coleco.  We had an intellivision (with the speech module add-on) and an NES.  We had games out the arse. He got us a PC simply because he played 7th Guest at my aunt's house on her pc.  He bought Phantasmagoria Day One.  Hehe.


That's amazing. Yeah, I had a Coleco Vision, then got the expansion module to play Atari games as well as the sports controllers that allowed me to play Rocky and Baseball.  For Xmas, my parents got me the NES with ROB and the light gun.  My parents got me every system up to the PS1.  That was the first system I purchased with my own money.

I had a 486 pc that I was allowed to keep in my room.

Being the oldest of 3 definitely had its privileges.
 
2013-06-13 09:18:52 PM  

LoR75: frepnog: LoR75: Looking back, I realize my parents spoiled the shiat out of me when it came to videogames.

mine did too, part of which was my step dad, who loved video games.  We had the atari 2600 and 5600.  We had an odyssey 2 .  We had a Coleco.  We had an intellivision (with the speech module add-on) and an NES.  We had games out the arse. He got us a PC simply because he played 7th Guest at my aunt's house on her pc.  He bought Phantasmagoria Day One.  Hehe.

That's amazing. Yeah, I had a Coleco Vision, then got the expansion module to play Atari games as well as the sports controllers that allowed me to play Rocky and Baseball.  For Xmas, my parents got me the NES with ROB and the light gun.  My parents got me every system up to the PS1.  That was the first system I purchased with my own money.

I had a 486 pc that I was allowed to keep in my room.

Being the oldest of 3 definitely had its privileges.


Oh, man... I remember the Colecovision.

Good times.
 
2013-06-13 09:19:20 PM  

HalEmmerich: How is this wrong? This is basically the core complaint of most PC gamers I know.


because Pc developers do not HAVE to work with those limits.  Crysis the first was no farking console game.

/crappy game.  but no console game.  The original Far Cry was certainly not built with the consoles of the time in mind.  point is that current PC hardware still outclasses the yet-to-be-released consoles.  They are in every way next gen.  The graphics chipsets in the new consoles are already 2 years out of date based on currently and soon to be available PC graphics cards.  The ability to create next gen pc games has been there for quite sometime.  Developers being lazy and just creating for the lowest common denominator and porting that does not mean they didn't already have far more powerful machines to create with.
 
2013-06-13 09:22:33 PM  

MrHappyRotter: frepnog: LoR75: Also, Battletoads still gives me nightmares to this day.

I view Battletoads almost like I view Woodstock - if everyone that claims to have been damaged by Battletoads had actually owned that game, it would be a modern franchise with millions and millions of copies sold.

/most NES owners never actually played Battletoads.  Its infamy is almost soley based on internet Youtube videos and ROM playthrus.

You know about borrowing games, buying used, and game rentals right?


Microsoft doesn't, apparently.

/rented Battletoads several times
 
2013-06-13 09:22:35 PM  

MurphyMurphy: Why do I want to wait for a mass produced customized (but far from cutting edge) piece of crap proprietary console when I can use my modular upgradeable PC?

And wouldn't this be something that people like Sony and Microsoft would embrace?

Console engineering, production and support eats up a lot of their funding (they're just middle men to the same hardware manufacturers we already buy PC components from). The money has never been in the console itself, it's always been in the software.

So why not let the Playstations and Sonys focus on the software and games and let the hardware manufacturers worry about selling the hardware (which they are already doing anyways)?

Is this something that is likely in the future? Because it sounds like a natural progression/evolution.

Or am I naive to console-maker logistics and business models?


Because neither MS nor Sony are the developers of most of the titles? They get the console out there, then they sell development tools and licenses to third parties who assume nearly all the risk. If everything went PC, Sony could sell their first-party studio titles, but they'd be missing out on all that other profit. For example, Sony and MS would never see a dime from Call of Duty, Madden, etc. That would be 100% EA's for the taking.

That's sort of like saying, "why doesn't Apple just run Android on the iPhone, they wouldn't have to develop an OS anymore and could sell the iTunes app on more handsets." Reason being, they'd be losing that 30% on every title sold through their app store on their captive platform.

Other thing is, imagine you layer it: hardware, firmware, OS, distribution, application, consumer. The person who has the most control over every subsequent layer is the one who holds the most control up to that point, including pricing and licensing. If Sony/MS have hardware-distribution, they can can control everything and steer the publishers/devs real hard. You put them up at the distro/application layers and they're at the mercy of the OS folks (which would limit Sony waaaaaay more than MS for obvious reasons). If they were pure software? Well, then you'd have Valve and Gamestop jerking them around without anywhere near as much leverage against the latter as they have now. This is the reason why you see them trying to expand into controlling distribution, not trying to control less of the pipeline.
 
2013-06-13 09:24:47 PM  

ProfessorOhki: For example, Sony and MS would never see a dime from Call of Duty, Madden, etc. That would be 100% EA's for the taking.


I take it back, CoD is Activision. The other giant steaming pile of publisher in the room.
 
2013-06-13 09:25:46 PM  
rpm:Doom was on console (1 year after PC)

Yes, it was, and it was complete and utter garbage compared to the PC version.  So your argument is equivalently complete and utter fail.
 
2013-06-13 09:30:45 PM  

pxlboy: Oh, man... I remember the Colecovision.


only ever had one damn game, buck rogers, but man it was cool.
 
2013-06-13 09:33:30 PM  

StrangeQ: rpm:Doom was on console (1 year after PC)

Yes, it was, and it was complete and utter garbage compared to the PC version.  So your argument is equivalently complete and utter fail.


A game whose PC version was buggy enough it was literally unfinishable. Therefore NES > PC even today.
www.myabandonware.com
/Bad logic is bad
//You should feel bad
 
2013-06-13 09:36:38 PM  

HeartBurnKid: MrHappyRotter: frepnog: LoR75: Also, Battletoads still gives me nightmares to this day.

I view Battletoads almost like I view Woodstock - if everyone that claims to have been damaged by Battletoads had actually owned that game, it would be a modern franchise with millions and millions of copies sold.

/most NES owners never actually played Battletoads.  Its infamy is almost soley based on internet Youtube videos and ROM playthrus.

You know about borrowing games, buying used, and game rentals right?

Microsoft doesn't, apparently.

/rented Battletoads several times


I figured it out, frepnog IS Microsoft.  Seriously, though, it seems like one hell of a giant leap to assume that most people didn't play a game (back in the day) because most people didn't own it.
 
2013-06-13 09:37:32 PM  

ProfessorOhki: StrangeQ: rpm:Doom was on console (1 year after PC)

Yes, it was, and it was complete and utter garbage compared to the PC version.  So your argument is equivalently complete and utter fail.

A game whose PC version was buggy enough it was literally unfinishable. Therefore NES > PC even today.
[www.myabandonware.com image 320x200]
/Bad logic is bad
//You should feel bad


No, it just goes to show that you can't polish a turd even by rolling it in gold pixy dust.
 
2013-06-13 09:40:07 PM  

James!: Tell you what I want to buy one box and then put a disk into it and the game works.  I don't want to have to know about video cards and sound cards and alien whatevers.

 
2013-06-13 09:42:38 PM  

cetacei: James!: Tell you what I want to buy one box and then put a disk into it and the game works.  I don't want to have to know about video cards and sound cards and alien whatevers.


and that's cool, I admit when it comes to food the LCD like Macdonalds is sufficient for me.  We all have our 'good enough' kind of things.
 
2013-06-13 09:43:13 PM  
HalEmmerich:
How is this wrong? This is basically the core complaint of most PC gamers I know. For the last 7 odd years, machines with 512MB of ram with processors and GPUs from 2005 have been the lead platforms for virtually every major gaming release. It's not just a matter of graphics; AI, and in a related issue number of active entities on screen, level complexity, physics, all of these thing have be ...

It isn't.  The sad thing is the even with 8 CPUs, they will be struggling to exceed the power of a[n overclocked] 2006 core2duo.  Actually, no matter how much the developers struggle, I doubt they will balance 8 threads enough to match the core2duo's power.  On the other hand, PC power hasn't exactly done much more than refine the c2d design, add more cores, and add in SMT (hyperthreading).  Current chips might argue 4 times the power, but balancing the threads at that level makes no sense on such diverse systems.  Main thread performance isn't much of a performance increase either.  Still, it still should be a big increase in CPU performance over the old consoles, and those CPUs are small, letting Sony deliver a much bigger GPU and still keep the price under control.

On the other hand, the GPU hasn't been obsoleted (yet), which is an improvement from the last go around.  It claims to match a 5870, which is still fairly advanced.  On some other site there was a claim that you could spend $400 on a PC and get that type of power, I managed $500 and had to use a nvidia 650 TI (close, but not quite 7870 graphics).  Of course the difference in price was the windows license: it might be a great computer without it, but don't really expect to run a gaming PC on linux :).  I'm also fairly certain that no amount of 7800GTX SLIfication (top of the line for 2005) could possibly match the PS4 GPU (could you do SLI in 2005?).

The final thing to take into account has been the stagnation of resolutions.  Sure, you can go beyond 1920x1080, but there is still a price premium, you have to buy more GPU to handle those pixels, and it isn't like I'm dreaming about higher resolutions the way I did with a CRT (the pixels just aren't easy to see).  This means that those GPUs are mostly cramming more and more detail into the display, because they have more than enough juice to simply paint all the pixels (something a PS2 could appear to do with SD, but ps3s and Xbox struggle with HD).  A 2005 computer might struggle with 1080, a PS4 developer will struggle to keep finding more things for the GPU to do at those resolutions.
 
2013-06-13 09:47:30 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Lsherm: I'm a master race PC Gamer, but I'll probably get both just because sometimes I like to chill on the couch and play games on a giant tv.  For whatever reason when I play PC games I like to be at my desk.  Playing a FPS with a controller is for rubes, but playing a racing game without a controller is for tards.

On a completely unrelated note, I just bought NoLimits roller coaster simulator and even though it's been out for ten years, I somehow missed it.  It's pretty cool.

Damn difficult to build your own coaster, though.  It's going to require some work.

Heh I bought Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 Deluxe just the other day via Steam, ah the nostalgia :)

/playing racing games without a G27 or equivalent and triple screen is fairly pedestrian, in my opinion as a fellow master race PC gamer :P


My current PC setup (largely for flight sim, but for everything else, too):
img19.imageshack.us

Racing wheels for the computer never felt right to me, I'm better off with a controller.  I can definitely see the advantage to three screens, but it would probably be lost on most console racing games.
 
2013-06-13 09:55:57 PM  

Lsherm: Racing wheels for the computer never felt right to me, I'm better off with a controller. I can definitely see the advantage to three screens, but it would probably be lost on most console racing games.


Really even with the pedals and stuff?  Some of the most entertaining car-based gaming experiences for me were things like TDU, Dirt1 and the glorious GTA4 with the G25, triple screen and drinks(very important for GTA4).  I agree the crap-ass racers that can't even do the triple aren't worth shiat but when you find a racer, FPS or flight type game that does triple and the peripherals its just one of those things you can return to or relax with.  I've caught myself just roaming around GTA4's city driving like a regular day, its pretty awesome.
 
2013-06-13 09:57:38 PM  

ProfessorOhki: StrangeQ: rpm:Doom was on console (1 year after PC)

Yes, it was, and it was complete and utter garbage compared to the PC version.  So your argument is equivalently complete and utter fail.

A game whose PC version was buggy enough it was literally unfinishable. Therefore NES > PC even today.
[www.myabandonware.com image 320x200]
/Bad logic is bad
//You should feel bad


that game was a shiatty port because it was a shiatty port, not because PC hardware couldn't handle it.  The console versions of Doom sucked because no matter what bullshiat they spouted about 32 or 64 bits or whatever the consoles simply did not have the power to run the game.  Hell, until the 360 versions, none of the console versions were particularly decent.  All were limited in some way.

MrHappyRotter: I figured it out, frepnog IS Microsoft. Seriously, though, it seems like one hell of a giant leap to assume that most people didn't play a game (back in the day) because most people didn't own it.


man I wish, then maybe I could actually afford one of the new consoles.  As it is I will just stick to my pc.  I am no console fanboy for Xobx.  I have owned ALL of the consoles and played the shiat out of my PS3 (traded the Wii for it) and admit freely that the PS3 was more powerful than the 360.  The 360 I don't think could handle Uncharted 2.  I think MS is farking up a bit with how they are doing things.  I would still buy the Xbone however because from what I have seen that is where the games that I would want to play will be, and I think alot of what the console is doing is really next level.  The PS4 is a nice machine but there is nothing going on there that I feel is really changing things, it is more "status quo".
 
2013-06-13 10:00:18 PM  
ProfessorOhki:

That makes a lot of sense. I suppose if they went that route, in the end the EA's and the like wouldn't even see the need for Sony or Xbox to be in the loop.

I'll just have to keep dreaming I suppose.
 
2013-06-13 10:03:08 PM  

LoR75: frepnog: LoR75: Also, Battletoads still gives me nightmares to this day.

I view Battletoads almost like I view Woodstock - if everyone that claims to have been damaged by Battletoads had actually owned that game, it would be a modern franchise with millions and millions of copies sold.

/most NES owners never actually played Battletoads.  Its infamy is almost soley based on internet Youtube videos and ROM playthrus.

Eh, if I could use Obama's time machine, I would go back and show you the frustration that game gave me, as well as the adulation of my peers for being the first person to beat Mike Tyson (and the only kid who had a gold Legend of Zelda cartridge).

Alas, I do not, so you'll just have to take my word for it.  Considering that 91 was my "sweet spot" for teenaged gaming (15 going on 16), and that I clearly remember Nintendo Power pimping it hard that year, most people my age who had an NES definitely would have played it.  It was THE game to have in 91, well that, and Tecmo Super Bowl, which I got later that year.

I never finished Battletoads, and I don't know anyone who actually did.  If ANYTHING, that's your "Woodstock".  People who said they finished it are mostly BSing, cause that game was impossible.


Yep come part way through the third level it just couldnt be done. I maintain now like I did then that it was a poorly designed game that was basically broken. Even with a game genie parts of it were unbeatable.
 
2013-06-13 10:12:11 PM  

frepnog: pxlboy: Oh, man... I remember the Colecovision.

only ever had one damn game, buck rogers, but man it was cool.


lol, buck rogers?  shiat, I don't even remember that game.

The pack in was Ladybug if I recall.  Loved that one.

My favourites from that system were BurgerTime. Donkey Kong, Baseball and Mr. Do.  I know I am missing a few though.

Ahh, good times, things were simpler and more fun back then.
 
2013-06-13 10:38:34 PM  

LoR75: lol, buck rogers? shiat, I don't even remember that game.


it was a sort of "behind the ship" zaxxon type shooter.

www.colecovisionzone.com
 
2013-06-13 10:47:16 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Lsherm: Racing wheels for the computer never felt right to me, I'm better off with a controller. I can definitely see the advantage to three screens, but it would probably be lost on most console racing games.

Really even with the pedals and stuff?  Some of the most entertaining car-based gaming experiences for me were things like TDU, Dirt1 and the glorious GTA4 with the G25, triple screen and drinks(very important for GTA4).  I agree the crap-ass racers that can't even do the triple aren't worth shiat but when you find a racer, FPS or flight type game that does triple and the peripherals its just one of those things you can return to or relax with.  I've caught myself just roaming around GTA4's city driving like a regular day, its pretty awesome.


Well, I never had the pedals.  And now that you've put the bug in my head about it, I might try the G27.  God knows I've spent a small fortune on flight gear.
 
2013-06-13 10:50:16 PM  

James!: Tell you what I want to buy one box and then put a disk into it and the game works.  I don't want to have to know about video cards and sound cards and alien whatevers.


Interesting, tell me more about what it's like to live in 1996.
 
2013-06-13 10:58:38 PM  

ramblinwreck: HeartBurnKid: nmrsnr: Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs?

I do.

Yes.  HDMI connected.  I can use wireless keyboard/mouse and use my 50" TV to play games or stream movies/shows on it.  Don't typically play games on the TV as I have 27" 3D monitor that is pretty awesome to play games on.


Me too. Upgraded my HTPC with some older parts from my main 'work' PC in my office. It only has a Phenom II 810 X4 and a GeForce 285, but I can still play most games without issue and it also acts as my main media server (3x3TB HD's in RAID). Plug in my 360 controller and I go to town on most indie titles and a few slightly older ones (Arkham Asylum, Borderlands 2). I still do most of my FPS gaming on my main rig though, can't quite get a good setup for fast paced games with the mouse keyboard. Probably going to get an adjustable tray that sits on my lap next extra cash I get.
 
2013-06-13 11:09:59 PM  

YodaBlues: ramblinwreck: HeartBurnKid: nmrsnr: Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs?

I do.

Yes.  HDMI connected.  I can use wireless keyboard/mouse and use my 50" TV to play games or stream movies/shows on it.  Don't typically play games on the TV as I have 27" 3D monitor that is pretty awesome to play games on.

Me too. Upgraded my HTPC with some older parts from my main 'work' PC in my office. It only has a Phenom II 810 X4 and a GeForce 285, but I can still play most games without issue and it also acts as my main media server (3x3TB HD's in RAID). Plug in my 360 controller and I go to town on most indie titles and a few slightly older ones (Arkham Asylum, Borderlands 2). I still do most of my FPS gaming on my main rig though, can't quite get a good setup for fast paced games with the mouse keyboard. Probably going to get an adjustable tray that sits on my lap next extra cash I get.


Similar story here, except my GPU was purchased just for my HTPC.  Didn't spend much money on it; it's a 7750 I got for about $60 on Black Friday.  CPU is a Phenom II 960T.  It might need an upgrade once the new consoles come out and there's a new "baseline", but maybe not.  It handles pretty well.  Only problem is the janky controllers I got for it.  Last time I cheap out and get knock-off Datel controllers instead of something reputable.
 
2013-06-13 11:18:07 PM  

Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.


Is that pesos?
 
2013-06-13 11:21:25 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Only problem is the janky controllers I got for it.  Last time I cheap out and get knock-off Datel controllers instead of something reputable.


I think you can grab the wireless xBox 360 controller for a PC for $40.  It's worth it because you can also use the controller on the xBox.  Been using one for over a year and haven't had any problems, and it's pretty solid.
 
2013-06-13 11:28:40 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: nmrsnr:
Every console since NES has been exactly the same.

Except that Atari 400/800 owners (1979) weren't all that impressed with NES (1985).


As someone who was a kid in the 80s with an Atari 800XL with a huge library and then an NES with a decentish library, I have to disagree with this. I played the crap out of the Atari 8-bit games, and there were lots of great ones, but the NES simply blew me away with the level of on-screen action it could have. Huge levels, lots of sprites, etc. There were very few games that featured, say, smooth-scrolling platforming like Super Mario or lots of on-screen enemies like Legend of Zelda. And the NES could do it at a higher resolution with more colors, and often better music as well (although that could probably be chalked up to the NES having more professionally-developed games vs. all the Atari shareware I had from random programmers who weren't musicians). There absolutely were some amazing Atari games that were never matched though (Lucasfilm games, Star Raiders, Bill Williams games...).

I still play a fair number of games on both systems when I'm in a nostalgic mood, and I have extremely fond memories of them both, but for raw gaming pixel pushing power the NES definitely beat out the 8-bit Atari to an elementary-aged kid.
 
2013-06-13 11:52:46 PM  

nmrsnr: Yeah, technology hasn't changed at all from this:

[www.16bitsirens.com image 500x375]

to this:

[farm7.static.flickr.com image 640x358]

Every console since NES has been exactly the same.


And yet with each improvement they make, its still far inferior to what you can get out of a PC
 
2013-06-13 11:59:49 PM  

lordargent: [i3.kym-cdn.com image 700x400]


I'm nearly a glorious god gamer!
/don't have a Nintendo console
 
2013-06-14 12:04:02 AM  
Whatever you do, don't give microsoft your credit card information. Might as well be giving it to a nigerian prince.
 
2013-06-14 12:06:19 AM  

Practical_Draconian: Just wake me up when someone makes a new NHL hockey game for the PC. Even better if someone takes it away from EA if legally possible.

/haven't bought an Xbox 360 game in two or more years


Big Fat THIS
 
2013-06-14 12:28:34 AM  
Lost 2 years and gained 200 pounds to world of Warcraft lost 150 of the weight and gained a social life in the 18 monts after I deleted it.

/ got a 360 for xmiss played it about 3 times
 
2013-06-14 12:29:22 AM  
No one said consoles are going away, it's just that they have given up on 'hardcore gamers' aka actual gamers.
 
2013-06-14 12:32:55 AM  

traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]


/and how is it a FAIL, you Dirty Peasantmitter?


I have a mark there too. why is that????????

/am now subtly freaked out.
 
2013-06-14 12:54:41 AM  

MadSkillz: traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]


/and how is it a FAIL, you Dirty Peasantmitter?

I have a mark there too. why is that????????

/am now subtly freaked out.


You don't use proper wrist padding at your rig.
 
2013-06-14 01:17:26 AM  

lewismarktwo: MadSkillz: traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]


/and how is it a FAIL, you Dirty Peasantmitter?

I have a mark there too. why is that????????

/am now subtly freaked out.

You don't use proper wrist padding at your rig.


Hrm must be my work one. I don't use those gel wrist rests because they are as unergonomic as they come. So my wrist tends to hit the laminated wood desk.
 
2013-06-14 01:44:20 AM  
Joe. C, AKA Monstro, is a moron.

He thinks "whiskey" is spelled "whiskey" and not "whisky", and he thinks the perfect "whiskey" can be found on the south coast of England.

QED.
 
2013-06-14 02:57:45 AM  

James!: Tell you what I want to buy one box and then put a disk into it and the game works.  I don't want to have to know about video cards and sound cards and alien whatevers.


Tell you what... when I finish playing my game on my computer, I'm going to write a document in word... then I'm going to rip some CDs to play in my portable media player and a movie or two for my media center... then I'm going to build and animate some 3d models in 3d studio max or maya... then I'm going to surf the web and maybe download a movie or some music (legal of course)... then I'm going to edit some video and music... then do a little compositing... then some video conferencing... after that a little photo editing... then paint some artwork... and maybe design a logo. Then I can switch it over to DVR mode and watch some TV that I recorded earlier.

You, on the other hand, can play a game.

That's the difference... after I'm finished playing, I still have a real live honest to jebus computer that I can use for all sorts of nifty stuff that I built myself, for the same price as that console... and without microsh*t spying on me. And if I want to play "next gen" games, a simple upgrade of the old video card (which I can sell on eBay) usually does the trick.
 
2013-06-14 03:13:06 AM  

Cyno01: [fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net image 780x458]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 850x478]


That second one is a pretty hilarious wallpaper.
 
2013-06-14 05:14:55 AM  

MadSkillz: lewismarktwo: MadSkillz: traylor: [www.mopo.ca image 502x361]


/and how is it a FAIL, you Dirty Peasantmitter?

I have a mark there too. why is that????????

/am now subtly freaked out.

You don't use proper wrist padding at your rig.

Hrm must be my work one. I don't use those gel wrist rests because they are as unergonomic as they come. So my wrist tends to hit the laminated wood desk.


You wanna know what I use?  Two beer coozies stacked on top of each other.  Works a treat.
 
2013-06-14 06:37:57 AM  

Lsherm: BumpInTheNight: Lsherm: Racing wheels for the computer never felt right to me, I'm better off with a controller. I can definitely see the advantage to three screens, but it would probably be lost on most console racing games.

Really even with the pedals and stuff?  Some of the most entertaining car-based gaming experiences for me were things like TDU, Dirt1 and the glorious GTA4 with the G25, triple screen and drinks(very important for GTA4).  I agree the crap-ass racers that can't even do the triple aren't worth shiat but when you find a racer, FPS or flight type game that does triple and the peripherals its just one of those things you can return to or relax with.  I've caught myself just roaming around GTA4's city driving like a regular day, its pretty awesome.

Well, I never had the pedals.  And now that you've put the bug in my head about it, I might try the G27.  God knows I've spent a small fortune on flight gear.


Aye the wheel + pedals (and shifter if you're into that) are the full package and as needed as a joystick is for the flight games.  I've tried several  types of wheel offerings and I still think the Logitech G25/G27 types are the better ones.  They just feel more solid, the feedback on the wheel is good, the pedal box thing grips nicely to carpet and I gotta admit the leathery wheel grips pretty good too.  As an example:  My girlfriend who is by no means a gamer and particularly dislikes racing types games absolutely loves to roam around GTA4 using the wheel.  I remember it being somewhat of a hassle to setup with that particular game but nothing a quick google can't resolve.
 
2013-06-14 09:47:36 AM  

Hagbardr: nmrsnr: CynicalLA: All new video cards come with a HDMI output just like consoles.

I didn't say it was hard, I said more annoying. Do people have computers that are constantly connected to their TVs? I have a laptop that I like to be able to use from my table, my couch, my bedroom, and I use my PS3 as a media center to stream my media to the TV when I want to watch video from my computer on the TV screen, having to plug it in to the TV every time I want to play games is a step I don't have to take with just a console. Not a huge hassle, but why bother when the PS3 is already there?

I have a PC I built a few months ago on a $1000 budget from my tax return. HDMI to the TV, wireless mouse and keyboard, and WiFi. All I had to do to set it up was to leave the cables in place from the one I built about 4 years ago. I moved the old one (still capable of running most games) to my bedroom and replaced my daughter's computer with my old P4 bedroom computer. Everybody gets an upgrade.


I've got a similar situation.  Built a computer for about 800 back when PS3s were about 600 a pop and I've been continually upgrading over time.  Right now I have my computer desk in the same room as my TV so I've got a 25 foot HDMI cable running under along the edge of the wall to the TV.  No visual cables whatsoever and from there I have it set to constantly mirror the primary monitor display so that anything I bring up on my left monitor is being streamed out to the TV simultaniously so the worst thing I have to do is change the sound output to the HDTV and I'm set for whatever.  Add in a wireless keyboard/mouse/controller situation and really there's nothing stopping me from using it
 
2013-06-14 09:49:26 AM  
Ooh, the daily "PC vs. PS4 vs. Xbox One" thread is an OPINION blog about the PC this time, since we already had an Xbox One and PS4 thread this week, it's a refreshing change.

In any case, I'll just leave these here to anyone who wants to really game (and, well, anything else) on the TV:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009E6R89C
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004QRKWKQ

/After these one-time purchases, all PC upgrades now also upgrade my "console" gaming experience
 
2013-06-14 09:51:33 AM  

nmrsnr: Yeah, technology hasn't changed at all from this:

[www.16bitsirens.com image 500x375]

to this:

[farm7.static.flickr.com image 640x358]

Every console since NES has been exactly the same.


Bad example there slick...the former absolutely rocks the latter due to innovative story-telling and game play (for the time).  There's nothing new about Red Dead Redemption...that game utterly sucked on PS3 and improved graphics won't make it better.

/replaying FF7 gave me a more unique experience than my first time through RDD did...
 
2013-06-14 10:08:58 AM  

Lsherm: HeartBurnKid: Only problem is the janky controllers I got for it.  Last time I cheap out and get knock-off Datel controllers instead of something reputable.

I think you can grab the wireless xBox 360 controller for a PC for $40.  It's worth it because you can also use the controller on the xBox.  Been using one for over a year and haven't had any problems, and it's pretty solid.


Oh, I know.  The Datel controllers I have are for XBox.  I got them for half the price of the official controllers, and I think I was overcharged.  On one of them, the right analog tends to get stuck and keep moving even after I release it, and on the other, the left stick will sometimes go left or right, if it feels like it, but not consistently.  And no amount of calibration seems to fix this.
 
2013-06-14 10:20:20 AM  

lordargent: [i3.kym-cdn.com image 700x400]


^^ Someone who has enough money to spend on all systems because he has no girl to spend money on and Mom's basement is rent-free.
 
2013-06-14 10:22:05 AM  

ProfessorOhki: captainktainer: With the Playstation 4, being able to use the PS Vita as a controller or to play the entire game is a true next-gen feature, as are the improvements to XBox Smartglass.

[www.nintendoworldreport.com image 400x400]

Not that I don't love the feature, but all that's really *new* about it is being wireless and handling it at the OS-level (or mandating devs implement it) instead of it being an optional gimmick.


it depends on how well it works, the vita stuff is definitely gimmicky because of latency but nintendo did such a great job with the wii u that off-tv play or second-screen features should be required in every wii u game imo
 
2013-06-14 10:25:15 AM  

nmrsnr: Every console since NES has been exactly the same.


My inlaws actually believe this.
 
2013-06-14 10:26:00 AM  

Cytokine Storm: CynicalLA: Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.

Wrong on all accounts.  Hopefully sarcasm.

It was.  Last thread I tried over the top sarcasm as well but so many people bought into it, it made me have a sad.

In reality I do both, console and PC.  I've got a pretty elaborate (but not that expensive) setup after years of tinkering - both my consoles and primary gaming PC are hooked up to the same 1080p projector - so most of my game playing takes place from the couch regardless of machine, at 120" of life-size goodness.
Only time I really sit at a desk anymore is when I'm doing work.




Consoles mean waiting.

Waiting.

Waiting.

Can I play yet?
 
2013-06-14 10:39:26 AM  
This may be a good place to ask...I am giving up on my dedication to the Xbox, the 360 will be the last one I buy. I'm looking to get into the PC gaming instead, as I figure it can do anything and more that the PS4 or XB1 can do. My question is, how's my system looking?
Cheap-ass MSI motherboard,
Intel Core i3 550 @ 3.2 Ghz,
3 Gigs Ram,
EVGA GTX 650

Think this'll work? I am not too good with tech specs or knowing if I need a new processor/whatnot.
 
2013-06-14 10:40:30 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Lsherm: HeartBurnKid: Only problem is the janky controllers I got for it.  Last time I cheap out and get knock-off Datel controllers instead of something reputable.

I think you can grab the wireless xBox 360 controller for a PC for $40.  It's worth it because you can also use the controller on the xBox.  Been using one for over a year and haven't had any problems, and it's pretty solid.

Oh, I know.  The Datel controllers I have are for XBox.  I got them for half the price of the official controllers, and I think I was overcharged.  On one of them, the right analog tends to get stuck and keep moving even after I release it, and on the other, the left stick will sometimes go left or right, if it feels like it, but not consistently.  And no amount of calibration seems to fix this.


ah, the curse of third party peripherals.  They always suck, except for Logitech - the wireless original xbox controller I used to have was outstanding.
 
rpm
2013-06-14 10:40:46 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Oh, I know.  The Datel controllers I have are for XBox.  I got them for half the price of the official controllers, and I think I was overcharged.  On one of them, the right analog tends to get stuck and keep moving even after I release it, and on the other, the left stick will sometimes go left or right, if it feels like it, but not consistently.  And no amount of calibration seems to fix this.


And do not ever bother with Penguin controllers. Every single one that I've had has had stick issues like yours.
 
2013-06-14 10:49:27 AM  

croesius: This may be a good place to ask...I am giving up on my dedication to the Xbox, the 360 will be the last one I buy. I'm looking to get into the PC gaming instead, as I figure it can do anything and more that the PS4 or XB1 can do. My question is, how's my system looking?
Cheap-ass MSI motherboard,
Intel Core i3 550 @ 3.2 Ghz,
3 Gigs Ram,
EVGA GTX 650

Think this'll work? I am not too good with tech specs or knowing if I need a new processor/whatnot.


The video card is 'gaming lite' capable(good enough though, for sure), processor is good enough for most gaming (quadcores are little more standard issue but a 3.2Ghz I3 is still nothing to sneeze at).  What I'm curious about is where the odd amount of ram comes from:  Is it 4 sticks or 3?  If its 3 that's just an odd configuration in general and you'd be doing yourself a big favour to get rid of the single man out and replace it with another pair (DDR works at only half speed if its an odd amount of sticks)
 
2013-06-14 10:50:58 AM  
^^ Er and I wanted to say I went and looked up the processor before hand to make sure it was a dual channel controller rather then triple.
 
2013-06-14 10:56:56 AM  

frepnog: HeartBurnKid: Lsherm: HeartBurnKid: Only problem is the janky controllers I got for it.  Last time I cheap out and get knock-off Datel controllers instead of something reputable.

I think you can grab the wireless xBox 360 controller for a PC for $40.  It's worth it because you can also use the controller on the xBox.  Been using one for over a year and haven't had any problems, and it's pretty solid.

Oh, I know.  The Datel controllers I have are for XBox.  I got them for half the price of the official controllers, and I think I was overcharged.  On one of them, the right analog tends to get stuck and keep moving even after I release it, and on the other, the left stick will sometimes go left or right, if it feels like it, but not consistently.  And no amount of calibration seems to fix this.

ah, the curse of third party peripherals.  They always suck, except for Logitech - the wireless original xbox controller I used to have was outstanding.


Logitech's good, I agree.  I have a wired pad I use for my desktop when I game on there; it has an odd "floating d-pad" design that takes some getting used to, but it works great.

Hell, maybe I should forget the 360 controllers altogether and score a couple of wireless Logitechs.
 
2013-06-14 11:25:16 AM  
BumpInTheNight, thanks for the answer (this damn phone don't like quoting). The odd amount of ram is a mystery to me as well, it was an all-in-one kit I received as a gift a few years back. I have a feeling your idea of upgrading to a more nice, round number would be the ticket. I suppose if I want to do anything involving Frostbite 3, my first order of business would be to get Windows 7 and finally move away from XP.
 
2013-06-14 11:30:17 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Hell, maybe I should forget the 360 controllers altogether and score a couple of wireless Logitechs.


the biatch is that so many new games simply do not recognize any gamepad that is not the official Xbox pad.  That shiat pisses me off.  My PC gamepad is an original Xbox controller S modified with a standard USB plug.  It works great for the games that will actually SEE the damn thing.
 
2013-06-14 11:31:31 AM  

croesius: BumpInTheNight, thanks for the answer (this damn phone don't like quoting). The odd amount of ram is a mystery to me as well, it was an all-in-one kit I received as a gift a few years back. I have a feeling your idea of upgrading to a more nice, round number would be the ticket. I suppose if I want to do anything involving Frostbite 3, my first order of business would be to get Windows 7 and finally move away from XP.


Welcome for sure.  XP...likely XP32, ah that answers it:  There's a 50/50 you actually have 4GB of ram just the operating system only reports 3GB-ish of it due limitation of the OS.  A 32bit system can only address 2^32 of memory and that has to cover all memory including the various buffers and your video card's own, the left over is then mapped across your general system memory (leaving you with usually ~3GB).  If you're curious though you could install a little app called CPUz and it'll tell you all kinds of interesting (to geeks) information about your system, including the memory layout.
 
2013-06-14 11:32:03 AM  

frepnog: HeartBurnKid: Hell, maybe I should forget the 360 controllers altogether and score a couple of wireless Logitechs.

the biatch is that so many new games simply do not recognize any gamepad that is not the official Xbox pad.  That shiat pisses me off.  My PC gamepad is an original Xbox controller S modified with a standard USB plug.  It works great for the games that will actually SEE the damn thing.


The F310 I use actually supports XInput (can't use it on an Xbox, but you can use it on any PC game that supports Xbox gamepads), and I've seen a wireless version of it (the F710), so that's no worry.
 
2013-06-14 11:37:54 AM  

HeartBurnKid: frepnog: HeartBurnKid: Hell, maybe I should forget the 360 controllers altogether and score a couple of wireless Logitechs.

the biatch is that so many new games simply do not recognize any gamepad that is not the official Xbox pad.  That shiat pisses me off.  My PC gamepad is an original Xbox controller S modified with a standard USB plug.  It works great for the games that will actually SEE the damn thing.

The F310 I use actually supports XInput (can't use it on an Xbox, but you can use it on any PC game that supports Xbox gamepads), and I've seen a wireless version of it (the F710), so that's no worry.


i really hate having to use a goddamn wrapper to use a gamepad.  It really sucks that not only do so many games expect the xbox 360 pad but simply won't use a standard pc gamepad without having to futz around with it.  I actually applaud when I find a rare game that will just work with the pad I have.

Examples - FF7 re-release  - street fighter 4 - street fighter x tekken - burnout paradise city - The Walking Dead - all work with no mods or wrappers with my pad.
 
2013-06-14 11:39:27 AM  
CPUz, eh? I would definitely be interested in more data about my machine...as it is currently spread out across menus in System that disappear when you choose a different window...Dumb query, but when upgrading to Win7, could...could I go 64 instead of the 32 with my current architecture?
 
2013-06-14 11:40:33 AM  

frepnog: My PC gamepad is an original Xbox controller S modified with a standard USB plug.


How did you get that to work!?! I have a couple of games id prefer a gamepad for, dont feel like buying a 360 controller, but have modded s controllers that ive never been able to get working with Win7.
 
2013-06-14 11:42:04 AM  

croesius: CPUz, eh? I would definitely be interested in more data about my machine...as it is currently spread out across menus in System that disappear when you choose a different window...Dumb query, but when upgrading to Win7, could...could I go 64 instead of the 32 with my current architecture?


Absolutely, an I3 is fully 64bit capable and yah win7/x64 is quite a decent OS for sure.  If it turns out the system does have 4GB of memory I'd say that's suitable enough.  Similar to your other parts there's better but it'll do for sure.
 
2013-06-14 11:42:05 AM  

Cyno01: frepnog: My PC gamepad is an original Xbox controller S modified with a standard USB plug.

How did you get that to work!?! I have a couple of games id prefer a gamepad for, dont feel like buying a 360 controller, but have modded s controllers that ive never been able to get working with Win7.


there are drivers out there.  if I were at home I'd be more than glad to send you a link but right now that isn't possible.  I run Win7 64.
 
2013-06-14 11:46:52 AM  
Much obliged Bump! Once I get that, as well as a connector from my pc to tv, and a wireless key/mouse combo...my wife will miss me.
 
2013-06-14 12:56:41 PM  
That a competing product has flaws makes me feel better about my purchases because I am pathetic.
 
2013-06-14 12:59:17 PM  

Cytokine Storm: IT COSTS $4000 TO BUILD A GAMING PC YOU IGNORANT RUBES.  Then you are literally chained to a desk, there is NO WAY to plug it into a larger display and even if there was some crazy magic that let you, trying to use a mouse and keyboard on a couch is impossible, they just won't work that far away from the computer desk.  Technology just hasn't solved these problems yet.

I'll just stick to the nice and easy to use console.


Using a mouse and keyboard on your couch is awful, not to mention clunky.  My nintendo PC that I built sits right next to my 360, but I either use a 360 controller or a classic NES pad.  I save the keyboard and mouse for hunching over my desk with spreadsheets or games like minecraft and starcraft (all the crafts I guess) that simply need a mouse to work right.
 
2013-06-14 01:30:04 PM  

nocturnal001: That a competing product has flaws makes me feel better about my purchases because I am pathetic.


I built the Xbox 360 wireless adapter right into my gaming rig. It's USB, of course, but the dongle is a permanent fixture with most of the cable bundled inside the case.

As for keyboard/mouse, I generally use a trackball (much easier on a couch) and a wireless keyboard, but I also have an HTPC remote Air Mouse that has a keyboard built into it. It works pretty well when I don't want to type long rants.

image.dhgate.comMine doesn't have the Android on the mouse enable button; It's just a picture of a green mouse, instead.
 
2013-06-14 03:51:10 PM  

poot_rootbeer: baufan2005: Graphics have jumped greatly but I find that both console and pc games are becoming way too easy. It's almost to the point of if you can't beat a level or certain challenge the ai will do it for you.

Back in the day they didn't measure the scope of a single-player game in terms of hours, because how long it took you to see the ending -- or even whether you'd see it at all -- was a function of how well you had mastered the gameplay.

Sure, Super Mario Bros. may be theoretically beatable in under 5 minutes, but I'm betting as a 10-year-old you spent hours and hours and saw dozens of Game Over screens trying to get past the Hammer Brothers.  How many hours long in Super Mario Bros.?




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