jake_lex: uber humper: Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content. Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd. (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).And this is what you will believe until the government tells you to believe differently?This kind of captures how I feel about this whole thing: if the program works as the NSA says it does, I don't have such a problem with it. And I can see how it would be useful and good in capturing terrorists. But how can we be sure that we are being told the truth of what this program is and does?
LarryDan43: Lexx: Isn't this just confirming what we long, long figured was the reality of the world, but never had to consciously confirm & acknowledge?To be honest, I'm less concerned about how the government uses my personal data in this day & age (admittedly, the communist witch-hunts of Joe McCarthy's era were bad) and much, much more concerned about my personal data being freely available to the corporate sector & my fellow man.We at GEICO have noticed your drive to work is much further than what you claimed on your policy. Also you speed through construction zones. We will be raising your premium.
unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?
IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?
Deneb81: Is this 'wiretapping' any more invasive than the data ISPs and email services ALREADY pull from your email?
Skleenar: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: And you don't think if 60 years ago the post office had logged every letter so that they could establish patterns of who was talking to "known Communists," that would have constituted a violation of privacy?Really, I'd be interested to hear your answerHow about establishing a pattern of who was embezzling or money laundering or working with the Mafia? I mean, why did you use an example of something that was not a crime, if other than to somehow imply that I am somehow in favor of using this data for political intimidation?Look, obviously this stuff can be abused. But just about any power the Government has can be abused. I don't think the mere fact that something can be abused is evidence that it IS being abused.Just for the record, I would be surprised if the NSA isn't taking liberties in what they collect and how they do it. I'm merely making the point that so far the revelations have been about metadata.I also believe that metadata collection could be abused, too. It's not some magic talisman that makes it all OK.
Pants full of macaroni!!: /this q&d pic is going to get quite a workout before the government [REDACTED BY [REDACTED]] me
mrexcess: Nina_Hartley's_AssSettle down, subby. Everyone knows you're looking at porn. Nobody cares....until you run for political office on a platform that threatens powerful interests, or lead a social change movement, or...
pedrop357: I've yet to be disappointed, and I can't see how a McCain/Palin or Romney/Ryan presidency would have been any different.
doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.
Point02GPA: Every once in a while a 50-60 yo undelivered letter/postcard appears. I wonder what the oldest undelivered email will contain?
Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: YixilTesiphon: A secret court is no better than no court.In what way is a court that has a denial rate of basically 0 better than no court? It lends an air of undeserved legality to the shame proceedings.
Skleenar: Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.
mrexcess: Deneb81: We'll see what the courts think of these programs. Maybe, if they have the balls to take a case.As for not giving things to other people of you want them to remain private, why doesn't that apply to postal mail? Oh, right, because when the nation was founded that service existed and so there was no way for legislators and courts to devise bizarre and bogus Fourth Amendment interpretations that denied privacy for that. They tried that trick with phones but eventually enough powerful people were hoist on their own petard that they even extended protections to telephone voice transmissions. Somehow, though, although a Skype call is functionally identical if not technically architected the same way, that doesn't count.It's time we, the people stopped passively accepting all the shenanigans and demanded that our rights be respected and protected, not grudgingly doled out after massive fights with the very people whose job it is to protect them.
Katolu: Screw it. Everyone with a phone, or email, anything that can be tapped needs to use all of the keywords that triggers the NSA to investigate. Hundreds of millions of instances of those words showing up daily and the NSA wouldn't know where to begin or have the manpower to investigate.
Thunderpipes: What did Bush do, Exactly?
YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?
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