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(Talking Points Memo)   Last time I checked, Mr. Snowden, Americans don't leak highly classified information to foreign media, then go hide in a Chinese hotel room   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, hotels, South China Morning Post  
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3993 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jun 2013 at 3:57 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-12 11:43:34 AM  
"I'm neither traitor nor hero. I'm an American," Snowden said"

Now he's playing the holier than thou patriot card?  Yeah, fark this guy.
 
2013-06-12 11:46:25 AM  
Check again. Because he did.  So there.
 
2013-06-12 11:50:05 AM  
It's a shame he didn't get Robert Novak to cover for him.
 
2013-06-12 11:50:50 AM  
He wouldn't have done any of this if he believed in Jack Swagger's AmericaTM!
 
2013-06-12 11:52:58 AM  
But China is our ally in the war on terror, number one trading partner, one of our largest creditors, and essential to our economy.

Why do we suddenly pretend to give two shiats what kind of oppressive nightmare it is when things like this happen?
 
2013-06-12 01:36:27 PM  
I'm really on the fence with this guy.  I think he is either just really cool but possibly a National hero.
 
2013-06-12 02:47:25 PM  
They do now.
 
2013-06-12 02:47:38 PM  
Does he have a lot of money saved up or is he independently wealthy?

Who is paying for him to stay indefinitely in a Hong Kong hotel room?
 
2013-06-12 02:52:11 PM  

vernonFL: Does he have a lot of money saved up or is he independently wealthy?

Who is paying for him to stay indefinitely in a Hong Kong hotel room?


He used to make $200k a year.  At that level of income you usually have this thing called "savings".  A quaint outdated concept, but there you are.
 
2013-06-12 02:55:52 PM  
You can't stop the signal.
 
2013-06-12 03:12:06 PM  
FTFA: "I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality."

Right, because fleeing the country that can prosecute you says "I'm not hiding."
 
2013-06-12 03:13:07 PM  

vernonFL: Does he have a lot of money saved up or is he independently wealthy?

Who is paying for him to stay indefinitely in a Hong Kong hotel room?


Almost certainly the Chinese. Now whether or not he's actually free to leave the hotel room is another question entirely
 
2013-06-12 03:21:21 PM  

nmrsnr: FTFA: "I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality."

Right, because fleeing the country that can prosecute you says "I'm not hiding."


but it is completely consistent with having more time to tell his story (which is what he is doing).
 
2013-06-12 03:25:32 PM  
 
2013-06-12 03:28:34 PM  

mrshowrules: nmrsnr: FTFA: "I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality."

Right, because fleeing the country that can prosecute you says "I'm not hiding."

but it is completely consistent with having more time to tell his story (which is what he is doing).


And if he didn't seek asylum in Iceland, you may have a point. Also, it's not like they cut out your tongue when they arrest you. Bradley Manning certainly has had opportunities to get his side across through himself and his lawyers.
 
2013-06-12 03:39:58 PM  

nmrsnr: mrshowrules: nmrsnr: FTFA: "I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality."

Right, because fleeing the country that can prosecute you says "I'm not hiding."

but it is completely consistent with having more time to tell his story (which is what he is doing).

And if he didn't seek asylum in Iceland, you may have a point. Also, it's not like they cut out your tongue when they arrest you. Bradley Manning certainly has had opportunities to get his side across through himself and his lawyers.


He doesn't want to get arrested but that is not his primary goal.  If his primary goal was not to get arrested he probably wouldn't have done any of this to begin with.
 
2013-06-12 04:01:45 PM  

I_C_Weener: You can't stop the signal.


WHAT IS THE FREQUENCY KENNETH?
 
2013-06-12 04:02:03 PM  

mrshowrules: nmrsnr: FTFA: "I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality."

Right, because fleeing the country that can prosecute you says "I'm not hiding."

but it is completely consistent with having more time to tell his story (which is what he is doing).


And his story is largely bullshiat.  This is an low level IT guy that got hold of some powerpoints.  He is most likely after a book deal.
 
2013-06-12 04:03:15 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: vernonFL: Does he have a lot of money saved up or is he independently wealthy?

Who is paying for him to stay indefinitely in a Hong Kong hotel room?

He used to make $200k a year.  At that level of income you usually have this thing called "savings".  A quaint outdated concept, but there you are.


Most software developers I know who make that much blow it on lavishly unsustainable lifestyles and biatch that they don't make nearly enough money because the government is stealing it from them and letting poor people live even more lavish lifestyles than are possible at $200k.
 
2013-06-12 04:03:27 PM  
If we didn't imprison whistleblowers, then he wouldn't be in China right now.
 
2013-06-12 04:03:31 PM  
Grand_Moff_Joseph:  Now he's playing the holier than thou patriot card?  Yeah, fark this guy.

To be fair, anyone taking politically controversial stances and actions, such as the NSA and Michele Bachmann, will claim to do so out of love of country.
 
2013-06-12 04:03:31 PM  

mrshowrules: nmrsnr: mrshowrules: nmrsnr: FTFA: "I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality."

Right, because fleeing the country that can prosecute you says "I'm not hiding."

but it is completely consistent with having more time to tell his story (which is what he is doing).

And if he didn't seek asylum in Iceland, you may have a point. Also, it's not like they cut out your tongue when they arrest you. Bradley Manning certainly has had opportunities to get his side across through himself and his lawyers.

He doesn't want to get arrested but that is not his primary goal.  If his primary goal was not to get arrested he probably wouldn't have done any of this to begin with.


No he would have still done it, what he wouldn't have done is reveal his identity to the masses.
 
2013-06-12 04:03:57 PM  

nmrsnr: FTFA: "I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality."

Right, because fleeing the country that can prosecute you says "I'm not hiding."


When the government glories in having its own legal-black-hole torture-carnival, it does.He's not hiding, he not-being-water-boarded and/or not-droned
 
2013-06-12 04:04:01 PM  
Where are the gallows?
 
2013-06-12 04:05:05 PM  

nmrsnr: Bradley Manning certainly has had opportunities to get his side across through himself and his lawyers.


...and so did all of the prisoners at Gitmo, right?
 
2013-06-12 04:05:12 PM  
No, Real Americans (the wealthy and powerful ones) uproot their country's factories and R&D labs, and ship them off to China and India.
 
2013-06-12 04:05:41 PM  
The NSA program should not have been kept secret from voters. I am not so much pissed about this program does specifically. What bothers me is that the reason for the secrecy has more to do with protecting politicians from voters more than anything else.
 
2013-06-12 04:06:34 PM  

Lando Lincoln: If we didn't imprison whistleblowers, then he wouldn't be in China right now.


*nods approvingly*
 
2013-06-12 04:09:36 PM  
I might have missed it, but what exactly did Snowden reveal that we didn't already know or very, very strongly suspect?

The US is trying to hack China?  I'm all kinds of Claude Rains shocked! NSA getting call detail records and emails, this is breaking news from 2006. Again, maybe I missed something, but as far as I can tell he's just providing proof, not revealing shocking secrets.

Rather different from, say, outing Plame, or some of the intel contacts outed in Manning's diarrhea.
 
2013-06-12 04:09:48 PM  
Last time I checked, Mr. Snowden, Americans don't leak highly classified information to foreign media, then go hide in a Chinese hotel room

Was that before America could legally disappear it's citizens?

Land of the Free?  More like land of the Chumps!
 
2013-06-12 04:10:00 PM  

MithrandirBooga: Marcus Aurelius: vernonFL: Does he have a lot of money saved up or is he independently wealthy?

Who is paying for him to stay indefinitely in a Hong Kong hotel room?

He used to make $200k a year.  At that level of income you usually have this thing called "savings".  A quaint outdated concept, but there you are.

Most software developers I know who make that much blow it on lavishly unsustainable lifestyles and biatch that they don't make nearly enough money because the government is stealing it from them and letting poor people live even more lavish lifestyles than are possible at $200k.


But enough about the Farkers over on the Business tab.
 
2013-06-12 04:10:06 PM  
Can we say "contractor becomes instant celebrity through narcissism, but instead becomew security risk and pawn in partisan political struggle" yet? Also, running to china and admitting you were an NSA contractor is a short way of saying, "why yes, I would like to be imprisoned and tortured for vital secrets before being executed for spying!"
 
2013-06-12 04:12:08 PM  

coyo: The NSA program should not have been kept secret from voters. I am not so much pissed about this program does specifically. What bothers me is that the reason for the secrecy has more to do with protecting politicians from voters more than anything else.


Bingo.  Total Information Awareness caused a political shiatstorm sufficient to drive the project back underground when it became public. And that was in a post-9/11 political calculus.
 
2013-06-12 04:14:20 PM  
content.hollywire.com

Even though Edward Snowden is a trader, I loved him in Blue Valentine.
 
2013-06-12 04:14:43 PM  
Americans are supposed to shut up and do what their told by their bosses and government!
 
2013-06-12 04:15:01 PM  

Obama's Reptiloid Master: Can we say "contractor becomes instant celebrity through narcissism, but instead becomew security risk and pawn in partisan political struggle" yet? Also, running to china and admitting you were an NSA contractor is a short way of saying, "why yes, I would like to be imprisoned and tortured for vital secrets before being executed for spying!"


Sadly, I'm not sure which government you're referring to here.  I wonder if he meets the star chamber test for death by drone yet.
 
2013-06-12 04:15:27 PM  
I guess if you really want to get awarded, just do what this guy did and land a US spy plane in China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Osborn
 
2013-06-12 04:15:33 PM  

Lando Lincoln: If we didn't imprison whistleblowers, then he wouldn't be in China right now.


We dont imprison whistleblowers, we imprison people who release legally classified information about legal operations.
 
2013-06-12 04:15:59 PM  
Are the cockpit doors on commercial airliners secured now? Phew, we can finally move on.
 
2013-06-12 04:16:57 PM  

mrshowrules: I'm really on the fence with this guy.  I think he is either just really cool but possibly a National hero.


But the shiat he said was over the top.

Saying one person working on a project that has access to the data and saying the government has access to it is not the same thing at all.

I've worked on many systems where I could have potential access to SSNs or Credit Card information but that doesn't mean the head of the company or anyone else could just call me up and ask and get that information.

Just because he dealt with systems that had access to the information does not mean at all that the US government could legally or illegally have access to it. But He said that was true when he wouldn't even know the facts about it. (and according to everyone else so far they say he is wrong)
 
2013-06-12 04:17:51 PM  

FarkedOver: Americans are supposed to shut up and do what their told by their bosses and government!


and hate who we are told to hate instantly
 
2013-06-12 04:18:33 PM  

Lando Lincoln: If we didn't imprison whistleblowers, then he wouldn't be in China right now.


No there are charges against him for leaking secret information not that he is a whistle blower.

There are many ways he could have been a whistle blower without actually leaking information.
 
2013-06-12 04:18:45 PM  
 

coyo: The NSA program should not have been kept secret from voters. I am not so much pissed about this program does specifically. What bothers me is that the reason for the secrecy has more to do with protecting politicians from voters more than anything else.


Why would they worry so much about keeping it from voters, when the majority of voters support it?

"I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality."

Patiently waiting to see actual criminality.
 
2013-06-12 04:19:28 PM  

shifty lookin bleeder: Obama's Reptiloid Master: Can we say "contractor becomes instant celebrity through narcissism, but instead becomew security risk and pawn in partisan political struggle" yet? Also, running to china and admitting you were an NSA contractor is a short way of saying, "why yes, I would like to be imprisoned and tortured for vital secrets before being executed for spying!"

Sadly, I'm not sure which government you're referring to here.  I wonder if he meets the star chamber test for death by drone yet.


I'll get your fainting couch.
 
2013-06-12 04:21:57 PM  

FarkedOver: Americans are supposed to shut up and do what their told by their bosses and government!



4.bp.blogspot.com

They may take our lives, but they'll never take OUR SIMPLE PLATITUDES AND  RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION!!!!
 
2013-06-12 04:22:45 PM  

Lando Lincoln: If we didn't imprison whistleblowers, then he wouldn't be in China right now.


So according to you we should not prosecute anyone who leaks information because they personally don't think something is fair or should be legal?

Think that through, instead of just having a knee jerk reaction.
 
2013-06-12 04:24:17 PM  

IlGreven: nmrsnr: Bradley Manning certainly has had opportunities to get his side across through himself and his lawyers.

...and so did all of the prisoners at Gitmo, right?


No, but Gitmo is a very, very weird legal limbo that shouldn't exist (and violated the US Constitution for the first several years of it's existence). Snowden is a US citizen who is not eligible for Gitmo treatment, so that comparison isn't valid.
 
Bf+
2013-06-12 04:24:41 PM  
Amazing how many are throwing around the word "treason" without knowing what it actually means.
To which country (with which we are currently at war) did he send what actionable material?

Oh, and even the author of the patriot act thinks this NSA shiat is bullshiat.
 
2013-06-12 04:26:33 PM  

Bf+: Amazing how many are throwing around the word "treason" without knowing what it actually means.
To which country (with which we are currently at war) did he send what actionable material?

Oh, and even the author of the patriot act thinks this NSA shiat is bullshiat.


Psst you are the first mention of "Treason" in this thread. So who exactly are you referring to?
 
2013-06-12 04:27:01 PM  

fonebone77: Lando Lincoln: If we didn't imprison whistleblowers, then he wouldn't be in China right now.

We dont imprison whistleblowers, we imprison people who release legally classified information about legal operations.


So... just like the Soviets and the old East German Stasi?

I mean, "anti-Soviet agitation" was a crime in the Soviet Union, so it wasn't about imprisoning pro-democracy activists, it was about enforcing the Soviet penal code.

Also, when Hitler's police arrested Jews for not wearing the identifying yellow stars on their clothing, it wasn't about any sort of anti-Semitism, but was just the police even-handedly enforcing the laws on the books.

And ten years from now, when people are arrested and thrown in prison for 20 years because they weren't wearing the required American flag lapel pins, it won't be about police state tactics... it'll just be Office Friendly enforcing the law.
 
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