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(Telegraph)   Embrace your inner sociopath for a better life for all. Well, no. But for you, sure   (blogs.telegraph.co.uk) divider line 129
    More: Scary, Patrick Bateman, Make It, silent majority, sociopaths  
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10417 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jun 2013 at 3:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-12 03:05:55 PM
I did 28 years ago. i never sit in my basement alone and have a plethora of great friends!
 
2013-06-12 03:08:27 PM
It may not be good for society, but business runs on sociopathy at the higher levels..
 
2013-06-12 03:09:31 PM
They tend to frown on you driving across three states wearing a woman's head as a hat
 
2013-06-12 03:10:27 PM
i have to return some videotapes
 
2013-06-12 03:11:32 PM
You would not realise that she is studying you to find your flaws, that she is ruthlessly manipulative, has no empathy and does not feel guilt or remorse. But she does like people - she likes to touch them, mould them and ruin them.

mtvhive.mtvnimages.com
 
2013-06-12 03:12:50 PM
Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.
 
2013-06-12 03:13:30 PM
Rule 106:  There is no honor in poverty
Rule 113:  Always have sex with the boss
Rule 242:  more is good, all is better
Rule 51: never admit a mistake if there is someone else to blame

/and so on
 
2013-06-12 03:13:53 PM

Somaticasual: It may not be good for society, but business runs on sociopathy at the higher levels..


And government, and seemingly any group of humans larger than, say, 20.
 
2013-06-12 03:14:34 PM
 
2013-06-12 03:15:00 PM

Somaticasual: It may not be good for society, but business runs on sociopathy at the higher levels..


In his book Snakes in Suits, Dr. Hare foresaw the problem that corporations might use the psychopathy checklist he developed to recruit them rather than screen them.
 
2013-06-12 03:16:02 PM

AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.


I disagree. It's given out too easily but still attached to people with no regard for anyone else. However these are mostly assholes. Not actual sociopaths.
 
2013-06-12 03:17:34 PM

Decillion: AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.

I disagree. It's given out too easily but still attached to people with no regard for anyone else. However these are mostly assholes. Not actual sociopaths.


Spectrum of sociopathy? Or do you have to have 0 empathy to qualify?
 
2013-06-12 03:17:45 PM
Really, all that makes them at all interesting IS the fact that not many people know about them and what they are. Once they are well known, they will be less interesting than the average person.
 
2013-06-12 03:17:47 PM
FTFA:

Confessions of a Sociopath says that "one in twenty five of us are sociopaths". Yeah, and I think I've probably dated them all. The figure is patently inflated,

No one really knows the frequency of psychopathy in the population, but 1 in 25 is a pretty standard estimate. There's no reason to believe it's "wildly inflated." One researcher estimated 1 in 3 among the males.
 
2013-06-12 03:18:09 PM
lucien0maverick.files.wordpress.com

approves.
 
2013-06-12 03:18:33 PM

Decillion: AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.

I disagree. It's given out too easily but still attached to people with no regard for anyone else. However these are mostly assholes. Not actual sociopaths.


This is true

An asshole will forget a date with you, a sociopath will purposely not go so they can get it on with someone else, then lie about where they were and guilt you into feeling sorry for them.

An asshole won't pay you back money, a sociopath will manipulate you to feel sorry for them so you feel obligated to ask them not to pay back.

I could keep going, but I say this as a confirmed true sociopath.
 
2013-06-12 03:22:06 PM

AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.


"Psychopath" and "sociopath" are not now and have never been clinical diagnoses. Not in the United States, anyway.

"Psychopath" is more often used in a legal context to determine how the state will treat certain offenders. Some states have, for example, "sexual psychopath" laws which, if an offender meets the statutory definition of it, mandate harsher treatment for them than for other offenders.

I'm not aware of the use of "sociopath" in any legal context.
 
2013-06-12 03:24:03 PM

Decillion: AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.

I disagree. It's given out too easily but still attached to people with no regard for anyone else. However these are mostly assholes. Not actual sociopaths.


I read your response multiple times and can only conclude that you agree with me.

And possibly don't understand the meaning of disagree.
 
2013-06-12 03:24:40 PM
 
2013-06-12 03:24:44 PM
If the author's problem with sociopaths is that they don't recognize an objective moral system, he has a problem with a lot more people than he thinks.  That's a philosophical position that is not all that frightening.
 
2013-06-12 03:27:35 PM
FTFA: 1. Claim there are a lot more people like this than you previously thought. Confessions of a Sociopath says that "one in twenty five of us are sociopaths". Yeah, and I think I've probably dated them all. The figure is patently inflated, but it succeeds in giving the impression that being a psycho is no stranger than having dyslexia or a bad knee.

I used to be a normal person, like you, but then a sociopath put an arrow in my knee.
 
2013-06-12 03:28:59 PM

bugontherug: AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.

"Psychopath" and "sociopath" are not now and have never been clinical diagnoses. Not in the United States, anyway.

"Psychopath" is more often used in a legal context to determine how the state will treat certain offenders. Some states have, for example, "sexual psychopath" laws which, if an offender meets the statutory definition of it, mandate harsher treatment for them than for other offenders.

I'm not aware of the use of "sociopath" in any legal context.


It was in DSM IV as Antisocial Personality Disorder.
 
2013-06-12 03:29:28 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: An asshole will forget a date with you, a sociopath will purposely not go so they can get it on with someone else, then lie about where they were and guilt you into feeling sorry for them.


The most dangerous sociopaths would not go as part of a campaign to lower your self-esteem to make you more easy to manipulate. A campaign enhanced both by an intuitive grasp and studied understanding of human psychology.
 
2013-06-12 03:30:15 PM
I'd rather not, particularly after reading The Psychpath Test. People who are pathologically manipulative and incapable of empathy are terrifying.
 
2013-06-12 03:30:59 PM
*psychopath - doh!
 
2013-06-12 03:32:07 PM

bugontherug: FTFA:

Confessions of a Sociopath says that "one in twenty five of us are sociopaths". Yeah, and I think I've probably dated them all. The figure is patently inflated,

No one really knows the frequency of psychopathy in the population, but 1 in 25 is a pretty standard estimate. There's no reason to believe it's "wildly inflated." One researcher estimated 1 in 3 among the males.


Must've been a female researcher for that last estimate. She just got confused because she doesn't have a penis.

/MyPenisIsASociopath would be a great band name/fark handle.
 
2013-06-12 03:33:30 PM
If you think you MIGHT be a bit sociopathic, but feel vaguely guilty about it, what does that make you?
 
2013-06-12 03:33:34 PM

sugarhi: I'd rather not, particularly after reading The Psychpath Test. People who are pathologically manipulative and incapable of empathy are terrifying.


Uh yeah.  I dated a psychopath a couple of years ago.  Didn't really know much about it until the fallout from that, did a little research.  Creepiest damn thing I've ever imagined.  Nasty...
 
2013-06-12 03:35:01 PM
I don't find anything exotic about sociopaths. About half of the people in prison for violent crime are sociopaths. Alot of them were ADHD in childhood. Despite what the press tells you they tend to have low IQ. Many of them were raised by crappy parents and are in turn crappy parents themselves. They have impulse control and drug abuse problems. Most of them have ruined credit (financial irresponsibility is one of the criteria). The sociopath driving around in a suit and BMW convertible is the exception to the rule.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/118.long
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11989987
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22581200
 
2013-06-12 03:36:12 PM
Lets see what happens when we add meth.
 
2013-06-12 03:36:32 PM

dopekitty74: If you think you MIGHT be a bit sociopathic, but feel vaguely guilty about it, what does that make you?


A jerk?
 
Ant
2013-06-12 03:39:51 PM

Hayes: If the author's problem with sociopaths is that they don't recognize an objective moral system, he has a problem with a lot more people than he thinks.  That's a philosophical position that is not all that frightening.


There is a difference in not having an objective moral system, and thinking it's perfectly OK to fark people over to advance your own interests.

I actually believe in a somewhat semi-objective morality, for lack of a better term. I think there exists a set of moral beliefs that are shared across cultures by the vast majority of people, and that these moral instincts are intrinsic to most humans, though many of them reserve their empathy for an extremely small circle of people.

I guess a sociopath would be someone whose empathy circle consisted of only themselves.
 
2013-06-12 03:40:21 PM

dopekitty74: If you think you MIGHT be a bit sociopathic, but feel vaguely guilty about it, what does that make you?


An asshole

sugarhi: I'd rather not, particularly after reading The Psychpath Test. People who are pathologically manipulative and incapable of empathy are terrifying.


Boo

bugontherug: A campaign enhanced both by an intuitive grasp and studied understanding of human psychology.


I studied the FACE system so I could be a better liar, I'm pretty sure that counts

I mean, I do have empathy I really do. I can really be empathetic to someone elses pain, but usually only when it benefits me in the long term.
 
2013-06-12 03:41:25 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: They tend to frown on you driving across three states wearing a woman's head as a hat


love your work!!!
 
2013-06-12 03:43:05 PM

AGremlin: bugontherug: AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.

"Psychopath" and "sociopath" are not now and have never been clinical diagnoses. Not in the United States, anyway.

"Psychopath" is more often used in a legal context to determine how the state will treat certain offenders. Some states have, for example, "sexual psychopath" laws which, if an offender meets the statutory definition of it, mandate harsher treatment for them than for other offenders.

I'm not aware of the use of "sociopath" in any legal context.

It was in DSM IV as Antisocial Personality Disorder.


Sounds to me like we agree that neither "psychopath" nor "sociopath" are clinical diagnoses.

Antisocial Personality Disorder doesn't comport entirely with the way researchers and others use the terms "psychopath" and "sociopath." Among researches and laypeople alike, for example, most would agree that a sociopath need have no evidence of sociopathy in his childhood background. But evidence of antisocial traits in childhood is a necessary component of an ADP diagnosis. And the other cluster B  disorders exhibit traits people would describe as "sociopathic."
 
2013-06-12 03:46:58 PM

sugarhi: I'd rather not, particularly after reading The Psychpath Test. People who are pathologically manipulative and incapable of empathy are terrifying.


Agreed; they are incapable of feeling remorse too.  My ex husband is a sociopath - Antisocial Personality Disorder is the current term I think.  Absolutely evil b*stard is my preferred label.

/I'm remarkably well-adjusted after the ordeal....most of the time anyway:)
 
2013-06-12 03:48:05 PM

dopekitty74: If you think you MIGHT be a bit sociopathic, but feel vaguely guilty about it, what does that make you?


Someone in an open marriage who bangs amateur wrestlers?
 
2013-06-12 03:54:16 PM
Patrick Bateman wasn't a psychopath. Narcissistic and hedonistic, he was also delusional about all the murder fantasies he never carried out. He actually cared about things.
 
2013-06-12 03:56:38 PM
I've dated someone that many of the characteristics of a sociopath, but I wouldn't say she was a full on sociopath. She was definitely a narcissist, charming as shiat, and was great at feigning words like she meant them even when her actions were different.

Where she was truly brilliantly evil was when she was effortlessly manipulating other people's emotions to make them feel like they either belonged or were a social outcast; this was done usually to push an agenda, and she had zero shame about it.
 
2013-06-12 03:57:06 PM
It's kind of nice to be a psychopath, I have so many fewer things to worry about than you people do
 
2013-06-12 04:00:04 PM
The author referenced in TFA is trying to make a run on sociopathy being the next aspergers or bipolar; a mine of pop-psyc bullshiat to be exploited by telling people what they want to hear to sell books. At least the article author is calling bullshiat on it.

See also: the current trend on "introversion" and "social anxiety" making you a special snowflake as well.
 
2013-06-12 04:08:43 PM

Apos: [lucien0maverick.files.wordpress.com image 850x478]

approves.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

Approves as well.
 
2013-06-12 04:11:04 PM

bugontherug: AGremlin: bugontherug: AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.

"Psychopath" and "sociopath" are not now and have never been clinical diagnoses. Not in the United States, anyway.

"Psychopath" is more often used in a legal context to determine how the state will treat certain offenders. Some states have, for example, "sexual psychopath" laws which, if an offender meets the statutory definition of it, mandate harsher treatment for them than for other offenders.

I'm not aware of the use of "sociopath" in any legal context.

It was in DSM IV as Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Sounds to me like we agree that neither "psychopath" nor "sociopath" are clinical diagnoses.

Antisocial Personality Disorder doesn't comport entirely with the way researchers and others use the terms "psychopath" and "sociopath." Among researches and laypeople alike, for example, most would agree that a sociopath need have no evidence of sociopathy in his childhood background. But evidence of antisocial traits in childhood is a necessary component of an ADP diagnosis. And the other cluster B  disorders exhibit traits people would describe as "sociopathic."


You implied that the term sociopath had never been a clinical diagnosis, it was in DSM III-R.  The DSM is used extensively in the U.S. by mental health professionals.  As I said, DSM IV uses the term Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Not sure what terminology DSM V uses.

And I'm not sure your point.
 
2013-06-12 04:27:11 PM

dopekitty74: If you think you MIGHT be a bit sociopathic, but feel vaguely guilty about it, what does that make you?


A regular old asshole.

I recently finally rid myself of a part-time personal assistant who I'm pretty sure is an undiagnosed sociopath, but may also just be an asshole. During the course of her employment, I discovered that she's been diagnosed as bipolar, borderline, and a few other things during the course of years of treatment. She also saw no problem with mentioning cursing at a judge, contaminating an ex-boyfriend's food, stealing his credit card to acquire an adequate birthday present, and, when she learned that someone had stolen $16,000 from a family member, said that since they gave it back when they got caught, it wasn't really stealing.

Her last three boyfriends were convicted felons because she "doesn't see eye to eye" with "good guys", which I interpreted as "non-criminals". At one point, she also indicated that she doesn't understand the idea of looking back on yourself as a teenager and realizing that you made a mistake because you didn't know something that you know now, that she's never felt that way.

She finally made up a face-saving excuse to quit after she went on an extended crying jag in front of me because a parent was trying to "control her" by telling her she needed to start thinking about getting a full-time job, which she described as "being obsessed with money". This, at age 30.

You can hardly imagine how relieved I am to be rid of her and to have all my passwords changed.
 
2013-06-12 04:29:58 PM
Stopped reading here:
She could not be me because I really don't like touching people and my empathy runs so deep that I only have to think about Bambi and I'm crying

There could be nothing afterwards that wasn't painted with this brush.
 
2013-06-12 04:30:50 PM
Ayn Rand was definitely a sociopath. So was L Ron Hubbard and Aleistar Crowley.
 
2013-06-12 04:33:14 PM

wildcardjack: He actually cared about things.


Sociopaths care about things. It's been too long since I've seen the movie (and I never read the book) so you might be right in your assessment of the character...but sociopaths can and do care very much about many things.

Best analogy I've come up with is think about playing Super Mario Bros (or any video game). You don't feel bad for the turtles you're stomping. You don't feel bad for the plants you fireball. You can play games and empathize with NPCs (or any fictional character) but there's plenty of times where we *don't* form that empathy because we realize they're not agents. (They're not a being that has a mind that is capable of experiencing suffering). I've never lost a night's sleep on all the thousands upon thousands of virtual NPCs I've slaughtered. In fact, I find it pleasurable. There's no remorse, and the concept that there would be is almost funny. That's the closest I think a non-sociopath can come to understanding what is a very alien state of mind.

A sociopath has impaired empathy attachment. That doesn't mean they never care about another person, they can and do care very deeply about some people. They simply don't form empathetic attachments. The love they have for others is an extension of self. Family typically, an extension of themselves (which is why they can sometimes be bizarrely abusive to family, not intentionally or with mean intent...but because they don't empathize with them as a separate entity.)

And they like to win. They like control (even the lazy ones who are parasitic, they still exert tremendous control). And they can have very rigid internal rules or codes. I don't mean in a Dexter-y way (never got into the show, am familiar with it tho) but in a code of honor type of way. This again is NOT empathy in any way, shape or form. It has to do with how they seem THEMSELVES. All self driven. An example would be a violent sociopathic male being very proud that he always provided food for his family, and never murdered a woman. He may have beaten his wife terribly. He may have neglected his children emotionally. But within their internal rule context, they have kept to specific rules. And they can feel something close to shame, intense anger and disappointment in self for violating those rules.

They've had to get along with the other monkeys. Their quirks have allowed and continued to allow them to succeed in a variety of areas. Some of these are beneficial to the group, some are not. Whether or not that matters to them varies. You cannot appeal to emotionalism, or a sense of feeling bad though. You cannot use the tools of shame or guilt. And whereas most monkeys have intense feelings, and once that passes...so does the intensity of the anger/hate/fear/etc. that is not typically true of a sociopath. Sure they get the burst of anger at strangers which pass. But they keep score with people they know. Lots of people do this of course, but they're masters of it.

Grants them some advantages and a lot of disadvantages.
 
2013-06-12 04:33:20 PM

Decillion: AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.

I disagree. It's given out too easily but still attached to people with no regard for anyone else. However these are mostly assholes. Not actual sociopaths.


This. "Sociopath" has to be determined by a psychiatrist or psychologist. People who manipulate and don't care about other people's feelings are not usually psycho/sociopaths. They're just assholes. Not special assholes. Just assholes.
 
2013-06-12 04:35:53 PM

Ant: Hayes: If the author's problem with sociopaths is that they don't recognize an objective moral system, he has a problem with a lot more people than he thinks.  That's a philosophical position that is not all that frightening.

There is a difference in not having an objective moral system, and thinking it's perfectly OK to fark people over to advance your own interests.


But... what if someone - not me, of course, I hasten to add - thought it was perfectly OK to fark people over not necessarily to advance my their own interests, but purely for the lulz?

/I'm only asking questions here
 
2013-06-12 04:38:02 PM

AGremlin: Decillion: AGremlin: Sociopath is thrown around so much today it has virtually lost all meaning.  It used to be and should be a clinical diagnosis.

Definition is now: People who do things you don't like or agree with.

I disagree. It's given out too easily but still attached to people with no regard for anyone else. However these are mostly assholes. Not actual sociopaths.

I read your response multiple times and can only conclude that you agree with me.

And possibly don't understand the meaning of disagree.


Your definition is wrong. Nobody labels someone a sociopath because they 'do things you don't like or agree with'.  They think other things of these people. Ass, idiot, etc. but not sociopath.
 
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