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(C|Net)   NSA chief hints at ISP and email wiretapping. If you haven't curled up into a ball and renounced your religion because there is no god yet, now may be a good time   (news.cnet.com) divider line 386
    More: Interesting, ISP, NSA, Julian Sanchez, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, Patriot Act, Fort Meade, warrantless wiretapping, Internet Protocol  
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7354 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jun 2013 at 9:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-13 04:07:01 PM

trappedspirit: Bombs, ricin, drones, governtment overthrow, pressure cooker, false flag, OWS, anarchist, guns, treason, allah, bronies.

There, now this thread is monitored.

/you're welcome


drones, attack, supreme court boobies.
 
2013-06-13 04:10:55 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?


I can't speak for everyone of course, but I wasn't outraged then because I, perhaps foolishly, believed them when they said they were only collecting metadata and searching the metadata for patterns.  Then last week I find that they are actually collecting personally identifiable data that can easily reveal information about a person's home, work, friends, family, habits, group memberships, politics, and health.

There is a huge difference between collecting data and collecting metadata, a despite the repeated statements from government officials they are collecting data, not metadata.  Data is information about a person or device.  Metadata is information about the data that a person or device is looking for, without the information actually received as a result of the request for information.   Maybe some examples would make the difference clear.

Take Verizon for example we know that the collect source phone #, destination phone#, physical location, and duration of call.  Just looking at this, even if we didn't know anything about about Verizon or the devices it connected to, we could discover the following:
*    Verizon is some involved in connecting phones ( the source and destination #)
*    The phones are mobile (the physical location field is not fixed, it changes)
*    This connection is limited in some way (they care how long the connection lasts)

The NSA is collecting the actual data from each call made with this information they could easily determine:
*     Where you live (calls between 9pm and 6am are made from this location)
*     Where you work (calls made 8am to 4pm are made from this location)
*     your path to and from work (calls made 7-8am and 4-5pm along this path)
*     friends, family, coworkers (from numbers called and when they were made, the 1st call on Mothers day is mom, call made from the road at 8:10 am monday is your boss, Call at 2:15 am Saturday is your ex)
*     personal habits, (calls on friday and saturday nights are made from a bar)
etc

Now there is legitimate metadata from cell phones that could have been useful.  When a cell phone is turned on it sends out a signal searching for the nearest tower.  The fact that the cell phone is searching for a tower is metadata, and could possibly be useful.  If for example, after analysis they determined that there were a group of 12 cell phones in New York that were only active from 3pm til 4pm every other Tuesday, that could indicate a cell of terrorists using burner phones for regularly scheduled communications.  They could then obtain a warrant to look into the matter further.

Similarly if they determine that someone is searching google for the terms "New York City", "Obama General Assembly visit", "Sarin Gas", "Bulk Chemistry Supplies", and "Ryder Truck Rental" someone should get a search warrant and find out who he is and what he is up to.
 
2013-06-13 04:14:22 PM

HK-MP5-SD: IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?

I can't speak for everyone of course, but I wasn't outraged then because I, perhaps foolishly, believed them when they said they were only collecting metadata and searching the metadata for patterns.  Then last week I find that they are actually collecting personally identifiable data that can easily reveal information about a person's home, work, friends, family, habits, group memberships, politics, and health.

There is a huge difference between collecting data and collecting metadata, a despite the repeated statements from government officials they are collecting data, not metadata.  Data is information about a person or device.  Metadata is information about the data that a person or device is looking for, without the information actually received as a result of the request for information.   Maybe some examples would make the difference clear.

Take Verizon for example we know that the collect source phone #, destination phone#, physical location, and duration of call.  Just looking at this, even if we didn't know anything about about Verizon or the devices it connected to, we could discover the following:
*    Verizon is some involved in connecting phones ( the source and destination #)
*    The phones are mobile (the physical location field is not fixed, it changes)
*    This connection is limited in some way (they care how long the connection lasts)

The NSA is collecting the actual data from each call made with this information they could easily determine:
*     Where you live (calls between 9pm and 6am are made from this location)
*     Where you work (calls made 8am to 4pm are made from this location)
*     your path to and from work (calls made 7-8am and 4-5pm along this path)
*     friends, family, coworker ...


So you're saying that the meta data is not the data itself but the metadata is so compete it creates a "negative" of the data?
 
2013-06-13 04:28:31 PM

rudemix: Before it is all said and done there will be government officials filing for work comp due to disabilities suffered while reading the thoughts and preferences of their fellow citizens on the intranets. I hope mine some how contribute to that.


Basically my take on this.

/Because we're not fixing this anytime soon, so I damn well hope they read all my emails.
//Specifically, the teen-girl fantasy porn my friend and I have been writing this summer.
///U totes jelly, bro
 
2013-06-13 04:34:56 PM

PsiChick: /Because we're not fixing this anytime soon, so I damn well hope they read all my emails.
//Specifically, the teen-girl fantasy porn my friend and I have been writing this summer.
///U totes jelly, bro


thecityfix.com
^ Your profile click meter
 
2013-06-13 04:37:48 PM

Point02GPA: Every once in a while a 50-60 yo undelivered letter/postcard appears. I wonder what the oldest undelivered email will contain?



Final-Recipient: XXX.XXX.XXXAction: failedStatus: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)Remote-MTA: dns; [000.00.000.000]Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 553-'sorry, this recipient is in my badrecipientto list (#5.7.1)' (delivery attempts: 0)
 
2013-06-13 04:37:49 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: /Because we're not fixing this anytime soon, so I damn well hope they read all my emails.
//Specifically, the teen-girl fantasy porn my friend and I have been writing this summer.
///U totes jelly, bro

[thecityfix.com image 306x229]
^ Your profile click meter

 ...Is at zero?
 
2013-06-13 04:39:29 PM

PsiChick: ...Is at zero?


It's rolling over.  Sheesh.
 
2013-06-13 04:41:17 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: ...Is at zero?

It's rolling over.  Sheesh.


You're trying to explain car stuff to a chick.
 
2013-06-13 04:46:11 PM

ReverendJynxed: You're trying to explain car stuff to a chick.


I didn't laugh at that.  Because it's not funny.

At all.
 
2013-06-13 04:51:15 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: ...Is at zero?

It's rolling over.  Sheesh.


Ah.

...I did not know they could do that.

ReverendJynxed: Skleenar: PsiChick: ...Is at zero?

It's rolling over.  Sheesh.

You're trying to explain car stuff to a chick.


If you drive so fast your spedometor does that, you're going to end up in a flaming wreck pretty soon. Just sayin'.

/And out here, we have basically the American version of the Autobahn, so I don't say that lightly
//But really. Beware of trees. Or pebbles. Or rain.
 
2013-06-13 05:01:42 PM

PsiChick: If you drive so fast your spedometor does that, you're going to end up in a flaming wreck pretty soon. Just sayin'.


The spedometer reads 0 mph.

Just sayin'.

But if you wanted to excerpt some of that writing project you're working on in this thread, I'm all eyes.
 
2013-06-13 05:02:27 PM
Oh, now I get it.

Look at the odometer.  Not the speedometer.
 
2013-06-13 05:07:04 PM

Skleenar: ^ Your profile click meter


Doubtfull. She is fat, stupid, and claims to be psychic.

PsiChick: If you drive so fast your spedometor does that, you're going to end up in a flaming wreck pretty soon. Just sayin'.


See ^ for proof of the stupid part. Even girls should know the difference between a spedometer and an odometer.

Skleenar: It's rolling over.


Although you should know better too. "Rolling over" means going from 999999.9 to 000000.0.
 
2013-06-13 05:08:04 PM
Gah *doubtful
 
2013-06-13 05:13:25 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: If you drive so fast your spedometor does that, you're going to end up in a flaming wreck pretty soon. Just sayin'.

The spedometer reads 0 mph.

Just sayin'.

But if you wanted to excerpt some of that writing project you're working on in this thread, I'm all eyes.


Ah. Okay, now I see it.

And no, you aren't, it's really pathetic. But hey, I spend my summer hanging out with a friend, it's fun.
 
2013-06-13 05:16:41 PM

umad: spedometer


Those short-bus specific?
 
2013-06-13 05:21:34 PM

ReverendJynxed: umad: spedometer

Those short-bus specific?


[sic]

I wrote it that way because they kept doing it.
 
2013-06-13 05:25:57 PM

umad: Although you should know better too. "Rolling over" means going from 999999.9 to 000000.0.


I thought it was close enough.  But point taken.
 
2013-06-13 05:26:12 PM

mrexcess: Skleenar
That article doesn't seem to say what you think it says. It says the Prism program has access to systems that allows them to obtain content data. It doesn't say that the Prism program is taking this data as a normal course of operations.

Dude... What? Do you actually work for the NSA? Or are just hoping to? What a bunch of dissembling bullshiat. "Access to systems that allow them to obtain content" but that doesn't somehow show that... They have access to content?!? Give me a break. You disputed initially that Prism had access to content, now you're moving the goalposts and saying that, well gee, of course it does, duh.

Yes, duh, of course it does. That's why what you claimed before was so egregious. Now quit trolling in the hopes of The Man letting you into the inner party.


Well of course they're methodically recording all content. But they would never look at it without a specific warrant!

Or something. The next shoe will be the disclosure that yes, they are routinely recording all domestic phone calls. But they would never look at that data!
 
2013-06-13 05:26:47 PM

mrexcess: DeathByGeekSquad
I know a lot of people distrust the NSA, but seriously, of all the agencies - they're the least political

Maybe the distrust has something to do with the way they lie to the public and even to Congress about what they do, without ever being held accountable? I mean, isn't that sort of deserving of distrust?

And as for their being a-political, how do we actually know that? It's not like the public gets to scrutinize their behavior in a way that would allow us to form an independent judgement. We're just supposed to Trust Them(tm), I guess? Even though they're known liars?


Go read The Secret Sentry, and get back to me.
 
2013-06-13 05:29:45 PM

umad: ReverendJynxed: umad: spedometer

Those short-bus specific?

[sic]

I wrote it that way because they kept doing it.


I know, I just thought you were the better person to ask because my only options were the chick and the humorless.

/0 - to potato
 
2013-06-13 05:32:07 PM

ReverendJynxed: humorless.


You must have missed my sarcastrophe.
 
2013-06-13 05:44:56 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: /Because we're not fixing this anytime soon, so I damn well hope they read all my emails.
//Specifically, the teen-girl fantasy porn my friend and I have been writing this summer.
///U totes jelly, bro

[thecityfix.com image 306x229]
^ Your profile click meter


Speedometer? More like a pedometer

howdidyoudoit.files.wordpress.com
/Surprised no one made that joke with Sandusky.  Maybe someone did, who knows
 
2013-06-13 05:46:58 PM

Skleenar: ReverendJynxed: humorless.

You must have missed my sarcastrophe.


With how the whole thing played out is it any wonder?

It's like the sarcasmometer was replaced with a spedometer.
 
2013-06-13 06:49:56 PM
On on 27 February 1933, the German Reichstag burned to the ground and was blamed on "communists" and a trial ensued.  The Nazi party capitalized upon this to pass the Enabling Act. The Enabling Act was a special law which gave the Chancellor the power to pass laws by decree without the involvement of the Reichstag.  Even a cursory glimpse at the events that followed will lend credence to the notion that circumventing the articles of your own government, and laying all wealth and power at the feet of a small block of people who are demanding it, isn't a useful solution to anything.  We're not watching the future, we're watching a rerun.
 
2013-06-13 07:53:34 PM

uber humper: Linux_Yes: They only do it to keep your Freedom loving asses Free.  and don't forget, you can always trust a Government Of, By, and For Big Business/Wealthy.


Cheers!


We cannot allow the government to have the power that it does, and we cannot allow the government to give the large corporations the money/power. The mega-corporations are the size that they are because of government help -- whether it by contracts, policy, or cash.

You got part of the answer in your handle. Open source is where it's at. Government can't influence open source, open source keeps the big companies out of the loop.


i don't know if Open Source can undo the monster grip that big business/wealthy have on our government.  humans will always be selfish and greedy.  we may be too far down that narrowing road to turn around.  no one said our way of life will last. things could be alot worse in 20 years. this might only be the beginning of a Monster State owned by Capital.
 
2013-06-13 07:57:16 PM
 
2013-06-14 12:21:22 AM

Linux_Yes: uber humper: Linux_Yes: They only do it to keep your Freedom loving asses Free.  and don't forget, you can always trust a Government Of, By, and For Big Business/Wealthy.


Cheers!


We cannot allow the government to have the power that it does, and we cannot allow the government to give the large corporations the money/power. The mega-corporations are the size that they are because of government help -- whether it by contracts, policy, or cash.

You got part of the answer in your handle. Open source is where it's at. Government can't influence open source, open source keeps the big companies out of the loop.

i don't know if Open Source can undo the monster grip that big business/wealthy have on our government.  humans will always be selfish and greedy.  we may be too far down that narrowing road to turn around.  no one said our way of life will last. things could be alot worse in 20 years. this might only be the beginning of a Monster State owned by Capital.


It looks like you're making a false dichotomy in that: the world is controlled by big government or controlled by big business. Big government and big business are opposite sides of the same coin.  The opposite of both is freedom. Stop allowing government to influence businesses, that's when imbalances in the market happen. And stop allowing business to influence government.

The top 1% having so much power is bad,  in a government controlled society even fewer people hold the power.  It's not money people are after -- it is power.  It's about the resources they control, not the resources they own.
 
2013-06-14 03:54:42 AM
This Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary.

Obama, 2007
 
2013-06-14 04:33:53 AM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: It's just metadata, so I don't see what the big deal is. I mean, my phone takes pictures with metadata embedded, and all it does is record the time the picture was taken, the exact location, the name of my phone, my name, and... Dear lord...


you are really tempting me to godwin this thread, dude...
 
2013-06-14 04:41:48 AM

SpdrJay: I think it's good that people are learning to joke about this situation that is already way out of their control.


I dont know, Russia used to be almost this bad, then Gorbachev came along.  Perhaps we need a our own Gorbachev.
 
2013-06-14 05:21:43 AM

ghostwind: you are really tempting me to godwin this thread, dude


It's not actually a law.  It was a witty remark based on a humorous observation.  I suppose it's nice to try and find some deep meaning and absolutes in tree house, pinkie swear rules, but it's all they are.
 
2013-06-14 06:10:13 AM
Can we at least, after a review of this thread, start packing up the FARK partisan hack trolls and quit pretending that the sock puppet on one hand is going to be a better choice than the one on the other hand?  That delusion's ass is not only hanging out, it needs some perfume.
 
2013-06-14 06:20:28 AM

I sound fat: SpdrJay: I think it's good that people are learning to joke about this situation that is already way out of their control.

I dont know, Russia used to be almost this bad, then Gorbachev came along.  Perhaps we need a our own Gorbachev.


We didn't win the cold war.  We traded shoes that fit edible food and jeans for their playbook.  Morning in America, my ass.
 
2013-06-14 06:11:20 PM

Thunderpipes: Insaniteus: I hate how all of these "revelations" just keep telling us stuff that we've known about for 10 freaking years.

It's just an attempt to pin this whole process on Obama, despite him actually getting the court and Congressional approval for every search (Which W refused to do).  There are seriously people right now that are furious and horrified that Obama is spying on Americans through the courts, who didn't give one rat's half-eaten ass about Bush doing all of that and more illegally and without the slightest shred of oversight.

I have a theory that nothing pisses off a Republican more than when Obama adopts a Republican policy (This, Health care mandate, Amnesty, TSA, Drone strikes, closed-door meetings, etc).

What did Bush do, Exactly?

Excuses for Obama the Messiah, imagine that.


tenpoundsofcheese: sendtodave: tenpoundsofcheese: sendtodave: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

Really?

The government  Democrats spying on it's own people is, like, totally cool?

FTFY.

You can't have a good nanny state and a nanny to take care of you if she doesn't know what trouble you are about to get in.

You know, I dislike you.  Severely.

No, I didn't know that.

But I can't fathom any reason people would defend this,or call for Snowden's head, other than for love of the (current) government.

Weird huh?  There are people so in love with the current government that no matter what they do, people defend it.
Next step is that people who criticize this will be called racists.


Why is that only the right wing tool brigade thinks there is some unquestioning fealty to gov't in general and O in particular by libs? Most libbys seem to have no problem biatching about the shortcomings of the administration. You are confusing your own total lack of ability to think critically about anything that even remotely resembles or represents your own closed minded, simplistic, trite, pathetic, myopic, hateful and frightened world view with what the rest of us do. Namely, supporting a general movement forward while quite openly being critical of misguided policies.

/Oh, and yes, you are a racist. Not b/c of this, but b/c all the other hateful crap you spew
//Now let me get back to praying with my Rosary Obama Beads
 
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