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(The Epoch Times)   3d printed guns won't be very popular, it is easier to just get one on the black market. Just in case, here is a bill to outlaw 3d printed guns   (theepochtimes.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, San Diego Police Department, National Firearms Act, Defense Distributed, Title I, Gun Control Act, 3D printers, homicide detectives  
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711 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Jun 2013 at 10:53 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-13 10:53:48 AM  
Terrorist attacks account for <.0001% of all deaths in the U.S. annually - Must suspend/remove civil liberties to ensure government has the power to prevent them.
Assault weapons account for <.001% of all deaths in the U.S. annually - Must Ban Them.
3D printed guns have never killed anyone and are inordinately more difficult to obtain than an illegal handgun - Must Super-Ban Them

Jeez, no one tell them flamethrowers are still legal...
 
2013-06-13 10:54:38 AM  
And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal
 
2013-06-13 10:55:11 AM  
Because as we all know, once a law is enacted, everything covered by the law disappears from the internet forever.

I guarantee that the politicians freaking out about this ensured that more people downloaded those blueprints than they otherwise would have. It's the Streisand Effect in action.
 
2013-06-13 10:57:50 AM  

Aarontology: Because as we all know, once a law is enacted, everything covered by the law disappears from the internet forever.

I guarantee that the politicians freaking out about this ensured that more people downloaded those blueprints than they otherwise would have. It's the Streisand Effect in action.


I downloaded them despite the fact that:

1. I don't have a 3D printer
2. I have real guns

Some things you just gotta do to show the futility of regulating it.
 
2013-06-13 10:59:06 AM  

MichiganFTL: Terrorist attacks account for <.0001% of all deaths in the U.S. annually - Must suspend/remove civil liberties to ensure government has the power to prevent them.
Assault weapons account for <.001% of all deaths in the U.S. annually - Must Ban Them.
3D printed guns have never killed anyone and are inordinately more difficult to obtain than an illegal handgun - Must Super-Ban Them

Jeez, no one tell them flamethrowers are still legal...


Any rise in availability of 3D guns will put American gun manufacturers out of business. This is a bill protecting our jobs. Why do you hate America?
 
2013-06-13 10:59:14 AM  
Apart from lowering the amount of smug hipsters showing off their 3d printed guns on YouTube this is pretty useless.
 
2013-06-13 10:59:49 AM  

unlikely: And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal


And electricity.
 
2013-06-13 11:00:22 AM  
3d printed guns won't be very popular, it is easier to just get one on the black open market

FTFY
 
2013-06-13 11:03:34 AM  
NRA - the gun manufacturers lobby - won't stand in the way of this bill.  They'll be outlawed for "safety" reasons.
 
2013-06-13 11:05:03 AM  
I wish someone would make cancer illegal.
 
2013-06-13 11:08:29 AM  

JolobinSmokin: I wish someone would make cancer illegal.


Why would congress ban itself?
 
2013-06-13 11:10:28 AM  
Considering how long it takes to print parts with a 3D printer, this might be the closest we get to universal waiting periods.
 
2013-06-13 11:12:57 AM  

lilbjorn: NRA - the gun manufacturers lobby - won't stand in the way of this bill.  They'll be outlawed for "safety" reasons.


Actually, the NSSF is the gun manufacturers lobby.  The NRA is a users group.

You can tell based upon their respective membership:  NSSF has 7000 members, all of whom are manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, commercial gun ranges, or commercial media outlets.

The NRA has roughly 5 million individual members.  Some of them are, obviously, in the firearms business, but the majority aren't.
 
2013-06-13 11:12:59 AM  

dittybopper: Some things you just gotta do to show the futility of regulating it.


I know a few people who did the same thing. They just wanted the blueprints for shiats and giggles.
 
2013-06-13 11:14:02 AM  
What about guns assembled from the skeletons of mutated genetically engineered fish and amphibians?  That's right there is always an eXistenZ loophole.
 
2013-06-13 11:16:41 AM  
I had been informed by a legal expert here on Fark that the 3D printer files for firearms are themselves a violation of the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 and that mere possession of those files constitutes a violation of federal law.
 
2013-06-13 11:17:29 AM  
But it is still totally legal to build a firearm with a CNC machine or metal working tools as long as you do not sell or transfer it to someone.

Why spend thousands on a 3d printer when you can make a shotgun with 2 sections of pipe and a nail?
 
2013-06-13 11:19:49 AM  

Dimensio: I had been informed by a legal expert here on Fark that the 3D printer files for firearms are themselves a violation of the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 and that mere possession of those files constitutes a violation of federal law.


Not really.  I could use the files with an SLS machine.
 
2013-06-13 11:22:04 AM  

JolobinSmokin: I wish someone would make cancer illegal.


If cancer becomes criminal, only criminals will get cancer.  It seems smarter to legalize, regulate, and tax it.
 
2013-06-13 11:23:35 AM  
If 3-D printed guns are made illegal, only 3-D printed criminals will have them.  And the only thing that will stop a 3-D printed bad guy with a gun is a 3-D printed good guy with a gun.  So you'll get my 3-D printed gun when you pry it from my cold, dead, 3-D printed hands.
 
2013-06-13 11:28:04 AM  

Saiga410: Dimensio: I had been informed by a legal expert here on Fark that the 3D printer files for firearms are themselves a violation of the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 and that mere possession of those files constitutes a violation of federal law.

Not really.  I could use the files with an SLS machine.


Are you a Fark legal expert?
 
2013-06-13 11:34:40 AM  

Vodka Zombie: unlikely: And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal

And electricity.


And water.

Has anyone alerted insurance companies of this!?  All of those actuaries are just being wasted.
 
2013-06-13 11:35:11 AM  
farking idiots. This is exactly what I was worried about people doing. First it was the file, which the authorities tried to control (TOTALLY FORGETTING about the last 15 years of misguided attempts to stifle FILE SHARING). That, in accordance with tradition, exploded into a nuthouse of people spreading it around like HPV, in essence, doing the opposite of what was supposed to happen.

Now we're doing this, huh? Hey, we've only tried stuff like this for decades, with very little success (see War On Drugs, Prohibition), but *this* time will be different!

/it's not different, at all

//is it, Steve?
 
2013-06-13 11:37:29 AM  

Dimensio: Saiga410: Dimensio: I had been informed by a legal expert here on Fark that the 3D printer files for firearms are themselves a violation of the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 and that mere possession of those files constitutes a violation of federal law.

Not really.  I could use the files with an SLS machine.

Are you a Fark legal expert?


No.  If  I remember the undetectable firearm act was that it was a kneejerk reaction to the glock and it forbade guns that were undetectable by metal detectors.  If the only material that can be used in RP (I hate the term 3d printing) was composites then the govt could make an arguement but there are a few types of RP that create full metalic objects.
 
2013-06-13 11:42:26 AM  
Prepare your buttcream.

Also - it was ok when we did it for cloning, because Jesus, but not for guns, because... Jesus?
 
2013-06-13 11:46:28 AM  

unlikely: And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal


This phrase is becoming very handy for letting me know who amongst us knows jack shiat about logical fallacies.
 
2013-06-13 11:48:47 AM  

jars.traptone: farking idiots. This is exactly what I was worried about people doing. First it was the file, which the authorities tried to control (TOTALLY FORGETTING about the last 15 years of misguided attempts to stifle FILE SHARING). That, in accordance with tradition, exploded into a nuthouse of people spreading it around like HPV, in essence, doing the opposite of what was supposed to happen.

Now we're doing this, huh? Hey, we've only tried stuff like this for decades, with very little success (see War On Drugs, Prohibition), but *this* time will be different!

/it's not different, at all

//is it, Steve?


It's already cached on proxy servers all over the globe in torrent sites like furk.net where the US has ZERO control.

That file will be around forever.  They need to just forget about getting that genie back in the bottle.
 
2013-06-13 11:49:04 AM  
Did subby read the article? 3-D printed guns are not being outlawed anywhere (yet).

This is a bill to regulate 3-D printed guns in New York City, but why let the facts get in the way of a Trolling headline
 
2013-06-13 11:49:31 AM  
Aren't there already laws that regulate the manufacture of firearms?
 
2013-06-13 11:54:37 AM  

justtray: Prepare your buttcream.

Also - it was ok when we did it for cloning, because Jesus, but not for guns, because... Jesus?


Wat
 
2013-06-13 12:00:42 PM  

nunyadang: Did subby read the article? 3-D printed guns are not being outlawed anywhere (yet).

This is a bill to regulate 3-D printed guns in New York City, but why let the facts get in the way of a Trolling headline


I am shocked that New York is looking to regulate a rapidly prototyped gun just like every other hand made gun, in New York. How can we let this shock and outrage stand?

// I was told there was no black market in guns... where do THEY come from?
 
2013-06-13 12:03:20 PM  

Gosling: unlikely: And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal

This phrase is becoming very handy for letting me know who amongst us knows jack shiat about logical fallacies.


Alcohol doesn't have much of a purpose other than getting intoxicated, and drunkenness-related accidents and crimes have killed more people than guns ever have.

Even more interestingly, booze isn't a constitutional right. I think the gun grabbers would have better luck in the temperance movement.
 
2013-06-13 12:04:55 PM  

Frank N Stein: justtray: Prepare your buttcream.

Also - it was ok when we did it for cloning, because Jesus, but not for guns, because... Jesus?

Wat


Wow, I was actually wrong upon researching this, I stand corrected. Human cloning was tried to get banned in the US 4 times, but never happened. Interesting.
 
2013-06-13 12:07:56 PM  

TsukasaK: Gosling: unlikely: And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal

This phrase is becoming very handy for letting me know who amongst us knows jack shiat about logical fallacies.

Alcohol doesn't have much of a purpose other than getting intoxicated, and drunkenness-related accidents and crimes have killed more people than guns ever have.

Even more interestingly, booze isn't a constitutional right. I think the gun grabbers would have better luck in the temperance movement.


None of those things are  designed to kill.  Therefore we really shouldn't be concerned about the number of deaths they cause.
 
2013-06-13 12:12:50 PM  

GanjSmokr: None of those things are designed to kill


And none of the RP guns that I know of were designed to kill.
 
2013-06-13 12:13:36 PM  
I just got a bump of curiosity...

What's the working definition of a gun? If I built some electromagnetic widget that slings slugs at 1100 fps is it a gun? Would the proton packs the Ghostbusters used be considered firearms? Do you think I could get language through the legislature banning items projecting objects at speeds of 3x10^6 m/s and thus get light banned?
 
2013-06-13 12:18:02 PM  

Gosling: unlikely: And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal

This phrase is becoming very handy for letting me know who amongst us knows jack shiat about logical fallacies.


I guess you need some kind of tip-off for that.
OTOH, people with busted sarcasm meters usually just tell you.
 
2013-06-13 12:18:24 PM  

wildcardjack: I just got a bump of curiosity...

What's the working definition of a gun? If I built some electromagnetic widget that slings slugs at 1100 fps is it a gun? Would the proton packs the Ghostbusters used be considered firearms? Do you think I could get language through the legislature banning items projecting objects at speeds of 3x10^6 m/s and thus get light banned?


#1 google result for {New York Law firearm defintion}

S 265.00 Definitions.
As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following terms shall mean and include: 1. "Machine-gun" means a weapon of any description, irrespective of size, by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, from which a number of shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged from a magazine with one continuous pull of the trigger and includes a sub-machine gun. 2. "Firearm silencer" means any instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance for causing the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearms to be silent, or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearms. 3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e) an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique firearm.
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm#p265.00
 
2013-06-13 12:20:28 PM  

GanjSmokr: TsukasaK: Gosling: unlikely: And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal

This phrase is becoming very handy for letting me know who amongst us knows jack shiat about logical fallacies.

Alcohol doesn't have much of a purpose other than getting intoxicated, and drunkenness-related accidents and crimes have killed more people than guns ever have.

Even more interestingly, booze isn't a constitutional right. I think the gun grabbers would have better luck in the temperance movement.

None of those things are  designed to kill.  Therefore we really shouldn't be concerned about the number of deaths they cause.


Semantically, nothing is designed to kill, a gun is just designed to safely propel mass in a controlled direction. I'd probably assume 99.9% of those masses propelled, aka bullets, do not kill anything. Explosives aren't designed to kill, they're designed to produce a chemical reaction which causes overpressure and rapidly expanding force, useful in demolition, excavation and many other non-violent uses. Just because something DOES kill, doesn't mean that that's what it's designed for. Explosives, cars, alcohol, guns... they all still require a human to make a choice.

You seem to be stating that guns make it 'easier' to kill, not that they're 'designed' to kill.
 
2013-06-13 12:21:38 PM  
Wouldn't the "Black Market" just get a 3D printer, thus forgoing the troublesome acquisition process?
 
2013-06-13 12:28:28 PM  

MichiganFTL: You seem to be stating that guns make it 'easier' to kill, not that they're 'designed' to kill.


Well that's not what I've been told here on FARK.  I've been repeatedly told that the designed and  only purpose of guns is to kill things.  Mainly people.  Lots of them with multiple 50 round extended clip magazines bullet sheaths with the shoulder things that go up.
 
2013-06-13 12:32:59 PM  

dittybopper: lilbjorn: NRA - the gun manufacturers lobby - won't stand in the way of this bill.  They'll be outlawed for "safety" reasons.

Actually, the NSSF is the gun manufacturers lobby.  The NRA is a users group.

You can tell based upon their respective membership:  NSSF has 7000 members, all of whom are manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, commercial gun ranges, or commercial media outlets.

The NRA has roughly 5 million individual members.  Some of them are, obviously, in the firearms business, but the majority aren't.


www.swubtactical.com
 
2013-06-13 12:33:00 PM  

GanjSmokr: TsukasaK: Gosling: unlikely: And yet cars and alcohol are completely legal

This phrase is becoming very handy for letting me know who amongst us knows jack shiat about logical fallacies.

Alcohol doesn't have much of a purpose other than getting intoxicated, and drunkenness-related accidents and crimes have killed more people than guns ever have.

Even more interestingly, booze isn't a constitutional right. I think the gun grabbers would have better luck in the temperance movement.

None of those things are  designed to kill.  Therefore we really shouldn't be concerned about the number of deaths they cause.


If you think "guns are meant to kill", think about this:

Yearly, more people are killed by an object not meant to kill (cars) than an object meant to kill (guns). It seems to me that we're controlling the risks of the latter pretty well
 
2013-06-13 12:38:22 PM  
People who claim "we don't need to regulate this, 3D printers are expensive and rare" aren't seeing the bigger picture.

When is the last time you've seen a new groundbreaking technology remain expensive and rare for all of eternity? That's right. It doesn't happen. Within the next decade, 3D printing is going to explode (metaphorically). The tech is going to get cheaper. It's going to get faster. It's going to get better. That's what technology does. It's going to rattle the very foundation of our economy as now people will be able to simply print out things instead of going to stores to buy them. Eventually, 3D printers are going to be able to print themselves.


So that argument is ridiculous. We know they're coming. We know they're going to be everywhere. And having devices literally everywhere that can print guns for literally anyone that can't be detected by metal detectors and can't be traced? That's just not smart. Anyone who thinks that's a good idea is living in some kind of a dream world.
 
2013-06-13 12:44:43 PM  

MithrandirBooga: People who claim "we don't need to regulate this, 3D printers are expensive and rare" aren't seeing the bigger picture.

When is the last time you've seen a new groundbreaking technology remain expensive and rare for all of eternity? That's right. It doesn't happen. Within the next decade, 3D printing is going to explode (metaphorically). The tech is going to get cheaper. It's going to get faster. It's going to get better. That's what technology does. It's going to rattle the very foundation of our economy as now people will be able to simply print out things instead of going to stores to buy them. Eventually, 3D printers are going to be able to print themselves.


So that argument is ridiculous. We know they're coming. We know they're going to be everywhere. And having devices literally everywhere that can print guns for literally anyone that can't be detected by metal detectors and can't be traced? That's just not smart. Anyone who thinks that's a good idea is living in some kind of a dream world.


Also, so in your theory, we're also going to be printing bullets/shell cases/primers off 3d printers right? There are a TON of firearms already out there which are 99% plastic except for a firing pin and a few springs (FN 5.7, a personal favorite is all plastic except the barrel a spring and a firing pin). So unless you are planning on pistol whipping someone with your plastic gun, it's going to be detectable by a metal detector.

I bet you also think the Glock 7 from Die Hard 2 is real right?
 
2013-06-13 12:46:02 PM  

MichiganFTL: Terrorist attacks account for <.0001% of all deaths in the U.S. annually - Must suspend/remove civil liberties to ensure government has the power to prevent them.
Assault weapons account for <.001% of all deaths in the U.S. annually - Must Ban Them.
3D printed guns have never killed anyone and are inordinately more difficult to obtain than an illegal handgun - Must Super-Ban Them

Jeez, no one tell them flamethrowers are still legal...


I wonder where the NRA, a gun and ammo manufacturers lobby group, stands on this?  Will they support peoples 2nd amendment rights to print their own, or do they stand with the industries profit margins?
 
2013-06-13 01:02:53 PM  

dittybopper: lilbjorn: NRA - the gun manufacturers lobby - won't stand in the way of this bill.  They'll be outlawed for "safety" reasons.

Actually, the NSSF is the gun manufacturers lobby.  The NRA is a users group.

You can tell based upon their respective membership:  NSSF has 7000 members, all of whom are manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, commercial gun ranges, or commercial media outlets.

The NRA has roughly 5 million individual members.  Some of them are, obviously, in the firearms business, but the majority aren't.


You don't understand. People in America never organize and act on their own; anything that happens is due to Big Business and out-of-control capitalism.
 
2013-06-13 01:06:29 PM  

MithrandirBooga: People who claim "we don't need to regulate this, 3D printers are expensive and rare" aren't seeing the bigger picture.

When is the last time you've seen a new groundbreaking technology remain expensive and rare for all of eternity? That's right. It doesn't happen. Within the next decade, 3D printing is going to explode (metaphorically). The tech is going to get cheaper. It's going to get faster. It's going to get better. That's what technology does. It's going to rattle the very foundation of our economy as now people will be able to simply print out things instead of going to stores to buy them. Eventually, 3D printers are going to be able to print themselves.


So that argument is ridiculous. We know they're coming. We know they're going to be everywhere. And having devices literally everywhere that can print guns for literally anyone that can't be detected by metal detectors and can't be traced? That's just not smart. Anyone who thinks that's a good idea is living in some kind of a dream world.


How do you intend to stop it? Simply saying, "Don't do this, or else,"  won't do the job, so you'll have to regulate 3D printers themselves to have even a prayer of enforcing a ban. Is that what you want to do?
 
2013-06-13 01:18:43 PM  

brap: What about guns assembled from the skeletons of mutated genetically engineered fish and amphibians?  That's right there is always an eXistenZ loophole.


I believe they keep that machine up on the Thirteenth Floor.

/Obscure?
//90s sci-fi FTW
 
2013-06-13 01:36:23 PM  

justtray: Human cloning was tried to get banned in the US 4 times, but never happened. Interesting.


Yup.
 
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