LasersHurt: Fail in Human Form: I'm not willing to hand over my entire life to the government simply because they tell me, "it's for my own good."They can potentially access data. Your life has changed in no way. But your "entire life" has been handed over to them?I don't think the rhetoric matches the rhubarb, is what I am saying. We need to learn more, and maybe calm the fart down a little.
Fail in Human Form: I'm not willing to hand over my entire life to the government simply because they tell me, "it's for my own good."
lilplatinum: LasersHurt: Remember, we're ultimately responsible for the makeup of our government.Since most people are functionally disenfranchised unless they live in a battleground district, that is not really all that true.
skozlaw: LasersHurt: You also have no more reason to believe that this has ever hurt any innocent person than you do that it hasThe probability is non-zero which is infinitely higher than what is required to offset any unproven benefit that's been claimed.We're working from two different ends on this. You seem to be of the opinion that this could potentially be justified. I see no possible way that could happen. The "evidence" as to what's already been done is inconsequential to me because my position is that it's impossible to justify complete secrecy in this matter. I have little interest in what happened at this point unless what happened was actually illegal and those involved could be prosecuted (which seems highly improbable thanks to PATRIOT). Instead, I'd prefer we worry about how it can either be adapted in the future so that it's not just completely secret government spying on its own citizens or, better yet, completely dismantled.
Fail in Human Form: LasersHurt: Fail in Human Form: I agree there's a lot of "what ifs". But we'll get to the bottom of it. There's a mountain of suits spinning up over this as we speak; I think it's a matter of time.I like your optimism, but not a chance. This program will never be stopped, I'd bet good money it'll be expanded over time, and all the government has to do with the lawsuits is claim state secrets and it's over.I dislike your pessimism. Fatalist attitudes keeps you from properly pushing for the truth to come out. Remember, we're ultimately responsible for the makeup of our government.To what avail? When this came out, remember congress VOTED for this according to the administration, many said they had never heard of this before. They then got a very short private meeting about it which lead to some saying the PATRIOT Act needed to be repealed after the meeting.
skozlaw: There is literally no reason but blind faith to believe any of that was used for the reasons they claim. Going strictly by the evidence, you have no more reason to believe they used those wiretaps to stop attacks than that they used them to steal people's homemade porn.
Pocket Ninja: You're being snarky, subby. Ha, ha, I get snarky. But to be serious for a moment, seriously, what you have to remember is that if there's a successful terrorist attack, that attack becomes an inspiration for other terrorists. Who then plan other attacks, and if they're successful those in turn become inspirations. So there's a ripple effect that ripples out like ripples from even a single event, see? So, realistically, once you factor in those and other extrapolatables, stopping even 1 attack is actually the equivalent to stopping ten, thirty, a hundred potential attacks. Hell, it could even be a thousand attacks if you really factor it out. Try to not be so cynical and maybe show some gratitude here; imagine if there had been 1000 terrorist attacks last year.
Fail in Human Form: How so?
Fail in Human Form: The potential for abuse far outweighs any benefit in using this method to prevent terrorists attacks.
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