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(C|Net)   NSA chief hints at ISP and email wiretapping. If you haven't curled up into a ball and renounced your religion because there is no god yet, now may be a good time   (news.cnet.com) divider line 386
    More: Interesting, ISP, NSA, Julian Sanchez, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, Patriot Act, Fort Meade, warrantless wiretapping, Internet Protocol  
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7356 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jun 2013 at 9:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-13 08:10:24 AM
I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.
 
2013-06-13 08:17:58 AM
It's for the children, citizen, don't you care about all the children this will save?

/we know what's best for you
//you can trust us
 
2013-06-13 08:26:52 AM
It's just metadata, so I don't see what the big deal is. I mean, my phone takes pictures with metadata embedded, and all it does is record the time the picture was taken, the exact location, the name of my phone, my name, and... Dear lord...
 
2013-06-13 08:31:43 AM
You think they aren't already doing this?
 
2013-06-13 08:36:51 AM
Just assume the Feds see everything you do....then start masturbating furiously.

/business as usual then
 
2013-06-13 09:05:03 AM

Walker: Just assume the Feds see everything you do....then start masturbating furiously.

/business as usual then


art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-06-13 09:07:19 AM
I bet they're also watching you poop.  You better freak out.
 
2013-06-13 09:25:30 AM

James!: I bet they're also watching you poop.  You better freak out.


They'll freak out, I had Taco Hell last night.
 
2013-06-13 09:28:16 AM

basemetal: James!: I bet they're also watching you poop.  You better freak out.

They'll freak out, I had Taco Hell last night.


They were probably like... in your taco somehow.
 
2013-06-13 09:32:14 AM
img.photobucket.com

/this q&d pic is going to get quite a workout before the government [REDACTED BY NSA] me
 
2013-06-13 09:33:28 AM
I think it's good that people are learning to joke about this situation that is already way out of their control.
 
2013-06-13 09:34:28 AM
What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?
 
2013-06-13 09:35:12 AM
This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.
 
2013-06-13 09:35:33 AM

SpdrJay: I think it's good that people are learning to joke about this situation that is already way out of their control.


Joking about it is the only way we have of opening our mouths without screaming.
 
2013-06-13 09:35:41 AM
wait, so all my weblogs going to midget donkey porn are in that NSA datacenter?

seriously?

what a waste of space. rm -rf that directory.

all 14 Tb of it.
 
2013-06-13 09:36:23 AM
The existence of God is not negated by the fact that we have a tyrannical government. When Jesus walked the earth, Rome was pretty tyrannical.
 
2013-06-13 09:36:51 AM

doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.


I HOPE they are reading my Aunt's emails.

FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW Pratyer request! Please send this request to all your friends and family!

FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW  Missing girl have you seen this girl?

FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW: Obamacare is coming read these 5 tricks the Liberals don't want you to know!
 
2013-06-13 09:36:54 AM

doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.


They do. And have been for years.

That pretty data mining facility outside Salt Lake City is now where all the magic happens.
But dont worry, you're not saying bad things. Are you?
 
2013-06-13 09:37:59 AM

SpdrJay: I think it's good that people are learning to joke about this situation that is already way out of their control.


I use GMail, and I actually read the TOS when I signed up.

I never, ever, ever had anything remotely close to an "expectation of privacy" in regards to my email.
 
2013-06-13 09:38:26 AM
My employer already does, might as well add the government.

I LOVE MY JOB. IT'S THE GREATEST THING EVER. SO IS THE GOVERNMENT.... except the parts that my employer doesn't like.
 
2013-06-13 09:38:26 AM

netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.


The younger generation understands the logistics that would be required to read every message and figures the government focuses on known terrorists and their plots, not my text to my BFF Jill.
 
2013-06-13 09:39:00 AM
Let's all take pictures of our poop and email it to the NSA. They would love .... <carrier lost>
 
2013-06-13 09:39:03 AM

rooftop235: That pretty data mining facility


the architecture is pretty rad. i wish i worked there.
 
2013-06-13 09:39:18 AM
I have a question. Why the f*** is a military person in charge of this shait?
 
2013-06-13 09:39:19 AM
That's it.  I'm going back to handwritten postal mail.
 
2013-06-13 09:39:29 AM
When they see what I've been downloading to my iPad, they're gonna sh•t.
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-06-13 09:39:35 AM
Isn't this just confirming what we long, long figured was the reality of the world, but never had to consciously confirm & acknowledge?

To be honest, I'm less concerned about how the government uses my personal data in this day & age (admittedly, the communist witch-hunts of Joe McCarthy's era were bad) and much, much more concerned about my personal data being freely available to the corporate sector & my fellow man.
 
2013-06-13 09:39:39 AM
Now, at the end of every email, just sign it "Just joking".
 
2013-06-13 09:40:31 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

The younger generation understands the logistics that would be required to read every message and figures the government focuses on known terrorists and their plots, not my text to my BFF Jill.


It is my guess that they are so overwhelmed by all the data that they are incapable of doing much. It would be like a 13-year-old having 100,000 porno magazines.
 
2013-06-13 09:41:07 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

The younger generation understands the logistics that would be required to read every message and figures the government focuses on known terrorists and their plots, not my text to my BFF Jill.


That's probably a reasonable expectation ......

....  until the turrrrists start disguising their communications as texts to the BFF's.............

/prolly never happen......
 
2013-06-13 09:41:39 AM

doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.


I've just always assumed I'm such a unimportant little bug no one has bothered to notice me let alone step on me. If I'm wrong about the first how long till I get the second?
 
2013-06-13 09:42:11 AM
You people actually expected privacy when using electronic versions of postcards, telegrams & billboards? Duh!
 
2013-06-13 09:42:19 AM

s2s2s2: Now, at the end of every email, just sign it "Just joking".


or the opening like on the druggie sites:

SWIM:
said that extracting 2-3-methylcarbomol with 4-5-pyridinecetamol resulted in...
 
2013-06-13 09:42:55 AM
Where this road is leading us, the betrayal of Julia is inevitable.
 
2013-06-13 09:43:01 AM
Before it is all said and done there will be government officials filing for work comp due to disabilities suffered while reading the thoughts and preferences of their fellow citizens on the intranets. I hope mine some how contribute to that.
 
2013-06-13 09:43:49 AM

YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?


Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).
 
2013-06-13 09:43:49 AM
Make sure you put all your data on iCloud, Dropbox, Google Docs, et. al.  Think of the convenience!
 
2013-06-13 09:43:55 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

The younger generation understands the logistics that would be required to read every message and figures the government focuses on known terrorists and their plots, not my text to my BFF Jill.


Is this also why the younger generation texts in incomprehensible garbled code that no one born before the 90s can read without years of crayons up their nose?
 
2013-06-13 09:45:15 AM

Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).


You really believe they stop there?
 
2013-06-13 09:45:58 AM
Curled in a ball? Hah! Renouncing one's god should be done while standing defiantly, shaking your fist at the heavens!
 
2013-06-13 09:46:03 AM

neversubmit: doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.

I've just always assumed I'm such a unimportant little bug no one has bothered to notice me let alone step on me. If I'm wrong about the first how long till I get the second?


Do you know how spiders work? Every byte you've posted online has been scanned multiple times already, I'm sure. The code searches for certain pieces of data. All matches are aggregated and filtered.

You might be an insignificant nothing in your own head, but you might as well be a world leader having your emails published in the state newspaper if you write the kind of words they want for all the security that provides from data mining.
 
2013-06-13 09:47:51 AM
I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?
 
2013-06-13 09:48:11 AM
Looks like this guy's been reading all the V1agra and P3nis Enlargement spam I've been getting and sending off for the product.

And using it.

And applying twice as much as recommended.

asset2.cbsistatic.com
 
2013-06-13 09:48:19 AM
Is this 'wiretapping' any more invasive than the data ISPs and email services ALREADY pull from your email?
 
2013-06-13 09:48:31 AM

YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?


Convenience. As long as we aren't inconvenienced by government surveillance, we'll continue to bend over and take it like we don't mind it happening.
 
2013-06-13 09:49:15 AM

Deneb81: Is this 'wiretapping' any more invasive than the data ISPs and email services ALREADY pull from your email?


Google doesn't run Gitmo.

IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?


No, people should have been pissed about this for much longer.
 
2013-06-13 09:49:37 AM
There is no god yet?? When does It get here????
 
2013-06-13 09:49:57 AM

Skleenar: Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.


And you don't think if 60 years ago the post office had logged every letter so that they could establish patterns of who was talking to "known Communists," that would have constituted a violation of privacy?

Really, I'd be interested to hear your answer
 
2013-06-13 09:50:31 AM
So I'm guessing the regular /b/tard is more than concerned about recent events.
 
2013-06-13 09:50:34 AM
I have a treasure trove of things they are doing to watc
 
2013-06-13 09:50:34 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?


And this.

For real - THIS was more worrisome and is old news.

With direct access the government can pull ANYTHING out of the data, including content. With no paper trail.

As is, there's at least a FISA court record and a record of what was produced held privately by the company.
 
2013-06-13 09:52:09 AM

doglover: neversubmit: doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.

I've just always assumed I'm such a unimportant little bug no one has bothered to notice me let alone step on me. If I'm wrong about the first how long till I get the second?

Do you know how spiders work? Every byte you've posted online has been scanned multiple times already, I'm sure. The code searches for certain pieces of data. All matches are aggregated and filtered.

You might be an insignificant nothing in your own head, but you might as well be a world leader having your emails published in the state newspaper if you write the kind of words they want for all the security that provides from data mining.


Well it sounds like I'm still nothing. yay?
 
2013-06-13 09:52:24 AM
Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?
 
2013-06-13 09:52:45 AM

Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).



And this is what you will believe until the government tells you to believe differently?
 
2013-06-13 09:52:52 AM

Deneb81: As is, there's at least a FISA court record


A secret court is no better than no court.
 
2013-06-13 09:54:13 AM

unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?


Because we didn't have a Muslim Communist in the White House in the '90s.
 
2013-06-13 09:54:56 AM

YixilTesiphon: A secret court is no better than no court.


At least with leaked records now the ACLU now has standing for their suit that was thrown out for no standing

YixilTesiphon: No, people should have been pissed about this for much longer.


And I remember people here tossing this off as conspiracy theory when the leaked pics came out of these data rooms
 
2013-06-13 09:55:10 AM

YixilTesiphon: A secret court is no better than no court.


In what way is a court that has a denial rate of basically 0 better than no court? It lends an air of undeserved legality to the shame proceedings.
 
2013-06-13 09:55:36 AM
I'm embarrassed for the NSA.  I'm embarrassed for their intrusiveness, and I'm embarrassed that their careers amount to spending 90% of their time looking for a terrorist but finding out it's just a guy jerking off or a woman in her car texting or talking while driving.
 
2013-06-13 09:55:38 AM
Obama's nuclear family is the bomb.

/amidoinitrite?
 
2013-06-13 09:56:06 AM

DubtodaIll: There is no god yet?? When does It get here????


You have to paint the all-seeing eye on your forehead and chant deus ex machina.
 
2013-06-13 09:56:34 AM

AngryDragon: Make sure you put all your data on iCloud, Dropbox, Google Docs, et. al.  Think of the convenience!


Hope they like lolcats and sleepaid mp3s. 6 hours of rain sounds and a cat wearing a sombrero...
 
2013-06-13 09:57:30 AM

nekom: You think they aren't already doing this?


How does that make it ok?
 
2013-06-13 09:57:32 AM

uber humper: Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).


And this is what you will believe until the government tells you to believe differently?




This kind of captures how I feel about this whole thing: if the program works as the NSA says it does, I don't have such a problem with it. And I can see how it would be useful and good in capturing terrorists. But how can we be sure that we are being told the truth of what this program is and does?
 
2013-06-13 09:57:35 AM

YixilTesiphon: Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).

You really believe they stop there?


I think it is clear from my above statement that I leave the door open to possible abuses (as is nearly inevitable in any human system).  However, I think the issue is more that of bandwidth.  There is no way the government could possibly "read" in the usual sense of the word every single e-mail or other electronic communication sent by everyone using the internet.  They'd have to target the very small subset of interesting communications more effectively using some sort of automated target identification.  And, it seems that there is plenty of embeded information in metadata that would effectively allow this sort of analysis for targeting.

Now, to be clear, there are many ways in which this targeting could possibly be more invasive, ie automated real-time analysis of content, etc.  However, I would suspect that this would also have bandwidth limits and is probably reserved for higher-priority targets and/or less politically troubling targets (i.e. foreign entities).
 
2013-06-13 09:58:05 AM
Every once in a while a 50-60 yo undelivered letter/postcard appears. I wonder what the oldest undelivered email will contain?
 
2013-06-13 09:58:28 AM

mrlewish: I have a question. Why the f*** is a military person in charge of this shait?


Extra precautions. Military personnell are really, really bad at lying to superiors, and if they're caught lying, the UCMJ and normal laws both apply. especially for someone old enough to become a general at all, you can  more than double their jail time.

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Skleenar: Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

And you don't think if 60 years ago the post office had logged every letter so that they could establish patterns of who was talking to "known Communists," that would have constituted a violation of privacy?

Really, I'd be interested to hear your answer


It probably would have been, but a note to your metaphor: It's closer to UPS doing that already, and the government telling them to share the records they were already taking.
 
2013-06-13 09:58:28 AM
i.imgur.com

,,,And is apparently a big dork.
 
2013-06-13 09:59:34 AM

jake_lex: uber humper: Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).


And this is what you will believe until the government tells you to believe differently?

This kind of captures how I feel about this whole thing: if the program works as the NSA says it does, I don't have such a problem with it. And I can see how it would be useful and good in capturing terrorists. But how can we be sure that we are being told the truth of what this program is and does?


Well, that's the problem with secret programs.  You really can't.
 
2013-06-13 10:00:09 AM
Pretty soon there will be a fella standing on every street corner asking for your papers when you take Fido for a walk.
 
2013-06-13 10:00:21 AM

Skleenar: However, I think the issue is more that of bandwidth.  There is no way the government could possibly "read" in the usual sense of the word every single e-mail or other electronic communication sent by everyone using the internet.


Agreed. This isn't useful for finding patterns. It is only useful for doing away with inconvenient people by claiming to be omniscient.
 
2013-06-13 10:00:47 AM

Baby Face Fister: Pretty soon there will be a fella standing on every street corner asking for your papers when you take Fido for a walk.


They do if you live in Derby, Vermont.
 
2013-06-13 10:02:31 AM

YixilTesiphon: Deneb81: As is, there's at least a FISA court record

A secret court is no better than no court.


Worse, in fact, since a secret court lends the pretence of 'checks and balances' to the process. It's there to provide political cover for politicians, not to safeguard rights.
 
2013-06-13 10:02:58 AM
I hate how all of these "revelations" just keep telling us stuff that we've known about for 10 freaking years.

It's just an attempt to pin this whole process on Obama, despite him actually getting the court and Congressional approval for every search (Which W refused to do).  There are seriously people right now that are furious and horrified that Obama is spying on Americans through the courts, who didn't give one rat's half-eaten ass about Bush doing all of that and more illegally and without the slightest shred of oversight.

I have a theory that nothing pisses off a Republican more than when Obama adopts a Republican policy (This, Health care mandate, Amnesty, TSA, Drone strikes, closed-door meetings, etc).
 
2013-06-13 10:03:06 AM

jake_lex: uber humper: Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).


And this is what you will believe until the government tells you to believe differently?

This kind of captures how I feel about this whole thing: if the program works as the NSA says it does, I don't have such a problem with it. And I can see how it would be useful and good in capturing terrorists. But how can we be sure that we are being told the truth of what this program is and does?


You can't. I know someone in the NSA and asked him more or less that once. He replied by telling me it's part of working there. You just sometimes have to let the public have some misconceptions, often aided by Hollywood, because as infuriating as it sometimes is to be misunderstood, correcting them could often involve disclosing their exact capabilites and methods, which then makes them easy to avoid and therefore meaninglees. Oh, and is a crime.
 
2013-06-13 10:03:27 AM

YixilTesiphon: Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).

You really believe they stop there?


Nope- but I like to dream on occasion of a country without omnipotent inteligence organizations snooping over my shoulder as I browse backdoor grannies 3 on my Iphone or PC.
 
2013-06-13 10:05:05 AM

The Numbers: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Convenience. As long as we aren't inconvenienced by government surveillance, we'll continue to bend over and take it like we don't mind it happening.


Honestly? The difference is content - at least supposedly.

The info I've seen is who called who when, who said what publicly, and who sent mail to whom when.

That's no different than the mail. The government CAN track who you send mail to and how much - they're the one delivering it after all. And the address is on the outside. They can even search the mail for certain safety issues - explosives, drugs, dangerous chemicals, illegal imports, etc. as long as its non-invasive or they have a warrant.

So if the program is limited to similar metadata - who, when, how often - and not content it's very similar to what they do with the mail in the course of business.

In addition - you lose 4th amendment protections over things when you give them to someone else. Like UPS, Google, or Bank of America. Ironically USPS can't get into your mail without a warrant - because they're the government and 4th amendment bound. UPS and FedEx? Not as tightly restricted. Even if they then hand it over to the government.
 
2013-06-13 10:05:11 AM
Good luck sifting through my voluminous elderly porn.
 
2013-06-13 10:05:14 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: And you don't think if 60 years ago the post office had logged every letter so that they could establish patterns of who was talking to "known Communists," that would have constituted a violation of privacy?

Really, I'd be interested to hear your answer


How about establishing a pattern of who was embezzling or money laundering or working with the Mafia?  I mean, why did you use an example of something that was not a crime, if other than to somehow imply that I am somehow in favor of using this data for political intimidation?

Look, obviously this stuff can be abused.  But just about any power the Government has can be abused.  I don't think the mere fact that something can be abused is evidence that it IS being abused.

Just for the record, I would be surprised if the NSA isn't taking liberties in what they collect and how they do it.  I'm merely making the point that so far the revelations have been about metadata.

I also believe that metadata collection could be abused, too.  It's not some magic talisman that makes it all OK.
 
2013-06-13 10:05:59 AM

YixilTesiphon: Agreed. This isn't useful for finding patterns. It is only useful for doing away with inconvenient people by claiming to be omniscient.


I don't believe that this is true.
 
2013-06-13 10:06:11 AM
If Obama does it, we can rationalize it!
 
2013-06-13 10:07:05 AM

Insaniteus: I hate how all of these "revelations" just keep telling us stuff that we've known about for 10 freaking years.

It's just an attempt to pin this whole process on Obama, despite him actually getting the court and Congressional approval for every search (Which W refused to do).  There are seriously people right now that are furious and horrified that Obama is spying on Americans through the courts, who didn't give one rat's half-eaten ass about Bush doing all of that and more illegally and without the slightest shred of oversight.

I have a theory that nothing pisses off a Republican more than when Obama adopts a Republican policy (This, Health care mandate, Amnesty, TSA, Drone strikes, closed-door meetings, etc).


What did Bush do, Exactly?

Excuses for Obama the Messiah, imagine that.
 
2013-06-13 10:07:35 AM
dstanley [TotalFark]


Obama's nuclear family is the bomb.

/amidoinitrite?


Congrats! You just went Maincore.
 
2013-06-13 10:07:58 AM
What the hell kind of comments are these?

"Dude I don't even privacy!"

"I privacy way less than you! You dirty unpure pleb!"

"Privacy is for old farts I have a photoblog for my dumps."

...honestly, what the hell kind of idiotic, short-sighted, conformist thinking is this? I don't give a shiat if you don't value privacy, that's fine. But in a free society the decision to have or forgo individual privacy is left to the individual, not the state. This sorry state is not what the Fourth Amendment envisaged, and empowering the agents of the status quo with such enormous power to abuse us by allowing this sorry state to become the order of the day will virtually guarantee that the next Martin Luther King never arises in our culture.
 
2013-06-13 10:08:03 AM
I wonder if there's a "Holy-shiat-Check-This-Out-Privacy-Invasion-Awesomeness" file compiled from all over the country that the NSA breaks out annually at the Office Christmas party.
 
2013-06-13 10:08:33 AM

Insaniteus: I hate how all of these "revelations" just keep telling us stuff that we've known about for 10 freaking years.

It's just an attempt to pin this whole process on Obama, despite him actually getting the court and Congressional approval for every search (Which W refused to do).  There are seriously people right now that are furious and horrified that Obama is spying on Americans through the courts, who didn't give one rat's half-eaten ass about Bush doing all of that and more illegally and without the slightest shred of oversight.

I have a theory that nothing pisses off a Republican more than when Obama adopts a Republican policy (This, Health care mandate, Amnesty, TSA, Drone strikes, closed-door meetings, etc).


But all of those things were awesome and necessary up until 2008, when Bush won the war on terrorism by lame ducking tarp, dropping the mic and leaving stage.
 
2013-06-13 10:10:08 AM
Settle down, subby. Everyone knows you're looking at porn. Nobody cares.
 
2013-06-13 10:10:20 AM

neongoats: But all of those things were awesome and necessary up until 2008, when Bush won the war on terrorism by lame ducking tarp, dropping the mic and leaving stage.


Oh please, many of us are exactly as upset about this stuff as we were in 2007. Bush Did It isn't an excuse.
 
2013-06-13 10:10:22 AM
I am Jack's total lack of surprise.

Dont worry comrades, if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear.  Let's recycle that conservative mantra from the last administration shall we?

/what?  Sauce for the goose
//is not suitable for the Gander?
 
2013-06-13 10:10:25 AM
ITT: Republicans believing that Liberals are perfectly ok with being domestically spied on, simply because Fartbama is the president.
 
2013-06-13 10:10:41 AM
You know I always thought those wireless signals I see when I'm trying to steal a signal like "FBI Surveillance Van" and "NSA Listening Center" were just jokes.
 
2013-06-13 10:11:08 AM

Lexx: Isn't this just confirming what we long, long figured was the reality of the world, but never had to consciously confirm & acknowledge?

To be honest, I'm less concerned about how the government uses my personal data in this day & age (admittedly, the communist witch-hunts of Joe McCarthy's era were bad) and much, much more concerned about my personal data being freely available to the corporate sector & my fellow man.


We at GEICO have noticed your drive to work is much further than what you claimed on your policy. Also you speed through construction zones. We will be raising your premium.
 
2013-06-13 10:11:34 AM
Americans are a bunch of farking goldfish.  Does nobody remember the AT&T/NSA partnership exposed in 2006?  And the lawsuit was just dismissed two years ago thanks to that retroactive immunity grant congress passed in 2011.  It's not like that deal was ancient history or hadn't been in the news recently.

I thought this kind of thing was common knowledge.
 
2013-06-13 10:12:27 AM
I, for one, welcome our new NSA overlords.

I love them a lot.

Is this thing on?
 
2013-06-13 10:13:18 AM

DubtodaIll: You know I always thought those wireless signals I see when I'm trying to steal a signal like "FBI Surveillance Van" and "NSA Listening Center" were just jokes.


That's great... off to troll the neighbors.
 
2013-06-13 10:13:26 AM

Pants full of macaroni!!: unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?

Because we didn't have a Muslim Communist in the White House in the '90s.


Who knew it in the 90s?? I didn't get Fox News until early 2000 so there was nothing for me to trust Bank then.
 
2013-06-13 10:13:44 AM
Nope. My religion teaches that humans suck. So I'm still solid.
 
2013-06-13 10:13:57 AM
I worked on IT projects with the Feds for years, and it was always understood that my email etc. was open to scrutiny, so I got used to it, and acquired 'good habits.'  But now, I'm suspicious of the "chip" that was implanted in the pound puppy I adopted, last Summer.  Hmmm....

/Guess I'll get used to that, too
 
2013-06-13 10:14:10 AM

mrexcess: What the hell kind of comments are these?

"Dude I don't even privacy!"

"I privacy way less than you! You dirty unpure pleb!"

"Privacy is for old farts I have a photoblog for my dumps."

...honestly, what the hell kind of idiotic, short-sighted, conformist thinking is this? I don't give a shiat if you don't value privacy, that's fine. But in a free society the decision to have or forgo individual privacy is left to the individual, not the state. This sorry state is not what the Fourth Amendment envisaged, and empowering the agents of the status quo with such enormous power to abuse us by allowing this sorry state to become the order of the day will virtually guarantee that the next Martin Luther King never arises in our culture.


The Supreme Court settled issues as to whether an individual has 4th amendment rights over information given to or recorded by a third party. They do not. This has been settled for a half century.

Your bank records are not yours - they are the bank's. You have no 4th amendment 'right to privacy' claim over the bank's property.

Same for Google. And Verizon.

If you make a call or send an email on someone else's service, the business records of that service is not yours and you have no 4th amendment right over it.

If you don't want other people looking at your stuff - DON'T GIVE IT TO OTHER PEOPLE.

I get the Internet make that hard or impossible - I'm sorry. But the 4th and 5th amendment doesn't and hasn't covered that ever.
 
2013-06-13 10:14:19 AM

nekom: You think they aren't already doing this?


Its like Groundhog Day. I remember the same concerns after 9/11.

I guess this issue reappears every 12 years like cicadas
 
2013-06-13 10:15:01 AM

jake_lex: uber humper: Skleenar: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

They are careful to differentiate between the metadata and the content.  Whether or not this nicety is actually being observed in practice is probably important, but so far these revelations seem to indicate that what is being collected is metadata, which is then likely being used to identify content of interest which is then FISA'd.  (And, I would guess, probably automatically, without human intervention).


And this is what you will believe until the government tells you to believe differently?

This kind of captures how I feel about this whole thing: if the program works as the NSA says it does, I don't have such a problem with it. And I can see how it would be useful and good in capturing terrorists. But how can we be sure that we are being told the truth of what this program is and does?


If the program were being run by computer engineers who I would expect to have demonstrable knowledge of what is and is not metadata, rather than simply being designed by some engineers and managed by NSA, and they actually had some kind of public liability I might assume they're playing by their own rules.  Unfortunately, neither of these are true. As with any self-righteous over-zealous organization goes, as soon as they find something interesting the line between meta-data and data suddenly disappears and they're reading your e-mail.

On the bright side, the amount of anti-government e-mails that have been sent around since Obama took office now feel more like karmic payback to big brother than blissful ignorance.  Good luck shifting through the shiat Americans send out these days.
 
TWX
2013-06-13 10:15:20 AM

LarryDan43: Lexx: Isn't this just confirming what we long, long figured was the reality of the world, but never had to consciously confirm & acknowledge?

To be honest, I'm less concerned about how the government uses my personal data in this day & age (admittedly, the communist witch-hunts of Joe McCarthy's era were bad) and much, much more concerned about my personal data being freely available to the corporate sector & my fellow man.

We at GEICO have noticed your drive to work is much further than what you claimed on your policy. Also you speed through construction zones. We will be raising your premium.


And that in part is why I'm glad that my vehicles aren't OBD-II compliant...

/why does it cost $27.50 to go through the OBD-II emissions test where they just hook up to the computer,
//but $20 to put the vehicle on the emissions dyno, hook up the hoses, and do a particulates count?
 
2013-06-13 10:16:00 AM
How about this. If all they can do is tell us that this multi billion dollar endeavor MIGHT HAVE prevented ONE bombing in NYC. And it means that all of our communications needs to be shifted and stored and analyzed etc etc

Then there is no argument that it is a HUGE WASTE OF MONEY. So regardless of right or wrong it is a massive expense that hasn't shown itself to be beneficial to the budget and has a huge negative effect on the privacy and rights of the very people it is supposed to be protecting.

The only reason we feel obligated to spend this kind of money is a direct result of our foreign policy. We need to start having real discussions about where we as americans see ourselves in the world and our defense budgets.
 
2013-06-13 10:16:39 AM
"For months, Washington has been accusing China of cyberespionage, but it turns out that the biggest threat to the pursuit of individual freedom and privacy in the US is the unbridled power of the government," Li Haidong, a researcher of American studies at China Foreign Affairs University, told the newspaper.
 
2013-06-13 10:18:40 AM
Nina_Hartley's_Ass
Settle down, subby. Everyone knows you're looking at porn. Nobody cares.

...until you run for political office on a platform that threatens powerful interests, or lead a social change movement, or...
 
2013-06-13 10:19:43 AM

unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?


I had no idea of the extent to which the government was into the records and data of normal citizens, you know, with no connection whatsoever to any sort of terrorist activity.

If you knew in the '90s you should have made people aware. I put this on you.
 
2013-06-13 10:22:08 AM
If they have the ability to actually find out the true identity of senders of emails can we, just maybe, use this to shut down all the people trying to sell me Vi@gr@ and other spam.  If the NSA cannot do this one reach around, they should stop.
 
2013-06-13 10:22:11 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?


We were.

I remember people telling me that the Democract presidential candidate was against that sort of thing, even after he voted for the bill to exempt the phone companies from liability.  I knew he was a scumbag like the then current president, and I knew he would drop any pretenses about caring for civil liberties if he was elected.

I've yet to be disappointed, and I can't see how a McCain/Palin or Romney/Ryan presidency would have been any different.
 
2013-06-13 10:26:03 AM

Deneb81: Is this 'wiretapping' any more invasive than the data ISPs and email services ALREADY pull from your email?


This is a bullshiat train of argument.  I can choose not to deal with google, but I can't choose not to have the government secretly compelling every provider to hand over data that might involve me.

Google can't imprison me, 'drone' me, etc.

How do feel about embracing and expanding  Prima Nocta?  I mean since a woman already has sex with her boyfriend, is it really any different to demand that she have sex with cop, Senator, soldier?  What's the difference, right?
 
2013-06-13 10:28:05 AM
i think it's fair to say they don't give a shiat about pr0n

what do they care about? terrorism, obviously. child pr0n? drug lords?

presumably they're unlikely to tell us, because then people would know and take steps etc etc
 
2013-06-13 10:28:22 AM
I just did a GIS. How is there not a "Ceiling Obama is watching you masturbate" pic yet? How is that even possible that not one person has put that out there?
 
2013-06-13 10:28:29 AM

Skleenar: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: And you don't think if 60 years ago the post office had logged every letter so that they could establish patterns of who was talking to "known Communists," that would have constituted a violation of privacy?

Really, I'd be interested to hear your answer

How about establishing a pattern of who was embezzling or money laundering or working with the Mafia?  I mean, why did you use an example of something that was not a crime, if other than to somehow imply that I am somehow in favor of using this data for political intimidation?

Look, obviously this stuff can be abused.  But just about any power the Government has can be abused.  I don't think the mere fact that something can be abused is evidence that it IS being abused.

Just for the record, I would be surprised if the NSA isn't taking liberties in what they collect and how they do it.  I'm merely making the point that so far the revelations have been about metadata.

I also believe that metadata collection could be abused, too.  It's not some magic talisman that makes it all OK.


That's right. If they collect all the meta data from everyone, then you are only one sorting/data entry error away from someone who is in regular contact with terrorist/criminal organisations. Hello no-fly list and goodbye credit.
 
2013-06-13 10:28:39 AM

Pants full of macaroni!!: /this q&d pic is going to get quite a workout before the government [REDACTED BY [REDACTED]] me


Fixed that for [REDACTED].
 
2013-06-13 10:30:02 AM
Can't you all see how overblown this is? All of this anger against a program that's saving American lives, just because you're concerned over privacy? Everyone one of you ungrateful sops bellowing about how the NSA is violating the 4th Amendment should be shaking our hand for all of the terrorist attacks we have saved you from using all of this metadata. Would you rather be blown up by suicide bomber?

I can assure you that we're only looking at the information we need to protect you. Sure, along the way we may inadvertently see some unrelated info, like Skleenar's Natalie Portman fanpage or Nekom's love for erotic bonsai. Just because we know that Pants full of macaroni!! once ate 27 Encharitos and threw up on a cop doesn't mean we're violating the constitution. And of course, all of that intel on Nana's Vibrator's "experimental" phase in college and neversubmit's closely guarded Elvis collector's plate collection was key in foiling 9/11 2 (which would have been far worse than regular 9/11, trust me.)

This is very important work that you just wouldn't understand. Even though we stumbled upon  Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich's frankly frightening browser history or unlikely's  LiveJournal of Scooby Doo/Species crossover fanfiction, not to mention Drew's collection of vegetarian chili recipes (the white vegan chili is to DIE for), you have nothing to worry about. Your privacy is our biggest concern.

I promise.
 
2013-06-13 10:30:08 AM

mrexcess: Nina_Hartley's_Ass
Settle down, subby. Everyone knows you're looking at porn. Nobody cares.

...until you run for political office on a platform that threatens powerful interests, or lead a social change movement, or...


Don't be silly. Politicians don't look at porn.
 
2013-06-13 10:30:29 AM
You can also thank companies like Cisco, for specifically building hardware and software designed for governments(ours and others) to spy and control the internet.(obviously, it's just a tangent on what their hardware and software already does).

You know, all those stories about X nation locking down their internet, and Y nation spying and z nation blacking out twitter, etc. The big router co.'s made mad bank developing and creating the hardware and software that allows the NSA to do this kind of thing. Big news, for several years about it. And it all went to /dev/null as far as people caring.
 
2013-06-13 10:31:05 AM
Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-Calif.) said lawmakers learned "significantly more" about the spy programs at the National Security Agency (NSA) during a briefing on Tuesday with counterterrorism officials.
"What we learned in there," Sanchez said, "is significantly more than what is out in the media today."

"I think it's just broader than most people even realize, and I think that's, in one way, what astounded most of us, too," Sanchez said of the briefing.


http://thehill.com/video/house/305047-dem-rep-lawmakers-learned-sign if icantly-more-about-surveillance-programs-in-nsa-briefing
 
2013-06-13 10:31:11 AM

pedrop357: I've yet to be disappointed, and I can't see how a McCain/Palin or Romney/Ryan presidency would have been any different.


Well with the former we would have had some great years at SNL and the latter would have made sure you grandma would be eating catfood
 
2013-06-13 10:31:32 AM

doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.


Yup.

It's like sending a postcard through snail mail.  Anyone that handles it along the way can read it.
 
2013-06-13 10:31:42 AM
Don't give up your religion...just belong to the correct one!
 
2013-06-13 10:32:25 AM
Deneb81: We'll see what the courts think of these programs. Maybe, if they have the balls to take a case.

As for not giving things to other people of you want them to remain private, why doesn't that apply to postal mail? Oh, right, because when the nation was founded that service existed and so there was no way for legislators and courts to devise bizarre and bogus Fourth Amendment interpretations that denied privacy for that. They tried that trick with phones but eventually enough powerful people were hoist on their own petard that they even extended protections to telephone voice transmissions. Somehow, though, although a Skype call is functionally identical if not technically architected the same way, that doesn't count.

It's time we, the people stopped passively accepting all the shenanigans and demanded that our rights be respected and protected, not grudgingly doled out after massive fights with the very people whose job it is to protect them.
 
2013-06-13 10:32:46 AM
Since they're probably reading this too, I'll just say the NSA has fart-breath.
 
2013-06-13 10:33:06 AM
I for one was quite outraged back during the Clinton/Bush era when Carnivore was all the rage in snooping scandals.  But people thought I should put on a tinfoil hat b/c I didn't like the idea of the government being able to pull anything they wanted off the internet.  Now that it's a scandal, it's kind of vindicating and I'm relieved that there's a tiny national dialogue, but really, my reaction is more like "Oh, sure, now we're unhappy with it?"
 
2013-06-13 10:33:23 AM

Point02GPA: Every once in a while a 50-60 yo undelivered letter/postcard appears. I wonder what the oldest undelivered email will contain?


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-06-13 10:38:28 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: YixilTesiphon: A secret court is no better than no court.

In what way is a court that has a denial rate of basically 0 better than no court? It lends an air of undeserved legality to the shame proceedings.


While this might not make you feel better, there is a good reason.  It has nothing to do with protecting you - it has to do with protecting the people in charge, and the people who do the data collection.

How does it protect them?  The guys up top get to say there were multiple people who signed off that the target was "legitimate" and that the reasons for considering such a target was not "because I feel like it" or "I want dirt for a campaign ad".  This protects the people doing the collection as well - there was a process followed and someone up above said "You have a good reason".

The only part that really isn't sufficiently transparent is validating the rules used to give a thumbs up or thumbs down.  In theory there is congressional oversight - you saw how fast the ranking members were saying "Yes, we knew, nothing to see here".  In practice...  we can't really be sure since the records aren't open to public scrutiny.  And they aren't open for good reasons.

So we get some poor schlub in a top intelligence position basically being put in a situation where he's required to lie, and then he'll be called out on it.  He is supposed to keep our capabilities "secret" from the badguys.  And we all know that how "secret" something is relates to the inverse square of the number of people who know it.  There's several thousand people in the US that were involved in constructing and deploying the monitoring capabilities.  There are probably another 50,000 who can figure out how to do this if they were motivated even a little.  So he gets away with not looking like a fool until some savant below him who doesn't understand what the hell is really going on starts screaming "He's a fool!  The emperor has no clothes!".  As numerous people have been saying - this hasn't been a secret.

Now let us hope that congress is smart enough to recognize that the sound and fury coming from the Internet amplifier needs to be squelched and ignored.  Doing this in an open "visible to all" manner is not viable - suspicion would be conviction.  "We think so and so might be a terrorist" and ITG-asshat goes and harasses said subject of investigation.  That would be a violation of someone's pursuit of happiness.  And killing the secret court isn't a solution either - we want the NSA doing sigint and having that chance of finding the group that puts a dirty bomb in Chicago.  Just because some get through (Boston) is not a good reason to stop - it's a reason to figure out why we were sleeping again (If the FSB is saying "Watch this guy" some alarm should have gone off somewhere).  And we want some trail on what was done - getting rid of the secret court would just eliminate the oversight, not the actions.  That's not a good idea either.

So everyone put on your big girl panties and grow up a bit.  You can't "trust no one".  If you want something kept private - take steps to keep in private.  But recognize this - the Internet is a public place.  Just because nobody is in the room with you while you surf doesn't mean you are not in public.  Be happy it doesn't have the same expected behavior patterns that say going to a Southern Baptist church or even your local public park has.  But just like we don't want zero police presence on the highways, we also do not want zero watchers of what is happening on the 'Net.
 
2013-06-13 10:39:00 AM

unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?


It was a big deal back then, too.  You just weren't paying attention.
 
2013-06-13 10:39:04 AM
Screw it. Everyone with a phone, or email, anything that can be tapped needs to use all of the keywords that triggers the NSA to investigate. Hundreds of millions of instances of those words showing up daily and the NSA wouldn't know where to begin or have the manpower to investigate.
 
2013-06-13 10:40:02 AM
"I don't want to make a mistake" and reveal too much, Alexander said,

Yeah it sucks when people learn information you want to keep private.
 
2013-06-13 10:41:13 AM
The Feds are listening to my phone calls:
"The warranty on your vehicle is about to lapse."
"My vehicle is from the 1980s, and I bought it two years ago."
"Oh, our program can't help you."
"I know."
 
2013-06-13 10:41:33 AM

Skleenar: Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.


Well, not to take the bait, but how does that enable them to stop or disrupt attacks?
 
2013-06-13 10:42:07 AM

mrexcess: Deneb81: We'll see what the courts think of these programs. Maybe, if they have the balls to take a case.

As for not giving things to other people of you want them to remain private, why doesn't that apply to postal mail? Oh, right, because when the nation was founded that service existed and so there was no way for legislators and courts to devise bizarre and bogus Fourth Amendment interpretations that denied privacy for that. They tried that trick with phones but eventually enough powerful people were hoist on their own petard that they even extended protections to telephone voice transmissions. Somehow, though, although a Skype call is functionally identical if not technically architected the same way, that doesn't count.

It's time we, the people stopped passively accepting all the shenanigans and demanded that our rights be respected and protected, not grudgingly doled out after massive fights with the very people whose job it is to protect them.


I suspect that unless those demands come hand in hand with large sums of campaign contributions and kickbacks, they're going to be met with smiles, nods, and not an ounce of change.
 
2013-06-13 10:42:21 AM
What everyone knew anyway right? Google was saying the other day we don't give the gov backdoor access. Well no kidding they just grab everything before it gets to you or as it leaves you. Now we all give the gov backdoor access, and they don't even spit on it.
 
2013-06-13 10:43:03 AM
A secret interpretation of the Patriot Act

A secret interpretation of the Patriot Act

A secret interpretation of the Patriot Act

A secret interpretation of the Patriot Act
 
2013-06-13 10:43:28 AM
It's kind of nice that this shiat (which has been going on since 9/11) is getting press now, during a democratic administration, because then maybe some folks on the right will start seeing this as a problem.

On the other hand, a decent number of folks on the left don't see it as a huge deal, precisely because we have a dem president.  It's sad, really, how tribal our politics have become - particularly where our two major political parties (for all their differences) are centrist in practice, whose ideology is less important than the campaign donors and special interests they are beholden to.
 
2013-06-13 10:43:28 AM
Not to sound paranoid (since clearly I am not, since I was right...) but I had always assumed my phone/e-mails/txts/etc. was never secure and could be monitored at any time.

This is why I always told people never to say anything illegal or admit to doing anything illegal on devices or the internet.

/and people thought I was being overly paranoid... Mmmmhmm
 
2013-06-13 10:45:03 AM

Katolu: Screw it. Everyone with a phone, or email, anything that can be tapped needs to use all of the keywords that triggers the NSA to investigate. Hundreds of millions of instances of those words showing up daily and the NSA wouldn't know where to begin or have the manpower to investigate.


This. We need a fw:fw:fw:fw:fw: email with the list of word triggers in it, get that email to your average Rushbo fan and every granny and neocon uncle this side of the Pacific will be triggering it.
 
2013-06-13 10:45:38 AM
Nina_Hartley's_Ass
Don't be silly. Politicians don't look at porn.

Sure. And political activists don't have mistresses. And environmental lawyers don't have tax problems. And investigative journalists don't always travel down the same long, dark, unpopulated stretch of road at almost exactly 10:59 PM each evening...
 
2013-06-13 10:45:59 AM
s23.postimg.org
tinypic.com
www.politifake.org
 
2013-06-13 10:46:26 AM

Thunderpipes: What did Bush do, Exactly?


Well, for one, the revelation was made that the NSA was spying domestically, which before Bush was putatively not done (at least not without a warrant) and that Bush was circumventing the FISA court to avoid getting warrants for the spying he was doing.

A lot of this program was ex-post-facto legalized, and voila, the system and program that Obama has inherited is, supposedly, now legal.
 
2013-06-13 10:46:32 AM
NSA admitted today that it has been tapping that.

It blamed the problem on horny Farkers who work in the secret covert site known only by its code name, "Your Mother's Basement" (YMB).

It says that the secret spying was not authorized personally by Obama and that is is not his fault, but nobody but fiberals and Demoncrats believe this.
 
2013-06-13 10:46:54 AM
I'm reminded of Joseph Conrad's "The Secret Agent"
 
2013-06-13 10:47:35 AM
I'm not concerned. After all the government is so poorly run, that it couldn't find it's own backside with a map. How's it going to find me?

/Where my Neocons at?
//Hold you rights in the air! Waive them like you just don't care!
 
2013-06-13 10:48:17 AM
Thunderpipes:What did Bush do, Exactly?

A sh*tload of blow and whatever he was told.  Heil Prescott.
 
ows
2013-06-13 10:48:23 AM
Obama:

"I think we've reached a good balance here."

translation: shut up and deal with it.
 
2013-06-13 10:48:53 AM
I am going to forward all my spam to them... you know for safety.
 
2013-06-13 10:50:05 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?


The people who cared about it and biatched about it back then were dismissed as paranoid freaks.
 
2013-06-13 10:50:44 AM

unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?


This is kind of a Delta Green thing:  Back in the 90s we were all worried about secret conspiracies about how black helicopters were watching you and how someone might be reading your mail.  Maybe tapping your phone.  The fear was that secret and shadowy forces were conspiring to figure out your shiat.  Maybe your shiat was crazy religion, or drugs, or maybe just porn, but the currents were moving.

Now the horror is that all that stuff, and a good deal more, have gone totally legit.  They are operating out in the open.  At least with the old conspiracy model there was the hope that if someone shone a light on their perfidy, it would be blown apart.  Now, it's like pointing out the Starbucks on the corner.  It is just part of the landscape, and it isn't going anywhere.

/Choose another night at the opera
//Choose a 9mm retirement plan
///Choose Delta Green
 
ows
2013-06-13 10:50:49 AM
can I still google myself?
 
2013-06-13 10:51:29 AM

YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?


We live in public!   Or some bullshiat like that,

"If I'm going to use my telescreen, I have to assume that Big Brother is watching me.   No biggie, really."
 
2013-06-13 10:51:50 AM
When the book; The Rise and Fall of the Fourth Reich comes out in 30 years, you can point to excerpts and tell your grandkids "I was there".  And that's about it.
 
2013-06-13 10:51:53 AM

ronaprhys: unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?

It was a big deal back then, too.  You just weren't paying attention.


Was it a big deal back then? It took recent leaks from a government contractor to expose the extent of the government's reach into our personal lives. The ACLU is now suing the government over these programs. If they knew back in the '90s wouldn't they have sued then, or during the Bush administration?

For some reason, people refuse to acknowledge that much of this information is new to most Americans. Maybe what they're doing now has been done for years but there is new information coming out. If we're going to deal with it and define government's limits people are going to stop being so defensive when it comes to the current president.
 
2013-06-13 10:52:13 AM

Agent 84: Skleenar's Natalie Portman fanpage


Wow.  1267 hits in the last half hour.  Thanks!

/I love how when I try to make a point about accuracy, suddenly I am a apologist for the police state.  Whatever.
 
2013-06-13 10:52:54 AM
"Why would you care, unless you have something to hide?"

It's weird how everyone is fine with saying this about "terrorists" and "criminals" (who are unknown and typically aren't given that label until they committed a crime/terrorism or were caught), but those same people get completely offended when theirprivacy is invaded, because  they are innocent.

Kind of like how gun owners all assume they are a "responsible, law abiding" gun owner, so any laws regulating what they do with their guns is inherently wrong.

/the point is, bad public policy is bad - whether it's demolishing civil liberties in the interest of "fighting terrorism," or blindly opposing any reasonable gun regulations because they affect "criminals" as well as "law abiding" gun owners.
 
2013-06-13 10:53:19 AM

netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.


Really?

The government spying on it's own people is, like, totally cool?
 
2013-06-13 10:53:55 AM

sendtodave: it's


its

/dammitsomuch
 
2013-06-13 10:54:02 AM

sendtodave: YixilTesiphon: What is the difference between this and the government reading all of your mail? It's magically different because it's on the internet?

We live in public!   Or some bullshiat like that,

"If I'm going to use my telescreen, I have to assume that Big Brother is watching me.   No biggie, really."


Sounds like new xbox time. Don't ever roll a joint in your living room, MS will snitch you.
 
2013-06-13 10:54:58 AM
Frankentots
I suspect that unless those demands come hand in hand with large sums of campaign contributions and kickbacks, they're going to be met with smiles, nods, and not an ounce of change.

If that's true, then our democratic republic is running in "limp mode" and about to peter out completely unless massive retooling takes place. It's all the more reason we should be outraged at, and fearful of, awarding more power than absolutely necessary to the current set of officials who "represent" us.
 
2013-06-13 10:55:12 AM

Cletus C.: Was it a big deal back then? It took recent leaks from a government contractor to expose the extent of the government's reach into our personal lives. The ACLU is now suing the government over these programs. If they knew back in the '90s wouldn't they have sued then, or during the Bush administration?


It was a big deal to pretty much everyone I knew.  FWIW.
 
2013-06-13 10:55:20 AM
Good luck NSA

i86.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-13 10:55:30 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Well, not to take the bait, but how does that enable them to stop or disrupt attacks?


The theory is that using metadata, you can establish patterns that are useful in identifying suspicious persons or activity.

http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-fi nd -paul-revere/

And I believe that it is useful for this sort of thing.

However, it would also be useful in finding just about any sort of pattern you find interesting, not just ones that are related to national security (i.e. politcal leanings, affairs, etc.).

It's not without the potential for abuse.  What it is, however, is a streamlined way to find the data you really want without having to collect all of it and read through it.
 
2013-06-13 10:56:01 AM

ows: can I still google myself?


You dirty boy, you.
 
2013-06-13 10:56:05 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: The existence of God is not negated by the fact that we have a tyrannical government. When Jesus walked the earth, Rome was pretty tyrannical.


the government is your God.  Or wants to be.
 
2013-06-13 10:56:08 AM

Cletus C.: ronaprhys: unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?

It was a big deal back then, too.  You just weren't paying attention.

Was it a big deal back then? It took recent leaks from a government contractor to expose the extent of the government's reach into our personal lives. The ACLU is now suing the government over these programs. If they knew back in the '90s wouldn't they have sued then, or during the Bush administration?

For some reason, people refuse to acknowledge that much of this information is new to most Americans. Maybe what they're doing now has been done for years but there is new information coming out. If we're going to deal with it and define government's limits people are going to stop being so defensive when it comes to the current president.


Two points to that:
 - There was lots of furor of Bush's activities.  Mostly it was shouted down because terrorism and like such as.  The Patriot Act got lots and lots of (well-deserved) bad press.
- This current stuff seems to be an expansion of what was going on under Bush, which is much more intrusive and actually worse, which means it's getting ever more bad press.
 
2013-06-13 10:56:11 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Skleenar: Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

Well, not to take the bait, but how does that enable them to stop or disrupt attacks?


I imagine you take a peek at who Muhammed-Al-Muhammed-Al-Muhammed Ben Bezir talks to, analyze the com patterns, and then you've got a likely group. get warrants based on this analysis and do ACTUAL wiretapping...and prevent bombing. Still starts with a real target though, and metadata won't help you get that...
 
2013-06-13 10:56:42 AM

oldfarthenry: You people actually expected privacy when using electronic versions of postcards, telegrams & billboards? Duh!


Now, THAT's the spirit!

Now - show us you mean it; post your email address and password, so we can all check out your postcards, telgrams and billboards. That's a good American...
 
2013-06-13 10:57:23 AM

neversubmit: doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.

I've just always assumed I'm such a unimportant little bug no one has bothered to notice me let alone step on me. If I'm wrong about the first how long till I get the second?


Ah.  So you're Chinese.

Security through obscurity.
 
2013-06-13 10:58:38 AM
from the article from yesterday:

The deeper problem with the nothing-to-hide argument is that it myopically views privacy as a form of secrecy. In contrast, understanding privacy as a plurality of related issues demonstrates that the disclosure of bad things is just one among many difficulties caused by government security measures. To return to my discussion of literary metaphors, the problems are not just Orwellian but Kafkaesque. Government information-gathering programs are problematic even if no information that people want to hide is uncovered. In The Trial, the problem is not inhibited behavior but rather a suffocating powerlessness and vulnerability created by the court system's use of personal data and its denial to the protagonist of any knowledge of or participation in the process. The harms are bureaucratic ones-indifference, error, abuse, frustration, and lack of transparency and accountability.

One such harm, for example, which I call aggregation, emerges from the fusion of small bits of seemingly innocuous data. When combined, the information becomes much more telling. By joining pieces of information we might not take pains to guard, the government can glean information about us that we might indeed wish to conceal. For example, suppose you bought a book about cancer. This purchase isn't very revealing on its own, for it indicates just an interest in the disease. Suppose you bought a wig. The purchase of a wig, by itself, could be for a number of reasons. But combine those two pieces of information, and now the inference can be made that you have cancer and are undergoing chemotherapy. That might be a fact you wouldn't mind sharing, but you'd certainly want to have the choice.

Yet another problem with government gathering and use of personal data is distortion. For example, suppose government officials learn that a person has bought a number of books on how to manufacture methamphetamine. That information makes them suspect that he's building a meth lab. What is missing from the records is the full story: The person is writing a novel about a character who makes meth. When he bought the books, he didn't consider how suspicious the purchase might appear to government officials, and his records didn't reveal the reason for the purchases. Should he have to worry about government scrutiny of all his purchases and actions? Should he have to be concerned that he'll wind up on a suspicious-persons list? Even if he isn't doing anything wrong, he may want to keep his records away from government officials who might make faulty inferences from them. He might not want to have to worry about how everything he does will be perceived by officials nervously monitoring for criminal activity. He might not want to have a computer flag him as suspicious because he has an unusual pattern of behavior.

"My life's an open book," people might say. "I've got nothing to hide." But now the government has large dossiers of everyone's activities, interests, reading habits, finances, and health. What if the government leaks the information to the public? What if the government mistakenly determines that based on your pattern of activities, you're likely to engage in a criminal act? What if it denies you the right to fly? What if the government thinks your financial transactions look odd-even if you've done nothing wrong-and freezes your accounts? What if the government doesn't protect your information with adequate security, and an identity thief obtains it and uses it to defraud you? Even if you have nothing to hide, the government can cause you a lot of harm.

"But the government doesn't want to hurt me," some might argue. In many cases, that's true, but the government can also harm people inadvertently, due to errors or carelessness.
 
2013-06-13 10:58:40 AM

netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.


This lol
 
2013-06-13 10:59:12 AM

Skleenar: Agent 84: Skleenar's Natalie Portman fanpage

Wow.  1267 hits in the last half hour.  Thanks!

/I love how when I try to make a point about accuracy, suddenly I am a apologist for the police state.  Whatever.


Hey! My plates kept 9/11 from being worse. I don't believe Agent 84 was being serious. Elvis pfft how old do you think I am?
 
2013-06-13 10:59:24 AM

Slappajo: the government is your God.  Or wants to be.


Close.

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-06-13 10:59:37 AM

Skleenar: Agent 84: Skleenar's Natalie Portman fanpage

Wow.  1267 hits in the last half hour.  Thanks!

/I love how when I try to make a point about accuracy, suddenly I am a apologist for the police state.  Whatever.


Do you think the government's surveillance activities should go any further than what they've stated?
 
2013-06-13 10:59:39 AM
So the question is:

What shall we do about it?

-TOR?
-Selenography?
-PGP?
 
2013-06-13 10:59:43 AM
This isn't a judgement statement as to whether or not I think the level of surveillance is appropriate, but from a practical standpoint, if any data collection is going to occur I would rather it be a lot.  At some point, you become anonymous again due to the sheer amount of data. You have to be a whole lot of standard deviations away from the mean before you are going to be the least bit noticeable.  Does Google "know" everything there possibly is to know about me?  Probably, but if I stand out over child molesters, would be terrorists and Subby's porn searches, I probably have it coming to me.
 
2013-06-13 10:59:46 AM

ronaprhys: unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?

It was a big deal back then, too.  You just weren't paying attention.


It was enough of a big deal back then that most of us started using PGP on our e-mails. But in the naughties everyone who thought it was a problem was helping the tourrists or something. But NOW it's a problem.

Ah etherpeek, how simple and limited you were.
 
2013-06-13 11:00:48 AM
He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither
 
2013-06-13 11:01:10 AM

tbhouston: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

This lol


It seem that it's the other way around.  The younger generation are the ones who care about this.  The older are 'meh'.
 
2013-06-13 11:01:13 AM

sendtodave: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

Really?

The government  Democrats spying on it's own people is, like, totally cool?


FTFY.

You can't have a good nanny state and a nanny to take care of you if she doesn't know what trouble you are about to get in.
 
2013-06-13 11:02:08 AM

Greil: tenpoundsofcheese: Skleenar: Well, not to take the bait, but what they are discussing here isn't like reading your mail, it's more like reading the address of the recipient, the address of the sender, the time the message was sent and when it was delivered.

Well, not to take the bait, but how does that enable them to stop or disrupt attacks?

I imagine you take a peek at who Muhammed-Al-Muhammed-Al-Muhammed Ben Bezir talks to, analyze the com patterns, and then you've got a likely group. get warrants based on this analysis and do ACTUAL wiretapping...and prevent bombing. Still starts with a real target though, and metadata won't help you get that...


Not necessarily.  You could start with vague organizations or relationships, like, say, Al Queda websites or (to be more Orwellian) NRA/GOP membership lists.  Then you collate the metadata from communications to or from those organizations and you can pretty quickly identify who the "players" are.  They can then become targets with probable cause for a warrant (because, see, look how many contacts they have with suspicious groups).
 
2013-06-13 11:03:03 AM

Skleenar: Wow. 1267 hits in the last half hour. Thanks!


What can I say, she's been popular around the office since we happened upon some "deleted" Black Swan scenes from the Fox servers. I'm surprised she agreed to do half that stuff!
 
2013-06-13 11:04:03 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: sendtodave: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

Really?

The government  Democrats spying on it's own people is, like, totally cool?

FTFY.

You can't have a good nanny state and a nanny to take care of you if she doesn't know what trouble you are about to get in.


You know, I dislike you.  Severely.

But I can't fathom any reason people would defend this, or call for Snowden's head, other than for love of the (current) government.
 
2013-06-13 11:04:26 AM

Agent 84: Just because we know that Pants full of macaroni!! once ate 27 Encharitos and threw up on a cop doesn't mean we're violating the constitution.


Hey now.  That was a mall security guard, not a cop.
 
2013-06-13 11:04:36 AM
'Wiretapping' doesn't mean shiat anymore, does it?
 
2013-06-13 11:05:27 AM
www.notablebiographies.com
Presently blowing huge wads of
dusty  jizz onto the lid of his coffin.

 
2013-06-13 11:05:56 AM
I wonder if the NSA knows where my mother saved her word doc she keeps calling me about.
 
2013-06-13 11:06:18 AM

uber humper: Do you think the government's surveillance activities should go any further than what they've stated?


No.  It creeps the hell out of me where they have stated it is.

But so far, it has not been about tapping US persons comm content, at least to my knowledge.  The NSA has had, purportedly, pretty free reign in tapping content of foreign communications, and that would definitely take up a shiat-ton of computing power in and of itself.  But it would would be news if they were to state they are doing the same, without restriction or FISA warrants, to US persons.

But that is pretty much what many people are claiming is occurring, now.  Until evidence of this is offered, I will try to correct the misapprehension.
 
2013-06-13 11:06:21 AM

Wadded Beef: I wonder if there's a "Holy-shiat-Check-This-Out-Privacy-Invasion-Awesomeness" file compiled from all over the country that the NSA breaks out annually at the Office Christmas party.


Well, a few years ago a number of NSA employees were busted for intercepting and recording, uh, very private calls between deployed military and their spouses/SO's. They then passed the tapes around the office.

So, yeah, I assume they have that sort of thing.
 
2013-06-13 11:07:16 AM

sendtodave: neversubmit: doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.

I've just always assumed I'm such a unimportant little bug no one has bothered to notice me let alone step on me. If I'm wrong about the first how long till I get the second?

Ah.  So you're Chinese.

Security through obscurity.


Huh? No, I'm... er sure I'm Chinese :)
 
2013-06-13 11:07:43 AM
media.tumblr.com
Presently blowing huge wads of
dusty  jizz onto the lid of his coffin.

 
2013-06-13 11:07:48 AM
Actually my dad had a good idea about this. If millions of people just put signature in their emails with a bunch of keywords like "bomb, terror, infidels, etc..." we could basically DDOS their search algorithms and render the whole thing useless. Anyone want to pass this along to Anonymous?
 
2013-06-13 11:08:34 AM

ronaprhys: Cletus C.: ronaprhys: unlikely: Again, we've known this since like the 90s... why is it only just NOW a big deal?

It was a big deal back then, too.  You just weren't paying attention.

Was it a big deal back then? It took recent leaks from a government contractor to expose the extent of the government's reach into our personal lives. The ACLU is now suing the government over these programs. If they knew back in the '90s wouldn't they have sued then, or during the Bush administration?

For some reason, people refuse to acknowledge that much of this information is new to most Americans. Maybe what they're doing now has been done for years but there is new information coming out. If we're going to deal with it and define government's limits people are going to stop being so defensive when it comes to the current president.

Two points to that:
 - There was lots of furor of Bush's activities.  Mostly it was shouted down because terrorism and like such as.  The Patriot Act got lots and lots of (well-deserved) bad press.
- This current stuff seems to be an expansion of what was going on under Bush, which is much more intrusive and actually worse, which means it's getting ever more bad press.


Sure, I was pissed about the Patriot Act and wasn't shy about saying so. The obviously intrusive nature of it in the name of protecting us should have been more disturbing to more Americans. But we were always given assurances it would only be used to target known or suspected terrorists. Now, we're finally getting a look at what it really can do and is doing.

It doesn't make one bit of difference to me which administration has used it or which used it in the worst ways, I'd just like to see clear boundaries and guidelines. Shiatcanning the Patriot Act would be a good start toward that.
 
2013-06-13 11:10:16 AM

dennysgod: Good luck NSA

[i86.photobucket.com image 400x264]


you fail. they own 2 of them.
 
2013-06-13 11:11:25 AM
upload.wikimedia.org

Yeah, him too.
 
2013-06-13 11:11:27 AM
Given recent developments, would you say the time has come to crack each other's skulls open and feast upon the goo inside?
 
2013-06-13 11:12:00 AM

neversubmit: sendtodave: neversubmit: doglover: I've just always assumed the Feds read ALL my emails.

I've just always assumed I'm such a unimportant little bug no one has bothered to notice me let alone step on me. If I'm wrong about the first how long till I get the second?

Ah.  So you're Chinese.

Security through obscurity.

Huh? No, I'm... er sure I'm Chinese :)


Just saying, that's pretty much how people see it here.

"As long as I don't make trouble, I have no reason to care if the government is watching me."

I expected this to be the general outlook of most Americans in the future.  I expect America to become more athoritarian, like more lke China (and vice versa, actually).  A world of economic freedom, and tacit obedience.

Didn't think it'd happen so soon, though.
 
2013-06-13 11:13:15 AM

Insaniteus: I hate how all of these "revelations" just keep telling us stuff that we've known about for 10 freaking years.

It's just an attempt to pin this whole process on Obama, despite him actually getting the court and Congressional approval for every search (Which W refused to do).  There are seriously people right now that are furious and horrified that Obama is spying on Americans through the courts, who didn't give one rat's half-eaten ass about Bush doing all of that and more illegally and without the slightest shred of oversight.

I have a theory that nothing pisses off a Republican more than when Obama adopts a Republican policy (This, Health care mandate, Amnesty, TSA, Drone strikes, closed-door meetings, etc).


Yeah, there was no outrage over FISA when Bush was in office.

/that was sarcasm
//people were pissed then too
///you are a partisan retard
 
2013-06-13 11:14:52 AM

hobberwickey: Actually my dad had a good idea about this. If millions of people just put signature in their emails with a bunch of keywords like "bomb, terror, infidels, etc..." we could basically DDOS their search algorithms and render the whole thing useless. Anyone want to pass this along to Anonymous?


Anonymous? Maybe to the opposite sex! Hell, the only reason we haven't issued a Black Bag order and shipped them to our Idaho FEMA camp Guantanamo Bay is because of all the laughs they give us around the office.
 
2013-06-13 11:15:08 AM

mrexcess: Deneb81: We'll see what the courts think of these programs. Maybe, if they have the balls to take a case.

As for not giving things to other people of you want them to remain private, why doesn't that apply to postal mail? Oh, right, because when the nation was founded that service existed and so there was no way for legislators and courts to devise bizarre and bogus Fourth Amendment interpretations that denied privacy for that. They tried that trick with phones but eventually enough powerful people were hoist on their own petard that they even extended protections to telephone voice transmissions. Somehow, though, although a Skype call is functionally identical if not technically architected the same way, that doesn't count.

It's time we, the people stopped passively accepting all the shenanigans and demanded that our rights be respected and protected, not grudgingly doled out after massive fights with the very people whose job it is to protect them.


The rules for phones and mail are actually similar. CONTENT is protected - the USPS can't look at your mail because - as the government cannot take content without a warrant.

However, phone records and mailing records were NEVER protected. Ever.

And as of yet I haven't seen (may have missed but haven't seen) any difference between Skype or mail or Verizon - call logs (who, when, how long) are allowed. Call CONTENT is not and is protected.

And you do realize the USPS was specifically authorized by the constitution right? To say it already existed in that form is incorrect.
 
2013-06-13 11:16:27 AM

sendtodave: tenpoundsofcheese: sendtodave: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

Really?

The government  Democrats spying on it's own people is, like, totally cool?

FTFY.

You can't have a good nanny state and a nanny to take care of you if she doesn't know what trouble you are about to get in.

You know, I dislike you.  Severely.


No, I didn't know that.

But I can't fathom any reason people would defend this,or call for Snowden's head, other than for love of the (current) government.

Weird huh?  There are people so in love with the current government that no matter what they do, people defend it.
Next step is that people who criticize this will be called racists.
 
2013-06-13 11:17:13 AM

Deneb81: Call CONTENT is not and is protected


By whom and from whom?
 
2013-06-13 11:18:45 AM

Skleenar: uber humper: Do you think the government's surveillance activities should go any further than what they've stated?

No.  It creeps the hell out of me where they have stated it is.

But so far, it has not been about tapping US persons comm content, at least to my knowledge.  The NSA has had, purportedly, pretty free reign in tapping content of foreign communications, and that would definitely take up a shiat-ton of computing power in and of itself.  But it would would be news if they were to state they are doing the same, without restriction or FISA warrants, to US persons.

But that is pretty much what many people are claiming is occurring, now.  Until evidence of this is offered, I will try to correct the misapprehension.


I look at the indexing capabilities of search engines, even the smaller ones, and don't see it as being technologically infeasible.  With computers like this: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-celebrates-new-high-performanc e -computing-center-opening_735141.html (50,000 trillion operations per second) and the oft spoke of Utah facility, the Fed is on the bleeding edge. Which makes it pretty easy to believe that is data can be searched on a fairly granular level -- and quickly.
 
2013-06-13 11:22:59 AM
Bombs, ricin, drones, governtment overthrow, pressure cooker, false flag, OWS, anarchist, guns, treason, allah, bronies.

There, now this thread is monitored.

/you're welcome
 
2013-06-13 11:23:20 AM
Skleenar
But so far, it has not been about tapping US persons comm content, at least to my knowledge.

Why do you keep saying this? I showed you yesterday that content is exactly what PRISM targets, according to the person who leaked the information on it. Are you just trolling? Deliberately spreading disinformation?
 
2013-06-13 11:23:46 AM

Agent 84: hobberwickey: Actually my dad had a good idea about this. If millions of people just put signature in their emails with a bunch of keywords like "bomb, terror, infidels, etc..." we could basically DDOS their search algorithms and render the whole thing useless. Anyone want to pass this along to Anonymous?

Anonymous? Maybe to the opposite sex! Hell, the only reason we haven't issued a Black Bag order and shipped them to our Idaho FEMA camp Guantanamo Bay is because of all the laughs they give us around the office.


Maybe so, but the one thing they seem to know how to do well is flood network traffic.
 
2013-06-13 11:23:51 AM

trappedspirit: Bombs, ricin, drones, governtment overthrow, pressure cooker, false flag, OWS, anarchist, guns, treason, allah, bronies.

There, now this thread is monitored.

/you're welcome


That's a lot of typing wasting when you could have just said "Federal Reserve"
 
2013-06-13 11:25:18 AM
I saw this coming, and so did anyone else with a farking brain.
So- many of you are brainless.
 
2013-06-13 11:26:18 AM
Deneb81
And as of yet I haven't seen (may have missed but haven't seen) any difference between Skype or mail or Verizon - call logs (who, when, how long) are allowed. Call CONTENT is not and is protected.

Communication content is *exactly* what PRISM targets. If you weren't aware of that it's because you haven't actually listened to anything Greenwald reported or Snowden revealed.
 
2013-06-13 11:26:29 AM

trappedspirit: Bombs, ricin, drones, governtment overthrow, pressure cooker, false flag, OWS, anarchist, guns, treason, allah, bronies.

There, now this thread is monitored.

/you're welcome


Like it wasn't already. Don't you know that Drew has NSA equipment in his bedroom closet, so that Obama can tap into fark threads and sniff out the paid-per-post guys. But if you ask him about it, he has to physically copy those threads to a thumb drive and physically hand it off to them!
 
2013-06-13 11:26:45 AM

DubtodaIll: trappedspirit: Bombs, ricin, drones, governtment overthrow, pressure cooker, false flag, OWS, anarchist, guns, treason, allah, bronies.

There, now this thread is monitored.

/you're welcome

That's a lot of typing wasting when you could have just said "Federal Reserve"


Or "I'm in the Air Force"

If you want things to be noticed, you've gotta put them in bold. Geez, people
 
2013-06-13 11:26:53 AM
What if we collectively fought back against the NSA by contributing (orders of magnitude) more garbage communication in an attempt to overwhelm their metadata collection efforts? For example: let's say we all run a program that for every email we send, we send thousands of variations of that same email differing only slightly in nearly every aspect with regard to its metadata, recipients, content, etc. And then do the same via SMS and whatever other communication system the government is tracking. I know it would amount to spam, but i would be willing to deal with that so long as would help make this program as expensive and fruitless as can be imagined.

I'm sure they are able to filter through most of it, but anything that can be done to undermine their efforts can and should be done.

I don't buy the idea of, "It's only secret in that it's classified" WTF Ever that means. Or, "Every member of Conress was briefed, Secret Courts have to approve of X, Y and Z" as if ANY OF US CARE that government is monitoring government.

We apparently show our naked bodies to the TSA every time we travel (or opt out and get a good ol fashioned groping) Allow them to read our email, internet searches, browse ANYTHING we have stored in the "cloud", look at who we call, text, etc. Meanwhile, the USA incarcerates millions of our citizens for crimes ranging from minor drug possession up on through everything else. We permanently stamp everyone ever charged with a crime in their record so they can either be embarrassed by a future employer or just not hired altogether.

It really makes me wonder what is meant by the word "freedom" and how much of it is left. I just don't think it's enough to say, "I just assumed they have been doing that anyway." Fark that.
 
2013-06-13 11:27:08 AM
Don't worry, it's not like governments ever abuse power
 
2013-06-13 11:27:52 AM
When the feds announce that there will be a complete revamping of the data infrastructure and every man jack in the US will soon have Über fast lightpipe bringing data, telephony and TeeVee to their door for cheap, you may officially start sh*tting in your pants.
 
2013-06-13 11:28:32 AM

Stoker: I saw this coming, and so did anyone else with a farking brain.
So- many of you are brainless.


I think so.  That's why so many people are OK with it.  They've seen it in Hollywood movies so many times they believe it existed without a leak.
 
2013-06-13 11:30:12 AM

Stoker: I saw this coming, and so did anyone else with a farking brain.
So- many of you are brainless.


Your smugness is like a shield that protects us all.
 
2013-06-13 11:30:48 AM
A secret interpretation of the Patriot Act led .
The state is god. Bow before the ISP.
 
2013-06-13 11:31:20 AM
I still don't know whether to be enraged and concerned

I guess it doesnt matter whether I'm either, they're not going to stop doing it
 
2013-06-13 11:31:33 AM

D135: Don't worry, it's not like governments ever abuse power


People will learn.  Historically speaking, governments almost always go corrupt, eventually. Always working toward a critical mass -- very rarely stepping back.

More people have been killed by the hands of their own governments than by invaders.
 
2013-06-13 11:32:54 AM

uber humper: If you want things to be noticed, you've gotta put them in bold. Geez, people


Actually, the algorithm responds better to all caps. Speaking of which, please ask your Uncle to lay off the caps lock in his emails. I know he's unhappy that Obama was elected, but he really needs to learn how to use the Shift key.
 
2013-06-13 11:33:09 AM
So?  Governments have always used interstate commerce as a way to enforce power.  Since the internet crosses many borders, why would anyone be surprised?  I always assumed they were reading anything they wanted.

Life is much simpler and happier when you don't get bogged down with pipe dreams of privacy a thinking person knew was never possible.  You want privacy?  Stop using electricity.  You cannot be researched if you never plug anything in and pay cash.
 
2013-06-13 11:33:20 AM

basemetal: It's for the children, citizen, don't you care about all the children this will save?


I pay full price.
 
2013-06-13 11:34:52 AM

Lady J: I still don't know whether to be enraged and concerned

I guess it doesnt matter whether I'm either, they're not going to stop doing it


When the President or a Supreme Court Justice get taken down because some dick leaked their affair with a dead boy or live woman, they will stop doing this.  Until then, just use code words like target and hit and explode.
 
2013-06-13 11:34:55 AM

tylerdurden217: What if we collectively fought back against the NSA by contributing (orders of magnitude) more garbage communication in an attempt to overwhelm their metadata collection efforts?


Fraa Jad sees through your bulshytte scheme.
 
2013-06-13 11:35:17 AM

Lady J: I still don't know whether to be enraged and concerned

I guess it doesnt matter whether I'm either, they're not going to stop doing it


That's the spirit!

You can't fight the government, and you have no power to control it.

America!  Way better than shiatholes like China!
 
2013-06-13 11:35:19 AM

tylerdurden217: What if we collectively fought back against the NSA by contributing (orders of magnitude) more garbage communication in an attempt to overwhelm their metadata collection efforts?


Uh, take a look around you.
 
2013-06-13 11:35:26 AM

Agent 84: uber humper: If you want things to be noticed, you've gotta put them in bold. Geez, people

Actually, the algorithm responds better to all caps. Speaking of which, please ask your Uncle to lay off the caps lock in his emails. I know he's unhappy that Obama was elected, but he really needs to learn how to use the Shift key.


As I understand it doesn't search Arabic, that would be racist. Maybe if we change font's to an Arabic font, then change back on the other end, we can plan that bank heist.
 
2013-06-13 11:37:58 AM
We, the elected officials and agencies who have sworn to uphold and protect the constitution of the united states of america double dog dare you to try and find a workaround for the sh*t we're pulling.  Go on.  Try.
 
2013-06-13 11:39:50 AM

fickenchucker: So? Governments have always used interstate commerce as a way to enforce power. Since the internet crosses many borders, why would anyone be surprised? I always assumed they were reading anything they wanted.

Life is much simpler and happier when you don't get bogged down with pipe dreams of privacy a thinking person knew was never possible. You want privacy? Stop using electricity. You cannot be researched if you never plug anything in and pay cash.


It's about misuse.  I remember the owner of a club I used to hang out at was jailed for bribing city and county officials in LV and San Diego.  The FBI used the Patriot Act to bust him.  http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/editorials/article/Time-to-fix-the-Patr i ot-Act-2717306.php  It's a slippery slope.  It starts like this case, becomes more and more common, then we will be in an absolute police state.

You've been wearing rose colored glasses if you think this is as far as it will go. It has to stop, and stop here.
 
2013-06-13 11:42:39 AM

fickenchucker: So?  Governments have always used interstate commerce as a way to enforce power.  Since the internet crosses many borders, why would anyone be surprised?  I always assumed they were reading anything they wanted.


"I'm farking your girlfriend.  But its cool.  I've always been farking her."
 
2013-06-13 11:43:01 AM
sendtodave

Lady J: I still don't know whether to be enraged and concerned

I guess it doesnt matter whether I'm either, they're not going to stop doing it

That's the spirit!

You can't fight the government, and you have no power to control it.

America!  Way better than shiatholes like China!


im british actually, but I imagine if you're doing it we are

what would you suggest? making a MASSIVE fuss is a way to get my emails read by a human being rather than an algorithm (or whatever.. not in IT)

even if you successfully did make a massive fuss, and got a government elected that didn't do this, it wouldnt last. i imagine it's just too valuable a tool

at least now we all know, people will find other ways to plot their suicide bombings / do their drug deals / exchange their photos of etc etc
 
2013-06-13 11:43:27 AM

neongoats: trappedspirit: Bombs, ricin, drones, governtment overthrow, pressure cooker, false flag, OWS, anarchist, guns, treason, allah, bronies.

There, now this thread is monitored.

/you're welcome

Like it wasn't already. Don't you know that Drew has NSA equipment in his bedroom closet, so that Obama can tap into fark threads and sniff out the paid-per-post guys. But if you ask him about it, he has to physically copy those threads to a thumb drive and physically hand it off to them!


The truth is that forum posts and other public data is Hoovered up with abandon. All the better to "watch your ideas form" with, m'dear.
 
2013-06-13 11:46:11 AM

kindms: Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-Calif.) said lawmakers learned "significantly more" about the spy programs at the National Security Agency (NSA) during a briefing on Tuesday with counterterrorism officials.
"What we learned in there," Sanchez said, "is significantly more than what is out in the media today."

"I think it's just broader than most people even realize, and I think that's, in one way, what astounded most of us, too," Sanchez said of the briefing.

http://thehill.com/video/house/305047-dem-rep-lawmakers-learned-sign if icantly-more-about-surveillance-programs-in-nsa-briefing



Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
 
2013-06-13 11:46:17 AM

I_C_Weener: fickenchucker: So?  Governments have always used interstate commerce as a way to enforce power.  Since the internet crosses many borders, why would anyone be surprised?  I always assumed they were reading anything they wanted.

"I'm farking your girlfriend.  But its cool.  I've always been farking her."


If the guy's "always been farking her", then she'd be his girlfriend. So it would indeed be "cool".
 
2013-06-13 11:46:33 AM

uber humper: It's a slippery slope.  It starts like this case, becomes more and more common, then we will be in an absolute police state.


Do you own a small business?

That's suspicious.

Are you late for work a lot?

That's suspicious.

Do you own an off road capable vehicle?

That's suspicious.

Do you own a commercial truck but don't have a business that requires one?

That's suspicious.

Do you send and receive e-mails from persons known to associate with persons of interest?

That's suspicious.

Have you recently purchased a home or any item over 10,000.00?

That's suspicious.

Do you have an unusually high amount of large file downloads?

That's suspicious.

Are you studying subjects at university that might lend themselves to terrorist activities?

That's suspicious.

Do you have a non VoIP land line?

That's suspicious.

Do you eat, sleep and sh*t?

That's suspicious.
 
2013-06-13 11:47:14 AM

mrexcess: neongoats: trappedspirit: Bombs, ricin, drones, governtment overthrow, pressure cooker, false flag, OWS, anarchist, guns, treason, allah, bronies.

There, now this thread is monitored.

/you're welcome

Like it wasn't already. Don't you know that Drew has NSA equipment in his bedroom closet, so that Obama can tap into fark threads and sniff out the paid-per-post guys. But if you ask him about it, he has to physically copy those threads to a thumb drive and physically hand it off to them!

The truth is that forum posts and other public data is Hoovered up with abandon. All the better to "watch your ideas form" with, m'dear.


Wait until they strengthen the laws on sedition and start combing forum access logs and comparing IPs with ISP records. You past (posts here) can come back to haunt you.

/although, they'll probably put an end to anonymous posting before that.  That will make it even easier.
 
2013-06-13 11:48:31 AM

uber humper: Agent 84: uber humper: If you want things to be noticed, you've gotta put them in bold. Geez, people

Actually, the algorithm responds better to all caps. Speaking of which, please ask your Uncle to lay off the caps lock in his emails. I know he's unhappy that Obama was elected, but he really needs to learn how to use the Shift key.

As I understand it doesn't search Arabic, that would be racist. Maybe if we change font's to an Arabic font, then change back on the other end, we can plan that bank heist.


Don't worry, all of our numbers are Arabic, giving them cause to rifle through your dirty undies if you put 3.14159 in your message.
 
2013-06-13 11:49:13 AM

Biological Ali: I_C_Weener: fickenchucker: So?  Governments have always used interstate commerce as a way to enforce power.  Since the internet crosses many borders, why would anyone be surprised?  I always assumed they were reading anything they wanted.

"I'm farking your girlfriend.  But its cool.  I've always been farking her."

If the guy's "always been farking her", then she'd be his girlfriend. So it would indeed be "cool".


"I've been skimming money off your bank account.  But its cool, I've been doing it since you first got the account under the old bank's name."
 
2013-06-13 11:49:37 AM

bunner: uber humper: It's a slippery slope.  It starts like this case, becomes more and more common, then we will be in an absolute police state.

Do you own a small business?

That's suspicious.

Are you late for work a lot?

That's suspicious.

Do you own an off road capable vehicle?

That's suspicious.

Do you own a commercial truck but don't have a business that requires one?

That's suspicious.

Do you send and receive e-mails from persons known to associate with persons of interest?

That's suspicious.

Have you recently purchased a home or any item over 10,000.00?

That's suspicious.

Do you have an unusually high amount of large file downloads?

That's suspicious.

Are you studying subjects at university that might lend themselves to terrorist activities?

That's suspicious.

Do you have a non VoIP land line?

That's suspicious.

Do you eat, sleep and sh*t?

That's suspicious.


Damn, I checked all of those off except the non-voip.  Who the hell uses copper?

/Yea, I know the joke, the copper is in the ground but that doesn't mean it's dead.
 
2013-06-13 11:50:19 AM

neongoats: uber humper: Agent 84: uber humper: If you want things to be noticed, you've gotta put them in bold. Geez, people

Actually, the algorithm responds better to all caps. Speaking of which, please ask your Uncle to lay off the caps lock in his emails. I know he's unhappy that Obama was elected, but he really needs to learn how to use the Shift key.

As I understand it doesn't search Arabic, that would be racist. Maybe if we change font's to an Arabic font, then change back on the other end, we can plan that bank heist.

Don't worry, all of our numbers are Arabic, giving them cause to rifle through your dirty undies if you put 3.14159 in your message.


Filthy terrorist numbers!!!

This is my IX post today.
 
2013-06-13 11:50:38 AM

uber humper: Agent 84: uber humper: If you want things to be noticed, you've gotta put them in bold. Geez, people

Actually, the algorithm responds better to all caps. Speaking of which, please ask your Uncle to lay off the caps lock in his emails. I know he's unhappy that Obama was elected, but he really needs to learn how to use the Shift key.

As I understand it doesn't search Arabic, that would be racist. Maybe if we change font's to an Arabic font, then change back on the other end, we can plan that bank heist.


We can parse Arabic just fine. Klingon on the other hand-crap, said too much.
 
2013-06-13 11:50:53 AM

uber humper: Who the hell uses copper?


A whole lot of federal employees, attorneys and consultants with their access panels installed inside the house.
 
2013-06-13 11:51:31 AM
I work for a company that makes Fibre storage equipment, so I hope at least this will be good for business. We did see a strong uptick in Federal sales last quarter.
 
2013-06-13 11:52:36 AM
tylerdurden217
What if we collectively fought back against the NSA by contributing (orders of magnitude) more garbage communication in an attempt to overwhelm their metadata collection efforts? For example: let's say we all run a program that for every email we send, we send thousands of variations of that same email differing only slightly in nearly every aspect with regard to its metadata, recipients, content, etc. And then do the same via SMS and whatever other communication system the government is tracking. I know it would amount to spam, but i would be willing to deal with that so long as would help make this program as expensive and fruitless as can be imagined.

That's the spirit. That actual implementation wouldn't be very useful, because it would be too easy to filter. However, other noise-generating "jamming" techniques that broke correlation and imparted plausible deniability could work.

It really makes me wonder what is meant by the word "freedom" and how much of it is left. I just don't think it's enough to say, "I just assumed they have been doing that anyway." Fark that.

Freedom means whatever we force -- or allow other to force -- it to mean. American citizens have been passive riders on the bus for too long. It's driving for the cliff, we can see it happening, and we need to take back the power from the propagandists, media moguls, wealth-mongers, and big brother so that we can stop it. It's a daunting task in the abstract until you view it as a series of battles instead of one big war. This is one such battle.
 
2013-06-13 11:52:47 AM

neongoats: uber humper: Agent 84: uber humper: If you want things to be noticed, you've gotta put them in bold. Geez, people

Actually, the algorithm responds better to all caps. Speaking of which, please ask your Uncle to lay off the caps lock in his emails. I know he's unhappy that Obama was elected, but he really needs to learn how to use the Shift key.

As I understand it doesn't search Arabic, that would be racist. Maybe if we change font's to an Arabic font, then change back on the other end, we can plan that bank heist.

Don't worry, all of our numbers are Arabic, giving them cause to rifle through your dirty undies if you put 3.14159 in your message.


I know they are called Arabic numerals, but... Well, the "one" does look similar

emersonkent.com
 
2013-06-13 11:52:53 AM

Agent 84: We can parse Arabic just fine. Klingon on the other hand-crap, said too much.


I'm going to allow for the sake of argument that you are what you portend to be.  In that context, let me ask you something.  Does the smug make Hitler's dick taste better?   :  )
 
2013-06-13 11:52:55 AM

Skleenar: tenpoundsofcheese: Well, not to take the bait, but how does that enable them to stop or disrupt attacks?

The theory is that using metadata, you can establish patterns that are useful in identifying suspicious persons or activity.

http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-fi nd -paul-revere/

And I believe that it is useful for this sort of thing.

However, it would also be useful in finding just about any sort of pattern you find interesting, not just ones that are related to national security (i.e. politcal leanings, affairs, etc.).

It's not without the potential for abuse.  What it is, however, is a streamlined way to find the data you really want without having to collect all of it and read through it.


The AOL search history closure from a few years back demonstrated that just abstracted meta-data can identify specific people.
 
2013-06-13 11:53:11 AM

uber humper: It's about misuse.  I remember the owner of a club I used to hang out at was jailed for bribing city and county officials in LV and San Diego.  The FBI used the Patriot Act to bust him.  http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/editorials/article/Time-to-fix-the-Patr i ot-Act-2717306.php  It's a slippery slope.  It starts like this case, becomes more and more common, then we will be in an absolute police state.

You've been wearing rose colored glasses if you think this is as far as it will go. It has to stop, and stop here.


Exactly. It's inevitable that the federal government decides that, in order to get more value out of all of the data that is collected, they start using it for other purposes. It IS NOT comforting to hear that out of all of the data that has been collected there have been handfuls (dozens?) of cases in which that has helped disrupt plots... as if they fight terrorism with a Philip K Dick style "precrime" system. So in other words, the ROI on the sacrifice of our civil liberties has been really farking low. That won't mean that they kill the program, but instead, add value to it by increasing its scope. Fark that.

Instead of dismantling the systems that the Bush administration put into place in the name of the War on Terror... Obama has further cemented it, building a strong foundation for future administrations to use it as they please. Well, at least due process is gone. Saves time when looking for a lawyer so you can just get better at Sudoku while you waste away your best years behind bars. But crime rates are down! It's working!

Jeeezus I'm paranoid.
 
2013-06-13 11:55:54 AM
Who cares? Come election time the plebs will forget all of this, lap up the same tired pandering lies, and reelect these idiots.
 
2013-06-13 11:56:20 AM
Sock Ruh Tease: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

The younger generation understands the logistics that would be required to read every message and figuresASSUMES the government focuses on known terrorists and their plots, not my text to my BFF Jill.

& assuming things always works out so well

/younger generations brought up with no expectation of privacy & that the gov't has their best interest in mind

or

/so distracted and consumed with frivolous technology and that any & everyone gives two shiats about every boring detail of their life that there really isn't time to worry about much else

/slashies with options
 
2013-06-13 11:56:47 AM

bunner: uber humper: Who the hell uses copper?

A whole lot of federal employees, attorneys and consultants with their access panels installed inside the house.


They'd do better running their own PBX. I use Elasix, for both business and personal (makes it easy to connect both boxes together).  PBX in a Flash is pretty good for beginners.
 
2013-06-13 11:57:02 AM
uber humper
Wait until they strengthen the laws on sedition and start combing forum access logs and comparing IPs with ISP records. You past (posts here) can come back to haunt you

They are already doing this, at least the correlation part. Why do you think that "metadata" is so handy? They know who you are, and they are "watching your ideas form as you type them".
 
2013-06-13 11:57:45 AM

bunner: I'm going to allow for the sake of argument that you are what you portend to be. In that context, let me ask you something. Does the smug make Hitler's dick taste better? : )


I know we seem a little ominous, but we're pretty good guys if you get to know us.

Oh, and just for that little shot of snark, I am now flagging you as "Communist Al-Qaeda Sympathizer". Watch your back! ; )
 
2013-06-13 11:57:58 AM

Deneb81: And you do realize the USPS was specifically authorized by the constitution right? To say it already existed in that form is incorrect.


The Colonies had an inter-colonial postal service from 1691. The United States had one authorized in 1775, by the 2nd continental congress. All well before the 1791 Constitution, which formalized an entity that already existed at the federal level.
 
2013-06-13 11:59:44 AM
For those who ask, "why get upset now?"

A forest fire in the middle of nowhere can be ignored as a non-threat for a very long time.. once it gets into the highly populated neighborhoods (once you see the smoke wafting over YOUR house) things feel quite different.

Well, people are seeing that smoke. It's not a surprise, "why now"?
 
2013-06-13 12:00:42 PM
I'm gonna go and shoot some feral kittens after I beat off to WWE and watch Pawn Stars and play a little GTA IV cause THE BIGGEST DOUCHEBAG WINS!1!1   Still waiting for that federal media consultant job offer, mistah Alexander.
 
2013-06-13 12:01:58 PM

Agent 84: Oh, and just for that little shot of snark, I am now flagging you as "Communist Al-Qaeda Sympathizer". Watch your back! ; )


Nah, just put a bullet in my head, massah.  It's give you something to fantasize about while you beat your wife.  :  )
 
2013-06-13 12:03:19 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: ITT: Republicans believing that Liberals are perfectly ok with being domestically spied on, simply because Fartbama is the president.


ITT: Liberals believing that posting "You're only mad about this because Obama is President! Herp Derp!" isn't defending this bullshiat.
 
2013-06-13 12:04:11 PM
You know what everyone should do?  Create two emails on from one computer at one location and another on a computer at a different location.  Give them names like Habib and Omar and start correspondence between the two.   Put in ambiguous speech that makes references to bombs and the big cheese in DC.  If done right, I bet some Arab looking guy with an accent will start appearing around your house or place of work.  Trust me, if you do it right it will happen.  Trust me.
 
2013-06-13 12:04:33 PM

Skleenar: tenpoundsofcheese: Well, not to take the bait, but how does that enable them to stop or disrupt attacks?

The theory is that using metadata, you can establish patterns that are useful in identifying suspicious persons or activity.

http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-fi nd -paul-revere/


Meh, I get the theory, but even that blog falls apart in it's first assumption:  that you know which individuals belong to which groups.  When the emails are coming from gmail, aol, yahoo etc.

That is not meta data, that is additional data that is obtained from somewhere.
 
2013-06-13 12:05:08 PM

mikewadestr: You know what everyone should do?  Create two emails on from one computer at one location and another on a computer at a different location.  Give them names like Habib and Omar and start correspondence between the two.   Put in ambiguous speech that makes references to bombs and the big cheese in DC.  If done right, I bet some Arab looking guy with an accent will start appearing around your house or place of work.  Trust me, if you do it right it will happen.  Trust me.


You would do better making it sound like you are a white supremacist.
 
2013-06-13 12:09:06 PM
If we don't ordinarily have the expectation of privacy in our electronic communications, do we have it if we take steps to encrypt everything?
 
2013-06-13 12:10:06 PM
"to the cops, we're all ni**ers".  - '60s student activist.
 
2013-06-13 12:13:39 PM

bunner: Nah, just put a bullet in my head, massah.


Unfortunately, our UAVs aren't armed yet. For all the state of the art targeting technology they've developed, the Defense Department still can't hit the broad side of a deadline.
 
2013-06-13 12:15:19 PM

Agent 84: bunner: Nah, just put a bullet in my head, massah.

Unfortunately, our UAVs aren't armed yet. For all the state of the art targeting technology they've developed, the Defense Department still can't hit the broad side of a deadline.


You know what's hilarious about the people who are the character you're affecting?  They think somebody wins.  Deluded children with guns and power.
 
2013-06-13 12:22:00 PM
Well, at least someone is reading my emails, cuz I'm sure as hell not.
 
2013-06-13 12:25:51 PM
This is a basic 4th amendment violation of our right to privacy and freedom from unnecessary searches.  SPEAK UP!

If you know evil is being committed and the tools for evil are only being expanded upon, as a good person, you should say something!

Terrorism can be stopped without us loosing our basic freedoms as afforded under the constitution.  The CIA knew Bin Laden's 'attack was imminent' and delivered that memo to Bush way before 9/11.  Our intelligence network is in place and works... WE DON'T NEED TO LOSE OUR BASIC FREEDOMS in exchange for PHONY SECURITY.

Contact your congressman / representative.
Call them on the phone.

Show them you're not afraid, but are a CONCERNED citizen.
Concerned for your 4th Amendment rights.
Concerned that this phony big brother system is not keeping us any safer.


http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml - Click on links on the bottom left, it takes a minute.  Call the Washington office of both your State Representative and two Congressmen.
They don't ask your name, just your zip code and message to deliver the rep/congressman.

STOP COMPLAINING
AND DO SOMETHING!
 
2013-06-13 12:29:49 PM

mrexcess: Why do you keep saying this? I showed you yesterday that content is exactly what PRISM targets, according to the person who leaked the information on it. Are you just trolling? Deliberately spreading disinformation


But not according to the leaked documents that have been made public, nor from what has officially been said (with grain of salt, of course) about the program.

What Snowden said was that he had the authority to wiretap anyone in the world.  As questionable as that statement is, and even leaving aside the discussion of what "authority" means in this context, his words certainly imply that wiretapping (which I am assuming here means reading content of communications) is not done regularly, but instead on demand as "needed".
 
2013-06-13 12:29:57 PM
Dear NSA

I know it's important that "our" team WINS!

At any cost, even if it means turning the US into everything the US stands against, we have to WIN!

The winner's circle.  Let me show it to you.  Ha ha.  Suckers.

www.heritagepursuit.com
 
2013-06-13 12:31:45 PM

NostroZ: Terrorism can be stopped without us loosing our basic freedoms as afforded under the constitution.


I don't know if terrorism can be stopped.  But we need to stop using domestic spying in place of good diplomacy.

The US doesn't need domestic spying we need a good PR department along with capable leadership. Domestic spying is attempting to treat the symptoms, not the problem. The problem is festering. The US citizens now have terrorism to worry about and also the government.
 
2013-06-13 12:32:42 PM

bunner: Dear NSA

I know it's important that "our" team WINS!

At any cost, even if it means turning the US into everything the US stands against, we have to WIN!

The winner's circle.  Let me show it to you.  Ha ha.  Suckers.

[www.heritagepursuit.com image 695x444]


That looks relaxing!
 
2013-06-13 12:33:05 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Skleenar: tenpoundsofcheese: Well, not to take the bait, but how does that enable them to stop or disrupt attacks?

The theory is that using metadata, you can establish patterns that are useful in identifying suspicious persons or activity.

http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-fi nd -paul-revere/

Meh, I get the theory, but even that blog falls apart in it's first assumption:  that you know which individuals belong to which groups.  When the emails are coming from gmail, aol, yahoo etc.

That is not meta data, that is additional data that is obtained from somewhere.


Of course the metadata is analyzed in context of other "real world" data.  It would be silly not to use all the data we have at our disposal.
 
2013-06-13 12:34:11 PM
is pgp still outlawed in the US?
 
2013-06-13 12:34:49 PM

uber humper: That looks relaxing!


And so far, inevitable.  You'd think we would have incorporated this little factoid into our societal management master plan by now.
 
2013-06-13 12:34:58 PM

uber humper: NostroZ: Terrorism can be stopped without us loosing our basic freedoms as afforded under the constitution.

I don't know if terrorism can be stopped.  But we need to stop using domestic spying in place of good diplomacy.

The US doesn't need domestic spying we need a good PR department along with capable leadership. Domestic spying is attempting to treat the symptoms, not the problem. The problem is festering. The US citizens now have terrorism to worry about and also the government.


Right!  Terror is an emotion.  How can you have a war against a basic emotion?
We already have the CIA and FBI, which do a stellar job in protecting the citizens from in and outside the country.

This whole NSA, TSA, bullcrap is not about security, it's about big business and an overreach.
As a citizen in a democracy THIS IS YOUR TIME TO SPEAK UP.

What's the point of having the FREEDOM OF SPEECH IF YOU NEVER US IT?
 
2013-06-13 12:35:17 PM

This text is now purple: Skleenar: tenpoundsofcheese: Well, not to take the bait, but how does that enable them to stop or disrupt attacks?

The theory is that using metadata, you can establish patterns that are useful in identifying suspicious persons or activity.

http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-fi nd -paul-revere/

And I believe that it is useful for this sort of thing.

The AOL search history closure from a few years back demonstrated that just abstracted meta-data can identify specific people.


But I don't think we are talking about using data from search history.  This was metadata about emails.

When most are using things like gmail, AOL, yahoo mail, I don't understand how you ever get something useful unless you tie it in with something else, such as the content of the email or their search history, etc.
 
2013-06-13 12:36:30 PM

lucksi: is pgp still outlawed in the US?


I don't think it is. Once upon a time, encryption was considered a munition and regulated, but no longer.  But, if you are told to decrypt, you probably should http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/decryption-deadline-looms/  . So that makes it kinda moot but does prevent real time.
 
2013-06-13 12:37:31 PM

NostroZ: What's the point of having the FREEDOM OF SPEECH IF YOU NEVER US IT?


I've scoured  the neighborhood for a free speech zone, but so far, I've just come up with a couple of speed traps by the doughnut shop.
 
2013-06-13 12:37:57 PM

NostroZ: What's the point of having the FREEDOM OF SPEECH IF YOU NEVER US IT?


I know.  Look how you can't find anyone, anywhere, speaking up about the Government's overreach in domestic spying.
 
2013-06-13 12:39:56 PM
Skleenar: OK. As long as we all know you're playing a disinformation game, I guess it's OK. But that's exactly what you're doing.

When you say "so far as I know", what you really mean is, "so far as I want to believe, despite reports to the contrary that I reject out of hand".
 
2013-06-13 12:40:19 PM
Mytch
If the program were being run by computer engineers who I would expect to have demonstrable knowledge of what is and is not metadata,
[..]
the line between meta-data and data suddenly disappears and they're reading your e-mail.


Especially because that line is literally just an empty line.

Or rather: two line-break characters.
An email is just a text where every line until the first empty line is treated as a header (example lines: "Subject: grow your privacy another 2 inches" or "From: lo­n­gdo­ng[nospam-﹫-backwards]a­di­aq­la*o­r­g" ) and the text after that empty line is interpreted as the content .

So if you tap a line and want to collect email metadata, you pretty much have to store the email and throw away the content later or read and interpret the data in real time and then "tune out" when you see a sequence of two line breaks within an IP packet (..which might have contained a short email in its entirety already).

/btw,, since the "Subject" is a header line, you could consider it part of the metadata from a technical point of view
 
2013-06-13 12:41:06 PM

NostroZ: This is a basic 4th amendment violation of our right to privacy and freedom from unnecessary searches.  SPEAK UP!

If you know evil is being committed and the tools for evil are only being expanded upon, as a good person, you should say something!

Terrorism can be stopped without us loosing our basic freedoms as afforded under the constitution.  The CIA knew Bin Laden's 'attack was imminent' and delivered that memo to Bush way before 9/11.  Our intelligence network is in place and works... WE DON'T NEED TO LOSE OUR BASIC FREEDOMS in exchange for PHONY SECURITY.

Contact your congressman / representative.
Call them on the phone.

Show them you're not afraid, but are a CONCERNED citizen.
Concerned for your 4th Amendment rights.
Concerned that this phony big brother system is not keeping us any safer.

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml - Click on links on the bottom left, it takes a minute.  Call the Washington office of both your State Representative and two Congressmen.
They don't ask your name, just your zip code and message to deliver the rep/congressman.

STOP COMPLAINING
AND DO SOMETHING!


Losing, not loosing. Pet peeve.
 
2013-06-13 12:43:43 PM

NostroZ: uber humper: NostroZ: Terrorism can be stopped without us loosing our basic freedoms as afforded under the constitution.

I don't know if terrorism can be stopped.  But we need to stop using domestic spying in place of good diplomacy.

The US doesn't need domestic spying we need a good PR department along with capable leadership. Domestic spying is attempting to treat the symptoms, not the problem. The problem is festering. The US citizens now have terrorism to worry about and also the government.

Right!  Terror is an emotion.  How can you have a war against a basic emotion?
We already have the CIA and FBI, which do a stellar job in protecting the citizens from in and outside the country.

This whole NSA, TSA, bullcrap is not about security, it's about big business and an overreach.
As a citizen in a democracy THIS IS YOUR TIME TO SPEAK UP.

What's the point of having the FREEDOM OF SPEECH IF YOU NEVER US IT?


I mentioned in another thread that anyone involved in PRISM (or any domestic survalance), from the highest to the lowest tech,  should have their name published in the NY Times along with their zip code.  Similar to what the East Germans did with Stasi informants (and that was like almost 2.5% of the population). They need to be made an example. This is how to prevent it from happening again, this is how to regain trust in the government.
 
2013-06-13 12:46:09 PM

uber humper: I mentioned in another thread that anyone involved in PRISM (or any domestic survalance), from the highest to the lowest tech,  should have their name published in the NY Times along with their zip code.


But.. a secret interpretation of the Patriot act disallows this for SECURITY!  Grease up and bend over that kitchen table, folks, cause the malarkey is gonna flow like sewage.
 
2013-06-13 12:46:34 PM

mrexcess: Skleenar: OK. As long as we all know you're playing a disinformation game, I guess it's OK. But that's exactly what you're doing.

When you say "so far as I know", what you really mean is, "so far as I want to believe, despite reports to the contrary that I reject out of hand".


If you have such reports, please indicate them to me.  Last I remember, you gave me a link that describe the metadata analysis of PRISM, and Snowden's assertion that he had authority to wiretap people.  I don't believe I've rejected anything "out of hand" other than to say that I have some reason to question the meaning and veracity of Snowden's statements.

Greenwald says there are hundreds of documents on this system and more will be coming to light soon.  So maybe your assertion will be proved out.  I just haven't seen it.
 
2013-06-13 12:51:32 PM

bunner: uber humper: I mentioned in another thread that anyone involved in PRISM (or any domestic survalance), from the highest to the lowest tech,  should have their name published in the NY Times along with their zip code.

But.. a secret interpretation of the Patriot act disallows this for SECURITY!  Grease up and bend over that kitchen table, folks, cause the malarkey is gonna flow like sewage.


Either way, legal or illegal, it's still wrong and dangerous.

Short sightedness. They create an apparatus to prevent domestic dissension which creates more domestic dissension  which will intern will need a more sophisticated apparatus to contain.
 
2013-06-13 12:51:44 PM

uber humper: NostroZ: uber humper: NostroZ: Terrorism can be stopped without us loosing our basic freedoms as afforded under the constitution.

I don't know if terrorism can be stopped.  But we need to stop using domestic spying in place of good diplomacy.

The US doesn't need domestic spying we need a good PR department along with capable leadership. Domestic spying is attempting to treat the symptoms, not the problem. The problem is festering. The US citizens now have terrorism to worry about and also the government.

Right!  Terror is an emotion.  How can you have a war against a basic emotion?
We already have the CIA and FBI, which do a stellar job in protecting the citizens from in and outside the country.

This whole NSA, TSA, bullcrap is not about security, it's about big business and an overreach.
As a citizen in a democracy THIS IS YOUR TIME TO SPEAK UP.

What's the point of having the FREEDOM OF SPEECH IF YOU NEVER US IT?

I mentioned in another thread that anyone involved in PRISM (or any domestic survalance), from the highest to the lowest tech,  should have their name published in the NY Times along with their zip code.  Similar to what the East Germans did with Stasi informants (and that was like almost 2.5% of the population). They need to be made an example. This is how to prevent it from happening again, this is how to regain trust in the government.


I wish!  Booze Allen Hammilton is a contractor, they are not even the government.  It seems like EVERYONE has their spoon in our gumbo of freedom.  Tell them to STAY OUT!

Call your Representative / 2 Sentators (  http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml ) and tell them that we are AMERICA.  This is not EAST GERMANY!  We should not be spied on.

We already have the FBI/CIA to protect us and they do a DAMN GOOD JOB.  The NSAs PRISM must be stopped.  (Remember Batman... he stopped it)  Now it's your turn to PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY.

Use your VOICE and CALL YOUR GOVERNMENT.
They have nice staffers that will only ask your zip code and message to deliver.
 
2013-06-13 12:51:59 PM

The Voice of Doom: Mytch
If the program were being run by computer engineers who I would expect to have demonstrable knowledge of what is and is not metadata,
[..]
the line between meta-data and data suddenly disappears and they're reading your e-mail.

Especially because that line is literally just an empty line.

Or rather: two line-break characters.
An email is just a text where every line until the first empty line is treated as a header (example lines: "Subject: grow your privacy another 2 inches" or "From: longdong[[nospam-﹫-backwards] image 7x13]adiaqla[* image 7x13]org" ) and the text after that empty line is interpreted as the content .

So if you tap a line and want to collect email metadata, you pretty much have to store the email and throw away the content later or read and interpret the data in real time and then "tune out" when you see a sequence of two line breaks within an IP packet (..which might have contained a short email in its entirety already).

/btw,, since the "Subject" is a header line, you could consider it part of the metadata from a technical point of view


It is exactly this sort of technical difficulty that could very well put the PRISM program, as it has been described in the press, in questionable legal and 4th amendment grounds (although the latter is probably true even if they are just gathering metadata).

  If they are, in fact, capturing the actual content then throwing part of it away, "unread" you're getting int both a trust issue as well as a definitional issue akin to whether or not there is a sound if no one hears a tree fall in the woods.

I suspect that there are technical instances where, in fact, this line has been crossed, and that the nice guys at NSA will assure us that in their hearts they aren't crossing a bright line between what is legal and what isn't.  But, again, this is just speculation on my part.
 
2013-06-13 12:53:33 PM

NostroZ: Use your VOICE and CALL YOUR GOVERNMENT.
They have nice staffers that will only ask your zip code and message to deliver.


Metadata
 
2013-06-13 12:53:44 PM

uber humper: Short sightedness. They create an apparatus to prevent domestic dissension which creates more domestic dissension  which will intern will need a more sophisticated apparatus to contain.


Sorry, it's difficult to hear you over the noise of the gorillas killing the cheetas that I got to get rid of the anteaters I got to kill the ants
 
2013-06-13 12:59:17 PM
The government wants to take your "military style" weapons while monitoring all of your communication... it's almost like they're trying to trigger an armed rebellion.

elwoodin.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-06-13 01:00:10 PM

Cletus C.: STOP COMPLAINING
AND DO SOMETHING!

Losing, not loosing. Pet peeve.


Thank you for the correction; perfection is but a star on the horizon to which we forever strive to.
How is this?  We will not be LOSING our basic freedoms if more of us spoke up in times when said rights are clearly being violated.

The FOURTH AMENDMENT of our basic contract between the people and the government called the Constitution / Bill of Rights states:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Participate in something bigger than Fark, our Democracy!
Call your Senator / Representative and use your RIGHTS.
 
2013-06-13 01:00:14 PM

bunner: uber humper: Short sightedness. They create an apparatus to prevent domestic dissension which creates more domestic dissension  which will intern will need a more sophisticated apparatus to contain.

Sorry, it's difficult to hear you over the noise of the gorillas killing the cheetas that I got to get rid of the anteaters I got to kill the ants


that b*tched and itched and invaded your home. you got the ants to kill the fleas. So I guess your real solution would have been to stop making out with hobos?
 
2013-06-13 01:00:14 PM

NostroZ: I wish! Booze Allen Hammilton is a contractor, they are not even the government.


1.5 million people have top secret clearance. That's a lot of crazy boyfriends, people in deep debt looking for easy money, people with unstated foreign allegiances, and out right crazies,
 
2013-06-13 01:01:59 PM

tylerdurden217: uber humper: It's about misuse.  I remember the owner of a club I used to hang out at was jailed for bribing city and county officials in LV and San Diego.  The FBI used the Patriot Act to bust him.  http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/editorials/article/Time-to-fix-the-Patr i ot-Act-2717306.php  It's a slippery slope.  It starts like this case, becomes more and more common, then we will be in an absolute police state.

You've been wearing rose colored glasses if you think this is as far as it will go. It has to stop, and stop here.

Exactly. It's inevitable that the federal government decides that, in order to get more value out of all of the data that is collected, they start using it for other purposes. It IS NOT comforting to hear that out of all of the data that has been collected there have been handfuls (dozens?) of cases in which that has helped disrupt plots... as if they fight terrorism with a Philip K Dick style "precrime" system. So in other words, the ROI on the sacrifice of our civil liberties has been really farking low. That won't mean that they kill the program, but instead, add value to it by increasing its scope. Fark that.

Instead of dismantling the systems that the Bush administration put into place in the name of the War on Terror... Obama has further cemented it, building a strong foundation for future administrations to use it as they please. Well, at least due process is gone. Saves time when looking for a lawyer so you can just get better at Sudoku while you waste away your best years behind bars. But crime rates are down! It's working!

Jeeezus I'm paranoid.


Please, you think Bush started the surveillance state? This shiat has been going on since the NSA was founded, and probably before. Sure, it wasn't cell phones and internet, but only because those didn't exist yet.

This shiat was built, cemented and reinforced long before Obama. And there is nothing you, or anyone, can do about it, because anyone who HAS that kind of power is not going to give it up. Period.
 
2013-06-13 01:01:59 PM

Greil: that b*tched and itched and invaded your home. you got the ants to kill the fleas. So I guess your real solution would have been to stop making out with hobos?



:  /

:  \

:  |


So, do you grow your own, or is that a medical condition or a really crappy movie quote?
 
2013-06-13 01:02:27 PM

uber humper: NostroZ: I wish! Booze Allen Hammilton is a contractor, they are not even the government.

1.5 million people have top secret clearance. That's a lot of crazy boyfriends, people in deep debt looking for easy money, people with unstated foreign allegiances, and out right crazies,


Insane!  This is how ROME fell apart.  Allowing in 'contractors' (hired barbarian tribes) into their military.

Call your government. (http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml )
For now we STILL live in a Democracy, as a good person and a citizen it is your duty to do something about this.
 
2013-06-13 01:03:05 PM

uber humper: Booze Allen Hammilton is a contractor, they are not even the government.


Actually, this is the part of the whole thing that I am most uncomfortable with.  It seems we are subcontracting some of the craziest governmental functions, all for the greater good of "privatization".
 
2013-06-13 01:03:06 PM
 
2013-06-13 01:05:27 PM

mrexcess: There. Now you've seen it. Stop spouting bullshiat disinformation.


Think of it as an undisclosed case of herpes from that skanky chick at that furry con.
 
2013-06-13 01:06:02 PM

Skleenar: uber humper: Booze Allen Hammilton is a contractor, they are not even the government.

Actually, this is the part of the whole thing that I am most uncomfortable with.  It seems we are subcontracting some of the craziest governmental functions, all for the greater good of "privatization".


Many good ideas aren't feasible. It's nice to think that PRISM can keep us safe, but the side-effects make it a bad idea.
 
2013-06-13 01:08:22 PM

NostroZ: Insane! This is how ROME fell apart. Allowing in 'contractors' (hired barbarian tribes) into their military.


Well, actually, in large part it was allowing the conscription and recruitment of landless Roman subjects into the military, which set up a condition wherein a professional soldier caste was created that was, in turn (because of the way the Romans dealt with war booty) loyal to their officers instead of the Roman state.  Additionally you had the steady enrichment of the top elite class at the expense of the commoners which led to resentment and more and more landless men to enter into the private armies of those who would become claimants to the consulship or dictatorship.  And a whole lot more stuff.

At least that's how the republic fell apart.
 
2013-06-13 01:09:48 PM
bunner: But, but... I was told repeatedly that Twilight Sparkle was best pony! :(
 
2013-06-13 01:15:07 PM

dennysgod: Good luck NSA

[i86.photobucket.com image 400x264]

[I'm behind 7 proxies]

I hope your just trying to be ironic funny.  Proxies don't work if they are getting the information from your ISP.  Proxies only hide your IP from the server at the other end of your request. That data still has to go back through your isp to get to your computer.   If you really are using 7 proxies then they probably have already flagged you as someone to watch (I would if I was 'the man').
 
2013-06-13 01:15:37 PM

mrexcess: bunner: But, but... I was told repeatedly that Twilight Sparkle was best pony! :(


By that remark I'm guessing you're into CP. People into CP go to jail for the rest of their lives. Don't say anything else to get out attention or you will be investigated.
 
2013-06-13 01:16:00 PM

Skleenar: NostroZ: Insane! This is how ROME fell apart. Allowing in 'contractors' (hired barbarian tribes) into their military.

Well, actually, in large part it was allowing the conscription and recruitment of landless Roman subjects into the military, which set up a condition wherein a professional soldier caste was created that was, in turn (because of the way the Romans dealt with war booty) loyal to their officers instead of the Roman state.  Additionally you had the steady enrichment of the top elite class at the expense of the commoners which led to resentment and more and more landless men to enter into the private armies of those who would become claimants to the consulship or dictatorship.  And a whole lot more stuff.

At least that's how the republic fell apart.


Interesting.  My personal favorite is told by John Green & Crash Course World History - Fall of Rome.

Wouldn't we have similar problems with illegal immigration and also citizenship through military service?

And now, the wouldn't the private armies be Black Water / Xe and all the 'contractors' that rival in number of servicemen in our wars?
 
2013-06-13 01:17:43 PM

MonoChango: dennysgod: Good luck NSA

[i86.photobucket.com image 400x264] [I'm behind 7 proxies]

I hope your just trying to be ironic funny.  Proxies don't work if they are getting the information from your ISP.  Proxies only hide your IP from the server at the other end of your request. That data still has to go back through your isp to get to your computer.   If you really are using 7 proxies then they probably have already flagged you as someone to watch (I would if I was 'the man').


Tunnel man, tunnel.

SSH tunneling: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/ssh-tunneling-poor-techies-vpn
 
2013-06-13 01:17:47 PM

I_C_Weener: Biological Ali: I_C_Weener: fickenchucker: So?  Governments have always used interstate commerce as a way to enforce power.  Since the internet crosses many borders, why would anyone be surprised?  I always assumed they were reading anything they wanted.

"I'm farking your girlfriend.  But its cool.  I've always been farking her."

If the guy's "always been farking her", then she'd be his girlfriend. So it would indeed be "cool".

"I've been skimming money off your bank account.  But its cool, I've been doing it since you first got the account under the old bank's name."


More like "Since when did you think these things we allow to happen weren't being watched?"  To really think the government allows privacy is to think a student senate has any real power on a college campus.  The illusion keeps people happy, until they figure it out.

Welcome to adulthood, kids.
 
2013-06-13 01:21:07 PM

NostroZ: Wouldn't we have similar problems with illegal immigration and also citizenship through military service?


I never though about it, but it's scary.  The immigrant would have no allegiance to the people only the leadership. Most native born guys in the military wouldn't engage American citizens. I think there would be a much higher chance of a foreign born (who as never lived in the US) to attack American citizens.
 
2013-06-13 01:24:37 PM

mrexcess: Skleenar:

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called Prism, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

There. Now you've seen it. Stop spouting bullshiat disinformation.


That article doesn't seem to say what you think it says.  It says the Prism program has access to systems that allows them to obtain content data.  It doesn't say that the Prism program is taking this data as a normal course of operations.

It would be silly to have a system that does what Prism is purported to be that doesn't have the capability to capture content data, for at least two reasons:  First, the capability to capture metadata probably grants the capability to capture content, and second, the whole point of capturing and analyzing metadata is to identify content that you wish to scrutinize further.

Now, if things are being done on the "up-and-up", this further scrutiny is done subject to a warrant.
What you need to show is that this isn't being done, that content is being captured indiscriminately.  Maybe I haven't made this point clear enough and that's why you think I am lying or something.
 
2013-06-13 01:28:20 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Settle down, subby. Everyone knows you're looking at porn. Nobody cares.


I for one, have definitely been looking at the perfect posterior of a very famous porn star from the 80`s.
 
2013-06-13 01:28:33 PM
uber humper
By that remark I'm guessing you're into CP.

I fail to see what Captain Picard has to do with MLP:FIM, or why I should be imprisoned for liking the best Starfleet officer evar.
 
2013-06-13 01:34:07 PM
Skleenar
That article doesn't seem to say what you think it says. It says the Prism program has access to systems that allows them to obtain content data. It doesn't say that the Prism program is taking this data as a normal course of operations.

Dude... What? Do you actually work for the NSA? Or are just hoping to? What a bunch of dissembling bullshiat. "Access to systems that allow them to obtain content" but that doesn't somehow show that... They have access to content?!? Give me a break. You disputed initially that Prism had access to content, now you're moving the goalposts and saying that, well gee, of course it does, duh.

Yes, duh, of course it does. That's why what you claimed before was so egregious. Now quit trolling in the hopes of The Man letting you into the inner party.
 
2013-06-13 01:35:41 PM
Is Keith Alexander a traitor now too?
 
2013-06-13 01:36:22 PM
Didn't the NSA order a drone attack on the guy who leaked the info?
 
2013-06-13 01:38:04 PM

Agent 84: We can parse Arabic just fine. Klingon on the other hand-crap, said too much.


WTH is a hand-crap?  Uh, wait, no.  I don't want to know.
 
2013-06-13 01:38:32 PM
hobberwickey
Actually my dad had a good idea about this. If millions of people just put signature in their emails with a bunch of keywords like "bomb, terror, infidels, etc..." we could basically DDOS their search algorithms and render the whole thing useless. Anyone want to pass this along to Anonymous?


I think that idea is about as old as the idea of email surveillance itself.
Or at least a old as "fortune".
fortune is a nice little "fortune-telling" program that selects and prints a random quotation from a collection of quotes each time you call the program.
Some people have connected fortune to their ".signature" file (= the file that gets appended as your mail signature by many Unix/Linux mailers), so each mail they send contains a random quotation out of their favorite quotes collection.
Since then all you have had to do to pepper an email signature with terror keywords is to use that existing setup and change the collection of quotes.

/but it's also pretty easy to detect and ignore emails where most if not all of the interesting words appear in the last line(s) of the mail
 
2013-06-13 01:39:22 PM
Have a good day kiddos.

I have to make some money so I can give a little more than half of it to the government who spies on me.
 
2013-06-13 01:41:08 PM

mrexcess: disinformation.


From your article:


The program facilitates extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information. The law allows for the targeting of any customers of participating firms who live outside the US, or those Americans whose communications include people outside the US.
I think this is what the NSA has always been able to do, legally. And certainly since Bush's warrantless wiretapping program was brought to light and then retroactively made legal.
It also opens the possibility of communications made entirely within the US being collected without warrants.
This is my point. They aren't saying this is being done, just that it could be.
 
2013-06-13 01:43:07 PM

skullkrusher: Is Keith Alexander a traitor now too?


9/11

As a one-star general, Alexander headed the Army Intelligence and Security Command, where in 2001 he was in charge of 10,700 spies and eavesdroppers worldwide. In the words of James Bamford who wrote his biography for Wired, "Alexander and the rest of the American intelligence community suffered a devastating defeat when they were surprised by the attacks on 9/11." Alexander's reaction was to order his intercept operators to begin to illegally monitor the email and phone calls of American citizens who were unrelated to terrorist threats, including the personal calls of journalists

I would say no, but traitor doesn't seem to mean anything anymore, well maybe "I don't like you"
 
2013-06-13 01:45:07 PM

mrexcess: You disputed initially that Prism had access to content


No, I disputed that the articles I had seen indicated that content was being read or stored, regularly, without warrant.
 
2013-06-13 01:45:12 PM
Skleenar
This is my point. They aren't saying this is being done, just that it could be.

Functional difference here is thin to nonexistent. "Oh, gee, China must have hacked into our server. Sorry that activist got his information leaked! Wasn't us. We'll do better we promise. But don't ask us how, Mr. Congressman, because we'll have to lie to you about that, the President told us so."

This is what you're defending. Stop. Stop being a tool.
 
2013-06-13 01:47:56 PM
Skleenar: You, sir, are a credulous farking liar.

But so far, it has not been about tapping US persons comm content, at least to my knowledge.

No, I disputed that the articles I had seen indicated that content was being read or stored, regularly, without warrant.


Derp.
 
2013-06-13 01:48:26 PM

The Voice of Doom: hobberwickey
Actually my dad had a good idea about this. If millions of people just put signature in their emails with a bunch of keywords like "bomb, terror, infidels, etc..." we could basically DDOS their search algorithms and render the whole thing useless. Anyone want to pass this along to Anonymous?

I think that idea is about as old as the idea of email surveillance itself.
Or at least a old as "fortune".
fortune is a nice little "fortune-telling" program that selects and prints a random quotation from a collection of quotes each time you call the program.
Some people have connected fortune to their ".signature" file (= the file that gets appended as your mail signature by many Unix/Linux mailers), so each mail they send contains a random quotation out of their favorite quotes collection.
Since then all you have had to do to pepper an email signature with terror keywords is to use that existing setup and change the collection of quotes.

/but it's also pretty easy to detect and ignore emails where most if not all of the interesting words appear in the last line(s) of the mail


Right, but if they start ignoring the signatures then it'd be easy to slip past the filters by just putting everything in the filter and filling the email body with "hi, how's your aunt doing?" Not saying it's a fool proof plan, but at least it's a way to mess with them a bit.
 
2013-06-13 01:50:14 PM

Walker: Just assume the Feds see everything you do....then start masturbating furiously.

/business as usual then


Preaching to the choir.
 
2013-06-13 01:55:20 PM

mrexcess: Skleenar
This is my point. They aren't saying this is being done, just that it could be.

Functional difference here is thin to nonexistent. "Oh, gee, China must have hacked into our server. Sorry that activist got his information leaked! Wasn't us. We'll do better we promise. But don't ask us how, Mr. Congressman, because we'll have to lie to you about that, the President told us so."

This is what you're defending. Stop. Stop being a tool.


Not only is there a difference, I've even pointed out a reason why they might not feel it is necessary to read everyone's e-mails:  That they can use the metadata to winnow out all of the uninteresting stuff and just get to the stuff that's of interest.  This is probably far more efficient than trying to capture and analyze EVERYTHING.

Now there is plenty of room for abuse even with that qualification, and it greatly depends upon how the data is used and what is being targeted.  I'm not saying that there is no way it can be abused, I even said above that I think it probably is.

Now you can continue building this strawman you desperately want to defeat, or you can listen to what I actually am saying.  It's up to you, though.
 
2013-06-13 01:56:30 PM

mrexcess: Skleenar: You, sir, are a credulous farking liar.

But so far, it has not been about tapping US persons comm content, at least to my knowledge.

No, I disputed that the articles I had seen indicated that content was being read or stored, regularly, without warrant.

Derp.


You're kidding, right?  Those statements are entirely consistent.
 
2013-06-13 02:02:33 PM
Hey buddy, Thor never said nothing about protecting us from wiretapping. You can't make me renounce my drunken gods.
 
2013-06-13 02:04:02 PM

The_Original_Roxtar: The government wants to take your "military style" weapons while monitoring all of your communication... it's almost like they're trying to trigger an armed rebellion.

[elwoodin.files.wordpress.com image 469x813]


Good luck with that. They can easily know who you talk to, what you say, where you say it, and can vaporize you with a drone before you even know it's coming.

If the government goes full oppression, there is FARK ALL any of us can do about it. Period.
 
2013-06-13 02:08:11 PM
If we all just click on this link, then we will all be on the list and the list will be meaningless.
 
2013-06-13 02:12:08 PM
AWESOME COLLECTION OF FASHIONABLE, UNNOTICEABLE TOP QUALITY PERSONAL FOIL HATS FOR SALE, EIP.


/no EIP.
 
2013-06-13 02:16:24 PM
Has anyone considered that the government has unleashed douchenozzles to send discussions of this issue on fark and elsewhere into the toilet?

No, not YOU.
 
2013-06-13 02:16:29 PM
once upon  a time ...

a man went for a walk in the woods ... he was Shocked, SHOCKED ! i tell you ...to find that people could follow his foot prints.


/ old news is old news
 
2013-06-13 02:26:02 PM

Skleenar: mrexcess: Skleenar: You, sir, are a credulous farking liar.

But so far, it has not been about tapping US persons comm content, at least to my knowledge.

No, I disputed that the articles I had seen indicated that content was being read or stored, regularly, without warrant.

Derp.

You're kidding, right?  Those statements are entirely consistent.


Oh, wait.  Is it your position that since the first statement doens't have the words "without warrant" my position through this discussion is that the NSA wasn't tapping US citizen's communications at all?  Because if that is what you think I was saying, a quick read through my comments would show you that I have been maintaining the position that I fully suggest that they are not only doing so, they are claiming that they are doing so, and that the justification for this is that they are doing it with warrants (FISA or other) and that the pretext for this is in large part developed by the analysis of the metadata that is gathered wholesale, without warrant, in the PRISM program.

Are we cool now?
 
2013-06-13 02:36:55 PM
Skleenar: At this point I'm comfortable just letting the readers examine our statements and assign credibility as they decide.
 
2013-06-13 02:39:13 PM
Skleenar: PRISM does not collect only metadata. It collects and archives communications content, without a warrant.
 
2013-06-13 02:39:53 PM
www.explosm.net
/also the filename
 
2013-06-13 02:46:29 PM

mrexcess: Skleenar: PRISM does not collect only metadata. It collects and archives communications content, without a warrant.


This statement, whether true or not, has not been supported by anything that you have linked to.
 
2013-06-13 02:48:08 PM

Skleenar: This statement, whether true or not, has not been supported by anything that you have linked to.


Or, to be absolutely accurate, I have not seen where this is supported in anything you have linked to.

If you wish to point out where this is supported, I'm happy to review it.
 
2013-06-13 02:53:36 PM

Skleenar: Skleenar: This statement, whether true or not, has not been supported by anything that you have linked to.

Or, to be absolutely accurate, I have not seen where this is supported in anything you have linked to.*

If you wish to point out where this is supported, I'm happy to review it.


* as regards US persons and domestic communications.

Again, another caveat.  The NSA has been doing exactly what you claim to non-US communications for decades, with full support of all three branches of the gov't.  The newest wrinkle was the revelation of domestic information gathering without warrant during the Bush years.  This was retroactively made legal and purportedly is now subject to FISA warrants.
 
2013-06-13 02:59:18 PM
Skleenar
This statement, whether true or not, has not been supported by anything that you have linked to.

Of course you say that with the full knowledge that the link I provided earlier does just that. I'm done with you. If you want to continue making false claims I'll correct them, but I have better things to do than go back and forth with someone so credulously and visibly dissembling and straw-grasping.
 
2013-06-13 03:06:32 PM

LordJiro: The_Original_Roxtar: The government wants to take your "military style" weapons while monitoring all of your communication... it's almost like they're trying to trigger an armed rebellion.

[elwoodin.files.wordpress.com image 469x813]

Good luck with that. They can easily know who you talk to, what you say, where you say it, and can vaporize you with a drone before you even know it's coming.

If the government goes full oppression, there is FARK ALL any of us can do about it. Period.


yeah, unless there is some large portion of the military that defects to the side of the rebels, any rebellion is doomed... leaving you with the choice of living like a slave or dying like a patriot.
 
2013-06-13 03:09:38 PM
This is funny, a bank robber wants NSA surveillance records for his defense.  If it could be used to free an innocent man, should it be released?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/fl-phone-records-fisa-broward-20 13 0612,0,2599646.story
 
2013-06-13 03:14:30 PM

LordJiro: If the government goes full oppression, there is FARK ALL any of us can do about it. Period.


Most people in the military would not point help the goverment disarm citizens.  Most of those soldiers believe in the right to bear arms. They would need to recruit some of these hardcore anti-gun people I see floating around here.

300,000,000 civilian guns, 300,000,000 civilians vs an army who wouldn't want to fight.
 
2013-06-13 03:26:04 PM

trappedspirit: If we all just click on this link, then we will all be on the list and the list will be meaningless.


Is that Rick Astley, or Tub Girl?  Either way, me no clicky.
 
2013-06-13 03:30:35 PM
I hope people actually read what the NSA chief said during his testimony.  He wants to be transparent with the public, he wants to share as much as he safely can about the programs so we as citizens can better understand the situation, the mission, and its effectiveness.  I know a lot of people distrust the NSA, but seriously, of all the agencies - they're the least political.
 
2013-06-13 03:42:24 PM
uber humper
This is funny, a bank robber wants NSA surveillance records for his defense.

Actually a very interesting case. The defendant claims that phone records would provide him an alibi, but the phone company had already deleted them. The government claimed that they had no way to provide that information. If the government had deliberately withheld exculpatory evidence in someone's felony trial, that's a pretty serious thing.

Of course they could claim that the information was unavailable due to national security demands, and our limp courts would probably buy that. But now these programs are public information, not secret, and providing the info would seem to be necessary.
 
2013-06-13 03:43:57 PM
They only do it to keep your Freedom loving asses Free.  and don't forget, you can always trust a Government Of, By, and For Big Business/Wealthy.


Cheers!
 
2013-06-13 03:45:20 PM

basemetal: It's for the children, citizen, don't you care about all the children this will save?

/we know what's best for you
//you can trust us


Sex!!
Do it for the Children.
 
2013-06-13 03:46:12 PM
DeathByGeekSquad
I know a lot of people distrust the NSA, but seriously, of all the agencies - they're the least political

Maybe the distrust has something to do with the way they lie to the public and even to Congress about what they do, without ever being held accountable? I mean, isn't that sort of deserving of distrust?

And as for their being a-political, how do we actually know that? It's not like the public gets to scrutinize their behavior in a way that would allow us to form an independent judgement. We're just supposed to Trust Them(tm), I guess? Even though they're known liars?
 
2013-06-13 03:47:15 PM
Just wait until they start wiretapping your commode.  that will be embarrassing.
 
2013-06-13 03:47:33 PM

mrexcess: Skleenar
This statement, whether true or not, has not been supported by anything that you have linked to.

Of course you say that with the full knowledge that the link I provided earlier does just that. I'm done with you. If you want to continue making false claims I'll correct them, but I have better things to do than go back and forth with someone so credulously and visibly dissembling and straw-grasping.


I'm pretty sure you're misreading the link you posted.  And I've already explained above, with a citation from the article, why that's the case.  If you wish to show me exactly how I've misread the words that I quoted, please go ahead.  But to simply call me a liar again and again really isn't proving your point.

And here's the thing--I really think we're closer on this issue than you seem to think.  However, I think that you've now vested yourself in a position where I'm a bad guy, and are loathe to re-evaluate that.
 
2013-06-13 03:50:36 PM

Linux_Yes: They only do it to keep your Freedom loving asses Free.  and don't forget, you can always trust a Government Of, By, and For Big Business/Wealthy.


Cheers!



We cannot allow the government to have the power that it does, and we cannot allow the government to give the large corporations the money/power. The mega-corporations are the size that they are because of government help -- whether it by contracts, policy, or cash.

You got part of the answer in your handle. Open source is where it's at. Government can't influence open source, open source keeps the big companies out of the loop.
 
2013-06-13 04:07:01 PM

trappedspirit: Bombs, ricin, drones, governtment overthrow, pressure cooker, false flag, OWS, anarchist, guns, treason, allah, bronies.

There, now this thread is monitored.

/you're welcome


drones, attack, supreme court boobies.
 
2013-06-13 04:10:55 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?


I can't speak for everyone of course, but I wasn't outraged then because I, perhaps foolishly, believed them when they said they were only collecting metadata and searching the metadata for patterns.  Then last week I find that they are actually collecting personally identifiable data that can easily reveal information about a person's home, work, friends, family, habits, group memberships, politics, and health.

There is a huge difference between collecting data and collecting metadata, a despite the repeated statements from government officials they are collecting data, not metadata.  Data is information about a person or device.  Metadata is information about the data that a person or device is looking for, without the information actually received as a result of the request for information.   Maybe some examples would make the difference clear.

Take Verizon for example we know that the collect source phone #, destination phone#, physical location, and duration of call.  Just looking at this, even if we didn't know anything about about Verizon or the devices it connected to, we could discover the following:
*    Verizon is some involved in connecting phones ( the source and destination #)
*    The phones are mobile (the physical location field is not fixed, it changes)
*    This connection is limited in some way (they care how long the connection lasts)

The NSA is collecting the actual data from each call made with this information they could easily determine:
*     Where you live (calls between 9pm and 6am are made from this location)
*     Where you work (calls made 8am to 4pm are made from this location)
*     your path to and from work (calls made 7-8am and 4-5pm along this path)
*     friends, family, coworkers (from numbers called and when they were made, the 1st call on Mothers day is mom, call made from the road at 8:10 am monday is your boss, Call at 2:15 am Saturday is your ex)
*     personal habits, (calls on friday and saturday nights are made from a bar)
etc

Now there is legitimate metadata from cell phones that could have been useful.  When a cell phone is turned on it sends out a signal searching for the nearest tower.  The fact that the cell phone is searching for a tower is metadata, and could possibly be useful.  If for example, after analysis they determined that there were a group of 12 cell phones in New York that were only active from 3pm til 4pm every other Tuesday, that could indicate a cell of terrorists using burner phones for regularly scheduled communications.  They could then obtain a warrant to look into the matter further.

Similarly if they determine that someone is searching google for the terms "New York City", "Obama General Assembly visit", "Sarin Gas", "Bulk Chemistry Supplies", and "Ryder Truck Rental" someone should get a search warrant and find out who he is and what he is up to.
 
2013-06-13 04:14:22 PM

HK-MP5-SD: IdBeCrazyIf: I still don't understand how NOW it's an issue when this shiat was leaked back in 2006 when they were setting up data capture rooms in the various ISP fiber backbone hubs?

Can anyone explain why now we're outraged when we weren't then?

I can't speak for everyone of course, but I wasn't outraged then because I, perhaps foolishly, believed them when they said they were only collecting metadata and searching the metadata for patterns.  Then last week I find that they are actually collecting personally identifiable data that can easily reveal information about a person's home, work, friends, family, habits, group memberships, politics, and health.

There is a huge difference between collecting data and collecting metadata, a despite the repeated statements from government officials they are collecting data, not metadata.  Data is information about a person or device.  Metadata is information about the data that a person or device is looking for, without the information actually received as a result of the request for information.   Maybe some examples would make the difference clear.

Take Verizon for example we know that the collect source phone #, destination phone#, physical location, and duration of call.  Just looking at this, even if we didn't know anything about about Verizon or the devices it connected to, we could discover the following:
*    Verizon is some involved in connecting phones ( the source and destination #)
*    The phones are mobile (the physical location field is not fixed, it changes)
*    This connection is limited in some way (they care how long the connection lasts)

The NSA is collecting the actual data from each call made with this information they could easily determine:
*     Where you live (calls between 9pm and 6am are made from this location)
*     Where you work (calls made 8am to 4pm are made from this location)
*     your path to and from work (calls made 7-8am and 4-5pm along this path)
*     friends, family, coworker ...


So you're saying that the meta data is not the data itself but the metadata is so compete it creates a "negative" of the data?
 
2013-06-13 04:28:31 PM

rudemix: Before it is all said and done there will be government officials filing for work comp due to disabilities suffered while reading the thoughts and preferences of their fellow citizens on the intranets. I hope mine some how contribute to that.


Basically my take on this.

/Because we're not fixing this anytime soon, so I damn well hope they read all my emails.
//Specifically, the teen-girl fantasy porn my friend and I have been writing this summer.
///U totes jelly, bro
 
2013-06-13 04:34:56 PM

PsiChick: /Because we're not fixing this anytime soon, so I damn well hope they read all my emails.
//Specifically, the teen-girl fantasy porn my friend and I have been writing this summer.
///U totes jelly, bro


thecityfix.com
^ Your profile click meter
 
2013-06-13 04:37:48 PM

Point02GPA: Every once in a while a 50-60 yo undelivered letter/postcard appears. I wonder what the oldest undelivered email will contain?



Final-Recipient: XXX.XXX.XXXAction: failedStatus: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)Remote-MTA: dns; [000.00.000.000]Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 553-'sorry, this recipient is in my badrecipientto list (#5.7.1)' (delivery attempts: 0)
 
2013-06-13 04:37:49 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: /Because we're not fixing this anytime soon, so I damn well hope they read all my emails.
//Specifically, the teen-girl fantasy porn my friend and I have been writing this summer.
///U totes jelly, bro

[thecityfix.com image 306x229]
^ Your profile click meter

 ...Is at zero?
 
2013-06-13 04:39:29 PM

PsiChick: ...Is at zero?


It's rolling over.  Sheesh.
 
2013-06-13 04:41:17 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: ...Is at zero?

It's rolling over.  Sheesh.


You're trying to explain car stuff to a chick.
 
2013-06-13 04:46:11 PM

ReverendJynxed: You're trying to explain car stuff to a chick.


I didn't laugh at that.  Because it's not funny.

At all.
 
2013-06-13 04:51:15 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: ...Is at zero?

It's rolling over.  Sheesh.


Ah.

...I did not know they could do that.

ReverendJynxed: Skleenar: PsiChick: ...Is at zero?

It's rolling over.  Sheesh.

You're trying to explain car stuff to a chick.


If you drive so fast your spedometor does that, you're going to end up in a flaming wreck pretty soon. Just sayin'.

/And out here, we have basically the American version of the Autobahn, so I don't say that lightly
//But really. Beware of trees. Or pebbles. Or rain.
 
2013-06-13 05:01:42 PM

PsiChick: If you drive so fast your spedometor does that, you're going to end up in a flaming wreck pretty soon. Just sayin'.


The spedometer reads 0 mph.

Just sayin'.

But if you wanted to excerpt some of that writing project you're working on in this thread, I'm all eyes.
 
2013-06-13 05:02:27 PM
Oh, now I get it.

Look at the odometer.  Not the speedometer.
 
2013-06-13 05:07:04 PM

Skleenar: ^ Your profile click meter


Doubtfull. She is fat, stupid, and claims to be psychic.

PsiChick: If you drive so fast your spedometor does that, you're going to end up in a flaming wreck pretty soon. Just sayin'.


See ^ for proof of the stupid part. Even girls should know the difference between a spedometer and an odometer.

Skleenar: It's rolling over.


Although you should know better too. "Rolling over" means going from 999999.9 to 000000.0.
 
2013-06-13 05:08:04 PM
Gah *doubtful
 
2013-06-13 05:13:25 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: If you drive so fast your spedometor does that, you're going to end up in a flaming wreck pretty soon. Just sayin'.

The spedometer reads 0 mph.

Just sayin'.

But if you wanted to excerpt some of that writing project you're working on in this thread, I'm all eyes.


Ah. Okay, now I see it.

And no, you aren't, it's really pathetic. But hey, I spend my summer hanging out with a friend, it's fun.
 
2013-06-13 05:16:41 PM

umad: spedometer


Those short-bus specific?
 
2013-06-13 05:21:34 PM

ReverendJynxed: umad: spedometer

Those short-bus specific?


[sic]

I wrote it that way because they kept doing it.
 
2013-06-13 05:25:57 PM

umad: Although you should know better too. "Rolling over" means going from 999999.9 to 000000.0.


I thought it was close enough.  But point taken.
 
2013-06-13 05:26:12 PM

mrexcess: Skleenar
That article doesn't seem to say what you think it says. It says the Prism program has access to systems that allows them to obtain content data. It doesn't say that the Prism program is taking this data as a normal course of operations.

Dude... What? Do you actually work for the NSA? Or are just hoping to? What a bunch of dissembling bullshiat. "Access to systems that allow them to obtain content" but that doesn't somehow show that... They have access to content?!? Give me a break. You disputed initially that Prism had access to content, now you're moving the goalposts and saying that, well gee, of course it does, duh.

Yes, duh, of course it does. That's why what you claimed before was so egregious. Now quit trolling in the hopes of The Man letting you into the inner party.


Well of course they're methodically recording all content. But they would never look at it without a specific warrant!

Or something. The next shoe will be the disclosure that yes, they are routinely recording all domestic phone calls. But they would never look at that data!
 
2013-06-13 05:26:47 PM

mrexcess: DeathByGeekSquad
I know a lot of people distrust the NSA, but seriously, of all the agencies - they're the least political

Maybe the distrust has something to do with the way they lie to the public and even to Congress about what they do, without ever being held accountable? I mean, isn't that sort of deserving of distrust?

And as for their being a-political, how do we actually know that? It's not like the public gets to scrutinize their behavior in a way that would allow us to form an independent judgement. We're just supposed to Trust Them(tm), I guess? Even though they're known liars?


Go read The Secret Sentry, and get back to me.
 
2013-06-13 05:29:45 PM

umad: ReverendJynxed: umad: spedometer

Those short-bus specific?

[sic]

I wrote it that way because they kept doing it.


I know, I just thought you were the better person to ask because my only options were the chick and the humorless.

/0 - to potato
 
2013-06-13 05:32:07 PM

ReverendJynxed: humorless.


You must have missed my sarcastrophe.
 
2013-06-13 05:44:56 PM

Skleenar: PsiChick: /Because we're not fixing this anytime soon, so I damn well hope they read all my emails.
//Specifically, the teen-girl fantasy porn my friend and I have been writing this summer.
///U totes jelly, bro

[thecityfix.com image 306x229]
^ Your profile click meter


Speedometer? More like a pedometer

howdidyoudoit.files.wordpress.com
/Surprised no one made that joke with Sandusky.  Maybe someone did, who knows
 
2013-06-13 05:46:58 PM

Skleenar: ReverendJynxed: humorless.

You must have missed my sarcastrophe.


With how the whole thing played out is it any wonder?

It's like the sarcasmometer was replaced with a spedometer.
 
2013-06-13 06:49:56 PM
On on 27 February 1933, the German Reichstag burned to the ground and was blamed on "communists" and a trial ensued.  The Nazi party capitalized upon this to pass the Enabling Act. The Enabling Act was a special law which gave the Chancellor the power to pass laws by decree without the involvement of the Reichstag.  Even a cursory glimpse at the events that followed will lend credence to the notion that circumventing the articles of your own government, and laying all wealth and power at the feet of a small block of people who are demanding it, isn't a useful solution to anything.  We're not watching the future, we're watching a rerun.
 
2013-06-13 07:53:34 PM

uber humper: Linux_Yes: They only do it to keep your Freedom loving asses Free.  and don't forget, you can always trust a Government Of, By, and For Big Business/Wealthy.


Cheers!


We cannot allow the government to have the power that it does, and we cannot allow the government to give the large corporations the money/power. The mega-corporations are the size that they are because of government help -- whether it by contracts, policy, or cash.

You got part of the answer in your handle. Open source is where it's at. Government can't influence open source, open source keeps the big companies out of the loop.


i don't know if Open Source can undo the monster grip that big business/wealthy have on our government.  humans will always be selfish and greedy.  we may be too far down that narrowing road to turn around.  no one said our way of life will last. things could be alot worse in 20 years. this might only be the beginning of a Monster State owned by Capital.
 
2013-06-13 07:57:16 PM
 
2013-06-14 12:21:22 AM

Linux_Yes: uber humper: Linux_Yes: They only do it to keep your Freedom loving asses Free.  and don't forget, you can always trust a Government Of, By, and For Big Business/Wealthy.


Cheers!


We cannot allow the government to have the power that it does, and we cannot allow the government to give the large corporations the money/power. The mega-corporations are the size that they are because of government help -- whether it by contracts, policy, or cash.

You got part of the answer in your handle. Open source is where it's at. Government can't influence open source, open source keeps the big companies out of the loop.

i don't know if Open Source can undo the monster grip that big business/wealthy have on our government.  humans will always be selfish and greedy.  we may be too far down that narrowing road to turn around.  no one said our way of life will last. things could be alot worse in 20 years. this might only be the beginning of a Monster State owned by Capital.


It looks like you're making a false dichotomy in that: the world is controlled by big government or controlled by big business. Big government and big business are opposite sides of the same coin.  The opposite of both is freedom. Stop allowing government to influence businesses, that's when imbalances in the market happen. And stop allowing business to influence government.

The top 1% having so much power is bad,  in a government controlled society even fewer people hold the power.  It's not money people are after -- it is power.  It's about the resources they control, not the resources they own.
 
2013-06-14 03:54:42 AM
This Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary.

Obama, 2007
 
2013-06-14 04:33:53 AM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: It's just metadata, so I don't see what the big deal is. I mean, my phone takes pictures with metadata embedded, and all it does is record the time the picture was taken, the exact location, the name of my phone, my name, and... Dear lord...


you are really tempting me to godwin this thread, dude...
 
2013-06-14 04:41:48 AM

SpdrJay: I think it's good that people are learning to joke about this situation that is already way out of their control.


I dont know, Russia used to be almost this bad, then Gorbachev came along.  Perhaps we need a our own Gorbachev.
 
2013-06-14 05:21:43 AM

ghostwind: you are really tempting me to godwin this thread, dude


It's not actually a law.  It was a witty remark based on a humorous observation.  I suppose it's nice to try and find some deep meaning and absolutes in tree house, pinkie swear rules, but it's all they are.
 
2013-06-14 06:10:13 AM
Can we at least, after a review of this thread, start packing up the FARK partisan hack trolls and quit pretending that the sock puppet on one hand is going to be a better choice than the one on the other hand?  That delusion's ass is not only hanging out, it needs some perfume.
 
2013-06-14 06:20:28 AM

I sound fat: SpdrJay: I think it's good that people are learning to joke about this situation that is already way out of their control.

I dont know, Russia used to be almost this bad, then Gorbachev came along.  Perhaps we need a our own Gorbachev.


We didn't win the cold war.  We traded shoes that fit edible food and jeans for their playbook.  Morning in America, my ass.
 
2013-06-14 06:11:20 PM

Thunderpipes: Insaniteus: I hate how all of these "revelations" just keep telling us stuff that we've known about for 10 freaking years.

It's just an attempt to pin this whole process on Obama, despite him actually getting the court and Congressional approval for every search (Which W refused to do).  There are seriously people right now that are furious and horrified that Obama is spying on Americans through the courts, who didn't give one rat's half-eaten ass about Bush doing all of that and more illegally and without the slightest shred of oversight.

I have a theory that nothing pisses off a Republican more than when Obama adopts a Republican policy (This, Health care mandate, Amnesty, TSA, Drone strikes, closed-door meetings, etc).

What did Bush do, Exactly?

Excuses for Obama the Messiah, imagine that.


tenpoundsofcheese: sendtodave: tenpoundsofcheese: sendtodave: netweavr: This is like Gay Rights. The older generation is upset and despondent that they exist. The younger generation doesn't care.

The older generation will die off and this "scandal" will disappear.

Really?

The government  Democrats spying on it's own people is, like, totally cool?

FTFY.

You can't have a good nanny state and a nanny to take care of you if she doesn't know what trouble you are about to get in.

You know, I dislike you.  Severely.

No, I didn't know that.

But I can't fathom any reason people would defend this,or call for Snowden's head, other than for love of the (current) government.

Weird huh?  There are people so in love with the current government that no matter what they do, people defend it.
Next step is that people who criticize this will be called racists.


Why is that only the right wing tool brigade thinks there is some unquestioning fealty to gov't in general and O in particular by libs? Most libbys seem to have no problem biatching about the shortcomings of the administration. You are confusing your own total lack of ability to think critically about anything that even remotely resembles or represents your own closed minded, simplistic, trite, pathetic, myopic, hateful and frightened world view with what the rest of us do. Namely, supporting a general movement forward while quite openly being critical of misguided policies.

/Oh, and yes, you are a racist. Not b/c of this, but b/c all the other hateful crap you spew
//Now let me get back to praying with my Rosary Obama Beads
 
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