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(Yahoo)   Looks like al Qaida has some of Qadhafi's portable SA-7 surface-to-air heat-seeking missiles. Enjoy your flight   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, al-Qaeda, U.S. Department of State, Maghreb, u.s. special forces, French Army, Atlantic Council, flights, Timbuktu  
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4170 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jun 2013 at 7:50 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-06-12 07:36:59 AM  
I demand background checks for missile launchers.
 
2013-06-12 07:57:13 AM  
I wonder how many different ways there are to spell 'al Qaida?'
 
2013-06-12 07:57:28 AM  
 
2013-06-12 07:57:41 AM  
Are they ASSAULT SA-7s?

Seriously though, the world is kind of lousy with them.  And I think there are still a ton of stingers out there from back in the day.  I think it was Amed Shah Masoud who said "all we need to defeat the russians is the Koran and Stinger missiles.".
 
2013-06-12 07:59:02 AM  
I think about dying in a plane crash all the time. I was on a few scary flights in the mid 1990s and that did away with my fearlessness.

I am flying to the UK next month. And I am thinking I would rather get taken down by one of these than human error/geese/weather events.

How would one of these blow up a plane? would it just destroy the engine? Or would it turn a whole A380 into a huge fireball?

What is the missile's ceiling?
 
2013-06-12 07:59:13 AM  
The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a MANPADS is a good guy with a MANPADS.
 
2013-06-12 08:00:03 AM  

Aarontology: I demand background checks for missile launchers.


Is now a good time to stock up on missiles?
 
2013-06-12 08:01:31 AM  

Cythraul: I wonder how many different ways there are to spell 'al Qaida?'


Ask Muamar Ghaddafi.
 
2013-06-12 08:05:39 AM  

fireclown: Are they ASSAULT SA-7s?

Seriously though, the world is kind of lousy with them.  And I think there are still a ton of stingers out there from back in the day.  I think it was Amed Shah Masoud who said "all we need to defeat the russians is the Koran and Stinger missiles.".


Actually, the Soviets weren't winning in Afghanistan prior to the introduction of Stingers.  Their introduction merely hastened the inevitable, as for historical, institutional and political reasons the Soviet Army didn't have the doctrine necessary to adequately deal with a truly popular and widespread insurgency.

A good paper on this subject is called "Ghosts Against Hinds" by Frederick Kagan.
 
2013-06-12 08:06:10 AM  
Maybe they printed out all those manuals and longingly read them all night long like you used to do as a kid with the Toys R Us catalog before Christmas
 
2013-06-12 08:07:33 AM  
They should check to make sure they're not still full of cocaine.
 
2013-06-12 08:08:06 AM  

Cythraul: I wonder how many different ways there are to spell 'al Qaida?'


IN enkleesh?
 
2013-06-12 08:08:36 AM  

nursemt719: The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a MANPADS is a good guy with a MANPADS.


Manpads? For when a man has his 'time of the month?'
 
2013-06-12 08:08:45 AM  

August11: I think about dying in a plane crash all the time. I was on a few scary flights in the mid 1990s and that did away with my fearlessness.

I am flying to the UK next month. And I am thinking I would rather get taken down by one of these than human error/geese/weather events.

How would one of these blow up a plane? would it just destroy the engine? Or would it turn a whole A380 into a huge fireball?

What is the missile's ceiling?


I believe they are only good for a few miles if they are like the stinger.
 
2013-06-12 08:10:04 AM  
And this is why you don't sell/give arms or weapon designs to unstable sh*tholes even if they happen to be your "ally" that day.
 
2013-06-12 08:10:07 AM  
Obviously, the solution is to have more little kids being fondled by TSA goons.
 
2013-06-12 08:12:32 AM  

August11: I think about dying in a plane crash all the time. I was on a few scary flights in the mid 1990s and that did away with my fearlessness.

I am flying to the UK next month. And I am thinking I would rather get taken down by one of these than human error/geese/weather events.

How would one of these blow up a plane? would it just destroy the engine? Or would it turn a whole A380 into a huge fireball?

What is the missile's ceiling?


Warhead is blast fragmentation, flight ceiling is up to 2300 metres, so takeoff or landing is the best time to strike. There's less than a pound of explosives, so an A380 won't end up a Baysplosion, but still a bad day for thode getting shot at.

Stupid phone no hyperlinky

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strela_2
 
2013-06-12 08:15:27 AM  

Cythraul: nursemt719: The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a MANPADS is a good guy with a MANPADS.

Manpads? For when a man has his 'time of the month?'


Man Portable Air Defense System. I wouldn't want to stick a 5-foot missile--let alone anything called a Stinger--anywhere near my cojones.
 
2013-06-12 08:20:10 AM  

dittybopper: A good paper on this subject is called "Ghosts Against Hinds" by Frederick Kagan.


I'll pick up a copy.  If you haven't already read it, pretty much anything by Amed Rashid is pretty darn good as well.  I wish he wrote more often.
 
2013-06-12 08:22:54 AM  

Kalashinator: Warhead is blast fragmentation, flight ceiling is up to 2300 metres, so takeoff or landing is the best time to strike. There's less than a pound of explosives, so an A380 won't end up a Baysplosion, but still a bad day for those getting shot at.


That is what I was thinking. Just as long as I don't have too much time to ponder life's mysteries falling from 31,000 feet.
 
2013-06-12 08:23:56 AM  

August11: How would one of these blow up a plane?


Generally it's going to be a charge that explodes near the engine or really anywhere else depending on the type of detonater/warhead. A proximity blast sends shrapnel through the skin of the plane damaging critical components. If the blast was very close to the plane obviously the damage would be greater. If such an explosion ruptured and ignited a fuel tank it might be possible to have a 'Hollywood style' fiery explosion.

Depending on where the damage is it's absolutely possible it might take multiple missiles to bring down a large passenger liner.

www.cfg.cornell.edu

www.ainonline.com

i.imgur.com

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RKKQYXZ6bu8/TZ7U9uA31BI/AAAAAAAACZo/Hw3pul G8 I9A/s1600/MANPAD+Effect.jpg

I'm sure the NSA is having fun with the gooogle searches I just did.
 
2013-06-12 08:28:15 AM  

Kalashinator: August11: I think about dying in a plane crash all the time. I was on a few scary flights in the mid 1990s and that did away with my fearlessness.

I am flying to the UK next month. And I am thinking I would rather get taken down by one of these than human error/geese/weather events.

How would one of these blow up a plane? would it just destroy the engine? Or would it turn a whole A380 into a huge fireball?

What is the missile's ceiling?

Warhead is blast fragmentation, flight ceiling is up to 2300 metres, so takeoff or landing is the best time to strike. There's less than a pound of explosives, so an A380 won't end up a Baysplosion, but still a bad day for thode getting shot at.

Stupid phone no hyperlinky

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strela_2


Also the IR detection system has a dead space in the center which gives the missile a wobble flight reducing its range and effectiveness. Lastly for proper usage the missile also needs considerable training because it takes a good 15 to 20 seconds for the gyros and stabilizers to fire up which require the target to be tracked smoothly by the iron sights. All together it takes a good half a minute to track and fire on a target, and if not fired on properly it has a HUGE failure rate for fast movers.

The missile was designed as a helo killer, and it excels at that....when it comes to jets..not so much.
 
2013-06-12 08:30:34 AM  

August11: That is what I was thinking. Just as long as I don't have too much time to ponder life's mysteries falling from 31,000 feet.


That's the thing that drives me slightly mad thinking about the Air France crash in the Atlantic in 2009.  I think the air speed probe malfunctioned, the plane stalled and then took a long time to fall in to the sea.  Even typing that made me shiver.
 
2013-06-12 08:35:10 AM  
I would be more worried if they got new batteries for the Stingers we gave them.

I have wired 35 AA batteries from the Dollar store. By Allah's beard. This must work.

Here comes a Virgin Atlantic flight, Omar. It angers Allah that the owner is flamboyant and yet has bad teeth even for English.

I am squeezing the trigger, Abdul. I get nothing except PC LO BAT. What the fark does that mean?

I shall go to the Dollar store and get more batteries. I shall return before that Southwest flight for Tucson departs. It angers Allah that the air waitresses mock the flight safety rules briefing.
 
2013-06-12 08:40:25 AM  
Don't care... odds are still far greater of me dying from a slip and fall injury... terrorism is just the government's current explanation for why I need to be constantly under surveillance while they rob me of most of my tax money to pay off friends who do nothing useful for the nation.

/you're eight times more likely to be killed by a policeman than a terrorist... maybe you should direct your fears in a more rational manner.
 
2013-06-12 08:46:14 AM  
Neighbors say they saw foreign fighters running laps each day, carrying out target practice and inhaling and holding their breath with a pipe-like object on their shoulder. The drill is standard practice for shoulder-held missiles, including the SA-7.

IIRC, it is also the SOP for firing an RGP. Load the round, lock it back with the lever in the grip, remove the safety, aim, scream and fire. Expect to be punched in the face. Only fired a training round so I suspect the real thing is much, much worse.
 
2013-06-12 08:47:04 AM  

StaleCoffee: Aarontology: I demand background checks for missile launchers.

Is now a good time to stock up on missiles?


I've got a couple dozen buried in the yard for the revolution.
 
2013-06-12 08:54:05 AM  
Two easy solutions:
- the government will provide anti-missile systems for all commercial airliners
- we're sending an expeditionary force (won't exceed 10000, give or take a couple of zeros) to Africa to round up those missiles
Done.
 
2013-06-12 08:56:36 AM  

firefly212: Don't care... odds are still far greater of me dying from a slip and fall injury... terrorism is just the government's current explanation for why I need to be constantly under surveillance while they rob me of most of my tax money to pay off friends who do nothing useful for the nation.

/you're eight times more likely to be killed by a policeman than a terrorist... maybe you should direct your fears in a more rational manner.


You are more likely to be killed by a cow than a terrorist.
 
2013-06-12 08:57:53 AM  

August11: How would one of these blow up a plane? would it just destroy the engine? Or would it turn a whole A380 into a huge fireball?


Most likely just one of the engines. And since the engines are on pods and not part of the fuselage, it's not as bad as it is with fighters. The fate of the aircraft will be determined by how much wing damage there is from the shrapnel and how good the pilots are.

Apparently though once armed you have only 45 seconds to use the launcher else the entire head has to be replaced. Something to do with the cooling systems I think. Not very reliable.
 
2013-06-12 09:09:08 AM  

Thats No Moose: Apparently though once armed you have only 45 seconds to use the launcher else the entire head has to be replaced. Something to do with the cooling systems I think. Not very reliable.


Yep, you basically have 15 seconds window to fire the thing or its worthless
 
2013-06-12 09:23:16 AM  

Cythraul: I wonder how many different ways there are to spell 'al Qaida?'


google 'transliterating arabic' and read 'she was a splendid beast.'
 
2013-06-12 09:32:39 AM  

SurelyShirley: we're sending an expeditionary force (won't exceed 10000, give or take a couple of zeros) to Africa to round up those missiles


Nothing could go wrong!
 
2013-06-12 09:33:53 AM  
So what you're saying is... I should start using Emirates Air instead of Virgin from now on?
 
2013-06-12 09:37:26 AM  

Thats No Moose: August11: How would one of these blow up a plane? would it just destroy the engine? Or would it turn a whole A380 into a huge fireball?

Most likely just one of the engines. And since the engines are on pods and not part of the fuselage, it's not as bad as it is with fighters. The fate of the aircraft will be determined by how much wing damage there is from the shrapnel and how good the pilots are.

Apparently though once armed you have only 45 seconds to use the launcher else the entire head has to be replaced. Something to do with the cooling systems I think. Not very reliable.


From the few incidents ive been able to read about, the main way jumbo jets go down from missiles is severed hydraulic lines and/or loss of flaps.  They basically just lose control and spiral into the ground.  It sucks because you've got a few minutes to think about how farked you are.
 
2013-06-12 09:38:59 AM  
They don't know how to use them and they're more valuable as a propaganda/ internal posturing tool.

The guy who owns a missile is badass. The guy who fired his missile last month and missed is a nobody.
 
2013-06-12 10:03:31 AM  

Alonjar: From the few incidents ive been able to read about, the main way jumbo jets go down from missiles is severed hydraulic lines and/or loss of flaps. They basically just lose control and spiral into the ground. It sucks because you've got a few minutes to think about how farked you are. rub one out.


FTFY
 
2013-06-12 10:29:18 AM  
As noted many times already, MANPADS would only work during the aircraft's takeoff or landing, and they'd probably key in on an engine. Engines offer enough redundancy to allow the plane to circle right back around for an emergency landing. A frightening experience, to be sure, but not fatal. Only a real problem if they can somehow score hits on both engines (good luck), or somehow manage to hit the cockpit or get a 1-in-a-million hit on an ultra-critical system.


The Envoy: August11: That is what I was thinking. Just as long as I don't have too much time to ponder life's mysteries falling from 31,000 feet.

That's the thing that drives me slightly mad thinking about the Air France crash in the Atlantic in 2009.  I think the air speed probe malfunctioned, the plane stalled and then took a long time to fall in to the sea.  Even typing that made me shiver.



I believe the article was on Pan Am 103, and discussed the likelihood that the passengers all passed out almost immediately after the bomb detonation, due to altitude effects. They woke back up, though, a handful of seconds before hitting the ground, thanks to the increased air thickness.

Just... chilling. Right up there with the sound that a 747 cockpit makes when all 4 engines go dead and the power and lights go out.

Made me absolutely rage at the bomber.
 
2013-06-12 11:19:46 AM  

Thats No Moose: August11: How would one of these blow up a plane? would it just destroy the engine? Or would it turn a whole A380 into a huge fireball?

Most likely just one of the engines. And since the engines are on pods and not part of the fuselage, it's not as bad as it is with fighters. The fate of the aircraft will be determined by how much wing damage there is from the shrapnel and how good the pilots are.

Apparently though once armed you have only 45 seconds to use the launcher else the entire head has to be replaced. Something to do with the cooling systems I think. Not very reliable.


SA-7's aren't cooled.
 
2013-06-12 11:25:46 AM  

BigNumber12: I believe the article was on Pan Am 103, and discussed the likelihood that the passengers all passed out almost immediately after the bomb detonation, due to altitude effects. They woke back up, though, a handful of seconds before hitting the ground, thanks to the increased air thickness.

Just... chilling. Right up there with the sound that a 747 cockpit makes when all 4 engines go dead and the power and lights go out.

Made me absolutely rage at the bomber.


Which article?  103 was Lockerbie, no?  Fark that guy.  I'm not convinced Megrahi did it though.  A friend of my cousins lived there at the time and went out on her horse a few days after.  She went home again after she found a body in a hedge.  Hopefully they didn't have time to realise what was about to happen having been knocked out by the pressure drop.  Small mercies and all that.

What I meant was Air France flight 447 which crashed in to the Atlantic due to ice in the pitot tubes leading to a stall.  Apparently the aircraft was at 35,000ft and was falling at a rate of 10,000ft a minute, so 3.5 minutes to ponder your fate.  Gruesome.  And then, if by some miracle anyone survived the crash, it's the middle of the night in the southern Atlantic.  It makes me shudder.  It's less gruesome than Lockerbie and the various stories from there but it seems to touch that atavistic place in me.
 
2013-06-12 12:25:31 PM  

The Envoy: Which article? 103 was Lockerbie, no? Fark that guy. I'm not convinced Megrahi did it though. A friend of my cousins lived there at the time and went out on her horse a few days after. She went home again after she found a body in a hedge. Hopefully they didn't have time to realise what was about to happen having been knocked out by the pressure drop. Small mercies and all that.


Yep, that's the one. And my point was that analysts think that people started waking up before they hit the ground... just horrible.

The Envoy: What I meant was Air France flight 447 which crashed in to the Atlantic due to ice in the pitot tubes leading to a stall. Apparently the aircraft was at 35,000ft and was falling at a rate of 10,000ft a minute, so 3.5 minutes to ponder your fate. Gruesome. And then, if by some miracle anyone survived the crash, it's the middle of the night in the southern Atlantic. It makes me shudder. It's less gruesome than Lockerbie and the various stories from there but it seems to touch that atavistic place in me.


I read about that one as well. I have a nasty habit of reading about these things, particularly for someone who flies as much as I do.
 
2013-06-12 12:34:43 PM  

BigNumber12: just horrible.


You said it.  And with that it's time for the pub.
 
2013-06-12 04:34:43 PM  
Here comes the pre-flight prostate screening!
 
2013-06-12 07:41:43 PM  
That's what they used to take down the American Airlines plane back off NY in 2001, right?
 
2013-06-12 08:08:56 PM  

Deep Contact: August11: I think about dying in a plane crash all the time. I was on a few scary flights in the mid 1990s and that did away with my fearlessness.

I am flying to the UK next month. And I am thinking I would rather get taken down by one of these than human error/geese/weather events.

How would one of these blow up a plane? would it just destroy the engine? Or would it turn a whole A380 into a huge fireball?

What is the missile's ceiling?

I believe they are only good for a few miles if they are like the stinger.


3000 (1.86 miles) meters horizontal range, up to 1500 (.9 miles) meters altitude. So if the plane is nearing an airport it's in range.
 
2013-06-12 09:00:10 PM  

Alonjar: So what you're saying is... I should start using Emirates Air instead of Virgin from now on?


The Fundies don't like the Emirs any better than us infidel dogs.
 
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