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(The Daily Beast)   And the winner in the console wars is.... well, it wasn't even close. It's Sony   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 205
    More: Obvious, console wars, Xbox, Electronic Entertainment Expo, trade policies, technical writers, system console  
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7845 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Jun 2013 at 3:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-13 12:27:46 PM
i've been a loyal xbox owner since the first one back in 2001, but there's NO way i'll get an xbone. when it comes time to get a "next gen" console, it'll be a PS4. microsoft really screwed their customers (and themselves) on this one.
 
2013-06-13 12:34:03 PM
It's kinda sad when the easiest way to win the console war is to say you aren't changing anything. Microsoft screwed it all up, and it's entirely their fault. All Sony did was capitalize on it.

www.teampwnicorn.com
 
2013-06-13 12:38:25 PM
okay seriously.. did MS honestly not look at the name and think hmm..  no way anyone will mistake the way we mean this name to be said

X BONE

yeah,.. I aint evern boning my ex.. thanks.
 
2013-06-13 12:45:42 PM

FlashHarry: i've been a loyal xbox owner since the first one back in 2001, but there's NO way i'll get an xbone. when it comes time to get a "next gen" console, it'll be a PS4. microsoft really screwed their customers (and themselves) on this one.


I haven't talked to anyone planning on buying an XBox.  Most gamers I know are skipping consoles altogether. My daughter just spend about $500 on a pair of kick ass video cards, and the result is astonishing.
 
2013-06-13 12:45:52 PM
There are a few things that Microsoft could easily correct that would actually make this a contest, but they're too stubborn and ignorant to do them apparently.
 
2013-06-13 12:47:03 PM
Now the question will be, how does MS respond? Most of the gripes people have about the XB1 can be reversed through software changes. The question becomes, will they make those changes or stick to their guns?
 
2013-06-13 12:50:02 PM

exick: There are a few things that Microsoft could easily correct that would actually make this a contest, but they're too stubborn and ignorant to do them apparently.


See: Windows 8 Metro interface.
 
2013-06-13 12:51:13 PM
I'm leaning strongly towards the ps4. I know we'll eventually get both. But I've been really impressed with the playstation network, where you actually get more than just online playability and a few discounts for your $$. I've got a lot of free games via PSN.
 
2013-06-13 01:34:21 PM

Blues_X: I'm leaning strongly towards the ps4. I know we'll eventually get both. But I've been really impressed with the playstation network, where you actually get more than just online playability and a few discounts for your $$. I've got a lot of free games via PSN.


I'm hate the lack of reverse compatibility. There are a ton of PS3 games I've missed by not having one. I know that eventually they retooled the PS3 so that it could play a bunch of old PSX and PS2 games, but that was a few versions (and years) later. I'm not going to buy one at launch and buy another 18 months later when they upgrade it.
 
2013-06-13 01:45:29 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Most gamers I know are skipping consoles altogether.


i'm a casual gamer. i don't need, nor do i want, a "gaming pc." i just want a console that works and doesn't make you phone home every 24 hours.
 
2013-06-13 02:04:18 PM

kronicfeld: I know that eventually they retooled the PS3 so that it could play a bunch of old PSX and PS2 games, but that was a few versions (and years) later.


They actually did the opposite. When the PS3 was first released, it was able to play PSX and PS2 games out of the box. Originally it had hardware inside it that allowed it to play PS2 games. New models were introduced that took that hardware out and emulated the PS2 via software. Then the "slim" model was released and the ability to play PS2 games was completely removed. All models of the PS3 can still play PSX games. The only way to play PS2 games on the current models of PS3 is by purchase and download through the PSN Store of whichever games have been made available.
 
2013-06-13 02:06:41 PM

exick: They actually did the opposite. When the PS3 was first released, it was able to play PSX and PS2 games out of the box. Originally it had hardware inside it that allowed it to play PS2 games. New models were introduced that took that hardware out and emulated the PS2 via software. Then the "slim" model was released and the ability to play PS2 games was completely removed. All models of the PS3 can still play PSX games. The only way to play PS2 games on the current models of PS3 is by purchase and download through the PSN Store of whichever games have been made available.


Oh. Well sucks to that then.
 
2013-06-13 02:15:52 PM

kronicfeld: exick: They actually did the opposite. When the PS3 was first released, it was able to play PSX and PS2 games out of the box. Originally it had hardware inside it that allowed it to play PS2 games. New models were introduced that took that hardware out and emulated the PS2 via software. Then the "slim" model was released and the ability to play PS2 games was completely removed. All models of the PS3 can still play PSX games. The only way to play PS2 games on the current models of PS3 is by purchase and download through the PSN Store of whichever games have been made available.

Oh. Well sucks to that then.


Yea, they had a PS2 inside the PS3. Made it backwards compatible with almost all PS1 and 2 games. Could also play SACDs and run Linux. Sony screwed their customers over slowly and in small bits by taking that stuff away.  MS is doing everything wrong right away.

How arrogant can MS be? It's one thing to be arrogant... but to be wrong as well? Damn.
 
2013-06-13 02:17:02 PM

FlashHarry: i've been a loyal xbox owner since the first one back in 2001, but there's NO way i'll get an xbone. when it comes time to get a "next gen" console, it'll be a PS4. microsoft really screwed their customers (and themselves) on this one.


I've had Nintendo consoles, a PS1 and a PS2, but I went with the Xbox 360, mainly because Mass Effect was (at the time) exclusive to the 360.  I'm leaning towards a PS4, but only if they fix PS3 backwards compatibility, because there's a few PS3 exclusives I'd like to check out sometime.
 
2013-06-13 02:45:31 PM
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-13 03:25:59 PM

kvinesknows: okay seriously.. did MS honestly not look at the name and think hmm..  no way anyone will mistake the way we mean this name to be said

X BONE

yeah,.. I aint evern boning my ex.. thanks.


After looking at naked pictures of Betty White, I now have an X-bone.
 
2013-06-13 03:26:26 PM
Actually, I think they've sold the same number of units, so...yeah...why doesn't everybody just shut the fark up about it until, y'know...someone actually has one.
 
2013-06-13 03:27:38 PM
I've got no consoles in my house except a Wii the kids don't play much anymore.  I currently have no internet, even though I'll probably eventually get satellite. Yes, I live in the sticks and like it that way.

So I'm wondering what system I should consider.
 
2013-06-13 03:29:57 PM

kvinesknows: okay seriously.. did MS honestly not look at the name and think hmm..  no way anyone will mistake the way we mean this name to be said

X BONE

yeah,.. I aint evern boning my ex.. thanks.


Well, calling it the iPad didn't seem to hurt Apple, did it?
 
2013-06-13 03:30:41 PM
Nice boobs at the bottom of the article. WTF
 
2013-06-13 03:31:43 PM
I use a 15" standard PAL television, so I never even considered a 360 or PS3.  I might step into this generation eventually but it's bound to be as a very late adopter after the games aren't available new and the servers may no longer be up. Which rather kills the Xbone right from the start.

The WiiU does look like it has potential to do something different. Otherwise I'll stick with the PC, older consoles and handhelds.
 
2013-06-13 03:32:40 PM
i232.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-13 03:33:16 PM

Lando Lincoln: Actually, I think they've sold the same number of units, so...yeah...why doesn't everybody just shut the fark up about it until, y'know...someone actually has one.


I had to get to the bottom of the thread before I found this?
 
2013-06-13 03:34:19 PM

exick: kronicfeld: I know that eventually they retooled the PS3 so that it could play a bunch of old PSX and PS2 games, but that was a few versions (and years) later.

They actually did the opposite. When the PS3 was first released, it was able to play PSX and PS2 games out of the box. Originally it had hardware inside it that allowed it to play PS2 games. New models were introduced that took that hardware out and emulated the PS2 via software. Then the "slim" model was released and the ability to play PS2 games was completely removed. All models of the PS3 can still play PSX games. The only way to play PS2 games on the current models of PS3 is by purchase and download through the PSN Store of whichever games have been made available.


This. We finally bought a PS3 about a year ago. Got home anf learned that the PS3s are no longer backwards compatable, making that stack of games we were looking fowardthing to playing again useless.


Grrrr. Fark you Sony.
 
2013-06-13 03:34:56 PM

Kangaroo_Ralph: I've got no consoles in my house except a Wii the kids don't play much anymore.  I currently have no internet, even though I'll probably eventually get satellite. Yes, I live in the sticks and like it that way.

So I'm wondering what system I should consider.


No Internet, huh?

An Atari 7800. Since you're living in the 80's and all.
 
2013-06-13 03:36:41 PM

FlashHarry: i've been a loyal xbox owner since the first one back in 2001, but there's NO way i'll get an xbone. when it comes time to get a "next gen" console, it'll be a PS4. microsoft really screwed their customers (and themselves) on this one.


Pretty much this.
 
2013-06-13 03:39:03 PM
Sometimes my fellow gamers disappoint me. These are usual excuses / shill talking points i've been hearing lately:

1) "but...but...HALO! FORZA!". If you prefer the XB1's lineup, thats fine. But putting up with all those restrictions just for a handful of exclusives? That's like saying it's worth eating 5 courses of dog sh*t just to get some pie at the end. Especially when there are other courses available that don't make you eat dog sh*t to get pie at the end.

2) "but...but...SPORTS! TV! MEDIA!". You know, there are media centers that are a lot cheaper and less restrictive. For you're paying $500 for a glorified Roku box, you're a sucker.

3) "but...but...KINECT!" Have you actually played any Kinect games? 99% of them sucked. Everyone had this picture of Minority Report style interfaces, but if you ever played Steel Battalion:Heavy Armor on Kinect, you'd know that is far from the truth. And then there's the camera, watching you fap....

Honestly, I don't really want XB1 to fail, because competition spurs innovations and keeps prices down. But Microsoft isn't going to listen to us unless they hear us speak with our wallets. Buying this system just tells them that you like having your rights as a gamer restricted and removed.
 
2013-06-13 03:39:20 PM

DanZero: [img.photobucket.com image 640x563]


This is what happens when you let the people in charge of follow on sales dictate design and function.  I bet the only reason they don't deactivate the console if a new game isn't purchased every ten days is that legal is still looking into it.
 
2013-06-13 03:39:29 PM

southpawtn: Nice boobs at the bottom of the article. WTF


Wasn't going to read the article, let alone click it... Still haven't read the article.

/I'll be in my bunk...
 
2013-06-13 03:40:53 PM

Lando Lincoln: Actually, I think they've sold the same number of units, so...yeah...why doesn't everybody just shut the fark up about it until, y'know...someone actually has one.


How about "no!" Does that work for you?
 
2013-06-13 03:41:41 PM
I'm guessing since the ps3 debuted at, what was it, $699 originally? Xbone thought that $499 would be reasonable to set their price at. So I don't really blame them for that. However, they're just being greedy with the mandatory online check-ins and the non-sharing of games and what have you.

I have a wii because that's TRUE backwards comparability right there. Want nes, snes, or 64 games? Ten bucks a pop. Want to play game cube games? Our full size CD drive runs the minidiscs too, no problem! It helps me keep my entire collection of Nintendo games without having multiple consoles- very smart.

I have always been of the opinion that PS>Xbox, right from the get-go. I love my ps3, I got it when they went slim and dropped to $399. The Mister is chomping at the bit for a ps4. I don't blame him one iota.

The more I see of Microsoft, the more they're convincing me not to spend my money on them.
 
2013-06-13 03:42:06 PM
Let's not suck Sony's dick too fast.  Yeah, they actually gave something consumers wanted and not just offer something they wanted to offer because they can, like Microsoft did.

But Sony has lots of bodies in that closet if you want to take a look.  They are still an evil corporation that did pretty much the right thing this time.

/However hurray to Sony for offering  just a gaming console without too many concessions to screw the consumer.
 
2013-06-13 03:46:41 PM

Elegy: We finally bought a PS3 about a year ago. Got home anf learned that the PS3s are no longer backwards compatable, making that stack of games we were looking fowardthing to playing again useless.


Grrrr. Fark you Sony.


Buy a farking PS2 if you want to play PS2 games. You can still get them. Amazon has them for $124.00 (US). Yes, PS2 compatibility was built into the early units, but that became ever less meaningful to users as time went on as people with PS2 libraries would have (in a reasonable world) already purchased a PS3 during the first three years they were out.
 
2013-06-13 03:48:33 PM

Ambivalence: Now the question will be, how does MS respond? Most of the gripes people have about the XB1 can be reversed through software changes. The question becomes, will they make those changes or stick to their guns?


Just look at how they handled the Merto interface on Win 8. I predict they'll do the same here - stick to their guns until the majority have made the decision to pass on the product, and then belatedly give in. Economically it'll be too little, too late, but the data analysis will be used to show "see, it didn't improve things when we buckled" - which executives will use to justify the next stupid decision.

I figure they have two more runs like it before there's a serious upheaval in their senior management. Someone playing it right could slip into one of Microsoft's major markets when it happens.
 
2013-06-13 03:50:23 PM
Gordon Bennett
The WiiU does look like it has potential to do something different. Otherwise I'll stick with the PC, older consoles and handhelds.


So did the Wii.  The problem was that creative spark that you saw in some of the wii games created by nintendo didn't get exploited by the third party software companies very well.  It was mostly shovelware.

Nintendo wants to do something different, but too often they didn't offer as much as they could have and third party companies did step up to the plate.

/For the love of god, why wasn't there a star wars light saber game based on that wii sports sword game.  It shouted out too be made.
 
2013-06-13 03:51:53 PM
Maybe I am on the wrong end of the spectrum but why is no one even mentioning the wii u in any of these articles? It appears to be the least restrictive of the three gaming consoles and has some very well known, tried and true exclusives (and EA wont have anything to so with them, which is a plus in my book). It is also the only one offering true backwards compatibility with the last generation as well. I am well aware of the "kiddy image" hate that they have been getting for a while, but it seems to me that the only ones that worry about the kiddy image are the kids.
 
2013-06-13 03:52:06 PM
Nintendo wants to do something different, but too often they didn't offer as much as they could have and third party companies didn't step up to the plate.

ftfm
 
2013-06-13 03:52:51 PM

Elegy: making that stack of games we were looking fowardthing to playing again useless.


Looks like I'm going to be keeping my PS2 for another decade.
 
2013-06-13 03:53:48 PM
I'd think that people might want to wait until, I don't know, maybe until they're actually RELEASED before bestowing a crown on one of them?

Sure, the initial announcements look like Sony has the more consumer friendly console. But for all we know things can change, games can suck, the execution of the console can suck, etc.
 
2013-06-13 03:54:18 PM
Don't worry, Sony will find some way to fark it up.
 
2013-06-13 03:54:30 PM

DanZero: img.photobucket.com


The Netflix thing is way too trivial to include there. Who doesn't already have ten devices to watch Netflix? Between TV apps, Blu-Ray players, Roku and the like, there are a ton of ways to get that on your TV without using your video game system.
 
2013-06-13 03:54:54 PM
Am I the only one who realizes what Microsoft is trying to do? The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games. By forcing internet access and Kinect, games can be made with a whole new set of rules if companies can learn to take advantage of it. Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities, and with PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.

If I am buying a console to last me 8-10 years, I would rather have the one that has games and the new features. PS4 offers better graphics and larger games, but NOTHING NEW. Just off of the presentation Forza is incapable of being ported to PS4, as is Spark. Meanwhile Sony shows a total of ONE new ps4 exclusive game in 2 hours.
I understand that the Xbox One is only useful for a percentage of people at this time, but think about 6 years from now. The PS4 is locked into what it can do, while the Xbox can continue to outsource to the cloud for more power. Plus with Voice commands and Kinect built into every system, we gamers will see lots of interesting ideas that Sony cannot copy.

Xbox is the future for those that can deal with Microsofts BS. PS4 is the current generation warmed over again

/ own PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox 360, Wii
// will but a new system, but not this year.
/// want a Xbox for Crimson Dragon, and Titan Fall, and FFXV, and KH3
 
2013-06-13 03:55:08 PM
Bend Over Ballmer  (BOB), Sony's as hard as the Rock of Gibraltar.
 
2013-06-13 03:58:11 PM
I was getting kind of tired of PC gaming and was preparing to finally hop on the console bandwagon with this new generation. But with everything I'm hearing lately I think I'll save my money and just buy another video card...
 
2013-06-13 04:00:52 PM

Carousel Beast: I figure they have two more runs like it before there's a serious upheaval in their senior management.


Really? I think this will be the swansong of quite a few top execs, if not their entire PR department.
 
2013-06-13 04:01:14 PM

neritz: Don't worry, Sony will find some way to fark it up.


I like that everybody ignored when Sony said that DRM is possible and the console is shipping with it, they're just leaving it up to the publishers to decide to use it.
EA will use it. Activision probably will.

/part of the PC Master Race
 
2013-06-13 04:01:49 PM

kronicfeld: Blues_X: I'm leaning strongly towards the ps4. I know we'll eventually get both. But I've been really impressed with the playstation network, where you actually get more than just online playability and a few discounts for your $$. I've got a lot of free games via PSN.

I'm hate the lack of reverse compatibility. There are a ton of PS3 games I've missed by not having one. I know that eventually they retooled the PS3 so that it could play a bunch of old PSX and PS2 games, but that was a few versions (and years) later. I'm not going to buy one at launch and buy another 18 months later when they upgrade it.


The thing is, I understand why the PS4 won't have backwards compatibility for the PS3: making an emulator for it would be nearly impossible, at least so it would have even acceptable performance.  It isn't a case of a simple architecture change, the PS3 had subprocessors on its subprocessors (a point that drove many developers insane), whereas the PS4 is a more straightforward CPU architecture.  There's just no way to emulate all 14 (or whatever it was) independent subprocessors while keeping even acceptable performance levels.  That's why they're going the route they are, i.e. re-releasing PS3 games compiled for the PS4 system, because it's pretty much the only way it'll work on the current hardware.

Of course, it's Sony's fault for making the PS3 so godawful overcomplicated in the first place, hardware-wise, but it's not like they can undo that decision.

Lando Lincoln: Actually, I think they've sold the same number of units, so...yeah...why doesn't everybody just shut the fark up about it until, y'know...someone actually has one.


Yes, how dare we have the unbridled temerity to point out the gaping, bleeding bullethole that the Xbone put in its own foot.

Look, at this point on every possible metric you can think of the Xbone loses.  Number of console exclusives, overall system specs, price point, requirements to run, ease of use, backwards compatibility ("none at all ever" vs. "sort of eventually"), indie dev support... I literally cannot think of any way Microsoft's product has anything over Sony's.  It's not just not close, it's not even a contest to begin with. Unless Microsoft magically fixes all of the Xbone's shortcomings it is going to lose this time around, period.

Kangaroo_Ralph: I've got no consoles in my house except a Wii the kids don't play much anymore.  I currently have no internet, even though I'll probably eventually get satellite. Yes, I live in the sticks and like it that way.

So I'm wondering what system I should consider.


Probably stick with your PC.  Unless there's some game that is a console exclusive that you absolutely have to play, it doesn't sound like you really have a reason to get a console.

The only reason I own a 360 is because I was utterly captivated by Dead Rising and knew I'd also love some of the other games out for the 360 at the time.  If I hadn't bought it then, I would have when Rock Band first started getting big (Rock Band specifically, not Guitar Hero).  Unfortunately it looks like rhythm games are pretty much dead, and with no backwards compatibility I can't even play them on new hardware.  I'll probably be in the same boat as you for quite some time, at least until something awesome drops.

Gordon Bennett: I use a 15" standard PAL television, so I never even considered a 360 or PS3.  I might step into this generation eventually but it's bound to be as a very late adopter after the games aren't available new and the servers may no longer be up. Which rather kills the Xbone right from the start.

The WiiU does look like it has potential to do something different. Otherwise I'll stick with the PC, older consoles and handhelds.


One of the reasons I started looking at a 360 was because it offered a VGA adapter, which let me use it on my gigantic CRT monitor.  I'm sure this round of consoles will be offering similar adapters, not to mention how easy it is to turn HDMI into DVI.  If your computer monitor has multiple inputs then you don't have to buy a new TV.  Just a thought.
 
2013-06-13 04:03:21 PM

yukichigai: Yes, how dare we have the unbridled temerity to point out the gaping, bleeding bullethole that the Xbone put in its own foot.


You mean the gun that Microsoft is aiming at its foot.
 
2013-06-13 04:05:50 PM
#dealwithit
 
2013-06-13 04:07:00 PM

kronicfeld: DanZero: img.photobucket.com

The Netflix thing is way too trivial to include there. Who doesn't already have ten devices to watch Netflix? Between TV apps, Blu-Ray players, Roku and the like, there are a ton of ways to get that on your TV without using your video game system.


my ps3 just bricked 2 weeks ago and I just ordered a roku box.  $150 for Sony to fix the ps3 btw.  I was really hoping for a price drop announcement at E3.  Or backwards compatibility.  Remember when consoles didn't break?
 
2013-06-13 04:07:30 PM
Meanwhile the smart people will wait a year or so to see which console changes the most after release.

MS has a pretty decent history of adding features and functionality (or at least, not breaking anything) while Sony has a solid track record of "F*ck you" so it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the long term.

Everyone jumping around and screaming right now about which one is better before anyone even owns one is hugely amusing, though. I'll give you that.
 
2013-06-13 04:08:33 PM

Witty_Retort: neritz: Don't worry, Sony will find some way to fark it up.

I like that everybody ignored when Sony said that DRM is possible and the console is shipping with it, they're just leaving it up to the publishers to decide to use it.
EA will use it. Activision probably will.

/part of the PC Master Race


It's easy to ignore because no one ever said that. What they're doing now is exactly what it's been like. The companies that choose to implement DRM won't see a dime of my money (and that includes Microsoft). Sony already said all 1st-party titles will be DRM free.
 
2013-06-13 04:09:47 PM

DanZero: [img.photobucket.com image 640x563]


Can we clarify this for once and for all?

I'm finally calming down from the Monday bunch of pressers and we have to at least make sure we have our info straight.

based on current info:
X1:

Mandatory online check = Yes.
No gaming if offline for 24 hrs = Yes
Lending games restricted = Depends on publisher, (all publishers so far have said no)
Selling games restricted = Depends on publisher, (all publishers so far have said no)
Used games restricted = Depends on publisher, (all publishers so far have said no)
Mandatory Camera = Yes, but only in the sense that Every machine will come with Kinect (not splitting up the user base is kind of a good thing. Though I'm conflicted on the non gaming potential)
Gold required for Netflix = Yes

Price $499.99 (comes with Kinect though, so 2 controllers if you think about it)

PS4:

Mandatory online check = NO
No gaming if offline for 24 hrs = NO
Lending games restricted = Depends on publisher?
Selling games restricted = Depends on publisher?
Used games restricted = Depends on publisher?
Mandatory Camera = No, but the eye camera will be an add on. (this will split the user base and limit developers as to input devices)
Gold required for Netflix = NO, (multiplayer online will be the PS+ service)

Price $399. (1 controller and camera is a $60.00 extra)


I'm starting to think it may be a wash depending on how the publisher choices pan out.

Will probably go PS4, but, I'm not 100% sure yet.
 
2013-06-13 04:13:40 PM

scottydoesntknow: Sony already said all 1st-party titles will be DRM free.


Just keep the 1st party part in mind.

I don't trust EA or Activision to not take advantage of the DRM options if they need to.
 
2013-06-13 04:15:36 PM

Doogles4221: Am I the only one who realizes what Microsoft is trying to do? The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games. By forcing internet access and Kinect, games can be made with a whole new set of rules if companies can learn to take advantage of it. Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities, and with PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.

If I am buying a console to last me 8-10 years, I would rather have the one that has games and the new features. PS4 offers better graphics and larger games, but NOTHING NEW. Just off of the presentation Forza is incapable of being ported to PS4, as is Spark. Meanwhile Sony shows a total of ONE new ps4 exclusive game in 2 hours.
I understand that the Xbox One is only useful for a percentage of people at this time, but think about 6 years from now. The PS4 is locked into what it can do, while the Xbox can continue to outsource to the cloud for more power. Plus with Voice commands and Kinect built into every system, we gamers will see lots of interesting ideas that Sony cannot copy.

Xbox is the future for those that can deal with Microsofts BS. PS4 is the current generation warmed over again

/ own PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox 360, Wii
// will but a new system, but not this year.
/// want a Xbox for Crimson Dragon, and Titan Fall, and FFXV, and KH3


You make some good points.

One thing that eased my mind a bit was the sidebar  http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/ microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones- licensing-used-game-policies/ - It explained how "Family Members" work. They don't have to be in your family or even the same city. They can be 3,000 miles away. If you share games, only one person can play them at a time; essentially, somebody else has the disc until they give it up (or their membership as a family member is terminated).

For somebody like me who has a son living at his mother's, that's a good thing. He can take a disc, install the game (download times will be horrendous with the size of files on a Blu-Ray disc) and use it because i will have shared it.

I'm trying to get an answer regarding how the "Family Members" works - how easy is it to add/remove members?

I see it this way. You take a disc to a friends and install it. You both play for a while. You add your friend's gamertag as a family member so he can play this game, too. A short time later, he wants to play but you're online playing it, so he can't. Maybe you take the game off the shared list because your friend is always playing it. Your friend sees this and KNOWS the game is already installed on his system - what does he do? If he's an adult, he may just end up buying the game because he likes it. A child would have to get permission (obviously).

It's like a drug dealer, but Microsoft is farming out the job to Xbox Live Members. Give somebody a taste of a game. If they like it, it may be enough to get them to buy it. They don't even have to leave home. That sweet, sweet game that they love is sitting there, calling to them. Will they resist?

Or, the reverse could happen. Friends could get together and buy a single copy and share it, taking turns to play. That would only work for single-player games - multiplayer games usually result in friends playing together, so they would need their own copies.
 
2013-06-13 04:15:51 PM

kronicfeld: DanZero: img.photobucket.com

The Netflix thing is way too trivial to include there. Who doesn't already have ten devices to watch Netflix? Between TV apps, Blu-Ray players, Roku and the like, there are a ton of ways to get that on your TV without using your video game system.


Probably a better way to phrase it would be that the ONLY online service you have to pay for is online multiplayer.  Facebook/Twitter/Netflix/Hulu/etc., basically anything you can access on the net you can do on the PS4 without paying monthly.

There's a reason for that, by the way.  The PS3 offered free online multiplayer, but that's because Sony wasn't in charge of any of the servers used for that.  If you want to play Borderlands 2 mutliplayer on PS3 it goes through Gearbox's servers, not Sony's.  Apparently this time around though all PS4 games are going to have to work through Sony's servers, though to what degree isn't clear.  Hopefully its enough that even if EA (for example) decides to cut all support for Game X, the multiplayer will not stop working since they shut down their servers.  The money you pay is essentially to support Sony's servers.

Doogles4221: <rephrased Microsoft press release>


Yeah, "the cloud" will really make everything better.  Uh-huh, keep telling yourself that buddy.

Oh by the way, that network port you see on the PS4?  That's all you need for access to "the cloud" and "cloud computing". DRM and daily call-ins are, amazingly, not required.
 
2013-06-13 04:17:33 PM

FuryOfFirestorm: Sometimes my fellow gamers disappoint me. These are usual excuses / shill talking points i've been hearing lately:


for me, I would never buy a sony console because the controller is horrible for my hands. but to be fair, my hands are weird.

i'll probably get an xbone eventually, as the lady is quite addicted to the 360 and wouldn't even understand why anyone would care about used games or 24 hour whatever because it doesn't effect her at all.
 
2013-06-13 04:18:27 PM
Someone please correct/verify this information:

I've heard that Sony hasn't actually committed to the zero fee for used game exchanges, and they are actually leaving it up to the individual software developers to make that decision?

Seems like a clever way to placate the developers without bringing the wrath aimed at MS right now, but it also makes me think quite a few of the people condemning MS and praising Sony will be eating crow soon.

/Owns a 360, probably won't upgrade anytime soon anyway...
 
2013-06-13 04:20:17 PM
Virtual Pariah ,
scottydoesntknow: Sony already said all 1st-party titles will be DRM free.
Just keep the 1st party part in mind.
I don't trust EA or Activision to not take advantage of the DRM options if they need to.


It sucks Sony had to add this feature.

It still is the free market at it's best, and gives the public the dollar vote show how they feel EA and Activision or any other companies should they leverage these features.

/I am sad, but I hope the public is smart enough to reject DRM.
//Then again if you are dealing with FIFA2014 or Football2015, is there any sort of used market for these anyway?
 
2013-06-13 04:21:24 PM

Virtual Pariah: based on current info:
X1:

Mandatory online check = Yes.
No gaming if offline for 24 hrs = Yes
Lending games restricted = Depends on publisher, (all publishers so far have said no) Once only to someone who has been in your friends list for at least 30 days
Selling games restricted = Depends on publisher, (all publishers so far have said no)
Used games restricted = Depends on publisher, (all publishers so far have said no)
Mandatory Camera = Yes, but only in the sense that Every machine will come with Kinect (not splitting up the user base is kind of a good thing. Though I'm conflicted on the non gaming potential)
Gold required for Netflix anything online except basic web browsing = Yes

Price $499.99 (comes with Kinect though, so 2 controllers if you think about it)


Fixed two for you.

Also, while they haven't outright said anything about used/resold games being affected, the nature of how the system works (games tied to your account) means it is going to be vastly more complicated then "take game disk, put in box, exchange to someone for monies".
 
2013-06-13 04:22:05 PM

SmellsLikePoo: Someone please correct/verify this information:

I've heard that Sony hasn't actually committed to the zero fee for used game exchanges, and they are actually leaving it up to the individual software developers to make that decision?



That's what I'm trying to figure out.

After all the hype, I'm wondering if we are being hornswaggled.
 
2013-06-13 04:23:09 PM
Before we all line up to choke down on Sony,  remember that month in 2011 when PSN was down? Both companies have stumbled and unless you're in place to get a day one launch version most of us won't be bothering until the must play games start coming down the pipe. Launch titles tend to be over-hyped or games that were already scheduled to be released.
 
2013-06-13 04:23:57 PM

Virtual Pariah: scottydoesntknow: Sony already said all 1st-party titles will be DRM free.

Just keep the 1st party part in mind.

I don't trust EA or Activision to not take advantage of the DRM options if they need to.


EA announced they're doing away with online passes. They also went on record as saying the had zero input in Microsoft's decisions to implement DRM. Whether it's true or not is one thing as they're notorious for lying their asses off.

Doesn't matter much to me anyway as I'm really tired of EA and their franchises. I would've shown some interest in Dragon Age 3 if the second one didn't leave such a bad taste in my mouth. And I haven't purchased a Call of Duty game since World at War so Activision doesn't matter to me either.
 
2013-06-13 04:26:59 PM
Doesn't change the fact that I will get the new XBOX. I am an upper middle class individual, with constant internet. It doesn't bother me. Plus, Microsoft's all-in-one connectivity with tv, and media is completely unparalleled. The masses that enjoy their consoles more than just gaming will favor the XBOX. PS4 may be the "better" game system (quotes used because they both pretty much will have the exact same output level in terms of power and graphics), but if you want versatility, the XBOX One is the way to go. E3 was only an echo chamber for Sony fans to keep telling themselves how great they think they are. And the media always loves a good controversy to pick up, in a bout a year, nothing drastic will happen on the console front and this whole outrage will be a thing of the past.
 
2013-06-13 04:27:34 PM

SmellsLikePoo: Someone please correct/verify this information:

I've heard that Sony hasn't actually committed to the zero fee for used game exchanges, and they are actually leaving it up to the individual software developers to make that decision?

Seems like a clever way to placate the developers without bringing the wrath aimed at MS right now, but it also makes me think quite a few of the people condemning MS and praising Sony will be eating crow soon.

/Owns a 360, probably won't upgrade anytime soon anyway...


Technically this is true, but this is not something that will only work on the new console generation.  If EA, for example, had wanted to make all their games require online activation with a one-time-use key printed on the manual, they could have in the last console generation.

If the publishers start making games require fees for exchanging or require you to have the game linked with some account or something, I'm going to be angry at the publisher, not Sony.  Why?  Because Sony isn't going to be facilitating this in any way other than making a console that can go online.  Microsoft on the other hand has been trumpeting how their console will already link games with accounts that have to be validated online.

Basically, Microsoft is giving publishers the tools to restrict games in those ways, while Sony is stepping way the f%$# back so any publishers who want to go that route are free to suffer the backlash alone.
 
2013-06-13 04:28:41 PM

NathanAllen: Before we all line up to choke down on Sony,  remember that month in 2011 when PSN was down?


Yes, and then Sony upgraded PSN so it wouldn't happen again (and it hasn't). Even then, PS3 owners were still able to play games on their system. If XB 1's servers go down, then the console becomes a $500 door stop.
 
2013-06-13 04:29:50 PM

Le Grand Inquisitor: Doesn't change the fact that I will get the new XBOX. I am an upper middle class individual, with constant internet. It doesn't bother me. Plus, Microsoft's all-in-one connectivity with tv, and media is completely unparalleled. The masses that enjoy their consoles more than just gaming will favor the XBOX. PS4 may be the "better" game system (quotes used because they both pretty much will have the exact same output level in terms of power and graphics), but if you want versatility, the XBOX One is the way to go. E3 was only an echo chamber for Sony fans to keep telling themselves how great they think they are. And the media always loves a good controversy to pick up, in a bout a year, nothing drastic will happen on the console front and this whole outrage will be a thing of the past.


Ballmer-like typing detected.
 
2013-06-13 04:31:20 PM

scottydoesntknow: Virtual Pariah: scottydoesntknow: Sony already said all 1st-party titles will be DRM free.

Just keep the 1st party part in mind.

I don't trust EA or Activision to not take advantage of the DRM options if they need to.

EA announced they're doing away with online passes. They also went on record as saying the had zero input in Microsoft's decisions to implement DRM. Whether it's true or not is one thing as they're notorious for lying their asses off.

Doesn't matter much to me anyway as I'm really tired of EA and their franchises. I would've shown some interest in Dragon Age 3 if the second one didn't leave such a bad taste in my mouth. And I haven't purchased a Call of Duty game since World at War so Activision doesn't matter to me either.


Not that I want to call EA a bunch of shiatsucking liars, but...

1. Isn't there some type of consortium who devises these things? They may not have directly communicated.
2. Isn't Don Mattrick the common link between EA and MS?
 
2013-06-13 04:32:17 PM
Doogles4221: <rephrased Microsoft press release>

Yeah, "the cloud" will really make everything better.  Uh-huh, keep telling yourself that buddy.

Oh by the way, that network port you see on the PS4?  That's all you need for access to "the cloud" and "cloud computing". DRM and daily call-ins are, amazingly, not required.


So are we going to get two classes of PS4 games? Those that are required to be online for "cloud" services, and those that are playable offline??
There has never been an optional add-on for a console that worked well, and by not forcing PS4 to be online, Sony has fragmented their own consumer base, and made online nothing more that another optional choice, instead of a feature that all developers will use.
 
2013-06-13 04:33:27 PM
I may be watching Game of Thrones too much, but I have a feeling that Sony is building we gamers up for this AWESOME ending, and they're gonna pull a GRRM on us.

Come release time: Full DRM, always on connectivity, higher price, lack of new titles FARK YOU GEORGE RR MARTIN YOU FATASS!!!! WHY HAVE YOU SPOILED HAPPY ENDINGS FOR ME???????
 
2013-06-13 04:34:21 PM

kronicfeld: The Netflix thing is way too trivial to include there. Who doesn't already have ten devices to watch Netflix? Between TV apps, Blu-Ray players, Roku and the like, there are a ton of ways to get that on your TV without using your video game system.


I agree that it's trivial, but at least in my circle, game systems are by far the #1 way to access Netflix.  Media boxes like Roku just never took off.  Most of my friends don't even own blu-ray players, and smart TVs are still far too expensive to be commonplace, at least comparatively.
 
2013-06-13 04:36:26 PM
FuryOfFirestorm:

Basically, Microsoft is giving publishers the tools to restrict games in those ways, while Sony is stepping way the f%$# back so any publishers who want to go that route are free to suffer the backlash alone.

No,
Both have the tools available, but only 1 may have announced it.
MS takes the PR hit and Sony walks away smelling good.

Console resources are too scarce to have anything unnecessary coded in that are not part of the dev tools.

The paranoid part of me wonders how much collusion goes on between the companies.
 
2013-06-13 04:38:17 PM

FlashHarry: i've been a loyal xbox owner since the first one back in 2001, but there's NO way i'll get an xbone. when it comes time to get a "next gen" console, it'll be a PS4. microsoft really screwed their customers (and themselves) on this one.


I'm a Microsoft fan, but, damn, what in the hell were they thinking? They might as well have said "don't bother buying the Xbox One" - and, what's worse, their own friggin' PR person basically said just that.

What the hell, Microsoft? What the hell?
 
2013-06-13 04:39:29 PM

kendelrio: I may be watching Game of Thrones too much, but I have a feeling that Sony is building we gamers up for this AWESOME ending, and they're gonna pull a GRRM on us.

Come release time: Full DRM, always on connectivity, higher price, lack of new titles FARK YOU GEORGE RR MARTIN YOU FATASS!!!! WHY HAVE YOU SPOILED HAPPY ENDINGS FOR ME???????


Blue Wedding. The NSA stabs Sony in the gut, killing the PS4, leaving us all stuck with Microsoft and their whiny, vicious, inbred little spawn.
 
2013-06-13 04:43:01 PM

Le Grand Inquisitor: Doesn't change the fact that I will get the new XBOX. I am an upper middle class individual, with constant internet. It doesn't bother me. Plus, Microsoft's all-in-one connectivity with tv, and media is completely unparalleled. The masses that enjoy their consoles more than just gaming will favor the XBOX. PS4 may be the "better" game system (quotes used because they both pretty much will have the exact same output level in terms of power and graphics), but if you want versatility, the XBOX One is the way to go. E3 was only an echo chamber for Sony fans to keep telling themselves how great they think they are. And the media always loves a good controversy to pick up, in a bout a year, nothing drastic will happen on the console front and this whole outrage will be a thing of the past.


Y'know, I'm partial to Microsoft products as well, but that was a level of boot-licking I haven't seen since "Wizards", right there, Larry.
 
2013-06-13 04:43:52 PM
When the PS3 came out you could install Linux on it. Now? Nope! I don't trust Sony to keep their promises. They're enjoying a moment in the sun thanks to Microsoft's missteps but Sony is still Sony. Google 'Boycott Sony' if you've forgotten their past sins. The talk for the PS4 is just like when the PS3 came out. It would be open and free. Microsoft was the evil guys, we're the good guys. Then the market settled down and Sony felt safe to break their promises. What is anyone going to do if they break their promises on the PS4? Switch to XB1?

Microsoft's connection requirement is standard Silicon Valley arrogance, which is even worse when you consider they're not in Silicon Valley. Internet access for much of the country sucks. There's a built in assumption in all the cloud computing services that everyone has internet service similar to what they have in the Bay area (and Redmond). They laugh that only hick towns in flyover country have poor connectivity. The reality is far from that. Microsoft is going to end up backing off the call home beacon when they're swamped with calls and returns from people in large cities that they're assuming have excellent net connectivity. I live one block from one of the fattest internet pipes in the country. I can look out my window and see the manhole covers with Level3 stamped on them. Doesn't matter... I'm stuck with terrible service from Comcast that goes down for random unknown reasons and never delivers on the speed advertised. For all too many, terrible net connectivity is reality and no amount of advertising by Microsoft or Comcast will magically make that change. A year after the release of both consoles the landscape will likely look much different than today. Both companies will adjust. And both companies will sell tens of consoles regardless of what people on internet message boards say.
 
2013-06-13 04:45:10 PM
Probably covered already, but:
the battle of the consoles-this first round of it, anyway-was won on three fronts: connectivity requirements, disc-based game sharing/trading, and price.

Ah, right, three things I don't give a shiat about.
Connectivity requirements: I already have, and have had for years, a Gold account.. because, duh.

disc-based game sharing/trading: I get that this is a huge issue and I really hope it changes because I do buy the occasional used game, but it's not the be-all and end-all of why I'll choose a console

Price: Meh, whatever.

The one thing they don't cover, and this is the be-all and end-all of why I'll pick a console, is functionality and (as subsets) online multiplayer and, more difficult to describe, game "feel"... I simply prefer playing games on my Xbox over my PS3.  I have no idea yet which of the new consoles I'll like better, but none of the "three fronts" listed above mean much to me.
 
2013-06-13 04:52:53 PM

EngineerAU: And both companies will sell tens of consoles regardless of what people on internet message boards say.


TONS of consoles. Jeez, that changed the meaning quite a bit.
 
2013-06-13 04:53:42 PM

chewielouie: [i232.photobucket.com image 850x405]


Ha! I like this take on it as well:
 
2013-06-13 04:56:49 PM
timujin
The one thing they don't cover, and this is the be-all and end-all of why I'll pick a console, is functionality and (as subsets) online multiplayer and, more difficult to describe, game "feel"... I simply prefer playing games on my Xbox over my PS3.  I have no idea yet which of the new consoles I'll like better, but none of the "three fronts" listed above mean much to me.


Can Steve Ballmer come over to your house once in while and verbally abuse you too, as long as the gameplay experience works on the console?
 
2013-06-13 04:57:21 PM
Doogles4221

From TFA:

It was so obvious to so many people that those claiming to favor the "Xbone" were accused of being Microsoft shills, paid by the company to infiltrate message boards and comments sections to balance the scales.

I cannot imagine why I thought of that after reading your post, filled as it was with marketing doublespeak ("The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games", "Xbox is the future") and outright lies ("Sony shows a total of ONE new ps4 exclusive game", "Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities" ).

/Or you could just be a deluded fanboy.
 
2013-06-13 04:58:22 PM
I will probably wait a year or year and a half before get a new console (just got a PS3 last year) and so far, I'm really partial towards PS4, more than anything because I WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY THE DAMN THING IN MY COUNTRY...

/Not really able to PC gaming...
//Except for LoL...
 
2013-06-13 05:03:35 PM

EngineerAU: Microsoft's connection requirement is standard Silicon Valley arrogance, which is even worse when you consider they're not in Silicon Valley. Internet access for much of the country sucks. There's a built in assumption in all the cloud computing services that everyone has internet service similar to what they have in the Bay area (and Redmond). They laugh that only hick towns in flyover country have poor connectivity.


Hell, and the majority of problems aren't even going to be from end users. It's going to be from their own servers getting DDOS'd when major games release. It'll be Sim City times Diablo times an MMO launch every time a new Halo game comes out, only it'll crash the system for everybody, not just those who bought the game.
 
2013-06-13 05:03:39 PM

kronicfeld: Blues_X: I'm leaning strongly towards the ps4. I know we'll eventually get both. But I've been really impressed with the playstation network, where you actually get more than just online playability and a few discounts for your $$. I've got a lot of free games via PSN.

I'm hate the lack of reverse compatibility. There are a ton of PS3 games I've missed by not having one. I know that eventually they retooled the PS3 so that it could play a bunch of old PSX and PS2 games, but that was a few versions (and years) later. I'm not going to buy one at launch and buy another 18 months later when they upgrade it.


Its going to be longer than 18 months before x86 can emulate a ps3.
 
2013-06-13 05:04:34 PM

kvinesknows: okay seriously.. did MS honestly not look at the name and think hmm..  no way anyone will mistake the way we mean this name to be said

X BONE

yeah,.. I aint evern boning my ex.. thanks.


Most of them have had silly names.  But that doesn't seem to affect sales:

Wii - too many penis jokes
Wii-U - just got worse
XBox 360 - still doesn't make sense
Gameboy - sounds like a pedophile's weekend getaway
iPad - More bodily function references
PS 1, 2, 3, etc. - lends itself to being called a piece 'o shiat, and "playstation" is silly in its own right

Other than the initial WTF moment, the names don't seem to mean much if the product is solid.
 
2013-06-13 05:04:51 PM

exick: There are a few things that Microsoft could easily correct that would actually make this a contest, but they're too stubborn and ignorant to do them apparently.


The decisions made are both malicious and intentional. I suspect it will be a while after launch before they consider changing anything. We can only wait and see.
The two main issues are the Kinect and the constant online, but there is a third one bothering me.

Keeping kinect in the box (increasing the price) means Xbox will natively support controls that the PS4 can't. This is a problem for cross platform titles take advantage of the features.
Going constant online is justdoubling down on DRM. All the people looking at Sony's victory dance on youtube would be unaffected by this policy (and many people on the fringe and in the military do have internet), but it keeps ebay and gamestop from eating the publishers lunch.

The legacy 360 might be another wrench in sony's price point plan.  People won't spend $399 if they can spend $99 and get most of the same titles.  Its a slower system, but it has most of the features PS4 does.

/My prediction: Microsoft rides this mess right into 2014.
/Maybe changes "once every 24 hours" to "once every X hours of play".
 
2013-06-13 05:09:25 PM

tlchwi02: FuryOfFirestorm: Sometimes my fellow gamers disappoint me. These are usual excuses / shill talking points i've been hearing lately:

for me, I would never buy a sony console because the controller is horrible for my hands. but to be fair, my hands are weird.

i'll probably get an xbone eventually, as the lady is quite addicted to the 360 and wouldn't even understand why anyone would care about used games or 24 hour whatever because it doesn't effect her at all.


Your 'lady' sounds like a terrible person.

"like omg why are people complaining when my internet is perfect and I never buy used. How of these entitled brats not realize I don't have any problems with always online or used games? It's almost like other people have their own problems."

Sad to say, the majority of diehard xboners sound exactly the same - 'Since it doesn't effect me personally, no one gets to say anything negative. There's no reason people should feel contrary to what I feel.'

And I thought the self-absorbed arrogance from apple fanboys was bad.
 
2013-06-13 05:09:30 PM
I've said it before, but:

1) Farkers are not exactly the "average user". The "average user" doesn't care about trading games (really, who does that anyway?), couldn't care less about whether they have to be connected to the net (I'd wager the VAST majority of current gaming systems are connected 24/7).

2) The price difference won't matter.

3) People keep (wrongly) making the assumption that they are comparing two gaming systems. PS4 is a gaming system. XBONE is an entertainment center, for people who don't want to put together a media PC.
 
2013-06-13 05:11:22 PM

Hebalo: The "average user" doesn't care about trading games (really, who does that anyway?)


I just lent Bioshock Infinite to somebody the other day. You've seriously never borrowed or rented a game in your life?
 
2013-06-13 05:13:55 PM

Khellendros: XBox 360 - still doesn't make sense


That's a result of Microsoft's marketing team trying to one-up/keep up with the competition. Specifically:
Sony releases Playstation.
Sony releases Playstation 2, Microsoft releases XBox.
Sony releases Playstation 3... Microsoft releases XBox 2? No, now we're a generation behind... Shiat, better come up with a 3-based name. 360? Yeah, that'll work.
Sony releases Playstation 4... Microsoft releases XBox 3? Same problem, and they already had a 3-based name. XBoxOne? Yeah, that's the ticket.

They did the same thing back in 2000 when Apple jumped from OS 9 to OS X. Microsoft had to be equally Xtreme! so they released Windows XP. As a result, while Apple could just go to OS 10.1, 10.2, etc., Microsoft bounced around with Longhorn and Vista and then finally 7 and 8 in a return to numbering.
 
2013-06-13 05:15:21 PM

Hebalo: 1) Farkers are not exactly the "average user". The "average user" doesn't care about trading games (really, who does that anyway?), couldn't care less about whether they have to be connected to the net (I'd wager the VAST majority of current gaming systems are connected 24/7).


Well if you're going by Fark, GameStop should've already shut down as everyone on here hates their guts. Yet GameStop is very successful, mainly due to the reselling of used games. They're getting those used games from somewhere and I would guess it's from the "average users".

/When I was a poor college kid I could only get new games after trading in old ones to help offset the cost
 
2013-06-13 05:15:31 PM

Hebalo: I've said it before, but:

1) Farkers are not exactly the "average user". The "average user" doesn't care about trading games (really, who does that anyway?), couldn't care less about whether they have to be connected to the net (I'd wager the VAST majority of current gaming systems are connected 24/7).

2) The price difference won't matter.

3) People keep (wrongly) making the assumption that they are comparing two gaming systems. PS4 is a gaming system. XBONE is an entertainment center, for people who don't want to put together a media PC.


The price won't matter for the average consumer? Seriously?

I don't think you know what the average consumer is exactly.
 
2013-06-13 05:16:10 PM

Someothermonkey: Sad to say, the majority of diehard xboners sound exactly the same - 'Since it doesn't effect me personally, no one gets to say anything negative. There's no reason people should feel contrary to what I feel.'


I doubt the always online requirement will ever affect me - or at least, if my network connection is down, I've got bigger problems to deal with. But I certainly understand that it's a horrible imposition for some, including people who travel and bring their system with them, troops deployed overseas who play local multiplayer, etc.
 
2013-06-13 05:19:33 PM

Doogles4221: Am I the only one who realizes what Microsoft is trying to do? The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games. By forcing internet access and Kinect, games can be made with a whole new set of rules if companies can learn to take advantage of it. Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities, and with PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.


This.  Nobody is going to make any cool games for a $59 optional device.
 
2013-06-13 05:20:06 PM
To everyone making the point they don't care about the new rules MS set out on the xbox telescreen.

Link

The patent seems to cover many bases, but the Microsoft product that appears ready-made to deliver emotionally targeted ads is Kinect, the motion-sensing input device that was released for Xbox but now also has a version for Windows. The application states that a user who screams or paces back and forth, when observed by Kinect, could be assigned a negative emotional state by a currently hypothetical advertising engine.


If you want to be tracked for profit, by all means buy it.
 
2013-06-13 05:20:23 PM

Gunther: Doogles4221

From TFA:

It was so obvious to so many people that those claiming to favor the "Xbone" were accused of being Microsoft shills, paid by the company to infiltrate message boards and comments sections to balance the scales.

I cannot imagine why I thought of that after reading your post, filled as it was with marketing doublespeak ("The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games", "Xbox is the future") and outright lies ("Sony shows a total of ONE new ps4 exclusive game", "Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities" ).

/Or you could just be a deluded fanboy.


Nope.

Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game. Maybe some of the Indie games(they were not clear on that, but PC/steam is most likely getting them)

Other than that; Beyond, Killzone, Infamous, and Driveclub were announced earlier.
FFXV, KF3, GTA5, Battlefield 4, Watch Dogs, AC4, Destiny and NBA2k14 are all on Xbox One. FFIV is on PC.

/if anything, I am a Nintendo fanboy
//just thought Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen other then the 2 minutes of news.
///If there was another game, let me know
 
2013-06-13 05:21:13 PM

Hebalo: XBONE is an entertainment center, for people who don't want to put together a media PC.


But will it play MKV files and allow USB sticks to be formatted with something other than FAT (4GB max file size) or HFS (Need a Mac)? These requirements might be a corner case that most won't care about but in general I've found the Xbox to be only so-so at being a media center. If nothing else, Microsoft should be terribly embarrassed by the built in music player. Xbox is good for watching Netflix or Amazon Prime but for playing ripped CDs, podcasts, or video obtained from the net (legit or not), the 360 isn't all that great. Maybe the XB1 will be different but given Microsoft's (and Sony's) tendency to err in favor of media company demands rather than usability, I'm not getting my hopes up.
 
2013-06-13 05:21:46 PM

chewielouie: [i232.photobucket.com image 850x405]


That gamer survived.
 
2013-06-13 05:22:38 PM

Enemabag Jones: To everyone making the point they don't care about the new rules MS set out on the xbox telescreen.

Link

The patent seems to cover many bases, but the Microsoft product that appears ready-made to deliver emotionally targeted ads is Kinect, the motion-sensing input device that was released for Xbox but now also has a version for Windows. The application states that a user who screams or paces back and forth, when observed by Kinect, could be assigned a negative emotional state by a currently hypothetical advertising engine.

If you want to be tracked for profit, by all means buy it.


"Joey, please you need to calm down. The XBone is advertising Xanax again."

They also have a patent on determining how many people are in the room with you, so they can charge more for movie rentals.
 
2013-06-13 05:24:49 PM

Ed Grubermann: Elegy: We finally bought a PS3 about a year ago. Got home anf learned that the PS3s are no longer backwards compatable, making that stack of games we were looking fowardthing to playing again useless.


Grrrr. Fark you Sony.

Buy a farking PS2 if you want to play PS2 games. You can still get them. Amazon has them for $124.00 (US). Yes, PS2 compatibility was built into the early units, but that became ever less meaningful to users as time went on as people with PS2 libraries would have (in a reasonable world) already purchased a PS3 during the first three years they were out.


Or alternatively, there are emulators and....that which must not be named, if you catch my drift.
 
2013-06-13 05:27:02 PM

Theaetetus: Someothermonkey: Sad to say, the majority of diehard xboners sound exactly the same - 'Since it doesn't effect me personally, no one gets to say anything negative. There's no reason people should feel contrary to what I feel.'

I doubt the always online requirement will ever affect me - or at least, if my network connection is down, I've got bigger problems to deal with. But I certainly understand that it's a horrible imposition for some, including people who travel and bring their system with them, troops deployed overseas who play local multiplayer, etc.


None of the requirements would affect me seriously either. I just don't see why people would be okay with losing a freer marketplace - having more options is never a bad thing.

And the bigger problem with the xbone is not if individual users internet goes down, rather it's if microsofts servers go down. The console will essentially be useless gaming wise then.
 
2013-06-13 05:27:55 PM

NathanAllen: Before we all line up to choke down on Sony,  remember that month in 2011 when PSN was down? Both companies have stumbled and unless you're in place to get a day one launch version most of us won't be bothering until the must play games start coming down the pipe. Launch titles tend to be over-hyped or games that were already scheduled to be released.


PS3 owners remember it very well, but they're also quick to remind you of the awesome free copy of Little Big Planet they have sitting on their hard drive which in their mind makes up for it.

It's rather amazing to me how easily Sony's past has been thrown out the window with this.  Rootkits, proprietary formats and hardware, PS3 is gonna be backwards compatible with PS2 AND Linux-friendly... for a short while.  All I'm saying is let's wait and see after the PS4s and XBox Ones are shipping until we declare winners and losers.
 
2013-06-13 05:29:46 PM

EngineerAU: When the PS3 came out you could install Linux on it. Now? Nope!


You can still install Linux on the PS# if you want to, but you can't do that AND connect to the PS Network. You have to pick one or the other.

It was simply a response to people hacking into the PS Network.
 
2013-06-13 05:30:18 PM

EngineerAU: Hebalo: XBONE is an entertainment center, for people who don't want to put together a media PC.

But will it play MKV files and allow USB sticks to be formatted with something other than FAT (4GB max file size) or HFS (Need a Mac)? These requirements might be a corner case that most won't care about but in general I've found the Xbox to be only so-so at being a media center. If nothing else, Microsoft should be terribly embarrassed by the built in music player. Xbox is good for watching Netflix or Amazon Prime but for playing ripped CDs, podcasts, or video obtained from the net (legit or not), the 360 isn't all that great. Maybe the XB1 will be different but given Microsoft's (and Sony's) tendency to err in favor of media company demands rather than usability, I'm not getting my hopes up.


If I'm looking for all those features though, I don't know if I'm looking at a product from a major manufacturer.


Maybe get myself a bag of popcorn.
 
2013-06-13 05:30:18 PM

Theaetetus: Someothermonkey: Sad to say, the majority of diehard xboners sound exactly the same - 'Since it doesn't effect me personally, no one gets to say anything negative. There's no reason people should feel contrary to what I feel.'

I doubt the always online requirement will ever affect me - or at least, if my network connection is down, I've got bigger problems to deal with. But I certainly understand that it's a horrible imposition for some, including people who travel and bring their system with them, troops deployed overseas who play local multiplayer, etc.


The 1.5mb/s requirement would be irritating as hell for me as it means I wouldn't be able to game if anyone in the house was watching Netflix or some other bandwidth-intensive internet thingy.

Granted, that'll only apply for Cloud games, but they seemed to be implying before E3 that they'd be using cloud computing to make up for their system being about 50% slower than the PS4.


Le Grand Inquisitor: Doesn't change the fact that I will get the new XBOX. I am an upper middle class individual, with constant internet. It doesn't bother me. Plus, Microsoft's all-in-one connectivity with tv, and media is completely unparalleled. The masses that enjoy their consoles more than just gaming will favor the XBOX. PS4 may be the "better" game system (quotes used because they both pretty much will have the exact same output level in terms of power and graphics), but if you want versatility, the XBOX One is the way to go. E3 was only an echo chamber for Sony fans to keep telling themselves how great they think they are. And the media always loves a good controversy to pick up, in a bout a year, nothing drastic will happen on the console front and this whole outrage will be a thing of the past.


Oh dang, that's either some great trolling or some great shilling.


theurge14: Doogles4221: Am I the only one who realizes what Microsoft is trying to do? The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games. By forcing internet access and Kinect, games can be made with a whole new set of rules if companies can learn to take advantage of it. Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities, and with PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.

This.  Nobody is going to make any cool games for a $59 optional device.


Nobody is ever gonna make any cool games for any kind of camera-based input system. They've had years to try and so far there's been zero games for the Kinect or Eye that could be described even as "adequate". There's two main reasons for this: 1) It's really hard to eliminate lag from the proceedings, 2) without some sort of tactile feedback (the resistance of a button or joystick) it just isn't precise enough an input system for anything other than the most casual of games.

Now there's still some ways to integrate it by having it as a secondary system (ie - maybe you normally interact with a controller but you gesture for the camera to make your character cast spells or something), but the idea that it's going to be some sort of huge industry-changing revolution and that the PS4 has misstepped by not forcing it on the consumer is nonsense.
 
2013-06-13 05:34:46 PM
I've own a Sony since the Sega Genesis and I've always believe they are the better company. But dang did they knock this out of the park.

chewielouie: [i232.photobucket.com image 850x405]


img823.imageshack.us


i can watch that all day
 
2013-06-13 05:39:15 PM

Virtual Pariah: FuryOfFirestorm:

Basically, Microsoft is giving publishers the tools to restrict games in those ways, while Sony is stepping way the f%$# back so any publishers who want to go that route are free to suffer the backlash alone.

No,
Both have the tools available, but only 1 may have announced it.
MS takes the PR hit and Sony walks away smelling good.

Console resources are too scarce to have anything unnecessary coded in that are not part of the dev tools.

The paranoid part of me wonders how much collusion goes on between the companies.


The ps4's DRM is the exact same as the ps3's, this has been confirmed by sony.  Several times.  There is a lot of fud from the MS camp to try to make it sound like both sides are doing the same thing, but so far, that's just not true.  Sony has no plans to create the massive DRM structure MS is doing for the Xbone.

Both Sony and EA have scrapped online passes for the ps4, and hell, EA scrapped all of them retroactively as well.  Turns out, the cost of running such a setup outweighs the profits from it, and the hit to the publishers reputation.  I can't imagine how many millions it's going to cost MS to keep and maintain their proposed DRM structure.

MS went with the DRM system because they wanted it, due to the desire to have 100% control over all things xbox, and your living room.  Nintendo and Sony are more then happy to stick to the profitable status quo.
 
2013-06-13 05:41:32 PM
Gunther: Doogles4221: Am I the only one who realizes what Microsoft is trying to do? The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games. By forcing internet access and Kinect, games can be made with a whole new set of rules if companies can learn to take advantage of it. Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities, and with PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.

This.  Nobody is going to make any cool games for a $59 optional device.

Nobody isevergonna make any cool games for any kind of camera-based input system. They've had years to try and so far there's been zero games for the Kinect or Eye that could be described even as "adequate". There's two main reasons for this: 1) It's really hard to eliminate lag from the proceedings, 2) without some sort of tactile feedback (the resistance of a button or joystick) it just isn't precise enough an input system for anything other than the most casual of games.


Now there's still some ways to integrate it by having it as a secondary system (ie - maybe you normally interact with a controller but you gesture for the camera to make your character cast spells or something), but the idea that it's going to be some sort of huge industry-changing revolution and that the PS4 has misstepped by not forcing it on the consumer is nonsense.

Which is exactly what Xbox can have and Sony cannot. Not a game focusing on it, but games where the secondary system can be used. Simple stuff like opening a map, or assigning commands to a teammember HAVE to be assigned a button on the PS4, where Xbox can use voice.
As games get more complex, the fixed amount of buttons on the controller is going to be a real problem (MMOs for example), and Sony has no remedy for it. Xbox games can be made with NO button input for something small and be sure 100% of customers can still use it.
 
2013-06-13 05:43:18 PM

Antimatter: Virtual Pariah: FuryOfFirestorm:

Basically, Microsoft is giving publishers the tools to restrict games in those ways, while Sony is stepping way the f%$# back so any publishers who want to go that route are free to suffer the backlash alone.

No,
Both have the tools available, but only 1 may have announced it.
MS takes the PR hit and Sony walks away smelling good.

Console resources are too scarce to have anything unnecessary coded in that are not part of the dev tools.

The paranoid part of me wonders how much collusion goes on between the companies.

The ps4's DRM is the exact same as the ps3's, this has been confirmed by sony.  Several times.  There is a lot of fud from the MS camp to try to make it sound like both sides are doing the same thing, but so far, that's just not true.  Sony has no plans to create the massive DRM structure MS is doing for the Xbone.

Both Sony and EA have scrapped online passes for the ps4, and hell, EA scrapped all of them retroactively as well.  Turns out, the cost of running such a setup outweighs the profits from it, and the hit to the publishers reputation.  I can't imagine how many millions it's going to cost MS to keep and maintain their proposed DRM structure.

MS went with the DRM system because they wanted it, due to the desire to have 100% control over all things xbox, and your living room.  Nintendo and Sony are more then happy to stick to the profitable status quo.


Jack Tretton disagrees with you.

Asked further if PlayStation 4 would allow for types of DRM for third-party games, Tretton answered, "The DRM decision is going to have to be in the hands of third-parties. That's not something we're going to dictate, control, mandate or implement."

That's not FUD, That's from Sony.
 
2013-06-13 05:43:46 PM

Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game


So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games, games announced before E3, untitled games like QD's new IP, games that are also coming out for the PS3, etc).

Fan-goddamn-tastic. I'll move it from the "blatant lie" column to the "bullshiat marketing doublespeak" column then.

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen


How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?
 
2013-06-13 05:45:18 PM

Enemabag Jones: Virtual Pariah ,
scottydoesntknow: Sony already said all 1st-party titles will be DRM free.
Just keep the 1st party part in mind.
I don't trust EA or Activision to not take advantage of the DRM options if they need to.

It sucks Sony had to add this feature.

It still is the free market at it's best, and gives the public the dollar vote show how they feel EA and Activision or any other companies should they leverage these features.

/I am sad, but I hope the public is smart enough to reject DRM.
//Then again if you are dealing with FIFA2014 or Football2015, is there any sort of used market for these anyway?


Why are you buying a console if your reject DRM?

Consoles are the definition of DRM: Games stop working when companies tell it to (no backwards compatibility), each disc is encrypted and require a license from the mothership (licensing fees for publishers), you can't make backup copies, etc.
 
2013-06-13 05:47:02 PM
Nobody is ever gonna make any cool games for any kind of camera-based input system. They've had years to try and so far there's been zero games for the Kinect or Eye that could be described even as "adequate". There's two main reasons for this: 1) It's really hard to eliminate lag from the proceedings, 2) without some sort of tactile feedback (the resistance of a button or joystick) it just isn't precise enough an input system for anything other than the most casual of games.


I've had plenty of fun with Double Fine's Kinect offerings.
While I can't see the Kinect as a tool for games requiring fine tuned motions, the ones that I was able to play with the kids are a lot of fun.

Different experience, but fun was still there.
 
2013-06-13 05:47:50 PM

Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Am I the only one who realizes what Microsoft is trying to do? The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games. By forcing internet access and Kinect, games can be made with a whole new set of rules if companies can learn to take advantage of it. Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities, and with PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.

This.  Nobody is going to make any cool games for a $59 optional device.

Nobody isevergonna make any cool games for any kind of camera-based input system. They've had years to try and so far there's been zero games for the Kinect or Eye that could be described even as "adequate". There's two main reasons for this: 1) It's really hard to eliminate lag from the proceedings, 2) without some sort of tactile feedback (the resistance of a button or joystick) it just isn't precise enough an input system for anything other than the most casual of games.

Now there's still some ways to integrate it by having it as a secondary system (ie - maybe you normally interact with a controller but you gesture for the camera to make your character cast spells or something), but the idea that it's going to be some sort of huge industry-changing revolution and that the PS4 has misstepped by not forcing it on the consumer is nonsense.

Which is exactly what Xbox can have and Sony cannot. Not a game focusing on it, but games where the secondary system can be used. Simple stuff like opening a map, or assigning commands to a teammember HAVE to be assigned a button on the PS4, where Xbox can use voice.
As games get more complex, the fixed amount of buttons on the controller is going to be a real problem (MMOs for example), and Sony has no remedy for it. Xbox games can be made with NO button input for something small and be sure 100% of customers can still use it.


You do know every ps4 has a headset, and a touchpad, right?  Multitouch gestures alone could add tons of possible inputs.  Voice could be easily done as well, seeing as sony had games using voice inputs in the ps2 era.  Not to mention native KB+mouse options in games, where supported, since the ps2.

All three consoles bring to the table inputs that the others don't have.  Nintendo has a built in second screen, sony's got multitouch, and MS has kinect.  Two of them have controller-based motion controls.  Two have camera of some sort, and one has one optional.
 
2013-06-13 05:51:00 PM

Someothermonkey: The price won't matter for the average consumer? Seriously?

I don't think you know what the average consumer is exactly.


I don't think you know what the average consumer is exactly.

You know why the used-game bin has a million copies of <insert Sports game> <Insert year, possibly abbreviated with a K>?

Someone bought that for $60-80 and threw it away the year after because they bought the <insert year, possibly abbreviated with a K+1> version the year after.  How many of these people have all 8383 COD games now?  All 3984 Halo series?

If the consumer wants it badly enough, they make the money for it.
 
2013-06-13 05:51:04 PM

SleepingEye: Enemabag Jones: Virtual Pariah ,
scottydoesntknow: Sony already said all 1st-party titles will be DRM free.
Just keep the 1st party part in mind.
I don't trust EA or Activision to not take advantage of the DRM options if they need to.

It sucks Sony had to add this feature.

It still is the free market at it's best, and gives the public the dollar vote show how they feel EA and Activision or any other companies should they leverage these features.

/I am sad, but I hope the public is smart enough to reject DRM.
//Then again if you are dealing with FIFA2014 or Football2015, is there any sort of used market for these anyway?

Why are you buying a console if your reject DRM?

Consoles are the definition of DRM: Games stop working when companies tell it to (no backwards compatibility), each disc is encrypted and require a license from the mothership (licensing fees for publishers), you can't make backup copies, etc.


So when the next gen hits, every disc and console from the previous gen is going spontaneously combust?
 
2013-06-13 05:51:21 PM

Gunther: theurge14: Doogles4221: Am I the only one who realizes what Microsoft is trying to do? The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games. By forcing internet access and Kinect, games can be made with a whole new set of rules if companies can learn to take advantage of it. Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities, and with PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.

This.  Nobody is going to make any cool games for a $59 optional device.


Nobody isevergonna make any cool games for any kind of camera-based input system. They've had years to try and so far there's been zero games for the Kinect or Eye that could be described even as "adequate". There's two main reasons for this: 1) It's really hard to eliminate lag from the proceedings, 2) without some sort of tactile feedback (the resistance of a button or joystick) it just isn't precise enough an input system for anything other than the most casual of games.

When people like me can sit around and conjure up many ways the Kinect or the Move&Eye could be used I can guarantee there are bright people at these game studios with even better ideas.  Good luck getting those ambitions greenlighted when their bosses point to a spreadsheet that says "this fraction of that platform's owners have this device, so no funding".  I don't agree it's been the hardware's fault at all.  And the new Kinect and the new Playstation Camera are even better.

Now there's still some ways to integrate it by having it as a secondary system (ie - maybe you normally interact with a controller but you gesture for the camera to make your character cast spells or something), but the idea that it's going to be some sort of huge industry-changing revolution and that the PS4 has misstepped by not forcing it on the consumer is nonsense.

Agree with the first thing, disagree with the second thing because Nintendo already proved that one wrong, and that smugness from Sony caved in when they introduced the Move.
 
2013-06-13 05:51:43 PM

Virtual Pariah: Jack Tretton disagrees with you.

Asked further if PlayStation 4 would allow for types of DRM for third-party games, Tretton answered, "The DRM decision is going to have to be in the hands of third-parties. That's not something we're going to dictate, control, mandate or implement."

That's not FUD, That's from Sony.


Nope, still FUD.  Sony clarified he was only talking about the ability to restrict online play with passes.  Sony will not allow any scheme that would block used games or resales.  they also confirmed their dropping of first party online passes for the ps4.  the ps4 works the same as the ps3.

Seriously, 30 seconds on google would have told you all this.
 
2013-06-13 05:52:00 PM

Doogles4221: Doogles4221: <rephrased Microsoft press release>

Yeah, "the cloud" will really make everything better.  Uh-huh, keep telling yourself that buddy.

Oh by the way, that network port you see on the PS4?  That's all you need for access to "the cloud" and "cloud computing". DRM and daily call-ins are, amazingly, not required.

So are we going to get two classes of PS4 games? Those that are required to be online for "cloud" services, and those that are playable offline??


We already have that.  It's called "multiplayer or singleplayer".

Ace trolling by the way, but I'm done now.
 
2013-06-13 05:52:59 PM

Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games, games announced before E3, untitled games like QD's new IP, games that are also coming out for the PS3, etc).

Fan-goddamn-tastic. I'll move it from the "blatant lie" column to the "bullshiat marketing doublespeak" column then.

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?


Pretty much this. I was drooling over the ps4 game demos.
 
2013-06-13 05:57:01 PM

Antimatter: Virtual Pariah: Jack Tretton disagrees with you.

Asked further if PlayStation 4 would allow for types of DRM for third-party games, Tretton answered, "The DRM decision is going to have to be in the hands of third-parties. That's not something we're going to dictate, control, mandate or implement."

That's not FUD, That's from Sony.

Nope, still FUD.  Sony clarified he was only talking about the ability to restrict online play with passes.  Sony will not allow any scheme that would block used games or resales.  they also confirmed their dropping of first party online passes for the ps4.  the ps4 works the same as the ps3.

Seriously, 30 seconds on google would have told you all this.


"Sony itself has responded with the following: "Similar to PS3, we will not dictate the online used game strategy (the ability to play used games online) of its publishing partners. As announced last night, PS4 will not have any gating restrictions for used disc-based games. When a gamer buys a PS4 disc they have right to use that copy of the game, so they can trade-in the game at retail, sell it to another person, lend it to a friend, or keep it forever."


Bolded by me.
I realize the answers are almost non-answers, but, Sony is stating pretty plainly that they are not going to dictate the used strategy of their publishing partners.
 
2013-06-13 05:57:03 PM
SleepingEye
Why are you buying a console if your reject DRM?
Consoles are the definition of DRM: Games stop working when companies tell it to (no backwards compatibility), each disc is encrypted and require a license from the mothership (licensing fees for publishers), you can't make backup copies, etc.


MS is moving to a steam model where the disk is a token.  It may be able to be transferred X times, but MS owns it.

The model Sony talks about is not much different from a CD or a DVD*.  Once the physical media breaks it is done, but you can sell, loan or buy that physical media infinity times and it will still work.

This is MS changing the game.  And if MS does want to go the steam model, they could, but they seem to want to have it multiple ways.  If they wanted to change the system, then change it.  Don't make it into some backward ass confusing hybrid system.

*I am aware you can copy CD's and DVD's can be broken, and Disney will replace DVD's.    But in principle it is comparable.
 
2013-06-13 05:58:06 PM

kiwimoogle84: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games, games announced before E3, untitled games like QD's new IP, games that are also coming out for the PS3, etc).

Fan-goddamn-tastic. I'll move it from the "blatant lie" column to the "bullshiat marketing doublespeak" column then.

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

Pretty much this. I was drooling over the ps4 game demos.


They had the problem of most of the third party stuff shown wasn't exclusive.  their first party games and indies were, at least in part with the indies, but none of the major third party stuff.

Overall, they showed fewer exclusives then MS did.  They still have some more conferences between now and release though.  I just hope they don't make the same mistake as they did with the vita:  too many first party games at launch, then nothing for the next few months.  they need to spread the love over the launch period, till the spring and the third parties late comers hit.

MS has a ton more money to moneyhat devs as well, leading to a lot of 'timed' exclusives and outright exclusives.
 
2013-06-13 05:58:26 PM

Virtual Pariah: While I can't see the Kinect as a tool for games requiring fine tuned motions, the ones that I was able to play with the kids are a lot of fun.


Yeah, I should have put some sort of "apart from casual games" disclaimer in that post. My bad.


Doogles4221: Which is exactly what Xbox can have and Sony cannot. Not a game focusing on it, but games where the secondary system can be used.


Antimatter's already posted a good reply to this (noting that the PS4 has a touchpad and headset out of the box), I'll just note that the vast majority of games are NOT exclusives, particularly for this coming generation of hardware where the consoles have similar architecture (far more similar than the 360 and PS3). Ports are gonna be really easy in the future. If a game requires Kinect/Eye features and cannot possibly be played without them, most likely the PS4 version will be for Eye only.
 
2013-06-13 06:00:55 PM

Virtual Pariah: Antimatter: Virtual Pariah: Jack Tretton disagrees with you.

Asked further if PlayStation 4 would allow for types of DRM for third-party games, Tretton answered, "The DRM decision is going to have to be in the hands of third-parties. That's not something we're going to dictate, control, mandate or implement."

That's not FUD, That's from Sony.

Nope, still FUD.  Sony clarified he was only talking about the ability to restrict online play with passes.  Sony will not allow any scheme that would block used games or resales.  they also confirmed their dropping of first party online passes for the ps4.  the ps4 works the same as the ps3.

Seriously, 30 seconds on google would have told you all this.

"Sony itself has responded with the following: "Similar to PS3, we will not dictate the online used game strategy (the ability to play used games online) of its publishing partners. As announced last night, PS4 will not have any gating restrictions for used disc-based games. When a gamer buys a PS4 disc they have right to use that copy of the game, so they can trade-in the game at retail, sell it to another person, lend it to a friend, or keep it forever."


Bolded by me.
I realize the answers are almost non-answers, but, Sony is stating pretty plainly that they are not going to dictate the used strategy of their publishing partners.


Right, exactly how it works on the ps3, currently.  There is no change for the ps4.  Publishers can do online passes, but thats basically it, outside of digital download games.  Physical games cannot be blocked like they can on the Xbone.

These aren't non answers.  They are being very, very clear this time around on what we can expect.  Numerous execs have spoken on this over the last few days, and all have said the same thing:  things are now, as they have been, nothign new.
 
2013-06-13 06:01:37 PM

Doogles4221: Am I the only one who realizes what Microsoft is trying to do? The Xbox One is the only console capable of true "next gen" games. By forcing internet access and Kinect, games can be made with a whole new set of rules if companies can learn to take advantage of it. Sony cannot have any games that take advantage of the cloud computing possibilities, and with PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.

If I am buying a console to last me 8-10 years, I would rather have the one that has games and the new features. PS4 offers better graphics and larger games, but NOTHING NEW. Just off of the presentation Forza is incapable of being ported to PS4, as is Spark. Meanwhile Sony shows a total of ONE new ps4 exclusive game in 2 hours.
I understand that the Xbox One is only useful for a percentage of people at this time, but think about 6 years from now. The PS4 is locked into what it can do, while the Xbox can continue to outsource to the cloud for more power. Plus with Voice commands and Kinect built into every system, we gamers will see lots of interesting ideas that Sony cannot copy.

Xbox is the future for those that can deal with Microsofts BS. PS4 is the current generation warmed over again

/ own PS1, PS2, PS3, Xbox 360, Wii
// will but a new system, but not this year.
/// want a Xbox for Crimson Dragon, and Titan Fall, and FFXV, and KH3


all of the "next gen" features you listed have already been tried and have mostly failed

forcing products on people when they don't want them is what's getting Microsoft in trouble
 
2013-06-13 06:04:07 PM

Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games

(I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?


IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???
 
2013-06-13 06:04:46 PM

Someothermonkey: SleepingEye: Enemabag Jones: Virtual Pariah ,
scottydoesntknow: Sony already said all 1st-party titles will be DRM free.
Just keep the 1st party part in mind.
I don't trust EA or Activision to not take advantage of the DRM options if they need to.

It sucks Sony had to add this feature.

It still is the free market at it's best, and gives the public the dollar vote show how they feel EA and Activision or any other companies should they leverage these features.

/I am sad, but I hope the public is smart enough to reject DRM.
//Then again if you are dealing with FIFA2014 or Football2015, is there any sort of used market for these anyway?

Why are you buying a console if your reject DRM?

Consoles are the definition of DRM: Games stop working when companies tell it to (no backwards compatibility), each disc is encrypted and require a license from the mothership (licensing fees for publishers), you can't make backup copies, etc.

So when the next gen hits, every disc and console from the previous gen is going spontaneously combust?


well if you downloaded it from PSN and XBLA, eventually yes
 
2013-06-13 06:05:49 PM

Virtual Pariah: Jack Tretton disagrees with you.

Asked further if PlayStation 4 would allow for types of DRM for third-party games, Tretton answered, "The DRM decision is going to have to be in the hands of third-parties. That's not something we're going to dictate, control, mandate or implement."

That's not FUD, That's from Sony.


That's Sony saying "sure, if the publishers want to aim that shotgun at their own feet, we aren't going to stop them."

And why wouldn't they?  The publishers seem super eager to be allowed to set up that wood chipper so they can jump into it feet first, to the point where not being able to may be a dealbreaker for a game being made for a specific console.  Sony will get their money for the licensing fees but bear none of the responsibility for making such an awful design decision.  Hell, it might indirectly boost sales of games made by Sony's own in-house publishing and development studios.
 
2013-06-13 06:08:44 PM

FlashHarry: Marcus Aurelius: Most gamers I know are skipping consoles altogether.

i'm a casual gamer. i don't need, nor do i want, a "gaming pc." i just want a console that works and doesn't make you phone home every 24 hours.


This.  I don't enjoy PC gaming either.

The last PC game i've played was Roller Coaster tycoon.
 
2013-06-13 06:09:06 PM

AdamK: forcing products on people when they don't want them is what's getting Microsoft in trouble


That part of it doesn't bother me at all.  Neither does the online requirement.

It's all about the DRM/Used games.  That pretty much kills the deal.
 
2013-06-13 06:12:47 PM

Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???


to be honest, neither microsoft nor sony showed games i actually wanted to play (well, maybe infamous)

i'd be shocked if any launch titles for either platform even get in the top 10 this fall against MGS5, GTA5, GT6, a 3d mario, cross-gen games like call of duty & watch dogs, etc.
 
2013-06-13 06:13:20 PM

Enemabag Jones: timujin
The one thing they don't cover, and this is the be-all and end-all of why I'll pick a console, is functionality and (as subsets) online multiplayer and, more difficult to describe, game "feel"... I simply prefer playing games on my Xbox over my PS3.  I have no idea yet which of the new consoles I'll like better, but none of the "three fronts" listed above mean much to me.

Can Steve Ballmer come over to your house once in while and verbally abuse you too, as long as the gameplay experience works on the console?


Congrats, that's the stupidest reply to a comment I've received this month.  Come up and get your prize, a brand new KHITBASH!
 
2013-06-13 06:14:29 PM

FlashHarry: i've been a loyal xbox owner since the first one back in 2001, but there's NO way i'll get an xbone. when it comes time to get a "next gen" console, it'll be a PS4. microsoft really screwed their customers (and themselves) on this one.


Well the boobies pretty much said everything I was going to come in here and post. I'm going to miss the 360 controller though.
 
2013-06-13 06:14:51 PM
While I have preordered my PS4 and almost have it paid off already. (thanks to $100 trade in credit for 5 games at EB even though I took it up the ass) I'm still very much intrigued by the Xbox One.

After reading that long ass pastebin from a random MS Engineer, it explains things better than any of the big boys at MS have been able to do.

I understand where MS is trying to push things, and I commmend them for it.  I just don't think gamers are ready for it.

There's still a little bit of me thinking that maybe the Xbox One is better for the long term of console gaming, and maybe that by the time the next gen after this one rolls around, the Xbox One will be the system that ended up being more successful.

/still getting a PS4
//want a Xbox One at some point
 
2013-06-13 06:15:09 PM

Virtual Pariah: I realize the answers are almost non-answers, but, Sony is stating pretty plainly that they are not going to dictate the used strategy of their publishing partners.


That's an answer.  It's not "the used game market won't be killed", it's "if something kills the used game market, it's not going to be anything we did."

While I do wish Sony (and Nintendo) would take more of a stance on this used game thing, I understand that they are somewhat dependent on developers and thus need to not deliberately provoke them.  Within that though this is about as succinct a tell-off as they can deliver.  It's basically, "you want to start a business war? Fine, do what you want, but we won't be helping you do it."

AdamK: well if you downloaded it from PSN and XBLA, eventually yes


There's a subtle difference there though: while MS has outright said that XBLA titles will never work on the Xbone, Sony has said that PSN titles won't transfer over at launch time, but that they are looking into alternatives for sometime down the road.  Basically, one is "f%$# your games", while the other is "uhm... we'll think about it."

Like I said, subtle difference.  It's not much better, but at least the Sony response has some slim chance of leading to something.
 
2013-06-13 06:16:20 PM
yukichigai:

And why wouldn't they?  The publishers seem super eager to be allowed to set up that wood chipper so they can jump into it feet first, to the point where not being able to may be a dealbreaker for a game being made for a specific console.  Sony will get their money for the licensing fees but bear none of the responsibility for making such an awful design decision.  Hell, it might indirectly boost sales of games made by Sony's own in-house publishing and development studios.

They shouldn't.

All I've been trying to say is that although MS has been terrible in explaining the DRM situation, It's ultimately going to be up to the publishers to implement the tools.

MS would have been better off showing the new system and stating that it will come with a "free" Kinect while leaving the DRM issues to the publishers pressers.
Just because the DRM system is built into the box, if one publisher turns it on, it would have been the fault of the publisher, rather than the fault of the box producer.

IMO Microsoft outsmarted themselves by revealing a "feature" that should have sat in an internal memo to the publishers. If it was never turned on, it would have been irrelevant.
 
2013-06-13 06:23:47 PM
What really gets under my skin are the comments that begin with "Microsoft better have some really awesome games..."

I want to know how X number of "awesome" games will make any amount of shiat acceptable. Shouldn't there be a line you draw? I mean, the XBone has pretty much hit upon all the worst transgressions we could imagine in gaming, which I won't bother to repeat. When do we say, "Keep your games, I don't care how good they are, I'm not going to support your shiatty practices"? How does Microsoft still have a built-in fanbase after what they've pulled? Not to get political, but I keep hearing about the rise of the Libertarian and the wonders of the free market, but it seems like I'm the only person I know trying to make this free market work by not buying things on principle.

I was so looking forward to SimCity. Guess what? I haven't played it. I didn't buy it, I didn't pirate it, I didn't crack it. EA didn't get my money, nor can they blame me for a lost sale. I can only wonder what amazing things could have happened if more people did what I do all the time. I guess we'll never know, because anyone would willingly be farked in every available hole by AIDS-infested gorillas if the pot is sweet enough.
 
2013-06-13 06:24:04 PM

Doogles4221: What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???


Again; you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible, then whining that there's not many new exclusives. You're actually claiming that announced, demoed but unnamed games don't count as exclusives, for god's sake.

Now that said; it's true that the Xbox One has a few more exclusives. There is a lot of PS4 games that seem to be semi-exclusive (they're not coming out on the Xbone, but they are coming out on the PS3, PC and/or the WiiU), though.  Personally I never get around to playing 1/10th of all the good-looking games that get released these days (damn you, employment/family/hobbies/life), so exclusives aren't usually a dealmaker for me either way.
 
2013-06-13 06:24:43 PM

Virtual Pariah: yukichigai:

And why wouldn't they?  The publishers seem super eager to be allowed to set up that wood chipper so they can jump into it feet first, to the point where not being able to may be a dealbreaker for a game being made for a specific console.  Sony will get their money for the licensing fees but bear none of the responsibility for making such an awful design decision.  Hell, it might indirectly boost sales of games made by Sony's own in-house publishing and development studios.

They shouldn't.

All I've been trying to say is that although MS has been terrible in explaining the DRM situation, It's ultimately going to be up to the publishers to implement the tools.

MS would have been better off showing the new system and stating that it will come with a "free" Kinect while leaving the DRM issues to the publishers pressers.
Just because the DRM system is built into the box, if one publisher turns it on, it would have been the fault of the publisher, rather than the fault of the box producer.

IMO Microsoft outsmarted themselves by revealing a "feature" that should have sat in an internal memo to the publishers. If it was never turned on, it would have been irrelevant.


That would matter if the feature was optional on the Xbone at all.  With the way their system is, even if the publisher doesn't want that level of DRM they get it anyway.  Games MUST be activated online with MS's servers.  Games MUST be tied to an account.  Games MUST be installed to the hard drive.  Trading games can ONLY be done once for a limited time.  The console MUST get on the internet at least once every 24 hours for games to continue working.  These are things which are REQUIRED of any game on the Xbone, period.  In this case, it very much is the fault of the box producer.
 
2013-06-13 06:24:56 PM
timujin,
Congrats, that's the stupidest reply to a comment I've received this month. Come up and get your prize, a brand new KHITBAshia


thanks, that makes me feel specail...
 
2013-06-13 06:27:24 PM

Gunther: Doogles4221: What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???

Again; you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible, then whining that there's not many new exclusives. You're actually claiming that announced, demoed but unnamed games don't count as exclusives, for god's sake.

Now that said; it's true that the Xbox One has a few more exclusives. There is a lot of PS4 games that seem to be semi-exclusive (they're not coming out on the Xbone, but they are coming out on the PS3, PC and/or the WiiU), though.  Personally I never get around to playing 1/10th of all the good-looking games that get released these days (damn you, employment/family/hobbies/life), so exclusives aren't usually a dealmaker for me either way.


Doogles4221: (favorite: Expert troll or Microsoft shill, you decide)

Please stop feeding the shiatrolls.
 
2013-06-13 06:28:55 PM
 
2013-06-13 06:29:04 PM

yukichigai: Please stop feeding the shiatrolls.


Okay, I combined the worlds "shill" and "troll" on that one, and somehow the filter turned it into that.  Dafuq?

...actually I think I like that better.
 
2013-06-13 06:29:38 PM
I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.
 
2013-06-13 06:32:41 PM
Seriously people. GIVE SONY TIME. They will do something to piss off gamers across the world.

They haven't disappointed yet.

/For the record, I thoroughly enjoy my PS3. I just recognize that it's always a countdown until the next Sony shiatstorm.
 
2013-06-13 06:35:26 PM

I Like Bread: I want to know how X number of "awesome" games will make any amount of shiat acceptable.


Judging from the past myriad complaints judged to be 'unforgivable sins' at the time by each big console maker I would have to say somewhere between one and three. But for many just one will do it.

/cocaine is a helluva drug
//as is gaming
 
2013-06-13 06:45:20 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.


"Bag of dicks" is what I call your management style.
 
2013-06-13 06:54:10 PM

timswar: Seriously people. GIVE SONY TIME. They will do something to piss off gamers across the world.

They haven't disappointed yet.

/For the record, I thoroughly enjoy my PS3. I just recognize that it's always a countdown until the next Sony shiatstorm.


all 3 companies are notorious for eventually having major screwups and/or dropping the ball, there's not a great history in video games of perfection

that said, every dog has its day, and in this case sony's going to reap the rewards while microsoft eats dirt

but hey, 3rd console curse and all that, if nintendo/sega/sony went through it then who cares if microsoft goes through it, if they do a sega and never figure it out, oh well, gaming will go on, and it's not our job as gamers to prop up companies so let them eat dirt
 
2013-06-13 06:55:11 PM
Yeah I'm a long time Xbox fan, but I won't be buying it unless they change their policies. I am online 24/7, I rarely buy used games, and I never share my games... but I care because I think people should be allowed to. 

I won't be getting a Wii as I feel like Nintendo has focused their product more towards children's games, and I really couldn't care for anything other than Zelda. All the new technology towards visual stunning video games and Nintendo still makes blobby cartoon characters.

PS4 will be my choice if I get one at all. Will probably wait a year or so to let the price drop first though.
 
2013-06-13 07:00:07 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.


And then they'll go buy it from amazon.com while you complain that internet business is killing mom & pop stores.

Right now XB1 is the top selling item in the video game section of Amazon. PS4 is the second. It'll probably flip flop between the two for the next month and then again when the release date nears. People are going to buy the new consoles whether Farkers approve or not.
 
2013-06-13 07:22:24 PM

Mock26: Sony has released a video explaining in great detail how to share your PlayStation games with your friends. It is worth watching.


The view number on that video alone should be enough to dissuade publishers from going the DRM route.  !0 million views in three days for a 22 second clip = a lot of console users don't want restrictions on game trading.
 
2013-06-13 07:22:46 PM

SleepingEye: Someothermonkey: The price won't matter for the average consumer? Seriously?

I don't think you know what the average consumer is exactly.

I don't think you know what the average consumer is exactly.

You know why the used-game bin has a million copies of <insert Sports game> <Insert year, possibly abbreviated with a K>?

Someone bought that for $60-80 and threw it away the year after because they bought the <insert year, possibly abbreviated with a K+1> version the year after.  How many of these people have all 8383 COD games now?  All 3984 Halo series?

If the consumer wants it badly enough, they make the money for it.


Heh.  I just did this yesterday, so I am getting a kick...

Traded in 5 games for $100 credit at EB

The games?

COD: Black Ops II (owned all the COD games one time or another)
NHL 13  (owned every NHL ever)
MADDEN 13 (likewise)
BORDERLANDS 2 (owned the first one, and eventually the 3rd one whenever that get's released)
SKYRIM (goes without saying)

/I am the average consumer
//and loving it
 
2013-06-13 07:27:37 PM

Bubblegum Tate: kronicfeld: DanZero: img.photobucket.com

The Netflix thing is way too trivial to include there. Who doesn't already have ten devices to watch Netflix? Between TV apps, Blu-Ray players, Roku and the like, there are a ton of ways to get that on your TV without using your video game system.

my ps3 just bricked 2 weeks ago and I just ordered a roku box.  $150 for Sony to fix the ps3 btw.  I was really hoping for a price drop announcement at E3.  Or backwards compatibility.  Remember when consoles didn't break?


Optical media ruined pretty much all modern technology that relies on it. We'd all be better off going back to cartridges, now that we have pretty huge memory sizes available in small packages.
 
2013-06-13 07:28:34 PM

Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???


Heretic!  You take that back, you take that back right now.

BTW, Beyond: Two Junos is a PS3 game, and it's going to be glorious.

/David Cage can do no wrong
//Quantic Dream can do no wrong
///fanboy for life!
 
2013-06-13 07:30:23 PM
Making sure I have this right, from the MS side, about Sony's past...

Sony will inevitably make a mistake, somehow.  We don't know what it is.  We don't know who it will effect.  We don't know anything about this mistake.  But be assured, Sony will screw up.  They have shown an ability to learn and adapt from those mistakes, but huge mistakes are intolerable, especially the future ones we know nothing about.  I am assuming that we are working on the premise that Microsoft has never made a significant mistake... ever... ever ever... right?

Knowing this means that we should completely overlook the fact that MS is repeatedly getting spanked over a veritable cornucopia of foolish mistakes, built into the product.  OH, and while virtually identitcal in performance, still behind the PS4 in more than one aspect of architecture.

Recap: Both sides are bad (I think?), so buy Microsoft.

THANKS!  Got it.
 
2013-06-13 07:31:13 PM

LoR75: Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???

Heretic!  You take that back, you take that back right now.

BTW, Beyond: Two Junos is a PS3 game, and it's going to be glorious.

/David Cage can do no wrong
//Quantic Dream can do no wrong
///fanboy for life!


David cage is a graphics whore and should feel shame!
 
2013-06-13 07:31:50 PM

EngineerAU: Right now XB1 is the top selling item in the video game section of Amazon. PS4 is the second. It'll probably flip flop between the two for the next month and then again when the release date nears. People are going to buy the new consoles whether Farkers approve or not.


Word. Nothing cracks me up like a principled gamer making a stand.
 
2013-06-13 07:33:30 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.


Out of curiosity, what's your trade in value vs. resell cost?
 
2013-06-13 07:36:47 PM

Kinek: LoR75: Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???

Heretic!  You take that back, you take that back right now.

BTW, Beyond: Two Junos is a PS3 game, and it's going to be glorious.

/David Cage can do no wrong
//Quantic Dream can do no wrong
///fanboy for life!

David cage is a graphics whore and should feel shame!


LOL.  Ok, I'll give you that, but he writes a good game as well.

Why should he feel shame for pushing a playstation as far as it can go?  Heavy Rain was beautiful and brilliant, I expect nothing less of Beyond: Two Junos, and I am sure "The Sorceror" will also be fantastic.
 
2013-06-13 07:38:00 PM

LoR75: Kinek: LoR75: Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???

Heretic!  You take that back, you take that back right now.

BTW, Beyond: Two Junos is a PS3 game, and it's going to be glorious.

/David Cage can do no wrong
//Quantic Dream can do no wrong
///fanboy for life!

David cage is a graphics whore and should feel shame!

LOL.  Ok, I'll give you that, but he writes a good game as well.

Why should he feel shame for pushing a playstation as far as it can go?  Heavy Rain was beautiful and brilliant, I expect nothing less of Beyond: Two Junos, and I am sure "The Sorceror" will also be fantastic.


No love for indigo prophecy?
 
2013-06-13 07:46:21 PM

LoR75: Kinek: LoR75: Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???

Heretic!  You take that back, you take that back right now.

BTW, Beyond: Two Junos is a PS3 game, and it's going to be glorious.

/David Cage can do no wrong
//Quantic Dream can do no wrong
///fanboy for life!

David cage is a graphics whore and should feel shame!

LOL.  Ok, I'll give you that, but he writes a good game as well.

Why should he feel shame for pushing a playstation as far as it can go?  Heavy Rain was beautiful and brilliant, I expect nothing less of Beyond: Two Junos, and I am sure "The Sorceror" will also be fantastic.


I still can't get past the twist in Heavy rain. WHY would the Killer go to all that trouble to test what's his face, and then SHOOT HIM WHEN HE PASSES? WHY!
 
2013-06-13 07:51:14 PM
techreport.com
(Steam in Big Picture mode)

+

img.diytrade.com
(with an Xbox 360 controller)

+

www.zdnet.com
($600 gaming PC)

+

img.engadget.com
your HDTV (Asian woman optional)

+

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
your couch

=

ak0.picdn.net
Gaming in your living room (girlfriend/boyfriend optional)

minus

www.wired.com
 
2013-06-13 07:52:58 PM
Enemabag Jones:
/For the love of god, why wasn't there a star wars light saber game based on that wii sports sword game.  It shouted out too be made.

There was.  I have it. It kind of sucks.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-06-13 08:01:01 PM
I heard that 1.4 million Xbox One preorders were made in the first 24 hours... to put that in perspective, at $499 per system, that is $698,600,000 worth... Seems pretty huge to me.

I think both Sony and Microsoft has done phenomenally well with their launches despite the freakouts by some people about some of the Xbox One setup.

Personally I think Microsoft did better overall because they had a MUCH better game lineup than Sony did.
 
2013-06-13 08:04:52 PM

Virtual Pariah: FuryOfFirestorm:

Basically, Microsoft is giving publishers the tools to restrict games in those ways, while Sony is stepping way the f%$# back so any publishers who want to go that route are free to suffer the backlash alone.

No,
Both have the tools available, but only 1 may have announced it.
MS takes the PR hit and Sony walks away smelling good.

Console resources are too scarce to have anything unnecessary coded in that are not part of the dev tools.

The paranoid part of me wonders how much collusion goes on between the companies.


Fact: Sony has announced DRM will be the same for the PS4 as it has always been for every PlayStation prior; disc based.

Let us know if you need any help comprehending anything else.
 
2013-06-13 08:12:20 PM
Super Smash Bros. and Mega Man.  Need I say more?
 
2013-06-13 08:12:51 PM

JohnnyC: I heard that 1.4 million Xbox One preorders were made in the first 24 hours... to put that in perspective, at $499 per system, that is $698,600,000 worth... Seems pretty huge to me.

I think both Sony and Microsoft has done phenomenally well with their launches despite the freakouts by some people about some of the Xbox One setup.

Personally I think Microsoft did better overall because they had a MUCH better game lineup than Sony did.


Seriously, there are going to be many more people disappointed in the sales numbers on Fark and Reddit than in Redmond. What remains to be seen is how well the new consoles will work in the wild. Microsoft is making some big assumptions about internet quality in the US.
 
2013-06-13 08:15:23 PM

Virtual Pariah: Antimatter: Virtual Pariah: FuryOfFirestorm:

Basically, Microsoft is giving publishers the tools to restrict games in those ways, while Sony is stepping way the f%$# back so any publishers who want to go that route are free to suffer the backlash alone.

No,
Both have the tools available, but only 1 may have announced it.
MS takes the PR hit and Sony walks away smelling good.

Console resources are too scarce to have anything unnecessary coded in that are not part of the dev tools.

The paranoid part of me wonders how much collusion goes on between the companies.

The ps4's DRM is the exact same as the ps3's, this has been confirmed by sony.  Several times.  There is a lot of fud from the MS camp to try to make it sound like both sides are doing the same thing, but so far, that's just not true.  Sony has no plans to create the massive DRM structure MS is doing for the Xbone.

Both Sony and EA have scrapped online passes for the ps4, and hell, EA scrapped all of them retroactively as well.  Turns out, the cost of running such a setup outweighs the profits from it, and the hit to the publishers reputation.  I can't imagine how many millions it's going to cost MS to keep and maintain their proposed DRM structure.

MS went with the DRM system because they wanted it, due to the desire to have 100% control over all things xbox, and your living room.  Nintendo and Sony are more then happy to stick to the profitable status quo.

Jack Tretton disagrees with you.

Asked further if PlayStation 4 would allow for types of DRM for third-party games, Tretton answered, "The DRM decision is going to have to be in the hands of third-parties. That's not something we're going to dictate, control, mandate or implement."

That's not FUD, That's from Sony.


You can troll better than that.
 
2013-06-13 08:19:21 PM

Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???


If I were you I'd buy an XBone.
 
2013-06-13 08:33:17 PM

JohnnyC: I heard that 1.4 million Xbox One preorders were made in the first 24 hours... to put that in perspective, at $499 per system, that is $698,600,000 worth... Seems pretty huge to me.

I think both Sony and Microsoft has done phenomenally well with their launches despite the freakouts by some people about some of the Xbox One setup.

Personally I think Microsoft did better overall because they had a MUCH better game lineup than Sony did.


Which raises the question -- and sorry if this has already been brought up -- what percentage of the potential user base even knows about the issues being discussed here, much less cares about it. I know it's a big deal here and in other gaming forums, but how many people actually read any of that. I've been in my share of Walmarts and Targets and Best Buys and Gamestops (there are 5 of them within 2 miles of my house for some reason; 2 a block apart from each other on the same street) and my experience suggests that the typical consumer there isn't saying "My, these DRM and connectivity issue are troubling." They're saying "fark, yeah! A new Xbox. I bet Madden'll be kick-ass on that!".
If this is indeed the case, then MS probably doesn't give a shiat what anyone's saying about them, just as long as they're talking about them and keeping the XBox One name out there.

/Still think Xbox One is an even worse name than Wii U
 
2013-06-13 08:45:16 PM

Hebalo: 1) Farkers are not exactly the "average user". The "average user" doesn't care about trading games (really, who does that anyway?), couldn't care less about whether they have to be connected to the net (I'd wager the VAST majority of current gaming systems are connected 24/7).


If you've ever worked in a game store and seen the types of people that come in, you'd know that you're wrong.

Also, 24/7 is 24/7 until it's not. Moved to a new house and disconnected for a few days? Eat shiat. Storm knocked out service for a few days? Sucks to be you.

2) The price difference won't matter.

Saying it doesn't make it true

3) People keep (wrongly) making the assumption that they are comparing two gaming systems. PS4 is a gaming system. XBONE is an entertainment center, for people who don't want to put together a media PC.

When I started typing I thought you were serious. Are you a paid shill? Every video game system since the Nintendo Entertainment System has billed itself as an Entertainment System. If people want a media set-top box, they'll get a Roku, a Boxee, a "smart" Blu-ray player, or a smart tv. Besides that, there's not much media functionality XBox has that PS4 doesn't.
 
2013-06-13 08:53:13 PM

LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.

Out of curiosity, what's your trade in value vs. resell cost?


Depends entirely on the condition of the game. We do up to %80 of current value for a trade in. The mark up is an industry secret, but it's not much. Our customers tell us we give an amazing deal compared to game$top, and our prices make both them and k-fart look like a ripoff. We also trade everything in video game history. We aren't getting rich, but we keep the lights on and the customers happy.
 
2013-06-13 09:26:13 PM
Couldn't get through any of the bandwagon derp. The next gen Xbox is a well-planned, forward-thinking console. A year from now when Sony has assfarked their fan base yet again, we can revisit this discussion. Morans.
 
2013-06-13 09:29:55 PM
Final Score:

Playstation 4

Xbox 1
 
2013-06-13 09:30:04 PM

ZeroCorpse: [techreport.com image 620x349]
(Steam in Big Picture mode)

+

[img.diytrade.com image 850x637]
(with an Xbox 360 controller)

+

[www.zdnet.com image 460x655]
($600 gaming PC)

+

[img.engadget.com image 425x304]
your HDTV (Asian woman optional)

+

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 294x171]
your couch

=

[ak0.picdn.net image 400x224]
Gaming in your living room (girlfriend/boyfriend optional)

minus

[www.wired.com image 471x257]


There's a thread just for you guys right above.
 
2013-06-13 09:30:37 PM

Kinek: LoR75: Kinek: LoR75: Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???

Heretic!  You take that back, you take that back right now.

BTW, Beyond: Two Junos is a PS3 game, and it's going to be glorious.

/David Cage can do no wrong
//Quantic Dream can do no wrong
///fanboy for life!

David cage is a graphics whore and should feel shame!

LOL.  Ok, I'll give you that, but he writes a good game as well.

Why should he feel shame for pushing a playstation as far as it can go?  Heavy Rain was beautiful and brilliant, I expect nothing less of Beyond: Two Junos, and I am sure "The Sorceror" will also be fantastic.

I still can't get past the twist in Heavy rain. WHY would the Killer go to all that trouble to test what's his face, and then SHOOT HIM WHEN HE PASSES? WHY!




I think because he realized that this father was different, especially from his own father, who he blamed for never caring. I don't know, that's what I took of it. Sort of that Shaun doesn't deserve a good father like Ethan, because his own father was a drunk.
 
2013-06-13 09:34:27 PM

deeyablo: LoR75: Kinek: LoR75: Doogles4221: Gunther: Doogles4221: Order 1884 by Ready for Dawn(trailer only), was the only NEW PS4 exclusive game

So you're defining both "new" and "exclusive" absurdly narrowly so as few games count as possible (you're ignoring indie games (I mentioned them. Sony did not say if they which are exclusive, but at least one of them are on steam right now), games announced before E3    (are not "new" by definition), untitled games like QD's new IP    (are not games at this point, just tech demos/ideas that may never be released), games that are also coming out for the PS3.(not PS4 exclusive)

Doogles4221: Sony had the worst e3 conference I have ever seen

How do you expect us to take you seriously when you say shiat like that?

IMO, Sony had one job, show me games that I want to play on the PS4, and they failed. The press confrence was showing third-party games I can play on another system.
Infamous looked like it has promise, but showed little new, just bigger and prettier. Beyond: was first shown as a drama game, and the new footage looked like part of it is just another generic third person shooter.

What PS4 game did Sony show that I cannot get elsewhere???

Heretic!  You take that back, you take that back right now.

BTW, Beyond: Two Junos is a PS3 game, and it's going to be glorious.

/David Cage can do no wrong
//Quantic Dream can do no wrong
///fanboy for life!

David cage is a graphics whore and should feel shame!

LOL.  Ok, I'll give you that, but he writes a good game as well.

Why should he feel shame for pushing a playstation as far as it can go?  Heavy Rain was beautiful and brilliant, I expect nothing less of Beyond: Two Junos, and I am sure "The Sorceror" will also be fantastic.

No love for indigo prophecy?




It's what started my love affair with them, although I didn't quite like the twist in that with the clan. It is still a fantastic game, and they really ironed out some of my issues with it in Heavy Rain.
 
2013-06-13 09:42:30 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.

Out of curiosity, what's your trade in value vs. resell cost?

Depends entirely on the condition of the game. We do up to %80 of current value for a trade in. The mark up is an industry secret, but it's not much. Our customers tell us we give an amazing deal compared to game$top, and our prices make both them and k-fart look like a ripoff. We also trade everything in video game history. We aren't getting rich, but we keep the lights on and the customers happy.




That's fair to your customers, but you are still taking money out of the pocket of those developers. Plus you are doing a disservice to your customers by steering them away from a console because it may hurt your own pocketbook. That's shady, at best.

I do business (when I can) with an independently owned game store (while there is an EB literally two doors away), however if they ever told me what I should and should not buy based on fear mongering, I would never do business with them again.
 
2013-06-13 09:49:27 PM

Riotboy: Final Score:

Playstation 4

Xbox 1


That's original. Ever had a unique thought?
 
2013-06-13 09:50:23 PM

JohnnyC: I heard that 1.4 million Xbox One preorders were made in the first 24 hours... to put that in perspective, at $499 per system, that is $698,600,000 worth... Seems pretty huge to me.

I think both Sony and Microsoft has done phenomenally well with their launches despite the freakouts by some people about some of the Xbox One setup.

Personally I think Microsoft did better overall because they had a MUCH better game lineup than Sony did.


You gotta know that a LARGE number of those preorders were from eBay flippers/profiteers who hope to double their money around the holidays.

And I think they're going to be pretty unhappy. Nobody's going to pay $1000 for an Xbox One. Nobody will even pay $700 for one. Personally, I wouldn't even pay $300 for one.

If it were $100 I'd consider it, as long as I could point the Kinect sensor at a manikin in a closet while I play games and watch movies.
 
2013-06-13 10:10:23 PM

LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.

Out of curiosity, what's your trade in value vs. resell cost?

Depends entirely on the condition of the game. We do up to %80 of current value for a trade in. The mark up is an industry secret, but it's not much. Our customers tell us we give an amazing deal compared to game$top, and our prices make both them and k-fart look like a ripoff. We also trade everything in video game history. We aren't getting rich, but we keep the lights on and the customers happy.

That's fair to your customers, but you are still taking money out of the pocket of those developers. Plus you are doing a disservice to your customers by steering them away from a console because it may hurt your own pocketbook. That's shady, at best.

I do business (when I can) with an independently owned game store (while there is an EB literally two doors away), however if they ever told me what I should and should not buy based on fear mongering, I would never do business with them again.


See, I don't understand this argument.

When you buy a car from a dealer and then decide to trade it in years later, the manufacturer (developer) doesn't get a cut and there's no outrage over that. This is the same as say, used clothing, used appliances etc. What makes the fact that it's code so damn special?

The developers get their cut back on the initial purchase just like everyone else.
 
2013-06-13 10:11:16 PM
I logged more hours on my 3DO than I ever did with my 360.  True story, bro.
 
2013-06-13 10:14:43 PM

Doogles4221: PS4-eye not being packed in; expect NO games that take use it in a cool way.


Motion controls, no matter how they're done, are gimmicky, and therefore a kiddie / niche / indy market.

There's only so much that can be done.  I'd rather have the controller that's adapted to gamers/games over the generations than a new unwieldy control scheme that has to have game's written around it.

I will always be able to do more complicated tasks with my hands(with precision) than trying to imitate some arcane pose with my body..and having the software kind of vaguely get an idea of what I'm doing.

That's part of what made us better than any other species on the planet, manual dexterity and opposable digits.
 
2013-06-13 10:22:25 PM

LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.

Out of curiosity, what's your trade in value vs. resell cost?

Depends entirely on the condition of the game. We do up to %80 of current value for a trade in. The mark up is an industry secret, but it's not much. Our customers tell us we give an amazing deal compared to game$top, and our prices make both them and k-fart look like a ripoff. We also trade everything in video game history. We aren't getting rich, but we keep the lights on and the customers happy.

That's fair to your customers, but you are still taking money out of the pocket of those developers. Plus you are doing a disservice to your customers by steering them away from a console because it may hurt your own pocketbook. That's shady, at best.

I do business (when I can) with an independently owned game store (while there is an EB literally two doors away), however if they ever told me what I should and should not buy based on fear mongering, I would never do business with them again.


Complete and utter garbage. Developers get their cut at the initial sale, just like every other entity. Why on earth do they deserve two slices of the pie when no other type of product works that way? If you sell your home, do the initial builders and architects stick their hands in for their cut? Your car? Dvds? Books? Clothes? Furniture? No.

Seriously, why are developers so entitled?
 
2013-06-13 10:28:02 PM

SleepingEye: Someothermonkey: The price won't matter for the average consumer? Seriously?

I don't think you know what the average consumer is exactly.

I don't think you know what the average consumer is exactly.

You know why the used-game bin has a million copies of <insert Sports game> <Insert year, possibly abbreviated with a K>?

Someone bought that for $60-80 and threw it away the year after because they bought the <insert year, possibly abbreviated with a K+1> version the year after.  How many of these people have all 8383 COD games now?  All 3984 Halo series?

If the consumer wants it badly enough, they make the money for it.


What you're saying doesn't even make any sense.

Yeah, people buy games and trade them in. Why? Because they get money back, which they can spend however. Meaning, money matters to them.

But in anycase, we're not talking about games here, we're talking about the consoles themselves. And when one costs $100 more, offers less power, comes with more restrictions and DRM, all while destroying the basic concept of ownership, the console that doesn't do any of that is likely to be more appealing.

Especially when retailers start pushing the PS4 over the Xbone because they'll make more money that way. Seems like the geniuses at Microsoft were too stupid to learn the lessons of the PSPgo.
 
2013-06-13 10:41:10 PM

Someothermonkey: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.

Out of curiosity, what's your trade in value vs. resell cost?

Depends entirely on the condition of the game. We do up to %80 of current value for a trade in. The mark up is an industry secret, but it's not much. Our customers tell us we give an amazing deal compared to game$top, and our prices make both them and k-fart look like a ripoff. We also trade everything in video game history. We aren't getting rich, but we keep the lights on and the customers happy.

That's fair to your customers, but you are still taking money out of the pocket of those developers. Plus you are doing a disservice to your customers by steering them away from a console because it may hurt your own pocketbook. That's shady, at best.

I do business (when I can) with an independently owned game store (while there is an EB literally two doors away), however if they ever told me what I should and should not buy based on fear mongering, I would never do business with them again.

Complete and utter garbage. Developers get their cut at the initial sale, just like every other entity. Why on earth do they deserve two s ...




Because it can further fund future developments, keeping those middle devs in business and creating new, and interesting IPs instead of either being shuttered or taking the desperate money and being folded into Activision or EA

Used games are the reason games are mostly $60.

Move it fully to digital distribution, cutout all that bullshiat that retail does, and enjoy those steam like sales, because guess what, those devs are going to make more money that way, which will keep them in business, than battling for shelf space at your local POS EB while their game gets sold over and over again all while not seeing a dime of it.

You are much more likely to take a chance on a steam title that's been discounted by 50% than walking into your EB and buying a used copy of a game that's discounted 10%. Plus you are doing a service to that developer. They get a cut of that sale, regardless of discount. They get jack shiat on that used game.
 
2013-06-13 10:55:30 PM

LoR75: Someothermonkey: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.

Out of curiosity, what's your trade in value vs. resell cost?

Depends entirely on the condition of the game. We do up to %80 of current value for a trade in. The mark up is an industry secret, but it's not much. Our customers tell us we give an amazing deal compared to game$top, and our prices make both them and k-fart look like a ripoff. We also trade everything in video game history. We aren't getting rich, but we keep the lights on and the customers happy.

That's fair to your customers, but you are still taking money out of the pocket of those developers. Plus you are doing a disservice to your customers by steering them away from a console because it may hurt your own pocketbook. That's shady, at best.

I do business (when I can) with an independently owned game store (while there is an EB literally two doors away), however if they ever told me what I should and should not buy based on fear mongering, I would never do business with them again.

Complete and utter garbage. Developers get their cut at the initial sale, just like every other entity. Why on earth do t ...


You argument is still crap.

That could be said for car manufacturers, book publishers, clothing manufacturers, appliance manufacturers etc. Guess what, none of them are losing money on second hand sales because they realize that once they sell it to a customer, its now that customers property.

As much as the developers like to think they're selling a license to play their game, they're not.

If they want it to be licensed then they should make it tied to a specific device that they produce and sell. The supreme court has routinely upheld the right to resell your property and do with your property anything that you wan so long as it doesn't break any laws.

The fact that they are 1's and 0's on a disc doesn't change the fact that it's my property. I paid for it. If I want to load it into a skeet shooter and shatter it into a million pieces, I can. If I want to play it until I finish it and then give it to my friend, I can. It's mine.
 
2013-06-13 10:58:57 PM

LoR75: Someothermonkey: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: LoR75: Ego edo infantia cattus: I run a huge used video games store. (Mom and pop not corporate) and I love telling people about the xbone. Obviously, as a retailer in the used game market, I don't like the direction MS is trying to take things, and I was a bit worried before Sony put their cards on the table. Now I'm just elated. All I have to do is tell the truth, and the customer immediately realizes that one of the two companies is trying to screw everyone over. This kind of totalitarian money grubbing bullshiat isn't going to happen for at least another three console generations now that MS is drowning in their own greed. Fan-farking-tastic.

Customer: Hey, are you going to be getting any xbox ones in? Can I pre-order one?

Me: BU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...NO.
       ...and here's why you don't want one...

/MS can go eat a bag of dicks.

Out of curiosity, what's your trade in value vs. resell cost?

Depends entirely on the condition of the game. We do up to %80 of current value for a trade in. The mark up is an industry secret, but it's not much. Our customers tell us we give an amazing deal compared to game$top, and our prices make both them and k-fart look like a ripoff. We also trade everything in video game history. We aren't getting rich, but we keep the lights on and the customers happy.

That's fair to your customers, but you are still taking money out of the pocket of those developers. Plus you are doing a disservice to your customers by steering them away from a console because it may hurt your own pocketbook. That's shady, at best.

I do business (when I can) with an independently owned game store (while there is an EB literally two doors away), however if they ever told me what I should and should not buy based on fear mongering, I would never do business with them again.

Complete and utter garbage. Developers get their cut at the initial sale, just like every other entity. Why on earth do t ...


If developers don't like the idea of used games, then they should create a model that discourages them, not a model the eliminates consumers right to choose to resell a game if they want to or not. They can start by creating games that gamers want to keep and hold on to instead of released shovelware quality titles that cost a $100M to make and then crying when they they don't sell like CoD.

And new games costing $60 because of used games is nonsense. If all new titles released at $30, there would be no used games market. It'd be cheap enough at the onset so people wouldn't need to even think about buying used.

And again, moving to an all digital era is still way too premature. Out of the 77M 360's shipped, they're only 25M gold accounts. Not everyone has the capacity to or the ability to download 30 to 50GB games quickly or easily enough to make a digital only system viable.

And obviously developers don't make money on used game sales. That's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Car manufactures don't get a cut of the used car market, but you don't hear them whining and trying destroy fundamental consumer rights. Developers don't deserve seconds cuts of the pie. And frankly it's naive to think the developers would be the one actually getting that money in the first place; It'd go to the publishers like Microsoft or EA.
 
2013-06-13 11:09:13 PM

JohnnyC: I heard that 1.4 million Xbox One preorders were made in the first 24 hours... to put that in perspective, at $499 per system, that is $698,600,000 worth... Seems pretty huge to me.

I think both Sony and Microsoft has done phenomenally well with their launches despite the freakouts by some people about some of the Xbox One setup.

Personally I think Microsoft did better overall because they had a MUCH better game lineup than Sony did.


Both had the problem of so many of their games shown were not exclusive.  That's going to muddle the water quite a bit.

On the pre-order side, note how amazon sold enough ps4's to have to create a second sku after a complete sellout of their estimated launch units.

Granted, pre order numbers are bad as a judgement anyways.  I've got friends with 2-3 consoles preordered at different places, both to make sure they get one, as well as maybe to buy another for resale.

Still, I fully expect both to sell out at launch.  The diehard alone will ensure a ton of sales for each.  The question will be which has bette legs in terms of sales after that.  Wii U moved three million before its sales fell off a cliff.
 
2013-06-13 11:31:41 PM

A Shambling Mound: Meanwhile the smart people will wait a year or so to see which console changes the most after release.

MS has a pretty decent history of adding features and functionality (or at least, not breaking anything) while Sony has a solid track record of "F*ck you" so it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the long term.

Everyone jumping around and screaming right now about which one is better before anyone even owns one is hugely amusing, though. I'll give you that.


---

Correct answer.

/XBO definitely has an uphill battle, though.
 
2013-06-13 11:56:47 PM

Hebalo: I've said it before, but:

1) Farkers are not exactly the "average user". The "average user" doesn't care about trading games (really, who does that anyway?), couldn't care less about whether they have to be connected to the net (I'd wager the VAST majority of current gaming systems are connected 24/7).

2) The price difference won't matter.

3) People keep (wrongly) making the assumption that they are comparing two gaming systems. PS4 is a gaming system. XBONE is an entertainment center, for people who don't want to put together a media PC.


1) I don't know about you, but me and all my friends swap games all the time. The majority of gamers I talk to online swap games with their friends. It's a good way to play new games without having to shell out $60 every time.

2) $100 doesn't matter? Is that you, Mitt Romney?

3) If you want an entertainment center, there are options that cost a lot less and with less restrictions. Both the PS3 and 360 are good media centers that don't cost an arm and a leg and make you Steve Ballmer's b*tch. If you're paying $500 just for "SPORTS! TV!", then you're a sucker.
 
2013-06-14 12:04:16 AM

kiwimoogle84: Pretty much this. I was drooling over the ps4 game demos.


The gameplay trailer for inFamous: Second Son was so good, I immediately went to Amazon and pre-ordered it. Check it out
 
2013-06-14 01:06:20 AM

Ambivalence: Now the question will be, how does MS respond? Most of the gripes people have about the XB1 can be reversed through software changes. The question becomes, will they make those changes or stick to their guns?


The only other way they could pull out a win would be if those "can't trade" games go on release day at 20-30 bucks cheaper than the PS4s. Didn't happen with launch titles, can't see it happening in the future, but if they did, maybe their argument would be more compelling, COD on launch at 29.99 or 34.99 instead of 49.99-59.99 would raise eyebrows and maybe validate their DRM logic.
 
2013-06-14 03:27:32 AM
So many farkers are apparently vulnerable to pandering and emotional appeals.

+1 to those of you who are waiting for actual, concrete information.
 
2013-06-14 07:26:54 AM

tacchimonster: A Shambling Mound: Meanwhile the smart people will wait a year or so to see which console changes the most after release.

MS has a pretty decent history of adding features and functionality (or at least, not breaking anything) while Sony has a solid track record of "F*ck you" so it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the long term.

Everyone jumping around and screaming right now about which one is better before anyone even owns one is hugely amusing, though. I'll give you that.

---

Correct answer.

/XBO definitely has an uphill battle, though.


Not really. I don't think the extent of the difference will become apparent until next year, when both systems have had time to mature.
E3 will be forgotten by launch time and most buyers didn't see the presentation. Many who did were too entrenched to notice the differences.
X1 has a slight advantage because its verging closer to multi functional computers and media centers, where P4 aims to "just do games".

/The winner, I suspect, will be the PC.
/Prices have come down, features have gone up, DRM is now in place and many of the more complicated setup issues have been streamlined.
/For what a console will cost you, a consumer can reach a bit higher and get much more out of a PC.
 
2013-06-14 08:04:20 AM

way south: tacchimonster: A Shambling Mound: Meanwhile the smart people will wait a year or so to see which console changes the most after release.

MS has a pretty decent history of adding features and functionality (or at least, not breaking anything) while Sony has a solid track record of "F*ck you" so it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the long term.

Everyone jumping around and screaming right now about which one is better before anyone even owns one is hugely amusing, though. I'll give you that.

---

Correct answer.

/XBO definitely has an uphill battle, though.

Not really. I don't think the extent of the difference will become apparent until next year, when both systems have had time to mature.
E3 will be forgotten by launch time and most buyers didn't see the presentation. Many who did were too entrenched to notice the differences.
X1 has a slight advantage because its verging closer to multi functional computers and media centers, where P4 aims to "just do games".

/The winner, I suspect, will be the PC.
/Prices have come down, features have gone up, DRM is now in place and many of the more complicated setup issues have been streamlined.
/For what a console will cost you, a consumer can reach a bit higher and get much more out of a PC.


maybe if PS4 and xbone were priced the same, but as it is when these things are out there and people walk into a store they'll see one for $100 less than the other, and with the same games, and more positive feedback from other consumers/friends - and that's all it will take to drown the xbone at launch
 
2013-06-14 09:09:36 AM

AdamK: way south: tacchimonster: A Shambling Mound: Meanwhile the smart people will wait a year or so to see which console changes the most after release.

MS has a pretty decent history of adding features and functionality (or at least, not breaking anything) while Sony has a solid track record of "F*ck you" so it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the long term.

Everyone jumping around and screaming right now about which one is better before anyone even owns one is hugely amusing, though. I'll give you that.

---

Correct answer.

/XBO definitely has an uphill battle, though.

Not really. I don't think the extent of the difference will become apparent until next year, when both systems have had time to mature.
E3 will be forgotten by launch time and most buyers didn't see the presentation. Many who did were too entrenched to notice the differences.
X1 has a slight advantage because its verging closer to multi functional computers and media centers, where P4 aims to "just do games".

/The winner, I suspect, will be the PC.
/Prices have come down, features have gone up, DRM is now in place and many of the more complicated setup issues have been streamlined.
/For what a console will cost you, a consumer can reach a bit higher and get much more out of a PC.

maybe if PS4 and xbone were priced the same, but as it is when these things are out there and people walk into a store they'll see one for $100 less than the other, and with the same games, and more positive feedback from other consumers/friends - and that's all it will take to drown the xbone at launch



I'm still betting that the 360 legacy might fark with that plan. Double ungood if Sony goes legacy too.
Feel free to poke fun at me later if I'm wrong, but what the bargain hunters will see are previous gen consoles on the same shelf for $99. They will have most of the same games (at leastthrough 2014) and are going to flood the used game stores.
If money was the problem then You could fill a cart for the price of a PS4 or X1.

That's how it initially went down with the PS2 VS PS3 and 360.  Wii also took a lead because it appealed to many families while also becoming a second-system to the hard core gamers. The Nintendo exclusives and motion control mattered. The PS2 price point was well below what the upgrades will cost.

What we could have in the fall are five mainstream consoles (not counting piston, Ouya, and Android) vying for the "it just does games" title in a market filled with cross platform releases.

Microsoft's bone headed plan (pardon the pun) could pay off by separating itself from other consoles and bribing publishers with DRM.
The only thing I see preventing that is if the X1 collapses into a singularity of bugs and hacks.
 
2013-06-14 09:56:27 AM

way south: AdamK: maybe if PS4 and xbone were priced the same, but as it is when these things are out there and people walk into a store they'll see one for $100 less than the other, and with the same games, and more positive feedback from other consumers/friends - and that's all it will take to drown the xbone at launch


I'm still betting that the 360 legacy might fark with that plan. Double ungood if Sony goes legacy too.
Feel free to poke fun at me later if I'm wrong, but what the bargain hunters will see are previous gen consoles on the same shelf for $99. They will have most of the same games (at leastthrough 2014) and are going to flood the used game stores.
If money was the problem then You could fill a cart for the price of a PS4 or X1.

That's how it initially went down with the PS2 VS PS3 and 360.  Wii also took a lead because it appealed to many families while also becoming a second-system to the hard core gamers. The Nintendo exclusives and motion control mattered. The PS2 price point was well below what the upgrades will cost.

What we could have in the fall are five mainstream consoles (not counting piston, Ouya, and Android) vying for the "it just does games" title in a market filled with cross platform releases.

Microsoft's bone headed plan (pardon the pun) could pay off by separating itself from other consoles and bribing publishers with DRM.
The only thing I see preventing that is if the X1 collapses into a singularity of bugs and hacks.


i think that assumes 3rd parties aren't desperate for more revenue, if given that the hardware is pretty same across both platforms but one has more uptake and therefore more customers to generate revenue - then sony has the advantage over any DRM microsoft might have, on top of the reality xbone might generate less revenue than 360

i agree that PC is the clear beneficiary in all of this, both machines are x86 so porting to PC will become even more commonplace than it already is, Valve also figured out DRM that everybody was okay with years ago, and with a new generation of hardware already coming for PC there's a chance consoles will be just "gap fillers" before they even hit their 2nd year on the market
 
2013-06-14 10:00:21 AM
*edit: also sure neither console will sell as much as we think new consoles should sell when the biggest games of the year are all on platforms currently out
 
2013-06-14 10:40:55 AM
I'm happy when the new consoles come out.  Cheaper used games and since I don't mind being a generation behind, none of this other xbox one crap to deal with.
 
2013-06-14 10:45:47 AM
Hebalo: I've said it before, but:

1) Farkers are not exactly the "average user". The "average user" doesn't care about trading games (really, who does that anyway?), couldn't care less about whether they have to be connected to the net (I'd wager the VAST majority of current gaming systems are connected 24/7).

The "average user" trades games and gives them as gifts all the time. A high-quality game that's been vetted is an excellent spontaneous gift. As the wife said earlier today, trading and giving games is a kind of social currency in schools and the workplace, creating a bridge of commonality between people who may not have much in common otherwise.

2) The price difference won't matter.

If you have anyone else in your life, I bet you can find a dozen better ways to spend $100 considering that, with the vast majority of games being non-exclusive, there is little difference between the systems. Hell, that's a week's groceries or a month of cable and internet for a lot of families.

3) People keep (wrongly) making the assumption that they are comparing two gaming systems. PS4 is a gaming system. XBONE is an entertainment center, for people who don't want to put together a media PC.

What exactly does the XB1 offer that a PS4/360 combo does not in terms of entertainment options? Will Hulu and Netflix not work unless you have a XB1? Will I not be able to play movies and tv shows from my computer? Is the XB1 the only one that can function as a DVR?

Remember, most people care about their desires being satisfied, not what's under the hood.
 
2013-06-14 10:56:46 AM
It's funny but whilst neither of the two new consoles (three I guess if you count the Wii U) appeal to me at all.  However I'd probably hand over money for something that could emulate a PS1, PS2 & PS3 all official like with Sony 's blessed firmware and such.

Beyond the original 60GB launch batch of PS3 I mean.
 
2013-06-14 11:09:50 AM

AdamK: i think that assumes 3rd parties aren't desperate for more revenue, if given that the hardware is pretty same across both platforms but one has more uptake and therefore more customers to generate revenue - then sony has the advantage over any DRM microsoft might have, on top of the reality xbone might generate less revenue than 360

i agree that PC is the clear beneficiary in all of this, both machines are x86 so porting to PC will become even more commonplace than it already is, Valve also figured out DRM that everybody was okay with years ago, and with a new generation of hardware already coming for PC there's a chance consoles will be just "gap fillers" before they even hit their 2nd year on the market



More consoles means more game sales, yes. But most consoles out there are old ones.
Its going to slow sales of X1 and PS4, dulling the effect of the price difference.

Used game sales are fairly measurable cut into the publishers take, especially on new titles with short shelf lives. Publisher based DRM costs them money and risks pitfalls like the Sim-City disaster. A lack of security slows sales of add-ons and micro transactions.

If Microsoft takes responsibility for all those things, and handles them successfully, its more money in the publishers pockets. More profit creates more interest in taking advantage of things like Kinect or cloud computing.

You end up with a scenario like Apple.   Yes the system costs more to own and operate, but the eco system is stocked more regularly because the stockers get paid more generously.  This keeps a strong customer base over the years.
 
2013-06-14 11:38:58 AM

way south: AdamK: i think that assumes 3rd parties aren't desperate for more revenue, if given that the hardware is pretty same across both platforms but one has more uptake and therefore more customers to generate revenue - then sony has the advantage over any DRM microsoft might have, on top of the reality xbone might generate less revenue than 360

i agree that PC is the clear beneficiary in all of this, both machines are x86 so porting to PC will become even more commonplace than it already is, Valve also figured out DRM that everybody was okay with years ago, and with a new generation of hardware already coming for PC there's a chance consoles will be just "gap fillers" before they even hit their 2nd year on the market


More consoles means more game sales, yes. But most consoles out there are old ones.
Its going to slow sales of X1 and PS4, dulling the effect of the price difference.

Used game sales are fairly measurable cut into the publishers take, especially on new titles with short shelf lives. Publisher based DRM costs them money and risks pitfalls like the Sim-City disaster. A lack of security slows sales of add-ons and micro transactions.

If Microsoft takes responsibility for all those things, and handles them successfully, its more money in the publishers pockets. More profit creates more interest in taking advantage of things like Kinect or cloud computing.

You end up with a scenario like Apple.   Yes the system costs more to own and operate, but the eco system is stocked more regularly because the stockers get paid more generously.  This keeps a strong customer base over the years.


that's taking the publisher viewpoint at face value, used games' effect on profit is fairly minimal because most revenue from new-game purchases is generated in the first month, the reason game discounting has become so common and popular over the last 3 years so soon after a game is released is because there's no revenue to be generated for most games months after release if high prices are retained - as such deep discounts are the only thing driving sales post-mortem and said customers then bring dollars for DLC which is an added benefit

in effect profit off of a game purchase is moot after the game has been on shelves for more than a few months - publishers are realizing they're better off nickle and diming people down the road than trying to get every cent out of the initial game purchase - the popularity of cheaper titles and f2p is also forcing this change in behavior

really the idea of making all of your money off of the initial purchase of a AAA game is mostly dead at this point - partially thanks to game development not getting any cheaper or efficient and publishers being too risk-averse to develop mid-tier projects, the idea that microsoft has "figured it all out" is idealistic at best - making it more difficult to get used games isn't going to fix the issue of games having to be discounted - this is already a reality in PC land where digital is king and used games haven't existed in almost a decade

the fact that this "one system to fix everything" is being rejected by consumers means it's a moot point - DRM isn't worth anything if it brings in less revenue because the entire point if DRM is to preserve revenue and profit, so if Sony garners a bigger userbase then Microsoft's strategy is a bad one
 
2013-06-14 04:14:04 PM
Sony and Nintendo came out on top, Steam is waiting in the wings, Apple planning their attack, Microsoft being the only Keanu on the bench.
 
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